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We share our thoughts and ideas on how to grow a business.
We have developed an app, it's
called Traqer.ai, and it's an app
to basically see where you rank
in ai, search engines, chat, GBT,
and others for specific keywords.
There's a lot of people kind of being
like, okay, let's have some tool
around like understanding AI search.
We are coming at this and
Traqer.ai approaches this in a very
specific way, which is a tool for
companies or agencies that want.
To see if their brand is
mentioned for specific keywords.
With ai, you're losing a lot of
the ability to attribute leads
to specific pieces of content.
But now with Traqer.ai, it kind of gives
you that visibility into what are the
bottom of the funnel terms, or what are
those keywords that I'm ranking for?
And so it can directionally tell you where
to focus from a a content perspective.
Welcome to the Grow and
Convert Marketing Show.
I am excited, Benji's, excited about
this episode because we have developed
an app, uh, which we don't normally do.
We are a content marketing agency.
Um, and so what we're gonna do is
talk about the backstory of how that
happened, and we're gonna walk through
the app and just kind of introduce it.
It is a, um, it's called
Traqer.ai with T-R-A-Q-E-R .ai.
Um, and it's an app to basically
see where you rank in AI search
engines, ChatGPT, and others
for very, for specific keywords.
And so we'll talk about.
Also the landscape of what
other kind of AI search, keyword
ranking type tools we've seen.
Um, but let's start with our backstory.
So we will link to this video, but um,
several videos ago or episodes ago on
the show, we had Katelyn on to talk
about a study that we published on
our site that she championed and did,
looking at the correlation between
ranking and Google and showing up
in these LLMs ChatGPT perplexity.
What else Did she check?
Google ai.
Google.
Google, yeah.
And Claude.
And there she looked at something
really specific, which is if, if for
the keywords where we're already ranking
a client in the top 10 spots, and then
she also looked at the top three spots.
How, how, what percentage of the
time were we showing up in ai?
And the answers were somewhere
in that 60 to 80% spot.
We also showed that if you're ranking
in top three, the chances of viewing
mentioned by AI is higher than when
you're only ranking in the top 10.
Suggesting ranking higher is even better.
We also showed that higher DR.
Domain rating or domain authority
clients had even a higher percentage,
and so overall it showed like SEO
success was very much correlated.
With visibility in LLM, like
chat tools like chatha, pt, and
we'll link to the full article.
You can read it.
When we published it, clients
of ours said, oh really cool.
Can we see this for all of our keywords?
Can we see our specific data?
'cause obviously in the study
we just showed the overall
numbers and so we said, uh, okay.
And then we had to go
and like do it manually.
Katelyn was doing a lot of these
manually and then I think it was
you and Katelyn, Benji were like.
And then I got Was the pain this request?
Yeah.
I got this request from a client
and they wanted it for all their
keywords, which was I think like
over 50 that we had gone after.
And so I was just, I just said, I
can't have Katelyn do this anymore.
I need to look for a tool
that does this for us.
And I started to search for
tools that could help us, uh,
with tracking in these LLMs.
And there weren't too many out there.
There was, there were a couple that were
focused on enterprise and I don't know if
they did exactly what we were looking for.
And then there was
another product out there.
That did tracking and it was pretty
much what we were looking for.
But the, the problem was that
they didn't allow multiple brands.
So it wasn't really meant for an agency.
It was meant if you were an individual
company and looking to see how you
were ranking in these LLMs, you could
use their product, but there wasn't
an easy way to use this product to
basically track multiple companies.
So.
That's where the idea came from.
We, we just said, okay, there
doesn't seem to be a tool out there.
We can't do this manually
'cause it's too time consuming.
The existing products on the market
really only serve one company
or they're for the enterprise.
Can we just build something?
And so that's kind of what we spent the
last couple months doing is building
this product and let's walk through
the homepage of it and, and I'll walk
through the features and then Benji
will look inside and show our own.
Grow and converts, um, kind
of data and stats in there.
I'm actually gonna start from
this second screen, which is
what Benji was talking about.
The tool that we did find and
try in your account, you could
just put in your brand name.
That's it.
So there was no place to put in multiple
brands, so it just wasn't built for
agencies, it was built for single brands.
And so the primary, like one important
thing here is we allow unlimited brands.
So here we're, we're showing
like a, a screenshot of three.
Benji will show his screen, um,
uh, uh, uh, of one of our accounts.
And, and there's like a, you
can add a bunch of brands.
We don't charge by brand.
Um, we charge by number
of total tracked keywords.
