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S6 EP9 | Following in the Marvel Studios Special Presentations of Werewolf By Night and The Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special, the studio demands a Thunderbolts tie-in exploring the past missions of the former villains turned heroes.
Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media
Hello and welcome to the studio demands it an exercise in creative thinking where we will conceptualize, pitch and craft a film or series based on the demands of one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. Hypothetical. As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time.
JIM:Cinephiles.
T.C.:God, you're changing it up over here. We'd like to believe that we could meet any demand thrown at us. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am TC DeWitt, and joining me as always is Jim Hopscotch Burzelic. Jim.
JIM:How'd you know? Hopscotch. How did you how did you find that out?
T.C.:You have a even an old old world vibe to you. Like, I I I see you as a man who you're always skipping. You're always throwing down rocks
JIM:and and I knew. I knew I had to tell.
T.C.:Yeah. That's your hopscotch. Did you ever play hopscotch?
JIM:Yeah. Hopscotch and Foursquare.
T.C.:Oh, man. Foursquare. Mhmm. Do like, Foursquare, I think, had, like, playground rules. Yes.
T.C.:Where, like
JIM:So to that end, like, I actually played Foursquare.
T.C.:Like the actual
JIM:But like hopscotch, you would hop the line. Mhmm. We we never had like the stone to like skip one or whatever that was. But you hop the line and you do that maybe three, four times and you're like, okay. Next.
JIM:We're good here. Let's just go to a different part of the playground.
T.C.:Oh, man. It's just Hopscotch is one of those, like, old school games. They still have them, like, painted on the ground in, like, school. But it's like that's that's gotta be a set two centuries, like, as an ancient game.
JIM:I think it's it was most I I I popular is a weird word to use for it, but I I was most enthused to try hopscotch
T.C.:Mhmm.
JIM:When I was still too little to easily jump from square to square.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:So right when you have to hop on one leg from one square to the next square Mhmm. And you're two feet tall because you're four.
T.C.:Well, I I was that's that's a challenge. Yeah. I gleaned this at some point that that hopscotch was actually from the Roman Empire and was used as training. Like, it was part of the training of soldiers. That it was that some it was some, like that Roman soldiers would use large hopscotch courses to improve their, like, footwork agility in full armor.
T.C.:So you think it's tough for a four year old to be jumping from square to square. Now throw throw a whole Roman Roman regalia upon
JIM:Oh you my goodness.
T.C.:Holding a spear. Now jump on one foot. I'm four years old. No. You are a Roman soldier.
T.C.:Get out there. Four in Roman years? That's like 23.
JIM:It's yeah. It's IV.
T.C.:Oh, man. Hopscotch. But no, it's like a seventeenth century British thing.
JIM:Oh. So it's not Roman?
T.C.:No. It's Roman.
JIM:So you just went on this whole thing.
T.C.:No. It's it's it was Roman and then, like, as we know it as like a children's game
JIM:Oh.
T.C.:Was like a seventeenth century
JIM:Because we're so advanced that our children could defeat Roman soldiers.
T.C.:Well, just think. It's like, it was it was yeah. That's how cocky we are. Yeah. And it was probably called, like, Scotch hop because of, like, Scottish thing.
T.C.:I bet I made up a lot
JIM:of it.
T.C.:But Foursquare, oh, man. Did you do, like, atomic
JIM:Oh, yeah.
T.C.:Bombs and, like
JIM:What what were all the I don't I don't even remember all the different
T.C.:You do, like, the little little bounce,
JIM:baby bounce? Baby bounce, big bounce.
T.C.:I don't know if that's ever played Foursquare correctly. I just know the playground version of it was like when you're in like the a box, you get to make up rules.
JIM:Like Yeah.
T.C.:Alright. No cherry bombs. No baby bounces. Two bounces out and you're free. You can touch safety and get back.
JIM:Mhmm. And then you you and then if you got to eight, you tried making up whole new ones. Mhmm. And then saying it like everyone knows what it is.
T.C.:We're doing a guacamole dip on this one.
JIM:What guacamole dip is.
T.C.:Oh, you don't know? You go, who? What are your favorite plates?
JIM:Think I think actually there was even one time because the hopscotch was painted out near the four square. I think there was even a thing where we tried incorporating hopscotch.
T.C.:You got a hopscotch if it bounces. Well, you had
JIM:you had to bounce it, and then during the bounce before you could catch it, you had to to to run the hopscotch.
T.C.:You you have to bounce that thing to the roof and back to get Yeah.
JIM:We we would.
T.C.:Oh, you're you're strong. See, you were of Roman strength four year old. Alright, Jim. Our listeners have given us demands from studios literally all over the world, and you listening now, you can send us a demand. Any demand you'd like and we will read them right here and meet them right here on the spot.
T.C.:And when we reach the end of the episode, if we've done our job correctly, we will have pitched the full script or story that may exceed those demands and may end up being the season finale greenlit by the fans. Thank you to everyone who keeps submitting. Please keep them coming. Keep the comments coming. Keep the reviews so easily done in app coming as well.
T.C.:Today's demand, Jim. It's a little look to specify. Did a keyword search for some Thunderbolts. So Thunderbolts is coming out. I had a couple of demands come up, but this one caught my eye just just in its first line of the of what the demand was.
T.C.:Okay. I have not read further, but based on the first sentence in here that that has the word thunderbolts in it, what?
JIM:So this could go horribly wrong.
T.C.:This could go yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like to read them live.
T.C.:Some people may never hear this episode. We've only had to do that once. It's true. This is from Matthias at m u c it muck it up, I get it. Muck it up studios.
JIM:Marvel Universe Cinema.
T.C.:It up studios. Marvel has given us two Marvel Studios special presentations, Werewolf by Night and the Guardians of the Galaxy holiday special. It is a huge missed opportunity to not have more of these. Oh, what was this? There could there could be so much more of the MCU explored in short form.
T.C.:Sorry. There's some typos here. We have been breaking into Kevin Feige's room and whispering in his ear at nights.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:And we want to bring him something to tie into the thunderbolts. Armed with your expertise, knowledge, expertise, knowledge of the you, Give us three independent special presentations for three Thunderbolts, Black Widow, Red Guardian, and Winter Soldier. Do your best to keep everything in Canon, and I know you will likely record this before Thunderbolts, you are correct, comes out, but I trust you. That's it. That's the demand.
JIM:Oh, gosh.
T.C.:Okay. Come up with three m so basically three
JIM:Three three specials. Yeah.
T.C.:Hour long specials. Yeah. Yeah. Think Werewolf by Night is excellent. You know I'm a fan.
T.C.:I love rewatching it in preparation for Blade.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Guardians of the Galaxy, I forget that that does have the Marvel special presentation logo on it. But to do I I agree. More opportunities to I love the one shots back in phase one.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:And I think and they did a couple for phase two as well. The Marvel one shots were so great because it was just let's just look at a tiny segment of the MCU. Most of them have Coulson in them. Mhmm. All hail the king
JIM:was the last The first one, right, it didn't even have, like, comic book characters. It was just about, I guess, Coulson, but it was about the fallout of the battle of New York.
T.C.:Right. It was well, let's see. There's a funny thing happened on the way to Thor's hammer, which is which is Coulson stopping at a gas station that gets robbed.
JIM:Oh, I don't I don't know if I ever saw that. I don't think I ever saw that one.
T.C.:It it takes place on
JIM:the road to wall. Where the two people rob a bank because they got a Chitauri weapon.
T.C.:Yes. It's Jesse Bradford and what's her name? She's from Mean Girls and Masters of Sex. Lily no. Not Lily.
JIM:Oh, Lizzie.
T.C.:Lizzie. Lizzie Kaplan. Yeah. It's Lizzie and then Coulson's not in that either. It's it's it's Titus whatever his face is, and he's a anyway, it was the prototype for Agents of Sheila's show.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:Yeah. Then there's the Agent Carter one, which was the prototype for her show. All Hail the Kings the best one, which is the aftermath of
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Of of Trevor Slatterley in prison for being the Mandarin.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Scoot McNary's in that one, and so is Sam Rockwell.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:The Consultant is probably the weakest one, or it's the setup for Tony Stark visiting Thunderbolt Ross at the end of Incredible Hulk.
JIM:Oh, there's a whole I guess I'd I guess I've only seen a couple of these. Yeah.
T.C.:I think I'm missing one. But whatever the case, these were great just little short films that gave us another look at end at the MCU. Werewolf by Night and Guardians of the Galaxy are great. Like, they build off of well, Guardians of Galaxy the builds off of two and leads us into vine three Mhmm. And is a great Christmas special.
JIM:And Werewolf by Night, I think, does a lot of excellent world building that thus far the MCU and no other TV show has really taken advantage of. We you this podcast has been the only thing to take advantage of that so far.
T.C.:The closest connector would be anything Aegithel, long connector. Like, that's being witchcraft and whatnot.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Even that overlap thin at best. So to your point, Matthias, completely agree with you. The Marvel studio pre special presentations. I thought this was gonna ask us to do that, like a thunderbolt split. And it's and it
JIM:has been And before you got to the the him him saying the titles Yeah. I'm gonna quickly say what I, like, instantly started putting together.
T.C.:Oh, okay.
JIM:What what's her name? Julia Louise Dreyfus. What's what's your character's name?
T.C.:Contessa Valentina.
JIM:So I was going to pitch Contessa Valentina going to recruit people Mhmm. That didn't work out.
T.C.:Oh, that's a fun that's a fun special. That's a great one shot of her visiting characters we've seen.
JIM:Well, ideally that we've seen it. Yeah. We could always go villains and just learn their stories and find out how they were taken down by townspeople or cops Yeah. Or or things like like their or things like that.
T.C.:What was the in She Hulk, there was the immortal Yeah. That were like, having having Contessa talk to him, and he's just, like, hitting on her the whole time. Yeah. Forget this. Mister Immortal.
T.C.:Mister Immortal.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. That's a fun idea to have for just do a we could see some familiar faces and some faces we've never seen before. That's that's fun. That's a that's a really good
JIM:That that that was that was where I first first went.
