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Carrie Huckeby, executive director of the Tennessee Broadband Association, joined the podcast to discuss the history of telecom cooperatives, broadband expansion across our state, and the importance of engaging the next generation to continue the legacy of cooperatives.
The BLC Connection Podcast is a fun and informative show from Ben Lomand Connect that answers your questions about the internet, Wi-Fi, home security and more, and brings you information on the stories and events in “Ben Lomand Country.” Bryan, Karen and Micah take you behind the scenes of Ben Lomand Connect, where the cooperative connects Middle Tennessee with the latest in communications technology and with businesses that are making a difference in our service territory. The BLC Connection Podcast also offers tips for business marketing and residential/workplace technology.
Karen Wilson:
Welcome to the BLC Connection Podcast.
I'm Karen Wilson, your host for today.
Today's guest is Carrie Huckeby, director of the Tennessee
Broadband Association, to discuss the evolution of cooperatives
into broadband providers.
Welcome to the BLC Connection Podcast, Carrie.
Carrie Huckeby:
Thanks, Karen.
Thanks for asking.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah. All right.
Well, let's get started.
Right now, we're recording this in October, which is cooperative
month.
It'll probably air sometime end of October, first of November.
So, we kind of got started on this thought process because of
cooperative month.
But telecom cooperatives have evolved so much since most were
formed out of necessity during the rural
electrification years.
So what do you think was the catalyst in starting this evolution
from phone lines into fiber service?
Carrie Huckeby:
Well, I think all those years ago, 70 years or more, that knock
on the door from key community
leaders or concerned citizens, to ask residents to become a
member of a cooperative or to get a phone line.
That catalyst, I think, was about connectivity.
It was about safety, being able to stay connected with one
another.
You know, and this question reminded me, I got a phone call a
few weeks ago from a lady in a community here in Tennessee,
and she was asking me about getting broadband service.
She didn't have any, and she just had satellite.
And her question to me was, "Aren't we just as important out
here in the rural areas as the
people that live in the city and more populated towns?" And of
course, my answer was, "Well, of course you are." And I
think that 70 years or 80 years ago when they were going door to
door, they were saying, "Hey, you out here in the
country, as we call it, are just as important as everyone else."
So years later, you know, the technology has
evolved and now we're talking broadband.
But it's still the same thing.
The catalyst is still connectivity.
It's connectivity to education, health services, precision
agriculture, emergency services,
all those things that drive that connectivity.
So even though the innovation and the technology has changed and
our cooperative has changed, our companies have changed, that
catalyst is still about communication and connectivity, I
believe.
Karen Wilson:
Well, even in those days, you know, most people stayed close to
home.
But you also had families that were beginning to move away, move
to larger cities where jobs were more
prevalent. So they wanted to, I guess, talk to their families
that were in.
I remember, like in my grandparents day, lots of people moved to
Michigan because that's where the jobs were and stuff.
Well, you wanted to talk to your family.
And so a lot of these small rural farms did not have that
opportunity until the cooperatives were formed.
Carrie Huckeby:
Exactly. I can remember my aunt and uncle, James and Overlin,
that moved to Michigan.
And, you know, they didn't get to come home very often, but they
definitely wanted to keep up with their nieces and nephews and
their brothers and sisters to see how they were doing.
So the cooperatives and that getting that telephone line at that
time really played a role in
keeping families connected, as you said, when they were forced
to leave to get jobs somewhere else or they didn't want to stay
and work on the farm.
So that evolution and that progress and all that, just because
the world was moving and there were other
things to do, did not mean you still didn't need that
connectivity.
Karen Wilson:
Right. Sometimes I think we think we're the only generation that
has been moving and evolving.
But, you know, it started with our pioneer fathers and mothers.
Carrie Huckeby:
It did. It just looked a little different than it does today.
But it's the same thing.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah. So no doubt the availability of grants has sped up fiber
builds and deployment.
Do you feel these efforts will be sustained until every rural
Tennessean has fiber to the home?
Carrie Huckeby:
Well, there's no doubt the administrations, both federal and
state, are evaluating and counting the number of
homes and locations that do and do not have broadband service.
And they are allocating funds through multiple grant and loan
programs.
And that funding, you know, it's necessary.
We can't do it right now without it.
It's imperative that we have that to reach every location in our
state.
Now, whether that happens in five years or whether that happens
in ten years or longer, the fact is that there are
locations in our state that can cost hundreds of thousands of
dollars to reach.
One of our member company said a few weeks ago that it had caused
over $80,000 to reach one home in a remote
area. So, you know, without this funding, it's very difficult
for a company to afford, you know, to
build that, because if it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars,
you know, there's no way to justify a build like that sometimes
because it'll never be right side up on the balance sheet.
There's no rate of return for something like that.
