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Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Welcome and good morning.
Welcome and good morning.
What a fine day.
Is it?
I don't know.
Yeah, I think so.
It is sunshining.
What's the smoke level like outside today?
It was a little hazy, but we have to get better at these introductions because I gotta say, I've been listening because I still edit these podcasts.
You're bored of shit, aren't you?
I'm bored.
Like we just keep starting with the weather.
Like that's the literal most basic thing.
We have to follow the news then if we want to like give me something better than what's the weather today?
You know, it's just it's getting dry.
People are getting sick of it.
I'm getting sick of it.
You know what?
Okay, I have an idea.
Okay.
What?
What?
Well not for this episode, but okay.
Well he's writing it down, everyone.
I have an idea.
What?
What's one thing that you're looking forward to right now?
Oh yuck.
That's how you want to start it?
Mine my intro was I'm just gonna come up with dad jokes and I'm just gonna give you one dad joke at the beginning and you're gonna love it.
No?
Birds are chirping.
It's just like you mean crickets?
Oh crickets are chirping.
You don't have anything you're looking forward to that you want to share?
What's on your heart?
How is your heart?
There it is
I think I'm gonna quit this podcast soon.
That'd be perfect.
That'd be perfect.
We're so nice to each other.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn, hosted by my parents.
Jess and Scott.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Alright.
Luckily we have great listeners who send in emails
Very long emails with uh lots of detail and questions within them.
So a listener, Fanny, wrote in asking for discussion on what happens when the needs of a parent and the needs of a child are not necessarily compatible.
And she said she appreciates the common reminders about the importance of parental self-care and repairing mistakes, but feels the conversation needs to go deeper.
She's interested in the
quote unquote ugly bits, the difficult moments between a parent deciding their needs matter and the child benefiting from a less burnt-out parent.
She also questions the simplistic presentation of self-care, just in general.
And she highlighted that there are real-world financial and time constraints that make things like therapy or time away from a child difficult.
among many other self care uh things.
She also raised the issue of a parent struggling with their own mental health and its impact on their child or children, especially when they can't afford or immediately access help.
So Fanny felt like this was a deeply needed topic that isn't being discussed in depth online right now.
Huge.
I love that she brought this up
Yeah, it was a great, great email.
Really good.
Scott and I both read the email and immediately we're like, yes, we need to definitely talk about that.
Yeah, we've been getting quite a few more ideas lately from
Yeah, thank you.
We want your ideas.
I know you have questions for me, so maybe this is a question that you have for me, but just to start it on the human level, has there ever been a time when you've
felt this way?
Like your mental health was struggling so much that it was hard to kind of balance the need of taking care of yourself and also taking care of our kids and you felt like you kind of had to choose
Or you weren't quite sure how to do both?
Well, I want to say yes, but like when I had that major issue a few years ago now.
I don't know that I was No, no, I did think about that actually.
But I was able to rely on you.
Which maybe a lot of couples don't have that relationship where they can
rely on the other one and talk like I think we talked about that at the time, that I needed to rely on you.
But then we also had other stresses, so then we were both kind of stressed.
So me dealing with some mental health issues and then having other stresses in our life.
I d I don't know.
It was just a stressful time.
We had a few years there that were very stressful.
And of course that comes out in your parenting.
Yeah
Of course, I was thinking about it this past week, how there have been several situations, especially with whatever, with work, where I feel like we're just so stressed about
certain things that are going on that even when we're home, especially because we work together, then we're talking about it more and it's hard to not be distracted by that always.
So then you're having a hard time actually being together with your child or your children.
It's really hard to be present when your brain is somewhere else.
Or your nervous system is activated because you're having like for you, some sort of trauma response in your body, right?
Yep.
I feel like during that time you're probably a little more irritable with the kids.
Like it just it was probably more difficult to parent than when you're coming from a calm, regulated place where most things in your life are going decently well.
Yeah.
It's just it just is
And same for me.
I totally related to the thing where she was like, you know, it's not always realistic to get out of the house or to go to therapy.
I think of
after our third daughter was born, especially those first couple months postpartum, but then really the first year, she didn't take a bottle ever.
So then you're home with you have all your kids.
You have a baby who doesn't take a bottle, so really the max you can be away from them is like two, three hours at a time.
And she didn't really sleep through the night for the first year and a half.
And I was also working
So basically if you have all those things in place and I was trying to support you with your mental health crisis, like the idea of, oh, just go to therapy or go do a yoga class or take care of yourself, that wasn't even in my head
Because it was like I was just in pure survival mode.
So I could totally relate to what she was saying.
Like we talk about self-care now, but we're in such a different position than we were in the first time.
Well I will say we don't love the word self-care.
I'm not a huge fan of that word.
Yeah, I feel like we'll go we'll dive into that.
But we do talk about that it's okay to take care of yourself, right?
But there have definitely been seasons in our parenting where taking care of yourself was kind of
it wasn't even really a thought on our minds because it was basically like how am I gonna make it to tomorrow?
Holding all the things that we're doing, juggling all the things that we're doing.
and try and not have a panic attack and keel over.
I don't know.
I feel like we've had those seasons.
So I just wanted to acknowledge that from the start, it I could really relate to what she was saying.
And now we're out of it
And I look back and I'm like, how did we do that for so long?
It was really hard.
Do you think part of that is just having three very young children?
Yeah, being close together in age, like it's just a
The kind of the reality of Do you get burnt out?
I think being in that season of having those babies back to back and just having the little like our kids are still little but
They're older now.
They're not in diapers.
They don't really nap anymore.
They all have school or preschool.
It's just such a different stage than when we had a toddler.
who didn't sleep and a baby who didn't sleep and a five year old who needed us for everything.
It was just there's sometimes there's no way around a lot of it.
Right.
And in hindsight, I think that there is things that we could have done differently that would have set us up a little bit better during those times.
So hopefully we can talk about that today
But sometimes seasons are just hard and it is about survival and it is about what are the tiniest things that I can do to take care of myself instead of seeing self-care as like
I have to go to therapy or I have to go to a yoga class or I have to get out of the house.
I think even that pressure to feel like I have to get out and I have to do these things can actually weigh you down too.
Like I remember thinking that like
my brain would sometimes get stuck, right?
Like if I can't get out and do one thing for myself this week, then this week is gonna be terrible and I'm not gonna feel good and da-da-da-da-da.
But sometimes that doesn't help you either if that's not the reality that week
But yeah, I want to I do want to talk about things I think we could have done differently, but we'll get your questions and start there.
Well, I I kind of wanted to start with
How do you handle the moment your need for a break clashes directly with your child's demand for attention?
