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Join certified trauma professional Dr. Amy Hoyt and licensed therapist Leina Hoyt, MFT at https://www.mendingtrauma.com as they teach you how to recover from trauma and cPTSD. Trauma shows up in our everyday reactions and sensations and recovering requires a multi-prong approach that considers the mind, body and spirit. Dr. Amy and Leina will teach you the most emerging research and skills to empower you to overcome your past traumas. They address nervous system health, somatic therapy, trauma, cPTSD, EMDR, Neurofeedback, IFS (Internal Family Systems therapy), and many other modes of recovering from trauma. As mental health experts, sisters and trauma survivors, they teach you the tools that actually helped them recover, are backed by research and have helped thousands of their clients. Each episode is packed with clinically effective methods as well as scientific findings to guide you through your own trauma healing journey. Whether discussing cPTSD, PTSD, medical trauma, somatic therapy, nervous system regulation, EMDR or neurofeedback, Amy and Leina will help you recover from trauma so that you can reconnect to yourself and others.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (02:10)
Welcome back everyone. Today we are talking about a subject that I am very passionate about and that is how to forgive ourselves after trauma. Now this seems probably very strange because most of the time when we have trauma, we absolutely do not consider that we had anything to do with it. So why would we need to forgive ourselves?
Well, we are not talking about a literal forgiving of ourselves after a bad or terrible event that's overwhelmed us. Instead, we're talking about how we go out into the world after trauma and we develop all these behaviors and thought patterns as a survival mechanism. And this is what we're really talking about is how to unwind those and forgive ourselves in the moment.
when we're making a choice that doesn't align with our newer information of trauma recovery and where we're trying to go.
Leina (03:01)
Yes.
That was so well said. I love it. Yeah, because you're welcome, Amy Karen. Because if we don't make that explicit at the beginning, people are going to be really dysregulated. We're not saying you're responsible for any part of what was done to you that was traumatic. But Amy's clarification of part of what happens with trauma is that we develop really rigid thinking.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (03:10)
Thank you, Louise, Leina Louise.
Leina (03:37)
And our rigid thinking contributes to a very harsh inner critic. And then the inner critic gets activated and it causes us more distress and that leads to more behavioral issues.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (03:50)
Absolutely. And the other thing that happens after trauma is we become hypervigilant and that hypervigilance leads to seeing danger where there may or may not be actual danger. And so it's part of the way we think too. That leads. Yes, because I'm thinking of the way I employ some of the skills we're going to be talking about.
Leina (04:11)
Yes, I love how you said thought patterns.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (04:19)
And it's really about how I think. And sometimes it's about what I do and what I say, especially if my voice is raised. But it's really about my thought patterns because those are what are typically drive my behavior.
Leina (04:21)
Mm
Right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (04:39)
So one of the things that really happens to us after trauma is like Leina said, we develop rigid thinking. And as I mentioned, we develop hypervigilance, which leads to relationship and other challenges. But there's another piece that we really want to drive home and that is
If we have experienced trauma, especially childhood trauma, we're already in relationships with people who are,
have their own trauma. And so those relationships are already kind of fraught with patterns and ways of communicating that aren't really conducive to recovery.
Leina (05:31)
Yeah, great. That's a great phrase too.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (05:34)
So we're kind of in this triangle of rigid thinking and other symptoms from trauma, our own thought patterns, which developed to survive, you know, to help us survive and relationships with people who have their own trauma. And we've already set up these patterns in childhood of these relationships.
Leina (05:52)
Right, and we're just carrying on the way that we were wired to deal with things from an early, early age.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (05:59)
Exactly. And so the reason we wanted to do an episode about forgiving ourselves is because this is a skill set that has completely changed my life. No joke. And kind of like Leina has talked about radical acceptance being one of the most formative tools she's ever used. This is how forgiving and choosing again is what we
call it in shorthand, that's the effect it has had on my life. It's been a radical intervention.
Leina (06:33)
That's awesome.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (06:35)
So the work of Gabby Bernstein, who is an author and she's a spiritual leader, has been really important for me in understanding, forgiving myself and making different choices. And the book that I read that was so impactful was called May Cause Miracles. And I've read her other books as well, but
this was the book that really kind of drove home this this idea of making different choices and forgiving myself in the moment. So, Leina, you have some great quotes from some of her other books about what this is. Will you read those so we can kind of peel back some of the layers?
Leina (07:25)
Absolutely. I can remember when you introduced me to her and the book that I first read by her was called "The Universe Has Your Back." And I love that book. It's such a great book. And so when we have this podcast coming up, I read mostly now on Kindle. And so I did my search option and I found all these really great quotes from her in that book.
