The Good Wife: Season 5, Episode 15 - Dramatics, Your Honor

Will Gardner is dead. The Good Wife Season 5, Episode 15, Dramatics Your Honor, delivers one of the most shocking moments in network television history. What starts as a courthouse procedural - Will defending client Jeffrey Grant on a DNA murder charge, Alicia enduring a hostile deposition with investigator Dubeck, Diane and Kalinda doing what they do - ends with a single gunshot that breaks the whole show open. Jeffrey Grant, panicked and misreading the moment, grabs an unholstered gun in the courtroom. Will is found at the hospital, already gone, alone in a curtained room. Kalinda and Diane are the ones who find him. Alicia gets the news mid-dinner from Eli. Will Gardner is gone. Nothing is the same.

00:00 - Marissa and Jason react before the recap even starts - the Traumatics Your Honor pod is in session
09:37 - Episode breakdown begins - Previously On, Jeffrey Grant case setup, and who this guy even is
13:00 - The trial gets underway and Will works every angle of the touch DNA argument
28:42 - Alicia's voluntary deposition with Dubeck turns hostile and she holds her own
47:33 - Will and Kalinda share a drink and a rare, real conversation about leaving
1:00:01 - Jeffrey spots the unholstered gun - the moment everything changes
1:05:29 - The hospital. Kalinda finds Will behind a curtain. Will is gone.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jason Reed

I’m a simple guy with simple interests. Pop Culture, Tv, Movies, Comics. Constantly chasing that nostalgia dragon. Podcaster talking Married At First Sight on A Perfect Match and The Good Wife verse on The Good Pod.

Host

Marissa Garza

MTv never told me the Real World would be like this // podcaster, consultant, and tv watcher

What is The Good Pod?

Calling all fans of courtroom intrigue and complex characters! Join us each week as we dive deep into the gripping world of "The Good Wife," "The Good Fight", "Elsbeth," and the entire legal drama universe created by Robert and Michelle King. Jason Reed and Marissa Garza, break down each episode, unpack intricate plot lines, and analyze the moral dilemmas faced by Alicia Florrick, Diane Lockheart, Elsbeth Tascioni, and their colleagues. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to these addictive shows, you'll gain fresh insights and catch details you might have missed.

welcome to the good pod um we're here

today to cover the good wife season five

episode fifteen dramatics your honor this

uh this was surely dramatic um i'm one

of your hosts jason reed sorry hold on

oh god

With me, as always, it's my co-host,

Marissa Garza.

Marissa, I don't even know why I'm asking,

you good?

I mean, no, I'm not good, Jason.

Are you good?

No, I'm terrible.

I'm bad.

I'm not good.

We're like traumatics, your honor.

Oh, the traumatic pod, the sad pod,

the crying pod.

well well i just want to be like

you know that that grieving person at the

at the funeral just throwing their body

over the casket not well why did it

have to be well well you just said

that my grandma like did that at her

father's funeral like she threw herself on

a casket i was like that's where i

get it from the dramatics sometimes

yeah yeah i know jason jason was really

trying to hold this in last episode

everyone i don't know i was trying to

give you i was trying to give you

all like a soft warning i didn't want

to spoil anything but just the fact that

i knew this was coming up and like

i've unfortunately like i couldn't help

myself but to find where it was i

was like i know it's coming up

I need to know.

And I was looking at episode descriptions.

And I was looking at the script for

next episode.

I was like, oh, okay.

So it's, it's fifteen.

Like, that's... It's fifteen.

That's what it is.

Fifteen out of twenty?

So... Yeah.

I've just been, I've just been, like,

for the last, you know,

four or so episodes,

I've known exactly when it was.

So it's just, like,

I need to prepare the audience and prepare

myself without spoiling things.

And I just...

Yeah.

I'm proud of you for not watching ahead,

unless you did,

and then I take it back.

No, at the total opposite of that.

I tried to put it off for as

long as I could.

I didn't watch it until today,

until an hour ago.

Because usually what happens is,

we'll do the podcast,

and I'm so excited about the next episode,

and I'll go back upstairs,

and I'll watch the next episode.

I did not do that last week.

I was like, I just...

I knew what it was,

and then actually watching the episode,

I was just so... It was nerve-wracking,

because my memory of it was that it

happened early in the... Yeah,

we should say what it is.

I don't think we've said... Well,

Will's dead.

Will was shot and killed.

Will was shot and killed, okay?

Will is no more.

Will, at least in the show.

Unmercifully gunned down...

in the courtroom yes and my memory of

it was that it happened early in the

episode and then there was a lot of

you know reaction and there's a lot of

like things happening but like in the

actuality of watching it it took so long

i was like oh my god they're not

gonna do this till like close to the

end of the episode like that's not how

i remembered it and so like we were

going about like and i could you know

i could see like people watching the

episode in the past just being like oh

you know

Another episode.

Beep bop, beep bop, beep bop.

And, you know, for those that don't know,

for those that are watching it the first

time and are rewatching and watching with

us, the podcast, like,

I know you felt that too.

It was just like, what just happened?

What?

What?

What do you mean?

Because this was a shock to everyone.

This was a shock in the real time.

this yeah like okay this was definitely

the time of network tv so this was

a week by week thing so yes like

this is just like another episode of the

good wife also there was like an

entertainment media machine um but it was

a lot different than it was not like

josh charles didn't have twitter

you know uh like he probably did he

probably may have but i mean like it

wasn't so it's the early two thousands um

like but like i guess what i'm trying

to say is like the machine was different

it was very like like we did not

know this was happening we did not know

like sometimes you know you'll hear of a

rumored exit from a show before

you actually see it.

And that did not happen during this time.

This,

this was a huge shock and definitely like,

it's something that shapes the rest of

this series and the one to come after

it.

And we're going to talk a lot about

this.

Like, just so you know, everyone,

we're going to talk about it today.

We're going to talk about it in the

next episode.

And then we also are going to basically

have like a will to,

grieving moment.

We're working on bonus coverage to bring

to you guys to dive a little deeper

into this and just talk about the makings

of it and how it affects things.

We are working on having someone...

I don't want to get your hopes up.

Not someone from the show or anything like

that.

But...

I would be dead if Josh Charles was

going to be on the show.

Marissa,

if I was just punking you and Josh

Charles showed up on stream,

I don't know if you would hug me

or kill me.

Not that,

but we are working on finding someone to

come talk to us.

It's in the works.

What do they call it?

If this actually doesn't happen,

don't blame me.

It's a

that basically like i was like i don't

know yeah we're working on it like we

have something set up but like don't blame

me if it doesn't come like yeah like

yeah things can change i just like this

is gonna take us a while to navigate

yeah yeah because like part of the the

reason like josh charles is such like a

presence on the show and drove so much

of the inner or like the beginning

spirit of the show,

the beginning vibe of the show,

the beginning plot of the show.

And so, you know,

having this end the way that it ends

that we'll talk about today is going to

take us,

we're just going to need some time.

So we're giving ourselves and you some

extra time to kind of do this out.

But as you'll see when we talk about

this episode,

this episode kind of just ends.

So we're going to pick that back up

with our coverage of the next episode to

kind of get the characters closure on it.

And then we'll

we'll tie it all together with some bonus

coverage.

Whatever that ends up being, everyone.

Will Gardner and Josh Charles is just a

foundational part of this show.

And we've done so much with him in

the Good Wife journey that

they can't help but have this be a

huge turning point in the show.

Whether it turns things for good or for

bad, we'll see,

but it's quite a turning point,

as we'll get into in our future coverage

of the show for the rest of the

series, for the next series,

and we'll get into how,

because everything cascades off of this

one moment.

right um so let's uh let's get some

housekeeping in and then we'll start we'll

we'll kind of dive into the episode and

get into more of our feelings as we

go along um so if you want to

help this show out and help us thrive

help us stay alive unlike will garner

unfortunately

um you can do all those things by

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wherever you are watching and are

listening there's a way to help us out

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eyes and ears of more people that would

be interested in content like this

If you want to just chop it up

with us about the show,

you can hit us up at thegoodpodfeedback at

gmail.com to give us your thoughts on Will

leaving, on the big death here,

how this impacts things.

Actually,

we would love to hear from you guys

for our bonus coverage to get some of

your input.

Yes, that would be so good.

Yeah,

and you can do that by writing us

at thegoodpodfeedback at gmail.com,

as I said earlier,

and writing us on Spotify.