Yeah.
Because yeah, like we were saying, a few years ago, we definitely had this.
Especially I think we've had it significantly more with our children being
younger.
Mm-hmm.
So like I don't know, between the newborn to five year old stage, maybe a little bit older too.
I don't know.
They're
less able to play independently so you can actually have that break to like well even something as simple as making dinner you'll have
one of the children or potentially two or all three of them kinda clinging on to you as you're trying to make dinner or you're trying to do laundry or you're trying to do anything.
you have them clinging to you.
So you it's not like you even get a break to do any one of those things.
I think where I see this come up for us now is our children's day up a little bit later.
And so I see it come out for me where it's like m
I've put them all to bed.
They've all had maybe even thirty minutes of my time at bedtime.
And then our oldest, I get sometimes a little bit triggered and she'll be like
Mommy, stay with me longer, stay with me till I fall asleep.
And in my head, I'm like, we've had a nice discussion.
I've asked you all sorts of questions.
We've talked about your day.
It's still gonna take me another twenty-five minutes laying here if I s lay here with you till you fall asleep.
And then basically I might as well go to bed.
Yeah.
You know, like that
30 minutes, that's my only real time to myself all day.
And so then I feel this competing, like she wants me to lay with her and I want to do that
And at the same time, if I do that, then I have zero time for myself.
And that's gonna also make me feel resentful.
So sometimes there is that clash, right?
Yeah.
And there are times when I say to her, we've had our time together and I know you want me to stay, but I am gonna go downstairs now.
Like I I also need that time to be a good mom.
So that's an example of where that comes into play now
And then she'll be sad.
And then that's hard because then you feel guilty about it.
And what I know now, what I learned, is that that's okay.
For her to be a little bit sad.
It it's different if I don't give her any time, right?
But if that means that I get that 30 minutes where I can shower, take care of myself
refresh after a long day so that I can then turn and be the best mom I can be the next day.
Sometimes there is that give and take.
Now I will say some people will say that something like a shower should be considered self-care.
That's just a part of the Yes, I've gotten flack for that before.
Something that you that's not like an extra little thing that you should be
thankful that you have time to do.
Like that's a necessity for for you to have a shower.
So I mean I'm sure you'll get here and I'll talk about how I managed this in the early years.
But I think sometimes we build up in our heads so much of like
I have to have my self-care time, I have to have this, I have to have that.
That it actually becomes, and I want to say it's delicately, because yes, of course we need time for ourselves.
We're still human beings.
on top of being parents and parents don't have to be martyrs that just give themselves fully to their kids and then have absolutely nothing left for themselves.
And
I think sometimes we build up our need for all these things for self-care so much that we forget the little ways that we can take care of ourselves when we're with our kids.
Or that maybe showering can be self-care.
Like for me, when I I took a shower last night, this literally happened last night.
Or our daughter's like, I want you to lay with me.
I already had stories with her, talked to her, blah blah blah
I'm like no hun, I have to shower.
I have to take care of myself because I haven't had time to do that yet today.
I've been going since the moment I woke up.
And okay, mommy, you know, sad face.
I give her a big hug.
I'll I'll check on you after and make sure you're sleeping
I went in the shower, took a long shower, you know, did the full shave, did the whole thing, cleansed my face, put on my
Moisturizer, my skincare routine, then I put on a face mask and terrified Scott when I got downstairs.
That was quite something to behold.
And so I think there's ways that you can make these little things.
Like it's not just a shower, you know.
I did the full thing and I felt really refreshed after that.
Like a hygiene shower, just washing your body off is a little different than taking time to do that whole routine.
And I felt really refreshed.
But something that also refreshes me is when I lay down with the kids and I don't rush through bedtime.
And I just take time to bond with them and get to know them and spend time with them.
Like to me that also feels refreshing.
And I think we don't talk enough about how sometimes time with our kids
can feel refreshing.
And I know that that's not self-care, that's not being alone, but sometimes I think we just build it up so much that I have to
do it alone.
Like being alone is the only way to take care of myself.
Yeah, right.
And I I push back on that a little bit.
But I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Because that also could just be me and my nature too.
Yeah, I th I think it is a little bit because I mean I don't mind putting the girls to bed and I do try to make it fun and everything and I try to enjoy it.
But at a certain point it's it's getting
To like get ready to go.
Time of night, I'm like, I have things that I have to do.
So if it takes significantly longer
Like well I have a bunch of work to do, like I have to replace some lights in the house or whatever.
Like I have things to do during the week.
So I try as soon as we're done work.
to spend time with the kids.
We go to the park or go for a walk, whatever.
But then I kinda want and again, doing those things is not necessarily self-care.
It's just stuff that I know.
that I need to do around the house.
So I try and set that boundary with them that it's already this time, so I've been with you for this long.
It's time for you to go to sleep now.
I have to go do some of my own things for the family or for me or whatever.
Yeah, and I think that's okay.
Yeah.
Well I'm even you don't need to feel guilty about that.
Well and yeah, I don't
Yeah, I don't I struggle more with the guilt stuff.
But I feel like that's because I know that as soon as I'm done work, I'm spending the rest of the the night with them until they go to bed.
And then after that
I have only a short amount of time to do other things for myself.
So it doesn't bother me as much that I have only a certain amount of time to do that.
So then I have to say, okay.
I actually let you go to bed a little bit later tonight.
That means that I can't read you two books or whatever or three books.
I can only read you one or two because
You need to go to sleep, it's a little bit later than normal, and also I have to do all these other things tonight.
Yeah.
to disappoint your kids sometimes, right?
To have them say, Oh, I wish you could stay longer and for you to actually model to them.
The and this I'm really talking to parents who have already really invested in their relationship with their kids here.
I mean I feel like there's parents on the flip side who
we would be like you need to prioritize your relationship with your kids a little bit more.
So I think Scott and I are speaking kind of and and that's most of you who are
Similar to us who already spend so much time investing in their kids that sometimes it's okay to say, I know you wish we could do five books tonight, but there's things I have to
get done around the house or there's things I have to do for myself tonight and so that means we can only do two.
I always think about a friend of mine who I was feeling so guilty.
one time on a work trip.
And I don't take work trips very often.
I'm really mindful of how often I go away.
But I was on a work trip and I was basically just like drowning in guilt for being away from the kids.
And then she just said
When your daughter is your age and she goes on a work trip, do you want her to feel this way?
Like would you be happy if she felt the same amount of mom guilt that you feel on a day-to-day basis
And like imagine you were the grandmother here and like your daughter was you.
Like what would you say to your daughter?