And here's one of them. She talks about how when we have something go wrong, whether it's just our opinion that it went wrong or something really did go wrong, we want to recognize that as a detour from the right direction and we want to choose to see all the things that have occurred as loving guidance.
And then she says, forgive your negative thoughts and actions and immediately return to your faith statement. So in this book, she talks about developing a faith statement that keeps you moving forward in your highest best, wisest self. And also she talks a lot in this book about forgiving a thought, but I can remember, and you've said this to me so many times, but I forgive that thought and I choose again.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (08:51)
Mm-hmm.
Leina (08:52)
And this is not about not holding ourselves accountable. This is more about getting out of that voice of that harsher inner critic or if you want to use language from internal family systems, from that protector part that's trying to make sure that you do everything perfectly so you can't be hurt or harmed by anybody.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:16)
Yes. So one example, this is probably when I realized the power of this tool, maybe about, I don't know, I always mark everything by pregnancies and childbirth. So the twins were probably three. So this would have been, you know, I don't know, seven, eight years ago.
Leina (09:30)
That makes sense.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (09:42)
I was in charge of a large family reunion with another family member of mine. And we had planned it out and agreed to do all these things and we drove to the location and somehow I inadvertently deeply offended this person. And they chose to...
instead of telling me that they chose to leave the family reunion and then they proceeded to text me really abusive texts. and I, in the meantime, had 150 family members who were flying in from all over the country and had to basically choose to continue to run the family reunion by myself.
Leina (10:27)
Right.
Right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (10:39)
This person also took all of the games, all of the, they took everything, all of the, yes, they took everything. And so that was, that was really challenging for me. And I chose to go forward with the family reunion because I felt I really wanted to see, you know, our extended family. And I wanted to provide
Leina (10:44)
It's all loaded in their car and they took off.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (11:09)
a good connective experience and I didn't want that incident to taint my whole weekend.
Leina (11:16)
Right. And it very very very easily could have.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (11:20)
Yes, yes. So that happened in the evening. I of course couldn't sleep all night, but the gift was on the drive up. It was up in the Lake Tahoe area on the drive up. I had been listening again to a Gabby Bernstein book and I had all of this like fresh in my head. And so as I laid in bed that night after
you know, finally blocking the person so I wouldn't get any more of the abusive texts. I just, every time I thought about this person, I was so upset and hurt by their words. And I, I thought, well, I'll just do an experiment and I'll start doing the Gabby Bernstein method of forgiving that thought and choosing again. So every, and this happened all night, y 'all. It was like all night long.
Leina (11:59)
Yes. Right.
Yes. Yes, Yes, yes, because it was a fresh trauma that brought up old traumas and it couldn't, like you couldn't get it to leave your mind.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:17)
Yes.
Yes. And I didn't want to process it verbally with anyone because I didn't want to taint their opinion of this person. And so what happened is I laid in bed and every probably every 15 to 20 seconds, a new thought would come in that was really angry and upset. And again, there's nothing wrong with being angry. There's nothing wrong with getting upset, but that's not what I wanted to swim in
Leina (12:29)
Right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (12:51)
for the family reunion. And so I would say to myself, like I would get this thought like, I can't believe they did this. Like what, you know, what a crazy person. Like I can't believe they wouldn't even just tell me like, Hey, that really upset me, you know? And then immediately I would say, okay, I forgive that thought. And I choose again, I choose to believe they did the best they could.
Leina (12:53)
Right.
Right. Yeah.
Right, yes.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:20)
And then another thought would come like, they are so mean, they're such a terrible person. Like they've always been a terrible person. I don't even know why I engage with them, you know, something like that. And then I would, you know, and these thoughts, they come so fast and furious as you all know, when we have a trauma or a really overwhelming event. And then I would say, okay, I forgive myself and I choose again, I choose the thought, you know,
Leina (13:28)
Right. Yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:47)
they didn't mean what they said. They were in their limbic brain.
Leina (13:51)
Right, yes, because we were talking about limbic brain and autonomic nervous system stuff around that time in our family.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (13:59)
Yeah. So, you know, and then my next thought would be like, well, you know, I forgive myself and I choose to remember that they probably have a super high ACEs score because we've been talking about ACEs. And so essentially I spent all night reframing every single thought that came into my mind. And, know, as you all know, when you're deeply offended, some of those thoughts are like, you know what I should have said? I should have said this to them.
Leina (14:12)
Right.
