Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Discover The Humanity of Homelessness, a podcast from Church at the Park that brings you honest, heartfelt conversations with people experiencing homelessness, community leaders, and staff.
John Marshall | 00:07
Welcome to the Humanity of Homelessness. I'm John Marshall, and this is a podcast from Church at the Park in Salem, Oregon. Since 2007, Church of the Park has created community with our neighbors living outside. And today we get to offer collaborative navigation, emergency sheltering, workforce development and supported housing for our neighbors in need. In each episode, we hear from a member of our community who is experiencing or has experienced homelessness. We invite them to share their story in their own words so that they and we might remember their goodness, their courage, their hope, and their humanity. You can find this podcast wherever podcasts are found. And it is helpful to us if you subscribe and share episodes that inspire you. Thanks to everyone for tuning in and joining us as we celebrate good news in the hardest, most unexpected places. Today's episode is a first for us. This is part two of a conversation with Sterling Cuneo. And after our first recording, Sterling reached out to share that he had some additional thoughts and wisdom. That he wanted to share. And of course, we set up the microphones back up to hit record. If you didn't get a chance to listen to that first episode with Sterling, I encourage you to go listen to it now. And if you have listened already, Welcome back.
You know you're in for a treat. But Sterling, welcome back to the table. How are you today?
Sterling Cunio | 01:26
I'm... I'm good, but...
You know, don't set the bar so high. I don't have additional wisdom. We were just talking. I'm a, I need, I wanted a second chance. I'm a second.
John Marshall | 01:39
Chancer. I humbly disagree. I do think that you have wisdom. And as someone who...
Sterling Cunio | 01:48
It does think highly of Well, what I was reflecting on, the reason I reached out is because, you know, So most people are surprised to find out that I'm actually an introvert and I actually do better.
John Marshall | 01:49
You.
Sterling Cunio | 02:01
Thinking things through when I have some time to myself. And I always know... The better thing to say after the chance to say it has passed. And when, We did that first interview. It was, you know, I was Russian. I'm still new to international basketball. You I was on my way to the airport to go to Costa Rica.
John Marshall | 02:24
Were literally on your way to the airport.
Sterling Cunio | 02:29
And you asked me a question about how people could get involved. I wanted to come back and, Spend a little more time talking about how people could get involved. I wanted to offer a little more about what I've learned Here at Church of the Park and the... The example and the good that it does, that it offers. And I feel like the best way to do that is to offer, you know, a personal testimony. And it just basically boiled down to, I feel like I could be more present and that, The interview is an opportunity to be more... Available and lean more into these conversations in Salem than what does involvement look like? Because one of the things that we have seen lately is an increase in volunteering. There's an increase across the country in people asking, how can I intervene on a whole host of issues that people want to become more active in. And, you know, and, When we were sitting here now and chris was that's who we need now we interviewed chris yes and we interviewed chris so please don't say yes and i missed the episode that'll be embarrassing if not i'm looking we'll.
John Marshall | 04:01
Get we'll get chris on the schedule chris is our media specialist who produces all these episodes.
Sterling Cunio | 04:15
Because if we feel like we have to do it all on our own and we're setting ourselves up for various levels of psychosis and impractical behavior. Goals, but when we come together as a community and in a community, and that is one of the things that I've always appreciated about the community of Salem. And I remember talking about having a very complicated relationship with Salem.
You know, it's one of them things like when I'm here, I want to be away from here. And when I'm away from here, I want to be here. Right.
You know, I miss it. And so it's, inviting people into that community and forming that community of people who are not only aware of The issues that they want to address, but are consciously and deliberately. Engaged in activity that develops that. And I know that sounds like a lot of words to say, but you know, when you have A group of dedicated to making something better. It gets better. And so I was like, man, well, why didn't we talk about, I go, there's, I've, I'm in conversation so frequently about ideas and possibilities that, you know, I even start, I'll be like, all right, do we have minimum, medium, maximum buy-ins? And as an individual looking to get involved in, you know, At what level? If it's at a minimum. Get involved in the community.
Yeah. What ways?
John Marshall | 05:59
Are the easy.
Sterling Cunio | 06:00
You know, get involved in the community. Learn somebody's story. A personal story is the easiest way. To bust most of the stigmas that surround us. Homelessness and people experiencing homelessness as we tried to highlight and profile and our myths of homelessness, right? How many stigmas? Get busted when you know We get to work with the people that we work.