T.C.:But to
JIM:Something like con Contessa Valentina's no good, very bad, terrible week. Recruitment. Recruitment. Yeah. The
T.C.:the notion so what we've been asked to
JIM:And and she could sell of, like, anyone. Right? She's because she did Veep. I'm sorry.
T.C.:Keep No.
JIM:No. Go ahead. Go ahead. Because she was Veep, very, very much she could sell the the whole just just failing and just be like, ugh. And, like, taking a marker to a folder or just tearing it in half or throwing it out a window.
JIM:Just
T.C.:Being upset about everything failing. Yes. I I like that. That's that is fun because she's this sort of antithesis to or just like an alternative look at Nick Fury style Mhmm. And having her go through recruitment drive.
T.C.:Yeah. Contessa Valentina's recruitment drive.
JIM:You know, that's actually something curious. We'll see once the movie comes out. Because we keep talking about her because because we saw her in Stingers being Nick Fury esque. Mhmm. I wonder if she's actually more of a courier corollary to Coulson.
T.C.:Not working for I I you I've been avoiding the trailer, so I'm not sure. We'll have to wait to see.
JIM:Yeah. Same. I I just more mean, right, because she she's more facilitating rather than because Nick Fury Preactive. Yeah. He he's he's a superhero unto himself.
T.C.:Yes. Yeah. Contessa Valentin is very much
JIM:is is more of an administrator.
T.C.:Sure. Sure.
JIM:She And and not that not that Colson couldn't
T.C.:He shot at Loki.
JIM:Sling a sling a sidearm. But he really was more of a facilitator for the Avengers.
T.C.:Mhmm. He was their plucky sidekick. Mhmm. He was their snapper car DC Comics reference.
JIM:Get that DC out of here.
T.C.:I gotta get out of here. Okay. So asking for three specials, Black Widow, Red Guardian, Winter Soldier. I have an idea right away.
JIM:Good. Go.
T.C.:Okay. In this order. Maybe not the order of okay. Okay. Red Guardian, Winter Soldier, Black Widow.
T.C.:In that order, nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, nineteen nineties. Because the reason I I would say we don't have to do that in the order, but that's if I think probably, like, Black Widow, Red Guardian, Winter Soldier, but whatever the case, those three stories set in those three decades. Because after Ohio, Yelena and Natasha went back to the Red Room, so they they would have been overlapped in the Red Room. All but briefly, they would have been back in Russia because they flee Ohio, and then they were in the Red Room. And then the next time we see Natasha chronologically is when she is working for the NX?
JIM:I guess it depends on what we're trying to do with each of these. Mhmm. Because because I actually think I think she's too young in the nineties.
T.C.:She would yeah. So would Yelena. They'd be teenagers. But the the red room got these women started these young women started very young. We saw in Age of Ultron glimpses of Scarlett Johansson de aged, and she's, like, 16.
JIM:Yeah. And and I don't wanna do that for a whole whole episode.
T.C.:This you don't wanna see DH Scout Johansson and and No. Florence pew pew pew pew, obviously, you can
JIM:ask? I mean, depending on exact like, you're are are you wanting to to to tell stories with them sort of at the height of their their villain arcs? Yes. Yeah. So
T.C.:they would be because late teens, early early
JIM:And and and I wanna hear what you got, but I I just I wanna I wanna plant this seed of doubt and actually suggest shifting them all a decade.
T.C.:So then it would be eighties, nineties, February?
JIM:Yeah. Well And and we we kinda get this we get the store we get their story basically right after their heyday.
T.C.:Because, honestly, you're right. Because in Ohio, Natasha would be about 11. So then in the red room, would only be, like, 12. So bumping them post red room into, like, the
JIM:She can be that could be at the height of the Red Room.
T.C.:Right. Right. But if, like, Black Widow canonically in the in the movies was born in 1984.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:And Yelena was born in, like, '95. So getting them to fight and age proper, how what that what year is that period?
JIM:02/2008.
T.C.:02/2008. Okay.
JIM:Which doesn't work because in 02/2008, she is well, maybe it does, but Black Widow is on the verge of being oh, maybe So
T.C.:in Black Widow, canonically, the end of the Red Room training for Black Widow was 2005 for Natasha. So, like, the the red room training period would be 02/2005.
JIM:Which means she was picked up by The US not long after that.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:Because when is Iron Man two?
T.C.:She would have defected in 02/2005, around the time she was twenty twenty
JIM:one. Okay.
T.C.:Yeah. So yeah. If
JIM:Yeah. Somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah. That that that that was that was my thought.
JIM:We but I wanna hear what you were thinking.
T.C.:Iron Man two takes place in 2010. Sorry to answer your question. You said what time? She said she's 26 in 2010. Okay.
T.C.:So putting her around 20 when she joins shield. And so
JIM:because the other your the other thing was you said do it in the nineties. So you're wanting to you're wanting to do when they're when they're in Ohio?
T.C.:You wanna you wanna do, like I want them
JIM:to be on bikes No. No. No. Black widow?
T.C.:I I was mistaken to say the nineties just because I was thinking I I have an idea for Red Guardian. I don't know what to do with Bucky. But, like, I was just thinking, like, put them in three different time periods
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:To see these three different specials. What's if if the end of Black Widow's time with
JIM:the
T.C.:Russians before she defected to shield was in 02/2005. Mhmm. That makes her 21, and Yelena is ten years younger than her. That might that's too young.
JIM:No. That's too young. Yep. A handful.
T.C.:'25. '2 thousand five. Yeah. That's so maybe maybe, I I just I don't know. Is there a way to do a black double Black Widow story, or do we just do Natasha's not in this Scarlet Johansson isn't available.
T.C.:We just do a Yelena story.
JIM:I guess it depends on the stories we're telling and why we're telling these stories.
T.C.:Well, then the well, then that goes to what villain to use. Well, okay. Let me let me
JIM:What did you have in mind? You you you you clearly had something for for Red
T.C.:Red Guardian is the one that had the biggest idea for it.
JIM:Tell me about it.
T.C.:Imagine him in seventies. In Black Widow, when he's in his in the gulag Yeah. He says with all his belief, he fought Captain Captain America. America.
JIM:Ah. Okay.
T.C.:So when Steve is on ice
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:From the forties to 2010 Uh-huh. 02/1112, somewhere in there, When, how, what are the circumstances at which the Red Guardian believes he fought Captain America? So how do we make that one? That's the story I wanna see.
JIM:Ah, okay.
T.C.:It's a great bit of, like, lore drop that he's like, I fought Captain America. I beat him. Who does he think he fought? Did he fight Bucky? Like, who does he think he fought?
JIM:Well, it would have been someone with a shield. Right?
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:It's not US agent.
T.C.:No. Because John Wanner
JIM:because he's a contemporary character. What what was was it the the rebel, the renegade?
T.C.:Nomad.
JIM:Nomad. Yeah. That's I know they tried to do a whole nomad story with Captain America Yeah. In the the not Civil War.
T.C.:Infinity War. Infinity War.
JIM:Oh, that was Infinity War?
T.C.:Well, he's he doesn't have the stars and or stripes on
JIM:his Okay.
T.C.:Uniform anymore, and he's got weird.
JIM:I thought the the the the second Captain America
T.C.:Winter Soldier.
JIM:I thought Winter Soldier was where he was doing his They his nomad arc.
T.C.:They've they've kind of scavenged it here and there.
JIM:But they never but they never used the name.
T.C.:Right. Right. Right. Right.
JIM:So I I I did at this I don't know enough about nomad, and we were basically making stuff up anyway. What do you think about the idea of Dugan and his guys?
T.C.:The howling commandos?
JIM:The yeah. What if what if the howling commandos took up what they believed was the mantle of Captain America Okay. In the seventies and were just out vigilante fighting in a Captain outfit.
T.C.:At least Dumb Dumb Dugan alone, they'd be in their seventies, 80. Like, if they were maybe 30 at best in the forties. Right? Sure. So they'd be maybe.
JIM:Oh. They got secondhand serum.
T.C.:Wait. Isaiah Bradley was in prison for a long time. There is another Captain America on
JIM:the board. There was. I'd we could use him. My my concern about and and if
T.C.:There's some
JIM:abacons there. Like, by using Isaiah in anything that is a little more lighthearted, you kind of undermine the stories that have been told with him?
T.C.:Yes. I agree. I said it and I immediately did not like the idea. I so
JIM:you might so that's my that that's my my my problem with using Isaiah.
T.C.:You're onto something with suggesting that there was someone posing as captain America at the time, that the howling commanders could do it. The a shield has existed since the forties. Mhmm. So there could have been attempt by Howard Stark or Peggy to to try to get a Captain America out there. That maybe they they even even Hank Pym exists at this time with S.
T.C.:L. D. Well. He could even somehow be involved in prototyping some sort of Captain America esque character.
JIM:It does in endanger the idea of making him the main character, but mostly because there are so many questions they answer about who is slash was this guy then.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's
JIM:so Okay. But now but now I'm thinking about it. Okay. What if it is a US a US program, and it's actually a mantle that was handed off between CIA agents? You know what?
JIM:I'm just realizing Marvel. It wouldn't be CIA. It would be SHIELD.
T.C.:Yeah. I'm I'm realizing there might be someone already in canon well, in noncanon that was a Captain America analog, and it was the dude in Agents of Shield. There was a like
JIM:I think we're trying way too hard. Yeah. Yeah. The movies actually give us the answer, And I don't think we can make here here it is. Here's the answer I think that the movies actually have.
JIM:I think he did fight Captain America. Okay. I think he fought Captain America when Captain America went back to put went went to put
T.C.:To return stuff? Stuff. Okay. So, oh, yeah. So Steve Rogers goes and returns the hammer from Thor the Dark Thor.
T.C.:Sure. His, like, leaving Asgard drop off, whatever that is, some sort of, like, oopsie drops him off in Russia where his, like, the thing is busted and
JIM:he has to, like Well repair it. What year what year did Tony get the cube from his dad?
T.C.:Oh, in in endgame. Yeah. Yeah. What so, like, what why what year is this?
JIM:Was because it wasn't all the way back in the sixties.