Totally.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (14:26)
Instead of texting mean things back, I was just like, what? So when I would come up with a thought that was like, yeah, you know, some sort of like mean thing I would say back. I'm like, okay, I forgive myself and I choose a different thought. And then I would choose to not be mean. So all night that happened. And I am telling you, it was a miracle. It was a miracle because I was sleep defra
Leina (14:39)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (14:54)
deprived, of course, because I literally didn't sleep all night. But I was able to connect with people, be authentic. They would say, why did so and so leave? I thought they were going to be part of it. And I would say, I'm not sure. They got really upset with me and they left. And so I also didn't protect them by making up a story. I just was factual.
Leina (15:09)
Mm -hmm.
You also didn't, yeah, but you also didn't, yeah.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (15:18)
And I was able to do that because of the work I had done by forgiving those thoughts and choosing again, have been able to reframe it in a more neutral way. And it was just amazing. And after that, I thought this, this is the best skill I've ever found.
Leina (15:37)
That is so awesome. It is a miracle that you were able to move forward because the work you did in that really hard night was what allowed you to stay present and engage with the people who were there and it allowed you to instead of ruminate, which is kind of a human condition when we're upset about something, it allowed you to move away from rumination.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (15:52)
Yes.
Leina (16:06)
But yeah, that's a really incredible story. And the reunion was great. Everyone loved it.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (16:13)
I ended up having a wonderful time. I mean I was super tired afterwards, but I absolutely loved it. And it actually is reestablished relationships that were super important to me in childhood of which I've now strengthened even more. And I've actually chosen to raise my children with these people, my cousins, you know? So it was, it was such, it was such a powerful skill that we just feel so strongly that we want
Leina (16:18)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (16:43)
our listeners to understand that there are tools out there that will change your life.
Leina (16:51)
Absolutely. And the goal is to start practicing those when you remember them. We often talk about how when you're in the middle of fight or flight or you're in the middle of freeze, you can't access your tools because they're stored in your prefrontal cortex and the blood flows cut off. But learning how to forgive yourself for not remembering.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (16:58)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes!
Leina (17:20)
That can be really powerful.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (17:22)
Yeah, I forgive myself for not remembering my tools in the moment and I choose again and I choose to realize I did the best I could.
Leina (17:30)
Yep, yes. And there's this really great, great quote in her, the universe has your back. She talks about how when we're in physical pain, we know that our physical pain calls for relief. It's very clear, like we can feel the physical pain, we want relief. And she says the same goes for judgment. Judgment is a form of emotional pain that you want to relieve.
Whether you realize it or not, you do not want to remain sick, sad, and fearful. You want to be free. And I highlighted this when I read it years ago. Witnessing your judgment without judgment, accept that you have chosen fear and be open to receive the help you're calling for. This then brings us to forgiveness. In any given moment that you witness yourself in judgment, you can become free by simply forgiving the thought.
Forgive yourself for having the thought and even forgive the thought altogether.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (18:34)
Mm, I love that.
Leina (18:36)
Yep.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (18:38)
So, dear listeners, whom we love, you're doing better than you know. We have another tool that is amazing. There are three steps to this tool. The first step is noticing it. You have to notice the thought in order to you know, suspend judgment and forgive ourselves. The second step is to forgive ourselves of the thought or the words or...
Leina (18:44)
Yep.
Right.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:03)
whatever we need to forgive ourselves for. And the third is to make a different choice in that moment.
Leina (19:09)
Yep.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:11)
Notice, forgive, choose again.
Leina (19:13)
Yes, and her newest book, I think it's her newest book, but it's called Super Attractor. And in that book, she outlines this process in more detail. And one of the things that she emphasizes on the choose again step, step three, is she says, answer this question in your journal. What is the best feeling or thought I can find right now?
Then ask the universe to guide you toward that thought.
And she said that change that she was talking about her own experience using this and how it changed her perspective and allowed her to let go of a lot of the fears and overwhelm she was feeling in the moment.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (19:59)
That's wonderful. And just so everyone is clear, can, you know, if you don't have a specific spiritual practice, you can say the universe, you can say love, you can say nature. And if you do have a specific religious practice, you can say God or Allah or whatever you your faith is rooted in. That's really critical. This is not in a
Leina (20:23)
Yes.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (20:28)
you know, in opposition to your own belief system, it's simply acknowledging a power greater than ourselves to help guide us.
Leina (20:36)
Yes, absolutely good clarification.
Dr. Amy Hoyt (20:40)
So thank you so much again for joining us and we really look forward to being with you next week.
Leina (20:47)
Take good care of yourselves.