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The NYC Academic Solutions Podcast focuses on helping parents navigate New York City's complex education landscape by providing them with valuable information and real, actionable strategies for their children's success.
Hosted by Alexander Friedman, owner of Brooklyn Math Tutors, each episode zeroes in on a specific topic relevant to NYC education and features experts who provide practical advice and insights, empowering students to excel both academically and beyond.
Interested in being a guest or have a question for the host? Get in touch via email. We're here to help.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;26;14
Hello and welcome to the NYC Academic Solutions Podcast where we empower parents with actionable insights, practical advice and expert knowledge to help their students excel in education and beyond. I'm your host, Alexander Friedman, the owner of Brooklyn Math Tutors. In this podcast, we're committed to delivering valuable, noncommercial content by engaging in conversations with experts who will share their knowledge and experience to help NYC parents navigate the unique and complex world of education in the city.
00;00;29;19 - 00;00;48;04
Today we're addressing a critical issue in our post-COVID digitized world, the development of executive functioning skills in students, or rather, the lack of executive functioning skills in students. We'll explore the impact of COVID 19 and increased digitization and executive functioning skills, and discuss how parents can navigate this new landscape to set their children up for success.
00;00;48;07 - 00;01;08;00
Joining us in this conversation is Danielle Florio. Is that right? That's right. Co-Founder of City Smarts. With over 15 years of experience, Danielle has developed a holistic approach to education that emphasizes student confidence and wellness. She's an expert in middle and high school math, standardized tests and acts as the director of City Smart's Holistic Executive Functioning Coaching Program.
00;01;08;02 - 00;01;28;25
Danielle's mission is to demystify the educational journey for families, reduce anxiety and keep the process grounded. So without further ado, let's get started. Welcome to the podcast, Danielle. Amazing. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. Always a stimulating conversation with you. Thank you. Yeah. So before we get started, first of all, what is executive functioning? Okay. Great question.
00;01;28;26 - 00;02;01;03
So executive functioning, those skills are like your air traffic controller in your brain, right? So according to the Harvard Center on the Developing Child, executive function and self-regulation skills are the mental processes that enable us to plan, focus attention, remember instructions and juggle multiple tasks successfully. Just as an air traffic control system at a busy airport safely manages the arrivals and departures of many aircrafts on multiple runways, the brain needs this skill set to filter distractions, prioritize tasks, set and achieve goals, and control impulses.
00;02;01;10 - 00;02;28;27
So what happens when a student doesn't have it? What does that look like? When an adult doesn't have it, perhaps? That can look like a lot of different things. It can look like a constant state of overwhelm. It can look like someone who's forgetting things, someone who has trouble organizing themselves, meeting deadlines, you know, leaving the house at the right time to make it to, you know, whether it be school or a fun party that they're attending. All sorts of sort of life skills.
00;02;28;27 - 00;02;48;10
To be honest with you, it's a very holistic catch all term, but it really, really touches all aspects of our life. I see. So somebody who is like who knows, they have to do their homework and they want to do their homework, but they just don't think ahead and don't sort of plan it out. So they get it done on time and they find themselves like, Oh wait, I have like 10 hours of homework to do and like 20 minutes to do it.
00;02;48;15 - 00;03;15;26
Avoidant behavior is very real for humans and students who struggle with these skills. Yes, that's exactly right. I see. And this is something that people didn't really think about until very recently. It seems It's kind of become like a topic in the last maybe ten years. I would say that you're right about that. I think that it was always on the minds of educators and probably mental health professionals, but I think it's just become such a more crucial part of being a young person.
00;03;15;26 - 00;03;33;07
Being a person generally speaking. And I think, you know, we'll get into this, that the increased digital world that we're living in really lends itself to why it's such a hot topic in education. And just generally speaking, right now. I see. I feel like the way it used to be is that like some students just had executive functioning skills and others didn't.
00;03;33;07 - 00;04;05;28
And people just saw this like that's just how these people are. It wasn't something that people thought of as a skill that you can train. Right. Right. And listen, there is some truth to that, right? I mean, listen, we all have various innate or more natural strengths or weaknesses, right? And so some people maybe are a little bit more inclined to keep themselves organized or manage their time more easily. Or be able to think a couple days in ahead or a week or two ahead as a student to think about the tests, the projects, the assignments that are on the agenda.
00;04;05;28 - 00;04;32;12
And then sometimes there's other folks who do not have that baked into who they really are. And so there's a lot of learning that goes on through observation and a lot of modeling can help students who struggle or people who struggle with this. And I think that, again, in our increased digital world and being overstimulated quite a bit all the time, I think it can be harder for those skills to come in as naturally.
00;04;32;19 - 00;04;51;28
Mm hmm. I remember when I was a high school student, there were always the people who were like, incredibly on top of it. They had everything done on time, everything planned out. They had little planners and organizers, and I was not one of those people. And is that what executive functioning looks like? Yes, yes. But it's also not about. It's not a scale to measure.
