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We're in labor this week screaming and pushing our way through season 1 episode 6 of Dawson's Creek: Baby, also known as Look Who's Talking.
A Dawson's Creek Rewatch Podcast for those who missed the boat!
Freaks & Creeks: a Dawson's Creek Podcast dives into each episode of the hit '90s TV show Dawson's Creek with a fresh perspective. Join Cody, Stella, Mal and James as they set sail through turbulent waters determined to understand this iconic teen drama’s place in the modern television zeitgeist.
Cody: Welcome to, uh, freaks and Creeks, uh, Dawson's Creek podcast. The show where four millennials who missed about 25 years ago take the dive for the first time. Join us as we experience the series with a fresh perspective week to week and see if our adolescent experiences match up with Dawson and the gang. My name is Cody.
Stella: I'm Stella.
Mallory: I'm Mallory.
James: And I am James. And this week we are talking about season one, episode six, Baby. This episode aired on February 24, 1998. And in this episode, Capeside is abuzz with rumors of a teacher's indiscretion. Rumors that could prove fateful for Pacey. And tomorrow, pacey then takes it upon himself to go before a school board hearing to admit to personally fabricating the rumors to clear tomorrow. Meanwhile, Joey and Jen get a life lesson when Bessie is aided by an unlikely source, graham's Ryan, when she goes into labor and gives birth to her baby in Dawson's living room with Dawson videotaping the whole thing. Uh, this was written by Kevin Williamson and John Harmon Feldman. Feldman. Excuse me. And it was directed by Steve Minor. And what an episode it was. I think I have like, 35 audio clips so we're not going to hear all of them today, but this was just full of all sorts of fun stuff. What did you guys think about your watch?
Stella: I really liked this episode. Um, I thought it was really solid. Um, obviously there was like, a lot of scenes, uh, and they all felt very quick. Um, but I kind of liked it. It felt like a good pacing, just moved the story along. There was a lot happening and I felt good about it.
James: Yeah, I think this is the most scenes we've had in an episode so far. Five scenes. Yeah, it's wild. And you're right, it felt like some of the scenes were just like, okay, here's 3 seconds of something happening and then we're going to cut away. It felt punchy, um, in a way that I don't think other episodes have felt to me. But I enjoyed it. I thought it was fun. Got, um, some good vampire world building. I'm excited to share this with you. I've got some pretty compelling evidence, um, to present and I think everybody will be convinced at this point. There's no denying it. After what you're about to hear in a few short minutes, I'm just really.
Cody: Looking forward to hearing what that is because the Lord's Prayer, I mean, that sticks out to me is clear evidence that they were putting, uh, maybe, uh, like a shield of God's love around the house to keep the vampires away. Maybe, uh.
James: Okay, let's talk about this really quick.
Cody: Really quick. I want to go on for hours.
James: I was so disappointed when we got to that scene. Uh, and Graham has them do the Lord's Prayer as Bessie is giving birth. I was just jaw, uh, on the floor, confused. That um, after everything we've had with Jen and her stance on religion and even what we see in this episode, to then have that, it just felt like so heavy handed and just out of place.
Mallory: Yeah, I definitely enjoyed this episode except for I could have done without Graham's pushing the religion on everyone.
Cody: Did you know that this is a, uh, focus on the Family Christian program?
James: That's what I'm starting to see here. I think it kind of also seemed.
Mallory: Like Dawson took a little bit of a backseat in this episode. He offered some advice to lots of good advice, but he was kind of in the background as far as plot lines went.
Cody: Yeah, you know what I've been thinking about because uh, for me this is probably my favorite episode so far this season and now it didn't even click with me yet. That it's probably because Dawson is in the least.
James: Yeah, that's a good point.
Mallory: Yeah. Another thing I noticed before, it's kind of about the first scene, but I want to talk about it before we get into the first scene is that, uh, I went back and looked at the beginning of each episode up to this episode. Episode six. Every single episode has started with Joey and Dawson watching something in his bedroom. Uh, so I kind of wonder if that's going to continue or that feels like the end of what will get into the first scene of what happened in the first scene is like the end of them watching something together.
Stella: Mhm.
Cody: Yeah, I think it's like they use that as a really good, it establishes all the plot points that they are going to hit in that episode. But it's like a really good way to introduce, uh, just like the show. It's like every cold open is going to be in the room and it's going to be them almost very uh, it's all on the nose. We're going to talk exactly what this episode is going to be about.
James: Interesting, when Mal kind of mentioned this to me, I thought about it and every movie that they have watched in this cold open generally has um, some kind of importance to the plot. Like you're saying, like it's not just what they're talking about or the way that they're setting up the scene, but the movie itself will be referential to the plot of the episode. Did anybody catch what movie they were watching in the first scene?
Mallory: That's why I wonder if you can't really tell what they're watching, all you see is the end. So I kind of wonder if that signifies something because in the scene it's kind of like which one is he going to pick? Is it the end of Joey and his friendship where they get to have these movie nights together? Mhm.
James: Interesting. We'll have to track that moving forward but so far we're hitting six for six with episodes starting with a movie. So that's cool. I like that. That's fun.
Cody: Taking a step back also from we've talked at length about how problematic, uh, the Tamara Pacey storyline is so I don't really want to get into that any further. But taking a step back and looking at all of the beats that these characters are hitting, I felt extremely satisfied by this episode on where things ended up with people, how relationships were built and then torn apart and without the specifics of what those relationships are, uh, I felt very satisfied from a character narrative arc.
James: Yeah, I thought it was a great episode. Yeah, it's true. There was quite a bit of development here. Um, does anybody have any thoughts before we actually jump any more thoughts? I should say before we jump in? Feel like a good time to transition into the scene by scene.
Stella: Let's dive in.
James: Sweet.
Cody: Well, the teaser for Baby has Jen and Joey over at Dawson's for movie night. As the first film finishes, Joey and Jen express the awkwardness of it all. Joey is invibing with Dawson and Jen and Jen doesn't like encroaching on, uh, Dawson and Joey's ongoing movie night tradition. Jen dropped some exposition tidbits and that her and Dawson have been slowing things down in their relationship. And Joey lets us know that Bessie's baby is due within the week to settle the uncomfortable situation. Both girls bail on movie night, leaving Dawson on his own.
Stella: I just thought it was funny. Like, you see Joey and Dawson on the bed, okay, this is normal. And then all of a sudden Jen just like awkwardly on the side on the chair. Yeah, it's always like Joey and Dawson on the bed. But if Jen's like the quote unquote girlfriend, why isn't she on the bed? I don't know, it was just funny. Made me laugh.
Mallory: I kind of wonder if the next episode is going to be Jane on the bed with Dawson and them watching a movie.
Cody: Yeah, not only is Jen not on the bed and sitting in a chair, it also looks like the most uncomfortable chair I've ever seen. Okay, this episode specifically has two very uncomfortable chairs meant for Jen and then another for Bessie later. So thematically, we're looking at uncomfortable chairs. Weird.
Mallory: Weird.
James: When that reveal happened and we pan over to Jen, I laughed so hard. I was just not expecting that in the least. And it felt so romantic. So romantic. I mean, God, wouldn't you love to be the third wheel with your significant other and their weird platonic best friend who's also romantically interested in your significant other? Doesn't that sound like a fun time?
Stella: Yeah. I want to know why was Dawson wanting all of them to be closer together? Why not just do something separately with Jen? Like have a movie night with her?
Mallory: He wants to have his cake and eat it too.
James: Yeah, well, yeah, remember, I think it was episode two or whatever when they were going to do the Travolta movie night thing and it was going to be, uh, Jen and Joey and Dawson. So he's been pushing for this for quite some time at this point. It's been like months in Capeside and he's finally got it to work out and it goes pretty spectacularly bad, I would say for him.
Cody: This show continues, uh, to sin over and over again of uh, characters are clearly not communicating with one another until an event is happening. So why wasn't any of this discussed before they even got to the house? It's not like they would keep this from each other. There's already friction with all these relationships. It's like they were all silent for an entire day. Went into this room, watched a movie with no one talking and then went, wait a minute, this is weird.
Mallory: Yeah. Also like Jen and Joey kind of bonded last episode. So it's like, what didn't they just become closer?
James: Just forgets I feel like the show just forgets the things that it establishes in previous episodes and is like, well if we forgot, nobody else is going to remember anyway, so fuck it, let's just go forward.
Cody: Yeah, they had that going for them though with Episodic TV back then. They're kind of banking that this will probably be the first episode of the show that someone's going to see. Um, just like our listeners. This might be your first episode too high listeners. Uh, rate, uh, and review and subscribe and um, uh, also, I think it's really important to note in this that Kevin Williamson once again is just squeezing himself in and he puts a screen poster up.
Mallory: Oh yeah.
James: I hadn't ever noticed that before this episode. Has that poster always been above his bed? I know What You Did Last Summer poster in his room, but I'd never saw the Scream poster right above his bed.
Cody: Anyway, Scream is new.
James: Yeah, cool.
Cody: Well, after the intro, we, uh, head out to bessy, uh, Body Joey house. And Bessie is chowing down on a big green popsicle while complaining about the side effects of her pregnancy. Bodie assures her it'll all be over soon as the due date is on the horizon. Bessie and Joey trade some sass and Bodie drops a big old bomb that he's going to interview at a fancy French restaurant later that day.
Mallory: So confusing to me, that part, because I could have sworn that they owned the Ice House the way that they were in those previous scenes. It's like they ran the place. So is he getting a second job or uh, do they both just work there and manage it at the Ice House? And he's getting a new job?
Stella: Yes. Similar questions. Why is he interviewing? I mean, maybe a second job because they need more money or maybe it pays better.
James: Yeah, I kind of always got the impression that they just worked there, that they didn't own the place, but that maybe one of them is the floor manager and one is the head chef. But they just work there.
Mallory: So it's confusing because there's no one else like, working there in the scenes.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Uh, that's why I assumed that they owned it. I was so confused. Bodies going for a different gig. There you go.
James: I, um, have a quick note on the intro credit. So I actually watched this episode on Hulu, um, for one of my rewatches, just because it finally has been taken off Netflix as, uh, of our recording date here. You can find it on Hulu and HBO Now. On Hulu. However, this is something interesting. Remember way back when in episode one when we were talking about the intro song and how great it was to hear Paula Cole saying, I don't want to wait? Yeah. During that time, we had mentioned how there is an alternative theme song that was used at certain points in Dawson's Creek's history. It is what you will find on Hulu if you go and watch the episode. Um, I watched it with Hulu, and let me just say, that theme song sucks nuts. And it does not fit the vibe of the intro credit whatsoever. I actually capped it. I don't have the ability to play it right now because my sound pads are full. I will play it later for all of us to hear, and I'll drop it in when I'm editing, uh, the clip right now so we can all hear it. It just doesn't match the way they shot the intercut. So it's an interesting note if you're watching on Hulu and you're like, why is this the song? Well, that's why they do that. Hulu must not have got Cole, I guess.
Cody: No, I thought we talked about this.
Mallory: We did, but they brought it. I think that song you're talking about was on all of the platforms for a while, and then it was replaced by the original one. Again, I just don't know why. I don't know why. Who hasn't done that?
Stella: Interesting. Okay, so going back to, uh, the bessy, uh, bodie Joey house, um, the only other thing I thought was funny was, um, Bessie being so sassy with Joey about how she could move out.
Mallory: Yeah.
Stella: Okay. Weirdo.
James: So I agree. Um, this is where I'm going to enter my first piece of evidence here about the vampire. So we've talked about the fact that vampires run capeside and that there's all sorts of paranormal and supernatural entities, that Gramps Ryan is a vampire hunter. Um, and that potentially Grahams is affiliated with this. So I'm just going to play this little audio clip and then we'll talk about it afterwards. Really quick. Here we go.
