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We talk to the people that make the gaming industry happen, past & present. From casual players to industry CEOs. Gaming for the Culture is for the people by the people. Gaming mobile to VR!
Junae (00:01)
Welcome to, I don't know why I always start laughing. What's funny? Life. Life is a joyous thing to experience. Maybe that'll be the new tagline. Welcome to Gaming for the Culture. I'm here with Ariel Knight. I keep calling him by his government name, but I feel like that's what people call you.
Aerial_Knight (00:15)
Yo.
Yeah, it's all good. People call me what they first met me as. So you can call me either one is fine.
Junae (00:25)
Okay, so I'm gonna call you Neil. On this episode of Game for the Culture, we are talking with Neil, the creator of Aerial Night. We never yield, well, never yield, and now we never yield. And we are just, actually, Neil, go ahead and introduce yourself. I feel like I've already been talking too much. Well, the people wanna hear about you. They wanna know about you. You done done 50 -11 interviews, so tell us something we don't know. Go ahead.
Aerial_Knight (00:28)
Yeah.
Yeah, me never you. Ugh.
A little bit. To tell you something they don't know, I don't know about that, but I'm Neil. I go by Aerial Knight Online. I'm the creator and developer of Aerial Knights Never Yield and now the upcoming Aerial Knights We Never Yield, which is a follow -up. You don't need to play the first game to play this game, but it's a dope co -op adventure game that you can play solo or with a friend or partner.
Junae (00:56)
Yeah!
We know that though. You're supposed to be like in the fifth grade.
Aerial_Knight (01:23)
We don't I don't know what these people know. I don't know these people. Look, look, if you knew that already, then a a plus a has off, you the best. Tell you some they don't know. Shoot. I'm pretty transparent and everything they don't know, they don't need to know. But I'll say that this this game is rather large.
Junae (01:28)
You're supposed to tell us.
Aerial_Knight (01:51)
For what it is if we played the first game you like the first game is totally different. It's a whole different thing It's very big but it was made for a very low budget and with a smallish team of around six people seven people sometimes it depends on the day of the week But yeah, we did it in about a year I was working on it more than a year, but you know we have people full production for a little less than a year
But yeah, I don't know if they knew that either, but. But yes, it's a really good time. We put everything into this game. We have a demo out now on Steam. If it's still up when you see this, I'm not sure, but you can go check it out, see what you like. You play the tutorial first for the love of God, play the tutorial before you play the first level. I'm going to have to put I don't like forcing people into playing tutorials. You know, I want to be optional.
But at the same time, if people keep skipping the tutorial and they'll have to do something to be like, hey, you have to play the tutorial first. It's only like 20 seconds. But yeah, thanks for having me on.
Junae (03:03)
Yeah, you're welcome. I think something people don't know is that Neil doesn't sleep like Neil's Batman, like in my experience, because every time I'm like, Hey, Neil, he's like, Yeah, I'm like, it's 3am. It's 5am. It's midnight like.
Aerial_Knight (03:20)
And what do I say every time you ask me, what am I doing up so late? I'll be working. Like that's what I'm saying. How do you think I got this game done in like a year? I've worked nonstop, but I'm going to take a break after this one. I'm going to take like a good two weeks and then I'm going to start the next game.
Junae (03:25)
You be working. If you work it, maybe work it.
Are you going to like go vacation somewhere or are you just going to like lay in your bed and appreciate it?
Aerial_Knight (03:42)
I'm probably, no, I'm probably gonna play like Persona 3 or something, I don't know.
Junae (03:47)
Yeah, gamers relax differently. We like to have, we like, we don't like outside stress, but we like stress in our games. So we'll be like, work is so stressful, and then turn on something like Persona or Yakuza.
Aerial_Knight (03:53)
Hmm.
Let me almost get murdered by a bunch of people in this game.
Junae (04:06)
Yeah, you know, the things we don't want in real life, we want it in the game, right? Even like job simulator or something like that.
Aerial_Knight (04:13)
yeah, power wash. Let me go clean some cars and walls and stuff.
Junae (04:16)
Power wash simulator, yeah. Yeah, it's very satisfying. But in real life, you're like, ugh, this is so much work. But yeah, you get money in power, like wash simulator for like washing things. So that makes sense to me. It's already one -upping real life, so.
Aerial_Knight (04:24)
Hehehehe
Hehehehe
Junae (04:42)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have told us about your game, right? Podcast episode over. We don't have nothing else to talk about besides your game.
Aerial_Knight (04:44)
Mm -hmm.
Yes.
Yeah, it's dope. Go play it. You know, everybody who watches this, if they go buy the game, then I get to make another one. See? See, that's how that works.
Junae (05:00)
Period, period. So you classify yourself as like a solo dev or?
Aerial_Knight (05:06)
I go back and forth. It depends on what game you're talking about. You know, the first game I call myself a solo dev for this game. I do a lot of, you know, I pretty much touch everything, but definitely not solo. Definitely have a lot of help. I'm working with this team in London called Beta Justus. And they're really cool and they help me with a lot of functionality. They help me set up the game so I can just focus on art and design and.
I make a couple videos here and there that I post on Twitter or whatever you want to call it, where I talk about how now that I have more time to work on, the more I get to refine it and go through it with the first game. You go through those menus and you see how rough it looks, but I have very little time to make that page and then make it work. And then also make the whole game and then market the game. And then...
work on the functionality and fix bugs and things like that. So I have the same amount of time, but I'm just like kind of just fully focused on like a couple areas as far as art, music, animation and all those things. Not so much the coding this time around.
Junae (06:24)
Did the first game open up the door to work with more people and take some stress off of yourself? Did the first game's success help with that?
Aerial_Knight (06:38)
Kind of, I mean, I guess notoriety and having a launch title under your belt for people to look at and say, hey, this person actually finished something. So they won't just start a project and then drop it or disappear, which happens a lot, you know, when you kind of join projects and, you know, reach out to people for projects. There's not a lot of trust because there's so many people out there who just start projects.
work on it for like a month and then they lose interest and like the whole project dies.
Junae (07:11)
Apparently that is a huge thing and a big factor in why people like, not saying people should work for free at all, but why people are like less likely to take that chance to work with a developer. So earlier, before we started recording, you were talking about how you didn't think that your first game would be like such a success. What does a successful game look like?
Aerial_Knight (07:41)
that's a case by case thing, really. for me, success is, do I get to make another one? You know? do I like it? Am I happy with it? that's success for me. But for other people, it might look different. They might, you know, want all the money they want. they want to get a publisher. They want to end up on game paths. They want, they want some deals and things like that. And that's totally dope and valid and whatever. but.
You know, I just want to make cool stuff, keep making cool stuff and be able to hire my friends to help me make those cool things.
Junae (08:18)
So are you saying you're not a millionaire after making your first game?
Aerial_Knight (08:24)
no, that's dollar store. You know, I'm still shopping at dollar store here and there. You know, I don't get to upgrade my seats when I fly. The only difference is that instead of flying Spirit, I get to fly Delta now. That's it. That's the only that's the only perk of all this is like I got just a little bit extra to fly Delta.
Junae (08:46)
That is hilarious, you know, depending on the day, the prices for Spirit and Delta are the same, like travel people don't come for me in the comments, but...
Aerial_Knight (08:54)
Yeah, but also...
but also the science eating.
Junae (09:01)
Facts, facts, it's nice, it's nice, it's nice.
Aerial_Knight (09:06)
I mean, they changed the rules now, so they assigned seating when you board and you have to play extra to kind of get the seat that you really want. So, you know, they're getting closer to spirit now, too. Whatever.
