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Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
This is Truly Independent. A show that demystifies the indie film journey by documenting the process of releasing independent films in theaters. Each week, Garrett Batty and I, Daren Smith, will update you on our journey, bring in guests to share their insights into the process and answer your questions. In today's episode, we introduce the podcast, share our bold goal for our theatrical release, and answer the questions, how do I successfully query producers and how do I find a distributor? This is episode 1 of Truly Independent.
Daren:We're here. Episode 1. Garrett, oh my gosh. It's so This is it. So good to be with you, man.
Garrett:We're doing it. It's good to see you.
Daren:You too. Always good to see you. Alright. So let's give the folks at home some context here. We're, like, 6 months out from an event that you've been hired to make successful.
Daren:You wanna tell us about that?
Garrett:Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if it's 6 months. I think it's a 138 days or something depending on whenever you're listening. But, yes, it is coming up on us quickly.
Garrett:So Darren, as you know, you and I made a film called The Carpenter. A couple of years ago, we shot this film in South Africa and the executive producer has been kinda keeping this film to to his family and his little group and recently reached out and said, we'd like to put this movie into theaters. It's always been our secret hope, that's always it's not a secret hope, it's a very, open desire that, hey, we're gonna make this for theaters. We hope it'll get to theaters, and we're thrilled that they have now said, okay. Go for it.
Garrett:Put it in theaters.
Daren:Yeah. It it's been an interesting, like, year and a half because we shot that in July, August of 2022, like you said, in Cape Town. And it was an interesting movie to come on to because you're like, this family is doing a movie and the kids are starring in it and the dad's financing it. We're like, Okay. I'm all in, and let's go.
Daren:And, like, 2 weeks later, we were flying to South Africa to do our location scout. And, yeah, it's kind of been that way since then too of, like, what what's going on with the Carpenter? I probably get asked that every month. When is that coming out? Is it coming out?
Daren:And that my my quest my answer has always been, you gotta talk to Garrett.
Garrett:I don't know. Yeah. Where where you get asked every month, I get asked every week. Uh-huh. Just because, you know, when I called you, I was already 7 years into the project with with the family, you know, writing the script and shooting the teaser and sizzle and then getting the funds put together.
Garrett:And so it has been an ordeal, but, it's been an adventure and and it continues, with this podcast and this theatrical release.
Daren:I think that's an interesting thing to highlight right there is this was a movie that was 7 years in the making. It's probably 9 years at this point or coming on 9 years that it's been from the very beginning, first phone call to, like, theatrical release. But you contrast that with the movie we shot last year, The Faith of Angels, which we got funded and we shot it, and now it's you know, it already premiered at a festival in February, so that was like a 6 month post production timeline. And we're prepping that for theatrical release as well. So it's important, I think, for the filmmakers in the room to see that not every movie happens in a year.
Daren:Like, some of them take close to a decade and some can can turn around in 18 months or a year and a half, which is the same number.
Garrett:It is. It's it is a it's a mystery and, I that's why I'm so excited honestly to to do this podcast with you and kind of explore this journey of releasing a movie into theaters or releasing movies into theaters and discussing each week the status of the industry, and comparing it to the current status of our project, like our progress as far as, you know, what are the steps to getting a movie into, you know, a nationwide release and, being really open and discovering this and pivoting when we need to pivot. It's gonna be a cool journey. I'm very excited about it.
Daren:Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about that though because it's an interesting decision. You've done, I think we counted 8 movies, 6 or 7 of them have been released theatrically. You've worked with distributors before. So why the decision this time to run point on it, to be the distribution company, the one running point, the one making all the decisions, handling the marketing, the strategy, and everything?
Daren:Why go that route this time when you and I, we have connections in the industry, we have even some interest from distributors? Why this decision this time around?
Garrett:Yeah. That's a good question. I think that with with the Carpenter and with any film, I I I'll I'll be real clear, there there's never it's never a one person job, you know, to say I am the distributor would be, misleading and and and, would be crazy to do that. With each of my films, I have taken point on making sure they get into theaters, but there is it's like a Avengers team, you know, Avengers Assemble. My my job has been to build a team who is most qualified to take that movie into theaters and whether that is signing an agreement with, Samuel Goldwyn and they can distribute the movie or hiring an independent distributor slash consultant, to Run Point.
Garrett:That's I think each film has its needs and has its audience and, which with each one is different. The reason, to answer your question, the reason that I am running point on this one is because the nature of this particular project has some pretty, there are unique circumstances with this project as there are with any project, but with the Carpenter we're dealing with, an executive producer who has funded the entire film, who is now funding the distribution of it and wants, to be very, this is his first experience with this and so I want to make sure that this experience that he gets what he's asking for and that we're not just signing it away to a distributor, but we're actually building a team that can take this movie to where it needs to be taken.