Mallory: This cannot last another week. It's inhumane. I don't sleep anymore. My m legs are fat. My back is killing me. I feel like wretching 23 hours a day. Do you know the average gestation period for the fruit bat is two months. Two months. That's fair. That's reasonable. Why can't I give birth to a fruit bet? Because we're about 80% sure you're human. Oh my God.
James: All right, Betsy.
Stella: Serious evidence.
James: Okay, so here's what I'm thinking. Bessie has a vampire baby inside of her. Potentially Bethy and Body are both vampires. Somehow Joey is Scott free here, but she wants to give birth to she wants to give birth to a fruit bat. Yeah, right. More like a vampire bat, am I right? Also 80% human. Yeah. What a good scene introduces, um, one of my there are three things that I love about this episode. First, uh, all the vampire lore.
Cody: Yes.
James: All right, we've established that. Second, town names.
Cody: Oh my God.
James: This episode is full of great town names. First, we have Hyannis is the town that, um, bodies is interviewing for the French restaurant. There's another name later that I'll mention. And then the third thing that I love about this episode is people's last names in Capeside, which I will point out at a couple of points later on in the episode as well. But, uh, yeah. What an interesting town. I wonder if Janice is a real place. It must be, but I just I.
Cody: Didn'T do any research. I'm so sorry.
Mallory: I looked up a couple of others. I'm not sure if I looked that one up, but yeah, the others are real.
James: Hyannis, uh, is real. It's in Massachusetts. Uh, this is where the site is supposed to be. Yeah. So that's fun. Cool.
Cody: Well, over at Jen's grandparents place, graham's is cleaning Jen's room and comes across an erotic art calendar. Jen insinuates that Graham's is being a hypocrite for her negative reaction and that the image of Christ is kind of sexy when he's naked on that cross. Graham says this is blasphemous, and wishes Jen was just the good Christian girl she once was, but Jen says she grew out of it.
Stella: Yeah, I was going to say this is the first time we see Jen's room and it was like so exciting. I love her room. That was fun.
Mallory: I love the juxtaposition of like you can tell that it's a, ah, room in Graham's house that Graham is designed that Jen is trying to make her own. There's like this floral wallpaper all over, but then she's got depression mode coaster up and there's like this creepy collection of dolls.
Cody: Those were good. She brought those from New York.
Mallory: And then like, of course, her lingerie on the bed. Yeah, it's a great thing.
Cody: In front of Capeside High Pacey and his English Lit teacher. Pedophiliclover. Tamara Jacobs unceremoniously. Gab. As students casually stroll by, pacey complains that they never act like a real couple in public, having to hide their love away due to their illegal nature of their sexual relationship. And he invites her to Providence for the weekend so they can air quotes. Be free tomorrow. Thankfully, doesn't think it's practical.
Mallory: So, um, this is the first time we see Tomorrow's car, I believe. So she has a, uh, red Ford Mustang convertible and I think this might have been a bit of a nod to The Graduate, possibly. Um, dustin Hoffman drives a red, uh, convertible Alpha Romeo.
Cody: I don't know, but it would be.
Mallory: Like swapped because she's the one that has the car and I don't know.
James: That's cool.
Mallory: Pretty intentional that they have her in a red Must inconvertible.
Cody: You know what's, uh, crazy to me is that, uh, they want to go out of town to pretend to be a real, or at least Pacey does. But if they went to a different town, anyone there would be like, hey, why is that a grown lady, ah, dating a child?
James: Yeah. Why is that 15 year old boy holding hands with a 40 year old woman? Is that his mom? Well, they're making out so I don't think it's mommy time. I think it's, uh, some kind of strange relationship.
Cody: I do call it mommy time.
James: Mommy time. Um, I am just surprised that Pacey is this bold to be in the school parking lot having an open conversation with his teacher about going on a romantic getaway out of town. There's a kids walking around them super.
Cody: Bold and he's talking about like every weekend they have to lock the doors and close the blinds. Dude, every episode up to this point is them m just being as casual as hell in front of the entire town.
James: In Main Street, at a cafe. What are they doing? Well, they're talking about their relationship across.
Cody: The street from his work, no less.
James: Uh, yeah, it's insane.
Cody: In the high school boys bathroom, Dawson questions a urinating Pace if Tomorrow would really go out of town with him. Pacey zips up, declaring that she never really confirmed or denied the invite. He poorly checks the stalls to make sure no one in the tiniest high school bathroom on earth could be listening and tells Dawson that his relationship with Tomorrow isn't just about sex. As they leave, it is revealed that a student who looks as though they enjoy the music of fish is standing on a toilet smoking pot and has heard the entire conversation.
James: Was that young Cody in the bathroom.
Cody: Teetered with the Tweezer?
Mallory: Actually, uh, I think it was supposed to look like he was smoking pot but if you pause it he's holding a cigarette.
Cody: Yeah.
James: But he's holding it like a joke.
Mallory: He's holding it like a joint.
James: Clearly supposed to be a stoner. Okay, yeah, but I bet the studio couldn't let him have a hand rolled anything. This is before hand rolled cigarettes were like in popular culture as much so I guarantee the studio is like, no, he can't be smoking weed, he's got to be smoking a cigarette. Which how don't they smell fucking tobacco?
Cody: Smoking?
Mallory: Yeah.
James: Uh, he's actively smoking and they're like got to be careful. You never know who might be in here.
Stella: You wouldn't check the stalls before you started this conversation? Yeah, uh, I just had so much anxiety during this. I know someone's in there. They're being so careless.
James: Yeah. I love the idea that after we talk through all of the dirty details now, we should check to see if there's anybody in here. What are you going to do if there is somebody? Are you going to see them up? You heard all that? You promise you're going to forget, right? You're not going to tell anybody? I've got my men in black mind eraser.
Cody: Checks, uh, the stalls and then sees one stall is locked and goes.
Mallory: Yes.
Cody: I'm not going to investigate that. I'm just going to assume that out of order.
James: Okay, great. I remember that one. Okay.
Mallory: The memorable quote of the scene was, once I get my learner's permit, this woman is going to cave completely.
Cody: Yeah. I'm 36 year old Tamara Jacobs, and I hear my boyfriend just got his learner seriment. Oh, my God.
Mallory: I can drive that.
James: You can drive me a roll as long as I'm in the passenger team.
Cody: So cool.
James: That's romantic, baby.
Stella: We can practice driving.
James: I can help you get your hours. That's so romantic.
Cody: Also, even if that kid is smoking, uh, a cigarette, be it cigarette or weed, uh, or cigarette, as Chris Tucker says in Rush Hour Part One, um, uh, it would smell so intensely as soon as they stepped into that restaurant, why would they talk? Oh, man. As though Dawson had already forgotten about Jen wanting to take things slow, he tells her outside their campus that his parents will be gone out of the weekend due to them being in a couple's therapy retreat. Insinuating that he and Jen could be intimate, jen changes the subject, revealing that the news of Pacey and Tomorrow has spread throughout the school like wildfire. Dawson races to tell Pacey and cannot deny the gen that he already knew about the scandal.
James: I am so confused how quickly this rumor has gotten around town or around school. It's been seemingly he has left the bathroom and is walking to class instantly. People know about this.
Mallory: There must have been a class in between or something. Yeah, there had to have been.
Cody: I don't know. I mean, in my high school, rumors like this happened all the time. And I do remember one. There was like, almost instantaneously and it was really I won't say any names to protect the people here, but it was a student. And the scenario was that, um, someone had been dropped off by their parents very early in the morning that day and they went into their first period class and, uh, the lights were off, but when they went in and turned the light on, the student was with the teacher in the dark. And I think by 730 in the morning, the entire school. It was instant. And this is like before people even have cell phones protecting each other.
Mallory: They were playing telephone.
Cody: Also my favorite game of all time.
James: Really.
Cody: My recommendation of this episode, the game telephone. Another thing too. Capeside is supposed to be a town of, uh, twelve, uh, but this campus has more students like every episode and added 800 students quickly with this. In the next sequence it shows them outside where there's, ah, 12,000 students. Uh, they can't even move. It's like Disneyland. And then the next scene they're in the hallway and they can't move because there are so many people.
Mallory: Yeah, it feels like a college, almost that amount of people.
Cody: It's a beautiful campus too. It's like a brick building that was built 400 years ago.
James: It's gorgeous. And you're right, especially in this next scene that we're about to talk about. It's like shoulder to shoulder people. The entire fucking hallway deep. Just like bumping into each other, jostling each other. It's like, is this the county high school? Just like everybody from all of the nearby towns goes to school here because it makes the town look like it's like a college town.
Mallory: But then there's only one ambulance. Whatever.
Cody: Yeah, there's one ambulance, there's one candle, uh, store that sells bird, uh, feeder, and uh, there's one, uh, diner.
James: Uh.
Cody: Back in the school, Joey runs up to Dawson and Jen, muscles tensed with excitement to tell them about the rumor. The excitement is cut short as they see Pacey strut down the halls without a care in the world as an unnamed student whispers in his ear, his face fades to the knowledge that the truth is now known.
James: The song, uh, has the most 90s song sorry, this scene has the most 90s song I've ever heard playing in it. In the background as they're watching Paci be told this rumor. It sounds like Pearl Jam with like a mumble rapper basically. Just like.
Cody: Did you clip it?
James: I did. I'll play, um, the clip, I'll drop the clip in at this, uh, point, but I don't have it on my sound board right now.
Mallory: It's called insecuriosity. That's the name of the song.
Cody: Awesome.
James: Beautiful name.
Mallory: Um, also I wanted to mention at the beginning of the scene, uh, when Joey approaches them, she looks very excited about this rumor.
Cody: Oh, that's so popular.
Mallory: That was interesting. Knowing what we've been kind of tracking her and Pacey, what's going to happen with them. She's like, oh, there's a rumor about Pacey?
James: Yeah.
Cody: To that. I feel like this episode solidified. Up until this point I was like, I don't see it. But now after this episode, I'm like, yeah, they're going to be together in an episode or two. Uh, Dawson and Pacey find shelter from the storm in a storage room where Pacey's doom is beginning to boil to the surface. Dawson tells him that he should just act as though nothing's the matter. As a way to stifle the rumor.
Stella: Um, I love Dawson saying it's not that bad. I was like, okay, Dawson, what world?
James: He told me a felony but I.
Stella: Kind of thought his advice wasn't that bad.
Cody: Like, yeah, that's the best, ah, way to handle it.
Mallory: Yeah. He says the only thing worse than a rumor is a substantiated rumor and then he tells him to just kind of act like it's nothing. So I thought that was good advice for a friend.
James: Yeah, I thought it was good advice. Dawson somehow manages to not be a total fucking moron in this episode. Like you kind of mentioned earlier. Now he's almost the voice of reason mhm throughout the whole episode, which is interesting. Yeah.
Stella: He's, uh, changed after that storm where he got some really great advice from Grants.
James: Yeah. Um, this scene is the first time I think we get confirmation of, um, my third favorite thing, which is people's last names. The kid that's in the bathroom smoking something, a stinky little stinker stick. Um, his name is Kenny Leverton, which Leverton has got to be the most made up last name.
Mallory: Oh, just wait till the last name in another scene.
James: Yeah.
Cody: I want all the liberty's out there to rate review and subscribe.
James: Yeah. I'm sorry, if your last name is Liberton, you are a real person. I didn't mean to invalidate your existence.
Mallory: Did anyone see the stick? It looked like a sticker or like a bumper sticker on the cork board behind Pacey that said, quote, human dart boards.