However you want to get your...

input and feedback to us we'd love to

have it for that for that uh bonus

coverage we have just to get your thoughts

and feelings on this momentous occasion

we're a community like let's grieve

together so whatever you gotta whatever

you gotta say about anything up until this

point please do send it over and we'll

put it together uh for maybe like a

collective like yeah eulogy of sorts

yeah we want to hear your thoughts we

want to hear your memories of that time

and how you were feeling at the time

how you're feeling re-watching it um so

yeah we would love to hear from you

in time for our kind of special bonus

coverage talking about this momentous

occasion in the good wife's history um if

you want to help us out monetarily you

can also do that going to buymeacoffee.com

good pod to uh donate these sums small

and large we we love the large but

also love the sum the small too so

uh hit that up if you so choose

uh yeah with that being said marissa

we've put it off long enough let's get

into this thing oh okay all right this

episode starts with the previously on i'm

going to talk a little bit about what

they show us and then i also want

to set some previously on things that kind

of will help us talk through this this

episode

So the previous scene that we see has

Marilyn doing her angry walk down the hall

with Will behind her as they go talk

to Peter about the fact that Will's

testimony could really hurt Peter.

We see the video being shown eighty

gazillion times.

We see the conversation between Eli and

Jim Moody.

We see Peter telling Will I'm not owning

this decision.

So this is like very a lot of

like Peter and the tape type of

build up here and then at the end

we get this very little like uh yeah

and that danny little john murkett jeff

jeffrey grant's here too guys jeffrey

grant right you might want to remember

that you might want to study up on

it because it might be important this

episode we don't know we're just saying

it's like like and if you didn't know

this is gonna be a momentous occasion the

fact that there's a previously on attack

at the beginning of this is like what's

uh what's up what's going on here is

that usually especially in this show it

denotes importance because it's like okay

this is gonna be a big episode apparently

we're doing a previously on

And I remember, Jason,

when Jeffrey Grant showed up the first

time before, like, off the pod,

you were like, oh, boy, it's that guy.

That bitch.

That bitch Jeffrey Grant.

That asshole.

That dick Jeffrey Grant.

Here he is.

Because, like, I just have such, like,

you know, I used to watch the show.

He was on Weeds.

Like, Silas on Weeds.

Like, love the guy on Weeds.

Like, he was cool.

He was a bad boy.

All this good stuff.

And then after I see him on here,

I hate you so much.

You're the bait of my existence.

And so like seeing him pop up in

that episode, which was, you know, early,

kind of early in the season was just

like, oh, I can just start.

That's when things really started to rub

up for me in terms of like, oh,

it's coming.

Like it's it's it's a portender of things

to come.

Yeah,

because he didn't show up in the first

episode of the season,

but it was quite early, right?

It was right after...

Was it right after the split between...

I think so, yeah.

Because the situation was that he is the

son of a LG client.

And he was the one... Like, he...

He was caught.

He called in because he was in trouble.

And this is how Will got originally got

attached to this case.

And honestly, like we see him.

We last see Jeffrey Grant in jail,

like saying he will he's not going to

plead guilty.

He's going to go to trial.

But we don't necessarily see like Will

tells him it's going to be a while.

It's going to take a while.

But I'm in your corner.

I'm going to be here.

all this other stuff happens we never see

this guy again like we never even hear

like a hey i was talking to jeffrey

grant like any updates on the case at

all until this moment i think we got

one though i think we did get one

We did?

I think there was some mention in an

episode, a couple episodes before.

It was like, oh yeah,

because my ears are perked for Jeffrey

Grant.

I'm like, oh, okay.

So I think something was mentioned,

but no,

we didn't check back in with Jeffrey

Grant.

This is the only time after that we're

checking back in with him.

And yeah, because from my memory,

this was an Alicia case.

And Jeffrey was trying to call for Alicia.

And that was in the air.

It was like,

if anyone calls here for Alicia,

you give them right to me.

And that's how Will got attached to this.

This wasn't Will's case.

This was Alicia's case, which I'm sure.

Oh, there's some things in here also.

So let's put that on the Alicia list

right now.

Yeah.

um okay so we open up we are

in court there is definitely like a

montage we know that we know the routine

by now right there's opening statements

there's things going on uh jeff is like

very nervous he's so nervous that from the

perspective of us we are not hearing

anything we're just like hearing more

false sounds he's looking around the room

we've got a song playing and it's will

that kind of like takes jeffrey out of

this and says hey we're gonna be okay

Like, it's okay.

But Jeffrey is nervous.

And we see that the prosecution is setting

up their case.

The prosecution is being led by Mr.

Palmar, who I know as Downton Dude.

Yeah.

Downton Dude.

Was Downton before or after this?

As a history major,

I am horrible with time.

I think it was probably before,

or concurrent, maybe.

Maybe concurrent.

Yeah, because this is Matthew Goode,

known to many from Downton Abbey.

I wasn't a Downton Abbey watcher at all,

so I don't know.

Also from A Discovery of Witches,

more currently,

that is his most more current reference.

So yeah, Matthew Goode's here.

Matthew is good.

It was fun to see him and Will

kind of go back and forth.

And you can kind of see that they

are friendly with each other this entire

time.

There's some history here.

There's history here because at a certain

point, Will brings some evidence.

He's like,

I have this book here that Mr.

Paul Marr gave me a long time ago.

So they have a history.

They know each other.

They know each other.

And the prosecution is setting up

this case to lean hard on the DNA

evidence.

If you don't remember,

there was DNA found under Danny's

fingernails that belongs to Jeffrey.

So this is like the whole case.

This is all of it.

Prosecution is saying that he raped and

then killed her and everything is hinging

on this DNA under the fingernails.

They were members of that same B plus

club,

which we learned about in the last episode

in which we saw Jeffrey Grant that was

led by a professor who was a suspect

in this case for a very long time.

um and basically jeffrey's only alibi here

is that he was sleeping in his dorm

room and no one saw him so that's

the prosecution side of things on the

defense will saying dna evidence is not

that reliable like you know we shed so

many different like so many skin cells a

day that like even if i just touch

this railing and then you touch this

railing we could have transferred dna i

was like oh josh charles oh do you

want to transfer dna um oh my god

i was

That was the closest I would get.

That was the closest I would get.

Anyway.

Spicy Marissa.

Love Island season.

As far as, you know,

this being Will Gardner's last ever case

that he's going to argue and that,

you know,

I think he did a great job.

He did all the Josh Charles things.

He put on all the Josh Charles,

Will Gardner tricks, right?

He's like, he's having fun with the jury.

He's like, look, I touched this.

I left some trace evidence over here.

So that could have happened in this case.

It's like, yeah, I, you know,

he did great.

And he also,

there's like this unspoken to the jury

rule in the courtroom that you cannot name

the math professor in this at all.

So he's like, hey,

so they were part of this club that

was run by

A professor person saying who was also and

also they arrested the wrong man.

I'm not saying that these are the same

people,

but these are things that are happening.

And the judge is kind of on him

for this.

But Will is doing his Will dance of,

you know,

making sure he knows what's going on.

Yeah, he's, like, riding that fine line,

as Will likes to do, of, like, oh,

what can I get away with?

What can I say?

That'll, like, tip the jury off that,

you know, this might be, like,

not all on the up and up.

There might be some other stuff going on

here.

And then Judge, who's, you know,

Judge No Nonsense that we've seen several

times.

We've got a couple of Judge No Nonsense.

This is, like, this is Mr. Regular Guy.

This is Mr. Joe Blow, Mr.

Blue Collar Judge.

He's, like, hey, hey, hey, cut it out.

Cut it out over there.

Like, you know,

you're not going to do that here today,

Mr. Gardner, okay?

Yeah, he's like, no, no, no.

We're going to recess for lunch.

And you can tell, like,

Jeffrey is super nervous.

Like, he's still looking around.

And Will goes down and is like, hey,

this is a marathon, not a sprint.

This is, like, what I told you.

And he is like, they think I'm guilty.

And Will's like, yeah,

because they're going to have to until...

We get these experts on the stand until

we're able to do this.

This is just part of the game.

Again,

just want to mention just for the framing

of this entire thing,

that this is a rich white boy.

Just saying, just in case.