And I'd be like
I'd say you're a pretty good you're a pretty good mom, like and maybe just enjoy your work trip and give yourself some grace and know the kids are taken care of and stop beating yourself up thinking that you're the worst mom in the world for being away from them for two days
Right.
And I think that that mindset's really helped me a lot because I don't want and we have three daughters, but if we had sons, same thing.
Like I don't want our girls to grow up.
thinking that being an adult means giving everything to everyone else all the time to the point where you're drained out and so exhausted that you can't function.
That's not something I want to pass down to them.
And that really has changed my mindset to be like, it's actually okay for them to see me set a boundary.
It's okay for them to see me go to a yoga class one night and you put them to bed or whatever it is
that's actually okay so that they can see what it looks like for a woman to and or a man, right?
To take care of themselves and to rest and to do things that
fuel them and fill them with joy.
Like I want my kids to have that.
Now, do you not think though that this is I would say both of us try to be home as much as we possibly can.
Yeah.
Or we try and do as many activities with the kids as we possibly can.
And then we know some others that
Try and get away from their families as much as they possibly can.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's why I was like trying to clarify like who we're talking to here.
Uh so yes, I would say that's
True for our situation.
And that's part of the reason why I stopped doing the work that I did in the past because I was traveling way too much.
And I was thinking that that's not what I would want
Maybe I wasn't thinking that's not what I would want for a kid, but I was it was more I want to be more present for the kids because at that time I would go on a trip.
come back and I was almost interrupting the flow of the family.
Yeah, the flow of things that were going on at home.
Yeah.
So I kind of felt like I was a bit of an outsider.
They of course missed me and loved having me around, but I wasn't a part of any routine
Mm-hmm.
Right versus for you, like you're going once every couple months or something like that for maybe a maybe a week.
Yeah, maybe a week
I think that that's also true too.
So in terms of talking about self-care and I think first before we talk about taking care of ourselves, we have to talk about nurturing the relationship with our kids.
making sure that that's there.
And that's where I was trying to get to, where I was talking about how that in and of itself can be fulfilling.
Like I think we forget that nurturing the relationship with our kids can be fulfilling and it can make parenting less draining because you're feeling connected with your kids and you feel like
you have that solid relationship with them.
Whereas if our whole goal is like, how can I get out of the house as much as possible to take care of myself?
Well your kids are going to feel that.
And then they're gonna act out more and have more attention-seeking behaviors and and then you might feel like you need to escape even more.
So I feel like there is a point to that.
Like if we're trying to get away as much as we can, it does impact
the kids as well.
And I don't know, it it's so nuanced, right?
Like it's really hard to say.
Yeah.
Um sure there's a lot of different situations too.
And I mean, we're talking about our own experiences here, but I think even something like a single parent taking care of one or more kids on their own, there's no one else, like who who's gonna help?
Yeah, exactly.
You're you're in it every single day
Right, so I think, yeah, again, like you want to say, yes, take care of yourself, but then in the same sense, like, is that always realistic either?
So let's go back to talking about when you have the really little kids at home or thinking about like so for the first bunch years of our marriage, Scott just mentioned he traveled all the time for work.
So I was mostly
just me at home with our daughters at the time, taking care of them and we lived without family around.
So a lot of it was just me on my own taking care of them.
So how do we do self-care in those seasons of life
Right, where you don't really have a lot of support.
Your kids are really little, so they physically need you.
One thing that really helped me was trying to figure out little ways I could
bring in self-care into the things I was already doing.
So I'll give you an example.
Bedtime would be tough, especially when you were gone.
Mm-hmm.
Especially putting two kids to bed.
Yeah, two very young children to bed.
Yeah.
It was a lot.
So I would think to myself, what can I do that will bring me some joy within this bedtime routine?
So I would do things like
make myself a hot chocolate and a thermos and just be drinking that as I'm like getting the kids to bed and stuff.
Like just something and even like from a sensory
perspective like the heat of the tea or the hot chocolate would just kind of be calming to the s nervous system as I was going through that routine.
Sometimes when I would be rocking a baby for
hours and hours to sleep.
I would just bring my headphones and I'd listen to an audiobook or a podcast or even just calming music, like something so that I didn't feel like I'm just trapped in this chair and I can't do anything right now.
Or I'd watch a show on my phone.
Things like that, right?
And I wouldn't feel guilty about it.
Like some moms are like, I could never watch a show on my phone.
I feel too guilty to have the blue light around my baby while I'm nursing her or something.
I wouldn't worry about that
So I try and find it.
It's also there's studies kind of debunking that whole idea too.
Right.
So don't stress yourself out.
No.
It's more the the intellectual or the stimulation like from whatever is on the screen that
Cause you to stay awake, but anyways.
Or two of our kids w had these split nights.
So I feel like for like five years basically I was dealing with these split nights like
And it would always happen around a developmental leap.
And I used to get so enraged with these split nights because it what split night is basically means your child sleeps till like two in the morning and then they're awake from two to four
And then they fall back asleep.
And it's like it would always be two hours.
And so I would be in the room for two hours trying to get these kids back in their crib.
It just wouldn't work.
So eventually, and I know this goes against all the sleep advice
I would just be like, you're up.
I know you're gonna be up for two nights.
I know this is the developmental leap.
I would take them downstairs.
I would make myself a tea.
I would throw on a trash reality show and I got through a lot of seasons of trash reality TV.
Thank goodness it was without me.
And I would start to look forward to like
Oh, I can watch my show that I Scott doesn't want to watch.
Like this is my special show.
And we would be in the living room of our house until the baby would fall back asleep in my arms and I'd bring them back to bed and I would go back to sleep.
And those were like the little ways I took care of myself.
so that I didn't totally lose my mind.
And the kids were always still there.
But it's about thinking of like what can I do that will bring me some joy while I'm doing this hard thing in parenting.
And I found that those things really helped me survive some of the hard
Yeah, and I would say, well, okay, first of all, can we agree on using something other than self-care?
Because I already despise that term.
I know, because self-care you just think, bubble bath
And like getting my nails that I just think I could get my nails done 500 times.
If I'm coming home to three chaotic kids, the one who just wants to suck on me
All the time because they don't take a bottle.
Like it doesn't matter if I can get it doesn't matter how many times they have my nails done.
It's still hard, right?
I don't know.
I know that's like sounds crass, but like that is life.
That was life for a long time
It's too I don't know, maybe it's too mainstream.
I don't love that.
Bubble baths and candles.
Well, so for myself, I feel like while we know this about me, I need to move.
Mm-hmm.
In general.
But because I was traveling as much as I was
Uh I don't know that that was ever a problem.
