Courage: Step Boldly in Faith with Karen Laos

In this powerful and deeply honest episode, Jen Porter sits down with her dear friend Karen Laos for a soul-stirring conversation about courage, confidence, and identity in Christ—and what it really takes for women to use their voices in high-stakes moments.

Karen, a keynote speaker, executive advisor, and TEDx coach, shares formative stories from her life that shaped her relationship with courage—from negotiating at a flea market as a child, to freezing in a corporate boardroom, to summoning the bravery to ask boldly for what God placed on her heart. With vulnerability and wisdom, she reveals how self-doubt often disguises itself as politeness, over-accommodation, or “not wanting to bother anyone”—especially for women.

Together, Jen and Karen explore how faith transforms courage: not as a personality trait, but as a decision rooted in obedience and trust. They unpack Joshua 1:9, the tension between waiting for confidence and choosing commitment, and why God calls us to obedience—not outcomes. Karen shares a moving vision of being surrounded not by critics or expectations, but by God Himself—a reminder that courage flows from knowing who stands with us.

This episode is filled with practical wisdom, sacred storytelling, and gentle challenges for women who feel called to speak up, step forward, and lead—whether in the boardroom, at home, or in their calling. If you’ve ever struggled to trust your voice, ask boldly, or take the next brave step God is inviting you into, this conversation will meet you right where you are.

✨ Be strong and courageous. The Lord your God is with you. ✨

Find Karen:
https://karenlaos.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenlaos/
Her book "Trust Your Own Voice"  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B2KNN9PK

Connect with Jen:
https://www.jenportercoach.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenportercoach/

Creators and Guests

Host

Jen Porter

Jen Porter is a faith-centered coach and podcast host who empowers women to live boldly from their identity in Christ, rooted in truth, courage, and holy confidence.

Guest

Karen Laos

Through her Confidence Cocktail™, Karen Laos helps women executives speak boldly, ask powerfully, and silence self-doubt—one high-stakes conversation at a time.

What is Lioness Women: Rooted in Christ?

Welcome to Lioness Women, a space for faith-fueled women to connect with their purpose and amplify their voices. These Lioness Conversations highlight purpose-driven women who share how their faith in Christ shapes their leadership, courage, and calling. 🦁

Hosted by Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach, this podcast shines a light on women who are leading with wisdom, strength, and grace — in boardrooms, businesses, ministries, and movements around the world.

Through raw, inspiring conversations, we explore how women of faith are building legacies, overcoming fear, and transforming their industries with bold vision and unshakable belief. If you’re ready to rise higher, lead with purpose, and stay rooted in Christ — this is your community.

Faith-Based Leadership | Christian Women | Women of Faith | Christian Podcast for Women | Kingdom Leadership | Spiritual Growth | Eternal Impact

Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of Lioness Women Rooted in Christ. I'm your host, Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women who want to put God at the center of everything that we do. I have a really special treat for you today. I want to introduce Karen Laos Karen is a keynote speaker, executive advisor.

and TEDx coach with over 25 years guiding senior leaders. On a mission to silence self-doubt in 10 million women, she equips executives with the presence, confidence, and voice to lead with authority, influence with clarity, and unmistakable impact. And she is my dear friend. Karen, welcome to the show.

Karen Laos (00:50)
Thank you, Jen. I just love you.

Jen Porter (00:52)
I love you

too. I mean, we connected from the very first time we spoke. I remember it vividly and we've been friends ever since and been cheering each other on ⁓ in our work and in our faith. It's just a beautiful messy path, isn't it?

Karen Laos (01:04)
Yeah, it's so great.

Yes.

Yes, it's so wonderful to have friends that are true believers in Christ, like want to live their life and you are that, Jen, live that out every day. And I am so grateful to know you.

Jen Porter (01:24)
thank you. The feeling is completely mutual. Yeah, I was really excited. So I reached out to you when I decided that I was going to do this Identity in Christ series. And we are in week four of the series. We focused on what it is to be God's beloved, because everything, the foundation of everything is love. Then we moved to blessed. What it means to be a daughter of the King and the blessings and being blessed that comes from that.

and then being chosen, which is such a tender thing, especially for women and for girls. And when I reached out to you, I didn't even tell you what I was focusing on other than identity in Christ, and I said, what resonates with you? And you said, courage. And you referenced Joshua 1-9, which God has used in my life to get me to move into the direction that He wanted. And so I'm really excited to have this conversation about

being courageous in Christ with you. I'd love to just start by asking you, when you think back over your life, when do you remember, when did you first have awareness that you needed to have courage?

