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The Tracksuit Podcast is media industry professionals sit down with fellow creatives, filmmakers, and experts for wide-ranging authentic, unfiltered conversations about the entertainment industry - covering everything from the business of entertainment to the unexplained. Hosted by BJ Hendricks and James Cullen Bressack.
BJ: Welcome to the Tracksuit podcast.
James: This week's episode, welcome to the Tracksuit podcast. We have RJ Cooper. He's an editor and director and also one of my closest collaborators. He has edited most of my movies that I have directed in the past... I don't know what, seven years at this point. RJ edited Fortress, Darkness of Man, Boris is Dead, The Workout, Survive the Game, and I have proof by the time you see this.
BJ: RJ, welcome to the podcast.
RJ Cooper: Thank you for having me, guys. It's weird being on this side of the camera. I'm used to being in a dark room. Staring at nobody. Not
James: so dark. I've been to where you're at and it's pretty nice. We hang out there. I get to pet the cat Maui. So RJ, before we get into the details of your process... Where are you from and what brought you into filmmaking?
RJ Cooper: Well, I'm from Texas. Texas and Kentucky. My parents were divorced, so I split between the two. And I've been in film my entire life, like a lot of us have been. And, you know, I just at the age of 12, I just decided I'm going to be a filmmaker. That's what I'm going to do. So, you know, I came out here to go to college, went to film school out here in L.A. and I never, never went home. So I guess I'm Californian now.
James: Yeah. I mean, I call RJ my secret weapon because the man knows my footage at this point better than... I think I do sometimes, you know, I think we're I mean, we've collaborated so many times, but we're really, really clicked for me was, you know, when I was making a movie like The Workout where I'm doing like some scenes, 15 fucking cameras, you know, going at the same time and like. I just knew you would know what I was trying to do. And I remember when we first did our first movie together, Survive the Game, there was some finding each other's language and really finding it in the edit. But like since then, I think like every movie, your first cut, like your editor's cut that I see is so much closer to like what I would have my director's cut be. Right. That like, you know, I mean, we end up spending a lot of time, you know, going through it anyway. But it's like I remember every time I would see the first cut of my movie, you know, every film I would do, I would be like, oh, my God, why did I make this? This is horrible. Right. I'd like be pulling out my hair, which is why I'm bald. But, you know, now when I get a cut from you, I'm like,
RJ Cooper: fuck yeah, we made a movie.
James: This is awesome.
RJ Cooper: You actually surprised me on Darkness of Man because I turned in, you know, that opening scene. Yeah. And I thought, it's pretty good. But then when I got to set that one day, I came to set one time and you're like, here's the guy that saved our movie. And you were like showing to everybody. I'm like, wow, I must do a really good job.
James: So, yeah, yeah.
RJ Cooper: But I think it's weird. Like at this point, like I kind of do my version of the cut and I just think we we get there by osmosis at this point because I just I'm like, I just kind of sense what you were trying to do. And, you know, it's like that with a lot of directors I work with. You know, I kind of see the footage. The footage tells me what to do. You can tell by what you shot.
James: Yeah, but you know to dig through my footage, like I'll on the roll grab an insert, you know, to look for certain things and, you know, the tricks of fight scenes, how I like them and also like how, you know, performances. Sometimes I like to play with people's speed. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's certain tricks that we've developed together that I
RJ Cooper: think. Yeah, we came up with a really weird trick where we blend frames together that one time. Yeah. Was that for darkness?
BJ: It
RJ Cooper: was for the workout.
James: It really like kind of enhanced like a hit.
RJ Cooper: We had some frames that were not sitting right together and then James was like, why don't you blend it in there a little bit? When you
BJ: were talking about going to set, do you go to set a lot? That was the one
RJ Cooper: time I went to set. I haven't really been that many times. Well,
James: usually I'm shooting out of the state or out of the country, so it's hard for him to do that. And, you know, a lot of these were made. Hot Seat. I forgot to mention Hot Seat. He also edited Hot Seat. I mean, I forgot the workout,
BJ: too, for some reason. Just remember that.