John Marshall | 06:31
Yeah. It's hard to believe a lie or a myth when the literal opposite story is a human being in front of your face. Right in.
Sterling Cunio | 06:38
Front of you. You know, every day talk about dogs and clothes and, Music.
Yeah. You know, sitting around the fire, sharing a meal together. Asking how did you get up here? How did I end up here?
John Marshall | 06:53
Yeah. So the level one engagement for the person who's just looking for like the first entry into.
Sterling Cunio | 07:00
Volunteer, Tour You know, start having a conversation with your friends and families around tables about not about the issue in terms of who's right and who's wrong. But what can we do? To be a community in which we believe all people should have access to shelter if they want it. Right.
Well, what do we need to do as a group of friends to learn more about it? They can tour, they can go to events. That's minimal. Level. You just sharing donations, you know, like.
John Marshall | 07:43
Know? Yeah. And what you were this, move to go encounter story.
Like I can think of the person at a dinner table that I've shared recently, who's scared of the person who's standing on the street corner. So in that moment where I'm at the dinner table and I'm wanting to have this conversation about what does a more beautiful community look like. What's my response to that person? What's the encouragement? Go find the guy on the street corner and do what?
Sterling Cunio | 08:14
Well, I would say come one, come have a cup of coffee with us, right? That's the a very simple entry and then come to Poor. To spend time in places where we have Already. Developed a welcoming and safe space for So that, you know, I wouldn't just...
I mean, I do it all the time. I wouldn't say don't just walk up and talk to somebody because I do it all the time and those are how relationships are great. But if somebody is afraid of doing that, then they're probably not going to be comfortable doing that. And you ain't going to get people to stay committed too long to doing something that they're absolutely uncomfortable or afraid of. Right.
So within people's comfort zone, within what's, easy for people. There's a whole lot of people out here that are so comfortable that they could make things a whole lot better for somebody a lot less fortunate without a lot of great disease. Right.
So I'm not even saying it has to be some great sacrifice. So if you're uncomfortable or you're afraid of.
Something. Don't do it. There's plenty of other Halfways. Get in community.
Yeah, no.
John Marshall | 09:41
That line that there's plenty of pathways is is a significant one to me. Because it suggests that As you said, like the answer is, engaging doesn't have to be this huge sacrifice. It doesn't have to be this falling on my sword moment and entering into a place where I now feel unsafe. When in fact there are safe environments. And we at Church of the Park are trying to create those safe environments where new encounters can occur and new stories become encountered.
So I'm just grateful for that. I'm wondering then... Once someone takes the risk. To take a tour to get coffee with someone from church of the park or any other agency who's you know, on the front line, so to speak. And there's still this desire to do more. What's medium-level engagement.
Sterling Cunio | 10:39
Volunteer Right. I mean, it's now we're looking at your resources. What is easy for you? What is the outcome that you would be happy with? This is another factor that I advocate people to put into the equation.
Like what impact do you want to have from your service and would you be happy with that way? It can be sustainable and bring you joy because this is something.
You know, an important factor in overall happiness is that we, Thou you are joy. So that looks differently for different people. It could be you know, donation of resources. It could be Teaching and sharing of skills.
You know, there's, we've had various efforts. People, sometimes they stop by for a little bit.
Sometimes they hang out for a few weeks or months and we'll, share, gardening or, There's, you know, we're always talking. We're always introducing... Different seeds and different possibilities.
So bring your possibility as a seed... That one... Medium buy-in, is really going to be, these are going to be individual. Assessments, right?
Like only the person can know how much I'm about to be dedicated. How compelled do I feel?
You know.
John Marshall | 12:24
And sounds like the first question for the individual is just what do I have within me and what do I have available and what do I have access to that I'm willing then to extend as an offer of care and service.
Sterling Cunio | 12:34
Yeah. That, and yeah. That's easy and sustainable. And, you know, and at a minimum. Is get involved with the community that's supportive.
Right? Learn. About the issue. Education is a tremendous tool. Value right And then medium. Where can you? Make a contribution. Where can you be more open? Formally. Involved. How can you? What's the connections you can make? Who can you know? How can you raise awareness to these issues? And you start a study group.
You know, there's students there. At different universities, beginning study groups and beginning efforts to, you know, raise awareness about homelessness in their backyards. All right. And there's... Those are... Medium-level efforts get with people and do something.
