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When it comes to sports, physical ability is only part of the equation for high performance. Mental health is equally important, if not more so. On this episode, Deloitte chief well-being officer Jen Fisher talks with Dr. Nyaka NiiLampti, Vice President of Wellness and Clinical Services at the NFL. She’s a licensed psychologist with more than fifteen years of clinical experience with organizations, sports teams, individuals, and families.
The WorkWell Podcast™ is back and I am so excited about the inspiring guests we have lined up. Wellbeing at work is the issue of our time. This podcast is your lens into what the experts are seeing, thinking, and doing.
Hi, I am Jen Fisher, host, bestselling author and influential speaker in the corporate wellbeing movement and the first-ever Chief Wellbeing Officer in the professional services industry. On this show, I sit down with inspiring individuals for wide-ranging conversations on all things wellbeing at work. Wellbeing is the future of work. This podcast will help you as an individual, but also support you in being part of the movement for change in your own organizations and communities. Wellbeing can be the outcome of work well designed. And we all have a role to play in this critical transformation!
This podcast provides general information and discussions about health and wellness. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. The podcast owner, producer and any sponsors are not liable for any health-related claims or decisions made based on the information presented or discussed.
Mental Health in Sports with Dr. Nyaka NiiLampti
Jen Fisher (Jen): Hi WorkWell listeners. I’m really excited to share that my book ‘Work Better Together’ is officially out. Conversations with WorkWell guests and feedback from listeners like you inspired this book. It’s all about how to create a more human-centered workplace. As we return to the office for many of us, this book can help you move forward with strategies and tools to strengthen your relationships and focus on your well-being. It’s available on Amazon or your favorite book retail.
I played collegiate soccer when I attended the University of Miami. I loved it and I learned so much from that experience. One of the biggest lessons I learned was that when it comes to sports or any high-performance culture, our physical ability is only part of the equation. Mental health in sports is equally as important, but much less talked about and even less trained for. To perform at their best, athletes need to have a strong body and a strong mind, but that can be difficult when athletes face many unique mental health challenges.
This is the WorkWell podcast series. Hi, I’m Jen Fischer, chief well-being officer for Deloitte, and I’m so pleased to be here with you today to talk about all things well-being. I’m here with Dr. Nyaka NiiLampti. She’s a licensed psychologist with more than 15 years of clinical experience with organizations, sports teams, individuals, and families. Dr. Nyaka currently serves as the vice president of Wellness and Clinical Services at the NFL. Well, Dr. Nyaka, thank you for joining us on the show today.
Dr. Nyaka NiiLampti (Dr. Nyaka): Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to have this conversation.
Jen: Yeah, me too. Let’s get started. Give us the lay of the land. Let us get to know you and how you got where you are.
Dr. Nyaka: Wow, that’s an interesting conversation.
Jen: Loaded question.
Dr. Nyaka: It’s funny. I actually just told this story a little earlier today. I actually started out as an engineer. I was an engineer, but I was also an athlete and ran track in college. My
senior thesis was a sports psychology-related thesis. I had always been curious about the impacts of sports and how it helped shape personality. My first job out of college, I worked with a nonprofit that supported the social development of kids of color who were transitioning from public schools in New York to private schools and really helping them to explore themselves from that social construct. What I found was for a lot of the young people that I worked with, going to their games and then going to a meal after was a really good way to connect and really using that sport space as a way of building relationships. On that job, I also worked a lot with boys. I ended up getting all the boys schools early in my career. I started working with predominantly young men of color and it’s been interesting. That has been my career trajectory. I spent a lot of my early career working in college counseling centers where, because I got a sports psych background, I was able to work with not just the general student population, but also the student athletes. I then spent some time teaching and in private practice. I have always been very passionate about helping people to explore mental health, the entire continuum of mental health, not necessarily just looking at mental illness and diagnosable disorders, but really helping people think about how can life be better, not just mental health, but then also looking at it primarily among populations that don’t necessarily always think about things from that angle, from that mental health perspective. Whether it’s populations of color; men, primarily working with men. It’s an area that I realized I’ve been passionate about my entire career. I feel fortunate to have landed where I currently am.