James: But, you know, Hot Seat, you know, that was such a, you know, knowing what I was doing with the footage there as well. Like, you know, because we had to move so quickly on that movie. I mean, it was shot in seven days and you're getting, you know, this all this different stuff. I think that, you know, it's. It's great as a filmmaker on my end knowing I have a safety net of a person who understands why and how I'm shooting something. And when I say my closest collaborator too, me and you are sometimes going toe-to-toe with the studio or the producers to preserve the heart of the film and the story together. You get... As invested, if not more invested than I do at certain points, because by the time you're there, I'm, you know, I'm starting to be tired and you're like, nah, dude, we got this.
RJ Cooper: Yeah, I mean, it's our job to take the story apart and understand what it is that we're doing and why we're doing it. And, you know, the two of us are oftentimes the only people fighting for that, you know, at that point, because we've been with it for so long.
BJ: When you came out here, did you want to be an editor when you went to film school? Well, I wanted
James: to be a director. And I think that you can see that in RJ's editing because, you know, it's honestly the first time I've worked with an editor and I've worked with a lot of editors where me and you are... Very much talking about the arc of the character, you know, the meaning of why the performance is that way and really diving into, you know, what their heart of darkness is and, you know, the emotion of the scene and why that's what is driving this moment. And I think that you definitely approach it from a director's standpoint. And I think that's kind of why our language really works together.
RJ Cooper: I like to work from the outside, and so when I first read the script, I kind of get a sense of like, well, what is it that we're trying to say with this piece? Because to me, that starts my process. That's the most important thing about what we're trying to do. And then from there, then we jump kind of further into our characters and try to figure out what it is that these characters want and what are they trying to say. Yeah, you did that on Boris. You called me and you
James: were like, walk me before I even started filming. He was like, walk, I've read this, walk me through what we're doing here. That's why. You know, before I ever started shooting, I started walking him through the shot list and like, you know, that's, you know, and I even, I think you even suggested a couple shots like, oh, grab this and this. I mean, and we added that to the thing.
BJ: So you had hired RJ on Boris's day before you had started filming.
James: I told him I wasn't doing it if he wasn't doing it. I said, RJ has to do it.
BJ: That makes sense. Oh, that's awesome. So like you were just like pick up these shots of things. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's super. We had
RJ Cooper: shots. All right. You may have mentioned before. There were shots he didn't even know he had. Yeah. Because we had so many cameras rolling at once. There were cell phones. There were
James: on the workout. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
RJ Cooper: Never mind.
James: No
RJ Cooper: workout.
James: Yeah. Yeah. No, there's shots I didn't know I had on the workout. I only had, what, four monitors and sometimes ten shots going. On Boris, I think there was an interesting evolution to our collaboration because that's one of the first times you were involved on the pre-production. We were really talking about... Both the shots and also the music before we even started filming.
RJ Cooper: We knew that movie was going to have a lot of music. It needed a lot of needle drops. We just knew that instantaneously.
James: Yeah, and I think the music really drives the movie. It creates the character and really services the very unique edit he did for it because it's a very stylized edit. It was hard to
RJ Cooper: do because that movie could contain more stylistic choices than what we've done before.
James: And we had an argument on that movie that he ended up winning that I didn't think would work. And now it's one of my favorite parts of the movie, which is he wanted to do the transitions. And I said, no, all those transitions are like some Star Wars shit. I don't like that. Now we have these wipes and cool transitions that actually work for the style of the movie. It creates the style. But that was never my intention. And RJ
BJ: was like, no, it's going to work. And I was like,
James: I don't believe it is. And he sent me one scene and I was like, no. And he's like, I'm just going to do it throughout the whole movie. Just watch it with all of it throughout the whole movie. And I was like, fine. And he sends it to me and I was like, it works.
BJ: And you all haven't seen the movie yet, but you will for Boris is Dead. The title card that comes up at the beginning, who came up with that? Well, that was James.
RJ Cooper: He was like, I want big text to pop up. Boom. Boom. Boris is dead. Well,
James: and also the line, Boris is dead, was not in
BJ: the movie.
James: Oh, shit. Like, I changed your character's name to Boris and then had them say, Boris is dead, because that's when I wanted the thing to come up. I do remember, like,
BJ: when I got cast in that movie, I was like, oh, shit. Like, I'm playing this guy named, I forget what it was. It was, like, Michael or something. It was another chef, Mike. Yeah, chef Mike. And I was like, oh shit, I'm playing Mike, that's great. And then I get to set and they were like, oh no, no, no, you're playing Boris. And I was like, wait, as in Boris is dead, they go, correct. And I was like, that's fucking awesome.