T.C.:Yeah. When did when did Stan Lee flick off
JIM:I feel like that was the seventies. I feel like that would be
T.C.:The the spot to put it in.
JIM:Yeah. Right? Because they'd send Red Guardian in to It was steal something from from the Americans.
T.C.:1970. Yeah. Perfect. Heath.
JIM:It's a bit early. Is is I Right? 1970, not 1976 or '8.
T.C.:Mhmm. It's it's '1 yeah. 1970. Now the thing is that,
JIM:like Is the Red Guardian actually that old?
T.C.:The the Red Guardian, like oh, yeah. Because he he was imprisoned in the nineties. So so when was he born? Right?
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Because he might be a young man fighting older
JIM:Well, in in in 1970, I think he might be too young.
T.C.:Well, let's find out canonically when he was born, around 1945, 1950 is his estimated birth year. So he'd be 20. Yeah. The, like, the the prime of his life, he he was a hero of the Cold War, active during the seventies and eighties. He was already a seasoned Russian agent and the answer to Captain America before being sent to Ohio.
T.C.:So, yeah, he would
JIM:have been I don't know if thus. I I I understand that 1970 is a part of the seventies Mhmm. But I don't know if 1970 is the seventies.
T.C.:It's literally the year.
JIM:I know.
T.C.:But Are you looking for the aesthetic of the seventies?
JIM:Not necessarily. I'm I don't I I think I'm getting way too specific.
T.C.:Yeah. So he he was already the red guardian. Like, when
JIM:when when when you say you went to college in the nineties.
T.C.:I didn't though. I went in the February.
JIM:You started in February? Yes. You're a bad example. I went to college in the nineties. That doesn't mean I went in 1990.
T.C.:Okay. Okay. I I get what you mean. But in order to if you want Steve Rogers to fight the Red Guardian, it has to be in 1970 in that pocket of time when he when he's returning the Tesseract.
JIM:And I do.
T.C.:Okay. Then that is when he has to fight him. So a 20 Red Guardian is gonna go toe to toe with actual Steve Rogers, Captain America.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. Can we get Chris Evans to do this? Doesn't matter. He's Yes.
JIM:Already said yes. We can.
T.C.:We can. Okay. So here's the story. The Red Guardian fights Cajamarca. How do we have how does that happen?
T.C.:Do they send Red Guardian on a mission to infiltrate the base and it's bungled when Steve Rogers literally shows up? Yes. Awesome. So what is what are they there so they're infiltrating shields at that military base?
JIM:And Yeah. Because something's going on. They're they're a buzz there. They have some sort of item that
T.C.:Oh, man. I just thought of, like go ahead. Go ahead. Go So
JIM:They they have some sort of Mother Russia shall have it, you mean. So he's going to steal the Tesseract.
T.C.:Yeah. Oh my god. And he shows up and it's not there, and he turns around and Steve is
JIM:is there, like put it back.
T.C.:And they're
JIM:like Because no one else on the base yet knows it's missing.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:So the Red Guardian would be the only one who might have a clue. Mhmm. But when that happens, he wouldn't think, oh, it's missing. He would think, oh, Captain America took it.
T.C.:Yeah. And what I love about this is watching them beat the crap out of each other while trying not to be spotted. So constantly just, like, just fighting and tumbling through hallways just as people come around the corner, like, the farce of these two fighting really, really, like, you know, hand to hand, like, some really, really cool fights.
JIM:And then it's fun fun dialogue, like, why don't you alert your American friends? Because I'd I I don't I don't have
T.C.:I'd rather not involve any of them.
JIM:Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Oh, maybe I fight all of you at once, and he keeps going for like
JIM:keeps the shutting he tries shutting
T.C.:him up.
JIM:He's like, shit.
T.C.:Captain America cannot handle my my my beautiful Russian voice. You cannot silence me. You are you capitalist swine. Yeah. It would be that'd be so fun.
JIM:Captain America wants to keep this fight quiet the same way Russia and America wanna keep the Cold War quiet.
T.C.:The Cold War is here now, Captain America. I've been waiting to face you.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Oh my god. Getting some young actor to get to be young David Harbour would be so much fun. Yeah. And just having a
JIM:I I think that's really why I want why I was hoping for the later seventies to actually just get David Harbour.
T.C.:Okay. I see. Yeah. Yeah. We could de age him.
T.C.:They de aged a 70 year old Nick Fury. And and most of the time, he's in his suit anyway, so he'd have a mask on.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:So we can That's fair. Stuntman do all the work.
JIM:That's true.
T.C.:So Red Guardian is given Alexei is given a mission. Mhmm. You're gonna go to America, have him traveling America talking about the capitalist swine, get to the base, throw the gear on.
JIM:Call call it something like behind the star spangled curtain.
T.C.:Yeah. Like that. He gets in to steal the tesseract. It's not there. He turns around.
T.C.:Steve is standing there like, well, this is awkward. They fight. How is he Steve, how does this end? Right? Like, how
JIM:I think it ends like, he gets the cube back where it needs to be. And so basically, it turned around in such a way that he gets the cube back and alerts the base so that they turn and see and they see the Red Guardian, and Red Guardian has to abort his mission.
T.C.:I've been caught. Your captain America cannot stop me. True?
JIM:Or well, his story is that he beat captain America. Right?
T.C.:Yeah. He claims to have have beat him. That that he yeah. I mean, everyone we've heard this story a million times and go, yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. You fought you fought Captain America.
JIM:So that that that'd be the trick is is just spinning it in a way that he doesn't get the Tesseract.
T.C.:He well, he just says he well, yeah, he he he says he's fought captain American. He didn't say he beat him.
JIM:Oh, he didn't?
T.C.:I don't believe so. I let me transcript it real quick. Black widow transcript. You have to talk while I do this.
JIM:No. I I'm gonna think silently here on the mic and just hope everyone can hear the the ticky tack of your keyboard. No. I I I think yep. I think we got it.
JIM:I think we nailed it. Yeah. One and done.
T.C.:So I have the nuclear codes. But they are oh, the this is what this is Lexi's story from
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:So I had the nuclear codes, but there he is. Captain America. America. Finally, the Red Guardian time has come. I grab hold of his shield and face to face.
T.C.:It's the test of strength. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, that guy think he going to beat me. Anyway, the shield, you know, that is certain with him, like a precious baby blanket, you know.
T.C.:I use my advantage. I take it. I push him out the window, and I make my escape. What year was this? I don't know.
T.C.:7374. I don't remember. Captain America was still frozen ice then.
JIM:Are you calling me a liar?
T.C.:That's it.
JIM:Okay. Cool. That's easy enough. He's not there for the cube. He is there for nuclear codes.
T.C.:Boom. Easy.
JIM:We did it. Like, there's even a point where he he gets the cube from Steve Just throws it. Who who, like, it gives him a look like, uh-oh. And yeah. And he does that.
JIM:He just throws it right like, he looks at it, throws it over his shoulder, and it's like, give me the codes.
T.C.:Did you know Rubik's cube is invention from Russia?
JIM:Throws it over
T.C.:his shoulder.
JIM:Yeah. Something like that. Ting. Ting. Ting.
JIM:Ting.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, he literally throws it and lands where it's supposed to go.
JIM:Sure. Yeah. Something like that.
T.C.:And then they crash out of a window. Katamerica dips out, and Lexi's sitting there like, now he must run. Flee. And then he's back with a failed mission, and they're like, you
JIM:know No. I I think he succeeds because he said he got the codes. Right?
T.C.:Ah, yes. Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:So so he's six he succeeds in the mission he thought he had, but the whole right. The it's not a shaggy dog, but what it like, the the brush he had with with Mhmm. The the the other stories the secret war he was unaware of.
T.C.:And he defeated Captain America in battle. His precious little shield. Yeah. And he gets back, and and they they're kinda proud of him, but they're also like
JIM:Well, in his report, they they don't believe him.
T.C.:They're like, we're gonna maybe stop sending you out on so many missions. I mean, he doesn't go to death. He doesn't go to Ohio till the nineties, but Sure.
JIM:Well, right, because they use him for the next
T.C.:Twenty years. Yeah. There we go. Lexi's big day. Okay.
T.C.:So we can talk Black Widow again, or we can talk Winter Soldier. With Black Widow and Winter Soldier, Winter Soldier might be an opportunity for him to face off against a hero. What if was fun because they had them go had Winter Soldier and Red Guardian go up against Goliath, Laurence Fishburne's character.
JIM:Oh, okay.
T.C.:So we could have Winter Soldier go up against, like, Ant Man and the Wasp.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:Depending on when when if if Lexi's fighting in the seventies, we can put I wanna put Winter Soldier in the sixties or the eighties. Oh. Just not in the seventies. Let's put him in a different Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. I was thinking eighties or nineties.
T.C.:Eighties or nineties is fine. Just wherever wherever we else we put him, we have to then put Black Widow on the February. Like, know, like, I think, honestly, the Black Widow story to tell is probably her last mission before she defects Bucharest, which is where her Hawkeye Oh. Like, they they Cool. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. I was like, oh, you and I remember Budapest very differently. Budapest, Bucharest. You know what I mean? Yeah.
T.C.:But for Winter Soldier, either having him face off against a Marvel hero or villain we haven't seen before or or like a young Ant Man and Wasp. Mhmm. What's what sounds more appealing to you? Because we just did a heist of a facility. I think Bucky being sent on an assassination is probably well, it's more in line for what it's used for.
JIM:I am more more I am more often more excited by introducing new characters.
T.C.:Great. Okay.
JIM:Yeah. So I would rather not do Ant Man and Wasp. Mhmm. I love those characters, but we've seen them. I don't wanna just continue de aging characters.
T.C.:I don't
JIM:don't wanna do de aged Michael Douglas and Michelle Feitner.
T.C.:Do you said you wanna do this in the nineties?
JIM:That's that was my thought. Okay. It it could be the eighties if there if there's some some aligns there.
T.C.:I'm just trying to start I'm gonna start racking my brain here thinking, like, canonically what we have.
JIM:Right. Like like, who else was contemporary to Ant Man and Goliath and such?
T.C.:In in the MCU? Mhmm. Oh, boy.
JIM:Or no. In the in the Marvel universe.