Jen: They’re fortunate to have you. Let’s talk about mental health and why it’s so important for athletes, how it impacts performance, how it shows up. As a collegiate athlete myself, I feel like it was something that was never really talked about. It certainly wasn’t something we trained for in the same way that we trained our physical abilities. Can you talk about why it’s important for athletes, how it impacts performance, and really what that’s starting to look like in sports more and more?
Dr. Nyaka: It’s interesting having been in this space for so long. I’ve actually said to some people that the growth that we’ve had in terms of having this conversation in a wider audiences. The growth that we’ve had over the last three or four or five years has actually been lightning speed almost. Again, I’ve been in this space for 20-25 years and the fact that we are now talking about this publicly in such a large forum and so many people are talking about it I think is something that I would not have expected five years ago. While I think for some people there’s a sense of finally, I think it has been actually happening pretty quickly. There’s a couple of things I think. One, thinking about mental health again as existing on this continuum, from one end where we’re looking at thriving, being our best selves, and on the other end of the continuum that mental health crisis or really struggling. What I like to remind folks is that we all have mental health. Mental health is just like physical health. It’s something that we all have. Depending on the day, we may be at different points on that continuum. I think historically in the world of sport, what we have done is we have equated mental health and mental illness. We said, ‘Okay, if someone is talking about their mental health, they’re saying that they have a problem and we put that behind closed doors.’ What we’ve seen more and more recently is this widespread recognition that mental health is a part of all of us and to this idea that if we are intentional and focusing on all of our muscles, our physical muscles and mental muscles, we perform better. It’s almost when we think about it in that context, it’s almost a no brainer. Again, historically in sport, we have
focused on this physical development and sometimes almost to the detriment or at a cost of our mental wellness and to pretend that that part of an individual doesn’t exist, I think does more of a disservice than anything else. It is really this idea of how can we bring our full selves to what we do. Our heads come with us. In the world of sport, one of the examples I tend to use particularly with rookies is this idea that, and I’m sure that it’s even the same in the world of business, the higher level of performance, the mental matters more than the physical. The example that I use with rookies a lot is if you look at the starting line of the 100-meter dash in the Olympics where physically everyone is at the top and the difference between first place and last place is seconds, hundredths of seconds, but the person who is the one who preservers, who crosses the finish line first is really the one who is mentally stronger in that minute, not to get overwhelmed by the crowd or the fearful starting. We spend so much time working on our physical development, especially at those higher levels of performance, why would we not think about spending some time on our mental development?
Jen: What are some examples of things that you do with athletes to help them develop mentally?
Dr. Nyaka: I think it’s the range. In my role, I work a lot with the team clinician. Each team has a team clinician on site, and they provide anything from traditional counseling to education programs, but I think there’s quite a range. Part of it is helping everyone to develop some level of mental health literacy. Helping them to understand the role that their mental health plays. There’s that self-awareness piece. Even just starting with like, how do you deal with stress? Let’s help you become aware of that. That way, you have some control over managing it when you find yourself in stressful situations. How do we think about relationships and healthy relationships and relationships that might not necessarily be as healthy? How do we set boundaries? All of those things I think fall under that mental health umbrella, and those are all things that that we work with players around or staff, anyone around. Then, when I was in private practice, very much the same thing. How do you teach the tools that someone can then employ on their own to function better in their lives, not just on the field or in the swimming pool or on the court, but also in their relationships in their families, in schools? It’s the same. It’s literally teaching the same skill set.
Jen: I tend to say what happens at home happens at work and what happens at work happens at home.
Dr. Nyaka: Absolutely.
Jen: We try to pretend we can separate those things, but we really can’t.
Dr. Nyaka: Absolutely. You see relationship dynamics play out and all of those things, I’m sure you can attest to that.