RJ Cooper: But that's an instance of us being on the same page because he'll have an idea like that and then I'll be like, I know exactly how we're going to execute that. We're going to do this and then I'm going to tweak it here and try to make it a little bit better even, if I
James: can. He does more than make it a little bit better. This guy's got a kung fu, man.
RJ Cooper: Hire RJ Cooper. I have been called a Swiss army knife compared to other editors. Some editors have different strengths, but I am literally a Swiss army knife because this week alone, I've gotten so many compliments about how I do sound design, which comes up every so often. And, you know, I've been killing it on sound design on a few other movies.
James: You're kind of technically doing it on I Have Proof because we're done.
RJ Cooper: But we're doing VFX together. We're doing sound effects. We're doing some mixing there.
James: We try to have the movie as complete as possible before it leaves the room. You're doing templates.
BJ: Do you remember the first movie that you got to edit?
RJ Cooper: The first movie? Well, it depends. If we're talking about feature film? Yeah, let's go feature film. So mad props to Matt Eskandari. We did a USC mate of mine. We did a movie called, what's the name of that now?
James: You did three Bruce Willis movies with Matt too, right?
RJ Cooper: Yeah, three with him. Well, three and a half, kind of.
James: What was the
RJ Cooper: half? Well, I sort of helped out on one. Oh, okay. But unofficially. But anyways, it was called Game of Assassins. Is that what it is? Yeah. Bai Ling. Yeah, with Bai Ling. Oh, yeah. Love a Bai Ling. So we did that in China. And yeah, it was a crazy movie. It took us forever to finish. I feel like me and
James: Matt and I guess John are the directors you've worked with the most. Me and Matt Eskandari and John Keyes. That's right. Yep.
BJ: Yeah. And that one was your first one?
James: That was my
RJ Cooper: first one. Yeah, because before then I was doing graphic design for studios for a while. So I was doing posters for like Batman Begins and Spider-Man, things like that.
James: His concept art is so good. Your concept art is phenomenal.
RJ Cooper: But that whole time I was like, how am I going to be a filmmaker? How do I get out of this and make films? So I directed a short film during that time. We did really well. And then... Matt was like, hey, I got a feature. We're going to go shoot in China. I want you to edit this thing. And off we were.
James: In hell or high water, RJ is going to direct a movie for my company.
RJ Cooper: You've heard it
BJ: here first. He will for sure. For sure.
James: Direct a movie for my company.
BJ: I can only imagine. I mean, I've always heard being in the business. As long
James: as he never ever, once he blows up as a director, turns down my editing jobs.
BJ: He said, look, I got another movie. I got to direct.
James: Because I'm like, hey, dude, I need you to edit this, RJ. He's like, no, no, I got to direct. No, you got to stick with my movies, man.
BJ: It's got to be an advantage. Don't run it away,
James: RJ. We're a team.
BJ: It's got to be an advantage, though, right? To direct something that you know you're going to edit off the gate. That's just my thought.
RJ Cooper: Well, I mean, it's like when we're working, but I'm doing it for myself. I know the shots we need to go get and what the language is going to be. It's the same thing with him. We kind of talk about what the shots might be, and then I actually see the shots, and I see, okay, well, the language has to be this way. I start piecing it together, and I get strong feelings about things, and I try to put as much emotion into it as I can, and then hopefully that sells it to him. And
James: the more him and I... Work together, the easier the cutting I think gets for him as well because, you know, it's actually making me more efficient on set because I'm getting exactly what I know he's going to, you know.
RJ Cooper: Those last two movies though I gotta say were the toughest two movies we have ever done. Oh yeah of course. Like Workout and Boris for different reasons were extremely difficult.
James: Well the Workout was like just a collage of madness. I mean I don't know how a movie was made out of that but you know.
RJ Cooper: Yeah.
James: And now you're going to, I mean, this will be your easiest editing job. I think I have proof.
RJ Cooper: I mean, you'd think it'd get easier over time, but it does not.
James: I think I have proof will be your easiest because every scene is a oneer. Yeah. But I think what I've thought about is that it might be interesting because I don't know if all the scenes will go in the same flow that they're written as. The order might change, you know. Oh, for I Have Proof? Yeah. The order might change for pacing, so I am curious there, you know, but
BJ: do you have a favorite genre that
RJ Cooper: you like to edit? Oh, heavens no. Like, I do anything and everything, you know. I would love to do a romantic comedy. Those never come around. Oh, whoa. I can imagine
James: you'd like to do a kid's movie so
RJ Cooper: Sienna can watch it. A kid's movie, yeah. Yeah, that is one problem because I work a lot at home and my kid comes in, she's six, and she sees James' movies, people getting their heads blown off and... I like to block the
James: screen. She's in Hot Seat.