00;04;51;28 - 00;05;18;21
Like if you're worthy or good enough, it's not really about that, right? I was one of those type-A people who, you know, was hyper organized and really on top of things. And quite frankly, it's a spectrum because getting too far on the side of perfectionism or overdoing it, self pressure, you know, a little bit too much in the way of almost feeling like manically obsessed with staying super organized, that can also be a detriment.
00;05;18;22 - 00;05;40;18
Right? So it's all about having systems and tools that work for each individual person or student. We're talking about students, obviously, but students are people and really identifying what tools can help to support you in those ways and cultivating your own routines. Because, you know, as we both know, tutoring business owners, what's going to work for one student may not work for the next student or the next student or the next one.
00;05;40;18 - 00;05;58;25
And so we really have to identify what works for the right kind of kid. The right kind of student. And trial and error can be a big part of this. Hmm. So it seems like having very underdeveloped, executive functioning skills a problem, but also having the opposite of being like too much, too planning can also be a problem, but in different ways.
00;05;58;28 - 00;06;14;29
Absolutely, because it can lead to anxiety. It can lead to overdoing the self pressure. It can lead to, you know, in my personal experience, someone who didn't really know how to rest. I didn't really know how to take my foot off the gas. I didn't really know how to just say, oh, I'm just going to space out this afternoon or read a book or do something leisurely.
00;06;14;29 - 00;06;31;08
I had a little bit of a little those who know me would say a lot of bit of an issue with feeling like I had to be productive all the time. And I think that there was something tied to a sense of worthiness being connected to productivity, which you know, we won't digress too much, but it's a balance.
00;06;31;08 - 00;06;52;10
It's a real balance. And I think that anyone can learn these skills, whether they come to you naturally or not, but it's just about being honest with yourself about who you are and what works for you versus your friend or your parent or your sibling. And so what's happened in your experience after COVID when everybody went online? How did this affect executive functioning skills and just students planning and skills in general?
00;06;52;12 - 00;07;14;16
I mean, listen, I'm not a fatalist. I'm not negative by nature. But I do think that because it was a need. Right? Students were literally patching into school on a screen and everything had to be digitized. Lesson plans needed to be turned into Google slideshows. Obviously, if students had access to physical textbook at home and they could get those textbooks in the throes of the pandemic, great.
00;07;14;16 - 00;07;35;25
But the reality is was born from a need. Everything had to go online. And I really think a big part of the issue can be a lack of accountability. And I think that, you know, if you're a child or a teenager at school, a lot of times student's priorities are that of their social life or fun or, you know, maybe they're not the most academically inclined.
00;07;35;25 - 00;07;52;04
And I'm not trying to stereotype, but when you know it's going to be on the portal or, oh, my teacher will post it later, you know, I'll space out for the last 3 minutes when my teacher rattles off the assignment or rattles off the details or a website where I can find a certain helpful tip or trick. Right?
00;07;52;04 - 00;08;17;13
And so I think that because students would say, Oh, well, it's online, I'll just figure it out later, you know, no big deal. I think that in some ways, okay, fine, sure. Maybe they just have it easier than we did. They don't have to jot it all down in a planner or physical notebook, right? But in other ways, if a child then spends 20 or 30 minutes navigating a portal in order just to identify a handful of assignments they have, it's not always the most efficient use of their time.
00;08;17;13 - 00;08;40;12
And I think that that lack of accountability because of the digital access is a big part of it. It also sounds like you're talking about people outsourcing their own planning to digital tools and processes like, well, it's on the portal, I'll figure it out later. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's exactly right. And I'm also not here to say, oh, you know, for hyper organized students, if they don't pay attention to every single moment of class, they're going to be up a creek.
00;08;40;12 - 00;08;57;25
That's really not true. It's a balance. Once again, it's a balance. But I do think that especially in the beginning, you no doubt saw this, especially when maybe the entire school wasn't on the same exact portal at a time, or maybe the whole school is on the same portal, but different teachers are using the same portal in different ways.
00;08;58;02 - 00;09;25;12
Oh, this teacher does it like that while this teacher does it like that. And you know, some teachers have lives. They’re people, too. They have children pretty often. They have families. They have, you know, personal responsibilities. And so if the teacher get sidetracked or something happens and they can't post the thing, the assignment in a timely manner or they get sidetracked, they have to go pick up a sick child or whatever happens, there seems to be more of a void that's wrong, where it's more of a space of excuses that can be made.
00;09;25;19 - 00;09;45;03
Oh, well, it's not up there. Oh, I didn't really understand or I didn't click to the right page. And I just think that there was like a more confusion and more inefficiencies came out of that for plenty of students. Not all, but for plenty. Yes. Seems like there's a lot more ways for things to go wrong, a lot more like little issues that can come up instead of just having, Well, here's my assignments.
00;09;45;03 - 00;10;00;18
It's on this page and I'm to do it on the next page. Like we did it in our time. Exactly. And listen, I mean, in when we were in the throes of the pandemic, students had to be online learning. Right? There were no other options for public schools, at least. Obviously, private schools are smaller and could manage things in a different way.
00;10;00;18 - 00;10;22;09
That was great. But we also have to deal with equity in this area. And, you know, not everybody's going to have a device at home and maybe for those that do, it's not the most reliable. Maybe the Internet access is spotty. There's a lot of different components to this. And again, thank goodness that you know, the deal was able to distribute devices to everyone who needed them.