Jen: Let’s talk about what are some of the unique challenges that athletes or specifically football players experience when it comes to their mental health?
Dr. Nyaka: Again, it’s a range. I think there is this perspective, sometimes externally, that, ‘Okay, these superstar athletes who are making all this money, what do they have to be stressed about or worried about?’ Sport is a microcosm of society. The things that we see in general publicly, you’re going to see on sports teams. There’s certainly the day-to-day stressors. If we think about last year in COVID, family dynamics and loss and grief, you’ve got some of those things, but then there’s also the added pressure of one of the things, especially with the young players, rookies, I would let them know as a 22 year old, you aren’t allowed to make the same mistakes as other 22 year olds make, because you live your life under a spotlight. There’s going to be some pieces there of the pressure or the stress. I think about how social media plays a role for athletes. Now, we’re in a time where the public has an ability to contact you directly. When you think about players who might make a mistake on the court or on the field and become sort of vilified through social media or sports center highlights and those kinds of things. I think that there a piece about navigating relationships. When I was in private practice, I would tell some of the players that I work with them as a group collectively. They were some of the most isolated individuals I had worked with because it’s hard to figure out why someone connected to me, making sure that those relationships are genuine, so that navigating those relationships and navigating boundaries. I think what becomes interesting too for NFL players is I think that there is something around the fact that their faces aren’t visible. There is this disconnection. I let folks know sometimes you can walk past the player on the street and not miss, unless they’re marquee player. You wouldn’t necessarily know that they play in the NFL. There is this tendency to almost dehumanize them because if you don’t see their faces, then we don’t necessarily see them as humans like us. There is sometimes this tendency even you think about the press and some of the media about how they describe or talk about players. You’ve got a lot of those pressures. Then it’s a sport where, I think sports in general, there are no guarantees. I like to say this is one of the worlds where you could have a great season and not necessarily have a job the next year. There’s a lot of uncertainty that also goes into it. We’ll see the same challenges with this group as we will see with any other group, but I think that there are some unique features around the sports space that make their experience a little different.
Jen: You’ve talked about this a little bit, but just specific stereotypes that follow athletes around and negatively impact their mental health. That’s a rhetorical question in a way, but can you talk a little bit about that because I feel like any kind of negative stereotype would probably affect your mental health, but how do you help them deal with that?
Dr. Nyaka: It’s a challenge. How does the world interact with me? Do they interact with me based on who I am and what they see or do they interact with me based on these preconceived notions that they might have of me, whether they’re positive or negative? I think that there’s also this we talk about and you can speak to this the high-performance culture. I think that there are some stereotypes that we have to navigate just in that high- performance, high-pressure culture, but then you’ve got a sport like football, which is also hypermasculine. You’ve got some of the stereotypes that go along with that. I think that there are lots of stereotypes that the players are constantly trying to navigate, and then how do you make the decision around where do I invest my mental energy? We encourage this idea of how do you control which you can control, control the controllables, but it can
also be a challenge, particularly when we think about 22, 23, 24 year olds. It’s also a challenge to be able to let some of the stuff that you can’t control go.
Jen: They’re human too.
Dr. Nyaka: I know. That’s exactly, Again when we think about it from the context of stress and pressure, there’s just a lot to have to navigate. This is interesting. I’ve heard and I’ve seen some of this in the media more. We’re getting more guys who are coming in who are saying, ‘You made the intentional decision to get off of social media because I started to recognize that it was having a negative impact on my mental health. How can I figure out how to create a space where I am not exerting so much emotional energy in managing some of these things?’
Jen: Do you think that and maybe this has changed and we talked about the progression over the last four to five years. Do you feel like the mental health stigma is worse in the sports industry? I mean, we’ve obviously seen a lot of the recent news that’s come out across the sports industry related to mental health and some of it’s really positive and some of it’s not. Do you think that the stigma is worse than it is in broader society? Do you think it’s the same? I know you’ve mentioned it’s kind of a microcosm. Is it just different challenges perhaps?