John Marshall | 13:44
Yeah. This one feels like an introduction into building a, like, a layer of your life rhythm that includes service. Whereas it's not just like, I'm already at the dinner table, so let's have this conversation around this topic. Meal that we're having regardless. It's now What can I add into my calendar that takes me into a place that I'm not usually used spending my time Right. To do education for myself or with others or to... Just spend time in an environment that I don't call my own. To be of care to someone else.
Sterling Cunio | 14:21
Intention You know, be a little bit more intentional. About where you focus your time. Your energy, in your efforts. And if you want to do more. In a particular area then allocate more. Of your time, energy, and efforts. In that area, because where we spend our time, energy, and efforts reflects what we value. And if you want to... Hello.
Yeah, so that's...
John Marshall | 14:58
Yeah, I have a buddy who says, show me your calendar and I'll tell you what's important to you.
Sterling Cunio | 15:03
It's true. I think.
John Marshall | 15:08
I would agree.
Sterling Cunio | 15:10
And I mean, if it ain't or it's what we think is important. Because here's, you know, I was a hospice volunteer and it was the hospice and that got me into writing and wanted to tell the story which I shared about And you know, Most of the time when people got down to the end of this life and was looking at transitioning. It was all the focus then was always about relationship. It was always, they was always thinking about people They wished they had more time with... Or people they wish they would have did things differently with. Except one person.
You know, he talked about his motorcycle. All the way to the end. But he was definitely. The rarity, right? El Camino Tim. But. It's always about People. And I think that sometimes we can get so busy in our life and caught up in constructs.
And then those constructs become set ways of seeing things. And within those set ways of seeing things, we get into routines that become habits. And the next thing you know, you're hopeless. 30, 40 years have passed. And. Your sunsets are limited.
You know, the youth is gone. The kids have grown up.
So they're there. Yeah, there are things. Time is valuable.
John Marshall | 17:08
Yeah, so medium level engagement is Start building habits.
Sterling Cunio | 17:12
Start building habits that increase your involvement in the areas that you want to see improvement. And maximum level, just join the team and join the fight. Full time or the push division full time. If you have land, make it available. If you're a developer, make it available. If you're a healer, make yourself available.
You know, maximum is... You've...
You know, this is, There's plenty of ways. To get involved if you want maximum. You can get involved at any of our sites, any of our programs, any other agencies, and you start getting involved on the legislative side. Level.
John Marshall | 18:06
Yeah. Maximum. It's like, We're paying attention to the system engaging at a systems level to do something different that doesn't normally happen without someone saying, I'm going to do it.
Sterling Cunio | 18:11
Now. We're ready. And we're.
Right. Exactly. And... Sponsoring it, resourcing it, or be willing to do the grunt work because when we say maximum buy-in a lot of the time, we equate it to funds because we got bills, taxes, utilities, all this other stuff. But you can have somebody with empty pockets is burning. Pushing the line and they on fire and they 100% committed to it.
So, you know, to each person's gauge. Is going to be different But for those that want to actively get involved in immediately, you know, if this was.
You know, if we had to choose... You know, but you want to get involved at this level to where you're like, Hey, we want, what would a world without homelessness look like in 20 years? And that's the project I want to start working on for that person there. Man, we can, visioning dream circles we could get together to planning there's so much stuff it doesn't You know. The vision Sometimes. Most of the time is just as important as The stuff, it all goes together. I shouldn't say just as it all goes. There's a role for that too.
So maximum buy-in can be anything, that you ready to fully commit to. You know, again. Build a site.
You know, you start in the sea, different forms. Of land ownership Around the world and in America now to where people that couldn't afford land individually are now pulling together their resources. And having different forms of collective ownership.
Like there's different models for addressing homelessness in Salem. Church of the Park is a very unique model primarily I feel because of how it's embodied. We're addressing a social problem. Need. But we're doing it largely under DJ's leadership who's remarkable in his ability to lead from his principles and his ability to embody faith and still navigate the complexities of non- All this stuff. Right. The state, the city. And, So. We're already kind of doing things differently. As a city, as a state. We already got a model. That shows... Measurable and verifiable results in games. And Gelling that up. That scales up the solutions. Everything else.
So... The maximum we could from dreaming up an entirely new model the funding An entirely new model. 2 Organizing an entirely new model.
Yeah.