And it's so important to connect as many Tennesseans as possible
while this funding is happening.
But the well will go dry at some point.
You know, it just will.
And we know that.
So that's why we are working as hard as we can.
The member companies are to get everybody connected.
But I think that if they haven't been able to reach everyone,
that they'll go back to the same principles that
they had before the grants and funding.
That they will examine every location, they'll examine every
community to see what's financially
feasible to get to.
And, you know, they'll do what, like I said, what they've always
done.
They'll keep trying to move in the right direction.
But it will slow things down.
And I think that companies will not be able to look at the
community next door and go into that
area as quickly as they will today with funding.
Karen Wilson:
That's true. Yeah, because that's what's, you know, in the
underserved areas where their current provider has chosen not to
build there, the grants are enabling others to go in and build.
But I could see that, that probably will slow down.
Carrie Huckeby:
Exactly. And it's like the lady I mentioned, her provider had
decided or was not coming into her area to build.
So she was looking for someone else that has the expertise and
the funding that will come in and do it.
So many of our members have 100% fiber networks in their own
cooperative territory, but now they're
taking that funding and their expertise, and they're going to
the community next door and providing it there.
So, you know, we hope the funding lasts a long time until every
Tennessean is connected.
And I definitely think our administrations are.
That's their goal, if all possible.
Karen Wilson:
Yes. It seems to be on their mind, and they talk about it so
frequently that you know it's a top priority for
them. So Tennessee recently had a visit from FCC Commissioner
Brendan Carr and Senator Marsha Blackburn with
a roundtable discussion with executives from independents and
cooperatives.
So it's, you know, we're always honored to have people like that
come give us a voice and to
see what our opinions are.
What was that discussion like?
How did that go?
Carrie Huckeby:
Well, like you said, we were very honored that they reached out
to, Senator Blackburn's office reached out to our government
affairs director, Lavoy Knowles, and said, "Hey, we're coming to
town.
We'd really like to sit down and have some discussion and get
your feedback.
And then you hear from us as well about what's going to happen
in the future, what's in the pipeline." So Commissioner Carr
started the day with DTC and he stopped in, was able to talk to
Chris Townson, the general manager.
But the more important part, he was able to go out into the
community and see the DTC employees putting up
fiber.
And he had never seen that before and really didn't know what
kind of work it takes and expertise it takes to make that
happen. So when he goes back to Washington and he's sitting at
the FCC conference table, you know, he will
have a much better, clearer picture of what it actually takes to
get broadband into these rural communities.
So he was able to do that and start the day.
Then we came together in Nashville there with Senator Blackburn,
and we were able to sit around the table and
when they had requested the meeting, they did ask for us to
bring together companies that were offering broadband,
but they were doing it with different technologies.
So fiber broadband, or they were using fixed wireless or they
might be using a cable modem.
So we were all sitting around the table there having the
discussion.
And that conversation included things like mapping, you know, the
accuracy of mapping, which is so
important when it comes to the grants, who gets the funding, who
is identified as underserved or served or not
served at all.
And, you know, it all comes from that mapping.
We talked about labor shortages because, as you know, there are
people retiring.
From Ben Lomand Connect and all these other cooperatives and
commercial companies that as that expertise
retires, you know, where is the succession plan?
Where do we find the labor force?
Where are these students being exposed to the disciplines that
we need to keep going?
So we talked about TCAT and college and high school courses.
We also talked about supply chain delays because that's a big
conversation.
I just returned from the KTA/TNBA Conference.
That's a big, that's a big discussion.
And when you have deadlines to complete a project in three years
or five years, if you're not getting fiber, you know,
four or five years or three years, or you're not getting a truck
for three years, you know, that can cause those delays in
completing those projects.
And so that was very important for our member companies to talk
to Senator Blackburn and the commissioner, FCC commissioner,
about that and say these are the things we're facing,
environmental studies, the delay sometimes that it
causes in a fiber build...
Karen Wilson:
Waiting on them to come and do the study.
Carrie Huckeby:
Yes, it's laying on someone's desk, and it lays there for a
while.
And, you know, then it delays a project 12 months.
And so those were all things that were discussed around the
table.
And, you know, I've said this many times that even though the
FCC commissioner and our senator, legislators hold these
very important positions and, you know, vote on all things that
are imperative to our state, they
cannot be an expert on every single subject.
You know, they have to have these discussions in our member
companies and these
CEOs and these other people that are working in it every day to
enlighten one another.
You know, they have to have that to take back to Washington D.C.
to make those decisions and to have all the info they need.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah, I guess, you know, it's a proof of the grants and the money
being put to good use.
The employment, seeing the employees out there working in the
field, I'm sure is an awesome thing to see the
jobs that it's creating.