00;10;22;09 - 00;10;45;01
But again, these are impediments to the processes for the, you know, student body at large. And one of the things you mentioned was that people are working on devices and we all know like how extremely distracting these devices are. Has that impacted kids? 100%. And that was my next point, actually. I mean, okay. So the reality is there is a billion dollar attention economy, right?
00;10;45;01 - 00;11;07;02
And so when I pick up my phone to look at an email, let's say that's what my intention is. I may find myself opening up, you know, spacing out a little bit. Opening up a social media app. Oh, a text message from my friend, you know. And so these devices in these platforms have all sorts of like fun, entertaining, dynamic, let's see tunnels for us to fall into, really. Holes for us to fall into.
00;11;07;02 - 00;11;22;15
And a student who may open their laptop with the intention of, okay, let me get out of Google Classroom, I'm going to check and see what my assignments are. I'm going to actually jotted down in a notebook. A discord notification may pop up or their friends are playing video games, you know, and it's like their friends are doing really well.
00;11;22;15 - 00;11;41;09
They really need their friend to hop into the game right now, live. In the live video game thing. I mean, by the way, it's super rad, but it's also just another attention hijacker. And so all of these distractions that are popping up on student devices, huge impediment. Huge impediment. As an adult, I have such a hard time like navigating this myself.
00;11;41;09 - 00;11;56;15
And from what I understand, executive functioning skills don't really fully develop at least a part of your brain, doesn't fully develop until your mid-twenties. And I am way past my mid-twenties and it's still hard to manage this. So how are students managing it? Like, how is anyone able to manage this? I mean, it's a really good question.
00;11;56;15 - 00;12;15;15
And of course there's not one size fits all answer to that. But I think, you know, listen, some students are... It’s really dependent on personality type and it's really dependent on, I think, family culture. You know, some families have restrictions on access to devices. That's sort of the ground rule from the beginning. Okay. Yes. You're going to get a laptop.
00;12;15;15 - 00;12;38;02
Okay, cool. You're going to be given a smartphone. But here's the deal before you're given these things. While others may be have had a device since they were very young. It's maybe not as appealing or enticing to them. The different personalities, I don't know if you saw the New York Times article about the Luddite Club that was launched in Murrow High School, but that was actually one of our students.
00;12;38;04 - 00;13;01;12
And so some students aren't as interested. But the reality is, for the most part, adults struggle with this as much as children, as you said right? And I am way beyond my mid twenties as well. And I, too, find myself, you know, addicted to the phone a little bit and having to work on that. And I think we need to remember that there are these big corporations that manage these apps and these devices.
00;13;01;17 - 00;13;30;11
They hire incredibly brilliant psychologists and they study human behavior and they literally document our eye movements and our expressions in order to throw things at us that are more likely to suck us in. And so I think, to be honest with you, some of the conversations we have around digital hygiene and screen addiction with parents and with students. Even with student, you know, we're not going to be doing gloom to kids who are too young but will say, Hey, do you know that there's a bunch of rich guys that are like making money off of you being addicted to this app or this phone?
00;13;30;11 - 00;13;50;15
Do you really want these people to be making tons of money off of your time? Is that really what you want? And I think if you can leverage those sophisticated conversations a little bit, even with students, they're more inclined to, number one, think it's hilarious that you're saying that number two, partner with you on identifying ways that they can, you know, create healthy restrictions.
00;13;50;18 - 00;14;07;08
So it sounds like you have to have some compassion. Understand that like executive functioning is hard for people of all ages. And it's extra hard when you're younger and don't have the skills. And at the same time, like you're probably much more sensitive and vulnerable to all the distractions. He also mentioned like the social distractions. All your friends are on here, Oh what did
00;14;07;08 - 00;14;24;16
my friend just posed. Yeah, and I think I'll just say this too. I think reminding students that parents and adults struggle with the same thing. It's not just them right? It's not that there's something wrong with them or it's not that like, you know, anyone wants to be super punitive. But I think the relatability like angle can be really helpful for kids, too.
00;14;24;18 - 00;14;46;13
So as a parent, like, what can I help my kids do? Like, how can I help them develop executive functioning skills in specific? Really good question. So, you know, I don't want to be the dead horse here, but modeling balanced, healthy boundaries with the digital devices, modeling that at home, I think also modeling healthy boundaries and balance with work life, right.
00;14;46;14 - 00;15;08;05
Like modeling taking time to rest, modeling not working till all hours of the evening. Now, obviously, depending on a parent's job or line of work or career, they're going to have to do that sometimes. But really modeling for the most part, a balanced manner of operating. I think that, you know, beyond that, the modeling and sort of learned through observation is setting the environment.
00;15;08;05 - 00;15;24;00
I think if families have the opportunity to allow their child to dedicate a certain part of the house or a little nook or even a desk in their rooms or in a family space that's dedicated to the homework or study space, that can be really helpful. I mean, even if it's the kitchen table.