Cody: I had it written down. I've been googling like crazy because it looks like a band sticker or like a band name like where the human dart boards cannot ah, find anything. Human dart boards rate, review and subscribe. Please let us know if you're in a band. I can't find your stuff on anything.
James: If you Google human dartboards, um, and look at the images, we have a lot of fun stuff which is mostly a man wearing a dartboard costume. That's pretty fun. Um, yeah, I thought that human dartboard sticker was, uh, interesting. And there's also a New York Jets sticker on the cork board, which is fun.
Cody: Whose office is this?
James: Like it's a janitor's closet or something.
Stella: Like that what I thought.
Mallory: Yeah. Or PE teacher or something like that.
Cody: Yeah. It looks like the room equivalent of every drawer in every household where you put everything into your drawer. This has batteries and, uh, an old cell phone. Just thinking like, if you want to be in a cool anonymous punk band, you name your band something that if you Google it, you're just going to get a million different things. I'm going to start a punk band called Owl Costume. Well, Pacey leaves the storage room casually strutting as though to say, I'm not sleeping with my teacher, which instantly fails as every student in the hall points and laughs at him. As Pacey reaches the. End of the hall. He leans against the wall in despair.
James: Anybody catch those dare stickers on, um, the cork board that brought me back?
Mallory: Yeah.
Cody: Are you, uh, all still resisting?
James: Yeah, definitely.
Mallory: Drugs against no, wait.
James: Drugs and alcohol resistance or something.
Mallory: And then they dare to keep kids off drugs is like their quote.
James: I did think Pacey's Swagger was a little bit inspirational. I don't know if anybody else felt that way, but I was like, I could use a little bit of Pacey's energy in my daily life.
Cody: So I was wondering what the shooting schedule was like for this sequence. And then the sequence before when he was walking the halls and that student went up to whispering because he's walking the exact same day, either his regular walk or he was just like, I'm just going to walk like this in every scene. I don't want to mess up like whatever secrets I'm supposed to be starting. Like this.
James: That was pretty cool. I mean, he is walking, um, like a cartoon character. I mean, he's got like this big fucking shit eating grin on his face. And he's like bopping his head, chicken pecking the wind. And he's just like, hey, yeah, you over there. Figure guns and fucking. This is not how he normally walks. So if he's trying to play it off like nothing's happening, I think this isn't the right way to do it.
Cody: Because every two if they didn't even know about the rumor, they'd be like, I think Pacey had a stroke. He has like the DreamWorks animation smirk. His back is like, lean so far back that it's like, uh, yeah, it's cartoonish.
James: My read would be like, oh, so he's heard the rumors and he's proud of it.
Mallory: He's like, yeah, that's me.
James: And I think this is where we go to our first commercial break. So don't have time. We'll see you on the other side. M. Hi, everybody. James here. Just wanting to thank you for listening yet again. It is what keeps us going. Now, if you are enjoying the show, if you followed us online, if you've subscribed already, it's not the end of the world. There's one more thing you can do. You can tell a friend. Call them up. I don't care if you haven't talked to him in months, years maybe. They're a friend from elementary school. Call them. Tell them I've got a great podcast and you're going to love it. It's called freaksandcreeks. Go to their website, freaksandcreeks.com. Find them online at freaksandcreekspod.
Cody: I don't care.
James: I don't care what you do. Just tell them to come and check out the podcast. They're going to love it. And then you're going to be the cool friend who gave them a great recommendation. And isn't that amazing? Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the rest of the episode and go tell your friends about this show.
Cody: And we're back in Tamara's English lit class. She's trying to teach a section on Romeo and Juliet but the students laugh and make not so nice jokes about her affair. When Pacey enters the class, the mockery is turned up even further.
James: So is it a requirement for living in Capeside to have a fucking ridiculous last name like Mr. Twitchell as we're about to hear in this clip? Just listen to this. Hey, man, settle a bit.
Mallory: Keep up with the running commentary, Mr. Twitchell and I'll see you after class. It's the best name for a smartass student, Mr. Twitchell. So embarrassing.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Ah, it sounds like a primus song, Mr. Witchell.
James: I like the, um, high fiving that's going on in this scene. It's the stereotypical high school boy.
Cody: Yeah, man.
James: Fucking Goddard. High five, bro.
Cody: I'm super into, um, male bonding over misogyny. Ah, super into it.
James: Right.
Cody: High fiving and giving nuts over it is really sick. I just wish there was an entire show of just this scene. I want more forbidden fruit jokes.
James: Real or silicone?
Cody: Uh, see after glass. You promise? Pacey silently broods on a bench off the boardwalk and Joey joins him to lift his spirits. She sympathizes as her family life has been hot gas for quite some time. Joey tells him his only hope is to pray that some other hot goss comes along to take the heat off.
Mallory: Hey, jailbait.
Cody: Love you, Joey.
Stella: This is a sweet moment between the two of them.
Cody: This is the scene that I think, like, solidified for me that they will have a relationship moving forward. A romantic relationship.
Mallory: Yeah. The end of this scene for sure. Because he looks at her the way he looks at her. Something is going to happen between them.
Cody: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
James: Okay.
Cody: Pacey and Joey have been friends with Dawson, right. Like, they've been the Triforce, if you will, for quite some time. Why isn't Pacey invited a movie night?
Stella: Great question.
James: Why is it just Joe question?
Mallory: He has been spending time with tomorrow.
Cody: That's true.
James: I also get the feeling that it's like Pacey and Dawson are tight. Tight. And then wait, sorry. Dawson and Joey are tight and then Pacey and Dawson are like maybe that's just the boyfriend. The boyfriend?
Mallory: I think what you mean is, like, Joey and Dawson have probably made them they've been friends since childhood, whereas maybe Pacey and Dawson, they've had a shorter friendship and I don't know, who knows?
Cody: Yes. Okay. Uh, again, this is like, kind of wish they had never done this tomorrow plotline. But if this was like a must for the show to have, that be a plot line. I wish it had come later so we know what Paisley's relationship to these people were before this was added because I wish I knew more about what his life was like before tomorrow.
James: Right, um, so I kept a little bit of audio here just to kind of capture this, I think we all agree is the beginnings of a, uh, romance between Pacey and Joey. Let's take a listen.
Stella: Imagine that Pacey.
Mallory: We actually have something in common providing gossip for the small mandel towns folk.
Cody: You know it's cool. In the episode Discovery, Dawson, after he finds out about his mother's affair, um, it does an electric guitar kind of solo thing transition to him. Yeah. And it's him on a bench brooding. And now we have Pacey, uh, sitting on a bench brooding. All the men in Capeside are taught that once you have a mental breakdown, you go sit on a bench and silently brood.
James: And, uh, also when Pacey is sitting on the bench, the bench, we get that same weird bluesy guitar style music that's playing underneath it. So it's definitely blue's. Uh, guitar is the sound of emotional turmoil for adolescent boys.
Mallory: It's the brooding bench.
James: Yeah, that's a good and right by the water, which as we know, water has some kind of meaning in Dawson's Creek land.
Stella: You tell me what listeners right in Forever a mystery.
James: Nobody's going to figure it out.
Cody: Um, moving forward, they've established that Joey's dad is incarcerated. Um, do you think that we'll ever meet Joey's dad? Will he ever get out of prison? Do you think m he'll come back into the picture?
James: Good question. I'll be played by Bruce Springsteen.
Cody: Well, that was going to be my second question. Sam, casting. Who do you want to play her.
James: Dad, bruce Springsteen or Steve Carell? HM, yes. That's it.
Cody: Well, I nailed it for me. I hope we get to meet her dad for me. Do, uh, you know John Lori from, um, a bunch of Jim Jarmish movies? He was in, uh, The Lounge Lizards but I was thinking like, he has to be like a grimy kind of actor if he's in a prison character. Oh yeah, but he kind of looks like Joey too so I feel like they have similar, uh, head shapes. I feel like he would play a really good Mr. Joey. John Lewis rules. Everyone getting to John Lori. Dawson walks Jen home, who's complaining about the friction between her and Graham's. With no solution in sight, Graham stands in the doorway like Nosferatu as the two split apart, grandma Nosferatu tells Jen to wash up before the 06:00 supper as though it's 1922.
Stella: Is this where Jen says that she feels like she's rude to Graham's? I feel like she's not that rude to her.
Mallory: Like, no.
Stella: I don't know, I feel like she talks pretty politely compared like with Graham's forcing religion on her. I feel like Jen is pretty respectful but oh, there she is.
James: Yeah. Cody's holding up a picture from the film Nosferatu of asparagus in his little creepy doorway and it looks just like Graham's. But I think you're wrong, Cody. I think she is actually not a vampire because Graham is the vampire hunter and she's just looking out to make sure that no vampires steal her daughter.
Cody: I mean, granddaughter Graham's is like blade a vampire vampire hunter.
James: That's interesting. And then maybe Gramps heart, uh, surgery that he had isn't actually heart surgery. It's just a safe way for her to farm blood. She just kind of like.
Stella: Also where is Gramps?
Mallory: He still must m still be at the hospital.
Cody: Well, he's washing up before 06:00.
James: Any notes on the fashion here? On what Jenn wear?
Mallory: Yes, um, because I got to say.
James: That'S the ugliest fucking dress I've ever seen.
Mallory: Yeah, it's just like long dressed with uh like an empire waist and a collar and then she has these chunky boots. Chunky? I thought the styling was cool, but it's very nice. Yeah, it was different. I don't remember seeing that type of.
James: Dress a lot floor length and completely just a rectangle. It's just uh, a rectangle with a collar that she's wearing.
Cody: Pretty cool.
Mallory: It must be a New York thing.
James: I'm walking here.
Cody: Hold on a second. Were we just transferred to New York City?
James: That voice you all didn't know, but Mal is actually an expert accentric.
Cody: Are you a master? Do an impression.
Mallory: Funny thing about New York accents though. Uh, when we were young, my brother, uh, could not say his Rs. And when he was in school, a, uh, teacher taught that he was from New York because he couldn't say his AWS. Yeah, he can now.
Cody: Please do more of this impression.
Mallory: Note.
Cody: Joey comes home from school to find Bessie foot on the gas pedal stuck in the mud in the family truck. Bessie reveals that the baby is on its way, but their telephone is out and there's no way to call an ambulance. They surmise their best option is to get to Dawson's house to use his telephone.
Mallory: I love this scene. The music like when they were like it was like this spiraling thing where it's like, oh, this doesn't work and then this doesn't work. And the music was like this caper, like oh, like I don't know how to describe it, but it was great.
Cody: Turning up that intensity. Yeah.
Stella: Um, I was really excited because when they were like, we have to go to dolphins, I was screaming internally saying, show us some rowing. I was so happy that it cuts it out but I, um, was just so confused. So they don't have a neighbor closer than Dawson that they can get to? They have to row I don't know.
Mallory: For the phone because their phone doesn't work. So truck is stuck and need an ambulance. Phone doesn't work. Need to go to Dawson to get the phone, have to row a boat.
James: I think we see why they take the boat everywhere too because this is apparently a fucking mud. Trail through the forest is the only way to get to their house to find rowing through the creek.
Mallory: Also, does Joey like hike home? She was on a trail.
James: Did, um, anybody else think Bessie was I know that she's pregnant, um, but when this scene opens and she's just gunning it in the mud wildly, I was like, did she get into a drunk driving accident? Listen to this audio. I captured this because when you don't see the visuals, I think it sounds like she's drunk.
Mallory: I'm so glad you're here.
Stella: What happened? Are you okay?
Mallory: It's nothing, really.
James: I just had one too many drinks and the road got away from me.
Cody: Huh.
James: I'm sorry.
Cody: I had, uh, three, four locos.