Daren:Yeah. The exciting thing for me is that I really strongly like, I teach this stuff. I talk about it all the time. But, like, taking responsibility for the outcomes in your business is such an important principle to follow. So a lot of filmmakers, for example, will raise the money for production and make the movie.
Daren:And that that's like their job. That's the entirety of what they feel like their responsibility is. And then, well, when the question comes, what's the plan for getting into the theaters? They're like, well, we're gonna do festivals. Well, we're gonna shop it around.
Daren:We'll make some calls. We'll see who who calls us. And there's a lot of hope involved in that strategy of, like, I hope it gets to a festival. I hope there's someone there who likes it. I hope that person works at a distribution company.
Daren:I hope they have money and room in their slate to acquire our movie, and we hope that that amount is for more than we paid to shoot the movie. It's like, man, you compound those things and the chances that happening are so small. And for me, it just doesn't it's it's never felt like a responsible strategy for getting a film into the world. Like, all of us, what we want is the experience of having people see the movie that we made. It's not just about making the movie.
Daren:As fun as that is, it's it it pales in comparison to sitting in a theater with 800 people who paid money to come see it. And you're experiencing it with them in a room, and they're laughing and they're gasping and holding their breath and they're crying. And my goodness. Nothing beats that. Like, I don't wanna just release a movie and put it on Netflix because I don't get to have that experience.
Daren:They're gonna watch it in their homes or on their phones on the subway. Like, that's I don't get to share in that. But it's not just the experience, but the idea that you've shown time and time again with taking responsibility for the outcome of getting into the theaters, making it a profitable experience so you can continue to make movies going forward, and you've done that time and time again. We're talking when was your first movie, 2009?
Garrett:2009 was my first movie. And and yeah. I mean, I don't take lightly that or or take for granted that we've been very fortunate to be able to to rinse and repeat the process. I think independent film is is a tough industry to be in, it's theatrical distribution is a an ever changing mystery and, and, yeah, I mean, you you look at the state of releasing I I guess I don't need to limit it to just independent film. I mean, you can click on Deadline right now and read an article about Kevin Costner, who's trying to find distribution for, Horizons and Francis Ford Coppola trying to find distribution for Megalopolis, these are movies with budgets over $100,000,000 and filmmakers, I mean essentially that have taken this independent model Kevin Costner and Francois Coppola to put their own money and time and effort and resources and mortgage their home or whatever it is sell their vineyard, so that they can fund these movies, and now they're screening them at festivals, you know, they're at cans right now and hoping for distribution.
Garrett:And I think that's what a fascinating model. So, we're all in this together, right? And it's a matter of just trying to figure out how to how to address these challenges that are associated with bridging the gap from making the movie to getting it in front of an audience.
Daren:Yeah. And to continue that thought, really, the way I see independent is non dependent. Like, if you're truly independent, which is the name of this show, it means that you're not relying on other people for the success of your project. So you're taking the responsibility to say, well, I'm gonna see this all the way through so that it's not only financially viable and it's, you know, our investors are happy, but again, so that we can do it again. And the more responsibility you take, not only do you have a better chance of it working out in your favor, but it's there's more profit to be had there, because every responsibility you take on yourself, that's another middle man or another company that you don't have to pay a fee to or split the profits with.
Daren:So it's actually a potentially, hopefully, ideally, a more profitable model as well doing it this way, approaching it this way. Have you thought about that? Is that part of the thought process of why you've made the decision to do it? Or is that, like, how just how my brain works and you're more pure creative?
Garrett:No. No. No. I think you're right on. I mean, we have to do this we do this as a business, this is how I've fed my family for the past 20 years, so, yeah, if I didn't consider profits or, you know, the business model of it, then that would be ignorant.
Garrett:I think there is irony in the word independent and and I feel like I am more dependent upon an audience and people responding than perhaps a filmmaker that gets a check from this from the studio and makes the film, and then the minute he delivers his cut, he's on to the next one. He or she's onto the next one, and so I'm a 100% dependent on an audience responding to this content. Yeah. And and and this addressing the the profitability, yes, where there is greater risk, there is greater reward. And so the the the risk is that, yes, we're gonna do this on our own and we'll there'll be a a learning curve or or at least an opportunity to readjust, what we've learned in the past.
Garrett:And, the the upside, it would be would be great because it it could potentially be great if, if what we're doing hits. But if it if it doesn't, then, you know, then, yeah, I have to own that loss as well.