T.C.:Do like, the comics. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Gosh. Well, let's see.
T.C.:In So Nick Fury, Captain Marvel's in the nineties. Winter Soldier could not fight Captain Marvel. He'd be obliterated. Yep. Hank and Janet.
JIM:Are there any alien characters that Hydra might have come across?
T.C.:Not drawing from shield. Let's see. There's the god. Well, if we're thinking from the comics, some of the active characters once in a while in canon are the Parkers. Nope.
T.C.:No. Peter Parker's Spy Parents? You don't like Peter Parker's Spy
JIM:I hate
T.C.:it. What about, okay, wait, wait, wait. What about a mutant? Someone like Forge or or like Magneto.
JIM:So the x men when winter soldier versus the x men?
T.C.:Or at least what Wolverine? No. No. See, what what we were we
JIM:Well, Wolverine makes more sense.
T.C.:Right. Because another immortal.
JIM:Well, no. It's not not just that. But I I'm thinking along the lines of what what would Hydra do? When would they activate the Winter Soldier? And it would be often for a political thing.
JIM:Weapon x was a Canadian program, so it would have been Hydra trying to mess with the Canadian government and politics. So so that doesn't have to be Wolverine because there are other people.
T.C.:Because it could be, like, anyone from Alpha Flight. Yeah. Oh, now I'm talking. Having him fight like the Wendigo or Puck. What is that?
T.C.:We're Gigaland. It's watching Winter Soldier fighting Puck.
JIM:Winter Soldier fight fighting Puck.
T.C.:Yeah. He's only slightly shorter than Wolverine, canonically. Oh, comic book accurate Wolverine. But you said the nineties.
JIM:Right? I'm such an idiot.
T.C.:What?
JIM:For years. For on on today, I realized that puck is a reference to hockey. I always thought it was a reference
T.C.:to It's Shakespeare.
JIM:Well, essentially, yes. That that character. That that roguish Shakespearean character. It's referenced hockey. Yeah.
JIM:I'm an idiot.
T.C.:Because he's little. He's a little puck.
JIM:But he's really tough.
T.C.:He's just a tough as nails puck. He sounds like someone from Letterkenny.
JIM:Oh, god.
T.C.:Oh, heat area. Metal arm hoser.
JIM:Oh, god. I'm
T.C.:You come to Canada, you gotta mess with the puck.
JIM:Unfortunately, puck and Wendigo are the ones who make the most sense. Mhmm. Because otherwise, you get North Star who can fly and shoot blasts. Yeah. And that's not not Yeah.
JIM:Impossible for us to do. We got Marvel money here. But it gets weird.
T.C.:How about Ghost Rider? Winter Soldier versus Ghost Rider. That there's that the that the the the Russians have are are delving into some of the old paranormal supernatural alien stuff looking for other they have an alien wing, a magic wing, super science wing, and they send Winter Soldier after Ghost Rider.
JIM:I mean, Now
T.C.:in whether or not you wanna accept shield as canon, which I know you don't, and I wish it was, agents of shield the show Mhmm. We've had Robbie Reyes Mhmm. The Ghost Rider in the car
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:With reference to the boots of Johnny Blaze.
JIM:I don't remember that.
T.C.:When when Robbie talks about getting the gift of the ghost rider, we see the boots of Johnny Blaze step before him and touch him, but we don't see Blaze.
JIM:Mhmm. So
T.C.:that that was just you know, you asked if there was an alien, and
JIM:I know that
T.C.:doesn't answer your card. But
JIM:Okay. Let let's let's explore this a little bit. Mhmm. So you think it's winter Soldier chasing down Ghost Rider, not Ghost Rider chasing down Oh.
T.C.:Winter Soldier? That's good too. Winter Soldier's on some sort of assassination, and then Ghost Rider shows up to attack him
JIM:Be vengeance. Yeah.
T.C.:That that's better. Because no way, Winter
JIM:Soldier whatever. Then Winter Soldier is like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember any of these things. That that doesn't that does not absolve you.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. That ignorance is not is not a defense. Yeah. I what do think of that?
T.C.:Ghost Rider showing up to stop Bucky? Like, we just have this, like, assassination. He's setting up his sniper. He sees his target. He's been tracking him for days leading up to when the assassination's gonna happen.
T.C.:And right when trigger is about to happen, the flaming skull of vengeance comes rolling in and kicks his ass.
JIM:The thing that I like about this, weirdly, don't is the motorcycle chase fight.
T.C.:Motorcycle fight? Oh, yeah.
JIM:Right? Because they're they're at because we'd be doing Johnny Blaze. Yeah. So it it we'd get an an awesome motorcycle chase. Now Winter Soldier, I guess both of them actually shooting at each other, ultimately going down to to hand to hand combat.
T.C.:Oh my god. The the chain going around Winter Soldier's arm and, like, yanking him Yep. Towards punching him in the skull face. Mhmm. Do you think this ultimately comes down to the spirit of vengeance, this the the ghostwriter's looking, like, going to do his like, looking into Bucky's soul and seeing something redemptive where he's like, now is not your time.
T.C.:I'm I'm not I'm I I can't take you. Something that sees some sort of absolve absolving him of this in some capacity. You are a tool. Hey, Bucky Barnes. You're a tool.
T.C.:I'm leaving here. That was hurtful.
JIM:I like that you gave him a Duluth accent.
T.C.:I'm the ghost rider.
JIM:I'm I'm Johnny Blaze.
T.C.:Johnny Blaze. Johnny.
JIM:Motorcycle stuntman. Do do you I don't I I don't I can't do a Duluth accent, I just put it
T.C.:Oh, yeah.
JIM:In a Yeah. More of a a a Northern Illinois, Southern whiskey, you know, the the the place we're most familiar with. Oh, yeah.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You betcha. Having having them go, like oh, yeah. So Bucky's got we don't even see him get the the mission.
T.C.:Maybe we see him activated, and then he just goes. We don't see who gives him the mission.
JIM:How how long are these things?
T.C.:Well, I mean, werewolf by night's, like, forty five minutes.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:Right. So well, that speaks to a whole other like, I know we're here to to to craft and pitch a thing, but I'm gonna exposit for for for a moment here. Okay. It's it's amazing to me sometimes some movies and shows feel huge. They they feel like, my god.
JIM:That had to have been, like, a season of television that I watched, and it was a two hour movie. Right? Yeah. Werewolf by Night, I think, is one of those shows. Like, I remember that, and it feels like it was a miniseries.
JIM:Yeah. Yeah. Not forty five minutes.
T.C.:It's yeah.
JIM:It it feels earlier this evening, you read a summary
T.C.:I read a summary that is the length of werewolf by night's one time.
JIM:Yeah. That and that that and that's that's weird. That's weird to think about that those two things were the same.
T.C.:Well, that that is a credit to truly well crafted filmmakings from the script to the screen to final product that not a single second is wasted, that it's paced just such that you feel so fulfilled by every moment of something that it feels bigger than it is. That
JIM:Which is weird because we could, right now, summarize were wolf by night, go beat pretty much beat by beat. Right. And it doesn't feel like like, saying it out loud, it doesn't feel that Mhmm. Realized, but it really it really was.
T.C.:Yeah. And and so thinking about the Winter Soldier versus Ghost Rider
JIM:We we very we very well could have enough time to give him his mission Mhmm. Watch him travel to wherever it is, see him follow and set up his snipe perch if it's gonna be that or or whatever it's gonna be. And then also get these sort of tidbits of this mysterious rider following behind him.
T.C.:Right. Right. Some even just a single indication that opening with some visualization that the ghost rider is part of the story because I just like the idea of, like, no in no indication that he's coming. Just something, like, sprinkled in. Bucky, buky, buky, buky.
T.C.:He's got his finger on the trigger, and then then Ghost Rider appears and gets a grand entrance. And the who the hell are you? They no time. Bucky's not gonna talk. Mhmm.
T.C.:Ghost Rider's not one for words either, that they just see each other, and the fight begins. And then we just get action sequence slowdown, action sequence slow down, get on those bikes, get to the hand in hand.
JIM:I get what you're saying. I don't know if I'm on board for nothing Ghost Rider until the moment.
T.C.:Well, I I I'm not I just don't want to be I don't wanna see, like, like, cutting to him riding his bike.
JIM:No. I'd want I'd want it to be I'd literally a mysterious rider. His his wheels aren't on fire. He doesn't have the fiery skull. It could it's Johnny Blaze, basically.
T.C.:The yes? Up
JIM:up up until the moment. Yes. And I'm not saying I wanna spend a bunch of time like, I'm Johnny Blaze. I'm looking for so and so.
T.C.:Can you give me directions to
JIM:give a vengeful friend who's who's looking for yeah. No. I don't I'm not saying necessarily any any of that.
T.C.:What what I'd would be fun to do just from a filmmaker perspective is, something that the Batman does really well is the Batman, the Robert Pattinson one that Mhmm. Has a bunch of establishing shots that are actually story beats. They Where do where you look like you're you think you're just looking at an establishing shot of a building, but in a second view, and you go, oh, they it narratively was showing us the the the stadium that they are oh, another establishing shot that has, like, a covered ripped down political oh, in hindsight, they were showing us Thomas Wayne's like
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:So having these establishing shots with a rider in it, easy to mistake for establishing shots.
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:That then, yeah, we're we're
JIM:I'll I'll still pro and and I I know this goes further, but I would I would be willing to go as far as the equivalent of the rider with no name Mhmm. From raising Arizona.
T.C.:Sure. Sure. Yeah. Thank
JIM:you. Because because he he is shown a lot more once once he's brought in, but it is much more mysterious and ominous.
T.C.:And this being set in the nineties, raising Arizona is from '87, but, like, giving this a nineties aesthetic is also a lot fun to be had here.
JIM:Oh, yeah. Motorcycle flight? Yeah.
T.C.:Absolutely. Yeah. Get not not having this look like a John Wick action sequence, but filming it kinda like death proof. Like, if Quentin Tarantino's death proof could be, sort of a template for this, the gritty yeah. That's more like exploitative years, like eighties, but Mhmm.