00;15;24;00 - 00;15;51;03
And so therefore, that little study space needs to move for meals, get a little catty. So everything has a spot. It's all tucked in. Things don't get moved into one drawer or another. And I think also, if parents can help students again, if this is possible, create sort of fun and engaging environment, you know, if the child loves Marvel or Taylor Swift or something like get some goofy stickers, you know, like colors that they like if they're really into plants, like, you know, look at this.
00;15;51;03 - 00;16;13;16
I've got plants everywhere. That's something for me that helps make an a fun space and then identify some. You don't need to go overboard, but identify a handful of physical tools that will help keep us further away from the device. Obviously, notebooks, pencils, flashcards, a planner, a whiteboard, a corkboard. I don't mean to imply that everybody needs all of these things.
00;16;13;16 - 00;16;35;19
Again, it's about what works for some kiddos and what doesn't work for others, but I think some of those things can be helpful. Fun highlighters are great too. It sounds like you're talking about building habits to make it easy to do these things. I was reading this book. It's very popular. What was it, Atomic Habits? And he was saying that like, you know, you're not really going to be able to do all the things you want to do by like force of will just because you decide to.
00;16;35;19 - 00;16;52;16
Instead, you should be like creating an environment to make things so it doesn't require much thinking. And that's what it sounds like you're talking about. But to help your kids do this because they don't know how to create appropriate environments for themselves, that's kind of your job. That's exactly right. And I think my husband refers to that as getting into flow state, right?
00;16;52;17 - 00;17;15;19
And removing as many impediments as are there to get locked right in. And get right into the zone, so to speak. Get into the zone. And again, you know I know I'm going to keep saying this all sound like a slate broken record. But if we're at the study space, the phone goes away. Like phone jail or a device jail or yes. They're going to need that darn computer probably to get some homework done or check the portal.
00;17;15;26 - 00;17;31;11
I get that. But try to remove some of that stuff. Or try to lock certain apps or certain things that are on that device for the hours that the students expected to do homework. Things like that can be helpful. One of the things we discussed in the beginning is that back in our time, this is probably the same for you
00;17;31;11 - 00;17;47;10
but tell me if I wasn't, we didn't really think of executive functioning. First of all, we didn't recognize it as a real thing. We just think, oh, this kid is smart and on top of it and this other kid is lazy and disorganized. We do have to acknowledge that some people are naturally more organized. You know, there's like the five personality type.
00;17;47;10 - 00;18;03;23
Some people are more conscientious, some people are less conscientious. But now that we know that some of these you know, these traits aren't totally fixed and you can improve your executive function skills and that kids are aware of this as well. What can parents do to encourage that mindset or encourage that growth? So kids can think, oh, yeah, I can get better at
00;18;03;24 - 00;18;19;28
this. I don't have to be a disorganized, messy person. I'm talking about myself here, of course. No way. This is great. I completely agree. I mean, I think that there's a lot of ways to talk about it. I think using sensitive language. I'm not implying that parents need to coddle their children, especially if they're teenagers.
00;18;20;04 - 00;18;40;19
But using language of relatability. Oh, I remember when I transitioned from middle school to high school, man, was it overwhelming? Like, I remember I had this really challenging English teacher and I felt really overwhelmed. Trying to use relatable language in storytelling. If that's authentic to you. And remind your student that, like, you once struggle with this too. If the students well, whether or not they're an athlete, right?
00;18;40;22 - 00;19;00;07
Let's say hypothetically, explain to the student, you know, Derek Jeter didn't walk on to the baseball field just like knocking them out of the park. You know, I don't really know sports that well. I'm trying with this sports metaphor, but it's a muscle, right? Executive functioning is a skill that you will develop. Olympic athletes do not just like come out of the womb and just immediately start running around a track.
00;19;00;07 - 00;19;19;15
You have to practice and you have to be challenged. And you have to be willing to deal with discomfort and some challenging, doing some things that like maybe aren't your favorite, some things that suck for a little while to figure out. Like, okay, so I tried these three things that are a pain in the neck that my parent or coach wanted me to try and, you know, I really hated them.
00;19;19;15 - 00;19;41;14
But honestly, two of them really worked. Or one of them really worked. Okay, let me keep going down that thread, chasing that thread and trying to identify more. So I think, yeah, just leveling with them and reminding them that there's nothing wrong with them if they're struggling with it. I think that student I mean, I think people, humans, we internalize a lot of shame and a lot of self-doubt and instead of saying, you know what, Mom, I am feeling really bad about it.
00;19;41;14 - 00;19;58;19
The teenager will just act super surly. I don't care about school. I don't care. Right. And very rarely does a child not care about school. Well, once in a while, sure. Okay, fine. But it's not common. It's usually that there's something else going on beneath the surface. They feel maybe crappy or they feel like, Oh, wow, they're older sibling
00;19;58;19 - 00;20;14;10
just like, had it together. And didn't seem like they really made an effort and just all fell into place. Or their best friend or their peers. Right? So I think the comparison trap happens whether or not parents know it. And so just reminding them there's nothing wrong with you, like you're still just as valuable. I'm not going to think any less of you.