RJ Cooper: Oh, yeah, that's right. She's in Hot Seat.
James: Yeah, but the funny thing is about, you know, editing at your house, too, is I always, whenever you can't figure out a seat, I always have your wife come sit down and watch the seat. I was like, what do you think?
RJ Cooper: It's actually really cool because then he gets like a female perspective on what we're doing. I also like the
James: outside perspective because me and you have watched the scene 400 times at this point. She's
RJ Cooper: not into the blood and guts either. So you get a whole like, you know. Well, we ignore those comments.
James: I'm always like, make it more violent.
RJ Cooper: Is she in the industry or no? Oh, she was. Yeah, she used to work for Stan Winston. She used to work for Stan Winston. Oh my gosh, that's awesome. Yeah, and her family's been in the business a long time. Her dad was a camera operator on Schindler's List and stuff like that. Back to the Future.
James: I'm going to pivot a little. Have you ever gotten a movie that you just were like... How am I going to edit
RJ Cooper: this? Yeah. Yeah. I've had a few. Yeah. There's been a few where I'm like some some of it is like there were also relationships with the directors and I wasn't sure what they wanted.
BJ: Yeah. And what I was going to
RJ Cooper: do to make them happy, you know, because sometimes, you know, you see a bunch of scenes and you're like, what am I going to do with this? Like, yeah. I could edit it this way. Are they going to like that? Which direction should I go? And at the end of the day, you just kind of do what your gut tells you to do and cross your fingers it works. Was the workout
James: easier to edit because it was like our seventh movie together? Or would it have been harder to edit if it was our first?
RJ Cooper: No, I don't think that's what made it hard. It was just the amount of footage that you shot. Yeah, it's like an insane amount of footage. The angles you got were so different. You look at The Fortress, for instance, which is a fairly standard way of doing things. And everything was framed like a Hollywood movie. Yeah, that was the most
James: Hollywood cinematic I've tried to make something.
RJ Cooper: And then we tried to break it in the workplace. You had to fight your instincts a lot too because we were trying to make something that didn't feel...
James: But
RJ Cooper: in an odd way, that made it more cinematic because the angles were wider than we would have done. And I think from now on, both of us are like, yeah, take a step back.
James: That's what informed on Forrest is Dead.
RJ Cooper: We've been
James: shooting everything so much. We've shot everything way wider. And it was because of the workout, as weird as it. We shot everything so much wider. Anything we did was wider than normal because of the workout. That's really
BJ: interesting. Watching that movie, I now see that. Oh, there's a lot of scenes where you can see a lot of shit in those scenes.
RJ Cooper: And I really love this idea that James came up with when he talks about making that movie, which is let's pick an angle that we wouldn't shoot in, like break it, let's do it completely wrong. And when you do that, it breaks you free of how you would always do things and things come out different and interesting. And you really did a good job on that one. It's really interesting how that came out.
James: I don't know any other editor who could have come up with a movie out
BJ: of that. It looks good, too. I mean, even the HUD kind of things that come up, the template type. The little video
RJ Cooper: game. I knew we had a movie, though, with that one because we were showing it to my wife again like we do. And I looked over at her and there were tears coming down her eyes. And she was leaning forward. And I was like, oh, we did something special here. How long
BJ: does it take to edit a feature film that's not crazy? I
RJ Cooper: mean, it depends.
BJ: Is there an average for you that usually pans out?
RJ Cooper: It just depends on what it is. Anywhere from, if you're rushing me, five weeks to... If we're doing a DGA movie, they're allowed, what, ten weeks? Ten to twelve, yeah. Yeah, so that's
James: minimum. Have you ever made a movie where you knew from the beginning, from looking at the footage, it was not going to be good? And did that disparage you while you were doing it? Or did that invigorate you to save it?
RJ Cooper: I don't know if I've been on one that was like that drastic. I may have had a few. Actually, now that I think about it, there may have been a few I won't disclose. But yeah, you can tell from my perspective, I can tell pretty quickly. I would say within the first two days I can go, this is going to be pretty good. So even with Boris and the workout and Darkness of Man, I had that experience. I'm going, this is going to be great. Darkness of Man, for instance, we were getting amazing stuff. Oh, yeah.