T.C.:With that idea that it would be filmed like a nineties action sequence. Yeah. There's a lot. That's cool.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:You know, Johnny, like, listing Bucky's sins, and Bucky's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Mhmm. Every time Bucky is confronted by someone who tries to get to him Mhmm. We've seen it. It starts getting through.
T.C.:His his mind isn't so mush that when he's really pushed to the point of acknowledging his mind wipe, he kinda starts seeing through it. Yeah. So I think Johnny, like replenishing
JIM:it and actually sentencing it. If it's ghost writer who's actually listing his sins, that prob you could say that that would pierce through any of the hip any of the the conditioning Mhmm. Because it's literally him speaking to his soul. Mhmm. Mhmm.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Like Bucky coming out.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:So then when do you like that idea when the when it's time for the the vengeance that Ghost Rider hesitates? Lucky could even be like, do it. I deserve it.
JIM:You're right. I think I don't know if I'd call it hesitation. I think it would basically be more like that is he doesn't run from his sins Yeah. And that doesn't absolve him. I I don't I don't I don't I like Ghost Rider.
JIM:I don't know him well enough to know if this is something Ghost Rider would do.
T.C.:Sure. We can make it that way. But, Bucky, even you go if everything you said, I if everything you just said is true and I did all that, do it. I deserve it. I don't wanna be that anymore, End me.
T.C.:And and Johnny No. Johnny Johnny seen something. You know? I I
JIM:Well, at that point, Johnny's not in control as far as I know.
T.C.:The rider. Yeah. So maybe maybe Johnny comes through and takes over and shuts the ghost down for a moment to just be, like so it's speaking man to man.
JIM:Mono e. Mono. Wait. Mono e. Mono.
T.C.:Man to man?
JIM:But doesn't mono mean hand?
T.C.:Mano e mano. Man o man. Man o man o man.
JIM:Right? Because mano's hands of fate is hands the hands of fate.
T.C.:Hands the hands of fade.
JIM:So mano y mano is hand to hand.
T.C.:Sure. We're off topic
JIM:right now. Teaching ourselves Spanish the worst way possible.
T.C.:Before the penance stare is given, I think if because
JIM:the the penance stare destroys the person that's being
T.C.:It forces a victim to relive all the pain and suffering they've caused on others multiplied. So it works it were, like
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Now canonically, it works best on the guilty, and it doesn't work on soulless beings and the pure of heart. It doesn't work on them either. And and it it has not worked on there's another there's another little thing that the ghostwriter has been around long enough they have to think of ways to get around his powers. I'm trying to think. There's one other thing it hasn't worked on, and I'm not remembering what it is.
T.C.:But I know those things for sure. Oh. It works out best on the guilty, and it doesn't work on soulless beings. Oh, if someone has zero regret, the penance theory doesn't work either. If they're, like, completely regret.
JIM:Oh, that's terrible.
T.C.:Well, that's one of the more newer ones that they had.
JIM:No. That right? Because the we know enough about psychology to know that really terrible people don't feel regret. Yeah. People that that's who the ghost rider's supposed to be hunting down.
JIM:That's the entire point to vengeance. TC, this is terrible.
T.C.:That's This is terrible. We I didn't come up with this rule. I didn't write this. Oh, no. I could be wrong.
T.C.:I'll Google it.
JIM:No. Yeah. You're probably right. Awful. Okay.
JIM:Anyway, we don't have to do that. Yeah. He sees through and he sees that Bucky is has been brainwashed and that the the true soul of Bucky Oh. Has not wanted to do anything.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. And he says, you are not the guilty party. Yes. And drops him there. Or the chase leads back to wherever Bucky's pickup point is Yeah.
JIM:And his Yes. His handler
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:Is is there or or or something to that end and and Ghost Rider turns and burns out his Yes. His
T.C.:Exactly. Whoever we open the movie with with Bucky getting activated by someone reading the notebook who sends him on his mission. And then once the fight is over and Johnny lets his lets the flame go away to talk talk to Bucky, he sees
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:He sees through. He's like, okay. At this, you know and then yeah. And then we cut back to the handler. The Bucky returns.
T.C.:He's like, you're back quicker than I thought. He's like, I I don't think I'm not who you think. And then the silhouette activates, and and Pendant stares this handler. So we open with the handler, close with the handler.
JIM:Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. I think Ghost Rider chases Bucky to the pickup point. The handler is there.
JIM:Mhmm. They're like, what's going on? What is this guy? Take him down. And there might be other oh, I guess if it's depending, it might just be the handler.
JIM:Yeah. Maybe there's the handler and a couple of mooks. So somebody's sort of takes Yeah. Yeah. But either way, Bucky is is down.
JIM:Ghostrider penances the handler Mhmm. And and says the vengeance is satisfied and rides off. Yeah. And we as Bucky's laying there, someone else steps in, picks up the notebook, and reads the because it's basically, there there there's a moment where it seems Bucky is free.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:And that's when a new handler steps in Mhmm. And picks up the book
T.C.:Yes.
JIM:And reads the words and hypnotizes them again.
T.C.:There you go. I love it. That's cool.
JIM:That's
T.C.:fun. Alright. Red Guardian's what do we call I behind the iron iron.
JIM:Behind the star spangled curtain.
T.C.:Yeah. So it's this one, the Oh. Witcher soldier and the pennant stare. You know, we don't have to.
JIM:Vengeance Deferred?
T.C.:That's okay. We're we don't have to sit here and and and spend time. Although, you know what? I will take time. You take we're gonna take a break right
JIM:here. Oh, okay. And we're
T.C.:gonna come back and do Black Widow.
JIM:Okay. Sounds good.
T.C.:So you can think of a title right now. Alright, everybody. We're gonna take a quick break here to hear some messages from Six Five Media and move into our third Marvel special presentation. Alright. Here we go.
T.C.:Alright. You had five minutes. Do you have a name?
JIM:Nothing I'm really happy with. Okay. What about Guilty as Sin?
T.C.:Winter Soldier, guilty as sin. I don't mind that. That's kinda fun. It's a funny thing happened on the way to Thor's hammer. Art artifact 43 or whatever it was, long live the king or all hail the king.
T.C.:Guilty as sin feels within the realm of the Marvel one shot titles.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Werewolf by Night and the Guardians of the Galaxy holiday special doesn't give us a lot to work with. So I think winter souls are guilty as sin. That's that's kinda and plus it's a nineties. It's a nineties. I'm putting finger quotes up.
T.C.:Guilty as Sin is a it serves like a hard target, under siege Steven Seagull sounding title. Right?
JIM:It probably is the name of a movie from the nineties.
T.C.:Steven Seagull is guilty as sin. So I don't mind guilty as sin. Okay. That that's that is just the right amount of cheeky, I think. So we have got a Red Guardian.
T.C.:We have got ourselves a Winter Soldier. Would you present these in this order? Like, if if these three specials existed, so then the last special is Black Widow. I'm realizing my mistake. We should be just focusing on Yelena, and we have a whole lot of time to play with.
JIM:Was that the demand?
T.C.:Well, it was black widow. It didn't specify Natasha. It said the thunderbolts.
JIM:Is is Yelena black widow? Doesn't she have a
T.C.:She is a black widow. Right? They're all they're all black widows.
JIM:Were they? I didn't I didn't remember that. Yeah. But that's probably right. That's fine.
JIM:Okay. Let's do Yelena. So it has to be well, we'll go even later then. I say, right, mid mid teens.
T.C.:Like, the '20 like, 2010, around the time of Avengers. Because, like, if we as of as of we haven't seen Thunderbolts yet. So as of this is what we know. She was born somewhere around 8990 based on her agent
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Black Widow. So she's around six at the beginning of that movie. And the in '95, they returned. The Ohio mission fails. In '95, she's back in Russia and put into the red room program.
T.C.:And then they serve her
JIM:in that until the twenty twenties?
T.C.:Till 2016.
JIM:Oh.
T.C.:She becomes their top agent.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:She's global. She's mind controlled. She's freed from the red room in 2016 in Morocco.
JIM:She was?
T.C.:She's she's sprayed with a red dust antidote.
JIM:You remember that well. I I thought I didn't think that she was freed of it until after the Black Widow movie.
T.C.:She she explains when she's freed to Natasha. Oh. We see it in flight because she kills one of the widows who's under mind control. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. And then inside and then she and she's reunited with Natasha in 2016 in between Civil War and Infinity War. No. No. In between Winter Soldier and Civil War.
JIM:That's not when Black Widow
T.C.:takes takes place post Civil War Captain America.
JIM:I thought it take yeah. But what? Okay.
T.C.:Yeah. So that puts puts Black Widow the movie where she's freed from it
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:2016. Black Widow takes place in 2016. And then we know that she was blipped Yeah. In 2018. But if we're talking the height of her red room mind control, we're looking anywhere between nineteen ninety five and twenty sixteen.
JIM:Okay. I I don't know. Is telling a Red Room story interesting?
T.C.:Well, we've we've seen the Red Guardian sent on a mission. We saw Bucky
JIM:on a mission. Realized one of the things by by doing it's it's a super fun story, but doing ghost rider with Bucky and having ghost rider say, oh, yeah. You didn't do any of this. This isn't on you. I'm gonna put it's on this guy.
JIM:Right. Do do you feel that that kind of undermines Bucky's emotional journey because Bucky still feels guilty? Like, that's a that's a huge motivator of his character after Winter Soldier.
T.C.:Well, how about this? I I that's a fair point. How about he has a a a moment, like a glimmer of of, like, realization that causes Johnny Blaze to hesitate just enough for Bucky to be, like, snap back into it, knock Johnny Blaze in the jaw, jump on his bike and race away to get back to his base camp. And when Johnny Blaze chases him down, all he has he doesn't find the winter soldier. He only finds the handlers.
T.C.:So Bucky gets away?
JIM:No. Bucky shouldn't get away because the we gotta put him back in his timeline Okay. And he doesn't get freed until after Winter Soldier.
T.C.:Then then I then I
JIM:say We okay. We can leave it on okay.
T.C.:So Anyway
JIM:Yeah. Back to you, Elena.
T.C.:Black Widow, the solo movie takes place in 2016 in between Civil War and Infinity War.