Junae (09:21)
That is really funny. That's really funny. Yeah. So when you started your production, because I feel like you started it immediately, right? Like after your first game, you took a long break. Well, what's the long break to you? Like what like?
Aerial_Knight (09:33)
No, I took a long break. Yeah, I started working at Unity.
So the game launched and like right before the game launched, I started working at Unity. And I was at Unity for almost two years. But, you know, I was writing this script and I was doing a bunch of other stuff while I was at Unity. So once kind of layoffs and stuff like that at Unity went down, I kind of just was like, I could get another job or I can just kind of work on this sequel that I've been wanting to make forever.
So I kind of just jumped into this.
Junae (10:14)
That makes sense, right? Because eventually the money that you were making or the experience that you had led you to make this game. And then this one's probably also going to be a banger. We're going to have banger on top of banger. That's what the expectation, that's what the charts are saying. And so if you didn't start production right away, the charts are not saying that.
Aerial_Knight (10:25)
Mm -hmm.
Hehehe.
no, the charts are not saying that. I need help. If you... The charts are not saying that at all. People don't think that I got it made. Please go wishlist. We never yield. Right now. Stop what you're doing.
Junae (10:45)
No, that's what I meant. That's what I meant. It's going to be a banger because people are going to support and they're going to get it. And it's going to be a community favorite. It's going to be something that people want to get into.
Aerial_Knight (10:55)
Hopefully, I'm dying, help me.
Junae (11:00)
How much, wait Neil how much is your game?
Aerial_Knight (11:04)
I don't know yet. It's not out. I'm gonna pick. I'm just, I...
Junae (11:06)
For $15.99 you too can support an indie dev make his dreams come true.
Aerial_Knight (11:11)
Yeah, no, let's say for $29 for $19.99 because it's going to be lower. So then when they when they get to when they get to the page, they're going to be like, this is less than $19.99 Let me pick it up. Right. So for 19.99, you can make sure that I get to make another game.
Junae (11:15)
for $19.99, for $19.94.
facts facts facts facts.
For $49 .99, you can have the bundle. You can get the first game.
Aerial_Knight (11:31)
Look, look, why are we lowballing it? for $99.99
Junae (11:35)
99 you can have the bundle.
Aerial_Knight (11:39)
you can make sure that I get to pick my seat on my next Delta flight.
Junae (11:43)
You too can help an indie dev fly business class.
Aerial_Knight (11:47)
That's not even business class. That's just like regular domestic.
Junae (11:51)
No, we try to get you up there. We try to get you up. We try to get you in the lounge, right?
Aerial_Knight (11:55)
Those prices are ridiculous. I'm cheap. I would never.
Junae (11:59)
agree with you that it's a bit crazy like some of those prices like
Aerial_Knight (12:04)
A flight goes from like $300 to $1 ,500 if you fly like business or want a first class seat. Like I would never spend that much on a seat for like extra leg room.
Junae (12:13)
Yeah. Especially if you're not even going anywhere crazy. Like I think it's like, if you have like a 17 hour flight, then you're like, dang, maybe I should be okay. But like if you're going from like Detroit to like Boston or like, you know what I mean? You're like, I'll be fine. I'll be fine. I'll be fine. I love how we keep talking.
Aerial_Knight (12:21)
Yeah, that would make sense.
Yeah, yeah, it's a couple hours. It's fine. Yeah. Let me watch a movie.
Yeah, we're not even talking about anything. So back back on track. We're talking about video games. They have video games. You're making a game.
Junae (12:43)
it though.
So, what games are you looking forward to? One, I think, first of all, am I making a game?
Aerial_Knight (12:55)
No, no, no, no, I asked you. I said, you're making a game.
Are you? I thought you were. see, look at that. So we're both making the game.
Junae (13:04)
Yes?
Yeah.
Aerial_Knight (13:12)
You see how weird that is to talk about your game? That's how I feel all the time. Yeah.
Junae (13:15)
It's not weird because it's not about me, but like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. I want to start making it more vigorously. I'm in like the planning stages of two games, which.
Aerial_Knight (13:29)
Mm -hmm.
You're doing more than me. All you have to do now is not sleep and give up all the fun things.
Junae (13:42)
No, okay. Okay. Okay. No, like, my gosh. You just triggered me so bad because the game jam, this is my very first game jam that I was a part of, was a month long, right? Which like, thankfully, usually it's like three days. And so I started, shout out to my team. I love you guys, right? Like, love you guys.
Aerial_Knight (13:48)
You
huh.
It's a really long time.
Junae (14:10)
So I started in May and like the first week I was like, hey, like let's have our scrum meeting, right? Like let's just meet and let's talk about it. And then we'll just like go do all of our work that we need to do. And then the second week I'm like, hey guys, like where's everything? And people were just like, hmm, I'm gonna get to it. Or like they were really, really hyped the first week. The second week, it like drastically slowed down. And then like the third week was like.
Aerial_Knight (14:21)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Junae (14:36)
And I was like, y 'all, we not supposed to be crunching. We're supposed to be against crunching. We're supposed to be doing better. We were supposed to, like, we had the whole...
Aerial_Knight (14:44)
It's hard not to blame people too. It's like, yo, if you did what you're supposed to do and followed the schedule, we wouldn't be here right now.
Junae (14:51)
So, so I'm like, hey, y 'all, like, we really need to whip it into shape because, you know, I told them, I was like, hey, I really don't like to, like, micromanage because I feel like that might be kind of what that is. It's like micromanaging where I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hi, hi, hey, hey, do you have, you know, and then I had to start doing that and I gave myself the it.
Aerial_Knight (15:13)
Hehehe.
Junae (15:19)
You know what I mean? Being like, hey, do you guys have this? But that seemed to work better for us to have a game. And actually, our game won the People's Choice Award, right? So we came out numero uno in those votes. And so it's like switching gears really did help. But I wasn't sleeping. Like, the last two weeks and my birthday was like four days before the end of the jam, I think.
Aerial_Knight (15:20)
Yeah.
See? Hey, that's dope. Congrats.
Junae (15:45)
And I was like, y 'all, can we please have it by Wednesday? Because I really just want to sleep for my birthday. I'm like, that's all I'm asking y 'all. Like, I really just want to take a nap. I just want to sleep. I don't want to wake up my time. Like, you know what I mean? I don't want to wake up at my time because I have to message you guys at like 11 o 'clock your time. I don't want to do that. And we did get it in. And so I had a very calm birthday weekend.
And then I still came back though, like that same day I was like, hey, can we make this change? Can we make that change? Can we just implement this? Because my game called Talowa, it is in Patois, but it should be in English as well. And I didn't want to put it in English because I just remember people and they're like PS Vita.
Aerial_Knight (16:14)
Mm -hmm.
Junae (16:38)
and they're PSP and they're playing all these games that are in these foreign languages that they don't know. And I'm like, y 'all could probably deal with it. But I was like, no, Janaye, we want to be accessible. Like, don't be like that. And so, you know.
Aerial_Knight (16:39)
Hehehe.
I mean, I think you underestimate how stubborn people in America are about subs and dubs and all that stuff, because there ain't no way that I'm playing something that I don't understand. Unless it's one of those types of games where it's just like an action game and like the words and stuff don't matter. As long as I can get to the game, that's fine. I don't care. But anything story based, I'm like, I'm passed.
Junae (16:58)
You're right.
You're right though.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Aerial_Knight (17:17)
That's why I put so much work into making sure I have these translations, which has been kind of a pain.
Other than that, you know, yeah, I rock with it.