Daren:Yeah. Alright. Our subtitle for the show is demystifying the indie film journey. So one thing I think we can demystify right up front is this idea of what it means to be a full time filmmaker. Both of us, you know, we talked about this before the show.
Daren:We know each we've known each other for a long time. You know, we're not working 8 hours, 10 hours a day on movies. Sometimes we're doing other things. And I think that was an important thing to demystify upfront is, like, we're independent filmmakers. Both of us, I think, pull in the majority of our income from working on films and film related projects.
Daren:But, like, you've also got another movie that's happening that we're working on. I've got a side business. You do directing. You do editing, you do consulting. Like you do all these things.
Daren:Can we talk a little bit about that and how sometimes when you get 2 white dudes in their forties talking about movies, it excludes some people because they feel like, well, I don't have all of the same benefits. And, yes, we're both dripping with privilege. So the question is, you know, are we have we made it, Garrett? Are we are we already there, or are we in the struggle as well?
Garrett:Yeah. I mean, that's that's a good question and I think that, you know, I think about the actors that I work with on independent films and they come and they I see them in an audition and then a callback and I get to think okay these are these are actors, these are working actors and then we cast them and they come on set for maybe 18 to 22 shooting days, maybe a week of prep and rehearsal and fittings and, how excited they are and they get to they these are working actors and you always say, okay, so what's your next gig? Where are you going to from here? And 99% of them say, I don't know or oh, I'm a I'm a I've got a I'm a realtor or my my my other job is this. And I think, okay, that is the nature, I think, of our business of independent film is saying, okay, how can we, yes, I work, I mean, 8 to 10 hours would be a luxury.
Garrett:I work 12 to 15 hours a day as a filmmaker, but that doesn't mean I'm on set. That means I am hustling and looking for the next gig or writing or working on my craft as an editor or pitching, developing storyboards or whatever it is And so you always have I've got 5 current projects right now plus 1, you know, a couple of side directing gigs that I'll be doing for, you know, a local TV series, that and I and my job is to keep all of those balls in the air, and and hopefully take 3 weeks off and make a movie or, you know, shoot a feature length sometime in the coming year. Yeah. Yeah.
Daren:I think it's important for people to realize the reality of it all. Like, full time can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. You know, I'm I probably consider myself if you're being if you're counting hours, it's probably more like part time that I'm working on films because I have other businesses and I have other things that I'm involved in. But I still consider my my main thing. When I tell people what I do, I'm an independent film producer, And that can mean a lot of different things.
Daren:And I think for those that are starting out or working on their first project, I my personal I'm curious your take on this, but my personal take is if you want to be a director, call yourself a director. If you wanna be a writer, call yourself a writer and identify yourself as such. And that identity carries a lot of weight to it because as soon as you identify as a director, as a writer, as an actor, you're gonna start doing the things that a writer or director or an actor would do. You would go to auditions. You would pitch projects.
Daren:You would rewrite your script for the 18th time. And if you're a producer, you're going to be networking and you're gonna be making calls and you're gonna be expanding, expanding your contacts and getting, all the different parts of the process lined up so you can do the next movie. And so call yourself that even though you maybe haven't done it yet. I know I called myself a producer the day that I left a video production company that I was running with a friend. I said, I'm an independent film producer, and it took 3 years to actually produce my first feature after 9 years before that trying to produce movies.
Daren:But I was a TV producer first, and I still called myself an independent film producer because that was the identity and that's how I wanted to show up every day, even if I wasn't on set. But, yeah, do you have a take on that, like calling yourself something before you've done it?
Garrett:I think that there's value in that. I think you have to visualize and and and envision yourself, doing the role that you want to do. I think that's that's fantastic. You certainly do need to be able to back it up. I went out I lived in LA for several years and worked as an editor, and, I realized nobody was going to hire me as an editor, until I believed I was an editor.
Garrett:Now I had to have the skill set to pick that up so that somebody, when they did hire me, that that, you know, I wasn't delusional or misrepresenting myself. But, you know, if you go in, you know, it's beginning beginning in any capacity, my daughter right now is is looking for jobs. She's applying as a graphic designer for somewhere. And she says, but I'm I'm not I'm not I've never been I've never worked as a graphic designer. So, understand.
Garrett:Let them know that that's fine. But do you have the skill set? Yes. Are you are you capable? Are you able to do what a graphic designer does?
Garrett:Yes. Then when you get asked what do you do? Oh, I'm looking for work as a graphic designer. And I think that that applies in the independent film world as well.