John Marshall | 22:01
If the solution to homelessness is literally homes. Yeah. Builders then the conversation we're having is about space and how space gets used. And so we, need people who have access to land. We need people who have materials to put on that land. We have people who can... Connect with the movers and shakers and decision makers around zoning and land use ordinances.
Sterling Cunio | 22:30
Self-parking. And safe parking one, two.
You know, that I think of, I got, How many people have their RV parked on a friend's property because they only using their RV during, I'm meeting a lot of them, you know, I'm full, I went full-time RV. So I'll be meeting all the weekenders, right? I'm like, where do you leave your RV the rest of the time? I got it over there at my cousin's or I got it.
Yeah. Right. And I was like, because I thought everybody had already left them in the storage room. If they wasn't in it, come to find out most people with an RV have it parked somewhere at their house or their own or something, right?
So, I mean, there's so many different Small, tiny homes.
John Marshall | 23:14
There's ways that we're already creative with how we use property.
Sterling Cunio | 23:17
Of course.
John Marshall | 23:20
Then, we can be creative about how we... Create opportunity for individuals who have none in their pocket.
Sterling Cunio | 23:28
I mean, with Maximum Buy-In, we could do anything.
John Marshall | 23:31
This is true. And to your point, we need the visionaries who actually dream up what could be, and then we need the people who actually have the skills and the resources who can make visions and dreams into reality.
Sterling Cunio | 23:44
Yeah. And one of our, one of the, organizing principles that we've been working with lately. They say all things start as poetry, but they have to end in real estate. Now, you know, I might not necessarily 100% agree with the binary there, but I do think It, The Vision is important. We have to envision a community that cares so much that people are not without safe places.
John Marshall | 24:16
Yeah, you have to believe that where you're headed is beautiful.
Sterling Cunio | 24:18
Absolutely. And then we got to go to work doing it.
Yeah, that was it. I didn't have really have a profound. I just wanted to give a better answer about how people can get involved because there's a whole community. There's countless ways. A person can get involved either with us, with others. Either, you know, I personally, publicly, Educate. Educate others, educate yourself.
You know so If there's something in there. We're slicing in. Go ahead.
Well.
John Marshall | 24:59
I appreciate it. Your desire to offer tangible, clear, articulate pathways for someone who's genuinely curious. Because I think It's easy to imagine a world where all things work the way they should.
And then it gets really hard to actually do the work of figuring out how to make that world possible. And... My experience with Church of the Park would suggest to me that the best education is just showing up. Is actually entering into a space that is different and foreign and allowing... The you The chaos, so to speak, or... Allowing the challenge to then be this refining of, sandpaper, That's... Both smooths away my own illusions about the world, but.. Allows more clear vision of what it takes to get to the world that we all want to belong in.
Sterling Cunio | 26:04
And I would.. Caution people to have realistic expectations. The outcomes of their involvement too, right? Because sometimes we think You know. We want to do too much too quick. In some ways.
And then that can be discouraging. And in this, I've been learning, you know, you, I can't, I think we've been in a lot of meetings where I've been like, well, we can't do that.
And then everybody that actually knows the process is like, because of this and like, damn, that's a lot, you know?
John Marshall | 26:46
This, and there's real challenge. I'm.
Sterling Cunio | 26:49
Totally. So sometimes, you know... Lost my point there. I forgot where I was going Be realistic with the expectations.
John Marshall | 26:57
With that. Be realistic with our expectations.
Sterling Cunio | 27:00
Sometimes, you know, it's, you know, this is not a new nor shallow problem that we're addressing. You know, you can jump in right away, but you know, don't put a, unrealistic expectation on And...
John Marshall | 27:19
Yourself. A few minutes ago you used the language of sustainability. Sustainability. And I think that's exactly the right word.
Sterling Cunio | 27:25
Don't never, ever... Underestimate the impact of one person. Neither.
So whereas I caution people, to be realistic. About the outcomes they can have I encourage people to believe in the impacts of they can make. Through tiny, consistent, sustainable actions. Outside of Thanksgiving. I'll sign a do it April 24th. 26.
Some random date, you know? Set a new custom, a new act.
John Marshall | 28:07
Tradition. Yeah, something that doesn't require a holiday. To encourage you to Yeah.
Sterling Cunio | 28:13
Yeah.
John Marshall | 28:15
All that's good wisdom. And you said you didn't have any wisdom.