Dr. Nyaka: I think there are different challenges and I think that depending on the sport, you also might see varying degrees of stigma. One of the things I remind folks of that when we think about stigma around mental health, particularly as it relates to the NFL, there’s an intersection or accumulation of factors that contribute to that. Whether it’s around race. You think about a sport that’s primarily black men and you think about some of the stigma that associates with mental health within African American community, and then you think about high-performance world, there’s the stigma that happens around mental health in that space and then you think about the stigma that happens in any space that’s hypermasculine.
Jen: They’re all compounded.
Dr. Nyaka: Exactly. That’s exactly it. I think that there is this interaction effect that you end up getting. I wouldn’t necessarily say that it’s greater in sports than it is in anything else. I think you just happen to have a combination of factors that are coming together when we think about the world of sport, plus then this idea to that work culture that has again dehumanized our athletes. We put them on this pedestal and we say, ‘Hey, this this person is superhuman.’ I think that that then also contributes to some of that stigma.
Jen: When you’re working with the athletes, the players, how do you teach them the difference between good stress and bad stress? I mean, as athletes, obviously they perform well under certain types of stress, but too much stress of any kind or chronic stress can become bad stress. What do they do to modulate and oscillate this stress and pressure that they’re really, truly constantly under? I think some of it probably causes them to perform well and others not so well. How do they differentiate between what’s truly good and what’s bad?
Dr. Nyaka: I probably say it’s probably the same in the business space. I think we all have a different sort of optimal stress level. In the sports world, we talk about that performance, that arousals, inverted U. for all of us, what is our optimal level is different. I do think that there are some people who enjoy a higher-level adrenaline rush and those kinds of things than others. I think the work that we’ve been able to do is educating players around that to be able to say, ‘Okay, not all stresses is bad stress. Stress is literally anything that causes a reaction, whether it’s brain or body, it’s something that requires us to respond and that could be the result of great things that happened, that can be the result of difficult things, eustress versus distress.’ I think the first piece is really educating them and helping them to understand that and then understand themselves in a way where they can say, ‘Okay, when I do feel distressed, how do I cope with it and when I do feel eustressed, when good things happen, but they still require a change, how can I cope with that?’ What we help them to really understand is that while we don’t want you to say avoid stress, but also know that too much stress over time poorly managed can lead to a whole host of issues, whether it’s for decision-making or actually result in diagnosable mental health concerns. I think the first piece is just really helping to educate them around it and then that self-awareness piece helping them to learn and then helping them to develop that toolbox, I would like to say.
What’s in your stress management toolbox, whether that’s asking for help or listening to music? I need you to have a pretty well-developed toolbox so that you know that you can go in and pick something up when you’re in one of those moments so that that self- awareness is to say, ‘Okay, what are the things that stress me? What’s my tell? Is it do I get emotional, do I isolate, is it difficult for me to concentrate, what’s my tell? How do I know and then what are the things that I know I can do that are going to be healthy ways of managing it?’ What’s been cool to see is you’re getting more and more players who are coming in who already have some awareness of it because they’re more and more collegiate athletic programs that have mental health professionals that are embedded in them. Players are coming into the league already having had some introduction to mental health or some mental health literacy, which I think helps, but it’s the same thing that we would teach anyone really around how do you develop that awareness and those stress management skills. It’s just knowing that for this population they’re going to have to employ them in different settings or different contexts.
Jen: You mentioned isolation before, in particular football players, NFL players. It can potentially be more of an isolating sport. I guess as I reflect over the global pandemic and the last 15 months, all of us have probably had some experience of isolation and the impact that it can have on our mental health. Can you talk a little bit more about that, either just broadly or in the context of the players in the NFL and potentially some strategies and how all of us can deal a little bit better with the isolation that we might be feeling?