I would always u I would use the hotel gym every morning.
Right.
Was I doing anything specific?
For myself at that time, not really, when I was home.
Do you remember me doing anything?
We would incorporate our again, this is incorporating our kids into things that we like to do.
Yeah, like we're going to do that.
We loved going to the farmers market.
Yeah, we would go to the farmers market and get
old fashioned donuts made by this Amish family.
And that would be pretty much every every Saturday.
And we liked doing that.
And it got us out of the house.
We didn't have to like cook or clean.
That would be our breakfast on Saturdays.
We still do that.
It's a ritual that we all like.
Well Jess gets to watch us every time, but Yeah, I mean I don't get to eat donuts because celiac problems.
But I actually love the ritual of donuts, even though I don't eat them, right?
And it's
So on Saturday mornings, donuts are for breakfast.
I feel like I know we don't want to use self-care, but that is a form of caring for ourselves.
So that Saturday mornings we don't have to do.
We don't have dishes.
We don't have to think about breakfast.
We know what it is.
If we have friends over, we know what we're serving them.
And sometimes we'll invite people over on Saturday mornings.
Everyone who knows us knows that in our house we have donuts on Saturdays.
So people stop by.
It's a time of togetherness.
And we're with the kids the whole time, but I do feel like it
brings us joy and satisfaction in our lives.
Another way is like Friday night pizza or takeout.
So every Friday and if takeout's not in the budget, like you can do frozen pizza or chicken nuggets or whatever you want to do, like simple dinners on Friday.
Yeah, like sometimes we make uh the pizza pockets.
Yeah, we'll make like uh in a homemade sandwich maker, which is honestly the kids like it better than regular pizza.
And if
If dishes are something that burns you out because you're struggling, you know, to stay on top of your house, do it on a paper plate.
Throw a blanket on the floor.
Like we throw a sheet on the floor.
You can use paper plates, watch a movie, and have like a cheap, easy dinner.
Like I think that's a way that, again, you can nurture yourself.
Oh, there it is.
You can nurture yourself
While you're still with your kids.
I think a lot of the things that we do in these really little years is is how do we take the pressure off?
And how do we make a lifestyle that's sustainable rather than just add in bubble baths every now and then.
Yep.
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
Scott was telling me that when he heard a question like this, he used to panic, but this time he had a plan.
And he said to our daughter, Thank you for asking.
Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
And that's a line that he learned straight from our new body safety and consent course at Nurture First.
So this new body safety and consent course is taught by me.
So Jess, if you listen to this podcast, you know me.
I'm a child therapist and a mom of three, and I have taught body safety and consent education for years.
This course takes all my years of experience teaching this education and gives you calm, age-appropriate language for body parts, consent, and boundaries.
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Safe touch, and you'll even teach them about their uh oh feeling.
There's guidance inside this course for the real life stuff, like tickling that goes too far, and even the difference between a secret and a surprise.
We made this course at Nurture First because research shows that body safety education helps kids speak
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And just full disclosure here, we are the creators of this course and we're so proud of it.
Why does it seem like kids have a sixth sense for
And needing us when we have the least energy.
At least it feels that way.
They do.
Our children are wired to be very in tune with their parents, right?
Because their world revol revolves around us
And if they sense that we are off and the only way they regulate is through our calm, they're immediately gonna be off.
I think of the times our kids have been most off
not listening or defiant or however you want to describe it, it's typically when we are most off.
And then it leads to this family culture of dysregulation.
Everyone's dysregulated.
Everyone's
amping each other up and it's really, really hard.
So I think in terms of what can you do about that, sometimes if you're going through a really difficult season, your kids just need to know that it's not about them and that they are safe and that they are okay.
Um do you think that would work for let's say our three-year-old?
No, probably not.
But for older kids, that can actually be helpful.
Older kids are very in tune.
Yep.
And I was just talking to someone the other day who
uh divorced parents and they were saying how they were getting or they were they are divorcing, but there was a lot of fighting in the house, the kids were getting really dysregulated.
And I was saying to them, well, the kids need to know that they're safe and that they're okay, right?
They see their parents dysregulated and upset.
And so they're joining into that chaos because they don't know if they're okay.
And they need to know the plan.
They need to know what's going on
Otherwise, they are dysregulated because their world revolves around your call.
So like I think for some kids, it's not telling them everything that's happening, but it's just letting them know it's not about you, you're safe
For our our littler ones, I was crying the other night.
I was having a really hard day, really stressed out, and our three-year-old was just beyond herself about it.
She hated it.
And
It was just letting her know, you know, it's okay for mommy to cry sometimes too, just like you cry.
You know, crying is okay, crying's important, and it's not your responsibility to calm me down
Like she kept trying to calm me down, she kept bringing me stuffies and stuff like that, I'm like, hun, I've got this, thank you.
Thank you for trying to comfort me, but
I'm not sure.
She's gonna understand that you're what you're saying though, is she?
I actually felt like she did.
And then I said, why don't we just cuddle on the couch and watch some bluey?
I think that would be perfect.
And then we did that, and then I was able to kind of pull myself together a little bit, and then we did the rest of the night and it was fine.
Yep.
But again, she needed to know it wasn't her responsibility to call me
and we needed to have something that maybe we could do together just to kind of help me get back to my regulation too.
Yeah.
But what do you think?
What do you think?
Because I like those are things I do, but when you were really dysregulated and the kids definitely felt it, what did you do to help yourself?
I definitely had conversations with them about it.
I explained exactly why I was feeling that way.
Pretty positive I talked to them but it's not their job to fix it for me or anything like that.
It's just because of the situation.
I don't know I don't know whether this is healthy or not, but I really enjoyed cuddling up next to one or a couple of them.
I feel like that was
That's a common thing for me is like I just like to cuddle up with the kids.
Mm-hmm.
Just remind myself of I think it's beautiful.
Yeah, okay.
That's good.
So it's not unhealthy then
As long as you're not depending on them for all your regulation, right?
But if they're willing to snuggle with you.
Yeah, it's more like I'll watch Bluey with them and I'll just kind of have them cuddled up underneath my arm.
I found in my most stressed out seasons, like there was nothing more peaceful to me than laying beside my kids until they fell asleep and just laying there for a few minutes beside them, right?
Again, that's where I think we forget about
how reciprocal our relationship with our kids can be.
Like they can also give us some regulation in column too.
Uh now do you think there's any difference between a parent who is very tired?
And a parent who is burnt out.
Yeah, I think they're two different things.
So what would you say is the difference?
Tired is.
I feel like that's important to discuss too, right?
Like if you're just really tired versus
you're completely burnt out.