JIM:K.
T.C.:Okay. So 2016 is when Elena was knocked out of her program. She was deprogrammed.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Now you had asked, is seeing her on a Red Room mission worth worth it? Like, is that the way to go? Mhmm. I don't know. But we to to kinda Red Guardian's on a mission.
T.C.:Bucky's on a mission. Do we want a third like, this is the third movie in this trilogy of one shots that shows the Thunderbolts as the sinners that they are, I think we do have to see her on a mission. However, we need to differentiate it from Bucky and Red Guardian.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:And so now the challenge is, how do we come up with a third movie of a bad guy on a mission?
JIM:Well, let's just what did the Red Room do? The Red Room was a Russian program, not a Hydra program. Right?
T.C.:Correct. Yes.
JIM:Yes. Okay. What are Russia's interest in the Marvel universe, particularly in the twentieth in the twenty first century?
T.C.:Russians Russia's interest around 2016.
JIM:In the Marvel universe.
T.C.:I you know, I'm just trying to think of some fiction.
JIM:In the Marvel Universe.
T.C.:Okay. Okay. There was a
JIM:In the Marvel Universe.
T.C.:Okay. Got it. Yeah. I mean Marvel. Marvel.
T.C.:What were the Russian interests in the MCU in the February?
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Well oh, you know, who kinda had a a problem in the February would have been freaking Whiplash, Mickey Rourke's character. Sure. Oh. Oh. Oh.
T.C.:Oh. I got I wanna throw an idea out there, Jim. I wanna throw an idea out there.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Okay. Making Yelena available available to freaking Justin Hammer. Justin Hammer dealing with weapons, trying to develop his own Iron Man stuff in in and around the era of the February. Like, Iron Man two
JIM:Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Is about the time that Iron Man two is when is when Justin Hammer is introduced. That is in 02/2010.
JIM:And he gets whiplash out of a Russian prison.
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. How did he do that? He just said, hey. I wanna buy one of your prisoners?
T.C.:Pretty much. Yes. Yeah. So what if Justin Hammer, previous to that, tries to tries to like, he buys a black widow from the Red Room in order to, I don't know, kill Tony Stark. I don't know.
T.C.:I bought what do I just you know how much I love Justin Hammer as a character. This is an excuse to bring him in. What do you think of this?
JIM:I don't like it on unless we have unless we know what it's gonna no. Unless we know what it's gonna be for. Like Okay. I I I don't I'm not compelled by the he hires an assassin to kill Tony Stark.
T.C.:Okay.
JIM:That what my my understanding of Justin Hammer's character, he's not interested in that type of thing. He's he's interested in outshining someone. Mhmm. He's not he's not interested in just eliminating them from the competition.
T.C.:What if
JIM:That's Obadiah Stane.
T.C.:True. Yes. How about this?
JIM:He's he's not above stealing. Yeah.
T.C.:Could do do you like the idea of of Justin Hammer being utilized in any capacity in this?
JIM:I'm I'm okay with that if it if it fits, if it works.
T.C.:So yeah. Something to how about this? If so the way Natasha is integrated into Tony Stark's life is as his personal assistant. Like, she gets S. L.
T.C.:D. Inserts her into Tony's life as a different Natalie. Right? She's not Natasha. She's a as an agent hiding in plain sight.
T.C.:Justin Hammer being whisked away to some red room gala with other like, we can even get Claw in there to have an Andy Serkis cameo and Dreykov, Ray Winstone's Dreykov is
JIM:the These are the most expensive specials ever.
T.C.:That's why they animated what if. Right? Just I'm just throwing stuff out right now, but essentially having Yelena not be a black widow, but into insert herself into Justin's, like like, oh, let me date. You are such a handsome American man. May I take you out to dinner here in mother Russia?
T.C.:We don't have to have Ray Winstone. We don't have to have Andy Serkis.
JIM:Honestly, I was already thinking about Claw. Yeah. But I was going a different direction. Rather than being in Russia rather than than than that, Hammer does hire
T.C.:A black widow.
JIM:A black widow Mhmm. As a bodyguard. Yes. Okay. He is going to Africa to make a deal.
JIM:He is buying some very rare product from someone out there.
T.C.:Yes. There
JIM:you buy vibranium Yeah. From KLAW. Mhmm. So they get there and and KLAW is like, we we need to
T.C.:Do the
JIM:action. Speed this oh my god. Oh my I don't even know if I we
T.C.:Just the most Scottish Australian African voice you
JIM:can hear. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Just we need to nope.
JIM:Nope.
T.C.:We You don't have to do it. You don't have do it. Yeah.
JIM:I just feel like I'm
T.C.:Couple fish.
JIM:Cramping my own tongue.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. Okay. So he Called couple couple fish.
T.C.:Couple fish.
JIM:We need to speed this up as much as we can.
T.C.:He did it,
JIM:folks. Oh god. That was terrible. So But and and, yeah, he's like, be right. This is a hot commodity, and we don't have time for all the showboating.
JIM:I love showboating. I I
T.C.:want dancing. We love the dancing.
JIM:I love I love the money. We need to finish this because some people are gonna come get this. You didn't get this illegally, did you? You know I did.
T.C.:You know I did. Oh my god. Are you saying we get to see Elena fight some Dora Milaj? Yes. Yeah, baby.
T.C.:There we go.
JIM:Because they show up to get their vibranium. It's vibranium. That's what they that's what he went to buy.
T.C.:Yeah. Oh.
JIM:So they show up to get their vibranium from Claw back. Claw's like, I got my money. This is your problem now, Hammer, and Claw outs. Mhmm. Probably chased by one or two.
JIM:Anyway Mhmm. But now we have to see Yelena protect Justin Hammer
T.C.:From
JIM:the dormitory. The package of of Vibranium from the dormitory. Yeah. I think, ultimately, in the end, they lose the vibranium. Mhmm.
JIM:And Yelena
T.C.:Protects. Yeah.
JIM:Protects Justin Hammer, get gets gets them away.
T.C.:Mhmm. Yeah.
JIM:I realize those are very broad strokes.
T.C.:I mean, this is mostly an action scenario here.
JIM:Yeah. It it's just one big action scene. Well, I no. You could take at least ten minutes to set up the Justin Hammer with Yelena
T.C.:Yeah.
JIM:Going to Africa.
T.C.:I think having him constantly, like, trying to put the moves on her, and she's not having it. So then eventually, she can, like, you know, grab him by his wrist and turn his hands. Like, okay. Okay. Yeah.
T.C.:Yep. My bad. My bad. Like, she
JIM:because Sure.
T.C.:One thing that will not happen here, will not break through her program, and she's a perfect black widow. She is she is we will not see hints of her humanity in this.
JIM:That's why I actually think if she doesn't respond, like, he he throws out lines. He throws out pickup lines or cat calls or whatever. Like, no response. And it's to the point where, like, he gets in front. I can't do the whistle that quick.
JIM:Yeah. One of those are, like, waves in front of me. Nothing? Nothing? You're a robot.
JIM:Yeah. Little Russian robot.
T.C.:I can hear Sam Rockwell say that. You're you're a sexy Russian robot.
JIM:Yeah. And then just kinda dropping it from there. Mhmm. Mhmm. Or or continuing to do it throughout.
T.C.:Get getting no. No. I like that. Like, on the plane there Mhmm. Having that little interaction, getting there, and
JIM:it's game game. Almost like yeah. Right? Like, it it's it's like a gross imitation of Tony Stark in the Humvee with the soldiers.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good.
T.C.:Yeah. It's a good parallel. And having her just, I'm here for the mission, sir. Don't touch me. No touching.
JIM:Not even bothering to say I'm here for the just Mhmm. Just don't don't touch me.
T.C.:No, sir. Yeah. And then when it's alright. Well, game face on, babe. Yeah.
T.C.:Perfect. Here we go. You know, coming out and having his interaction. Know, the the time for this, let's speed it up. And then
JIM:Holy cow. Even raw, these these rocks look good. Don't they? She loves them.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that kind of stuff.
T.C.:And then the door melange comes come tearing in.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:And it's like, it's your problem now, Hammer. Yeah. And he GTFOs and Hammer's like, do your job. Protect me. Like, first he tries to say, like, ladies, ladies, ladies, this was a simple business transaction.
T.C.:I have a receipt. I have a receipt. And they're like, you're not leaving here with that material. I like, I paid good money for this material. I am leaving, and my my friend here is gonna make sure that happens.
JIM:It might even it actually might even begin with him offering like, the first thing that happens, they show up and he he offers to buy their tech.
T.C.:Oh, like I what I
JIM:see. I know that that's, like, just one or two lines of dialogue there. But yeah. Like, because they have they have high-tech stuff. Yeah.
JIM:Like, oh, I I can sell that.
T.C.:Yeah. I I'm gonna I'm gonna say this, but I hate it. Mhmm. If Sam Rockwell's unavailable for this, we can get Walter Goggins' character. Yeah.
T.C.:So he he tries to buy their tech. He tries to sweet talk them for whatever minute or two that takes, and they're like, you are giving us that or we are taking it, but you are not leaving with it. And then the the action begins, and and Yelena is set to work Yeah. And fighting them. Mhmm.
T.C.:And now taking a moment, is is it fulfilling enough to see this Yelena short film? It's more of a Justin Hammer short film because he has so much personality. I'm not saying that I I don't think this is a great idea. I'm just wondering, is there anything more we could potentially add to Yelena? The risk here is making it feel like the Bucky episode.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Right? The
JIM:And, ultimately, that is a problem.
T.C.:That that it doesn't have, like, a a the my my
JIM:It it right. It it's all it's it's the Justin Hammer show and then an action scene.
T.C.:Right. So here's here's a suggestion just to try something. Without her remembering anything
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Getting flashback scenes to her as a little girl with Natasha. So we see them in Ohio. We we could even get a vocal cameo from David Harbour. Like Sure. Girls, what are you doing down there?
T.C.:They're playing Nintendo or whatever that we could tell some small kids on bikes. It's so funny. I went back to this holy shit. That that we get some sort of adventure with Natasha and Yelena as little girls in Ohio, some little building a fort in the woods that, someone steals all the the wood from. So then they go on a little in the woods to to get all their material back.