Dr. Nyaka: I think it’s a great question. It’s interesting I think as we reflect on this last year while it was. It has definitely been challenging, and we’ve seen a lot of things come out. I think one of the things that it has done is it normalized the need for all of us to prioritize our mental health. I think what it has done is it has bought this conversation a little bit more in the forefront. Even the most psychologically healthy of us had struggled, had some challenges over this last 15-16 months. I think what the pandemic has done is it has given us permission to say, ‘Okay, how do I prioritize my mental health?’ The isolation piece I think where we saw a lot of the challenges for players last year was for a number of
the players they chose to live separate from their families because they were going to work every single day and exposing themselves. Whereas in the past, they would have been able to go home to wives or significant others and to their kids. They chose to live separately so that they could have a safer season. I think a number of the clinicians talked a little bit about the cost that they had for a lot of the players in terms of again that isolation and that loneliness. It is one of those things where again we saw that across the country, or across the world to be honest, but I think what it also has done is it has encouraged people to be more intentional reaching out and connecting. You saw some folks who had weekly zoom calls with their extended families. Whereas in the past, they only saw each other every couple of years. Here was an opportunity to really connect on a more consistent basis. What saw was again players being much more intentional in terms of connecting with each other as well, making sure that they provided some of that support. When we think about mental health and some of the things that we need to do to prioritize, I like to remind folks that it’s not supersexy and it’s not supercomplex, some of the basics, eating and sleeping and exercising, making sure that we get social connection, but the trick is making sure that we prioritize it and are intentional and inserting it because I think it’s easy to forget about those things and consider them optional, though those are the things that are our life blood.
Jen: Yeah, absolutely and not too terribly different in the business world. We tend to prioritize everything and everyone else over our own self-care. I find myself talking about the very same things quite a bit. Let’s talk about the players a little bit and how you’ve seen. I mean, are they receptive to counseling and treatment if they’re struggling? Has that changed over the years? Has it become more acceptable? If someone isn’t open to treatment or help and they really need it, how do you get them there? What kind of conversations can we have with people?
Dr. Nyaka: It’s a great question. There are a couple of things. There’s a couple different ways I would answer that. I think that players are certainly becoming more open to the idea of working with someone who’s going to help them strengthen their mind. You’ve got some who will say things like, again I see it like a strengthening and conditioning coach or nutrition. It’s something that I can do that’s going to make me better. We like to say, if you can come in when things are good, we’re looking at really performance enhancement. I think historically we typically look at emphasizing our mental health when it’s a crisis versus you being proactive. In 2019, the NFL and the Players Association implemented a behavioral health agreement that requires there to be a team clinician at every club and they’ve got to be there a certain number of hours. We’ve got a few clubs that actually have a full-time person. Part of that is exactly for that reason so that it is someone who is completely integrated into the culture and just an additional resource. Just like our strengthening and conditioning coach, just like our dietitian or nutritionist, this is an additional resource. It is not someone who I need to see just when there is a crisis. It’s someone that I know is here to help me be my best self. I think there’s an increased recognition and acceptance of that. At the same time, I think that there’s also much more willingness to talk about mental health experiences and share mental health stories. I think that the more that we can do that in a way that’s healthy to the person who’s sharing their story, I think that this is a space where dialogue in a healthy and safe way helps to decrease stigma and helps to make sure that other people are looking for the resources and using the resources. I think from a societal perspective where we’ll probably have more of a challenge is making sure that
access to those resources is equal and the quality of those resources is equal. In this space, I think you are seeing more and more players who are recognizing the value of that resource and are saying, ‘Hey again, this is just another tool. It’s going to help me get better. Let me make sure that I use it.’ When we think about folks who might struggle with asking for help or using some of the resources, I think that’s where we see the value of making sure that everyone has some mental health literacy because it’s really going to be the person who has the relationship is going to be the person who can really encourage someone to get help, and that might not necessarily be a mental health professional. That might be someone else. That might be a peer. Making sure that we are also sharing education and information and knowledge with everyone in the space, then they can recognize the signs and symptoms in each other and pull someone aside and say, ‘Hey, I’m worried about you. I’m concerned. Let’s go together to see if we can get some support or some resources.’ I think we’ll see the same parallels again in the larger world. How do we make sure that everyone has some working knowledge so they can think about themselves and know when they’re off, but then they can also recognize some of those things in other people and convene a support system around them?