And so you can put as many of your
brands in there and you immediately
see like overall visibility stats.
So for like, you know, brand one out of 56
keywords you entered on ChatGPT, you have
50% visibility and another one, maybe only
seven, and another one 77%, et cetera.
And then when you click into one of
the brands, you, you enter the keywords
that you interested in seeing whether
chat, GPT, perplexity, Google a IO
reviews is mentioning your brand four.
So for, this is a hypothetical company,
Coupa for procurement software.
It says like, oh, you, you are number two
out of 10 for chat, GBT and perplexity
versus for inventory management.
You, you're not mentioned by either of
them, but there are 10 different brands
that are mentioned for that keyword
and that's another differentiation.
This is a little bit of a zooming
out, but there are, Benji you
said like there weren't a lot
then we have since done some.
You know, looking around and there seemed
to be a ton of these popping up, but what
we noticed is there's a lot of people
kind of being like, okay, let's have some
tool around like understanding AI search.
And we are coming at this and Traqer.ai
approaches this in a very specific way,
which is a tool for companies or agencies
that want to see if their brand is
mentioned for specific keywords versus
I'm seeing tools that are just like.
Like a, ah, refs has this like AI
brand understand or like feature inside
them, which is more like what in a
topic area, if we said like procurement
in this case or for us it'd be like
SEO or something in that topic area.
It's ah, ref's understanding or
analysis of what are the different like.
Queries and conversations people
are having in their case with
Google AI overview on that topic.
That's more, that's more equivalent
of keyword research for ai.
Like what are people typing in?
And then I've seen products that
are more like just generally trying
to like correlate your brand.
When is your brand being mentioned?
For what queries is your
brand being mentioned?
Like in a general sense?
It's just like.
I, I'm grouping all of this as
like general purpose, like brand
understanding in AI tools, but
Traqer.ai is something very specific.
It's not that it is, we have specific
keywords that we are interested in
and for us and from talking to a few
people that are, have said they're
interested in Traqer.ai already for other
people doing similar things like SEO.
You're saying these keywords are
important to us in this hypothetical
company, procurement software, business
spend management, blah, blah, blah.
And so for those keywords, I want
to know whether we are, whether
AI is mentioning our brand.
So that's one thing I wanted to mention.
And the last thing is you can then
click in and Ben will show this.
And c we, we produce the
entire AI response, and so you
can see the exact response.
We can see whether you're being linked
to as a source or it's literally
mentioning or listing your brand.
You can see whether it lists any
brands at all for certain keywords.
Um, this is a bit of an aside, but
there's a recent post that we should
also link to in the show notes that
Benji put out about how an AI search,
if your, if your SEO and the keywords
you're interested in are top of funnel.
In this case, like how does
procurement work in our case?
Like what is content marketing like
real top of funnel, probably AI
is not gonna mention any brands.
And so you'll be able to kind of see that.
Um, and then there's gonna be
like, there's weekly updates.
We're gonna have you,
you can easily share it.
You can click a link for one of these
reports like this and you can click
share, you can do a bunch of stuff.
So let me hand it over to you,
Benji, and you can show everyone.
Yeah, I mean, before we even go
into the specific product screens.
I think a, a, a couple things.
So the problem that this product is
solving, we've had a lot of clients start
to report on chat GPT leads coming in and
them having no idea what's like, what's
driving it, where it's coming from.
And so that's what this is meant to help.
Like I think the challenge going forward
with AI and attribution is there's no
product that is gonna be able to measure.
From blog posts to signup this
specific, uh, keyword or this
specific blog post drove that.
And, and so with ai you're losing
a lot of the ability to attribute
leads to specific pieces of content.
But now with Traqer.ai, it kind
of gives you that visibility into.
What are the bottom of the
funnel terms or what are those
keywords that I'm ranking for?
And so it can directionally tell you where
to focus from a, a content perspective.
So for example, you're, you're not gonna
really show up in Traqer.ai or for any
of these keywords if you don't really
have a page or content ranking For these,
at least I haven't really seen that.
And so it's just meant
to help you understand.
What terms and what phrases and what
answers you're showing up for in
these tools so that you can focus on
creating more content around those or
better optimizing some of those pages
on your site to show up for these.
Um, other questions that I know
have popped up, so people have
asked how, how we're handling
the personalization aspect of.
These answers.
So for example, if Davis was to go type
in best content marketing agencies, uh,
when he signed into chat GPT or some of
these other schools, uh, and then I was
doing it from a, a certain location and
the LLM and I have chatted with the LLMA
lot and told it a lot about different
types of businesses that I run or we are,
we're gonna get different results because
the LLM personalizes the answers to you.