Junae (17:29)
It's worth it though. I think translations are important and I'd have been a hypocrite, right? If I just did it in Patoa and like not English. So I put it in and then I was watching someone play it and they're like, I really appreciate the English part. And I was like, Hmm, look at that. Like you did, you did a good thing. So I did survive my first development, right? Just like that one month. And,
Aerial_Knight (17:39)
Mm -hmm.
Junae (18:00)
And the second game. The second game. Okay, so here's the difference. It might not tell me tell me if this is a difference or not. So the first game was a game jam and like, you know, these are people who like wanted to work on it, right, but we were all in like a central place. And I was like, hey, I'm looking for people and people will be like, hey, I'm interested. And so then we all like came together. So I think you know, it's like, like, what's your work style? What's your work style? What's your work style? Okay, we have to get this done. And then the other game.
Aerial_Knight (18:18)
Mm -hmm.
Junae (18:28)
they found me and they weren't, it wasn't like a game jam. It was just kind of like, hey, like I'm working on this. Like, do you, like, you know, and they're like, I love it. They were like, I love it. And then someone else was like, hey, I'm working on this. Do you want to? So like, that's kind of been a bit of a longer process as well, you know, versus being like, hey, we all, I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say, but yeah, I feel like.
my original original game idea they found me and then this one it's like we all wanted to do something for like a specific game jam so i'm i feel like the level of interest
Aerial_Knight (19:05)
Mm -hmm.
Junae (19:15)
may be different. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
Aerial_Knight (19:19)
Well, you know, sometimes you just really have to sell people on things and really convince them about your idea. So the second game for me went a little bit smoother because like the first game proved that people were interested in this type of game. And this game was all about doubling down on some of those aspects, you know, going a little bit more into the music, doing a little bit more of the art, adding more cut scenes, making it more stylized.
given that more anime feel here and there. Saying that a game with all Black characters is fine, you know, people like that, people can rock with that. But if we want more of it, it just takes people supporting those types of things.
Junae (20:05)
I can agree with that. The game that I did for the game jam, it is based in Jamaica. So like all, most of the characters are Black. I think her cousin is Jamaican, but he's also like Middle East Asian. I think specifically Indian, if I'm remembering correctly. And so I definitely, but in my other game, nobody's, nobody's anything.
Aerial_Knight (20:22)
Mm. Yeah.
Junae (20:35)
like they're fruit so like they're not Black white like they're not any ethnicity they're fruit.
So, but I definitely agree with that because I feel like we need to get past this like, we need to get past this Black leads don't sell thing, right? Like that's, it's kind of silly that we're still having these conversations because they do. And everyone, I don't know if I want to say this. I'm going to say it, but I'm using it as a comparison. So.
You know, a lot of people were like, don't buy Hogwarts Legacy. We're not supporting it. And then it was like Hogwarts Legacy. It was like the number one. It was like the number one game. And then now they're coming out with like the Quidditch game. And I say that to say, people will say like, I'm not going to support it, but then like buy it anyway. But I don't think they keep.
Aerial_Knight (21:37)
Mm -hmm.
Well, I think people were being told not to support. There's a difference between people saying they weren't going to support it and people being told they shouldn't support it because, you know, everybody I know rocks with Harry Potter hard. Right. And no matter what that that woman who made it, you know, says, you know, she not changing nothing, you know. And I always thought it was a little unfair to the development team.
Junae (21:51)
Really?
Same. Same.
Aerial_Knight (22:15)
who she barely even like interacted with. She kind of just approved the story because like if you check my Twitter, I've never kind of like said anything about it because I was like, yo, yes, I agree with like the stuff that she's saying is horrible and whatever. But these people who worked years on this game had nothing to do with that. So I don't understand the correlation, right? Because we support, you know, other things from people who've done terrible things like we all have bank accounts. Look at the like.
with the banking system has done is supported slavery. Are we all going to go shut down our bank accounts because of that? You know, because if we're keeping it fair, then there's a lot of things that need to be shut down because it was built off the back of a terrible person. But it's not hers no more. You know, she she created it. Yes, she always going to have that credit. She always going to get a little bit of change from it. But she's already like multimillionaire. She's set for life.
Nothing we can do or try to cancel her is going to change that. And this looked like a dope game. You know, it has the best Black hair I've ever seen in like a game. I'm sure some other place is going to do a better pretty soon. But I thought it was solid. You know, I didn't, you know, I want to support people who. Happen to be mad about it, you know, because I wasn't like discounting them being mad, but I really didn't see.
correlation in some points and I didn't see why, you know, the developers who just happened to use that IP had to suffer because of this woman who had nothing to do with their development, you know.
Junae (23:52)
Well, good news, they didn't suffer. They got some good, yeah. I say that to say that's a good point though, right? Because I just saw people being like, yeah, yeah, no, don't fight, don't fight. They say that to say that I feel like sometimes it may not be the same energy. Like, you know how you get on Twitter and like somebody, a game bro will be like, a woman character.
Aerial_Knight (23:54)
They did not suffer at all.
Junae (24:21)
I'm throwing away my Xbox. No, they're not. I mean, somebody is, but I don't even think it's 10 percent, you know. So when we have.
Aerial_Knight (24:28)
Even if they do, who cares? We don't need them anyway. I'm not losing no sleep over them. If they want to get that mad over a video game or like a character in a video game, it's their money.
Junae (24:33)
that part.
That's very true. That's very true. I just, I don't want to have the conversation anymore about diverse leads, you know, like it being hard or you can't do this or you can't do that. And, you know, it's, it's frustrating when. Hmm.
Aerial_Knight (25:03)
It is frustrating. No, I was saying I was green. I was saying it is frustrating.
Junae (25:08)
Yeah, it's frustrating, but you just have a good piece. And then people make it political. Because life is political. That sounded really bad. my god, that sounded so bad. So what I'm trying to say is you make something, and then they're like,
Aerial_Knight (25:19)
Hehehehe
you like two steps away from getting canceled. Go ahead.
No, just keep going, just keep going. This is gonna go viral.
Junae (25:31)
so bad. It left my mouth. It was like, so like if you make something, you know, they're like, this Black guy, why do we have to make stuff about like Black people? And you just made something, you know, like, I'm not saying there isn't activism in your work. I think a Black man making a game with like two Black boys is a bit of activism in itself. But I don't think there's directly where you're like, you know, rage against the machine. Like, I don't think that's what you're doing here. And then,
Aerial_Knight (25:38)
-huh.
Junae (26:00)
people kind of turn it into that. And so like, people...
Aerial_Knight (26:02)
Yeah, they made it into that and I just commented on it. Like I think people didn't notice that at first, but I never say anything or start anything like that. Like I just comment on the things that kind of happen. And like when people kind of like say that, like take like subliminal slouch at me, I'd like just be like, yo, you know, I made a game with Black characters. Y 'all, y 'all hate it. And y 'all say, you know, X, Y, and Z, but y 'all fine with JRPGs. You're like, why do we have to make things about race? I was like.
Junae (26:06)
Yeah.
Aerial_Knight (26:31)
You know what the J in JRPG stands for, you know, but that's fine. But me saying this is a Black game is the issue. You know, it's, it's all relative. You give these people who, you know, hide behind fake accounts or whatever way too much energy, and power value. I'm like, I don't care about these people anymore. I'm just like, yo, I'm just going to try and make a good game. if they rock with it, cool.
I try not to push anybody away from playing my games because I get to make more of them. But if they insist on just being mad about something, I just let them be mad about it, whatever.
Junae (27:14)
I agree with that. 100 % because you're gonna find my grandmother used to say...
try to translate it. If you if you look for something, you'll find it, right? If you look for something, you'll find it. So I think that's always the.
Aerial_Knight (27:30)
Yeah.