But then also like the domino effect, as you said, of employee
shortages and supply chain shortages and how that
affects everyone in that process.
Carrie Huckeby:
It does because it takes the workforce to get the supplies, you
know, make the supplies.
It takes us, you know, we have to order them and, you know,
they're manufactured and delivered.
But then also the expertise and experience you need from your
employees to work in everything from accounting, you know,
because you're doing the auditing and the reporting back to the
government on the grants that you're using it
properly. There's no misconduct or mishandling of that funding.
It's going exactly where it needs to be.
So you've got all these employees marketing, communications and
all these employees that are needed working
in this field. So where do you find them?
You know, where are they being trained?
Where are they hearing about the careers that are available in
telecom?
And so our legislators are just as concerned about that as we
are, and they're here to help us
find ways to develop programs to train those people.
You know how far back in school do we talk about STEM and
technology.
So it was a really good roundtable discussion.
It was an over an hour, hour and 15 minutes.
And again, we were thrilled that they were giving us that amount
of time.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah, that's good because, you know, thinking about kids and very
few kids like, take their time to say
or give that thought process of like, I want to work in telecom,
you know.
But we want to be there, and I'm surprised and that's great that
that went back as far as even education
of our children in these rural schools.
Carrie Huckeby:
Yeah, it all fits together.
I mean, it's one great big puzzle.
And then we started this conversation about cooperatives.
And I think that's part of it, too, that we have roles here of
talking about the disciplines that are
available and what a cooperative is.
Why would you want to work for a cooperative?
So kind of falling back on that.
But lots of great discussion.
So we were really glad that happened.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah. Yeah. Always good to have a face in front of those
affecting decisions on the national and state
level. So as someone who's had a successful career in the
telecom industry, what is the greatest source of pride amongst
cooperatives in Tennessee?
Carrie Huckeby:
Well, I thought about this a little bit.
And again, I think we talked about the catalyst of connectivity.
I think the pride you know, I don't think the source of pride
has changed much.
I would think the same thing that drove the knock on the door to
sign people up for phone service, drives cooperative boards and
employees today.
You know, that willingness to serve, to innovate, to educate, to
inform, to be a great corporate citizen, to be
socially responsible, just show up every day to ensure that
their cooperative stays strong
and their community is supported.
And for each cooperative that I worked for, I knew we played a
role in the welfare and
the success of our community.
And I think it's that pride.
I know it was that pride that drove me while I was working in
telecom.
And but I think it's that pride that drives employees to show up
every day.
You know, we laugh and say, of course, a paycheck is important,
but you've got to have some reason that you put your feet on the
floor every morning, and you get dressed, and you go to work.
So I think it's really that seventh cooperative principle that
it's concern for community.
And I think that pride of helping everyone in the community and
being a part, you know, just
being there for support is what that pride is.
You know, I think everybody's proud of that.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah. And, you know, I hear installers and customer service
people when they help
someone and that customer comes to them and says, thank you for
connecting or helping me with my Internet or
anything. My phone line was down, something like that.
They are, the customer, is so appreciative.
Most of them are.
And then the employee gets the gratification of thinking.
I made a difference in that person's day, week, month, how their
life is exactly.
Carrie Huckeby:
Because you don't know what's going on in their life.
I mean, you know, they need a phone call.
They need to call a doctor.
They need to check on their kids.
They need whatever.
So, you know, they need to do a college course and get an exam
in.
So when you're improving and enriching their quality of life,
you know, that's just the pat on the back that you need to make
You go to work every day.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah, that's true.
Paycheck is nice, but...
Carrie Huckeby:
Paycheck pays the bills, but...
Karen Wilson:
That's right. But there is something to be said about making a
difference and the motivation to do that.
Carrie Huckeby:
Exactly.
Karen Wilson:
So do you see other future evolutions of the telecom cooperative
model coming, or what do you think about that?
Carrie Huckeby:
You know, I think the primary purpose of a cooperative, and we've
talked about the principles a little bit, is that it's there to
serve the community in which it operates, where it operates.
And since co-ops are not-for-profit enterprises, you know, the
profit goes to fulfilling the
social and economic and cultural needs of the community.
And, you know, when a co-op does well, it benefits the
community.
And the cooperative model or the core values are based on those
seven principles: voluntary and member
control, democratic member controlled, economic participation,
autonomy and independence, education and
information, and cooperation among other cooperatives.
And, you know, like we said, number seven, concern for
community.
It's a good model now.
And personally, I can't visualize that the telecom model
changing or evolving to look
differently than it does today.
It works. There's farmers co-ops.
There's small flower co-ops.
There's.
Karen Wilson:
Food co-ops.
Carrie Huckeby:
Food co-ops. And the electric co-ops.
And it's still working and cooperatives are still being formed
today.