Stella: Also, the way Joey says Betsy I know every time in this episode it sounds like that.
Mallory: Oh, weird.
Cody: It's like she's a Pokemon named Bessie making Mao's dreams come true. We see Joey once again rowing a boat on the titular Dawson's Creek. This time she's rowing Bessie to Dawson's house. Bessie complains that she isn't going fast enough, so she takes the oars to do it herself. Joey proclaims that the boat is sinking when in fact Bessie's water has actually just broke.
Mallory: Patting myself on the back, I called this.
James: You did?
Stella: I felt concerned about Joey being an idiot, uh, for not understanding. Yeah, the boat is leaking and.
James: It'S.
Stella: Not the boat leaking. And Joey's like, what is it?
Mallory: I wonder if they had her say, my water broke, but they cut it out because they just kind of were to assume, obviously, that that's what it is.
James: What time of day do you think it is as they're rowing?
Cody: Dude, this makes no sense. I think takes place over the course of a day, which a lot of events happen, but this looks like it's sunset, but later the sun just goes never mind, I'm going back.
Mallory: When we go back to what Pacey's doing, he's in daylight. And then when Joey goes out in the yard during, uh, the labor, it's.
James: Like daylight, but then inside the house, it's kind of like it was during the storm. It's like, kind of dark and brooding. It wasn't until probably my second or third watch where I was like, oh, wait, it's not nighttime when she's giving birth. It's actually still daytime. But the sunset really fucked me up.
Mallory: I was really I mean, it was beautiful. It made me want to go canoeing.
Cody: Yes, I bet. I mean, like, they shoot it and they're like, yeah, fuck it. It looks so good. We can't lose the shot.
James: Really pretty. Yeah, it was gorgeous.
Cody: But I imagine so this is all taking place okay, this all takes place for the rest of this episode after school. So, um, 03:00 to, uh, whenever the sun set. It's October, so the sun sets around 530.
Mallory: Uh, yeah.
Cody: Okay. So it's like a two and a half hour window that every event from here on out takes place. Which is a lot. There is a lot that is about to happen. That's so fun.
Mallory: Yeah. I mean, I want to know more about this expert orsmanship that we are supposed to have.
James: Yeah. So she can apparently paddle just fine normally, but now that she's got her sister in crisis in the boat with her, she's the worst paddler in the entire world.
Cody: Dawson's in his room on the phone trying to get a hold of Pacey, who's apparently missing. Jelly pops in to tell him that Bessie is having the baby right then and there on his lawn.
James: Yeah, this is a really short scene.
Cody: It establishes though that Pacey is missing.
Mallory: Yeah. And Dawson's worried about him.
James: He's still just sitting on that bench, just like, fuck man.
Cody: Bessie is chilling on Dawson's couch as Dawson talks to the 911 operator about getting an ambulance there ASAP, he learns the horrible truth that due to a massive pile up on a freeway, an ambulance won't be able to get to them for quite some time. Bessy grabs the phone and accosts a 911 operator who is most likely making minimum wage and has no control over the traffic jam. Joey also lets everyone know that Bodie has already taken off to his interview.
Mallory: And is unreachable another fun town name. Yeah, what was mentioned it was Ducksbury.
James: Ducksbury.
Mallory: That's where Bodies interview is. That's where the pile up is. That's where the pile up is, right. It's real.
James: It is a real town in Massachusetts. Yeah. So they have done some locations.
Stella: Um, did you look and see if Ducksbury and the other place are close?
James: No, I didn't. That's a good I will do that live. Um, this scene is also where apparently Bessy just becomes southern all of a sudden is now a southern bell. Starting um, with this scene, she has multiple moments where she's just kind of got a southern affectation. Let's take a listen to this very short clip.
Mallory: One hospital with one ambulance and a doctor within 30 miles. Another of the hidden joys of living in the middle of nowhere.
Cody: It's like a weird Tennessee elvis Presley.
James: It's so ah weird.
Cody: It was a combination of things. What is that?
James: I don't know.
Stella: Guys, I think we should take a trip.
Mallory: Take a little road trip to all these little towns.
James: Yes, we're going on tour.
Stella: Record episodes there.
Mallory: That would be great. So in the truck scene, I paused where you can see some of the, uh, bumper stickers and there's a bumper sticker that says Katie's and it's like kind of caught but it says Great Eats. And I looked it up and this place exists in that area and it's been around since I don't know, like the 80s or something but it's like a grill, like bar and grill. Like Katie's bar and grill. So we could go there.
Stella: Oh my gosh.
Cody: Have that kind of attention to detail.
Mallory: Uh, it must have been someone's truck or they put it on there, I don't know.
James: It's great that this show is so grounded and real. The dialogue is like spot on. This is definitely what I'm hearing. And these locations are real. It's great. Um, I have another continuation of my, um, big gripe with this show, which is everybody talks the same. Let's take a listen here to Bessie sounding exactly like Dawson, Pacey, Joey, Mrs. Manmade, and every other character in the show. Let's take a listen.
Mallory: Listen, you sorry. A civil servant. This is the mother to be talking. Maybe I'm not in the tax break that guarantees a prompt response to medical distress, but I have a shoe full of amniotic fluid, my pelvis is beating like a rumba band, and I'm in real danger of having my first child delivered by two high school students. So why don't you stop making excuses, get off your oversized backside and get us an ambulance before my fetus enters college.
James: Right. I love, uh, the fat phobia. That's cool. It is definitely the I'm just starting to get a really good picture of Bessie in that she's a horrible person.
Cody: Yes. Up until this point, I really like Bessie. And then now that she's being mean to this nine one operator, I was like, no thanks.
James: I mean, to be fair, she is giving birth and it seems like it hurts quite a bit. So, uh, she does have that excuse, but yeah, I don't know. Like I said, everybody talks the same. Um, it's so clear that there is, uh, you know, whoever is writing the dialogue is consistent through he gets like one line in every episode and it's this line. He's like, Fuck you, I got it. Um, my feet of centers. College. Okay.
Cody: Good job, Connie.
James: We got one. Now go away. Can, uh, you organize the paper, please? Why don't you clean the whiteboard?
Cody: It's the writer's thing, man. Like, every Aaron Sorkin script sounds exactly the same. I think it's just Kevin Williamson being like, that's his stick and it's not good. But you know what's worse? The song was playing underneath them. Yeah, but don't I like to, I don't know, tooting my own horn here. I like to challenge myself by listening to music that I normally wouldn't be interested in because I think it's important to constantly push yourself. Other types of things, uh, you wouldn't normally interact with. Um, I like a lot of stuff that I don't like. That's the worst music I've ever heard in my life.
James: The bomb like a step up from elevator smooth jazz into elevator blues. Like hold music, basically.
Cody: Elevator Blues.
James: Uh, what was that band name that we came across just a little while ago? That's going to be their singles. Elevator Blues.
Cody: Dude, in 1992, I saw a brooding bench open for Human Dartboards and it was the sickest show I've ever seen. That's crazy.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Kirk O'baine was in the crowd. Dude, you're both of you. And play. Tamara comes home from work to find Pacey waiting for her, upset that Pacey opened his big, dumb young mouth about their affair, she lets them know that the faculty at school are already talking about it and that it's likely that the law will find out soon too. And with that, she breaks up with Pacey.
James: Damn. Does anybody else think that her house suddenly got way nicer? Later on we see the porch towards the last few scenes. There's like a big jutting porch with a wrap around bench and a nice table and it's like she had like a cool beachfront house, but this makes it look like a whole ass, uh, cottage type thing.
Cody: My memory is as bad as a goldfish, but I'm pretty sure every house in the show changes episode to episode.
James: The Leary house.
Cody: Except for the Leary house during the hurricane. I thought that it was just like a bunch of sand and then a couple of steps up to her porch.
James: Like a mud porch kind of a thing. Yeah.
Mallory: Maybe this is the other side of the house. No, it did look different. Yeah, I agree.
Cody: Sad stuff, though.
James: Yeah, very sad.
Mallory: End of an era.
James: All right, we are going to be taking our second commercial break here. We will see you on the other side.
Cody: Don't have time, baby.
Stella: Hey, everyone, just wanted to thank you for listening. It really means a lot to us. If you're enjoying the show, consider subscribing so you never miss an episode. Or if you've already subscribed, go ahead and give us a rating. It only takes a few seconds and it can make a huge difference for our show. So thanks in advance. Back to the show.
Cody: We're back as Betsy agonizes on the couch. Joey pulls Dawson aside to say they're too young and naive to know what to do to help Betsy. Dawson says there has to be someone in the town who would know what to do in the situation.
James: Oh, okay. I forgot about this scene. Uh oh, no, I didn't actually cap it. Um, I really liked Bessie's primal scream that she lets out in this. That's the only thing I forgot. Basically everything else about this.
Mallory: It was a very quick scene.
James: It was like that scene in a, uh, Total Recall where that person.
Cody: I don't know much of her work, that actor. Has she ever been in a horror movie?
Mallory: Yeah, I don't think she's been in anything else because I remember I tried to look into it for the first steps for our first recording and I couldn't find much. I think she's a friend of Kevin Williamson or something. So it was like, uh, something like that. Maybe she hasn't done a lot of acting.
James: I don't know.
Cody: Good scream.
Mallory: Yeah.
James: Yeah. If she's a friend of Kevin Williamson, I wonder if she's a friend from North Carolina or wherever they're from. And that explains her weirdly southern accent.
Mallory: I believe that's what or they went to college together or something. There's something where they're from.
Cody: The same area as Jen studies in her room. She looks in her desk, ask to find the word of God in book form.
James: Pretty cool. I wish my grandma would slip a Bible on my nightstand.
Mallory: It reminded me of when you go to a hotel and there's like a Bible in the drawer.
Stella: What did Graham expect like Jen to.
James: Be like, oh, I've been meaning to read this. I just can't seem to find a.
Stella: Copy.
Mallory: Of King James edition.
Cody: Uh, Jen addresses the King James Bible Graham had snuck into the desk and says she has the right to her own privacy and beliefs and her atheism shouldn't be taken personally. She, too says that she doesn't have as much faith in humanity as she does in God either. Meanwhile, Joey knocks on the door and begs Graham to help with the birth.
James: She gives quite a speech. I kept it here if you all want to hear it. It's pretty great. Oops, just deleted it. Let's, uh, see if I can fix that one. Here we go.
Mallory: Look, I know you don't like me or proof of my family, and I know that you can think of at.
Stella: Least 80 reasons why Bessie and BOI.
Mallory: Are the worst kinds of sinners. But right now, as we speak, my sister is sitting next door in Dawson's.
Stella: House, inches away from giving birth.
Mallory: And of, uh, those 80 reasons, I can't think of any that the baby is actually responsible for. So if you could remember that as.
Stella: A nurse, you took an oath to help others need.
Cody: What a mouthful.
James: Motor mouth, mile a minute line delivery, verging on the everybody talks the same principle that I hate.
Stella: Is this the first time that we learn that Graham is a nurse?
Mallory: Did you ever know?
James: We mentioned it last episode, right.
Stella: Discovery.
Mallory: Because when, uh, we found out that Jen wasn't coming to help with her grandpa, she explained that my grandma's in our she said RN.
James: That plot point only exists for this episode. I feel like there will never come a time where Graham's being a nurse is going to be relevant to the plot again after this episode, I'm sure.
Cody: As Pacey walks home like a Charlie Brown dunce, his bastard cop brother Officer Doug rolls up and informs him that while he was getting a haircut, the rumor of the fair between Pacey and Tomorrow was discussed. Doug's version of the rumor paints Pacey as a liar and he wonders how tomorrow feels regarding the slander. Pacey just wishes Doug would defend and support him. Doug drops the bomb that Superintendent Stevens is having a board meeting regarding pressing charges against tomorrow.