I think they're quite different.
Yeah, I think tired is my kids kept me up late or they didn't sleep well this whole week and I'm exhausted.
So we're gonna have
two movie days in a row this weekend just so I can kind of get some energy back.
And that's fine.
That's parenting.
Everyone's gonna have weeks like that.
burnt out is this extended tiredness.
And I think one of the biggest signs of burnout is you're just not finding joy
in your life anymore the way you used to.
Like things that used to make you excited or happy or the hope that you used to have for the future.
Like when I see someone who's burnt out, they just they've lost those things.
Are you not potentially describing
Someone having depression?
Yeah, like I think there can be a lot of overlap between burnout and depression.
I think a lot of people who are burnt out are also depressed.
But I think burnout more so comes from you've had so much demand on you for so long that your body just starts saying no
Like I can't do this anymore.
And your mind starts saying no to and things just kind of start shutting down and totally it can lead to depression.
But I think when we're looking at burnout, we're looking at
what caused this.
And often for parents it's too much demand, too little help, too many things on their plate, with not enough things that are fueling them and bringing them joy again.
And it leads to this state of like almost like a freeze.
Like your body's just like you get really sick, your body tells you I can't do this anymore.
I know when I was burnt out, I was crying all the time.
I just w didn't want to get out of bed.
And a lot of it, yeah, is was also probably depression at the same time.
But if I looked at why I got there, it's because I was doing way too much.
for way too long and my body just said no more.
Now do you think uh social media has contributed to parents becoming more burnt out than ever?
I think it it can, absolutely.
Thanks.
I was looking at a bunch of research and it was showing something about parents who use social media and are on it for
like an extended amount of time are typically more likely to be burnt out or depressed or something like that.
I can't remember what it was now.
It's hard cause is it like a chicken or an egg?
You know, like
Are we on social media more because we're already feeling burnt out and then we're scroll endlessly scrolling looking for dopamine?
Yeah.
Well that and then you also have
To be honest, I think it's a good idea if you're listening and you follow anyone that is showing that they live live the perfect life.
Yeah.
it's not worth following that.
Or I think the opposite of that.
If you're following someone who's almost too relatable, like every single thing that they do is just relatable to your life, it's probably made up
Yeah, yeah.
I w I talked to my mom about this before because I was talking about like the pressure that social media can put on us.
I'll give you one example, a birthday party for a kid.
Right?
Like you see people planning these parties for their kids, and if you love to do it, good for you.
I have friends who love to do that and it gives them life
Right?
And they've planned these beautiful birthday parties for their kids.
They have the perfect cake and decorations and blah blah blah.
50 people over.
That would be the end of me.
Like when I do a birthday party when we do a birthday party for the kids, it's like a grocery store cake, three balloons, a handwritten sign saying happy like I'm
Being dramatic here.
But basically, actually not really.
We did have screamers the last couple couple times.
Oh yeah
But I did have help sending those streamers.
I didn't do that myself.
But yeah, we ha okay, we had a streamer last time.
Yeah, we had streamer and more than three balloons.
Yes.
So we've
amped up the balloon game.
But that's it.
The party's at our house and there's like a couple friends and that's it.
And I said to my mom, I'm like, when you look at this and you think to yourself, I have to do this
Right?
I have to do this for my kids and I have three of them.
The amount of time and money and energy that goes into that birthday party, let alone like then you have to attend all these other birthday parties and and your house has to be perfect and da-da-da.
Like all these things
I said, did you feel you had that pressure?
And she was like, yeah, I did.
Because Oh really?
Yeah.
She's like, I actually think like I she's on social media and
She follows nurtured first, but also she sees other things.
And she's like, I think parents of your generation, you feel like you're the first ones to have this pressure.
She's like, we still had it, maybe not as intense, but in different ways.
She's like, I can think of three of my friends who would have those birthday parties for their kids.
And we would all go to their house and we would know it would be a big to-do and then it would be time for your guys' birthday.
And I wasn't also like that.
And I would be like embarrassed almost or like feel like I had to put on this whole show.
And she's like, the pressure was still there.
It just maybe it wasn't that you saw it every single day
But you felt it because there were still those people in your life that did those things.
Yeah, I mean it's people who are even closer to you than.
Right.
And then she said, even your grandma, my grandma
She's like she had pressure on her to be thin, to look a certain way, to have a certain lifestyle, because there was magazines like I don't know, like a good housekeeping or I don't some magazines like that
that she would see and she would buy at the grocery store and she would look through it and think her house needed to look exactly like that and that her she needed to like lose weight or her body needed to look like that.
And she's like even grandma put a ton of pressure on herself
to make things look good.
And so she said, she's like, you guys maybe have more because it's it's more readily accessible, but this is not a new problem of people comparing themselves to each other and feeling like they're burning out because of it
And I thought that was actually helpful for me to understand and good to remember that these are not new struggles.
And like it would be really nice as that as parents if we could just be like, oh, good for you.
Not really my thing, but that's fine
Instead of feeling like we have to keep up with everybody and, you know, outdo each other.
Uh we've been doing this way too long, especially as moms.
Like I'm over it
I'm very upfront with my friends.
I'm like, if you come over, it's a fruit tray and it's takeout.
Like I'm not cooking you a whole fancy dinner.
And that's fine.
And I think when you can lean into what you're good at and what you like to be
To go back to the burnout, it really helps.
Like stop trying to become apparent that you're just not, just to keep up with everybody else.
It really, really
relieve some pressure when you can recognize that like for me, maybe I'm not the house that has the homemade gourmet meal when my friends come over
But I'll totally get you pizza and take out and we'll throw a towel or a sheet down on the floor and our kids will all watch a movie together and we'll hang out outside and chat and have a nice time.
Like that's okay.
I don't know what you think of that, but
I feel like a lot of this burnout that we do feel is these pressures that are so unrealistic that we put on ourselves to do things that just maybe aren't within our personality.
And then maybe someone like our our good friend, she always has the the dinner.
And it's a beautiful time, but she loves to cook and she loves it and it gives her life.
So great, she should do that then.
Yeah, I feel like this is another one of those situations that needs
Some nuance, because yeah, on one hand, you don't want to compare with others.
You don't want to necessarily feel guilty all the time for how you do things compared to others.
But then I think some people will take that again too far in the other direction, right?
Hmm.
Give me an example.
I'm just gonna do what I wanna do and I'm gonna go on friends weekends constantly and leave my kids at home and I'm gonna do
Whatever, all these different things for me because I deserve it.
Meanwhile, your kids still need you.
Yes.