00;20;14;10 - 00;20;48;16
But let's be honest. Let's try and cultivate some new skills and let's talk about what you think could work. You mentioned athletics. What role does like general health and fitness play in executive functioning? I can't speak to that from a scientific perspective, right. But I think that getting outside and playing, running around, blowing off steam, we know that the happy chemicals course through our body and through our brain more readily when we're doing things like that. Doesn't mean that every kid again wants to be a track star or every kid wants to join the soccer team.
00;20;48;16 - 00;21;05;25
That's totally fine. But I think, you know, encouraging your child, your students to get outside and to go to the park. And to go catch that lecture that's going on around the corner outside. Or go out and soak in the sun and get the vitamin D. And if they're not an athlete, meet their friends outside.
00;21;05;28 - 00;21;28;25
I mean, you know, I live in New York City, so there's tons and tons of things to do. There's lots of community oriented events happening all the time. There's lots of rec centers, there's lots of little band shells like all over the place in New York City, you know, even the smallest of parks. And so I do think that generally speaking, from a wellness perspective, we know that getting outside and moving your body around helps.
00;21;28;27 - 00;21;45;24
And I think what I say to students is change your energy. If you're in a funk or you're feeling shitty about, you know, being overwhelmed at school. Or you're grumpy, you know, change your energy. Get outside, change your environment. Put on some music, dance around. If you love some ice cream and it's in the freezer, have a bowl of it.
00;21;45;24 - 00;22;02;01
Like do something to change up the energy. And that can be a big part of it. I think physical activities are very much related to that. It seems like if you don't do any physical activity doing even like immediate amount and getting into some kind of sport. You don’t have to be good at it, right? But like just doing something is much, much better than doing nothing.
00;22;02;01 - 00;22;19;10
You don't have to be like at the other extreme where you're like, Oh my God, I have to be the best track star ever or the best swimmer. Because that also is, you know, a road to burnout for a lot of people. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, it doesn't have to be competitive. Like, you know, there are rock climbing gyms and I mean, there's everything under the sun that you can try.
00;22;19;10 - 00;22;48;17
And again, there are plenty kids who may not be particularly sporty or they may not be interested in athleticism. So maybe they're really into music, maybe they're really into art. Maybe they're really into pottery and making, you know, making sculptures. Maybe they're really into. There's lots of kids, obviously, that are into electronics or like learning about those type of things. Reading a book. You know, going outside and reading a book, just doing something to, you know, get yourself out of your element a little bit and challenge yourself, I think can be really healthy.
00;22;48;22 - 00;23;04;23
It It sounds like one of the things you’re talking about is sort of developing self-discipline for doing things that are new or things that you're not really good at but you want to improve. How do parents encourage their kids to sort of take ownership of their education if it's not something they're particularly interested in and develop some discipline? That's a really good question.
00;23;04;29 - 00;23;37;10
Unknown
You know, I think, again, just reminding a student, you know. Number one, always reminding a student reflecting to them, that they’re student. And so that's sort of their job in some ways. But they're a person, right? So they have so much more to who they are. Interests, curiosities, passions, likes, dislikes, whatever. But this is something that if they're willing to authentically, you know, be honest with themselves and accept themselves for who they are and meet themselves where they are and just be open to cultivating new tools that can help them for so many things beyond school.
00;23;37;10 - 00;23;48;27
And I say this to students a lot and you know, they would roll their eyes and laugh because I'm super goofy with students. And a lot of our coaches that work in this capacity will say, listen, I get it, I get it. Math is not your favorite. I don't get it doesn't have to be your favorite.
00;23;48;29 - 00;24;00;25
You can hate math for the rest of your life. I'm going to help you just get through it because there are going to be some things in life that you just have to get through. We all have responsibilities. And I'll say to them, I run a business. I love what I do. I love this time with you.
00;24;00;25 - 00;24;22;26
Do you think I want to be dealing with, like billing and invoicing? Do you think I want to be dealing with like a ton of aspects of running the business there? There's plenty of it that's hard. I don't really like it, but I've trained myself and I've cultivated the tools to deal with some of the things that I don't love through my experience in school, through my experience in college. And further I'll say, you know, someday you're going to have a crummy boss.
00;24;22;27 - 00;24;40;17
Someday you're going to have like a, you know, a challenging coworker. And so you're, you know. And again, they laugh because they're just like, how is this trig lesson at all related to what you're saying? And I just say, like, you're going to have to deal with things that are hard. And this trig lesson is that thing right now, and we're going to just figure out a way for you to get through it.
00;24;40;20 - 00;24;59;05
Unknown
You don't have to like it. And we really needed to get a little bit more comfortable being uncomfortable. And that's another conversation that we have with students. And again, not to say like life is full of trials and horrors, but just for them to understand. Llike, yeah, it's going to be a lot of both. It's not always going to be gumdrops and roses all the time.
00;24;59;07 - 00;25;10;28
Yeah, despite what you end up doing in life, even if you end up being your own boss, there's still always things that you don't want to do that you have to do and you have to do them well. Like, you know, fine. You know, you don't want to be an employee. You can be a business owner. But guess what?