Daren:Yeah. It's you know, it maps pretty cleanly to what that what we all know, the hero's journey of, you know, getting a call to action or taking on an identity and then going through the challenge of, oh, I have this new identity of someone that has a problem to solve. And what am I gonna do? And how am I gonna figure this out? And at some point, if you keep trying long enough, you get this moment of clarity or a discovery where's where you go, oh, I think I know how to do this now.
Daren:I think I know how to get this result that I'm after. And you keep going, and you get that result. If you if you keep going and do more of what works and less of what doesn't, if you stick with it and have that kind of tenacity and resilience and you get resourceful, like, over time, that's how you and I have done it. That's how everyone else that I know that's still working in the industry 10, 15 years later. They just stuck with it and they kept going despite the challenges, despite what's happening in the industry or the economy or the world.
Daren:If, like, a COVID type thing happens, like we didn't abandon the identity. Well, oh, COVID happened, so I can't be a film producer anymore. Like, I went and made online courses. I think you dove into a couple of scripts
Garrett:Yeah.
Daren:And did some directing, and, like, we figured it out. We got resourceful and made it work. But there's something in interesting in there, which is again why, you know, this is kind of an intro episode. What are we doing here? And what's this all about?
Daren:And why would I care? Like, there's something exciting about there's a problem that we're trying to solve for ourselves. And if we can crack it, that means that we can help others with that problem as well. Yeah. It doesn't mean we're gonna set up Garrett and Darren Consulting LLC, start charging filmmakers money to you know, how did you guys do it?
Daren:No. We're doing it live. We're doing it in public through this podcast and saying, look, we're this is where we're going. This is the problem we've identified. We're going to go after it.
Daren:And the hope is that we can repeat the success in the future as we get better and better and better at it, but also that it kind of shines a light on a model that works for anyone else that wants to solve that same problem, which is how do you get your movie in front of the audience that wants it, and how do you grow that audience over time and, ideally, make that all very profitable?
Garrett:It's, yeah, it's a fun challenge, and I think that that that starts off with a clear goal. And so, Darren, this might I don't know if this is the moment of truth where we declare the goal for this movie, but it's, it's a scary thing to do. To set a goal and to charge forward with it is like, I mean, that that's the first step and sometimes the scariest.
Daren:Yeah. That's where the imposter syndrome creeps in, and that's where it's a bold thing. And what you're doing is stretching beyond your current experience. You're saying, I've done this in the past, so I know I can do that again. But the idea of expanding beyond that, even if it's just an inch, feels a little scary because you're stepping outside of your identity a little bit.
Daren:You're saying, well, I'm an indie film producer who's done 8 movies, and I've made, you know, I I think your biggest one, Sarata, approached it a little over 2,000,000 in theaters. I'm just like, okay. That's in the wheelhouse. That's that's something that is possible because you've done it before. But what's the goal for this?
Daren:Is it a top ten release? Is it a a monetary amount of or ticket sales? Like, what is it for you? I know it's a bold question, a bold statement, but I do think that's part of the excitement of this show is saying we're calling our shot a little bit, and we're gonna work toward it week after week. And if that's exciting to you as it is for us, just buckle up.
Garrett:Yeah. It's yeah. And I think in defining that goal, there has to be a measure of success. There has to be a a target that we're working towards so that at the end, you know, when we do the, last episode of this season of this podcast, we can say, hey, was did we hit or miss? And that was when, the the people behind the Carpenter, when they reached out and said, we'd like to put it into theaters or we'd like to release the movie, I had lengthy conversations with them to say, what does that look like to you?
Garrett:What is the goal? And I think that, I mean, there's the tip for independent filmmakers to say, I want distribution, that's all, that's great, that's great, that's a good term that we all know. What does that mean to you? What does that goal? So, for the carpenter, our discussion and our goal was they would like us to do a nationwide release.
Garrett:That doesn't necessarily mean wide release but they want in theaters across the country, it's not just in, their local town cinema. So that, it's a 600 plus screen release in the fall of 2025 And the result would be the goal would be to end up breaking into the top 10 box office on opening weekend. So there it is. That's that's the that's the audacious goal. You have to have the unbelievable, shoot for the stars, you know, and land on the moon, maybe.
Garrett:But there's no reason that we can't do that. People do this all the time. If you look at the top 10 movies from last weekend, and I guarantee you there will be a non studio independent film somewhere in that top ten.
Daren:Amazing. Oh, it gives me chills in the in the best way possible. So there it is. That's the journey we're on, folks, and we hope you'll join us. Now to end each episode, we're gonna answer some listener questions.
Daren:So we had 2 that came in for this inaugural very first episode. I got one and you got one, so let's start with this one from a reader or a listener. They haven't listened yet. So it's a friend of ours. How here's the question.