Jen: As I think about leaders in the business world or really in any organizations, do the coaches receive a higher-level training or more specific training so that they can look for signs that a player might be struggling or is it everybody has access across the board?
Dr. Nyaka: What we’re really working to create is a world where everyone has access. I think that coaches aren’t exempt from being on that mental health continuum.
Jen: Neither leaders.
Dr. Nyaka: Exactly. To be honest, in some ways they might be less healthy. Again, we’ve got the range. We’ve got some clubs where the coaches recognize that we do have additional resources for coaches so that they can make sure that they make use of those resources, but when we talk about the education and the literacy piece, it’s really something that it’s required for the entire organization. This is not just, ‘Hey, we’re here to fix players and we’re making sure everyone has education.’ It’s really making sure that everyone has some working knowledge and making sure that everyone has access to the resources, because what we know is the healthier the leadership is, the healthier the organization is.
There is a trickledown effect.
Jen: That’s awesome. I have a couple of more questions and this is pulling on some of your prior experience, but for parents who have kids that are very involved in sports, is there a specific advice that you would give them in terms of helping their kids to protect and train their mental health?
Dr. Nyaka: I would say a couple of things. I think again, I am a fan of everyone having mental health literacy, parents, kids because again, young people when they’re struggling with mental health concerns, they’re more likely to share it with a peer than they are with an adult. The more that we equip them with some of that knowledge as well developmentally appropriate, I think that’s really important. We’re seeing more and more school systems that are integrating mental health curriculums into middle school and high school. Again, I think it’s important that everyone has that knowledge. I think when you’re
working with athletes or parents of athletes, there are a couple of things. One is helping young people to understand that just like we need to develop physically, you have to do the same thing mentally, not ignoring that part of the process and the experience of sports. The other piece, and this is something for parents, is also making sure that you are helping young athletes develop multiple aspects of their identity. I say that because I think what we see too often is young people who get this, they latch onto this athlete identity as young people and then that’s how everyone in the world interacts with them and that’s the only aspect of their identity that gets developed. Then, when something happens where they may have to shift that identity or they make it to the NFL and they have a 10-year career and then still have to shift post career, that’s a struggle, which has a lot of mental health implications. One of the things I really encourage parents to do is make sure that you’re talking about things other than sports with your young athletes, that you’re not helping them to look at sports from a zero-sum perspective, being able to say, ‘Okay, what went well and what’s an area of growth’ versus ‘Hey, you’re great or you’re terrible.’ I’m really helping them to explore that, but I think that identity development piece is really, really, really important.
Jen: That’s really powerful, something in my world that we think about in terms of retirement, but retirement is much later in life, but we still see that, especially somebody that has been in a single career for a very long time and then they move on and retire and they’ve defined that themselves that way for their whole life and what do they do.
Dr. Nyaka: Then you see postretirement, their health just drops.
Jen: Absolutely, physical and mental health.
Dr. Nyaka: Absolutely. They’ve lost their sense of purpose. I think, particularly for young people, really helping them to explore other aspects of who they are I think is so important.
Jen: For all of us.
Dr. Nyaka: For all of us. Don’t get so locked into one role because we are all multiple people. I mean we all have multiple identities. I think that that’s something that I worked a lot when I was in private practice, a lot with parents around. You don’t get to ask how the game went or ask how it went, but I may need you not to be the loudest person in the room or on the field because I think sometimes I’ve worked with a number of young athletes who have had some negative mental health outcomes because of the parental pressure to be this thing. That’s a great question.