Karen Laos (02:34)
I was going to say when I was six years old and my dad gave me a few dollars at a flea market and said, go have fun, never pay full price. But I don't even remember feeling like I needed to have courage. I think this and I did negotiate, by the way. And that was one of the first moments where I realized, my gosh, I have this power. And I didn't know that you could do that and look beyond what's.

Jen Porter (02:42)
Hahaha!

Karen Laos (02:59)
on the price tag or on the menu and ask for what you want. But I also want to say that it's an interesting question because I have been told throughout my entire life that I'm courageous, but I would not have thought of myself that way. Probably like each of us, we have the strengths and gifts that we have. mean, we're walking in our own skin all the time, so we don't often see things unless we get external feedback.

So I remember somebody saying, wow, it was so courageous for you to move from Minnesota across the country to San Francisco and drive here and just land here. I'm thinking, like I didn't think that was that courageous because it's just what I wanted to do. And so it's an interesting question that you ask because I feel like that was so embedded in me as a child that almost like this idea that I didn't know that there was another way.

Jen Porter (03:41)
Yeah.

Karen Laos (03:56)
But what I will tell you, I'm thinking about a very specific time in my life that was very uncomfortable. And I know you'll relate to this because of your book coming out, or maybe it's already out when the time that this recording goes live. asking a very prominent person who's famous to endorse my book. it took everything in me to ask.

I had a moment where I was with him in a public setting and I just at first I couldn't. He was talking to me. I just couldn't. I couldn't. And then finally he got up with his plate to go put his food away or his plate in a way. I thought and I had just been praying with a friend right before that. God, give me an opportunity to talk to this person at this conference. And I got the words out, stumbled through it, but got the words out.

And it was so cool is that he goes, I'll do you. He goes, Karen, I don't even endorse books for my friends anymore, but I will do you one better. I'll have you on my podcast. And that's going to be even better for you because it's going to be more exposure. So I that is a moment that I remember vividly because I was like, I don't want to I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. But I knew I had to do it. I knew I had to do it. And it felt so good to finally get it out. And then the result was even better than I expected.

Jen Porter (05:18)
So you could totally relate because a lot of women and girls feel that way about maybe things that are not as big.

Karen Laos (05:26)
Right, exactly. This could be a simple, yeah, think about, I work with a lot of women who say they have a hard time even asking for something at a restaurant. Or even I'm thinking about somebody who said, Karen, I even have a hard time asking people at the end of the Thanksgiving table to pass the mashed potatoes.

Jen Porter (05:27)
Do you know the feeling?

night.

Karen Laos (05:47)
So these I hear so much, I don't want to bother people. well, I didn't want to bother them. And that is definitely what I heard from my mom growing up. I mean, it is like a tape that played over and over again multiple times a day because she was always calling people to get volunteers at church for different events. And she was in charge of a lot of things at church. And I remember she was, you know, hi, Marge, I'm sorry to bother you. That was always her first line.

Jen Porter (06:16)
Hmm.

Karen Laos (06:17)
So I think about how I grew up with a mom that really showed through her language that she didn't value herself or that she looked at other people as more valuable than her. And that is such a common thing, though. I hear that a lot. I don't want to bother you.

Jen Porter (06:35)
What got you into this line of work of helping other women be courageous and confident?

Karen Laos (06:41)
I had a moment in the boardroom when I was in a corporate leadership role and I couldn't get the words out. I was supposed to present something that my boss had suggested and I was in front of eight people looking at me and my stomach was in my throat. I would stop and start and halt in my speech. And then finally my boss, who was the president of the company, shut down the meeting in a very nice way. But then,

She pulled me aside right after that and into her office and she said, Karen, you didn't trust your gut. You could have just tabled the meeting. And I remember thinking, what? I could have tabled the meeting. That was an option. And then secondly, I thought, why do I keep asking for permission all the time?

Jen Porter (07:24)
Yeah.

Karen Laos (07:25)
And that was the moment that really set out for me to figure out what is the root of my challenge. And it took no, it took definitely a couple of years to realize, oh, my gosh, I was holding back because she's the archetype of my dad. So even though I was this successful person on stage and coaching people.

I want to remind anybody listening that you can have these great strengths in certain areas, but we all have our kryptonite or these places where we aren't comfortable. She was dismissive sometimes, my boss, and I was always trying to please her. She had this assertiveness that my dad had. And also, I was taught as a kid, you don't question your boss. I came from a very traditional home where my dad was in charge.