So I think about this question, I think it's not broke.
Why try to fix it?
So I could totally be wrong, but I just think the cooperative
model works so.
Karen Wilson:
Well, it seems like society has a renewed appreciation of
cooperatives.
You are seeing our young people participate in more, like we
said, food cooperatives and things like that, and they're
thinking more about it.
And when they think about those things, it makes them think
about their providers, their telecom service.
And so I think we're going to see a resurgence in that
appreciation of the cooperative model.
Carrie Huckeby:
Well, it's their company, you know, their members, they're
stockholders in that company.
So they have a vote, you know, they can choose their board of
directors, and they can help
direct the company as they see fit and, you know, be informed.
And so, you know, that's a model that works well in smaller
communities, too.
And and then I think also they, in our communities, we see the
cooperatives are able to put that sign in
the ballpark, and they're able to do a scholarship, and they're
able to touch a whole lot of lives in
ways that...
Karen Wilson:
They give back because they're supported by the community.
Carrie Huckeby:
That's exactly right. They give back, and they play an important
role.
So hopefully younger people are seeing the benefits of that and
understand what a cooperative is.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah, well, with it being cooperative month, we will encourage
everybody to come to their annual meetings of their cooperatives
in their area. You know, take an interest and participate in the
democratic voting of their board members and things like that,
because that's how you have a say in what happens in your
cooperative.
Carrie Huckeby:
Yeah, and I totally agree.
And I'm really, and I meant to say this, that I'm really happy
that we still celebrate cooperatives in October, that that month
is dedicated to it because I think it does give us an
opportunity to have these discussions and remind everyone what a
cooperative is and the importance of them.
Karen Wilson:
Right. So what do you think those who started the telecom
cooperatives would think of their current legacy?
Carrie Huckeby:
Well, I've worked, like I said, in cooperatives throughout my
career with them and for them and still working for them and
commercial companies.
And I thought about those people that went house to house and
talked about the benefits of having a telephone
connection and starting a cooperative.
And I don't think they were looking too far into the future at
that time or imagining all the things that would
evolve after they knocked on that door.
You know, they didn't see four party lines changing into two
party or then change into private phone lines.
Or the addition of, you know, features like call waiting and
caller ID.
You and I worked together.
You remember how exciting caller ID was and voice mail.
Karen Wilson:
You beeped over, and there was another person I know.
Carrie Huckeby:
Right? I know. Conference calling.
Yeah, you could do that.
And then there was voice mail.
You either loved it, or you hated it.
And then came along the internet.
So they just wanted the connectivity and to take care of their
community.
But I can't imagine any of those people would be unhappy with
the direction their
cooperative or the evolution of the phone line to fiber
broadband.
I can't imagine.
I mean, you and I certainly would not be sitting here and
talking about this evolution if they had not knocked
on those doors and built that foundation and started with an
idea.
Now, granted, they might not be too crazy about social media and
how we use that connectivity, but the fact is that
they, you know, they kicked it off.
And we are here today with a vision to continue to connect rural
communities with
broadband. So, you know, they started a whole lot.
And so I can't imagine they would be unhappy with the
connectivity or the legacy that came out of
that single knock on someone's door.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah. Who would have thought, you know, 75, 84, some getting
close to maybe 100 years, that the
cooperative that they started is still thriving.
It hasn't had to sell out to another company, and they're just
still in that connectivity, just in a different
way.
Carrie Huckeby:
Exactly. So you almost wish you were around then to knock on that
door and make that first connection and talk people into being a
part of the cooperative.
But of course, we still do that today in some way, knocking on
doors and say, you know, how would you like broadband service?
Karen Wilson:
Yeah, I know we've struggled with thinking about that.
You know, door knocking is something that people don't do, but
it's another touch to the customer.
Hey, a reminder that we're here.
We're always soft sellers and not somebody that's forcing you to
take anything like that.
But it's a good connection with the customer.
Carrie Huckeby:
I definitely agree.
So I think it's an outstanding legacy that they started many
years ago.
Karen Wilson:
I agree. Lots of good things came from that.
Think of all the people that have been employed by cooperatives
in our rural areas, the families that have been raised because of
the jobs and cooperatives and then all the connectivity that has
come from it.
It's a great source of pride, I would think.
Carrie Huckeby:
I think so, too. I mean, I've been retired a little while, but I
still carry that little cooperative pride and telecom pride and
all that around with me.
Karen Wilson:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you.
Carrie Huckeby, the director of the Tennessee Broadband
Association, for joining us on the BLC Connection Podcast.
Great to have you come join us today.
Carrie Huckeby:
Thanks, Karen. Thanks for asking.
Karen Wilson:
We invite our listeners to tune in for future episodes and share
this content with other businesses.
Until next time, this is your BLC Connection.