In case you wanted to look at a

system larger than what you're looking at

on television.

anyway go to alicia who is looking around

florida goes just like oh my god look

at this look at what we built look

what i built i'm so cool i'm so

amazing i'm amazing aren't they amazing

look at this in hindsight we should have

been like something's off here because

alicia is super happy like she's so happy

like we know her world's about to crash

down because she's she's happy right now

it's like it's like oh my gosh she's

like as she's seeing the hustle and bustle

and her new law of hers like look

at this

Look at what we did, Carrie.

We're the father and mother of this.

This didn't exist six months ago.

It's like, oh, we got a real firm.

It's like, oh, you're so happy now.

You stupid little instant Alicia.

You're going to be just so crushed in

a matter of forty-two minutes.

And I would also say that this was

a regular episode of the show,

but also it was a little disjointed.

Case in point in this situation.

She's just like, hey,

look at how wonderful.

Thank you, Carrie.

Thank you for making me do this.

And Carrie's like, hey, by the way,

I'm sleeping with Colinda.

And I'm like, what?

And then there's this really awkward

conversation where Alicia's like,

but I thought she was gay.

first of all like not like i acknowledge

the fact that i haven't talked to a

kalinda in like eight hundred years or

whatever and then carrie goes she's bi or

whatever and i just oh man first of

all happy pride everyone second of all um

Like this was just so like,

like just disconnected for me.

It kind of took me out of the

moment of like,

look at everything we've built.

And then, oh my gosh,

let's like not understand gay people.

Like I don't know.

This is shaking and saying, like...

No bi erasure.

We do not accept bi erasure over here,

y'all.

What are you doing?

Like,

it's just funny how sometimes this show

will just, like,

slap you in the face of being like,

hey, remember, this is twenty fourteen.

You know, like, bi or something.

It's like, I know that that is...

That was the sentiment at the time.

I think that in itself might be a

sentiment of the Kings to be like,

look how stupid these people are.

Because I think to write that in a

script, it's not what we feel,

but it's what a lot of people feel

about my people in this time and moment

of where the show is.

Because a lot of people are not just

like,

they're not relevant or up to date on

lifestyle and things like that.

The span of TV,

we have not had the Schitt's Creek.

I like the label and not the or

I like the wine and not the label

conversation.

Like we haven't had other examples of like

Kalinda was in basically for a very long

time,

at least on television when it comes to.

a gay person, a gay woman,

and then a bi woman.

And it shows how, not how sheltered,

but how just in their own world that

Alicia is to be like,

I thought she was gay.

Like, no, no.

Being bisexual is a thing.

And for Carrie to kind of mock it

a little bit by being like, you know,

bi or whatever.

It's just like,

it's not a great look for these two,

but it's not what people in

thinking right it would not have gotten

picked up by the audience in the time

like they would have unless you were gay

or bi like yeah like this is something

that this is something that in is what

you have villains say right of of a

tv show this is dialogue of a villain

but in it's dialogue of a new of

a new world right and these people are

not caught up in the new world

Right, yes, good point.

I feel like the Kings making Kalinda who

Kalinda is is proof that the Kings are

up on the world,

but I think they're also holding a mirror

up to their characters and saying these

characters are not up on the world.

Yeah,

and also doing that in the constraints of

being on a network television show.

There's just so much,

so many pieces you can move in that

situation.

These characters are a little behind the

times, right?

Because these are two straight

white characters that just are not that

they're not that into looking outside of

themselves to like to to know about new

experiences and carrie is dating kalinda

and he's still like yeah or something or

whatever yeah you know how badly i wanted

grace to come home and be like hey

mom

I got something to tell you.

Yeah, that, if we were,

if we had a season, you know,

twenty-four of this show in

twenty-twenty-six,

I think that might be a thing, but,

you know, we're not, we're not,

we weren't there yet,

but it was quite fascinating to be like,

oh, like,

to have that be the conversation,

and for a conversation to happen in this

way, like,

for Alicia to come to Carrie and be

like, oh my god,

thank you so much for doing this,

and for Carrie to be like, well,

I guess this is as good a time

as any to, like,

to drop this ball on you.

Well,

it basically also out Kalinda to Alicia,

who apparently is still her friend.

I'm thinking like, because...

yeah for for the from alicia's viewpoint

of kalinda how does she not already know

that exactly like you you should have

picked up on that because kalinda is the

we already know that kalinda is a like

um is a like all-around flirter she's very

fluid flirter right this was like i think

it probably should have known but okay

whatever it was it was a small moment

of this episode but it just said so

much about the show and where it was

in the in the time period it was

in

so we we are we are like devoting

some time to this but just because like

that was that was interesting isn't it yes

agreed agreed and then again the

disjointedness so we get oh my gosh look

at how much we've accomplished cool it is

by oh here's mr dubeck like well and

also when they say this they're like you

think this is how willing to ban talk

oh my god

i forgot who said it did carrie say

that or alicia say that because if carrie

said it then it's definitely no i think

i think carrie said it and then alicia

said all we need to scotch and carrie's

like i'll go get some oh yeah so

that that tracks to carrie is obsessed

about you know being the new will and

diane he talks about not stop so it

makes sense he would bring that up so

it's just like for them to like like

oh look at us aren't we just like

will and diane like oh my gosh give

it a rest

Oh boy.

Well, and here comes Mr. Dubeck.

He is still on the case and he

is coming here to talk to Alicia.

And Alicia, I gotta tell you,

Alicia has no Fs with this man.

Has like no time.

She is very hostile towards him and is

like polite, but not in a way.

She's like, yeah, sure.

I'll talk to you.

But hey, call me.

She tells someone in the office to call

this phone in five minutes and tell her

that it has an important call right in

front of Nelson Dubeck.

And basically what Nelson's coming here to

say is like, hey, Will's ready to testify.

I advise you to get on the record

before him.

I advise you to do a voluntary deposition.

And Alicia's like, you advise me?

And he's like, yeah, no, I really do.

Because Will's going to say this stuff and

it would be good if it's just like,

I will consider it or whatever.

I don't know if Titus Welliver was busy

at this point, but I would have,

instead of Nelson Dubek,

I would have loved for this to be

Glenn Childs.

Because this is basically Glenn Childs'

two-point-oh,

where he has this hard-on for Peter.

He's after Peter, wants Peter for...

seemingly personal reasons.

Like, yes, it is his job,

but also it seems very personal.

So I think it would have been so

much better if this had been Glenn Childs.

Like, I mean, listen, it's a middle-aged,

gray-haired man.

Like, I think, you know,

it's pretty much another Glenn Childs.

And I like,

because Alicia had to deal with Glenn

Childs, you know, back in the day.

You know, it was Glenn Childs,

and then it was Matthew Perry's character.

I forgot Matthew Perry's character.

Mike something.

Mike something.

k yep mike with a k uh so

she's she's this is old hat for her

now she's used to people coming after

peter and coming after her to get to

peter and i think she's sick of it

and i think with that comes a era

of confidence an era of like i don't

have time for this which i don't know

if she recognizes that this might be a

little bit different

We don't know as we continue to go

on.

Sorry, Mike Kristeva.

See, what's the K?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So in court,

we have the Emmy on the stand and

the prosecution is basically getting him

to say that the DNA underneath the

fingernails of Danny was fake.

from Jeffrey Grant.

It was no one else's,

and also it was of a quantity that

is consistent with a defensive struggle.

This isn't a, like, I touch the railing,

you touch the railing type of DNA

transfer.

There's, like,

enough under her nails that she was, like,

scratching him in some way.

At this point,

Kalinda comes in with some photos,

and Will's like, this is great,

thank you so much.

And then she also says, hey,

I need to talk to you later.

I was like, okay, like,

what is this going to be about?

um so basically then we have the

conversation about touch dna and we figure

out we find out like that we shed

over forty thousand skin cells and um it

can be transferred from object to object

specifically in a like cloth covered book

from like the library and this is where

he's using the book um that was given

to him by the essay yeah

And the photos that Kalinda brought in is

Danny checking out a book from the

library.

And it just so turns out that everyone

in the sociology class had to use the

same book.

So basically,

Will's argument is that Jeffrey checked

out the book before that.

So...

couldn't danny got some dna underneath her

fingernails if she checked it out after

him i mean he's like yeah she'd have

to do like a lot of things for

that to happen basically and was like but

it's possible right like it's possible

he's just he's like this is like it's

a reasonable doubt that's all we need

exactly like will is going for the the

minimum viable doubt here

So Alicia gets in the car and talks

to Eli about the deposition.

She's like, I think I should do this,

mainly because it'll give us an

opportunity to figure out what Dubeck is

going to be asking Will.