Sterling Cunio | 28:18
I don't, man. I just wanted a different answer. I didn't want to just be like, do what you can. I wanted to be very, what you can is good, but there's, If there's somebody who wants to get involved, but they can't, think of a way to get involved get in touch with us and we will talk you through We will find ways like there's this, There is no... Shortage of opportunity. For people who want to help and do good. It's just about. Figuring out exactly Away. To do that in a way that makes them feel good and can be done over the long term.
John Marshall | 29:04
Word. Well, clearly the sands of Costa Rica provided Some depth of wisdom. And I'm just curious... Because you had shared what you were anticipating and looking forward to about that trip. Now that you have returned, what are you reflecting on as the goodness of your time there.
Sterling Cunio | 29:29
You know, for me, it was the rest. And it was the very first time. That I've ever felt like I was a part of the ecosystem. I spent a lot of time in nature. That's where I found my healing. But and I spent a lot of time in reverence. For nature. Redwoods, Grand Canyon. Right. And... But in Costa Rica, I felt like, honey, I shrunk the kids. And...
You know, you go to the Willamette National Forest. You see an elk far off or a deer, like you might see something out there. In the jungle. It is everywhere. And so it was, That was good.
You know, that was really good, but it was really in the, their proximity. To in The diversity of the ecosystem. That was profound for me. And... It was really rest. I went there. It was a great fellowship project projects, artists around the world that are using their to amplify various messages and how they do that. This one was a lot of communities that were dealing with, Force defense. And forest fires. There was just a lot of different Well, there wasn't a 20. Individual global projects where art was being used to amplify messages.
And then after that, it was just a week of rest. And I needed that.
You know, I needed that. Not profound. Just rest. But the rest was great.
John Marshall | 31:32
I was going to say, sometimes rest is the most profound experience that I know.
Sterling Cunio | 31:37
Man, I've. We say that as we're grinding out, right?
Like we say that as we're going to take a day off or like, all right, I'm going to take, I got three days off. I'm going to go do some radical rest.
And then, You know, this I'm catching up on things. And for me in particular, you know, I pushed for decades.
And then I finally achieved and then, I was graced. I shouldn't say I was achieved. I was granted an opportunity to come home. And when I came home, I just kept going. And I didn't. I didn't slow down. I didn't give myself time to recover. I didn't give myself time to celebrate. I didn't give myself time to dream new dreams. I didn't even give my time to really just settle in. To being in the middle of the dream that I'm in now. And remind myself that I get to live. The life that I hoped for. And... What had happened? Is I had become so , So, you know, Go.
Yeah, let's this. So many things was catching my attention, my interest. Everything's new. Tech, travel, foods, you know, people, dynamic, da. It was starting to burn me out. It was starting to burn me out. And I know. The signs. I know the literature. I know And so. What it did being In a whole other country. Without all my. Offers They require me to just rest. And I've been doing that this whole year. That was just kind of like a, And it was refreshing. I'm coming back. I'm ready. Next year is going to be cool.
John Marshall | 33:47
I'm glad you got that space and I can't.
Sterling Cunio | 33:50
Stop.
John Marshall | 33:52
Thinking of that description of rest as the vision of the world that I wish to live in and the world that I long for those at Church of the Park. To get to experience themselves, like the context. In which they get to stop hustling in survival mode.
Yeah. To take a breath. And be human again. And so I just find myself grateful. For you as a guide. To the rest of us. As someone who knows what it's like to grind for a long time.
And then to be graced. With space to call. Restful and I think that is the invitation that we are offering, that I hear you offering to anyone listening to this conversation is... We have neighbors who need rest.
Sterling Cunio | 34:53
Yeah. We have neighbors that need rest.
John Marshall | 34:57
And there are ways that we can offer that.
Sterling Cunio | 34:59
Yeah. Should I interview you?
Well, give me the intro script.
John Marshall | 35:04
No, that's for a different time. All Now, I just get to say thank you.
Sterling Cunio | 35:06
Right.
John Marshall | 35:11
And thank you to everyone else for listening and for being with us in this both the good places and the hard places to celebrate. .
At churchatthepark.org and there you can find opportunities to volunteer Subscribe to our newsletter and weekly liturgy reflections. And stay in the know about our current and future projects. We have an online portal for financial giving. And if you have questions for us or want to connect for a cup of coffee, we have lots of team members who would like to pay for your cup.
So email us at info at churchatthepark.org. Again, that's info, I-N-F-O. At churchatthepark.org. Thanks to all of you and thanks to Sterling. Until next time.