Stella: I feel like throughout the last couple of episodes we're learning a little bit more about Pacey. It just sounds like everyone in his family is just really hard on him, not very nice to him.
Mallory: Mhm.
Stella: Um, so yeah, just, you kind of get that little insight that Pacey is like it would be nice if you stood up for me and supported me.
Mallory: Right.
Stella: So we're starting to maybe sympathize with him a little bit more.
James: Maybe. I don't know. I did capture that audio. I want to play it. Let's listen.
Cody: And just as a matter of curiosity, did it ever occur to you just for a brief moment to defend or support me in this conversation? The Witter family Credo prevents such a you date us.
James: Uh, does the winter family credo prevent such a Boshan? Like he is an android?
Mallory: Sounds, um, like his family is, too.
James: Now, I would just like to quickly correct, uh, you, Cody, you called him Officer Doug.
Cody: Oh, what is he? Deputy Doug.
James: Deputy Doug. Okay. Dougie, you are nasty.
Cody: Uh, yeah, I am a nasty.
Mallory: Casey has called him Dougie a few times.
Cody: What's, uh, the difference? I don't know anything about anything.
James: Well, um, it's alliterative no idea. That's the major difference.
Mallory: Yeah.
James: Um, I was wondering on my re watch, so we are familiar with this concept of the thin blue line and cops the blue wall and all that stuff. Cops looking out for other cops by making up things for them. I was wondering if anybody else thinks that maybe this is Dougie trying to give Pacey a way out or if he's actually being an asshole. I felt like there were a couple of moments where he's almost, like, leading Pacey to this idea that he made it all up, that he was lying. Or do you actually think that Doug is just like, you're a fucking idiot?
Stella: Yeah.
Cody: I don't know.
James: But he is an asshole, so it does fit. But I wonder yeah, I mean, I.
Mallory: Know what you mean because he was explaining, uh, saying that when he found out it was a lie, he was like, Bingo, my brother.
James: And what does Pacey later say when we're in the courthouse? That he made it all up. So he's almost like, taking the idea that Doug provides him and then making it more believable. But maybe it's unintentional. Maybe he just is like, well, this is the way out here versus Doug actually giving him a way out.
Cody: Now, I think what this is is you being smarter than this show because that would have been a very interesting plot point for what this is.
James: And like we talked about last or I think I may have mentioned this, but last episode with the revelation that Pacey's dad is the chief of police and how I postulated that he is above the law that there will never, ever be any ramifications for any of his shortcomings because of this. That this kind of feels similar to that. But I agree. I think that that might just be me. Um, I'm a genius. I don't know if anybody knows this, but, uh, I'm super smart and I think I just improving it right now.
Cody: Yeah, it's just like another problem with the show having such poor exposition because you. Never see any of these things happen. It's just everyone walking around saying what happened? There's never a nuance to it.
James: Yeah. It would be so much better to get a slice of life scene from Pacey's house where they're like, sitting around the table and his dad is talking to Deputy Dougie and they're like, hey, how many, uh, people did you give tickets today? And he's like, I don't know, 50,000? And he's like, wow, cool. Great job, sun. Hey, Pacy, you're a fuck up. I hate you. Why don't you go shit on yourself or something? And that would have been way better than what we constantly get, which is just verbal exposition. It's tell don't show on this show, apparently.
Cody: Yeah. Uh, my home life is bad and this is the reason why. Yeah, a much better show would I mean, God, can you imagine having a show that would actually address what it's like to be a, uh, kid being protected by the police? And I mean, that's such a great topic for a drama and something that attacks, uh, the worst, uh, union in the United States. Um, that would be so much more interesting than just whatever this garbage is.
Stella: Yeah. I mean, I wonder now that the relationship with Tammy is kind of done. So, um, if we will get to see a bit more of his home life and background mhm. I would like that.
James: Yeah, it'd be nice.
Mallory: Meet his sisters.
Cody: Three sisters, one brother, daddy, chief of police. Do we know what his mom does?
James: Not yet.
Cody: Okay, I'm going to say she's a prison executioner.
James: Okay.
Mallory: I'm going to say she's a realtor. Well, and then I think I just.
Stella: Thought, like, okay, he has three sisters. They must all be younger or grown because we would have probably seen them in high school with him.
James: Right.
Mallory: His age.
James: Well, they are mentally diverse, so we know that too.
Cody: Which as of means they have to.
Stella: Be at least in 13 years.
James: Yes.
Cody: As though he surpassed his influences to become a more transgressive filmmaker like Gaffar. No way. Or Lars Vontre. Dawson pitches Bessie that he should film the birth, his reasoning being that Bodie will want to see it. Joey brings in Graham's and Jen to help to the revulsion of Bessie. As the contractions get worse, Graham starts ushering orders and moves Bessy to a very uncomfortable looking chair, as well as telling her to shut up during the process.
James: Yeah. Not only does Dawson say that Bodie would want to see this film, but that without this film, he would forget about his child's birth.
Cody: Good reasoning.
James: Really good reasoning. And I'm pretty sure that is true. Like, for any father who doesn't see their child born, they're just like, how.
Cody: Did I get this thing?
James: Where did you come from?
Cody: Were your births, uh, filmed?
James: Mine was.
Cody: Have you watched it?
James: No. I tried to once and my parents were like, are you sure.
Mallory: I don't think mine was. I've seen photos. I don't know if mine was filmed.
Stella: I was a C section baby.
Cody: Uh, I don't get the films. Do people film?
Mallory: Really?
Cody: Okay, for our Patreon listeners, sign up.
James: To our Patreon so that you can watch my birth video.
Mallory: Did anyone catch when Dawson said conflict perfect?
Cody: Yeah, that got a legitimate laugh out of me.
James: I loved it.
Stella: It made me feel ill.
James: I feel, uh, like Dawson doesn't know what happens in a childbirth. He's signing himself up for this and pretty soon he's going to be like, oh, fuck.
Cody: Remember the movie Pleasantville and how everyone in that world is so like they're in a sitcom from the 50s, so they don't really know how the real world works.
Mallory: That's what Dawson is m. Um, also.
Stella: I thought it was silly that Bessie is, um, so not down with Graham's helping. Yes, I understand she's not a great person, but wouldn't you like to have an actual health professional or would you.
James: Rather have Dawson's hands up in there while he's filming too? Like, point of view doctor?
Mallory: And she did anyone catch that she called Joey Judas, essentially calling her a traitor for allowing Graham to be there.
James: She calls Dawson Mr. DeMille.
Cody: Yeah, that's cool. Uh, to play devil's advocate, one episode, Hurricane, was the last episode, right? I mean, if you're bessy it's like the last interaction you had with this lady is she didn't approve of your relationship because her partner is black. I would be like, I, uh, don't know about this lady.
Stella: Yeah, but they were being pleasant towards each other.
Mallory: I feel like in the last episode I totally agree.
James: I kind of noticed that Graham was really focusing her eye on Bodie, but Bessie was kind of defusing all of the tension. But then in this episode, Bessie's like, she's a borderline racist old woman who wants to kill me or I don't know what she says, but it's like, I thought you were really good at hiding this last episode. Again, the show forgets the things that it introduces for its characters.
Cody: It just sucks that Graham's continues to be like the beacon of light for all these people. She's such a bad person.
James: They even call her a borderline racist. But what does she do? She delivers the baby and she guides them to Jesus too.
Cody: So obnoxious. You think Kevin Williamson would know better.
James: Uh, yeah.
Mallory: What was he doing here?
Cody: At the Capeside Town Hall, Pacey finds Tomorrow with her attorney, Caroline Fields, who informs him that Tomorrow will no longer speak to him. The only way he will be able to communicate with her is through Caroline. In poetic, dramatic fashion, Pacey tells Caroline to tell Tomorrow that he's sorry.
Stella: Two things. One pacey calls her Tammy multiple times. Like, why are you calling her Tammy in public in front of this lawyer? You're an idiot. Um, and then also, it's just like this is moving very quickly.
James: Yeah. Just this morning you were peeing in front of your friend while, uh, a strange man smoked weed or cigarettes in the bathroom. 15 seconds later, the entire school knows about it. And here it is, like 330 and they're already in court.
Mallory: Everyone had time to put this in their schedule. She got a lawyer. A lawyer? Yeah.
James: I'm glad they're taking it seriously. Finally, somebody is actually taking this seriously. But yeah, it's very, uh, accelerated. Yeah.
Cody: The show is a cartoon. Everything is so fast.
Mallory: Anyone noticed Ms. Jacob's hair? She kind of had it all up and fancy faux victory, uh, roll style. And she had this snowflake brooch.
Cody: Yes. The brooch is really cool.
James: Yeah, I missed the brooch.
Mallory: Who's ready?
Cody: Later in this episode, Tamra, uh, describes Pacey as intelligent. And throughout this episode, Pacey is not intelligent. Like we've said, their relationship is very open for him. He doesn't care. Tammy. Tam. Hey, Tam. It's wild.
James: Yeah, it's very odd.
Cody: Dawson continues to film the labor experience, yet zooms in on a forlorn. Joey sitting far away on a couch. He runs to her, tells her that it'll be all okay, let's listen to.
James: This one more time, please. Oh, yeah.
Mallory: Okay.
Stella: Can you cue a, uh, genscreen tomorrow?
James: Wrong scream. Um, where is that? Where did you go? Here it is. Quite a collection of screams to go with, uh, our show so far. I'm really enjoying the way that people scream on this show.
Cody: And what a coincidence of the Kevin Williamson bro. The movie scream.
Stella: Oh, hey, um, I think, uh, early on, like, a few episodes ago, we talked about like, if anyone were to die, who would it be? I think I said Bessie, and obviously she's fine, but I felt like this was kind of setting up. Like, she's not going to be okay. Something might happen to her. But for a moment I was like, hey.
James: Yeah, I definitely thought that we were going to get Bessie, uh, dying in this episode and then rescuing the baby and then Bodie coming in being like, I got the job, Betty.
Cody: Oh, no. I'm going to work at Red Robin in the town hall courtroom. Superintendent Stevens grills tomorrow about the rumor. Right before tomorrow can weigh in on the truth. Pacey bursts in to cut her off, saying that he made the whole thing up. Monologuing about how being with tomorrow was something he fantasized about. And further record Pacey proclaims that the relationship never happened.
Stella: Yeah, I mean, again, I was just like, wow, this whole thing is just going real quick. Like, this is wrapping up. We got a conclusion.
James: The least convincing speech that has ever occurred. Like, if I am the superintendent and I'm weighing whether this happened and, um, one of the people involved is like, would I fuck her? Hell yeah. She just won't. So I just totally made it up, guys. But super in love with her. She's so cool. I'm just is too young. I'm just too young. You guys fucked. That's definitely what I'm picking up here.
Stella: Also, wouldn't they have interviewed the student that heard everything?
Mallory: What is the actual process when this happens? It's not what we saw.
Cody: I don't know anything about anything, but I'm pretty sure there's not like a panel, like the school board air quotes, uh, who are all these people? They all catch the re watching American Idol.
James: I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a legal professional, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't just be like, oh, yeah, you just want to talk. Yeah, no worries. Her lawyer is just like, oh, well, there's nothing I can do about this one. Let's just see what happens. Who knows what he's going to say. Fuck it, let him go.
Cody: I mean, I described this as a courtroom earlier, but I don't really know what room this is. It looks like a war room because everyone's sitting around in an oval town.
Mallory: Hall room or whatever, like a conference room or something.