Because Eli's really nervous that Will's

going to testify and that she's like,

listen,

I'd be in control here if I were

to be able to listen to the questions

and do all this stuff.

And I have a lawyer,

and his name's Cary Agos.

And Eli's like, Cary, are you sure?

I was like, Eli,

why are we doubting Carrie?

The man is a partner in a law

firm.

He's like, why would you ask Carrie?

Like, okay.

Why are you shitting on Carrie, sir?

All right, cool.

Who else would it be?

Who else does she have available,

to be honest with you?

You want Zeps to do it?

We haven't seen Zeps in, like,

ten episodes.

I don't know where that guy went.

But, like, who else would she get?

She's not going to ask Diane.

She's not going to ask Will.

right so I was like okay Eli whatever

bro I I do wonder because we'll like

we'll talk a little bit more about Will

and this like due back stuff and they

didn't I thought they would maybe clear

this up before this episode ended maybe

they will later did Will actually agree to

testify or is this like a due back

you know this is a due back play

yeah I really think that that's what it

is because we didn't get an affirmative or

we gotta we'll think about it from Elspeth

and Will in the car

like and but and i don't know what

the time is because when he they left

they said you have to give us an

answer so if forty eight hours have passed

i'm assuming because they're well i don't

know they have time traveled from new york

to chicago quite quickly in the past yeah

um so like it's at least it might

be twenty four hours afterwards and dubik

is leveraging this to say like hey

I got Will in my back pocket and

also then using Alicia's doing this

deposition to get Will to like to pressure

Will at the same time.

It's unclear, but from our knowledge,

he has not said yes.

just wonder if in the next episode or

like either like in the future for like

maybe the next time we see elspeth of

like oh i heard we're gonna you know

testify against peter's like oh no he was

never gonna do that like because it is

a little bit of a of a betrayal

in a way right of will yes and

you know yes alicia betrayed will we saw

will was very hesitant to you

Go after Peter and we said we said

yes,

it is the whole client attorney thing but

deep down will still wants to protect

Alicia so it's like.

Did will actually agree to do this,

or was this more do back posturing I

wish would have gotten more of a

affirmative or on that I maybe will have

a future I don't know,

but I was just interested in wondering

that.

Yeah, no, good point.

Back in court,

the medical examiner is back on the stand.

The questioning here by the prosecution is

like,

is there anything that would kind of like

eliminate touch DNA from being

transmitted?

Is there anything here that a person could

do?

Maybe wash their hands or exfoliate in

some way to get rid of skin cells.

He's like, yeah, that's exactly right.

Or chlorine would also be a way to

do it.

And this was...

this was matthew good's way of getting

back at will because he's like oh i

have a photo let me show you this

photo and it's danny who went swimming in

a chlorine pool after she picked up the

book from the library so any d the

the thinking here is that any dna that

would have come from the book would have

been washed off in the pool

So, therefore,

the fact that there was that much DNA

under her fingernails is consistent with a

defensive struggle.

Like, again,

we're trying to tell you that there was

some sort of struggle between these two

people.

This is not looking good for our team.

And so, Kalinda's like, okay,

I got to go get more evidence.

I mean, it basically is showing that, yes,

there was some encounter between Danny and

Jeffrey.

We don't know.

So, yeah, we got to figure it out.

Yes.

Then we see Will back at LG.

This is like the most involved Will has

been in a case in a very long

time.

He's got the Charlie Day situation

happening.

He's got all of this stuff going on.

There's stuff on the wall.

He's leading the team.

He's talking about the timeline.

And Diana's watching this from afar.

This is like...

This is where I also wish we had

gotten some sort of resolution on these

two characters before this moment.

Because yes, they were like,

they're good or whatever,

and they're working.

But Diane was still very skeptical of Will

bringing on Damien,

who we haven't seen in forever.

And Will's like expansion of LG.

So like,

I didn't know if they were on good

footing or not,

but we do see this moment where Diane

is like admiring Will from afar in his,

and not in a like sexual way,

but in a lawyer's mind.

And also seeing like,

maybe he's getting back to normal or maybe

not.

Like she's still kind of,

trying to figure that out well i think

she's she's trying to like plunder into

will be like will like you are because

at this point i think everybody but will

is like but he did it right like

yes yeah like yeah like why like why

aren't you seeing the forest in the trees

well like this man obviously killed killed

this girl and why are you like not

even questions that like why are we

putting so many resources on this why do

we have eight associates on this like for

a obvious loser of a case

Yeah,

and the only thing that we really have

is that maybe they crossed at the

hospital,

even though there's no record of Danny

being at the hospital,

because apparently Jeffrey had an injury

which brought him to the hospital.

And Will brings that up.

Will's like, maybe the hospital, maybe?

He's reaching.

He's reaching at this point.

He's reaching.

And so the directive here is to find

out what Danny did between swimming and

dying, basically.

Yeah,

where she and Jeffrey could have crossed

paths that would have, you know,

resulted in her getting his DNA under his

fingernails.

I love the Diane will, you know,

back and forth.

He's like trying to convince her, like,

listen, I have not lost my objectivity.

I have not lost my perspective.

Like, I know what I'm doing.

I got this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

well and that's why I think it was

interesting so like going into the scene I

was like oh my where is Diane and

Will on this is like she is like

admiring him from afar and everything and

then once she gets in the room she's

like eight associates really is that

really what we want to do and you're

rebuilding the case like from the

beginning and so it was nice to see

her still have like that check in this

moment and and she's she's cautiously

supportive here she's like okay you know

like

maybe we could do something with the

earlier suspect but she gets concerned

when she hears that there was a plea

of eight years that was rejected and this

is like something that i think she would

expect will to kind of get over the

finish line like to get

you know, accepted by the client.

But it hadn't happened.

And we'll still trying to kind of like

make this happen.

And he's like, listen, listen, Diane,

the court, like the jury,

they were all in on touch DNA.

All we got to do is figure out

the time in which this could have

happened.

I haven't, like you said,

I haven't lost my way.

I'm not, I'm playing it safe.

I'm focused.

And she's like, okay, well,

let me know if there's anything I could

do.

I have to go work on this case

with pharmaceutical CEOs.

And which, you know,

I don't know why we need it,

but okay.

I know we need it to place her

where she is later,

but like it could have been anyone.

Yeah, I mean, looking back at it,

it's like, hey,

we're going to be in the court at

the same time.

Like, to know what's coming is like, oh,

okay, yeah,

we're setting that up real early.

Okay, cool.

And I love how Kalinda, like,

they dismiss everyone except Kalinda.

And Kalinda is trying to have this

summertime.

Like, no, Kalinda, you stay.

You stay.

It's like the kid.

Like, the kid.

I don't want to watch mommy and daddy

fight.

I just want to go to my room

and listen to my, like,

CD player at full blast.

I don't want to hear mommy and daddy

fighting.

Like, no, you stay.

Like, you're good.

Stay here.

at the same time then diane sees that

the parents jeffrey grant's parents are

like looking worried and are on the phone

so she asks will hey are the parents

good he's like yeah yeah they're good cut

to alicia being on the phone with mr

grant basically who is asking her for a

second opinion on the case and alicia's

like listen you're in the middle of the

case it's not the best time to get

a second opinion also will's the top

litigator you're in good hands like here's

like what the

are you saying this for and and at

least just like i'm just trying to make

it better i guess like that conversation

in the coffee shop really kind of like

changed course for her a little bit she's

like okay we can be friendly enemies or

like friendly competitors but i'm not

gonna i'm not gonna screw him over yeah

also will's about to die so he needs

to make things good

yeah i was like okay uh the alicia

of two episodes ago would have swooped in

to try and steal jeffrey grant and now

like there's just really kind of like

really something about face where yes

there was a little setup of this in

the episode prior but just like okay this

this is too far and like i i

like you know there is a little bit

of a check there of care being like

bruh like

That's weird.

Why are you doing that for?

Yeah, but I don't think it's enough.

This is where it's really hard for me

to believe that this is the send-off.

And I don't know if they're doing this

to...

I know we're looking at this with a

very different view than the people who

watched it originally.

I don't know if they're doing this as

a red herring type of situation.

I don't know what it is, but...

Like,

they were going to murder each other,

like, at some point.

Or have sex.

Like,

this is how it was going to go

one way or another.

And then all of a sudden it's like...

I mean,

they came to a kind of a,

you know, uneasy, uneasy truce.