So the tool isn't able to fully take
into account personalization yet.
There's some ways that we're thinking
of handling this in the future, but it's
meant to be a proxy for if you can even
show up for some of these uh, queries.
And I'm going to show
you exactly what I mean.
Let's look at just ours.
So I don't have a ton of the keywords that
we've gone after as an agency in here.
But you'll see how slight variations
in how something's phrased will give
you different responses here or,
or basically different rankings.
So in for SaaS content marketing agency,
we rank, uh, number 17 out of 18.
And if you were to click into this,
you can actually see all the different
companies that are listed here.
And then you can also see down here.
This is the actual prompt, uh,
response that came from chat GPT.
And so you can kind of see
how we're listed as number 18.
So does that mean that if someone was to
search for SaaS content marketing agency
that we're always going to be number
17 outta 18 or 18 outta 18 response?
No.
Actually, when I run this search for
my computer and I've actually had
other people that are not affiliated
with Grow and Convert, run the same
search, we can still rank as number one.
And we even have some clients that
have, uh, come to us saying that
they've searched for variations of SaaS
content marketing agency, and we were
the number one recommended response.
And so again, this is just meant to
serve as a proxy for understanding
that if someone was searching
for something more specific.
Uh, for SAS content marketing agency,
if we would even show up at all.
So I would be concerned if we
didn't return any response, then
yes, maybe we need to do some
better work on our site of creating
content around ranking for various
SAS content marketing agency terms.
Um, but yeah.
Any, anything else that I
should add there, David?
Yeah, I'll, I'll add a couple things.
So just for those that don't know, LLMs
are quote unquote non-deterministic,
meaning the same input, does not
produce the same output basically unlike
anything else we're used to in computers.
Almost always in computers, you
put this one thing in, it always
produces something else out.
And so even if you yourself run
SaaS content marketing agency.
Or, or ask it some question of
that, like, what are the best
ask content marketing agencies?
And then you start a new thread
at, with chat GBT and do it again.
Or even in the same thread.
It'll just give you another response
and, and it, and it won't be the
same as your first one, or there's
a good chance it won't be the same.
Um, and so here we're, we're also gonna be
like, it, it, it'll update automatically.
Um, that was one.
And then the other thing I wanted
to say is a lot of this is also, um.
To gauge this kind of directionally,
how much is your brand being mentioned?
So what you kind of started saying
Benji, but I guess didn't fully say
that, I'll say fully say here is
like actual usage is conversational.
And again, we're gonna link to
Benji's recent post on like our
thoughts on AI search and how
it differs from Google search.
But the, the big crux of the
beginning of that post is that AI
search is conversational and that
has fundamental differences in.
Uh, marketing consequences
versus Google search where
people always put in keywords.
So we've talked to our own clients
or leads that have said, I found
you on chat, GBT, of which there
are many all the time nowadays.
And they've, the, the stories they've
told is like they're having a conversation
with AI about like general business
problems, and along the way they say,
Hey, okay, like, what about like SEO
partners or content partners or vendors?
And then it mentions us and
it knows all of this context.
So if your question is
how do you check for that?
You can't, or at least we, we are
not currently and we don't know how
immediately because how do you check for
every possible human's like differences
and what conversation they're gonna have?
But our philosophy here and
how we're using it for our
clients and ourselves is look.
Yes.
You can't predict when some SaaS,
CMO, founder, whoever is asking chat
GBT about SaaS content marketing
agencies, the first keyword that's
being displayed on the screen right now.
But if you are not showing up for any
term in, when you put just that into
chat, GBT, that keyword into chat,
bt, which yes is an unrealistic chat.
But it's something if it never mentions
you and neither does perplexity and
neither does Google AI overview, and then
you put in multiple variants of that and
it still doesn't, then like, you know,
you're probably not getting mentioned
or not getting mentioned very often.
It in, in, in natural conversation.
That's the idea.
And so actually if you go back to
the brand screen for a second, Benji.
The idea here is as an agency, we can now
see multiple, like high level stats of
this brand has 64% coverage versus the
next 1, 31 versus 11 versus whatever.
And so, and, and you know, and later
we'll continue to build features out.
Like we could even track over time
how your percentage is increasing
or decreasing and things like that.
Right.
And so that's the idea is like AI is
a little bit of a black box from a
marketer's perspective, especially
compared to Google, but at least this
way now you can input the keywords
and topic areas that are important
for you or your brand or your client
and then see do we have some shot?