Right, so I think there is kind of a middle ground on that where yes, make sure
that you're taking care of your needs as much as is realistic without forgetting that you still have children that are dependent on you.
Yeah.
And need that relationship.
I don't know if that's worded well, but I just think it could be taken too far in either direction, where it needs to be kind of a middle ground where yes, of course, every person needs to feel rested.
and to feel like their needs are being met.
But then you also have these children who are completely dependent on you.
They need you.
And they yeah, they need you 100%.
So then you can't then go so far where you're like constantly away and you're constantly I think I know what you're saying.
Let let me see if this makes sense to you.
If self-care to you means running away from your kids all the time, like just leaving them as much as possible, then there's some deeper things that you probably need to reflect on.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
Because for me
And for Scott and for many of our friends, self-care, again, we don't love that, so nurturing yourself is about we still have that relationship and that is always the first priority.
We know our kids are dependent on us and they need us for everything.
And that doesn't mean that we have to be a martyr that just gives and gives and gives of ourself to the point where there's absolutely nothing left.
And I have been that martyr.
I have been that mom who gave and gave and gave to myself until I had nothing left and then I got so sick that I was basically in bed for a month.
Because I just I had nothing left to give to myself.
And that's not fair to my kids either.
No, right.
You like you go too far in the other direction, I think.
In general.
Just for everyone, including our kids, I think that's the case.
But I also think there are people that will take that and go too far on the other.
Totally.
So there's two.
There's and and both are unhealthy.
So giving so much to your kids that you get so sick and burnt out and you literally can't even function.
That's not healthy.
And then you have to ask yourself, what are some ways I can take care of myself and take this burnout off my plate, right?
And then that's what we're talking about.
The things that you do with your kids, like the paper plates one night a week or takeout, or, you know, and then the other thing is
you know, maybe there are some boundaries you can set so you don't feel like that martyr.
But then to Scott's point, there's also the parents who just are like, the only way I can feel like myself is if I get away from my kids as much as possible.
And then I
In the same way as if you were being a martyr, I'd want you to ask yourself, what am I running away from here?
What is actually at a deeper level going on for me?
that I feel like the only way I can take care of myself is not being home.
Right?
Because I feel like those parents, there is often something else going on.
Whether it's too hard to connect with my kids, I feel
like their behavior is bothering me too much, like I have to get out, I'm stressed out about my own life.
Like there's something deeper there if self-care to you means
running away.
So we really we have to question kind of where it's coming from.
Yeah.
And not let it replace the relationship you have with your kids.
Yeah, for sure.
I think all parents can probably honestly say that we've messed up and lost our cool.
And you've talked about repair before.
So what does that what does a real effective apology to a child actually involve?
Because let's say, okay, we're tired, we're burnt out.
So the reality is we can't nurture ourselves all the time
So then we're tired or burnt out and then we snap at them.
Of course then you feel guilty again for having done that.
Yeah, it's like this cycle now.
I feel guilty again.
So how do you how do you act like what does a repair actually look like in that situation?
I actually answered this on Nurtured First on the QA I did last night.
Oh.
And someone said, how many times do I have to apologize if I've really yelled at my kid or something?
And I actually said, apologize sincerely once, make sure they understand you, and then let your changed behavior be your actual apology
I think sometimes we apologize way too much for our kids.
And it actually over apologizing makes our kids feel a little bit unsafe.
Because it's actually a little bit like, can they really trust our leadership if we're coming to them like begging for apologies
Kids need the one apology in a sincere way, but what they really need to know is that we're gonna do everything under our power
To change the way that we behave so that we don't keep yelling at them.
Our words are essentially meaningless if we keep doing the same thing, right?
So let's say you've
had a day and you just feel like you snapped all day long.
The apology comes at night, you know, I'm sorry.
I just I had a really hard day and I took it out on you.
That was not fair.
And you're obviously saying that this has to happen when you as the parent are cooled down.
Yeah.
Yeah, don't apologize in the moment.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Kids can read right through a fake apology, right?
So I like to apologize when I'm calm.
We come back.
Hey, I'm so sorry
I was had my own thing going on.
I was really stressed out about it.
And I snapped at you and that was not fair.
You know, next time I have my own thing going on, maybe I'll just let you know that I need some space
Or, you know, I'll try and work that out on my own without snapping at you.
And then the real apology happens when the next time I do have my own thing going on, I do what I said I was gonna do, right?
And so I think we need to hold that accountability as parents too instead of just apologizing over and over because it actually threatens our leadership a little bit if all we do is say sorry, but we don't actually make change.
Right.
So what you're saying is apologize sincerely when you are calmed down.
So not in the moment, but don't over apologize.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a if it is sincere, that one apology.
Means a lot, but then you have to actually make change.
And that doesn't mean not messing up in the future.
You might mess up the next day and apologize again, right?
That's different.
But using the repair or the apology doesn't mean you can you just have free reign to then yell whenever you want either, right?
Like it means that you I think kids are smart enough to see that you're actually trying or not trying.
Yeah.
I think that makes sense.
We need to take accountability for our own words and actions too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean we're adults, so that makes sense.
So for parents with very little time, uh very little money.
Little to no village to support them.
What does self-regulation actually look like?
How can they regulate themselves better so that they don't necessarily snap?
when they are feeling tired or burnt out.
And again, this is, of course, we want to talk about nurturing yourself, doing things that fill you up, but just in general.
I don't know, it's a busy week.
You bring the kids here or there, you're in school, you're coming home from work, you're trying to get lunches ready.
Like it's it's pretty hectic having young kids.
Okay, so let me just give you some examples of what I did in those seasons.
Because we've definitely had those seasons where we had very little money, very little time, and no support.
Yep
So some things that I did and take take it or leave it, I would build my day in a way that would feel exciting to me and would have things that I would look forward to.
So for example, I took my kids to do a lot of free stuff and in those seasons when I had two little kids at home, I would always try and get out in the morning.
So
Getting out of the house really helped my mental health because when I was home all day, I found that I lost my cool a lot more.
So
I would every morning try and get out to a playground to like um go for a hike with the kids.
It was always something free.
And
I would bring a coffee from home in a thermos, pack them whatever snacks I had at home.
It's not like we had to go out and buy other snacks or anything like that.
Bring their waters and we would just get out in the morning
And that helped me have one thing to look forward to every day.
And I would choose the activity that we were doing.
It got us out of the house so that the house wasn't a disaster in the morning because the mess would really trigger me.
And
the kids just kind of got to know that routine.
Now that's when I was like at home with the kids with the kids, right?
And then we would get back, I would feed them lunch, something simple, and then it was nap time and I would make my older daughter have a quiet time.