Daren:How do you query producers and others that you need to help you get your film made? So first of all, what's query? A query is where you send in, like, a pitch for yourself. I have a script. I have a film.
Daren:I'm an actor. I'm an editor. I'm a composer, And you want to get hired by people. Alright. Or you want them to attach themselves to your project or give you money for your project.
Daren:So they're saying, how do you do that successfully? And my answer is probably not what you would expect. My answer is don't.
Garrett:Okay.
Daren:And here's why. Here's why. I've never in my, what are we going on? 2006, 15 18 year career in this industry. I've never responded to, like, a cold query from someone and hired them.
Daren:Every single person I've hired and every single person that's hired me has either been someone I know and have worked with before, a friend, or, related to someone that I know or is a friend. Like, they are a friend of a friend. It's all network. It's always, hey, I'm looking for a producer. A friend of mine says, oh, I worked with Darren on my last project.
Daren:You should hire him. That's a 100% of the time. And so my suggestion, rather than spending time copy pasting a query letter and sending it to 1,000 or tens of thousands of people by LinkedIn DMs or finding the new projects on IMDB and emailing the person who posted the project on IMDB. Rather than doing that, it's to start forming relationships with people in the industry that can ultimately hire you. So, to quick story.
Daren:Like, the first movie I ever made was with Amy Redford. She hired me to be a line producer on her movie. I was the line producer UPM on her movie, what comes around. And people are like, how did you get that project? That's super cool because I kinda came out the gate as a line producer.
Daren:I did not come up through production. I was never a second AD, first AD, production manager. I never did any of those jobs. I came out the gate as a line producer. And people were like, what on earth?
Daren:Who is this guy and where did he come from? I said, well, you think about it this way. The year before that, I worked with Amy on a documentary project for Intermountain Health, which is a local, like, health care company, like the biggest hospital system here in Utah. We did a big project for them, and I was the producer on that project. So I have already worked with Amy.
Daren:She'd know she knew me. She liked me. She trusted me. Saw that I had the skill set. 6 months before that, or maybe it was 8 months before that, for Amy's business partner, I produced a TV pilot.
Daren:And so that's how I met Amy, was through her business partner. And 2 years before that, that business partner was a a Patreon supporter of a little YouTube web series political web series that we did in 2016. So, like, it the reason that I was able to produce Amy's movie in 2021, you trace that all the way back to 2016, 5 years earlier, where I had made a contact, delivered value for people, and started a relationship. And that relationship over 5 years ended up in producing a movie. And so it didn't come from a query letter.
Daren:Didn't come from a, a cold message on LinkedIn or Instagram or email. It's all relationships, folks. That's my answer. Like go out and find the people that you wanna work with and start forming relationships with them, and that's the way to get your project to the next level.
Garrett:Nice. Great. Good advice and and, yeah, it's awesome to your experience and your history has led you to to through the to that experience and and now, beyond. So that's fun to hear that. And we'll be sharing stories, throughout the entire experience and and, hopefully, they they will be helpful to everybody on their journey regardless of what stage you are at.
Garrett:Let's see, my question was, how do I get a distributor? Which I love this question and I've asked it a 1000000 times and I think it's a very common question for any independent filmmaker, and there is a much longer answer to that than than that it I guess that involves lots of follow-up questions, and and honestly, that's what we hope to address this entire series is how do you get a distributor and, and the short answer that it may sound curt is that's not the right question. For an independent filmmaker to say how do I get a distributor, I understand that we want that validation, we want somebody who's experienced in distributing movies to look at our content and say I want that, which is great. But I would ask any independent filmmaker just like Kevin Costner and Francis Ford Coppola, they say we want a distributor and say what you want, not that I'm telling them what they want, is an audience. How do I get an audience?
Garrett:And I think that's what this podcast and this journey will demystify is how do we keep working as independent filmmakers, and the solution is to have an audience that wants what we're making.
Daren:That 100% agree with that. Alright, folks. We did it. Episode 1 in the can as they say. Probably haven't said it in a long time.
Daren:At least I haven't done a movie on film in a long time. But here we are.
Garrett:Thank you. Yeah. This is I'm I'm looking forward to this, and, we will see you guys next week.
Daren:Thank you for listening to this episode of Truly Independent. To join us on the journey, be notified of new episodes and screenings, and ask us questions about today's episode, head over to 3coinpro.com/podcast, and put in your name and an email address. If you're a fan of the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast app, and be sure to share this episode with a friend. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. Our intro and outro music is Election Time by Kjartan Evel.