My mom wasn't allowed to work outside of the home and she did what he told her to do. And so I learned, you don't really get to speak unless you get permission from a man or the authority figure and usually they're the same. But I also had my dad who was always saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease you don't have unless you ask. And so he was very passionate about asking.

His was very determined. so my reconciliation of that now, many years later, I can say this that what I took from that as a kid is that if you are showcasing value, like if you're producing something for someone, if you are accomplishing something like I can teach people how to be great speakers. OK, that is I can accomplish that. That's a tangible result. But when it just comes to me and my voice.

What my mom modeled is that my voice didn't really matter. So I didn't know how to voice that with my boss in advance because the reason, multiple reasons, but the root of the problem of why I wasn't able to get the words out is because I didn't agree with what she asked me to present.

I was taught you don't question your boss, you just figure it out. And I knew she wanted me to present on this for a few months, but I kept thinking, okay, like it's me, I got to figure this out. And when it really came time though, I couldn't in integrity do it.

Jen Porter (09:47)
No, it's like your body wouldn't let you.

Karen Laos (09:49)
Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so this is again, I want to encourage anybody listening, regardless of where you're at in your life, that it's these micro moments of action that can help. So a courageous act in a low stakes scenario, like at a restaurant or with a friend or, you know, some scenario where there's nothing really that's going to

I mean, I don't know. Everybody has a different opinion about what high stakes is, I suppose. But thinking about where you could practice some of these skills.

Jen Porter (10:25)
Definitely. You know what makes me think? I often coach people to state their intention. Especially if they're working on something, they're trying to develop a new muscle or skill to do it with those very safe, trusted people and to say, hey, Karen, I'm actually working on being brave. And I'm going to say this and it feels really scary, but it's important. And then to say the thing.

Karen Laos (10:38)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Yep.

Jen Porter (10:51)
But to state that intention of the, or even with a boss, I'm really working on my presentation skills. And so you're gonna see me in this meeting doing some things that are gonna take a lot of courage for me, and I'm gonna try something different. I want you to be there to support me, but also to give me some...

Karen Laos (10:56)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (11:09)
some feedback so that I can get better at this. Because if people know that you're trying to grow in a particular area, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people are gonna wanna be in that supportive posture to help and cheer you on.

Karen Laos (11:24)
Exactly. I love that. That is such a brilliant tip.

Jen Porter (11:29)
And even with our family, could be, I say like, in any kind of relationship, there's a dance that we're doing. And anytime we change those dance steps, we kind of need to give the other person a heads up. And hey, I'm gonna be showing up differently. And this is what you're gonna see me doing. It doesn't matter, the relationship, as long as it's...

Karen Laos (11:36)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (11:50)
Well, that doesn't matter if they're supportive of you. It's helpful. It's helpful if they're supportive of you.

Karen Laos (11:55)
Yeah, it's helpful. was going to say, yeah.

And I think that it's fun. It's what you're talking about reminds me of declaring, like taking ownership of declaring what you're going to be working on. And I also think it builds connection because people go, like, it's like when you're vulnerable with somebody and then it inspires somebody else to be able to be the same way back.

Jen Porter (12:20)
Yeah. So how has faith played a role in your journey when you've needed to take those leaps of faith or those bigger steps of courage?

Karen Laos (12:29)
Well, for me, it is everything. It really is. I lead my life through prayer and on the best days, I am asking God for his guidance and really as the CEO of my business. And of course, I'm not perfect. I definitely want to make sure everybody hears that loud and clear. I do my best to seek him for decisions. And I find that that is the thing that really grounds me.

to go, okay, and sometimes it helps me to get outside of myself if I'm focused on this is God's purpose for me. Or let's say it might be an ask that I'm afraid to make maybe. I mean, let's face it, I think nobody likes to ask for help or business or whatever, you know, whatever situation you might be in. And for me specifically, it's around business, which is it's hard to do reach outs and

just connect with people, although it's funny how there is such a block for a lot of us. And I've been finding this in myself even. First of all, I think we all want to be pursued. It's so much more exciting when somebody reaches out to us and asks us for something. But here's the part that I've had to really remember. Number one, this is what God has put me on the planet to do. And then the second part of that or integrated with that is

Jen Porter (13:34)
Yes.

Karen Laos (13:51)
being able to remember that I'm I'm offering something of value to someone. This isn't like, pick me, pick me. is, wow, if we work together, here are the results that you're going to get.