Junae (27:36)
That's always a frustrating part about making anything as a non -white person or non -majority in whatever area that you're in.
Aerial_Knight (27:48)
You know, you know what I discovered in the past year, though, because like originally I would just like yell at him or whatever. And we had this yelling match back and forth. They tried to tell me that I'm wrong about something and they aren't. And then I would try to be like, hit him with facts and they would just ignore it and change the subject and things like that. They got it. They got a game plan. It's like really obvious. But what they don't like kind of plan for is you listening to them and just saying, huh, I understand why you wouldn't like this. And.
That's OK to not like something. And then they just say, this is not going to work on me. You're not going to be nice to me and think that I'm not going to be angry. And I'm like, you know, sometimes we're angry. Sometimes we're not. And I'm sorry that you don't rock with this, but other people seem to. And we don't we don't get mad at people for liking things here. And then it makes them even more mad. And it's just so funny to me. And I had such a good time like last month.
Junae (28:19)
Yeah.
Aerial_Knight (28:43)
because I was just poking at them. They were trying to make me mad, so bad. And I was just like pulling the, what do you call it? Mr. Rogers.
Because you can't argue with Mr. Rogers. You can't fight with Mr. Rogers. So everybody should just be Mr. Rogers.
Junae (28:58)
Yeah, yeah. Because he's like, everything's okay here. You know, you're supposed to heap hot coals on the person who's upset to kind of let the fire die.
Aerial_Knight (29:04)
Yeah, everything's going to be okay, you know.
Yeah, because them being mad is their problem. It's not your problem.
Junae (29:16)
Yeah, that's very, that's very true, you know, and I think I think
Aerial_Knight (29:23)
It's hard. It is hard.
Junae (29:28)
when we are in our own echo chambers so much, it can be hard to consider other people on any side, you know, because at the end of the day, Neil, you're getting to do what you love and they're getting to watch you do what you love. If they're not doing what they love, right? I think if you do what you love, most of the time, you could just be really happy with being having like your result and things in. And so then when people are upset, you're like, but I have reached like maximum.
like utopia, like I'm here, I've made something and then I can even make something that has discourse behind it, like you know I think that's pretty cool too, like that's really nice. So.
I'm happy with the direction that that went in and I found the worst of say.
Aerial_Knight (30:22)
Right, because, you know, again, it can get really negative and then just ruins everybody's day. I'm less of that now, you know, not to say I don't get angry and I just try to be Mr. Rogers all the time. That's not true. Not even a little bit. But, you know, why argue? You know, because the people who are on the other side of that screen, they're yelling at you because...
Either they're mad at something else or or maybe sometimes they might even have a little bit of a point, you know, but they're just expressing it in the wrong way. They're if they say, you know, why does all these characters have to be Black or whatever? It's really easily easy to take that in a negative way to say, you know, you just don't like Black people. But maybe they just, you know, really like this game and really like to see themselves in this type of game, because this type of game doesn't really.
it's different and it doesn't really exist. Maybe they're sick of Call of Duty and they want other outlets and things like that. And just like us, they like to see themselves in that role. So like, if you look at it from that context and me saying it in a nicer way, it's still very whatever, F them, but also a little bit more context to why they might be mad. And I'm not saying people have to come at stuff wholeheartedly and like openly and stuff like that. You know, if you want to yell at them, go ahead and yell at them.
It's just like for me, just kind of being whatever about it and saying, hey, you know, I get it. It's not what you want it. I'm sorry. You know, tough thing. You don't have to apologize, but just kind of move on, you know.
Junae (32:04)
I definitely like that approach because it gives less energy. You know, I know everyone is not equipped and doesn't want to be like the teacher, right? They're like, why do I have to tell you this? Like, why do I have to do that? I don't want to do this. Why do I have to? And I think that that gives them space to be like, I don't really have to do this. And like, I'm not, I'm actually not going to do this. And so we're going to leave it at that, you know, and I think it's interesting.
Aerial_Knight (32:17)
Mm -hmm.
they want you to be mad. That's the thing. They want you to get angry. They want you to yell back at them and go back and forth with them. And then they want you to block them so they can celebrate that too. So like if you really want to get them mad or like, subvert that expectation and do the opposite, but also you could just block them, you know, F it, you know, don't talk, don't talk to them if you don't want to deal with them. we've got to use different platforms. Go on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn cause there is no energy like that on LinkedIn.
haha
Junae (33:00)
That's funny. Yeah, that's true. I like that though. It can be hard. I've made pieces that have people like in an uproar and it just took me a minute because like, especially like my people pleasing days, gosh, that was so horrible. And I had like so much energy, like about worrying. I so much like worry to like do.
And then I kind of was like, huh, if I write and I create content and that's like my art, right? Like I don't actually have like a paintbrush and like a canvas. I'm like, you know, it's a good thing that I'm getting people to discourse because with my journalistic integrity and my ethics, I'm not going to make something that's like clickbaity or like harmful. And so, because I'm holding myself to like a certain standard when I create things, I don't like.
I don't worry so much anymore when people have like a lot of negative energy for me and things like that. And I've never been the one to really argue with people like on Twitter. And I've never really, you know, been the one to be like, like, because you know, that's social currency, right? To be like, I got blocked by such and such, like, that's like clout. Like I, I did this, I made that person mad, you know, and then come back with their four other accounts to do something.
Aerial_Knight (34:01)
Hmm.
Junae (34:28)
you know, crazy or start like doxing or things like that. I've never really been the type to like argue with people and be, I don't know, like at the end of the day, like, give me your address, I guess. Like, like at the end of the day, like, what do you want to do? Like, what do you, what do you want to do? Like, you know.
Aerial_Knight (34:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, you just ready to you ready scrap you ready to go down? I'm. Yeah, you.
Junae (34:56)
It's just like, if we're not willing to do that, it's never that serious. I think that's the way that I'm going. I don't know if you want to send me your address, do it. But if we're not willing to throw fisticuffs over it, it could have never been that serious. And I think that is kind of like the reality check that a lot of people can say a lot. Anybody got a keyboard, a phone, anybody can say anything online, right? You ain't got to.
prove nothing to be a part of these platforms. You don't have to like give your ID or something like that. Like anybody could be anything and say anything and do anything. And you know, you just did something you're really proud of. And then it just like knocks you off your square. And like, yeah. So maybe that'll be the new wave in 2025, unless you're willing to give me your address about it. Like, you know.
Aerial_Knight (35:52)
Yeah.
Junae (35:55)
And that's not for the conversations that are actually happening, right? Because people learn a lot through social media and like feelings and talking and discourse. People learn a lot, but also people use that for like negativity and stuff like that.
Aerial_Knight (36:10)
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I feel like being negative, sometimes I'm like, I can't do it today. Sometimes I feel like let me just be super positive. And one of my friends, he says, you know, I do this toxic positivity thing, which, you know, I was like real thrown off and I didn't like that at first, but I'm like.
So be positive, you know, what's the point of yelling and being mad all the time, you know, it's not changing nothing. So why not, you know?
Junae (36:46)
we're back not that y 'all knew that we left in the first place I guess I didn't have to say that but we left and then we came back and I got more questions for Ariel Knight so
Aerial_Knight (36:57)
Yeah, go for it.
Junae (37:00)
This is your second game, right? You were saying you quit after your first one, which is just every other game dev that we know. They never want to do it again. And then after they launched their first game, the dev bug bites them again. And then they want to create another one. What is it in between time between you are actually almost done making the game?
right, like kind of in the space that you're in now, like it's getting ready to like go out to the masses and you quit and then you starting like, what does that three step process look like?