But a truce is not an alliance.

This is more of an alliance.

It was like, no,

I'm not going to take your case.

You're good with Will.

Whereas, like, you know, not long ago,

it would have been like, yes,

come over to Floricox.

We're going to steal you right under Will.

So it's like, yeah, yeah.

It was weird.

I understand the compulsion to make it in

this instance of where Will's about to

die,

so we want to make sure that Will

and Alicia are good.

They went to a lot of lengths to

make sure that we got that.

They are parting on okay terms.

Alicia is doing what Alicia does in this

episode.

But we got to make sure Alicia's good.

We got to make sure Alicia's on the

side of goodness in this episode.

Did you, though?

Like, did you, though?

Like, could she have, like,

kind of gone to bed mad?

Could she have still been mad at Will

and still be emotionally charged?

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, I think, like, I don't know.

It just kind of bothered me because I

feel like...

the characters of will and alicia deserved

more than what they got in terms of

this ending and also uh like will as

a character in terms of like his ending

here didn't necessarily get closure on

some of the stuff it was it just

a little disjointed for me i think i

think the kings would tell you in real

life we don't always get closure no yeah

no i agree yeah i but i but

i'm just saying like and i know that

the the way that he dies is sudden

and everything it just

I don't know.

It felt too cute by half a little

bit.

So I think that's what we're feeling here.

They're doing a lot to kind of wedge

in this last minute kind of like, oh,

things are good.

Things are okay between Alicia and Will

right now.

So don't feel bad that they don't get

a perfect ending.

Well, things are okay with Alicia,

but we don't necessarily know if things

are okay with Will until we see a

little bit later.

In the meantime,

Alicia asked Carrie to represent her with

Dubek and was like, you sure?

I was like, yeah.

Wouldn't you want me to be your lawyer?

And he's like, no.

And then she's like, okay,

I got to go to court.

And Carrie's like, why?

I was like, I got to warn Will,

basically.

And I was like,

She didn't say that to him in the

moment.

He's like,

you want to give your second opinion?

She's like, bye.

In the meantime,

Kalinda goes to campus and finds out that

after swimming,

she went to go get a coffee before

she died.

And so Danny was at the court or

at a coffee shop around five thirty.

This is great news for Will.

Will is like, again,

trying to find any string he can pull

to kind of make this happen.

Goes over to Jeffrey and says, hey,

we're in a coffee shop around five thirty.

And Jeffrey's like,

I might have been.

I don't know.

Before Jeffrey answers what goes in,

before you answer,

I need you to have been there.

I need you to really think if you

were at this coffee shop.

Really think about it.

Wink, wink.

Really think about if you were at this

coffee shop that I'm about to ask you

if you were at.

Just think about it real hard.

Yeah.

yeah like basically he's saying i need you

to be here so that we can say

that you two met and had contact and

the touch dna thing happened and he's like

oh i guess i could say i might

have been um and we also see that

jeffrey has like new bruises on his face

and all of this stuff and will's like

oh do you want me to like talk

to the judge like we got to get

you out of the situation and jeffrey's

like don't put me in solitary i'll kill

myself in solitary

like okay like what's going on over there

and this is all before court starts and

then

the door opens and Alicia walks in and

Will's like, what the frick is going on?

Like, why is she here?

So they get the detective on the stand

and the prosecution basically gets them to

say that basically Jeffrey could get out

of his dorm because there was a door

that was propped open with a chair.

Like this is,

this is how he was able to get

out to commit the murder.

There's also like no witnesses to his

alibi of that he was sleeping.

So we really don't,

that's pretty cut and dry case for me

is what the detective's saying and will's

like okay but why did it take you

like a year to get to my client

like why did it take a year for

the arrest to happen um and this again

reminding the audience that he cannot say

anything he cannot meme

the math professor by name so he got

the detective to say that he was pursuing

another person this gets the judge to talk

to will and say like i don't really

like this but i'll let you continue and

the detective then names the professor on

the stand so this is like this is

pure will gardner one oh one of like

i'm not gonna say it let somebody else

say it

And so now that the detective has named

the professor in court, we'll then do it.

But now we can bring them in.

Yep.

Opens up the door.

So Will sees Alicia and is like,

what the frick is happening?

What's going on?

Why are you here?

And she's like, well,

the group called for a second opinion.

I just really wanted to let you know.

And he's like, why?

Why are you here?

She's like, I decided to warn you.

Given all of our differences,

you're the better lawyer.

And he's like, I am, aren't I?

And she says, am all the more humble.

Yeah.

and then they both kind of like you

know give a little laugh and you know

it's a joyful moment for the two of

them uh will give some long full looks

after alicia's leaving he looks after her

he's like yeah

This is what we didn't know at the

time.

It would be their last moment together.

That we know of.

There's always room for flashbacks.

I have no idea.

I have no idea.

I would probably say this is their last

moment.

It probably was.

At least it ends in a positive,

pleasant note and tone.

It could have been worse.

It could have been scratching each other's

eyes out.

I think it was positive.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, I just, I think,

I know they had that conversation last

episode.

I don't know.

I just...

You don't think there's enough work done

to make them good.

Yes.

Like, how did we get here?

How did this happen?

Will goes and calls out the grads.

He's like, listen, do not do this.

Do not go for a second opinion.

If you want one, tell me.

Like, do you want to make a change?

They're like, no, you were just scared.

So Dr. Delaney, who is the math professor,

is on the stand.

And he says that there's no way that

these two people didn't know each other.

Jeffrey Grant was in the B plus club.

Danny was in the B plus club.

They knew each other.

And when this is said in court,

Jeffrey says,

that's such a lie under his breath.

And the judge is like, yo, no talking.

Yeah, Jeremy sounded like mini,

little mini outbursts.

A little bit, little bit.

And also, Dr.

Delaney says that he was questioned by the

police because he was the last person to

have seen Danny before she died.

But he does have an alibi that he

was with his ex-wife at the time.

So that's his testimony up until this

point.

Kalinda is questioning the barista of the

coffee shop.

And he's basically like, yeah, no,

Danny didn't come inside.

Danny was outside.

And someone brought her a coffee,

but she didn't come inside.

And she's like, did you see this person,

Jeffrey?

Like, no.

But I could, like,

lie if you want me to, like,

say that that's who I saw.

Like, I could do that.

And she's like, no.

So she calls Will and tells him.

Will is upset.

Like, this is bad.

Will throws some paper.

And at the same time, Jeffrey is just,

like, lurking in the back.

Like,

I don't know why he was able to

see this,

but he was able to do this.

I think he was being taken back to

like holding or whatever after they

recess.

So he's like he's like being led away

by the cop.

And like he's looking back at Will and

sees Will reacting poorly,

like very poorly,

like throwing stuff poorly to what Clinton

just told him.

And I think that shows Jeff like, oh,

I'm in trouble.

Like this is over.

Yeah.

Guilty, which, you know,

spurns a lot of what's going to happen

next.

Will and Kalinda meet for drinks.

Kalinda brings him up to speed and is

like, hey,

I reviewed the security footage.

As the barista says,

Jeffrey kind of did this, Will.

I'm pretty sure it was him.

And was like, no,

I think I'm not giving up.

We've got to figure this out.

That murder weapon was AT pounds.

Can you find out if the doctor thinks

that he could have thrown that after his

injury?

We are scraping the bottom of the barrel

of possible evidence here.

And then they have a conversation to

follow up with what Kalinda had asked Will

about in court.

He's like, what's up with you?

And Kalinda,

not out of the blue because she does

this often, is like,

how long would it take to replace me?

And Will and Kalinda have this

conversation basically that's different

than all of the other times.

they've had this conversation because

usually we'll,

we'll just like blow this off.

But here she's like, he's like,

what is this about?

You can't quit this.

Like, this is who we are.

This is what we do.

You live for that feeling when you figure

something out and you have to stay.

There's not too many people I like left.

And I don't know, like,

if this conversation, like,

what was the impetus for Kalinda?

Because Kalinda's like,

I don't want to leave.

I want to do something different.

And Will's like, what, farm?

What do you want to do?

Like, you can't.

This is who you are.

And I honestly didn't know it was making

Kalinda ask this question.

Like,

I don't know where she was going to

go.

I don't know if it had to do

with Carrie.

I had no clue.

Yeah.

Because I initially thought when she said

she had to tell Will something,

I thought she was going to do what

Carrie did earlier and disclose the

relationship.