Jen Porter (13:57)
Yes.

Karen Laos (14:05)
And it's funny how even though I know that and I can sit here and say this in this moment, I still have a hard time reaching out to people like, hey, how you doing?

Jen Porter (14:15)
How do you, there's a way, and I've done this for many years, doing things in my own strength. There's a way to operate as a business owner and a leader in our own strength. And then there's a way to be more in a position of following what God is asking of us. How do you discern the difference? Because what I find is when we are in that flow of the Holy Spirit, things happen.

Karen Laos (14:42)
Hmm.

Yes. Yes.

Jen Porter (14:45)
Right, so how does that work

for you?

Karen Laos (14:48)
Yeah, I find that, gosh, sometimes it's hard to tell for sure. I find that this is a hard question to answer. I'd say one, because I'm thinking about another story, is that that's why I'm hemming and hawing here, because I'm thinking about I remember once I want to I want to divert for just a moment because I remember getting prayer at Bethel Church in northern California.

and their well-known church for just a lot of miracles happening and things. And so I went and I remember asking this guy, these two guys were going to pray for me. I remember them, I asked for prayer and then they said, but I so something like I want God to give me guidance. And they said, well, what do you want? And I said, well, I want God to give the guidance. And they said, well, God wants to know what you want, too.

And that was the first time that I really thought about, wow, the difference between just kind of passive dependence of, OK, whatever you want, God versus God. am going for this. Like for me right now, it's I want to reach 10 million women by 2030. And Lord, if it is your will, that is what I want. But I'm declaring what I want. Will you please honor my request? And then I love Mark 11, 24. That's therefore I tell you.

Whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it and it shall be yours. And that feels like a very bold thing, but it's in God's word. So that's what came to mind when you were talking about this. So what helps me be in flow is that combination of my desires, declaring my desires, because I do think God wants to know our hearts and have us, he knows our hearts, but I mean,

Jen Porter (16:17)
Yes.

Karen Laos (16:34)
What I have learned is that he wants us to say them out loud and be specific and then he'll do the rest. And that's the thing that I continue to see also just in thinking about opportunities again, regardless of where people are at in their lives that when we show up, when we say yes to things or just show up for the the meeting or for the party or for the school event, know, whatever it is.

Jen Porter (16:42)
Yeah. Yeah.

Karen Laos (17:04)
there's your God's gonna do the rest. Like I think about all the times that I have either been to a conference or I said yes to I remember once here's a quick I have to tell you this story. So saying yes and then what's happened. So during COVID I remember staying up I'm a late night person. I had committed to a networking event at 9am online.

Jen Porter (17:14)
Yeah.

Karen Laos (17:25)
And it was to 9. I think I went to bed at 3 in the morning. I was so tired and I just wanted to keep sleeping. But I literally told myself, put on your big girl panties and show up as you said you were going to be there. Well, that meeting, not only did I meet a new friend, but I met the person who then a week later, because we liked each other on that call so much. Let's let's schedule a call. We did a trade and she is the one that helped me like.

launched my podcast. Like she literally helped me from step one within six weeks from that day I had a podcast and I haven't stopped since and that was in 2021.

Jen Porter (18:04)
That's amazing. I want to share a story that it reminds me of because what I'm hearing and what you're saying is there's a decision involved. When so I showed up to an online event and didn't know anybody there were probably a hundred there were like multiple pages on zoom right you know how there's so many people there's like pages it was like my place not know the person leading it.

Karen Laos (18:19)
Yes, but you can't. Yes, yes, yes.

Jen Porter (18:24)
But he had sent us a little tiny whiteboard in advance to use during the workshop. And so at one point he said, what do you need? What do you need? What do you need? And we were supposed to write it down. And I wrote, I need to be brave. Because God was asking me to do some bigger things. And so I held up my little panel, my little whiteboard and my little square on Zoom. And he starts going through and he calls me out. And he said, Jen, to be brave?

And he goes, I am so tired of hearing people say they need more courage or they need to be more brave. And I was, you know, taking it back. But here's what he said that stuck with me. He said, you don't need more bravery. You need to decide what you're committed to. And it, I was like, he's right. He's right. I don't need.

Karen Laos (19:12)
UGH!

have to write that down. Wow.

Jen Porter (19:18)
to wait until I have more courage, muscles, or bravery, I just need to make a decision about what I'm committed to. And that's what I hear in your story. You were committed to that meeting, and so you showed up.