Aerial_Knight (37:37)
So when you finish a game, it's a big high, but it's like seeing a kid off to college. And when they're gone, it's like an empty house. And you're just like, what do I do now? And that's why people have multiple kids. They're like, well, let's get another kid, type of thing. And I think it's kind of like that, where you just kind of, you know.
You spent years of your life kind of doing this thing and you have this routine and you've been working on it and you know, you're so proud of it. And then you also can say, I can do it so much better this time if I did X, Y, and Z over again. You know, so then you're like, you know, I'll do it better this time. I'll either make it smaller or I'll make it bigger or, you know, this is going to be my thing. You know, so I think that in between time is just trying to figure out what you want to do. And you realize, you know, you just want to do that, you know.
Junae (38:33)
I do get that. I get that. That sounds like a reason to continue. If I ever heard one. So...
Calling it like post -production blues, right? Where you have done your best, you've done your best PR, you've done your best marketing to like build up to this moment, the crescendo of it all. How many podcasts or articles or like content, how much content have you done for this game alone? Like what's a rough number?
Aerial_Knight (38:50)
Yeah, something like that.
for we never yield or never yield.
Junae (39:13)
was for Never Yield. For we Never Yield. Yeah.
Aerial_Knight (39:16)
For the next year, it was a lot, you know, but it was a different time. You know, people were having that conversation about, you know, black people in games and how there weren't enough of us and they were looking for games and to get people's perspective on it. And there weren't many people who came from our background who had that experience, especially recent experience of launching a game and going through all those things and being around as long as I had at the time.
So I did quite a few to say the least. I can't even tell you a number of like, you know, daily, I was like talking to somebody or doing something, but also didn't say no to interviews because I just really wanted my game to be successful and like every, you know, outlet, even if it had 10 people who will watch it or, you know, read it or whatever. I didn't care. I was like, if, if you put me in front of a camera, give me a mic, give me like 30 seconds to convince somebody about my game. I could, I can talk them.
into at least playing the demo, you know?
Junae (40:18)
Well, good news, we have 12 people. So yeah.
Aerial_Knight (40:20)
Hey, that's amazing. You know, 12 people, you know, getting anybody to kind of watch her look at your content is amazing.
Junae (40:29)
Yeah. Yeah. So that was a question wrapped up in a question, right? Of like how many that you did, but then you're doing all of this stuff to get your game notice, to get it to the right people, to let people know that they'll enjoy it. Let it, let people know that like is kid friendly. It's kid friendly. Yeah. Right. Yeah. For the most part. Wink, wink. It's kid friendly. And you know, it's
Aerial_Knight (40:49)
Yeah, for the most part.
It definitely is definitely differently, you know. As long as your kid is one of the people who work with me, her name is Julie and she has these two adorable kids. And after seeing, you know, a lot of the cut scenes in the game, they kind of run through the house jumping off of things and I'm Ariel Knight. And I'm like, don't yell that as you jump off things, please. I was like, I'm getting so much trouble.
Junae (40:58)
It's co -op.
gonna be a game that's gonna be one game they can't play in the house kids kids will do anything man kids are funny like that kids will literally do anything so couch co -op co -op kid friendly you know really like low entry point right but like adapting is a bit high so you do all of that to get your game to the right people and then what happens after it launches
Aerial_Knight (41:44)
After the launch is nothing, you just kind of sit there. You promote it some more. Maybe you cut a new trailer. You talk to your community. You see the people who are active. You share their clips and screenshots and all the things. You know, that's basically it.
Junae (42:02)
No one throws you like...
Aerial_Knight (42:03)
I can't speak for big AAA or you do DLC. I don't really do that.
Junae (42:09)
So like, nobody throws you like a party. Nobody's like.
Aerial_Knight (42:14)
I'm not the yourself a party, you know, I was thinking about doing a party for we never yield, but I said I had time, you know, getting the word out and all that stuff. And I'm terrified of throwing a party and nobody, nobody showing up. I just be sitting there, do a bunch of free stuff and popcorn and whatever.
Junae (42:34)
You just gotta let me know when I'll plan accordingly. Yeah, you got one. You got your one RSVP. I got you. That's interesting. I have done that before. I was like 10, though. That sounds really sad. It was it's not that it was sad, but it's not.
Aerial_Knight (42:36)
Okay.
You're not convincing me, that's all I'm saying.
Junae (42:57)
It was sad then, but it's really funny now because like it happened. And so like.
Aerial_Knight (43:02)
Yeah, but you were 10, I'm a dot. My feelings are gonna be hurt for the rest of my life. I'm gonna...
Junae (43:07)
I mean, yeah, I guess.
Aerial_Knight (43:12)
See, see, anyway, anyway, this is why this is why I'm not having a party. Go ahead.
Junae (43:17)
Anyway.
Here I am trying to be like, yeah, do it. And you're like, ooh.
my gosh, that is so funny. Anywho, so you do all of this, you do all of this and then it kind of like fades out. Like the hype kind of just like fades. And then you're like, I should make another one. Like.
Aerial_Knight (43:42)
Mm -hmm.
Was that a question? Yep, that's how it goes, pretty much. He's like, yeah, no one. I mean, if you want to look at it ego perspective, you're just like, yeah, everybody was paying attention to me and now no one cares. So let me make something that makes people pay attention to me again. But it's kind of like that. But it's more of the kid analogy that I gave earlier about your kid going off of college and you're not knowing what to do with yourself anymore. When you game dev so much, that's all you know and that's all you want to do.
Junae (44:16)
agree with that. Yeah, I don't think it has to be a negative standpoint, right? Or I don't think it has to make your personality, I think, right? So not looking at it from an ego perspective. I think it kind of just goes in with the
saturation of the gaming industry because game development is accessible. Not everyone makes it past like solo -deving, you know, like not everyone makes it past like solo -deving and like testing the game and then getting somebody to like market it and then getting traction. So there are a lot of filters that get put in place. So not every game really makes it to the market. And I think just from observation alone, when the
Aerial_Knight (44:43)
Hmm.
Junae (45:03)
Panini Press happened and gaming kind of shot up. And then we had like a whole bunch of games released. And then unfortunately, with a lot of the layoffs and stuff happening, there's not going to be like that many games being really indie games, maybe, or maybe at least for a while. Like, I was just, I wrote a newsletter talking about how,
We're not really seeing a lack of release of games, right? Like Summer Game Fest just happened. We have a lot of games there and like, you know, the Xbox showcase, Nintendo, like Nintendo Direct, like that's always happening, especially now because it's summer. I don't think there's like a shortage of games being released. There are a lot of games that were canceled or maybe belong to... if you're a company that got acquired by like a bigger company, maybe your IP belongs to that company. So maybe you're not going to release that game.
Aerial_Knight (46:02)
Yeah.
Junae (46:04)
But like, eventually you'll probably release another game because once you're a game dev, kind of always a game dev, and you're probably always gonna wanna make those really, really cool things. So, I definitely think that your game, or anybody's game, really not getting this traction unless you're like doing DLC, unless there's like, you know, there's this like replayability.
on it or like, you know, tournaments for like fighting games or like there's that online aspect where people are constantly interacting with each other. I think it I think it's gonna happen, you know, except for like, you know, that that handful of people that are like, this is my game. Like, this is my game that I like, go back and play, especially if it has like high replayability. Like, I feel like we never yield has that high replayability. Sorry, never. We never yield. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Aerial_Knight (46:38)
Yeah. Yeah, coming back to it.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah, no, you got it right.
Junae (47:01)
So yeah, I think that can be people's go -to game.