James: I mean, those three movies are very stylized movies.
RJ Cooper: You know what I mean?
James: Like they're and very three completely different. It's like we did different genres for all. Right, right, right. Different filmmaking styles, different genres. Just so like, you know, it's it's I mean, I think for me as a director and for you as an editor, it's so different in many ways.
RJ Cooper: I think out of all the ones that we've done together, the one I've panicked on the most was probably Hot Seat because we were looking at that going like, what's he looking at? Because they were just blank screens. And then we had to do a whole...
James: Because Kevin's at a table the whole time.
RJ Cooper: A whole few weeks of planning out like, okay, he's clicking this and he's clicking that. Oh yeah, we had to work through all that. I had to make all that stuff and then they redid it. Yeah. But anyways, we had to go through all that.
James: And then we had the line producer saying, you can't use as many stock shots as you want. I was like,
BJ: what? We need them
James: all. Yeah. So we ended up getting them all, but we had to explain why we needed all this extra
RJ Cooper: stuff. We had police helicopters and cars and stuff. I wonder now, though, if we would just use AI to create our own stock shots for that.
James: Probably. I think that movie now versus then would probably be bigger.
BJ: You were number two on the cruise ship. My partner and I went on a cruise and we were laughing because it pulls up all the crazy movies you can get on that cruise. And it was Alice in Wonderland with Johnny Depp in the hot seat. I was like, damn, look at this.
James: It continuously keeps charting it like number one on Amazon Prime outside of the U.S. I
RJ Cooper: personally am really proud of the scene at the very end on the rooftop.
James: I am too, yeah. It's a
RJ Cooper: really good scene, and I hope people see it that way.
James: I think Michael Welch is such a great actor. Obviously, Kevin Dillon's a great actor, and so is Mel Gibson, but Michael just really fucking kills it there. He's another one of those fantastic actors that I've cast so many times because I just know he's going to deliver.
RJ Cooper: And it was kind of a long scene. I kept getting worried, like, is it too long? But then he would kill it so hard that you're just like, I'm still in this. Like, let it keep going. I think we killed maybe a few lines, but most of it was there.
James: I remember I stuck to my guns on that because of the short shoot. They were like, there's no way we can do a company move to be on top of the building.
BJ: And I
James: was like, it's the climax of the movie. We're doing the top of the building or we're not having the climax of the movie.
BJ: Absolutely.
James: So I fought for it and we got it.
BJ: I mean, was that a crazy situation to film on top of that building?
James: Oh, it was windy as hell. Oh, no. Yeah, it was windy as hell, you know, but it was worth it. And I did it in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and we did it right at sunset and stuff. It was so perfect. You know, all of it, it was awesome. And Michael really crushed it. Had he not crushed it, because I think he only got like two takes. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was a long monologue. Yeah, it was like a five minute monologue.
BJ: I think we only had two
James: takes. And if he didn't crush it, like, you know, we would have been screwed. You know, and so really shout out to him. I mean, I think that's such good acting. One thing I was going to bring
BJ: up. I was pivoting. Just you. Did you say you grew up in Kentucky?
RJ Cooper: Kentucky and Texas, yeah. My dad lived in Kentucky, so I went there in the summers and sometimes longer. I ended up going to college there for a year to the University of Kentucky. Go Wildcats. And then I transferred to USC, but I grew up in the Woodlands, Texas, near Houston. Oh, that's
BJ: awesome. Super cool.
James: In somebody who recognizes the director's footage and sees the director's footage more than probably anybody else, probably more than even the director does, have you picked up from certain directors you've worked with, like myself, Matt, John, because you've done so many of them, like a signature thing that they do?
RJ Cooper: Huh, that's a good question. I think each of you values different things. With you, I think you value the performance and the action kind of combined. So I think with you, you like seeing like the action and you have this sort of sense of humor that you kind of like to inject in your stuff. Like there's this, I don't know how to describe it exactly. Would you call it dark sense of humor? I have a very dark, yeah. Oh, you really came out on Boris is Dead.