00;25;10;28 - 00;25;30;13
You have to deal with clients. You have to deal with taxes. If you make any money, you have to deal with taxes and like, you just can't get away from it. And I've had similar conversations with students. Funny enough, also about Trig. I think that's like the subject that everyone gets hung up on because it's not a particularly like relevant to life, math subject.
00;25;30;13 - 00;25;44;25
And I would say something very similar, which was like, well, you don't have to be good at this, but like, let's find a way to make this non-terrible and like face this as a challenge and this is a skill you'll use later when you have to face challenges that, you know, inadvertently come along. You just can't escape them.
00;25;44;27 - 00;26;09;14
You mentioned you have coaches. Can you tell me a bit about your like executive function coaching program? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. It's a very amorphous, flexible program in that not every student is the same. No two students are the same. And so the crux of how we work and this is not rocket science, is we meet students where they are and we build a relationship of trust and we develop a rapport with them.
00;26;09;21 - 00;26;27;05
So I have an example. We had a student who started with us, I'd say two and a half months before the end of the school year, and really struggling with executive functioning. Not really struggling so much in school. Like the grades were fine, the parents weren't super worried about it. But just notice that there's a lot of avoidant behavior. There's a lot of disorganization.
00;26;27;07 - 00;26;44;29
My child's going to a specialized high school in the fall. I'm a little concerned that they're not, you know, pushing themselves to develop tools. And so I paired them. Number one, you really want to be mindful of the students personality disposition and pair them with the right coach. Right. Like match those personalities. Sometimes the same or similar personalities will be appropriate.
00;26;44;29 - 00;27;04;11
Sometimes different personalities will be appropriate. It just depends. And from there, allow the coach to have some space and flexibility to again develop the rapport and to get a buy in. This child in particular really didn't want anything to do with this work at first. And in true to form, what we found out was they felt ashamed.
00;27;04;11 - 00;27;22;02
They felt that it meant they were stupid. They felt that it meant that like they're not smart enough and they can't do it on their own. And mom and dad think they need help. Right. And that's not what it was about. This child is an incredibly talented artist, for example. And does quite well in certain aspects, but was really struggling with those, you know, logistical life skills.
00;27;22;02 - 00;27;41;25
And the family was really understanding that they were going to need to give the coach and the student some real space to develop a relationship. They talked about art, they talked about cinema, they talked about literature. They, I think, made some mood boards. Literally. I'm not kidding you, like on Google Docs. They did some fun, creative things.
00;27;41;27 - 00;27;57;24
And by the third lesson, the coach was able to like weasel a little bit of like what's going on in school. Because now, the student’s like, oh, this person's pretty cool. They're not, you know, like cracking the whip and they're not being punitive and they're not making me feel bad. They're actually really like, they really want the best for me.
00;27;57;24 - 00;28;14;16
And so if you can develop that relationship with a student, that's the buy in. And again, leveling with the student, you know, reminding them like you're not going to lower the stakes from an expectations perspective all the time with parents, but trying to lower the stakes for the student. Yeah, you don't have to like math. You don't have to love science.
00;28;14;16 - 00;28;40;01
It's cool. But I'm going to help you develop tools to get through it because you still have four or five more years of this until you're done with high school. We try not to get too existential with kids, but we know graduating high school and if they feel so inclined, moving on to college will very likely put them in a different category of being able to support themselves and move into the world, you know, in a more stable way.
00;28;40;01 - 00;29;03;25
And certainly there are plenty of ways that students and young people can move into adulthood without going to college necessarily. But if that seems to be the path, we're trying to encourage them and think about the big picture overall, like what sort of results have you seen? And it doesn't lead to specific, but, you know, I've seen a lot of results that we're doing math tutoring and it's kind of a very narrow area.
00;29;03;25 - 00;29;20;10
Unknown
But I've seen like people's confidence improve. When you're doing executive functioning coaching, it sounds like much more general holistic. What sort of results do you guys end up seeing over, you know, the span of working with your students? Yeah, absolutely. Great question. I think you know, depending on where the child is when we start working with them, right. We're looking to improve.
00;29;20;10 - 00;29;36;21
I think sometimes setting goals that are a little bit too ambitious, that can be intimidating. And so we want to temper where they are versus where we want to go. And another part of how we start is talking to the student. Okay, we talk to mom and dad or we talk to the parents, rather, and we have a sense of what their goals are.
00;29;36;21 - 00;29;51;01
And we'll say to the student in lesson, what do you want out of this? You know, I know that this is like the least favorite part of your week. You'd much rather be, you know, outside with your friends or, you know, on Discord or whatever it may be. Since I'm here, what do you want out of it?
00;29;51;01 - 00;30;07;28
Well, I'd like to feel less anxious about not getting my work done. I'd like to feel less overwhelmed. I'd like to feel like when I sit down, I'm not, like, really disorganized and sort of I don't know where to start. Or oh, you know, this happens quite a bit with students - I'm not sure how to study, you know, I'm not really sure how to do that.
00;30;07;28 - 00;30;24;27
But I’m like trying and reading the textbook. Or I'm reading the slide show and it's not sticking. So whatever it may be, we create small steps and milestones. Okay, well, we need to cultivate some steady skills. Well, let's try. First of all, how do you feel about note taking while you're in class? What do you mean note taking?