Aerial_Knight (47:09)
I think I think people want to play it. They're going to enjoy it for the for a couple hours and then, you know, move on. And that's why I made it for one. Make a game that you don't have to play forever. You can play over a weekend and be like, that was dope. And then go on to another game. I think the 100 hour games and the Fortnites and things like that, those are cool. But now we're to a point where we had those for so long that that's all people do now. And originally, gaming was you play a game.
You take it back to GameStop within seven days, you get your money back, you try to get another game. And that's kind of like the best part of gaming for me. It was like you could play all these different characters in a year. You can experience all these different things. But now, you know, you watch the game awards and most people haven't played any of those games. They played Fortnite, they played Call of Duty. That's it, you know. So.
I don't think my game is going to change any of that, but at least it's an option so that if somebody ever is like, you know, I just really want to play something different this weekend. They have that, you know, like you can you can literally be the end of day if you sat there all day.
Junae (48:20)
think that's really important, especially like as an adult who wants to enjoy gaming. But like, you know, you don't get to it's like, okay, let me play something in a weekend, let me play something in a day that doesn't require like, full dexterity, full like attention, you know, like, like, we saw me struggle a little bit earlier. But like, if I played it for another hour, so I'd be like, all right, let's keep it going. Let's keep it going. And then if I put it down, and pick it up like tomorrow, or like over the weekend,
Aerial_Knight (48:36)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Junae (48:49)
it's not gonna be like a huge difference. Like I'm not gonna be like, crap, I forgot the controls, let me go back. First of all, the tutorial that's there, you could do that anytime, like anytime you want to, just in case, and then get that refresher and it'll get right back into it. So I do like that a lot.
Aerial_Knight (49:04)
Yeah. And that's why we broke the game down into episodes. So every episode is three levels, a hub area, like a cut scene or something like that lasts you about 30 to 45 minutes so that, you know, at the end of your day, if you got to you got time to watch like one episode of anime, then you got time to play one episode of We Never Yield. And there's only like five, six episodes plus challenge episodes. But yeah, keep people going for a while.
And, you know, we end each episode with credits scenes. So like we run credits at the end of episode so that people feel like, OK, I can stop here and I can come back tomorrow.
Junae (49:47)
That's good. I think that that's another goal that people would definitely go for. Speaking of games and like being able to play games and kind of like put them down and do the other things that you need to during your development process, did you find yourself able to play other games while you were developing yours?
Aerial_Knight (50:03)
Nope, I think I played Spider -Man. I played Spider -Man 2 when that came out and that was it.
Junae (50:10)
Do you think that you can enjoy it while working on your game or is it hard to like...
Aerial_Knight (50:18)
I'm just trying not like, you know, you get influenced by certain things, you know, you play a new game or whatever, and you're like, I really like that mechanic. I can do that mechanic in my game or whatever. And I really don't like that. And I think I sometimes I do that subliminally, you know.
And I try not to even look at other games when I'm like making my game, especially like the UI and stuff like that, because I try to be different. But sometimes, you know, you have this thought in the back of your head and you're like, hey, this would be a good idea. And then you don't know where it came from. And then you see something, you're like, that's where I got that from. And then you feel bad about it because, you know, I try to be as original as possible with certain things.
Within context, you know, some stuff you can't avoid with games, you know, things are done a certain way. Like you can't change the control layout too much. But yeah, you know, I try to enjoy games. I try not to, you know, fall into the rabbit hole of them because they take up a lot of time when I'm trying to make them.
Junae (51:20)
That's interesting and that's the first time I've heard that. So I'll ask that question and some people are just like, well, I don't have the time, you know, and things like that or being a game dev in general. Do you find it hard to like play games when you're not creating a game because like you may see some of the elements that they could have done or like something that like maybe looks buggy to you?
Aerial_Knight (51:44)
I don't know. I really don't, you know, especially like if you're playing, you know, AAA stuff, there's nothing that they, that I can do better than them. Like other than like the addition and the concept of the game, the overall concept, I might be able to make a better concept and something that's more niche, but I'm never like.
I could do those flowers better or whatever. I could do that wall texture better because I might be able to do that one wall texture better, but they just made like a 60 hour game for the wall textures and I can't do that by myself. So yeah, I can't judge anybody else.
Junae (52:25)
sense.
That makes perfect sense. I had another one, but I don't... Yeah, I did. I lost it because I was fighting with my mouse.
Aerial_Knight (52:36)
He lost it. He didn't come back.
Junae (52:44)
I love Sixx, I was fighting with my mouse and I was like... Yeah. I think that's cool though. That is the first time I heard that though, that people are usually just like, you know, I don't have any time. No. And you know, they do say like, yeah, I noticed certain things in other people's game when they're playing, but you talking about originality and just trying to...
just trying to do things in a different way. And then I feel like you're just so in your lane, like whatever somebody else creates or like do, you're like, that's cool. You know, but I'm going to do it my way. And I think that has to bring you some type of peace to like not compete, not trying to, you know, what's the saying about like, if you try to please everyone, you'll lose your ass. You know, like, yeah, like I think.
Aerial_Knight (53:31)
Yeah.
Junae (53:34)
Just speaking to you right now, it seems like you really have that down pack. And that's just kind of like your steez.
Aerial_Knight (53:40)
I think for the most part, my style is my thing. If you look at a shooter, like if you look at what Zalabjer just did with shooters, it's completely different than other shooters. And when I come up with a game, I think on paper we can all be given the same kind of sticky note of what this game needs to be, and we all come out with different types of games based off of that.
So I'm not really worried about people like kind of copying me or anything like that because you know My stuff is just so random You know, maybe someday, you know people would get like, you know The things that I do consistently and be able to like mimic what I'm doing But I'm just I'm really not too worried about it, you know
Junae (54:30)
I think that's dope to do something your way. And then it'll be inspiration for other people. I just imagine in a couple years, people will be like, yeah, we played Never Yield and we never yield and we really like the art style or like the music or the, just the UI and how they did things. Because I noticed during the scenes where we were talking like that, I thought that was pretty cool.
I definitely liked how you did that and there's that little like it's like a little bit of shading like you have like your main box and then there's like the shading underneath it. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, of course. Of course. All good things to say about it. I have all good things to say about the first game, but I wasn't good. So.
Aerial_Knight (55:09)
thanks.
No, I appreciate you and anybody who, you know, takes the time to either give the game a chance or just, you know, play the game or even if they buy it, that's amazing. You know, I'm making it a game for a game that I would like a game for me and hoping that other people enjoy it as well.
Junae (55:39)
That's really cool that you say that because I feel like the number one rule for making a game is you have to make a game for your audience. Like you can like it, but then it's like, what do they want? You know, like what do they want to do? So has anyone ever told you that? Where you're like, I'm making the game for me. And they're like, don't do that. Do you know, it won't be as like successful or something.
Aerial_Knight (56:00)
No.
I mean, I mean, if you talk to publishers and sure, they'll tell you all types of things about what you should and shouldn't do. But, you know, they just go off based off of what has been successful. They don't know what will be successful, you know. So you everybody's got to do their own thing. If you if you like it, that's cool. If you make something that you don't enjoy, that you hate, then, you know, it's you might be able to make a bunch of money, but you're not ever going to want to talk about it or, you know, play it yourself or anything like that.
Junae (56:35)
Yeah, because in changing some things that someone else who wasn't there through the process, you might strip like the soul away from it, right? Like, you could be like, this was so close to having like, Jenna say quah, but like, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't and it's missing something. And once you put out a game, like I think people are willing to give games a chance like we're
talking about like, was it No Man's Sky? That was like people were really, really upset about. And then I think they did a re -haul and then people were like, okay, but sometimes you like lost that first audience, you know, so it's like, whatever you're comfortable with, you should absolutely do it. And, you know, in that case, you could still like play the game, like, do you play your own game? Like, like if you...