Karen Laos (19:28)
Wow.

Yes.

my gosh, that is such a good quote. I just wrote it down.

Jen Porter (19:38)
It's like it's

wrong, right? The way he did it was a little bit abrupt. It obviously changed. It changed me, Karen, because it was like, no, I know what I'm committed to. I know what I'm committed to. And it's just like you.

Karen Laos (19:42)
I'm sure, yes. Yes.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Well,

that's like the podcast for you deciding.

Jen Porter (19:57)
Yes,

that's right, I made the decision, I committed to it. And does it take courage? I have so freaking limply. It does, it takes courage every day to show up and do, especially when we're doing something new, my goodness, it's hard. But the more we take brave steps,

Karen Laos (20:00)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

my gosh, yes.

Jen Porter (20:17)
the easier those steps become no matter what they are because we've got evidence. We did it before. That was hard. I remember the feeling. I know what this feels like in my body, all the butterflies, all the anxiety, but I've done this before and I can do it again.

Karen Laos (20:24)
Yeah.

Yes.

Exactly. Exactly. my gosh. Yes. And that's a great example of, some people talk about the ego brain, like subconscious versus conscious. And I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but this idea that sometimes it's our ego brain that doubts and says, no, and is trying to protect us from a safety perspective. And so I love the fact that we can tell it.

Ego brain. Hey, I have evidence that this has worked before so you can relax.

Jen Porter (21:03)
It's okay. Yeah.

What does Joshua 1-9 mean to you? And just for the audience that may not know that one, ⁓ this is the scripture that says that where God is saying to Joshua, strong and courageous because he has called him to a battle. He's called him to fight and to be a leader of an army. actually Joshua 1-6 through 9

Karen Laos (21:13)
Okay.

Jen Porter (21:26)
God says be strong and courageous and he says it three times in those few passages and he the second time he says it in my version it says be strong and very courageous. God has drawn me to that scripture when I've needed it in my life but what what does that mean to you?

Karen Laos (21:32)
Yeah.

Mmm.

It really means to step out in faith and trust that God is going to be with you. I had this vision a few months ago. I don't even remember what I was going through at the time, but I remember just kneeling down and praying. And it's hard to describe a vision per se, but how I envisioned it. And then I ended up drawing it on a piece of paper that

I was standing there solidly in like an arena in the middle of an arena, like a bullpen or like a think about gladiator, you where they fought. And I had all of these people around me. And I don't know. It's funny because what I don't remember is if they were for me or against me. But I think it was more like, I don't know, but it doesn't matter.

because it's that song, you may think that I'm going to cry. You may think that I'm surrounded, but I'm surrounded by you. this seeing it was interesting even as I drew the stick figure and I'm not an artist by any means, but I just drew this little stick figure like I was a little girl. That's how it felt like. And then all these people around me, you I think it just represented all the people that, you know, we want to

Jen Porter (22:49)
Mm.

Karen Laos (23:09)
please or that are criticizing or that are supporting. But at the end of the day, it's, you know, sometimes it, it feels like you're surrounded by all of these forces. And really it's, I'm surrounded by God. And that's what that vision really meant to me.

Jen Porter (23:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

Incredible, incredible.

Karen Laos (23:29)
So I think

about the courage to be able to stand and that's probably what was significant about it is that I was seeing myself from behind, which was also interesting. Like I didn't put a face, it was just a head. And the idea that God is behind me, he's around me, he's within me, regardless of who's around me.

Jen Porter (23:48)
Yes.

So true, so true. it's so, in the passage, the only thing that God gives Joshua as the reason why he should be strong and courageous and very courageous is because the Lord your God will be with you. That's what he says. That's the only thing he gives him is like, just do this, you're gonna be okay, because I'm gonna be with you. It didn't say because your army is so strong and powerful and there's so many horses and...

Karen Laos (24:05)
That's right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Details.

Jen Porter (24:19)
because I'm with you.

Karen Laos (24:24)
That's a good point, Jen, because God doesn't give us all the details most of the time. Yeah. I know.

Jen Porter (24:29)
No, he doesn't. And it's so uncomfortable.

We want to know how is this going to work? How is he going to do this? What is this going to look like? You know, the other thing that has struck me is that God does call us to be obedient, but he doesn't call us to the outcome.

Karen Laos (24:48)
That's so true. that makes it so hard sometimes. Yes. And that, but that is such a beautiful thing. So I know we talked a little bit about this before recording that obedience for me has never felt like a fun word, I think because I was always so uber obedient growing up that I never had this rebellious childhood time. So I think as an adult, I thought I deserve to, you know, break the rules or whatever. But it has.