00;30;24;27 - 00;30;40;08
Oh, you want to get out your notebook for math class? What notebook? Right. So sometimes you find that there isn't a notebook. Or if there is a notebook, there isn't really a skill set yet for taking notes. And, you know, listen, there are some students who have motor skill issues. And so that might be something that we're going to start with.
00;30;40;08 - 00;30;57;21
But we may say, Hey, if your teacher will allow you to record things during the class, we'll find a way to sneak in there. And so to be honest with you, it's a really broad spectrum of goals. So we're going to work on organization, we’re going to work on time management. We're going to work on making sure students complete their assignments and turn them in on time.
00;30;57;27 - 00;31;16;03
We're going to work on planning ahead. Doesn't mean a second grader needs to be planning ahead for weeks. But an 11th grader probably does. Don't tell me you're going to study for a chemistry test on a Thursday when your boyfriend's having a party and we all know you're going to be there, right? So let's talk about who you are as a person, as well as what your schedule looks like.
00;31;16;05 - 00;31;36;26
We're going to work on study skills. Whatever that looks like, depending on what works for the student, sometimes physical, handwritten flashcards. Again, learning how to take notes, figuring out a routine in time. A little bit of maybe a student can't sit for 2 hours and do homework and study. Maybe they need to do 30 minute increments, take a ten minute break, a 40 minute increment, take a ten minute break.
00;31;36;26 - 00;31;57;10
So we do a lot of trial and error. And depending on where the strengths and weaknesses lie, we may talk to students about their sleep or screen hygiene. We may talk to students about balance and rest. You know, we'll have parents, you know, pulling on the shirt of our coach on the way out, like, hey, this student, like, I can't get them to clean up their room and like, their homework is always, you know.
00;31;57;10 - 00;32;18;19
So could you work on this next time, right. So we will try and take as much as we can that's been shared with us and approach it in a way where we know we have a receptive audience, if that makes sense. You mentioned that like, you know, you have a conversation with a parent and a parent may have a certain set of goals, but those goals may not be at least initially shared by the student.
00;32;18;21 - 00;32;37;01
How important is it to just like open communication between the parent and the student about what the parents actually want from the student? That's a really good question. And again, that's a hard one to answer because it sort of depends. It doesn't mean that we're hiding anything from one party or the other. But, you know, some parents are anxious about this.
00;32;37;01 - 00;32;54;19
Unknown
Some parents are feeling a lot of stress about the fact that their child is, you know, suddenly their grades have declined. And, you know, the child you know, and I don't mean to keep talking about teenagers, but this is the thing with teenagers. They're in that age where they don't want their parent breathing down their neck or giving them tons of advice.
00;32;54;19 - 00;33;18;00
And in fact, if their parent gives them particular advice, they're going to do the opposite, you know, on purpose, because they don't want to be told what to do. And so sometimes we just have to be mindful of navigating those tensions or frictions. And again, leveling with the student and having that kind of language with them where you're like, hey, listen, I know what your folks would love out of this, and I'm going to do my darndest to like, really make everything happen.
00;33;18;00 - 00;33;40;28
But what do you want out of this? How can I help you? Another and with students, especially teenagers, is very motivating is - do you really want your parents breathing down your neck like this? Do you really want this? Because you do have a choice. And I don't mean to say that we're like, again, being punitive about their lack thereof or their abilities, but hey, we can figure this out, I promise you.
00;33;40;28 - 00;33;56;19
Like, just work with me. I've got you. We can get this to a place where you're doing the best you can. As long as your parents see that you're doing the best you can and they don't have to be nagging you about, you know, various goals or various things that are falling through the cracks. This is going to be so much less stressful for you.
00;33;56;19 - 00;34;19;10
Wouldn't it be nice to come home and just like, chat with your parents about the basketball game instead of all these other things that they're on your behind about? And so we try to take that angle as well. We talk a lot about devices. What advice like what general advice to for parents who are like very overwhelmed about what to do with their kids and devices and how much these devices are affecting their executive functioning and life skills?
00;34;19;12 - 00;34;37;15
I think restrictions and healthy boundaries. I really do. I really think that's super important. Again, modeling healthy boundaries for your child, not being on your phone all the time. I remember having a meeting with a family whose student was working with us. Executive function really just turned around massively in the last few months, which has been amazing to see.
00;34;37;15 - 00;34;53;17
But I had a meeting with the family and it was shared with me on the phone. A lot of issues were at play. Student was at a very, very demanding high school, but student was really on their phone all the time, really addicted to the device. And throughout the entire meeting, the parent was staring at their phone while having a meeting with me in front of their child.
00;34;53;17 - 00;35;12;16
And I was like, okay. And I just was like, okay, this is going to be a really hard one because there doesn't really seem to be a culture in the family of awareness around this. And so if this is being shown to them that we can just have meetings with people while also staring at a phone the whole time.
00;35;12;16 - 00;35;33;01
Unknown
That might not be the best way to convey to your child that they shouldn't be doing that. I think also calling the student in. And so again, when we are noticing an overuse of the phone or the device asking them, what do you think? Can we talk about this together? Let's come up with restrictions together. Instead of being like, this is the way it's going to be and this is how it is. I mean, sometimes parents have to do that.