Cody: And the only law people there is a, uh, lawyer and there's no judge. It's just one guy, a superintendent, who I don't think should be qualified to make a judgment because what is the judgment of this? So if they even come to a conclusion, is the judgment? Well, we're going to go tell the cops. Uh, what is it?
Mallory: Yeah, I don't know.
Cody: As Graham's and Jen double team birthing duties, jen fearfully declares the sight of a lot of blood, which obviously freaks out Bessy. Dawson tries to comb Bessy's fears, but Graham kicks him out of the room for being a ding dong. Joey runs out of the room distraught. As Jen comes back to the scene, she questions Graham's about the excess blood, to which Graham says that while there definitely is a little too much gore, she says Jen needs to have faith and she needs to help.
James: So I have a totally different read on the whole blood thing. Let's take a listen real quick.
Mallory: What did she say?
Stella: Blood?
James: She's thirsty.
Cody: Yeah.
James: Did she say blood?
Cody: Jen also says, I know what a lot of blood looks like. Why do you know what a lot of blood looks like?
James: What is that supposed to be?
Stella: And, uh, related to giving birth. Do you know what that looks like?
James: Clearly not, because the scene later when the baby is crowning, Jen's like, oh my god, I see it.
Mallory: I can see the baby's head.
James: All right, well, it is that time yet again. Everybody get out your tambourines and your Snappers, because it is a Snapper. Uh, it's time to go to our commercial break. We'll see you on the other side.
Cody: Of course I found my Snapper.
James: It's a freaking creepy day where we.
Cody: Find out what is our baby. Did you know that one day all of our souls will be sucked out of our bodies and placed into Mark Zuckerberg's metaverse. I never asked for that. But it's our stupid reality. So please follow us on Instagram at Freaksandcreeekspod. That's an at sign. F-R-E-A-K-S-A-N-D-C-R-E-E-K-S-O-D. Just like the Christian new metal band from the late 90s. Hey, that's when Dawson's Creek was on the air. Back to the show. And M. We're back at Dinosaur Story. Bessie is experiencing a lot of excruciating pain, but there's no medicine. As an inadequate replacement, graham begins reciting the Lord's Prayer. At first, Bessie isn't into it, but Graham says it's for the baby, which instantly changes her mind as she joins in to recite the prayer along with her. Shockingly, Jen jumps in as well, to beg the evangelical deity his mercy through a repetitive phrasing and ritual bizarre.
Stella: I can't remember if, um, this happens in this scene. Like, Graham tells her to push, and Bessie says, Push one.
James: Push one.
Mallory: Yeah, that was the scene before. I had written that down as well, but yeah, it's like, what, uh, the button. Oh. And then I think she says the baby, she's like, oh, okay.
Stella: I don't know. I feel like anyone would know that.
Mallory: Pushing, especially if you're in labor.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Devil's advocate. I think it's just to show that Bessie has lost her marbles during this experience. She's in such excruciating pain that she doesn't know the difference between up and down and left and right.
Stella: I don't buy it.
Cody: No, mhm, neither do I. I'm just trying to get my head maybe it's.
Mallory: Because he's a vampire.
Cody: Uh, yes, I think, uh, historically, vampires are known in the lore that they don't know what pushing means in general.
Mallory: Right, exactly.
James: Push this blood to suck the blood.
Cody: Wait a, uh, minute. We have someone from New York in this episode and someone from Transylvania. Uh oh, my gosh.
James: I've been meaning to tell you all I am a vampire. That's why I know so much about this.
Cody: God, that's so cool. And that's one of those things where it's like, once you have someone who has that experience going into media, they can really show you what something is, uh, personal.
James: It is.
Cody: Yeah. God, I want to watch so many more movies with you because you can really bring that vampire experience to whatever we watch.
James: Yeah, you might be surprised. One year old virgin. They're actually vampires.
Cody: A Steve Jobs movie.
James: Yeah. The Facebook one. Yeah.
Cody: Drop the.
James: Yeah.
Cody: I don't really like this turn of Jen just hopping into, uh, the Christianity stuff. I feel like, okay, this is my reading of why Jen is doing this.
James: Please.
Cody: So Graham is saying, you need to have faith in me and help with this situation. Just because Graham thinks, uh, Graham is a Christian and she believes that doing the Lord's Prayer will make Betsy feel better. Is she starting to believe in the Christian god? Or is she just doing this to appease Grahams as a way to get through this process because she thinks it might help bessy too?
Mallory: Yeah, I don't know.
Stella: I kind of feel like it's the latter. My feeling was that she was just trying to kind of like, support Bessie. But I think one of my initial, uh, predictions was that, uh, jen would cross over to some Christianity. She seems so, um, adamant in being an atheist. I don't really see it just being like, that easy for her to just.
Mallory: Write and then later she doubles down on it. Ah, I may have come around on man, but still an atheist, so I do agree with you. I think that she was going along with it and she knew the Lord's Prayer because she grew up with that. So it sounds natural. Sounded natural coming out of her, but I don't think she actually believes that.
Cody: Yeah, the thing that sucks is I feel the way that they're presenting this kind of information is that the way that at least I'm taking it is that this show is saying Christianity is the norm and Jen is rebelling against it. But at the end of the day, Christianity is the way kind of like in the way like the old fable that, uh, our parents are conservative and their kids will be wacky liberals and they're going to be like, hey, once you grow up, you're probably going to be conservative too. Just you wait. Once you get a taste of the real world, it seems like it's coming from the same perspective.
James: I kind of agree. It's like, oh, well, isn't it cute that Jen is an atheist? She knows that at the end of the day, she still knows that God exists. Um, but I kind of agree with you guys. I think that she was just playing along in the moment to either make it a little bit easier or make it a little bit less uncomfortable. I, um, think that I kind of agree though, that I feel like we continue to bring this up only to make it more impactful when Jen eventually goes to church and is like a believer at the end of the day. And this scene feels, uh, sorry, specifically her citing this prayer feels akin to if she is really like anti drug and alcohol. Suddenly she's just drinking booze at a party. It would be like, wait, but I thought you were not about this.
Cody: Oh, yeah, okay. For one, ah, uh, as someone who has a shared experience with Jen, as growing up evangelical and turning away from it, you could not pay me to even just like, pretend for a day. Uh, because it's just like, it's religious trauma. It's trauma. Having to do that is you're just making yourself suffer. Um, but then two, it just goes against everything that we know as a character, like from a writing standpoint, and from we're supposed to understand of who Jen is. It's like such a stupid I mean, they're trying to pull the rug out from under us. What a twist. I don't know. I hate it.
Mallory: Yeah. I feel like the scene could have been the same without Jen, like, joining.
James: In or give us some indication that Jen is doing this to humor Graham or Bessie in the moment instead of what she leads when she joins in, she's leading it. There's like a little moment where Bessie stops saying the prayer and then who leads the next section of the prayer? Jen, why is this happening?
Cody: And based on the music and how the scene is presented to us, it's meant to be such a wonderful, beautiful, gross joey's found wallowing in Dawson's backyard and Dawson tries to cheer up thinking that she's just scared over Bessy. But in fact, Bessie cries of pain remind Joey of her mother's cries of pain during her cancer treatment. Joey had wished she would never have to hear those cries again. And to that, Dawson encourages Joey to be with Bessie. Just as Joey had been there for her mom when she needed her.
James: So are we to believe that Joey and Bessie's mom is screaming? Like.
Cody: Just like mom.
James: So I've gotten home from a long day of chemo and I'm just sitting on the couch and what do I do? How is this bringing you back to your mom dealing with cancer?
Cody: Yeah, I wish that she wouldn't have said those cries. I think she say very specifically, those cries remind me because it's like I wish she would just said the feeling reminds me exactly, uh, having to be there where someone is going through something hard. Reminder.
James: Well, see, what we don't know is back in 1998 and before, the way that they treated cancer was actually just slowly removing your skin until they got to the cancer and then they just removed that all without anesthesia um, especially with vampire surgeons, which of course is what HM capeside has.
Cody: Oh, like in Breaking Dawn Part One where they have to deliver Bella's baby and the only way to do it is for them to bite through.
James: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Stella: Well, I'm not going to lie, this scene almost made me cry.
James: 100%.
Cody: Me too.
James: Holy shit, there's something wrong with me.
Stella: Yeah, just like I thought it was a sweet moment between Dawson and Joey where again, he is giving some really solid advice and just being a good friend and mhm, I thought it was a sweet moment.
James: Wow, me too.
Cody: I thought I would bring this up later, but I think it's important to just talk about it now that we're talking about being emotionally impacted by Joey's story here. It made me think every single time Dawson's on screen, I wish, uh, I was dead. Every time Joey is on the screen, I am engaged. I love Joey. She's fun, she's sassy, she's cool, she's interesting. Uh, even at the lowest lows that we've had with Joey, where she had to pretend to be someone else to be with that, uh, mr. Man who came from out of nowhere, um, with the antiques, even that it was a stupid story. But even then I'm like, Joey, this is interesting. Something's happening with this character. What sounds like a better show to you? Joey, uh, is a teen growing up in this small conservative town where everyone's super judgmental and she's growing up with her sister and her sister's boyfriend and everyone judges them. And it's like a coming of age story that's one show. The other show is a horny 15 year old boy that loves movies, uh, gets a girlfriend. Those are the two shows, uh, and I want to see the Joey show. I could not care less about Dawson and I think again, that's why I loved this episode so much.
Mallory: Yeah, and I loved the line, this is a Dawson line, but it's about Joey. And he said, look, I may not always agree with you, but your reasons are never stupid. And I thought that was great to hear.
James: Yeah, I kind of had the opposite, uh, experience. The very first time I watched I was like, wow, Dawson actually is giving good advice. And then on my next re watch, I was like, can I skip this fucking scene? I don't want to see this. And it's kind of like my problem with Graham's being the moral beacon and last episode, it's like, I don't want Dawson to be the voice of reason in this moment. I'd much rather that be Jen who is out there talking or fuck it, Mrs. Leary.
Mallory: But he's the closest person to Joey so it makes sense that it's him out there.
James: I don't know. All I have to say is this.
Cody: Yeah, Maui. I think they wrote themselves into a corner of being like, these people are best friends. And then they started the show and they're like, oh, Dawson's, yucky. But we still have to force him to be a good friend in a way. And I guess we're seeing that arc of him learning from his mistakes a little bit. Even if we don't agree with those mistakes that he's apologizing for. We're getting to a point where Dolphin can now be like, I guess it sucks that he's the voice of reason, but um, he is supposed to be that best friend and it's nice that he's giving good advice.
James: True.
Cody: Also, any scene that has Dawson where he's not doing a cute horny baby voice or um, doing like, I don't know, movie trivia and applying it to human beings gets a ten out of ten in my book.
James: Or talking about his parents sex life. Yeah.
Mallory: Mhm.
Stella: I feel like maybe last episode I kind of mentioned my hope and feeling was that these first five or six episodes were kind of like a prequel to the rest of the show where it really takes off. And I do feel like we're at a turning point where it's like, okay, PC is out of this disgusting relationship. Dawson's being like, a better friend and not so annoying. So maybe things will get better for these characters and we'll start to like them a bit more and I feel like it could be promising.
Mallory: Have faith.
Stella: Yeah. Uh, should we take a moment?
James: Yeah. Who wants to lead us? I do. Want to quickly take a moment here. So now that while this baby is about to be born, right. This is now going to be a character arc for Joey, it's not going to just be limited to Bessie and Bodie. Like, I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of Joey babysittingraising this baby and I'm not particularly interested in seeing that for her character arc.
Mallory: I want to see I want Joey.
James: I want to see Joey being a kid. I don't want to see Joey being an auntie.