Aerial_Knight (57:01)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Junae (57:22)
were an art if you were like an artist and you would like play your own song because you're like man like this this goes hard like do you play your own game do you find yourself like
Aerial_Knight (57:32)
not like after it launches because, you know, I've looked at it for years at that point. and it's not that I'm tired of it. I just enjoy watching other people play it, you know. and then remembering why I did certain things and didn't do other things. And I'm like, Hey, that was a good choice. Yes. I remember things. I'm like, yeah, I remember why I did that. but yeah, as far as like me just waking up in the morning and be like, I'm gonna play. We never yield. It's not really bad.
You know, after looking at it for so many years, I'm just like, I really want to play all these other games that I missed out on, you know.
Junae (58:04)
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense. During the like QS, Q - QS, QA testing phase, did you have that moment where you're like, please don't do that? You're not supposed to do that. That's like not how that goes. Or was it pretty intuitive?
Aerial_Knight (58:23)
Well, you know, you're never supposed to talk to people while they're playing your game so you can just kind of see how they react to stuff. But yeah, at GDC, I did notice people playing it wrong. But you know, you can't blame people for not knowing certain things. It is looking at what you got in front of them, you know, and taking it how they do. Some stuff might be obvious to me, but you know, it's all good. Like I said, I've been looking at it for years, so it's like really hard to kind of...
say someone's doing something wrong or anything like that, it's easier for me. So I just kind of take the notes and then make changes to kind of make sure it appeals to everybody. Like the tutorial, that's one of the reasons I put that there was because people were getting the timing wrong, they didn't understand the controls, but then once they played the tutorial, then they get the concept of using, playing as two characters at the same time.
Junae (59:17)
I have to ask, what was the least correct way that someone who was playing it, like what did they do that was just like, hmmm, that's not how you're supposed to do that.
Aerial_Knight (59:19)
Mm -hmm.
I think everybody who makes mistakes in the game makes the same mistakes. So it's never the least correct way. I think it's just like they misunderstand in the same way of what is...
asked of them from the game. It is not me like trying to choose my words carefully. It's me trying to like understand the right way to say it, you know, because I'm like, it's not their fault, you know, it's more if it's anybody's fault, it's my fault for like kind of like doing it in a way that they didn't understand or not like holding their hand enough. But I want to do that to a certain point. You know, I'll do that for the first couple of levels. But then, you know, you got this far, you know.
Junae (1:00:05)
Yeah.
Aerial_Knight (1:00:25)
get good or, you know, or put the thing down, you know.
Junae (1:00:32)
Yeah, I get it. Well, that's pretty noble of you. You know, I felt like I played some games where I felt like what am I supposed to do? Like I'm still lost after playing it for like an hour or two, you know, and that's not a good feeling. That's just not a good feeling.
Aerial_Knight (1:00:44)
Yeah. But that's why we make it simple, you know, it's a simple game. It's only four buttons for each character. So, you know, after a couple, a couple goes at it, you get it, you know. Other games, though, other games, you know, they take forever to tell you certain things. You get halfway through the game, you find out a new button that you didn't know about. I don't really.
do that, you know, the characters do the same thing at the beginning of the game as they can at the end of the game. And it's all about you getting better. It's not about them getting better.
Junae (1:01:19)
Neil, the people want to know me. I'm the people.
Aerial_Knight (1:01:22)
Keep going on.
Junae (1:01:25)
When are you making a rhythm game?
Aerial_Knight (1:01:29)
I will never make a rhythm game. Rhythm games are very hard. They're very hard and you know, it's very music based. You pretty much have to have all the music done first. And it sounds like a headache, you know?
Junae (1:01:32)
away.
Okay, in two years I'll ask again. Okay. Okay. Well, you heard it here first. Aerial Knight is not making a rhythm based game.
Aerial_Knight (1:01:46)
My music, my game's always gonna have dope music though, if that's the question.
Exclusive. World premiere.
This interview is gonna be like 60 minutes. You need to cut this down to like, what, five minutes, 10 minutes? That's a lot of cutting you gotta do. You don't just put it up raw like this.
Junae (1:02:13)
I don't have to cut nothing.
It's raw, like raw, like sushi, like straight. Yeah, I mean, like I'll put it together, but it's gonna be.
Aerial_Knight (1:02:20)
Okay.
It says raw dog in it.
Junae (1:02:34)
you want to know? I tell this story a lot but like not a lot of people know because they usually don't tell it like on recording. So I used to be a teacher and I used to have an after -school program because it was like mixing education and entertainment and it was with gaming so I would teach the kids like how to code a little bit, how to do like some narrative design. This was like 2014 -2015.
Aerial_Knight (1:02:39)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. -huh.
Junae (1:02:56)
And then, you know, the parents used to be like, so like, what are the kids going to do? And I was like, yeah, you know, well, today we just kind of had like a free day. So we were free while in it. I didn't know what that meant until years later.
I have been using it. I have been using it to be like.
Aerial_Knight (1:03:14)
I can understand now knowing that meant I didn't even think about it until you said that, like that.
Junae (1:03:20)
Exactly. Exactly. No, I was just telling people I was I don't know what I was doing, but I was like, yeah, we're just freeballing it today. He was like, Do you know what that means? I was like, yeah, we just like shooting in the gym. We just we just shoot in like we're not. And he was like, no, it's like these people have been giving me their kids for years. Concerning. Are they concerned? my God.
Aerial_Knight (1:03:21)
Did somebody get offended?
That's what sound like. Yeah, that sounds like it.
Now the kids walking around saying that.
Junae (1:03:48)
And I'm like the most PG person, you know? So like if the kids learned something, I would have been like, you know, because they just pick up on things. Like, I remember this one kid, we didn't have like enough scissors or something like that. And I like had the big scissors, right? They were like in fifth grade. I had the big scissors and I'd like put them down on my table. And I think I literally like went to go pick up something. And the kid took the big scissors because he had glasses and started.
poking at his glasses and I was like, Jesus. I was like, put it down. But you know, you can't be like, put it down. I was like, put it down, please. And I was like, we'll just wait. Well, you're not gonna use the big syzpheas. We'll just wait.
Aerial_Knight (1:04:21)
no.
Junae (1:04:35)
He was like laughing like, haha. I was like, I almost went to jail.
Aerial_Knight (1:04:40)
No, I was a camp counselor for a long time. I had to deal with a lot of kids. They show us something. They are something. I had the older kids too, so it was a lot worse. Yeah.
Junae (1:04:52)
The older kids, the older kids will have you be like, square up. You're big enough. It's fine. Come on, square up.
Aerial_Knight (1:05:01)
I really wanted to fight this one kid because he was like, I would never call a kid racist, but this kid was racist. He doesn't know he was racist and he didn't know he was racist. And then like he had a black friend and he treated these kids so terribly. And he would just be like, we're going to play cops and robbers. You're going to be the robber again. And like every day with this, like, you know, if it was one time I would have been like, you know, whatever, you know, it's just a bad look or whatever. And I was like, whatever.
Junae (1:05:07)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he didn't know.
Yay, yay, yay, yay, yay!
Aerial_Knight (1:05:31)
But it was every day he was like making this kid a robber. He was like, you know, saying, you know, he had the ache or whatever. Anybody who gets touched by him has it now too or whatever. And just like being so mean. But then we'll flip up and say, yeah, we're best friends and blah, blah, blah. So then they get into some trouble one time and I go to the black kid's mom and I'm like, hey, yo, you know, he's a great kid.
Junae (1:05:33)
And they don't know.
Yeah!