Being like, hey,

me and Carrie are banging and hanging,

so I don't know how it's going to

affect things.

But she's like, this isn't like,

and this didn't feel like the other times

where a lot of times it's angling for

more money or more power or whatever for

Kalinda.

It's more of like a...

She's questioning her place.

She's questioning what she's doing in

life.

She's like,

I don't want to be doing this for

the next twenty years of my life.

I want to do something else.

She doesn't know what something is,

but she wants to be doing something else.

She doesn't want to be an investigator for

the rest of her life, being shady,

doing all these things.

She doesn't want that.

And, you know,

for him to have a criticism,

it's just kind of like,

where did this come from?

Right.

Very much out of the blue.

It felt like we did this just to

get this conversation with Will for,

you know,

him and Kalinda to have this moment,

which I... Yeah,

Will and Kalinda have had... Like,

this doesn't feel... This feels earned.

Like,

this feels like a real conversation

because we've seen this heart-to-heart

between Will and Kalinda several times.

Will and Kalinda are very close.

So it's just like...

I wish they would have set that up

better to have Clinda doubting herself,

maybe have a conversation with Carrie

before this about doubting herself so that

we know that's her mindset.

But this just really came out of nowhere

and it really felt like it was an

opportunity for Will to give a pep talk,

right, before he did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And to like,

because it comes up later as well of

like this thing,

like this coaching moment between the two

of them.

And also,

I don't know if because I'm reading so

much into the Alicia

Colinda schism of the show but during this

entire thing

Will asks, is it about Alicia?

And Kalinda goes, is it what?

Huh?

Is it who?

Why would it be about Alicia?

Like what's going on?

But yeah,

like it just felt like a very contrived

moment for me of like, let's get this.

This is where my criticism comes from.

Cause I know that like,

I'm all for like a sudden surprise,

not like ending in this point,

but like at the same time, I just,

didn't feel some of these things were tied

up as they yeah it it you would

imagine instead of this being like a huge

build up of you know all the creators

and all the things knowing that this

moment was coming it kind of felt like

a let's cram some stuff in here before

before it was done

yeah and i would rather them not do

that at all and have it just be

like a normal moment and then have the

the event happen as opposed to having

these like weird like i'm gonna longingly

look at alicia or i'm gonna have this

pep talk with kalinda or i'm gonna you

know what i mean like these moments i

would rather subtract those from the from

the equation and just have the situation

and i think it would have done the

character even better because he was so

into the case and he was so doing

all all of this stuff

Well,

it could have been an instance where the

kings are kind of stuck between a rock

and a hard place, right?

They don't want to tip off the fact

this is coming.

Because I think if we had had all

these goodbye moments for Will, like,

in the lead up to this like in

the episodes previous we would have like

kind of known something was up and like

is will leaving because it almost feels

like when you're watching survivor and

like you hear like these like moments in

the edit where they're like you know this

experience is really talking like oh

they're getting voted off but it's like

you know instead of giving this long

runway where we would have been tipped off

like oh is will leaving the show what's

happening and and also we don't want to

just kind of

not give you any closure so they're kind

of stuck in this middle ground of like

what do we do and i think this

was the compromise of like let's give

these like

opportunities for us to showcase the

relationships between Will and Kalinda and

give Will and Alicia this last moment of

joy and kind of pseudo-happiness so that

you don't feel that bad about Will and

Alicia not being around for each other.

So was it handled the best?

I mean, probably not,

but I feel like they were in kind

of a tight spot.

Well, no, yeah, I'm not saying, and this,

as much as I pretend to be able

to write a TV show, like,

I am not...

I am not a TV writer.

So, you know,

just this is just from a TV watchers

perspective.

Yeah, for sure.

So it is time for the volunteer

deposition.

And let me tell you,

this is a hostile.

It is a hostile situation.

We've got everyone comes in.

And Tribeca's like,

and we're here for the deposition.

Kira's like, voluntary deposition.

Like, yes, voluntary deposition.

I'm going to record this.

Kira's like, cool.

I'm going to record this, too.

We're all recording.

Okay, great.

It's time to go.

And the first question is,

did you discuss this with anyone else?

And Alicia says, Eli, my husband,

the governor of Illinois...

Peter Florek and Carrie.

And he asks,

did you discuss this with Will?

And she says, no.

And he says, well,

you were observed talking to Will in the

courtroom yesterday.

And this is, like, Alicia is, like,

observed.

How long have I been observed?

And we find out she's been observed for...

hours.

And she tells him,

I was telling him about the second

opinion.

Basically,

this goes back and forth for some time,

but what comes out of this is that

there are three different tapes of three

different boxes coming out of Anne.

And that's new to Alicia.

She didn't know about that.

Also,

the way that the angle here that is

being taken is

alicia is being pinned as mr gardner's

lover during this and carrie's like what

does this have to do with anything and

alicia is like listen i have i know

one thing here because i have been the

subject or attached to so many

investigations with my husband but the

moment it gets personal the moment it's

brought up that something about me and

will it means that you're losing and she's

like super confident

she is she's just like you are losing

Mr.

Dubeck and Dubeck's like okay well what

about this what about these votes what

about and she's like oh I didn't know

about that it doesn't matter because Peter

didn't know right like it doesn't matter

who knew because Peter didn't know and

Carrie's like okay we gotta go

we're gonna go here and and dupac ends

this by saying okay once will testifies

the dominoes will fall alicia so if you're

if you know something now's the time she's

like i gotta go to a correspondence dinner

bye

yeah because dubeck pulls this like out of

his out of nowhere it's like oh like

we didn't know at least you didn't know

no one else knew about these other tapes

except for you back and dubeck is pulling

it out now he's like hey this wasn't

just about these three thousand votes that

you at one time wanted to throw out

in one time didn't this is a much

bigger conspiracy we have tapes read three

other precincts of false of you know false

votes being brought in so it's just like

Yeah,

this is a lot bigger than you thought

it was.

And at this moment...

to put it in survivor terms,

Will is a shield for Alicia.

Alicia is the attorney on record,

but also so is Will in this moment

for this.

So Will is kind of the shield for

this to land on anything on Alicia's blame

or anything like this until they start

talking or whatever.

So she feels really good.

She feels really confident coming out of

this until she sees these tapes.

yeah and in the fact like i to

talk more about like the due back bringing

up you and you mr gardner are lovers

correct it's like whoa like it's it's so

funny before that he's like you guys share

everything don't you like a bed like trace

evidence like trace dna

yeah um and it's it's it's so funny

whenever in this show in particular

someone brings this fact out of like it's

the worst kept secret around but when

someone says it plainly and out loud it's

still kind of like a gasp moment it's

like oh you dared say we were all

thinking like oh my god and you know

carrie doesn't lose a step he's like

what's that do with anything is this is

this like yeah they were begging we all

knew that like

They didn't hide it very well.

We all knew they were banging.

No one cares.

It's still just like a, how dare you,

sir, say this thing out loud.

So that's how the deposition goes.

Kalinda goes to the hospital to follow

Will's lead of let's find out if he

could have thrown this eighteen pound

weapon.

The doctor says yeah he could have thrown

it but it would have hurt.

And while she's like working in the

hospital the doctor just throws him out.

I treated Danny too at some point.

And Kalinda's like

you did and then she sees that a

patient is put on a bed and again

with this whole like trace dna thing she's

like hey was there ever a moment where

danny was put on the same bed that

jeffrey was on at any time the doctor's

like no we change these sheets all the

time obviously we would want to

But hey,

check with those paramedics because they

might not change sheets.

So go talk to those people.

It was the same paramedic, apparently,

that brought in both Danny and Jeffrey

Grant.

So I was like, okay, that's something.

And Kalinda verifies that the sheet in the

ambulance was never changed.

gross and he will like the the emt

will testify this is great well it's like

fantastic we just need a few hours and

then he says in the most cheesy thing

he could ever say to kalinda kalinda this

is why i can't leave

This was not the most exciting thing that

Kalinda has ever figured out in her entire

life.

It kind of fell into her lap.

I was like, what?

What is this?

It kind of fell into her lap, right?

She didn't have to do anything over the

top to get this information.

Robin could have done this.

Oh, boy.

So Will goes and tells Jeffrey the news.

He is more beat up than he was

the last time.

Well,

he doesn't really tell Jeffrey the news.

He's just like, hey,

we got some good news.

We have good news.