Stella: Yeah. I had a moment where I felt excited. I was like, he's going to be like a cool aunt.
James: There's something wrong with me.
Mallory: I can relate.
James: I'm going to go start a different podcast called Dawson's Freak or something and talk about my vampire lore.
Cody: I'll be on that podcast too.
Stella: So this show is what, like six seasons?
Cody: Yeah.
Stella: So we could see the child up until like age six. Right. So maybe we'll get a little kid actor.
Cody: Yeah, we're going to get like 15 different actors on this child.
Stella: It's exciting.
Cody: As Tomorrow leaves the town hall courtroom, whatever it is, Doug tries to apologize on Pacey's behalf for being a dingbat. To his surprise, Tamara says Pacey has grown up to be a sweet, sensitive and intelligent man. Since she's feeling sassy, flirty and fun, Tamara tells Doug, uh, to call her Ms. M. Jacobs instead of Tamara.
James: This is a moment where it's, um, when Tamara is telling Doug that you should be aren't you proud of your brother because he's so sweet and sexy and hunky and man, he's got a dick the size of a fire hose. Um, don't you realize that you're being investigated for a sexual relationship with this child? Should you be calling him sweet and sexy and hunky and hung on your horse?
Stella: Yeah, I had similar thoughts. Mhm, if Death was, um, not thinking that actually that all happened, maybe he might think differently now.
Cody: Outside the town hall, Tomorrow pops into her car and drives off as Pacey watches with sadness.
James: Oh, wow.
Cody: Yeah.
James: The scene, the song, Santa hoff something around. All I want, all I want yeah.
Cody: Like you said earlier, I love that the town hall courthouse or whatever is right next to the school.
James: I was just really confused because I was pretty convinced that we were in a courthouse. But then we're definitely in the school parking lot. So how that's not the same parking.
Cody: Spot that we saw Tomorrow park in at the top of the episode too. Does she repark?
Mallory: Yeah, across the street.
Stella: Well, she had to leave and go get changed and meet her lawyer and do her hair.
Cody: Uh, well, that doesn't make any sense because teachers, I guess in this show, they show that Tomorrow has her own house. But I always assume teachers just lived at the school.
James: Yeah, that's why they have offices, actually. So that they can just lock themselves in at the end of the day and go to sleep.
Cody: Back at the Leeries, Bessie is finally given a final push and pops out a baby. Graham calms all our fears with the declaration that the gendered baby boy is healthy and perfect.
Stella: So first thing, do you think they're ever going to talk about the Circumcision again?
James: That was my first thought. Thought jinx.
Stella: Jinx.
Cody: Well, that's the name of the next episode. Circumcision. Get some oil in here.
Mallory: Um, not one mention of it. I guess if Bodie was there, there probably would have been.
Cody: Give me the fucking knife.
Mallory: Yeah, I got this.
James: I brought my chef's knife set, so I'm ready.
Cody: Hey, what do you think the prop goop is used to make that?
James: Uh, baby fucking strawberry jelly. They just dip that baby in a.
Mallory: VAT of jelly and they're like, definitely not an infant. Newborn baby.
Cody: That baby was like five years old.
James: Yeah, huge.
Cody: Yeah, it looks like raspberry jam and toothpaste. Yeah.
James: I loved how, um, so after the baby is handed, the little fucking slimy alien is handed over to Bessie. Um, jen cuddles up with Graham's. And Graham kind of like pats her arm, their hands. It's like a fucking murder scene. It's just like drenched in blood. It's like, whoa. Can you get a towel first?
Mallory: Okay, cool.
James: That's fine by me. Do you think Bessie is cool with Jen like three inches away from her vagina as this baby is getting pushed out? Like, wow, look at that thing.
Cody: How are you?
James: I can see it. Bessie.
Stella: You should see this shit.
James: She's like, uh, can you get away, please? While Dawson's got the camera, like fucking just like, come on, open your eyes, baby.
Cody: He's going to use it for his monster movie.
James: It's going to reverse that footage. Yes.
Cody: Now we're getting transgressive. I want to see some arthouse weird movie stuff with that baby being born.
Stella: I was going to maybe talk about this later, but, um, there's been a lot going on in the plot in the last couple of episodes. But there has been no mention of Dawson's movie that he's been working on. Or, um, Mr. Cliff, or, uh, the lady from school. What's her name?
Cody: Nellie.
Stella: Nellie.
Mallory: Or the teacher.
Stella: Yeah, none of that has we all.
James: Died in the hurricane, sadly.
Mallory: Right.
James: It's really tragic.
Cody: Honestly, it's kind of refreshing to not have that being a part of the show. Sure, yeah.
James: Plus, I.
Cody: Mean, his movie is bad. Like, I don't want to spend any more time and energy having to think about that stupid movie.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Uh, it's not going to do good at this festival.
James: No.
Cody: Pacey approaches tomorrow, who is kicking back on her porch with a big old glass of wine. She tells him that he doesn't need to apologize and thanks him for being a big boy. Meghan's, level up. Uh, he asked if their break up was a real. She confirms him by saying she's dipping out of Cape side forever. Oh, no. As, uh, she wants kids. Uh, doesn't seem reasonable. When Pacey asks for a good vice, she hugs him and kisses him on the forehead like a toss and watches them go away to the sunset. But all of that is just like such a a mommy boy.
James: She plants a kiss right on that unibrow. She's just like, I'm going to miss this fucking caterpillar.
Cody: I thought she was going to put a little helicopter cap on his head to give him a lolly.
James: I love this one. I'm going to play I cap this audio clip right now.
Stella: I hope it's the one that I.
Mallory: Want to have children before it's too late. I mean, I want to be their mother, not their girlfriend.
James: Oh God, how incriminating can you get? Like you said, you just admitted that you are dating a child. Yeah, okay. You're not even pretending at this point.
Cody: And also, I think maybe at this point in the writer's room they went, yeah, we made a mistake. We need to fix this now. Because I feel like this has to be the end. The end of everything. I mean, she's making it really solidified by being like, I am moving away, uh, forever. I am breaking up with you. This is it.
Mallory: Did you get the line where she says, I hope you enjoy high school?
James: Yeah.
Mallory: Take a look. Great. I hope you enjoy high school.
James: How romantic.
Stella: Yes, that was the one I was going to mention. Those two were my favorites.
James: Yeah.
Cody: M. Do you think that's insinuating that she wants Pacey to fuck? Mr. Gold?
James: I've got a friend for you. I'd like to set you up with him.
Cody: I might be leaving, but look at all these other teachers back at Jen's grandparents place. Jen tells Graham's good night, but Graham, as a means to connect with her, tells her that because they don't say certain things to each other doesn't mean that they don't feel them. And then the audience wins. She then asks after their shared experience that day if she still doesn't believe in God. Jen tells her that it made her change her mind, at least on humanity.
James: This is the most WASPy exchange that the show could ever have. It's like I have certain emotions of a positive sort that I do feel for you, though I may not articulate them because it is not good for me to articulate the way I was just like, just fucking say you love her. Good God.
Mallory: It's okay.
James: You don't need to cage it up. It's all right.
Cody: Feel something better if Graham handed her like, a gift and she unwraps it. It's a calendar that just says I love you.
James: Or a live laugh, love coffee mug.
Cody: Now I know these words are inappropriate. At the Bodie baby Joey house, bessie and Bodie are canoodling with their newborn. Joey walks in and Bessy hands the baby over to her and they both agree the baby has their mother's eyes. And I will not lie, I got choked up with that line and it gave me the chills.
Mallory: I feel like this is like a kind of a cathartic moment for Joey because she's been grieving and she actually looked happy when that line happened.
James: I totally missed that. I thought they were talking about having Bessie's eyes.
Mallory: I was like, no.
James: Okay, yeah, so I missed that. I, uh, have no emotions.
Cody: As soon as Beth Nielsen Chapman seven Shades of Blues acoustic noodling started playing, that line of dialogue happened. I got sent. I was in a different world. I was like, this is wonderful. I take back all of my criticisms of Dawson's Creek, but then the next scene made me go, no.
James: I think I missed that because I was just so confused by why this five year old child is in their arms. Like, got a full pucking head of hair. It looks like it can speak. How did this thing just come out of the womb?
Cody: You know what they should have done? They should have cast, uh, Pacey to play the baby.
Mallory: Does anyone have bets on baby name? What's the baby's name going to be?
Cody: They're going to name it after Graham's.
James: I think they're going to name him.
Cody: Um, Van Helsing or Blade now that it's half vampire.
James: Oh, that would be good. What's their last name again?
Mallory: Uh, Potter.
James: Potter. Blade Potter. That's a powerful name.
Mallory: Bessy, Bodie and Blade.
Cody: Harry. Can you imagine the name of Harry Potter?
James: Fuck, I missed it.
Mallory: I wonder what Bodies last name is.
Cody: Dumbledore. God, can you imagine if you were named Harry Potter, like, one week before the book hit the US.
James: Wow, I really hope that baby is named Harry.
Cody: Call me Harrison. Pacey is doing what he does best walking around on his own in Fort Lauren sadness. He takes a moonlit stroll on the beach. And as he looks up at Tamara's house, she turns out a lamp in her window, darkening the entire residence, as I can only assume allegorically symbolizes the closing chapter of her story. In another splash of poetic drama in this episode, pacey says to no one, bye, Tammy. Turns around and heads in the opposite direction that he came from.
Mallory: And it's finally nighttime.
Cody: It's finally night time. After what I can only assume would take 400, 500 days for all of this to transpire, it finally becomes nighttime. Oh, and because of Cramps, did you notice? No vampires in sight.
James: That's true.
Cody: Yeah.
James: That's why Pacey's allowed to walk around at night. He's safe, finally, thanks to Graham's.
Cody: The last time we saw Pacey before the scene, he was walking away from her house, so he just do a big loop.
James: I think he made it to the boardwalk and he was like, well, I got to get one more look at that house.
Cody: I got to watch her put the light out.
James: He turned around.
Mallory: He'S like, I left.
Cody: My flip flops at her house. I got to go back.
James: A condom fell out of my pocket. I'm going to need that later. And that's where the episode ends, which makes it feel unresolved in a way. Makes me wonder if that is the end of tomorrow on this show. What do you guys think? Are we ever going to see her again?
Mallory: I don't think so. I think it's the end of an era.
James: What about you? Still?
Stella: Yeah, um, I'm not going to say anything.
Cody: Oh, wow.
James: So that's confirmation. Okay, um, my theory is that she's going to be driving, like, season two or segment three.
Cody: She's going to come back with the kids. How do you know that?
Stella: I'm not saying anything.
Cody: Did you google?
Stella: I'm not saying anything.
Cody: You just had to know.
Stella: I don't know, man. I don't know anything.
James: Interesting. Well, shall we, uh, wrap this baby up and talk about our ratings?
Cody: Did you say that because this episode is called Baby? Let's say I did. Okay. God, you're so smart.
James: Did I mention I'm a genius? There's further evidence. Who wants to go first? I can't remember who went first last time.
Cody: I'll go first. I'm going to give this episode four out of five babies. Um, like, yeah, it's got a lot of issues. This episode doesn't really make sense in how long all these things take place, but, hey, uh, I'm just going to take it as it is. Face, uh, value, whatever. Who cares? The, um, sun sets six times in this episode. I don't mind it. Um, the plot beats. Like I said at the top of the episode, I loved it. Even though tomorrow sucks and that whole plot line was absolutely disgusting, I thought that the narrative arc was satisfying. Also, Pacey, I've hated him from the very start, but, um, I'm not going to say that what he did was noble, but at the same time, I, uh, feel like I'm seeing his arc. I'm seeing him change and learn from his mistakes. And hopefully this puts him on a trajectory for being the likable character that everyone says that he is. When everyone in the world says, Pace, he's my favorite Dolphin's Creek character because, uh, at this point, I thought that they were all insane. So, yeah, I thought this is pretty solid. And also, there was no Dawson, really, except for when he filmed that birth. So I really enjoyed this episode.