Aerial_Knight (1:05:59)
He's hanging around this other kid. It's not the best look and he's treating them a certain way. And then mom loses it and she's like, calls him over and he's like, what'd I tell you about hanging with him? I told you to stop doing this. She's like, you keep doing this shit. And I was like, this is like repeated behavior. Okay, it's not just me. It made me feel so much better.
Junae (1:06:17)
He's like, Johnny's my friend. He's like, what are you talking about? Johnny's my friend. We have fun. And you're like, nah.
Aerial_Knight (1:06:24)
Yeah, I felt better. I was like, okay, I'm not crazy. Like, because I felt terrible having to bring it up to I was like, it's supposed to be a fun thing. You know, it's not, you know, whatever.
Junae (1:06:28)
Yeah, no. Man, man. Yeah. It's hard to be the person to tell, right? To be like, hey, like I was.
Aerial_Knight (1:06:38)
And I got yelled at. It was like, you're not supposed to like, you know, I was like the fun camp counselor who was supposed to be like there to play with the kids or whatever. And there was another camp counselor who is supposed to talk to like parents or whatever. But this is like very much a black conversation. So I was like.
Junae (1:06:43)
yeah. Yeah.
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you couldn't, they would have been like, what's the problem? They're just playing cops and robbers or like, yeah.
Aerial_Knight (1:06:55)
Right. But the mom understood, you know, so it was all good. And I was like, why am I getting yelled at? Mom's cool. She appreciated it. You know, the kids acting better.
Junae (1:07:03)
You didn't do things the way they wanted. That's always the reason to get yelled at in an education facility or anything field with kids. They're like, there's a way we do things. You didn't do that.
Aerial_Knight (1:07:10)
Yup.
Yeah, you didn't do X, Y, Z. You didn't follow protocol or whatever. I'm like, OK. Did it get done? Right. Are all the kids alive? We're good.
Junae (1:07:21)
Yeah. Okay. Literally. You'll never see me again. Bye.
Are they fed? Are they alive? Everyone has survived the day.
Aerial_Knight (1:07:32)
All right.
Junae (1:07:38)
Wow, we got through a lot today. Love personal stories. We did great. Do give us an exclusive.
Aerial_Knight (1:07:39)
Yeah.
Yeah, I did. I told you I was a camp counselor and told you, I told you so much. That's exclusive.
Junae (1:07:56)
Okay, anything you want to tell the people, Neil?
Aerial_Knight (1:08:00)
Whoever's left, whoever made the end of this. Yeah, the game comes out July 16th. I worked very hard on it. I appreciate if you if you think, he doesn't need me, he doesn't need me to go give give the game a wish list. He doesn't need me to go buy the game. He has enough. You know, I don't. It's very hard out here. So please.
Even if you don't play these games, I'm not asking you just blind, blind by it or anything like that. We do have a demo out. Just check it out. Look at the trailer. If it seems like something that you might be interested in, take a look at it. Play it if if it's not your thing. That's cool. But if you want to support, you can always just share the trailer on social media and or just send it to somebody you think would like it. Now, that that means more than anything.
I really don't need much for this game to be successful. If we get like, I don't know, 30 ,000 people to buy it, play it or whatever, that would be amazing. I get to make another game.
Junae (1:09:11)
Yeah, 30k is not a lot of people. That's not a lot of people. Some. Yeah, like that's a very small amount of people. So I think we could do that. Yeah, very small town. Everybody knows each other and people are marrying their best friends.
Aerial_Knight (1:09:14)
It's not a lot. It's like a high school.
like a small town.
Yep. Yep. That's like all your followers. So if all of your followers who watch this podcast just whistlers the game and buy the game.
Junae (1:09:32)
All three thousand and twelve of y 'all. Thirty thousands.
Aerial_Knight (1:09:36)
30 ,000 you missed a zero. You don't get there.
Junae (1:09:41)
All 30 ,012, Neil is asking y 'all to do something and hmm.
Aerial_Knight (1:09:45)
So I'll follow Janae, watch her next video, watch her video before this, and then wishlist, we never yield, right? All of it. You can get up there so we can do more interviews like this. So we can talk about more of these bad ass kids. And I can also make more games. So we can do this every two years once I have a game come out. All right.
Junae (1:09:49)
Mmm watch all the videos go back
yeah.
Period, period, yep, because this is gonna be the podcast that people come on and they're like, man, Janaye's podcast really sells like 30 ,000 copies of games. We have to talk to her, so.
Aerial_Knight (1:10:19)
No, this is going to be the best thing ever because, you know, I'll have an accident. I fall off a roof or something like that. And they're going to be like his last interview.
Junae (1:10:28)
No, please! No, please!
Aerial_Knight (1:10:31)
That's no, this is that's what's when my game is going to blow up. They're going to be like, he's gone to bet like he made such amazing things that we didn't support. I want to stage it. Hey, look, if. I had an advantage, I fell off a roof.
Junae (1:10:37)
Maybe we could stage it, right? We can stage it. When the world needed Ariel Knight the most, he vanished.
It's really followed off the script, yeah. Okay. Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it, got it.
Aerial_Knight (1:10:54)
wouldn't it be awful if that actually did happen? And that's what I said at the end of this. I'm just saying, I'm just saying you blow up. You making a lot of money. So you're saying you would take the video down or you take the video down. Exactly, exactly. See, that's what I'm talking about. I'll try not to fall off a roof. I promise. I promise I'll try. I can't promise that, but you know, the moves be slippery.
Junae (1:10:57)
Neil, can we not? Can we not? Don't go on a roof. I don't know. Like, please.
No, because you've made a big sacrifice if you are.
You've already given me permission.
Yeah.
my gosh, this was a good laugh and a great interview. I learned a lot.
Aerial_Knight (1:11:33)
all funny until it happens. No, okay, I'll stop. Go ahead. You said this was a great interview. Thank you for having me.
Junae (1:11:40)
This was a great interview. This was a good laugh. Thanks so much, Ariel Knight, for joining me. And...
We never yield.
Aerial_Knight (1:11:51)
I threw you all off. You went from like, I'm calling you Neil, to now you calling me Ariel Knight. You gotta pick. Pick a side.
Junae (1:12:01)
Okay, okay, okay. Neil, thanks so much for joining us. And We Never Yield comes out July 16th. And it'll be available on like all platforms, right? Are you doing?
Aerial_Knight (1:12:03)
okay. All right.
Mm -hmm.
PlayStation, Xbox, and PC.
Junae (1:12:21)
PC. No Nintendo this year!
Aerial_Knight (1:12:24)
Nope. Why are you saying this year? Like there's still we'll see if people support the game. I can maybe pull some off, but you know. Yeah. No problem.
Junae (1:12:30)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Aerial_Knight (1:12:45)
Yes.
Junae (1:12:49)
Okay, sign off Neil. Tell the people goodbye. After all of the shenanigans we just had.
Aerial_Knight (1:12:56)
I just, I said it so many times. Okay, please go by. Everyone nice, we never yield.
That's all I got. That's all I got left.
Junae (1:13:05)
that works for me. This has been amazing. Thank you so much. And I got to redo mine too, because we're just here now. So this has been amazing. Thank you so much. And y 'all please stay safe. Wash your hands. Wash your butt. Game safely. You just have to put the reminder out there. You just gotta let the people know. Gotta let the people know.
Aerial_Knight (1:13:20)
Man, where does that come from?
Y 'all need to remind her we got bigger problems, but OK. OK.
Junae (1:13:32)
is doing my community service. Game safely. If you see something, say something. No, okay.
Aerial_Knight (1:13:39)
Just all the yeah, just all the segments. All right. Thanks, y 'all.