So whether that was watching a movie.
or being quiet in her room, but she would have to have that quiet time so that I had at least an hour and a half where no one needed me and I could clean the house.
I could
do something for myself.
That was every day.
So one thing that we can do is really take like a helicopter view of your the way you're structuring your time and ask yourself, could I structure this in a different way where maybe it would bring me a little bit more joy
while I'm still with the kids.
Right.
None of that involved being away from my kids, but it it fully changed our routine and our structure to make some there's things I looked forward to.
And we checked out like every playground in our city.
Like that's what we would do.
We would always go to a different one.
And we would go to different hikes.
And it just got us out.
And that was my saving grace in those hard moments.
And then as I explained before, when I had to do bedtime by myself, it would be like, okay, what book do I want to listen to?
I got into listening to comedy podcasts.
So I had something funny in my ear.
You know, I would always make my tea or my decaf coffee or my hot chocolate to take with me during the bedtime routine.
And none of these things costed me extra money.
And they all were with the kids because I just simply didn't have support at the time based on where we lived and our life.
But it did help me feel like I could get through the day.
And then the other thing I did that did help was join some groups.
So I ended up joining like a mom's group at a local church that I didn't even go to.
And
Then I knew one morning every week I would see other moms and we would just and they had like a childcare there and we would get to just chat and that was free too.
And it gave me a chance to meet other people and talk to them and hear their stories and that would always fill me up.
So there's
I think if you don't have a village and you're home with your kids, I would be asking yourself, like, is there any free groups I can join?
I think most states
But isn't that just one other thing to do?
It depends on your personality.
Yes, it was something for me to do, but it was very life-giving.
for me.
And I think a lot of moms.
It's about finding the right group.
Like I joined some other groups and they were kind of draining and not life giving.
But the stay-at-home mom life, like right now I'm just kinda talking to moms who are in that season.
Often you don't talk to another adult
for the entire day, right?
I needed to hear some adult conversation that really helped me feel like myself and really got me through because
When you go to a group of moms and everyone's like, oh, I didn't sleep last night either.
It's like, oh, okay.
So I'm not alone in that.
I feel normal.
And then the other thing was for me also finding the things that I liked.
And so at that time, that's when I actually started
Jessica Grace blog, like I was working on it at that time.
And it gave me something that felt like me, something that I enjoyed doing, reading research, analyzing it, writing blog posts on it.
That became nurtured first for anyone who is new to the podcast.
But
Finding those little pieces of myself, I think, was really helpful too.
But all of that was done with the kids around and it was still hard.
I didn't make that easier.
There's still tons of days I cried and cried myself to sleep and had a hard time.
Like it it's so physical and emotional and exhausting when you're in those stages.
And those things really did help
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you have any anything to add to that?
I would say as the kids have gotten older and there's almost an expectation to put them into extracurricular activities.
I would personally
recommend reducing the total numbers.
So you're not doing something different every single night.
You're not out bringing if you have a couple kids or something like that.
Even one, but you have them in multiple things in the week if you're already drained out.
taking them to another extracurricular event or activity doesn't make sense to me.
Okay, so now if we fast forward to now, the ages our kids are at now, so school age.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's how we take care of ourself.
So we don't do tons of extracurriculars.
Yeah, and our two older daughters are in the same extracurricular and actually
Our middle daughter goes once a week, our older daughter goes twice a week, but I go with them and actually participate in karate.
once a week with them too.
Yeah.
So it's kind of like we've combined it all and I'm also getting my movement in.
Yeah.
And I get to do this fun activity with my my daughter and hopefully
As they all grow, they all join and I get to do it with all of them.
So again, that's nurturing yourself but doing it together with your kid, right?
So it's it's perfect
So I think we do that, but that's it for extracurriculars.
We try and really limit it.
We try and have at least one day on the weekend where we're home.
Yep.
And people will come to our house.
Like our house
We are, I feel like definitely the hosting house.
We have people over quite often, but we'll have them over for donuts on Saturday morning, or we'll say, hey, we're home on Sunday, you can come to our house.
But we do try and be home at least one day on the weekends
I'm very mindful of how many work trips I schedule for myself.
And we talked about how it's okay to not to go and not feel guilty, but also
We try not to overschedule being gone.
That really helps the whole house stay regulated.
You have your things that you do for play
Which I think a lot of parents have lost their ability to play.
What play looks like, you know, you can tell people what you do for play.
I don't know, 3D printing, Nintendo's old like retro Nintendo stuff.
Honestly, I just like building things.
Building things.
So that's a lot of what I do.
Like any project I do for our house, it's usually me designing something first, some modeling it up first, creating drawings for it and then building it.
And it's just something fun that I enjoy doing.
Yeah.
I find that in this season, because the kids are older, you know, making sure that they help us
clean up the house so that the house isn't always a disaster.
We actually get rid of toys fairly often and like make sure, even simple things like that, so that the house doesn't feel too cluttered.
Like I joke, but I love going to the thrift store dropping stuff off
Just that even simple things like that help.
Although I you continually have been making the mistake of bringing the girls with you and then buying them something from the thrift store.
completely defeats the purpose.
Yeah.
I joined yoga this year for the first time and that is definitely a privilege.
But again, like I wanna give people some hope.
It's like I had years and years of like I couldn't leave the house.
Yeah, now that the weather's nice too
You'll be biking.
I'll be biking, but then we'll also go hiking and everything.
We live close to uh like a lot of hiking trails around us, so then we we like to do that as a family.
And Scott and I are good and if you have and I know again this is a privilege, but if you have a partner
See how you can swap off.
Like Scott is very good about on Saturday mornings before donuts.
I go to my yoga class
Right?
And you never make me feel guilty for doing that and you hang out with the kids on Saturday mornings while I go do that.
Right?
And
There will be a time very soon where you start biking, and maybe that means I have to do some extra stuff at the house because you're biking to work or whatever.
And I will not guilt you for going biking.
Right.
And I think that there is that really important part of your relationship if you are in one where you have to give each other the space to do things for themselves.
without guilting them or making them feel bad about it.
And that nurtures not only them as a human being, but also their ability to show up for your kids and for each other too.
Yep.
Okay, what I found in the research for in preparation for this episode was that there seemed to be the recommendation for self-compassion over self-care.
So I was wondering if you could potentially speak to that and why self-compassion might be more critical than self-care.
Absolutely.
I think that's actually a lot of what we've been talking about today, right?
The guilt
the guilting yourself.
I think it's incredibly important to have compassion on ourselves.
Like you said, though, you know, not to mean, oh
I'm so compassionate on myself.