What is that percentage?
And, and is it giving us any love?
And then, you know, is
that growing over time?
What types of keywords
and topics are relevant?
I. So our philosophy is you don't
need to know the exact conversation
because you can't, and it's gonna
be different for every user.
Yeah.
'cause I was gonna say one, one thing
that a lot of people push back on
is like, well, what's, what's the.
Point of even typing in remedial
math, that's not how someone would
technically search in some LLM.
They're gonna enter in some long
paragraph or even multiple paragraphs
about the situation that they're in,
trying to describe all this detail.
And so what, what's the point
of even tracking remedial math?
Well.
The, the point is that yes,
people are gonna add a lot
of context to their search.
They're gonna say, this is the
situation I'm in, this is the,
the, the problem I'm experiencing.
What is the best solution for me?
And this might be.
The, the solution oriented keyword
that they actually type into the tool
with a bunch of additional context.
And what we're saying is if you
don't show up at all, then it's very
unlikely that, uh, the LLM, whether
it's chat, GPT or perplexity, we'll
even mention your brand at all.
So you need to do some work about writing
more content around this keyword so that
you do show up as one of these, uh, li uh.
One of the options in the list, and
again, you could be ranking or showing
up, or the answer could be actually
recommending you as the number one option
because of all the additional context.
But again, if you're not even showing
up, then chances are you are not going
to be, uh, recommended as a solution.
And so it, again, it just gives us
better direction in terms of what
are the keywords that we should
focus on writing more content around.
So, let me use this as an example.
Uh, I think to add on to what you're
saying, the other way you can use
Traqer.ai is when to, to solve this
problem of like, well, I don't know
the full context of the conversation.
You can also add multiple keywords that
talk about different aspects that you
think your brand is strong for, that,
that that could come up in a natural
conversation, where it could be mentioned.
So Fusion Academy is one of our
clients that Benji's showing right now.
And as you can tell by the keywords
in there, they are a private school.
Um, and they have all these
benefits for, um, students that
are struggling in different ways.
So you saw remedial math.
I think there were other, if you go
back to like the, the keyword list.
Twice exceptional students.
Yeah.
There's gonna be exceptional
students, which is the kind of
the opposite of remedial math.
You see, alternative schools are on there.
Dyslexia, private schools.
So if you scroll up, up a little bit.
Yeah.
Number 18, best private
schools in Illinois.
So this would be a perfect example of
how to use Traqer.ai in a situation
where you don't know the full context
of the conversation, but you are
saying, Hey, we want to show up for
best private school in Illinois.
Um, in there, it's not mentioning us.
So it's not mentioning fusion.
So you say, okay, so just for that
keyword, it's not, but you can say, well,
what if people are having a conversation
and they're, and they're in Illinois,
or they mentioned the chat, BTA parent
mentions the chat BT, that where they
live and it mentions Illinois and
they're looking for private schools.
But what if the parent
gives other context?
So if we go back to the full
keyword list for fusion for a
second, you can put in best private
school at Illinois, it says zero.
So you're not mentioned.
Then you could add on additional
keywords like best private school,
Illinois for remedial math for students
with dyslexia, for this and that.
And as you start adding these on,
you can say, Hey, this one lit
up green, that one lit up green.
So as a brand and as a marketing team,
you can have a discussion and say, notice.
That every time for all of
these different locations.
Chachi PT does mention us when we
mention, you know, dyslexia like stuff
or sensory processing disorder or
math or gifted children or whatever.
And then you can say, okay, so
Chachi PT is giving us love there.
We're strong on that aspect, but
just on the general sense of best
private schools in this state or
that state, we're not as strong.
And so you kind of can start
to guide, as Benji said.
Where you need to produce content that
LLMs need to digest, you know, and say,
oh, in these topic areas, we're getting
no love from LLMs, so we need to be
producing content out in the world for
LLMs to ingest in order to like mention
us or associate us with those topics.
That's how I would use
Traqer.ai in that respect.
Yeah, completely agree.
I don't know if we have
that much to cover.
Other than this, the, the
product is a work in progress.
It's live right now.
Uh, we're continually.
Uh, making improvements on it.
We're using it all the time
ourselves and, and noticing little
improvements that we need to make.
And so, yeah, if, if you're
interested in using it, feel
free to sign up for an account.
Feel free to email us with feedback
or feature requests or things
that you notice that are not
accurate or anything like that.
But yeah, it's, it's exciting there.
There's not a lot of stuff to help
us track stuff in AI yet, and so.
This is the best way that
we've found to do it so far.
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