00;35;33;01 - 00;35;43;25
But I think if you can call the child in and be like, what would you do if you were me? Like, you're not getting your homework done. And you know, I needed you to do X, Y, Z chore and I need you to pitch in a little bit around here and this is what's happening. What would you do?
00;35;43;25 - 00;36;06;12
And I think that a lot of times if you can talk to a student as an adult, they're a lot more receptive. And again, maybe before the smartphones are in hand, families talk about and develop collaboratively, develop guidelines and restrictions about, okay, you're going to get a smartphone, but like we really need to decide how this is going to be because we don't want you walking around like an iPhone zombie, right?
00;36;06;12 - 00;36;24;02
Like it's a real thing. How aware are kids that they are addicted? I think like ten years ago when we first started with these things were like, Oh my God. And I think it took us a while to realize we're really addicted these devices, but I feel like modern kids are more aware of this than we were.
00;36;24;02 - 00;36;48;07
What's your take? I completely agree. I really do. I really do. And I've even seen some interviews with kids online where they're like, you know, it's such a bummer. I'll go and get together with my friends and we'll be at a diner and like everybody's on their phones. You know that they're noticing this, right? They want to interact with their friends IRL, hangs are a lot more fun and enriching than just through a screen.
00;36;48;09 - 00;37;06;24
And I think that there's a lot more awareness because there's a lot more of a conversation about it, you know, whether it be news, podcasts, you know, sort of PSA posts. And I'd also say that sorry to double back to this, but there is a really, really informative documentary on Netflix. I don't know if it was developed by Netflix.
00;37;06;24 - 00;37;25;02
Doesn't matter. The Social Dilemma. And it was released, I think, in the early pandemic. I want to say it was like just before the pandemic or 2020. And it's all about the attention economy and how these, you know, devices designed to hijack as much of our attention as possible and to keep us engaged and to keep us coming back.
00;37;25;04 - 00;37;49;13
And I think that as long as you're not dealing with a super small child who, you know, it's not really a frightening documentary at all. It's just pretty direct and pretty honest. They actually interview a lot of ex tech folks and the folks who coded this in mental health professionals that were hired by these corporations. And so it's really interesting for humans of all ages, but especially students, to just intake the reality of what's going on.
00;37;49;13 - 00;38;05;16
And again, a lot of kids do have a rebellious streak. So if you're like, yeah, again, do you want a bunch of wealthy cronies just hijacking your brain all the time? I don't think so. I don't know. So sometimes that can get them a little bit fired up and really thinking about the deeper issues at work. I mean, students are really smart.
00;38;05;17 - 00;38;28;13
Children are really smart. You mentioned a movie. Do you have any other resources you might recommend for parents who are who want to learn more about executive functioning and especially how it relates to our digital world now? I do, I do. And I'm going to read a few things because I didn't want to flub this here. But okay, So the Harvard Center for Developing Minds, they have an activities guide and it's called Enhancing and Practicing executive function skills.
00;38;28;13 - 00;38;54;07
It's a really amazing read. Can be super helpful for families who have children who are neurodivergent or they suspect their child might be neurodivergent. Or their child is just displaying behaviors of attentional issues. Additudemag, it's a-d-d-i-t-u-d-e mag, has amazing articles and resources explaining and unpacking the way the brain works from a scientific and biological perspective.
00;38;54;07 - 00;39;20;13
Because sometimes just yeah, understanding what's going on and why can really help families support their children. And they have a really phenomenal podcast called the ADHD Expert Podcast. And again, if a parent, whether or not they've ever had their child given an evaluation, if they're just struggling to identify what the right tools are, this podcast could be helpful for families, even if their children are not neurodivergent. The Social Dilemma documentary, I think
00;39;20;15 - 00;39;57;01
it's a family-friendly movie that everybody should watch. I cannot tell you how many students I've made watch the documentary. And pathwaystosuccess.com has like some really cool activities but they're for younger kids so it just will depend on who's listing and who's going to look at that website. But like boardgames and card games and memory games, things like that can help tactile things can help students with executive function. And games that encourage and allow students to think about planning from like a fun perspective, in a playful environment versus like, okay, you actually have a bunch of stuff you need to
00;39;57;01 - 00;40;14;17
get done and I'm going to stress you out about it. That can be helpful as well. Great. All right. So before we go, can you tell us where people can find you if they want to work with you? Yes. Our website is citysmarts.net. That is the best way to reach us. Our phone number’s on there, there's an email function
00;40;14;17 - 00;40;31;19
you can contact us right away. There's a lot on the website in terms of like the services that we offer and the kind of company that we are, our philosophy and our approach. We also have Instagram and Facebook. Our Instagram is at City Smarts and our Facebook is just city smarts and it's easy to find us there. We have a LinkedIn.
00;40;31;19 - 00;40;40;23
If anyone's doing that, I don't know. I'm just learning LinkedIn. So that's there as well. Yeah. Okay. All right, Danielle, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Thank you for having me.
00;40;40;23 - 00;41;17;07
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