T.C.:Something juxtapose just
JIM:Or they go to steal the material to build their own fort.
T.C.:Yeah. Even, like, stealing it from a construction site. So they're, like, or stealing it from yeah. Where they they shouldn't be. Yeah.
T.C.:Like, a a juxtaposed story of Yelena, the little girl with Natasha being involved in some sort of theft. What's right? What's wrong? What's right? What's wrong?
T.C.:Right? And then seeing the modern day Yelena who is a robot
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:That gives us something of Yelena that we ideally, if it balances right, you feel kinda sad to think like, man, what's inside her head right now that she doesn't know is there?
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:And then it's it is similar to Bucky, someone who's been mind wiped. I I actually wonder if they'll address that in Thunderbolts when Winter Soldier and Yelena speak to each other. Bucky and Yelena are both people who were brainwashed.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Maybe that's something that that will be addressed in the movie. So giving it's it's just shades of similarity of Bucky that she is someone who doesn't have her memories. But in this case, we actually get to watch this this cute kids on Bucky adventure, and we get an eighties story. Or, no, this would be nineties. Like, we we cover all the yeah.
T.C.:What do you think of that? What do think of that? Like, having having a juxtaposed story.
JIM:That's actually a really you know, for the people who tune in for screenwriting tips Mhmm. That's actually a great idea for how to when you want when when you don't want to when you wanna have a character who is way more stoic Mhmm. And doesn't really reveal a lot on camera Mhmm. By doing a flashback like that that does all all of your heavy lifting in that regard. That that's a great trick.
T.C.:Yes. I I'm I'm glad I'm a I did a great trick. The I so we have go ahead.
JIM:Right. Because the entire thing is it's not just two stories juxtaposed. It suggests that's what she is thinking about as these things are happening.
T.C.:Deep in deep in her subconscious, those memories are still there.
JIM:Basically basically, we pull a lost.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what we're doing. Yeah. In the Justin Hammer story, she gets him away safely without the Vibranium, which he's pissed off about.
JIM:In the end.
T.C.:Yeah. In the end. And he could even be, like, yelling at her, and that's when she finally, like, lays him out. Like, if he gets to like, whatever. He, like, crosses the line.
T.C.:She just pummels him the ground and says, my mission was to protect you. You're still alive. Alive.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Right? Her mission wasn't to save the product. Her mission was to keep him alive, and that's what she did. She succeeded in that.
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:And then in the kids' story, what's the end of that? They do what do you think? Do are they stealing from a a a construction site from adults? Are they stealing from other kids in
JIM:the neighborhood? Stealing from other kids in the neighborhood who are stealing from a construction site.
T.C.:Okay. So they yeah. That sort of Natasha rationalizing it, they already stole or stealing from someone who stole. Mhmm. May you know, I don't know if that juxtaposes nicely because the the door melange have every right to the condoms have every right to the vibranium.
T.C.:But, yeah, yeah, having them steal from some boys. And in the end, do they return the material, or do they
JIM:build their fort? It could actually it could end, or or it might not even matter where they got their supplies. What about they actually abandoned? It it, like, it it literally parallels it. They abandoned their supplies.
JIM:Mhmm. But the others, whether they're the boys or whatever Mhmm. Continue to give chase, and they're going to beat up Yelena, but Natasha
T.C.:Say that.
JIM:Stands up to them or takes the beating for her.
T.C.:Yeah. Stands up for her and probably gets a little bruised in the in the but in the end, you know, they they help each other. They save she saves her sister. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:And maybe some cute little revenge in the end where they get they they they do get a victory out of it where they build their fort out of something else.
JIM:Maybe. I sure. I'm I'm actually thinking not it's not bittersweet. I guess it's it's just kinda bitter. The sweetness is the memory.
JIM:Mhmm. And the way the memory ends is they're still together. They're proud of each other even though they lost. Yeah. And they go home and they have a family dinner Yeah.
JIM:With the with now I realize now I'm wanting a now I'm wanting to bring in Rachel Weiss and David Harbour for a a cameo.
T.C.:We muppet we muppet babies it. We only see it
JIM:for the next day. But but we get to see them, like like, have a a a family dinner. Mhmm. And I the way that speaks to to the I I don't I don't really know how it necessarily speaks to the Justin Hammer situation.
T.C.:Right.
JIM:But so so so maybe that's it. If we wanna No. The
T.C.:No. I I like the idea of it ending with with
JIM:Basically yeah. I'm I'm basically trying to end it like a kids on bikes story.
T.C.:Right. And the way to do that is Yelena sitting in the lunchroom of the Red Room, whatever the cafeteria type situation is, and then cutting to her sitting on a table with her sister with the suggestion you made earlier that deep down, these are the memories that she is holding within her heart whether she knows it or not. So yeah. Oh, that's sweet. That's sweet, Jim.
T.C.:What's what is this? Black widow and and the hammer? What you think of that. No. Alright.
T.C.:So I'm just gonna look over at the demand real quick here. Let's go back over to Matthias. Alright, Matthias. Three specials, a black widow, red guardian, a winter soldier winter soldier. Do everything we can to keep things in canon.
T.C.:I don't think we did anything that disrupts canon. I mean
JIM:I I mean, I hope not.
T.C.:I don't think so. I having hammer involved is fun pre Iron Man two Justin Hammer, so he hasn't gone to prison yet.
JIM:Mhmm. The I think the closest is having possibly having a moment where Bucky truly feels absolution.
T.C.:Right. Even if it's just briefly. And and, yeah, having Red Guardian
JIM:the hands of a flaming skull. You are not guilty of these crimes. Thank you. Thank you.
T.C.:I accept my forgiveness from you, oh, ghostly rider. Ghost rider. I like that. We will know when Thunderbolts comes out if we've maintained any sort of canon here. So, Matthias, you'll have to let us know how we did.
T.C.:Jim, did you think of the title yet? No? No. Okay. Well, what I'm gonna do here
JIM:I'm I'm to get
T.C.:a wrap up.
JIM:I'm I'm wrapping I'm I'm I'm spinning or I'm I'm revolving around the idea of every problem's a nail when you're a hammer. Mhmm. I'm thinking about the hammer and sickle. Mhmm. I'm I'm trying to find trying to find something playing around
T.C.:With Yeah.
JIM:With those.
T.C.:Everything's a hammer.
JIM:Everything's a hammer.
T.C.:That's like a
JIM:Or I would Everything's a drum. When you're a hammer.
T.C.:Yeah. Hammer time. Ellipsis. Hammer time. You wanna do a hammer time?
JIM:Too legit. Too legit to quit. Hey. Hey. Hey.
JIM:Hey.
T.C.:You know, before I wrap it up, and you can keep brainstorming, let's just think we have John Walker, Ghost, and Taskmaster are the three other Thunderbolts.
JIM:And Bob. Sorry for any spoiler for people who avoided all the trailers. There's apparently and he's a mystery on purpose, but there there's there's someone named Bob.
T.C.:But but knowing those three others are in, I don't Mhmm. Think there's anything John Walker's timeline is pretty small between Yeah. I don't I think we can
JIM:get one of these.
T.C.:Ghosts Same. Is not not entirely we have a good amount of time for Ghosts to be off doing something. Taskmaster's the other one. Now let's take a moment here to discuss Taskmaster because Taskmaster is a very different character in the comics in the comics.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Is there any I I think there is. I think there's room for Taskmaster to be a title that has been used more than once. And having a story set in the eighties or nineties with original actual taskmaster in some capacity. I don't I don't know what that is. Taskmaster as a character is not someone I'm, like, terribly, familiar with.
T.C.:I know, not George Perez. He was designed him and Slade Wilson are practically
JIM:Sure.
T.C.:Designed at the same time, which is why they even have the same color palette. Is there anything to be done with Taskmaster as a character? I don't know. You might actually have more information on him as a character than I do.
JIM:Only only slightly. He's he's a guy he he has a he's a guy with a mutant power. I believe it's a mutant power to be able replicate any maneuver Mhmm. He sees someone else do. So he can't shoot optic blasts.
T.C.:That's called an edetic memory.
JIM:Yeah. That that's correct. Good job. George
T.C.:Perez. Sorry. I was trying to remember who created George Perez created taskmaster and Slade Wilson Ah. And designed two characters to be identical except one as a skull mask.
JIM:And and so so yeah. So he can he can copy any move that that
T.C.:he sees. Physical action.
JIM:Yeah. Okay. And and I believe it's it's specifically that any physical action, but because of that, he is a very martial character.
T.C.:Mhmm.
JIM:But he has been hired by organizations that have minions to basically train them. Right? So he's been hired by Hydra to train Hydra agents how to fight.
T.C.:Right. He he also has worked for shield and aim. Like, he's worked for the good guys too. Yeah.
JIM:So if you really wanted to bring that original comic taskmaster to the MCU Mhmm. The way I would do it right here off top of my head in in in this as we've been talking about it is he is actually hired by the Russians to train, to create the Red Room program. And they study him. They study they study his eidetic memory. Sure.
JIM:Like, oh, this is how his brain works. We're gonna make this whole program to basically replicate this on brains that don't that aren't set up to do that. Sure. So he trains the black widows in what they do, and then the Russians make a a helmet to do it for them. They make they make this program.
JIM:Woah. So He then leaves. He he can go off and do his thing.
T.C.:And using the taskmaster persona, Dreykov using that on his daughter all, like, works. Right? Sure. Like, oh, I know what I'll turn you into. We had a guy that we that actually developed the red room
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:Who's long since dead. Let's just give you his
JIM:He doesn't need to be dead, but having him develop it in the nineties adds thirty years to his life. So even if he was 25 in the nineties, he's 55. That that's that's not out of the game necessarily, but basically, somebody who is who is in the the history of the MCU as opposed to Mhmm. Contemporary.
T.C.:Okay. Is I I don't I don't necessarily I'm not I'm not taking, like, a huge interest in seeing, like, a an MCU special presentation of taskmaster as a character. But having him be the one who developed the red room does hold some interest. That feels more like a cool comic book as opposed to Yeah. A a short film.