Yes, exactly.

I think if Will had said, hey,

we have a smoking gun here.

I'm about to drop a bomb on everybody.

We're about to go free, my man.

I think that would have changed a lot

of things.

Yes, agreed.

we've got good news we've got Jeffrey more

beat up than he was before and then

he's called Will calls for a sidebar so

he goes and tells the judge hey I've

got this new piece of evidence and also

let me because before Will goes to because

it's very important in terms of like

what's going to happen I don't know why

Will decided to do this in this moment

because he goes like hey like I'm going

to talk to the judge because being a

solitaire is better than this

and oh yeah that's right that's really

like what kind of sets jeffrey off because

jeffrey told will i don't want to be

a solitary confinement if i'm in if you

put me a solitary confinement i will kill

myself oh it's like all bets are off

now because will's now going to instead of

jeffrey well yeah tell the judge about

this new evidence he thinks we're gonna go

tell the judge he's gonna put in the

solitary confinement so it's just like

panic time

yes yeah you're you're right that is

important to mention jeffrey's perspective

of the situation because we see we'll go

talk about this new evidence but what the

evidence is and how it can impact the

case was never told to jeffrey and so

he's seeing this as following up on going

into solitary yes

so will goes calls the sidebar says he's

got a new piece of evidence needs an

over overnight recess uh this is where we

get the title because uh matthew goode

says dramatics your honor like this is so

dramatic i cannot believe we're doing this

and then we see beffrey's eyes are darting

all over the place

He is looking at the jury.

He is looking at Will.

He is looking at his parents.

He is looking at the exit.

He is looking at the door behind the

judge.

He's looking everywhere.

And his eyes land on an unholstered gun.

A gun is in the holster,

but the holster lock is not on it.

Which, Jason,

did it remind you of anything?

Yes, it should have, right?

Yes, it should have.

what what please remind me in elspeth in

the episode with david cross yes that had

an unlocked holstered gun and it brought

was brought up in terms of the fact

that he like doesn't think that his

grandfather like the cop's grandfather

would be proud of him or whatever like

because he messed up because what happened

was david cross used that gun to like

hold up take people hostage yeah

So I was like, oh, interesting.

But yes,

Jeffrey sees this as an opportunity.

Jeffrey's also looking at Will and Finn

and the judge.

And Will, Finn,

and the judge are laughing for some

reason.

Which is also like...

yeah also in this in jeffrey's like

already disturbed mindset probably is not

not good as well so and we know

like at this point i'm like okay it's

gonna happen but i did not expect for

it to happen this way so uh diane's

in court she's doing her like drug ceo

blah blah blah blah and then and this

is like literally thirty seconds after we

see jeffrey have like eyes on the gun

She does her blah, blah, blah,

and then gunshot.

Gunshot.

And everyone freaks out, obviously,

as you would.

Diane is, like,

she just knows in her gut something's up.

She doesn't follow the directions like

everybody else does.

Kalinda's in the hallway,

she ends up calling nine-one-one.

Diane goes out of her courtroom,

finds Kalinda, she's like, Will's court,

and Kalinda's like, yeah, I know.

Kalinda rushes over to where Will's

courtroom is.

The cops, of course,

who all know Kalinda because that's her

whole thing,

Or like, Kalinda, don't go in there.

There could be more than one shooter.

Don't go in there.

The scene that we see is there's blood

on the floor.

We see two feet,

one with a shoe on,

one without a shoe on.

We see a hand go up to wave

that somebody is...

alive.

Like,

we don't have a lot of information in

terms of who is who at this point.

Kalinda keeps focusing on the shoe that is

missing because we see a shoe in the

hall or in the aisle.

And then we also see the foot without

the shoe.

can't help herself she goes in there um

she does see that jeffrey is sitting on

the stairs trying to kill himself with the

gun the gun is out of bullets he's

unable to do this and then he does

or she does find will in finn's lap

basically and he's like he needs help

Losing blood.

I thought there was going to be a

last minute will declaration to Kalinda.

Yeah, like, totally should I love her?

Yeah, something, anything.

Like, you know, but he's gasping.

Oh, it's for the law.

Yeah, he is in bad shape.

Yeah, bad shape.

He's in real bad shape.

I did... And then... Okay,

we'll talk about it in a minute.

Okay, so then they go to...

Let's talk a little bit about what I

thought was... I thought, like,

in my mind, I was like, yeah,

there's this whole thing where, you know,

Jeffrey shoots Will.

I just...

I didn't remember that it all happened

kind of offscreen.

I was like, oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Or even, like... Because I know...

Because I know Will, obviously.

I know that Will would try to talk

Jeffrey down.

Yeah.

And we didn't see that,

which I don't know if we really needed.

But you know what I mean?

I'm trying to put together what's going on

in that room.

The next thing we see is in the

hospital.

Colette and Diane are the only two people

that know at this point.

And they are the two people that are

at the hospital.

They run into Finn.

Finn is in bad shape.

He's got his arm in a sling.

He's got cuts on his face.

And they're like, not, hey, how are you?

Are you okay?

are you doing all right no their first

question is where's will they're like of

course i mean like i know i don't

care about you where my friend at i

mean there's a panic situation bleeding

anyway like where's will so as like i

don't know i took him over there so

they go and they walk next to this

room and are waiting next to this room

but kalinda sees this man leave a

curtained area

Well,

and what's funny is because we see they're

in this like almost like, I guess,

an ER room where people are working on

someone.

You can hear them go,

you're going to be all right, buddy.

And so like it's it's such a mind

after the audience, because, you know,

we're thinking at this point,

I think the audience is thinking like,

wow, this is crazy.

Will's been shot.

But it's going to be okay, right?

Because it's Will.

Josh Charles, it's Will.

He's a big part of the show.

This was scary,

but Will's going to be okay, right?

This can't be.

Will's not, I mean, come on.

Will's not dead.

It's like they're going to kill.

Then Kalinda,

because she's Kalinda and has Kalinda

sense, looks over to this like,

just solitary room with the curtain.

It's not even its own room.

It's just a space with the curtain closed.

She sees an investigator come out and say

to somebody like, yeah,

those are the victims from the courtroom.

So she has this like, oh my God,

she has this realization and walks over

there.

Yeah, and I think like,

I wasn't thinking this was going to be

the end when we first watched it.

And she sees this person come out and

she sees the foot without the shoe on

it.

And so we are... Well, actually,

I think she sees the shoe first.

Yeah.

And then the person come out and Diane

is like, we got to call someone.

We got to call the people like,

and then should we call Alicia?

Like this is before we know he's dead,

dead.

Like the, the calls, like, she's like,

I got to call his sister.

And because we think like, she's,

he's going to be okay.

Right.

Like, it's like, okay, like we're,

we have information now.

Like let's,

let's call a sister let's call alicia and

they look at each other and they're like

yeah we should call alicia and then

kalinda sees the foot and she sees the

person and it's just like oh okay and

i mean this man is dead like like

and it's it's so sad because will is

alone will is by himself and

no one's working on him he'd been dead

he's been dead for a while he can't

be saved like he's just in a room

dead by himself and then for like uh

talk about talk about crushing to see

kalinda like go into that room and pull

back that that cheat and then just for

her yeah

will and then diane comes like oh my

god like it's man and like it's so

interesting to me that will was found like

by kalinda and diane like the two people

that i the only two people that are

left really at lg that are it's julius

that we never see but um i mean

listen that the the core group of the

good wife of that season one good wife

you know uh alicia

Carrie, Diane, Will, and Kalinda,

like these are the two people closest to

Will right now.

Yeah, exactly.

From that group,

from that foundational group.

So it's fitting that they had this moment

with him because it's kind of what,

you know,

it's kind of where they are in the

story.

Where it's just like,

these are the two people closest to Will

in the moment.

And like to see Kalinda break, I mean,

it's powerful because we almost never see

Kalinda.

like and to see her break down like

this like like will like just yeah and

diana's um crying and they say he doesn't

look like himself i mean i just i

don't i don't know if i didn't like

i don't know if i would have that

like capacity to like

stay like if i came into a room

and discovered my dead friend like i don't

know how you're gonna sit there and be

like he doesn't like himself like i'd be

like i can't oh no but that's like

the thing that like people to i think

it's like a coping mechanism i think it's

something because like i think when people

look at a dead body and say it

doesn't look like that person i think it's

them saying like having trouble realizing

that that person is the same person that

they know is dead yeah

I get that.