BJ: Yeah, for
RJ Cooper: sure. We really went all the way on that movie for once, but it's always kind of there. But I think, you know, with Matt Iskandari, it's about relationships. Yeah, with Matt Iskandari, it's about relationships and how people relate to one another, and he wants to really see that kind of come out. You know, with John, like, I'm not sure... Let's see. With John, what is it? I don't know. It's complicated with him because I don't always interact with him in person. We kind of email back and forth. Like he's not here. Yeah. So with him, it's the same thing. I think it's about individuals fighting against impossible odds. And he often has female protagonists. So there's a lot of like kind of a female point of view to his films. So we kind of go into that a bit. So yeah, it's something a little different from every director. But you kind of sense it from the material. It's not like I'm... I'm guessing too much. I mean, I'd say I get maybe 80% of it from the script and what the shots look like because the shots, again, they tell you what the director's thinking. I see the shot. I see how many wide shots they got, you know, how many takes even. Like if they got a bunch of wide shot takes and I know that's important to the director, you kind of just... Kind of just tell. So there's just a lot of that going on and what there is. Sometimes I kind of buck against it depending on what it is. So for a lot of these films, you want them to feel bigger and more cinematic and a bigger movie than what they actually had. And in that case, you're always kind of fighting for longer takes and wider shots. Yeah,
James: because Spielberg, not a lot of coverage in his movies. It's really just about... Thoughtful framing and bigger shots, you know.
RJ Cooper: I think oners are important to you. You do a lot of oners that other directors don't do. What do you mean by oners? Shots have no cuts.
James: Yeah. I always have one really complicated
RJ Cooper: oner in every movie. Yeah. He might give me coverage, but you kind of sense, like, don't use the coverage. He doesn't want to see it.
James: I'm still to this day very proud of the oner in Fortress where Sidarius is going through the hall and just taking out all these different guys and then blew up the guy. For sure. Yeah.
RJ Cooper: With Madisk and Dara, we have some really beautiful moments between fathers and sons or things like that. Yeah, I really thought that
James: was powerful in Survive the Night. Oh, yeah. That was really
RJ Cooper: great. And we had one with sisters. Those really stick out to me. So
James: you've edited a lot of actors. Yeah. What actors have been just so much gold that's been given to you that you almost feel like, oh man, I can't believe I'm having to leave some of this on the cutting room floor?
RJ Cooper: I've got two. One is Antonio Banderas. Like, Antonio, if you're listening, I love you.
James: You've edited him three times, right?
RJ Cooper: Three, one, two... I've lost track. At least three.
BJ: That's awesome.
RJ Cooper: One,
BJ: two.
RJ Cooper: Yeah, three or four. Yeah. He's just amazing. He feels like a member of my family. He has no idea who I am. I sit in a dark room. I meet nobody. But I'm like, this is Uncle Antonio. But there's something so genuine and so heartfelt about his performances and the way that he connects to the other actors in his scenes. And you just love him for that. And I hope that comes across in the movies that I've done with him and what we've edited into the scenes. The other one is Alice Eve. We did a movie with her and Antonio and... Alice, you are amazing too if you're listening to this. You were just gold every scene and there was just something going on behind your eyes and there was just meaning there and what we were doing and I just love the way she was in like every scene we had her in.
James: What movie are you the most proud of?
RJ Cooper: Oh, that's tough, too. Because I'm proud. They're all like your little babies. That's why I'm like a director already. Yeah, exactly. We give birth to these things and you're like, you know,
James: fly away, little bird.
RJ Cooper: Make your way back to the nest.
James: But I still selfishly rank my favorites to least
RJ Cooper: favorites. It's true. I was thinking about this this morning. I like The Fortress for a few reasons. I know it's not everyone else's favorite, perhaps. I don't know. It's not
James: my favorite of the ones we've done together, but I do like The Fortress for sure. Darkness
RJ Cooper: of Man has a lot of great things going for it. I like that one quite a bit. I like a movie I did with Matt Eskandari called 12 Feet Deep Trap Sisters. The pool. Yeah. That one, yours, and then one I did with John Keyes, they renamed it so it's called... That's the one with,
James: I'm assuming, Alice Eve and Antonio. Yeah, yeah.
RJ Cooper: Antonio Benta. So, Cult Killer.