Jen: One last question. How do you personally take care of your mental health? What are your go-to strategies?
Dr. Nyaka: That’s a great question on this languishing Wednesday.
Jen: Yes, I guess. Exactly.
Dr. Nyaka: This is actually something that I’ve had to expand as I’ve gotten older. I was an athlete, and for me, exercise is certainly an outlet. There is something cathartic for me about going out and pounding the pavement for a run. I mean that’s something that is
really important and making sure that I am being intentional in getting that in. It makes a difference and I can tell the difference in terms of how I interact with other people, whether or not I’ve exercised consistently. I’ve got a couple of really good friends who I can pick up the phone and say, ‘Okay, here’s what’s going on. Talk me down.’ Either they can help me shift my perspective, they can make me allow to help me laugh at myself, or they can challenge me. That’s for me a good way to manage my stress because sometimes it’s very easy to get locked in and we only see things from an angle.
Jen: We take it all the way down the river to the worst-case scenario.
Dr. Nyaka: Absolutely. I’ve got friends that I can call and say, ‘Okay, I need you to talk me off the ledge because I know that I’m getting close.’ I think when I was younger, I was probably much more hesitant to use those lifelines. Right now, I’m like, ‘No, no, I need to send a text. I need to give a call. I need you to call me now.’ I think that that’s something that I’ve gotten better at as I’ve gotten older. I am also learning to focus on control what I can control pieces. Here are the things that are within my control. Then, I think one of the things that we tell guys is make sure you have your something that is a go to if you’ve got two minutes and you need to calm down or if you’ve got two hours. I am one of those people who will, if I’m wedging, I will watch Law & Order reruns. That is sometimes I go to. The other thing that I think from me prayer is certainly…
Jen: What about sleep?
Dr. Nyaka: Actually, that’s what I think I was actually getting ready to say. Here is one of the things that, as I have gotten older, I am starting to really make sure that I am prioritizing is that sleep piece because I think I tell rookies all the time like, ‘Yeah, you guys think sleep is optional?’ Then, there’s these looks that they give each other. Part of it is like, ‘I’ve been there. I completely get it,’ but that is something that I am working and this is a constant challenge for me is to make sure that I am prioritizing my sleep. I am short tempered. I tell people if I haven’t slept. I walk into the office and there people, I intentionally avoid because this is not going to be good.
Jen: My team intentionally avoids me when they know I haven’t slept. They’ve learned the hard way.
Dr. Nyaka: That is awesome. That is fantastic. The more that I’ve read about just really the importance of sleep, I think it is something that as I get older I am starting to…
Jen: It’s the foundation for everything pretty much.
Dr. Nyaka: Absolutely and no question, no question. I find it fascinating how we really have become this culture that has started to think about sleep as this optional thing. We don’t take vacations and we don’t sleep.
Jen: We got to change that. We’re working on it.
Dr. Nyaka: Absolutely. One person at a time.
Jen: It has been awesome to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for your wisdom, for your advice. I know that there’s so much that I took away from this conversation, and I know that our listeners will too. I appreciate your time and your openness and your vulnerability.
Dr. Nyaka: I am so appreciative of the opportunity. I really, really am. I’ll talk about this stuff all day. I love the fact that you guys are doing this. This is fantastic.
Jen: I am so grateful Dr. Nyaka could be with us today to talk about mental health in sports.
Thank you to our producers, Rivet360, and our listeners. You can find the WorkWell podcast series on deloitte.com or you can visit various podcatchers using the keyword ‘WorkWell,’ all one word to hear more. If you like the show, don’t forget to subscribe so you get all of our future episodes. If you have a topic you would like to hear on the WorkWell podcast series or maybe a story you would like to share, please reach out to me on LinkedIn. My profile is under the name ‘Jen Fisher’ or on Twitter ‘@jenfish23.’ We’re always open to your recommendations and feedback. Of course, if you like what you hear, please share, post, and like this podcast. Thank you and be well.