But I think it might,

I think my reaction would be like,

if I saw a mouse,

I might be like, Oh, my God, like,

I gotta leave the room.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I can't.

I can't, like,

being at a funeral is one thing you're

able to pay yourself that you're able to,

like,

mentally build yourself up to the fact

like,

I'm going to go see my dead loved

one in a casket right now.

But then to be like,

freshly find your friend dead.

Like,

I don't know if I could do that.

Stay in that room and look at them.

Yeah.

Enough to be like,

he doesn't look the same.

But they're just like, oh,

he doesn't look like himself.

Like, I could do that.

then kalinda says i have to get alicia

so we cut to the most obnoxious comic

at the correspondence dinner or luncheon

or whatever and um kalinda is trying to

call alicia and alicia has her phone in

her purse she doesn't see the call she

doesn't pick up the call because obviously

why would she talk to kalinda

uh and then eli call or kalinda calls

eli and eli first ignores the first call

or dismisses the first call and then picks

up the second one he's like kalinda she's

at the correspondent dinner like what do

you want and kalinda's like i need to

talk to alicia she's like why like she's

on the dais like she cannot be bothered

and he's just like

Will's dead so I need to talk to

Alicia and he's like okay he goes over

and gets Alicia's attention and Alicia's

like now I have to take this phone

call now and he's like yeah you have

to take this phone call now and we

see her say hello and that's it

Yeah.

Kudos to Alan Cumming for sure,

because he played that, you know,

so with the news,

he played that so well of like the

sorrow, like the sorrow in his voice,

the look in his eyes, like, Alicia,

you need to come over here.

Like he understands the moment, you know,

so that's interesting.

It's a small thing,

but it's like he played it exactly right

of just delivering this horrible,

devastating news and getting Alicia to the

phone.

So kudos him for that.

I did not remember it ended like this.

The episode ended like this.

Like I said earlier,

I felt like in the moments remembering it

that we had more fallout.

We had more reaction.

Do you think it was a double episode

thing?

That's a good question.

I don't.

How they used to do that?

I don't think so,

because I did a little bit of looking

online about what the conversation was,

and they really just talked about this

episode.

So I don't think it was.

But I think it's probably just our memory

playing tricks on us.

We thought there was more to it than

there was.

But as much as this was a devastating

episode,

as much as this was a huge moment,

i think the next episode is even that

much more like big well yeah because like

we mentioned like this was kind of like

the run-of-the-mill type of like

everyone's doing kind of stuff like not

not in the episode structure or episode

quality or any of that but like for

our characters they were just going about

their days if you would stop the episode

ten minutes early

And like, well,

I just assume everything's going to be

fine.

Like, it's just, you know,

it's a normal everyday run of the mill.

Good wife up in Oakland does some

investigating.

They find some way to get their client

out of trouble, blah, blah, blah.

It's not until those last like ten or

so minutes or ten to fifteen minutes.

It's like, wow,

this like went way left of where I

thought it was going to be.

um yeah so like that was why yeah

and so i think in the next episode

we're gonna definitely see more of the

aftermath of this but all i could think

about for diane particularly was

guns because she just got married to gun

man yeah and a gun killed her best

friend uh not her best friend but her

best partner her best her person her work

husband

um and so like the impact like just

thinking about the aftermath for some of

this stuff is like and she's very like

i'm going to take up the car like

take up the cause type of person right

like she's a type of person so there's

that we've got kalinda staying or going

we've got alicia who knows like alicia's

at least at this point

Like we talked about at the beginning,

the whole reason that Will was on this

case was because Alicia didn't take this

case, like because of the fight,

because she left,

because of all of this stuff.

And also she that she also passed on

the second opinion.

she she is so like in terms of

blaming herself or anything like that i'm

assuming she's gonna go through it right

like i'm assuming she's like yeah she'd go

through it regardless but she's got like

some blame stuff i think like of herself

like if she's blaming herself if only i

had taken the second opinion or if only

like he would still be here today

I don't know, Alicia,

you might have not been here today.

Who knows?

That's kind of what Survivor's Guilt does.

Yes, exactly.

It makes you question everything.

It makes you create these parallel

universes.

What if I had done this?

What if I had done that?

And the shield of Will in the case

is no longer there.

So it can go a couple of ways.

But without Will,

does Dubek have anything?

Exactly.

Right.

There's that.

Yeah.

Or does he have something else where it

goes to, like,

Alicia's the through line to Peter as

opposed to Will?

I can't remember.

I have no idea.

He still has all those videotapes.

So it's like, you know.

Right.

But they can't really tie that to Peter

knowing about it without Will.

Because Will was the person that told

Peter about it.

Without Will being around,

is there anyone to say that Peter...

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which I hate that because Peter needs to

be punished for all of the things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like this, I mean,

as we said a thousand times,

this is transformational for the show in

many different ways.

So it's going to be interesting to track

that as we go along.

And, you know,

as shocked and dismayed as I was in

the moments back then,

it just was more of like,

And this is the power of TV.

This is the power of character.

I was just, I was just sad.

Like, this is so sad.

It watching it back,

knowing what was going to happen.

I was still super sad about it because,

you know, and especially for us,

like this show has been our once a

week thing for over two years at this

point.

So this is like,

it's almost like seeing our friends get.

Yeah.

Like it was.

Well, and yeah,

We know there's only seven seasons of The

Good Wife.

So, you know,

he was here for five seasons.

How is it going to change the show?

What happened to things?

To be quite honest,

I don't really remember watching much of

The Good Wife without Josh Charles.

For my own original viewing of it,

it could have been life.

It could have been the fact that Josh

Charles wasn't there.

I don't remember much past...

think i remember like one or two things

with lou canning spoilers but i would say

he was a big part of this show

for me um so i'm i'm interested to

see what my reaction to the rest of

the show will be without him i do

remember some of the more notable like

additions to the cast which makes it like

it kind of is like you're not my

dad like you know it's like

You're not Will Gardner.

You are a substitute for Will Gardner.

So I remember those things.

But we'll see how we feel about it

as it goes.

This is a huge loss for us,

for the show,

and it's going to be felt for good

and for bad.

Yeah, you know,

I can't wait to get into more of

it.

As we said,

we're going to have a little more bonus

coverage.

That's probably going to come out not with

this episode,

but probably with the next episode as we

dive into more of the aftermath.

And we're going to really kind of parse

it out, talk about it,

and see how we're feeling.

Hopefully get some feedback from you guys

out there about this episode in

particular, how you felt about it,

how you felt about Will dying.

You know, and we'll see.

We shall see.

This is kind of like the pause point

for like,

like we don't have closure on this.

So we shall see where we pick it

up next week.

But yes, please do write to us.

Let us know what you're thinking,

what you're feeling,

what your thoughts are.

Did you watch it the first time?

Did you not like,

is this your first time you heard that

Will died?

So sorry that we were the ones that

had to tell you.

But yeah, that's our episode this week.

Yeah.

Marissa,

you want to tell the good folks where

they can find you and what you're up

to?

Sure, sure.

You can find me at itsmemarissag.com.

It's got links to all the podcasts I'm

on.

I'm starting to write on Substack.

You can find the link to that there.

Yeah.

So I've got links to the YouTube version

of this podcast.

If you're not watching this over there,

we would love it if you would just

subscribe,

hit that bell because it would help us

out.

with our our journey over there uh i'm

also on whirlwind podcast talking about

pretty little liars one or one previously

on at a time and then also talking

to my sister as we watch star trek

the next generation for the very first

time on the uss sisterhood jason what's up

with you

There's a lot going on in that world

of mess.

Yeah.

Yeah, there is.

But it's not like, you know,

the big thing in the mess world is

Love Island.

But that's not really my like,

that's not really my bailiwick.

But there is Love Island coverage over on

Rob has a podcast.

So Love Island is your thing.

Check out Kirsten McInnes as she is doing

like daily coverage of Love Island over

there.

It's a new thing on the We Know

Dating Show.

network, so check that out with Kirsten.

She's going to be talking about that show.

That's not really my thing,

but me and Asia Welch are still talking

about the show Married at First Sight.

We are going into the vault over our

podcast, A Perfect Match.

We're doing season twelve.

Really good season of the show.

A really great villain of reality TV on

that show,

so check that out if that's your thing.

And that's it for me.

That's it for Marissa.

That's it for Will Gardner.

Sleep well, sweet prince.

But until next time, stay good.