Jen Porter (24:50)
It's his. The outcome is his.

Hahaha!

Karen Laos (25:16)
There is something so like even if I go back to that visual of God just surrounding me regardless of people that are there or not how incredibly confident I can feel with Knowing that if my if I'm obedient, it's like we reap what we sow, right? It's that same thing that if I release the outcome to God, which is also so hard to do But releasing it is such a relief

And then I think I never really quite got, even though I know it sounds, maybe it sounds silly, but the verse in Matthew about, I will give you rest or take my yoke upon you. I never really understood like, what's a yoke exactly? How does that work? And to me, that's very similar, that the obedience stems from abiding in. So however you want to look at it, whether you're the vine,

or you're attached to the vine, you're attached to the plow as a horse or whatever. either, mean, some of those visuals are a little, yeah, you're like, use whatever works. Right. But this idea of being carried, I think that's really what I would say, like being carried by God. And then knowing the payoff that enables me

Jen Porter (26:15)
It's hard.

You're brutal.

Karen Laos (26:36)
to be obedient.

Jen Porter (26:39)
Yes, yes.

Karen Laos (26:40)
And then also,

because I know what it's been like when I haven't been obedient and things have not gone well.

Jen Porter (26:46)
You know what the crazy thing about all of it is that when we do follow Christ and we are, at least we seek to be obedient, right? We need his help to even do that. But our posture is obedience and we're trying. What's amazing about it is that joy comes and a meaningful, like a significance comes when we're operating in his kingdom.

Karen Laos (26:56)
Right, of course.

Yes!

Yeah.

Jen Porter (27:12)
which

is way more deeply satisfying than anything that the world can offer us. It's so relevant.

Karen Laos (27:17)
Yeah, it's so true.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (27:20)
Okay, I hate to do this, but we have to wrap up. So, first of all,

Karen Laos (27:25)
And I do,

Jen, I have a few more minutes. I put that in that behind the scenes, but I understand if you need to wrap up. Yeah.

Jen Porter (27:28)
Okay, well, I want to make sure people know how to find you. Your work

is incredible and I've been inspired by you from the moment we met. The ambition that you have to support and help women to be their best, to break that cycle of imposter syndrome and self-doubt, to help women

be as courageous as they need to be in order to do the work that they're called to do in this world is so essential and your you know your mission has always just so inspired me.

Karen Laos (28:02)
Thank you. That means the world to me.

Jen Porter (28:05)
So people can find you at KarenLaos.com

Karen Laos (28:08)
Yes, and it's spelled L-A-O-S. And I'm also on Instagram and LinkedIn regularly. I have two offers, two for folks. One is my podcast called Ignite Your Confidence for anyone who is looking for tips on how to speak up and stand out. And then I also...

Jen Porter (28:24)
And let me repeat

that, so Ignite Your Confidence, Ignite Your Confidence is your podcast. People need to check it out.

Karen Laos (28:27)
confidence. Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, and then my book is called Trust Your Own Voice, and that is very similar guidebook for women on how to grow their influence through confident communication skills. So it's very practical what to do with your jet, your facial expressions, your voice. What if you have to have a difficult conversation, if you have to set boundaries, if you need to negotiate, there's all kinds of tips in there.

Jen Porter (28:58)
Such a practical tool. Amazing. So say the name of the title of the book again. Trust your...

Karen Laos (29:02)
Trust your

own voice.

Jen Porter (29:04)
your own voice. my gosh, because I'm just thinking how much work I do as a coach in helping women trust their own voice and trust their intuition too, which for me is the Holy Spirit. ⁓ Trust that Holy Spirit inside of us. Well, I want to leave the listeners with an encouragement that comes from Joshua 1-9, and that is to be strong and courageous because the Lord your God is with you.

Karen Laos (29:14)
Yes. Yes, exactly.

Jen Porter (29:31)
Thank you for being with us, Karen. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Everybody check Karen out, her book, follow her on social and her website. if you know, I just want to say this too, Karen is a gifted, gifted teacher and speaker and coach. If you know a body, a group, a company, a corporation that could use

powerful speaker. Karen is your gal. So reach out to Karen and she will transform your culture.

Karen Laos (30:03)
Thank you, Jen.

Jen Porter (30:05)
Thanks so much. Well, until the next episode, the lioness in me sees the lioness in you.