I can do anything I want and I can do no wrong, right?
Like that's also unhealthy.
Yeah.
But I I was gonna say that I feel like guilt, it's a human emotion.
So
There must be times where there's a reason for feeling it, right?
Not maybe crippling guilt, but I don't know.
I feel like it's there for a reason.
It helps you kind of guide yourself a bit
Not that it should again it shouldn't like cripple you and riddle you with anxiety because you feel guilty for having yelled the one time or having done this one thing one time and
I think we all deal with it different.
Yeah.
Like as someone with anxiety, guilt to me can feel crippling and I can be so hard on myself that it's ridiculous.
But guilt for others can be a really helpful and important emotion to listen in.
I think guilt can tell us, okay, something happened here that maybe doesn't align with my values.
Just ask yourself, why am I feeling guilty?
Where is this coming from?
And then you can find out if, okay, so I'm feeling guilty because I yelled.
Well, that's actually a pretty good feeling.
Like if I didn't feel guilty about yelling, I'd be more worried.
Okay, so I can apologize and try and do things different.
Or if you're like me and you just have crippling guilt over everything, then the question is, okay, is this guilt really serving me here or am I now just beating myself up?
I have apologized, I'm changing my behavior.
I can let the guilt know I don't need you to take over my mind, and I can have some compassion on myself
Right?
I'm a human parent.
I'm gonna make mistakes.
I'm not gonna do everything perfect.
That's okay.
The relationship I have with my child can actually withstand me not doing everything perfect all the time.
And
how can I give myself grace?
Because if I can't do that for myself, I'm like this helps me.
Like if I can't give myself grace, I'm also
Gonna teach my kids to be like really hard on themselves and never give themselves grace because they're gonna see me as the model and I don't want that for them either
So I've really had to practice just who I am, giving myself extra grace and reminding myself that all humans make mistakes and I don't need to be perfect in order to be a good mom.
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
So we talked about social media and
I don't know, all the pressures, so whether it's because of social media or not, or amplified because of it.
But in a world where I feel like there's a lot of conflicting advice about even
the idea of self-care versus attending to your child's needs.
Not that they are necessarily opposing, but how can parents learn to trust their own intuition?
again.
If they've lost that ability.
You like how I set you up for that?
Yeah, you really set me up for the book.
You know it's so funny because this whole conversation I I actually have had the book in my mind
Um if you had didn't know, I just announced uh a couple weeks ago that I'm writing a book.
It's official now, so we can share it.
But in the book I really talk about how tuning in with our own intuition, a lot of it is actually remembering what it was like to be a kid.
Right.
And remembering the things that we were good at and the things that we knew and the things that we were capable of as children before the world kind of taught us how to think and
taught us to not trust ourselves.
And so I think even with our in terms of this self-care and feeling guilty and like this discussion too, two things.
First, remember the things that brought you joy when you were a child
The things that you liked to do.
Because often those are the things that are gonna help you feel more at peace now.
And I think for me, things like swimming.
Like I loved to swim as a kid.
It was like my favorite thing to do in the whole world
And then over time I just like lost the chances to do that and even lost the confidence to like want to go in a bathing suit and jump in the pool.
Right.
And then last summer my daughter's like, can you do cannonballs with me in the deep end
And I was like, yeah, why why not?
And we just did cannonballs over and over.
And I had the time of my life.
Like it was such a blast.
And it was the first time in a while that I just felt like I was just having fun.
You know?
So I think sometimes in our most burnt out seasons, it's like
Remember what you used to do that brought you joy and helped you have fun.
And try doing those things now.
And maybe try doing them with your kids and see if that brings some joy back
And then in terms of tuning in with your intuition, you know, kids are so good at this.
Like I feel like naturally kids are very like they're led by their impulses, right?
But they're also led by like they kind of know what they want to do and say and they don't really think twice about it, even if
It's the wrong decision.
But they're very in tune with themselves.
And so that's a lot of being driven by impulses.
Yeah, they're they're driven by impulses.
And eventually they learn how to control them, but sometimes we learn how to control our impulses too much, where we don't trust ourselves at all
And I think sometimes for parents you have to ask yourself before you ask everybody else in your life, what is it that I actually want to do right now
Like what matters to me in this moment?
What do I think the right answer could be?
And I think when it comes to child rearing, we just rely on every other expert in the book, right?
or on Instagram or whatever, instead of asking ourselves, what do I believe is the right thing?
And I know that that happened to me, especially around sleep.
when our oldest was born, I just relied on everyone else to tell me how to get my kid to to sleep, right?
And we ended up we've talked about this before, but we ended up sleep training her cry it out and
everything in my body was like, this is wrong.
This is not what I want to do.
But because some expert said I had to do it, that's what I did.
And over time I learned to tune back in with that instinct.
And I think it helps us a lot, even with tantrums and all these things, right
And I write a lot of these style of posts on Instagram, but if you don't know how to respond to your child in a moment, just quickly pause and be like, okay, imagine I'm three.
Imagine I'm on the floor right now having a huge tantarum and I'm looking up and I see my mom looking down at me.
What would I want?
Just ask yourself that
And usually that's enough to be like, oh, all they really need from me is just to sit beside them while they cry.
Oh, okay, I can do that.
Right?
Like it's actually, I think parenting's a lot more intuitive than we think, but we've it's just gotten lost.
So I want parents to tune back in with that
I think that's a great place to stop.
I hope you enjoyed this format.
I used a little less research this time.
So I don't know.
I'm trying to try to figure out with these episodes how we
I do feel like this topic calls for a bit more personal stories and a bit more just nuance.
But I'm so glad that this question was asked and I hope that this helps.
Yeah, thank you, Fanny, for sending that in.
That was uh we appreciate that.
And I hope you can give yourself some grace if you are in this situation and know that it usually doesn't last this long forever.
It will get easier.
If therapy's an option and you're feeling this way, then that's great.
And just one last thing, sorry.
We haven't talked enough about community today too, but if there are people in your life that you can lean on.
Like I think we have become this society that is so individualistic and like we all think that like we all feel like we're in these silos raising our kids.
It's just not meant to be that way.
And I know when I was feeling like I was in asilo raising our kids, it was the most difficult thing in the world.
Now we live near family.
We're privileged enough to have some help from some family members and, you know, friends that live close by.
But
If you have anyone in your village, see how you can lean on them.
See how you can go out to mom groups or whatever it is to build that village because
Truly, we do need a village to to do well and we're not meant to do this by ourselves.
Well said.
All right.
Well, we'll talk to you next week and and let us know if you have any topics that you'd like us to cover as well
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