Stella: Um, okay. Giving it a four and a half out of five, uh, because overall, I thought it was a great app. I liked that the Pacey Ms. M. Jacobs stuff has come to an end. Um, I liked that the episode made me feel some genuine emotion. I liked the lack, uh, of Dawson.
Cody: Yeah.
Stella: Overall, thought it was a great app.
James: Wow.
Mallory: I will give it a 4.5 as well. Similar, um, reasons. The pacing was great. Um, happy that the Pacey Tamara saga is over and it, uh, was nice to see Dawson giving some good advice. Um, and I'm looking forward to the next chapter for Pacey.
James: Wow. Well, um, I hate to be a downer, but I'm giving this episode a two out of five. I actually fucking hated this episode for the most part. I thought it was absolute garbage. I did not need a religious sermon shoved on my throat. I didn't need most, uh, of this episode I really could have done without. I think my favorite part was the stoner in the bathroom making stoner noises and, uh, um, I hope that I never, ever have to. I think the silver lining on this episode is that I'm hoping I will never see tomorrow again. I know we're going to, but I hope we don't. Um, I will say the other silver lining, maybe is a crimson lining is that I have gotten so much vampire evidence, I think can we all agree it's irrefutable at this point in time?
Mallory: Absolutely.
James: Yeah. So on that, I will give it five stakes out of five, but two, uh, creeks, uh, out of five, um, for the actual episode. Yeah.
Cody: I feel like after that, I really need to reiterate, I do not like the content of this episode, but I like the plot beats. If we were to remove all of the things that make the beats happen, I am, um, invested in those beats. Everything that is involved in the religion, the pedophilia, uh, not for me. Bad. It's all bad. And Joey. I felt Joey.
James: Mhm.
Cody: I was touched by Joey's story.
James: I will say my first watch, I actually did really enjoy this episode. It really was on subsequent watches that my rating started to really tank on this one. Unlike the other episodes where actually, the more I watched it, the more I enjoyed it. This is the first time where I was just like, actually, it's making it worse for me. I am finding more things that I don't like the more I watch this episode.
Stella: Yeah, I don't know, I mean, I think about some of the I remember really not liking maybe like the second and third episode. Um, so I feel like the show is, at least for me, improving in some ways and I kind of wonder how our scale ratings will be impact your expectations might change. Um, who knows? The show could be amazing next season.
James: I'm really excited to see where it goes from here because I feel like just like you mentioned in our last scene, Stella, I believe it was that scene, we've kind of gotten through all of the shit at this point. We've gotten through this pedophilia arc. We've gotten all of the characters are now established. We're getting a lot more, um, forward momentum. And it feels like, though this episode, we did get quite a bit of exposition. We're getting less exposition than we have been previously. So maybe I'm optimistic that in our next episode and maybe for the remainder of this season, we'll actually get something fun. Maybe that's showing us where this show is going to go instead of continually treading over the same ground again and again and again as it has been for the last six episodes.
Mallory: And we're about in the middle of the season. I just checked those seasons.
Stella: Yeah, that was episode six. So we just watched it.
Cody: It's just like, it's so wild to me that this show is such a baby, uh, to us, because this show is well loved and well liked by fans. And we might not even know what this show is yet. I've mentioned a million times, but Gilmore Girls that season one is so different than the rest of that series where it gets like, really great. And so in retrospect, when you watch season one, you're like, this doesn't even feel like Gilmore Girls. Same thing with Star Trek The Next Generation. That's one of my favorite. Yes. Totally expelled.
James: Season one sucks nuts. Season two a little bit better by season four, though. It's kicking ass.
Cody: I don't know if I agree with.
James: That statement, but we have to find our other show, the X Creeks, um, and find out what we think about X Files.
Cody: Uh, yeah, just in general, all these shows start off pretty rocky and then they really fall into themselves, like, once they really know what they're doing. And, um, who knows? Season three, Dawson's Creek, is probably the greatest season of television, just in general.
Stella: So maybe I'm really excited. Um, I don't know if we want to talk about what the next episode is supposed to be about yet, but I think I had looked at the little episode summaries for the next couple. And as I mentioned when I was younger, I definitely watched bits and pieces and I have certain memories and I saw a couple of characters that I'd forgotten about that, um, I'm excited about. And I can't remember like, how prevalent they are, but I do think they have a bigger role than some of the cliff or whatever. Um, mhm. So I'm excited to see incorporation of new characters and how that's going to impact the four core people.
Cody: So these are new characters that you already know about?
Stella: Yeah, they have vague memories of, um.
Mallory: So it seems like actors that I like if you look up Dawson's because you see, like, actors listen, there are definitely some faces that I haven't seen yet, but that I think are more in the core group or become part of the group or outside the group. But they're there for a while. So I'm excited to meet some new people.
James: Well, shall we talk about our recommendations? I'll go first since I just went last. Um, my recommendation this week is a mobile game, um, for your phone. That's what a mobile device is. Um I know it's on iOS. It may be on Android as well. It's called super auto pets. It's incredible. It's really fun. Um, it's free, so everybody can play this. The premise is it's an idle battler. So what that means is, uh, basically you have five little pets that are like a snail or a turtle or a camel or a monkey. Each one will have a strength and a health, and they generally will have like, a ability or a power. That happens. And then so you build your team on each turn. Then you send them to battle. You don't do anything during the battle. They just do their thing. And then you get the results. And then on the next turn, you spend your money to upgrade your team or buy new pets for your team and replace the old ones. And, um, it's incredibly, incredibly addictive. It is the kind of game that is really easy to just kind of, like, play, um, in the background. My employer don't listen to this, but I am often playing it in zoom calls, um, because it's the perfect thing. I pay attention to it for about 5 seconds. I put my phone down, I let a battle happen. Next time I've got a couple of seconds, I look at it, I buy a banana or whatever, give it to a pet, feed them an apple. They get stronger or whatever, and then I send them to the next battle. And it's great. So super auto pets go look it up. It's great. You'll enjoy it. And if you don't, I fucking hate you.
Stella: I'm looking it up right now. And the animals look super cute.
James: Yeah, it's cute. It's got a very specific art style, um, that is kind of like kind of hand in my mind, I think, like Paper Mario style art. It's kind of like childish and whimsical. Um, and you can buy little cosmetics with ingame currency. So all of my pets wear little party hats. It is cute. I like it.
Mallory: I will go next. Um, I'm going to recommend escape rooms, something that we all need to do. We haven't done one in a while. Um, but if you enjoy puzzles and adventure, I highly recommend that listeners, wherever you are, go look up escape rooms in your area and go do one. You will not be disappointed if you're in Portland, I recommend Hour to Midnight.
James: They're great.
Mallory: Yeah. And james and I have started looking them up when we travel. Like if we travel somewhere, we'll look up an escape room in the area and it's always fun to do that if you're looking for something to do.
Stella: We were watching Jeopardy the other night and, um, one of the contestants, like one of his little facts was that he loves escape rooms and he said, uh, that he predicts the mates that he's done maybe like 50.
James: That's awesome.
Cody: Who's the last person on earth you would ever want to do an escape room with?
James: Dawson she'd just be like, well, why.
Cody: Don'T we pray that will help that solve the puzzle.
James: Oh, I can't look at this one.
Cody: She is a prayer that would be so infuriating because she would only rely on prayer and then the escape room would end and then she'd be like, well, it wasn't part of God's plan.
Stella: I'll go, um, I am going to recommend artist. Ah, musician, French, 79. Went and saw him live last night. Uh, it's like electronic dance music. Um, he is from France and, um, this is my first time seeing him. Um, I liked his music for a little bit and it was super fun. Um, he has at least a couple of albums. Um, but yeah, definitely recommend super. Like can be really chill, really fun. Take a listen.
James: I like that. Do you have a favorite album or song of theirs, man?
Stella: Um, I think my favorite song is probably hold on.
Cody: Um, is it a good Charlotte cover?
Stella: Um, I think probably Joshua is my favorite album. Yeah.
James: Awesome.
Cody: Is that his name now?
Stella: His name is Simon.
Cody: Who's Joshua?
Stella: Great question.
Cody: Two recommendations. First, uh, starts with a preamble. So just, uh as it was Betsy's choice to carry her pregnancy, determined it should be the right for all people capable of pregnancy to make that choice for themselves. As of this recording, the News League is about the Supreme Court wishing to overturn Roe versus Wade. We urge people to do everything in their power to fight this within their limits of their personal capabilities. Be that protesting, voting or donating to pro choice organizations, abortion is a human right and it must remain federally protected. For those in states that have trigger laws criminalizing abortion that will go in effective. Rose overturned the time to organize this. Now, if you're looking to donate, please look into the National Abortion Rights Action League, the National Network of Abortion Funds, the Women's Reproductive Rights Assistance Project, indigenous Women Rising National Abortion Federation, or the local pro choice nonprofit for you. Please do that.
Stella: Question. Uh, did you, um, plan to recommend this with the episode title being baby?
Cody: No. Uh, life happens and coincidences happen and just thought that would be a good opportunity time and who knows what the world will be like when this episode is even released. So who knows? My other one is a lighter one. Paramount. Uh, plus just premiered. Uh, the new Star Trek series. Star Trek. Strange new worlds. It takes place ten years before the original series. It follows Captain Pike una a young Ohura and Spock plus a new crew. And unlike the newer Star Trek shows, uh, this one is Episodic, like the original 60s series and the series. So it really feels like those shows, whereas, like, the new ones are more serialized in telling a longer story. This is an adventure every week and it really does feel like a mix of Star Trek, the original series, and The Next Generation. And every Thursday I am so excited for new episodes to premiere. I feel like a little kid again. It has been great. Cool.
Stella: You should see the smile on his face when he watches.
James: I bet it's really similar to the smile that he has on his face when he's talking about Dawson's Creek. His other favorite thing to do.
Cody: It's much better than Dawson's Creek.
James: All right, well, next week we are going to be talking about season one, episode seven, detention. The brewing conflicts among Dawson and his friends erupt during their detention. What a teaser of an episode description. Uh, that is I can't wait to find out more. What do you think is going to be the thing that causes them all to get into tension? You guys?
Mallory: Some sort of a fight?
James: I think if all four of them are in detention yeah, it seems like they have to be.
Cody: Okay, here's my prediction. Uh, please. I don't want to put money on it, but what I think is going to happen is Dawson and Cliff are going to get an argument over Helmets of Glory. It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while. Then everyone is going to start fighting each other over it and, uh, the gang has to go to detention.
Mallory: Breakfast Club.
Cody: Breakfast Club. Yeah.
Stella: I wonder if Pacey's detention will be, like, punishment for him. Like, quote, unquote, starting the rumors.
Mallory: I thought about that as well, but I wonder why whatever, it might be different. Yeah, or maybe that's part of whatever happens.
James: And actually, it's funny that you mentioned Breakfast Ah Club, because I believe that's the alternate title for this episode, which is fitting. Um, but yeah. Any final thoughts before we go for the week? Oh, here we go. Okay. All right. I'm going to go ahead and fix that one in post. All right. Thank you all so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please go ahead and subscribe to our show and join us as we continue to set sail through Dawson's Creek one episode at a time. If you want more Creek's content, please find us online at freaksandcreeekspod and feel free to get in touch with us us at ah. Freaksandcreeeks@gmail.com. See you next time on Freaksandcreeks.
Cody: Cannot film this bird.