JIM:Yeah. I don't I don't know what the story arc is.
T.C.:Like Yeah.
JIM:Yeah. If you if you follow him across, like, fifteen, twenty years of his life Mhmm. And and his exploits of training all of the bad guys Yeah. Of the Marvel Universe.
T.C.:So something I remember.
JIM:I was hired by HYDRA to train all these guys, and then I was hired by the Red Room to train these assassins.
T.C.:And then I was The only I think it was the Bendis run of Avengers. There was, a brief I could be wrong. It's it's sometime in the more recent history of Taskmaster. I remember one of his story elements was the more he learns, the the more he forgets of his original memories.
JIM:Yeah. The I I think that was in yes. That was incorporated as a part
T.C.:of his character. But I don't know.
JIM:So he's a, like, he's a tragic character because he starts for like, he started if I oh, crap. If I remember right, it started as as he was a shield agent.
T.C.:Mhmm. And
JIM:he wanted to be more right? He didn't just wanna be one of the rank and file. He wanted to be a dude with a code name kinda thing. And, like, he had a family and everything. Oh.
JIM:And just over time, the the the
T.C.:He flowers for Algernon?
JIM:Yeah.
T.C.:Oh, no. Yeah. Like a murderous.
JIM:Yeah. Murders for Algernon.
T.C.:Murders. Forgot well, got the subtitle now. Oh my god. Yeah. It's just a okay.
T.C.:It's a he's Charlie. He's Charlie from Flower Shedding. No. Yeah. I don't know if there's a if there's a short in that.
T.C.:It is a fun notion to think that he helped develop the red room. But, yeah, I don't all I can all all that you've said that I'm like, well, there might be some there who's watching his fam he slowly forget his family. Like, he goes home to his wife, and first, he forgets their anniversary, then he forgets his home address, like, stuff like that. But Mhmm. That's just sad.
T.C.:Where's the action? Where's the excitement?
JIM:I think it what what you the the well, it would be it would still be sad. The action is in the fighting that he has to do Mhmm. Especially as people show up that he does not remember. And what you end up with is you end up with a not backwards Marvel flavored memento.
T.C.:A not oh, yeah. Not backwards. I'm like, so a forward memento? Yeah. You're giving him forward momentum?
JIM:No. The movie memento
T.C.:is meant after you said it. All you said was not forward. I was like Yeah. Or not backwards. I'm like, that's forward.
T.C.:Finish talking. Let me hear your full thought.
JIM:Right. So, basically, he he forgets more and more, but he has set up a system for himself. Like, you need to put money in this bank account. Mhmm. You like like, so he makes sure he tries to make sure to remember the things he wants and needs to remember.
T.C.:Jason Bourne.
JIM:But he kinda keeps forgetting, like like, he forgets the important things
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
JIM:In in doing it. But, like, he keeps saying, I don't know. I don't know why I need to put $5,000 in this bank account Just
T.C.:do it.
JIM:Every month. Yeah. But I do. For his family. Because because I have this this note or tattoo or or whatever.
T.C.:So Guy Pierce no. Guy Pierce has already been in the MCU. He can't do it. Stop suggesting him.
JIM:My bad.
T.C.:He was killing him.
JIM:He was?
T.C.:Yeah. And he was killed in
JIM:flames. I Killed in flames. I still don't have a name for Yelena's
T.C.:The hair black wizard. Hammer time. It's hammer time. Hammer time, baby. Justin, hammer.
JIM:Hammer hammer hammer. Hammer and nail. The gods must be vibranium.
T.C.:Hammer and sickle. Sickle and hammer. Well, hammer and sickle. That that is the that is the Soviet Soviet emblem. Right?
T.C.:And he did suggest that to begin with. Yeah. Man, it's just black widow, hammer hammer and sickle.
JIM:Okay.
T.C.:Right? Because she's the blade, and he's the hammer. Mhmm. She's the hammer and the blade. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. A nice little brief conversation about taskmaster there. But, yeah, I don't think there's a story there. And ghosts, there's so little to work with anyway, and her story has been explained.
T.C.:Okay. She was experimenting.
JIM:Yeah. I right. It it would be, okay. Let's tell an interesting one of her bank robbery stories.
T.C.:You know, nothing nothing there. So, really, it's characters like those that I feel if you if we were to take Taskmaster and put him against Daredevil. Okay. Now we got something here. We got these two characters who have conflicted emotions and memories and fighting fighting similar fighting styles.
JIM:Mhmm.
T.C.:And now now we have something interesting to do by just taking another character with ghost robbing a bank, having her have or maybe just some sort
JIM:of Well, and there there are plenty of heroes that it would be fun to put them up against, but then it becomes a much bigger thing. Right? We can't
T.C.:just And I'm not saying we
JIM:do that. Have, like, oh, just this this fun little Disney plus special
T.C.:That cost $15,000,000
JIM:to pick you. Where Tom Holland reprises Spider Man Yeah. Stopping ghosts from robbing a bank.
T.C.:Right. And that's that's like Like,
JIM:as cool as that would be to watch a a phaser go up against Spider Man.
T.C.:Slinger. Yeah.
JIM:Or or an eidetic copier go up against Spider Man.
T.C.:Just basically anyone going up against Spider Man. Spider's mans. Yeah. Do a flip. Yeah.
T.C.:Right. And and I'm not suggesting that. I'm I'm saying as far as comics go, when a character is this type, they I don't like comics like these necessarily where it's like, oh, let's do a miniseries about Bane or Sabertooth. Like, I don't I don't need that.
JIM:For the most part, I don't. Like like, I say that, but then then I end up reading one and, like, no. Actually, that was really good. But also, right, even a miniseries, you can tell just a fight scene in a comic book. It's 22 pages.
JIM:It's what even at six panels a page, 22, that's a that's a 100 some panels. Right. But you still like like, one comic is Wolverine fighting the Hulk. Mhmm. Right?
JIM:So so that's not a whole movie.
T.C.:Right. It's just
JIM:That's that's maybe an episode of television. A twenty two minute episode of television.
T.C.:Right. Right. Right. Right. So I'm I don't think we have a taskmaster or ghostist, and we weren't asked to do one.
T.C.:We were asked the three the three big characters, and I think we got it. Red Guardian, Winter Soldier, and then Black Widow. And this would be a cool trilogy of stuff.
JIM:With a a whole lot of de aging tech on on everyone involved.
T.C.:We got that Disney money. Okay? You know the only thing Disney money can't be spent on? Getting rid of that eyebrow dye job on Thor, the first Thor. You got the money.
T.C.:Fix it.
JIM:You know, I learned last I think it was last week that She Hulk is one of the top three most expensive TV shows.
T.C.:Ever made? Yeah. What a shame. I I I really enjoyed She Hulk.
JIM:So did I. Yeah. Didn't think it was didn't think it ranged up there.
T.C.:It's because they got Mark Ruffalo. They had to pay for Mark Ruffalo.
JIM:I thought it was Scar.
T.C.:Oh, god. That's the worst effect in the whole ep in the whole show. Oh my god. Alright. Well, okay, everyone.
T.C.:We're gonna wrap it up here. Matthias, you gotta let us know how we did, but how you listening, how do you think we did? You can hit us up if you agree, disagree. What'd we miss? How'd you like to expand this?
JIM:Would you call the Elena's episode?
T.C.:Hammertime. You can message us directly at studio demands it dot com or on Instagram at studio demands it. Find the post for this episode and feel free to comment there. Weirdly enough, most of the people who comment on Instagram are people who say they don't like our ideas, but that's fine. You're feeding the algorithm anyway.
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JIM:Reddit. We got a subreddit. R slash studio demands it. Come join the conversation. Maybe we'll be there.
JIM:You don't know. It'll be super fun. Good time. We'll all talk together. Or come on Discord where we are doing the same thing.
JIM:You can join us there by going to our website studiodemandsit.com. And at the top of the web page, there is a permanent link for an invite to the server.
T.C.:Overlords.
JIM:Overlords indeed.
T.C.:If you are not aware, we have a Patreon for a couple bucks a month. Couple bucks a month.
JIM:Couple bucks a month.
T.C.:You can get episodes early, commercial free, and extended double length episodes, including what was what's attached to this episode,
JIM:which is
T.C.:an hour long conversation of Colin Trevorrow's Star Wars Episode nine.
JIM:You were really excited about it.
T.C.:I was so excited share with you. Just didn't realize how long it was gonna be. But you can get that over at Patreon, and we have movie commentary tracks. We recently did Rise of Skywalker. And in those commentary tracks, often, as you will see in time stamp descriptions, we have bonus episodes and conversations within those commentary tracks.
T.C.:So it's not just watching a movie with us, you can hear us talk forever about other things. You can show some love on Patreon by just subscribing for free. It costs you nothing. A massive thank you to Six Five Media who has brought us to you for all these six seasons now. Thank you, Six Five Media.
JIM:Thank you.
T.C.:Check out those other Six Five shows linked on the bottom of our page, Jim.
JIM:Here I am.
T.C.:Unless you have anything else. That's for this episode.
JIM:There I go.
T.C.:We did it. We just did three special presentations. Marvel oh, wait. I I just met Thijs. Wait.
T.C.:You're whispering this into Kevin Feige's ear as he sleeps.
JIM:Appreciate it. Yeah. Love it.
T.C.:Tell him I am a fan of his baseball caps. He's a man who wears a lot of baseball caps.
JIM:So do you.
T.C.:And so do I. Yeah. Mine has my name on it. Yeah. His his have all the Marvel movies he's made, which are Legion.
T.C.:Did he no. He didn't produce Legion.
JIM:That was No. He didn't. Yep.
T.C.:Sorry, Kevin. But, yeah, whisper these ideas to him. Anyway, that's it. Thank you so much. I will be back again soon.
JIM:Bye bye. To do another one
T.C.:of these demands for you folks to do what we do.
JIM:Bye bye. I don't know why I'm saying it like that. Bye bye.
T.C.:What's what's Russian for goodbye? Dostovania. There was a lot of Russian in this episode.
JIM:Yeah. There was.
T.C.:Dostovania. The Red Guardian lives.