BJ: Cult Killer. Cult Killer. And pivoting to director-wise, like, is there genres that you really want to direct based on your own likeness or what you've edited in the past? Well, I
RJ Cooper: love sci-fi. Same. Have we done a sci-fi? Have you done a sci-fi? I
James: haven't because I'm a firm believer, maybe with AI augmentation I might change my mind, but I'm a firm believer that I don't like to set myself up for failure, so I don't want to do anything that I don't have the budget to actually accomplish. I'd love to make a war movie, but I don't want to make one if I don't have millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars to have the right background.
RJ Cooper: That's awesome. I'd say, I mean, Western. I've always wanted to do Western. I know we may or may not be doing one. I've heard rumors. I've heard rumors of
BJ: Western.
RJ Cooper: I'm collecting sound effects for that right now in preparation.
BJ: That would be amazing. Just in
RJ Cooper: case.
BJ: Sci-fi would be fucking amazing. You would be great at sci-fi too, even if it's the kind of contained type sci-fi movie. I
RJ Cooper: mean, I really love Denis Villeneuve. Of course, yeah. Because he makes
James: very personal stories on a large scale.
RJ Cooper: That's what I'm hoping to do. I'm hoping to do with you. You know, if we do something bigger, you know, I thought Blade Runner was genius. I think Dune's genius. We'll see how it comes out. I think it'll be good. Sicario, I mean, how many times has Sicario come up with our producers on all these thrillers like, make you like Sicario. But the
James: funny thing is, you make it like Sicario and they're like, boy, I don't like this. That's not Sicario. Have you watched Sicario?
RJ Cooper: And how many trailers and temp music tracks we heard that's always like, use the Sicario music. So if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that one. I mean,
James: how often have you had to use this temp music interstellar?
RJ Cooper: I mean, I love Hans Zimmer, but we've never been able to use it. What
James: about Dark Knight? I feel like we've used that quite a bit.
RJ Cooper: Oh, yeah, we used Dark Knight a few times, yeah.
BJ: Is that just to hold the music, just holding music until you- Placeholder.
James: Yeah, yeah.
BJ: I mean, how does that work when you have that kind of awesome music and then you just have a composer trying to kind of match that vibe?
James: I feel like of directors, I've been the most intense about music.
RJ Cooper: You have been.
BJ: Yeah,
James: right?
RJ Cooper: Yeah.
James: Because I know that I'm like, nope, nope, not this one, not this one. I'm so intense about the music because I want it to be so close to what my vision is. And by the time I'm showing it to the producers so that they don't just shoot down the movie. They know everything that it's going to be when it's fully done. And I think RJ really understands that with me. It's like we really want it to be the closest it can be before they give notes so that they're not looking at a half-baked thing and going, it's not working.
RJ Cooper: I've debated with myself, should I edit with music or take it out of there? But then for me personally, I'm so musically oriented. I play a lot of musical instruments. James might have noticed my guitars around the editing room. I've never gotten them out for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have them play a little jig. But for me, the music is a way to set up tone. What I'm doing is crafting tone and understanding the tone that these directors want, James wants. And music for me is a huge way of doing that, setting up pace and understanding what it is. And so for me, like I like to drill down into music when I'm editing and try to figure out what, you know, what the pace of this is going to be. And sometimes I feel like I'm playing a musical instrument, to be honest, like on the for sure, you know, when I'm editing because I'm clicking the keyboard and I'm like,
James: there's a serious rhythm to it. Yeah.
RJ Cooper: And sometimes I have to make up the rhythm, you realize, because actors aren't always the best at understanding what the rhythm of the scene actually should be. So it's like up to me. Well, it's because
James: they're very much a lot of the time in their microcosm of their character versus like the whole story. And sometimes then you have actors that are in performances in a movie that feels like a different movie than the movie is
BJ: being made, you know. And so as a director,
James: you have to kind of hone that in. And then the editor kind of helps with that as well. But we kind of Do little tricks to almost change performance.
BJ: Even for mine and Boris.
James: I was like, oh shit. James showed it to me a little
BJ: bit earlier. And he was like, yo, this is what it looks like so far. And I was like, oh shit. That made me look really fucking good. From doing scene to scene to scene to scene inside of all of that. I was like, shit, that all pieced together made me look real fucking good. I
RJ Cooper: gotta say, what's funny about you is you're in almost every movie we've done. And I hadn't met you for a long time. And I was like, who is this cat? And I thought you were a completely different character. I mean, that just means you're a great actor, because when I meet you in person, you are a completely different person.
BJ: That's awesome. I never can tell the difference, so I appreciate that.
RJ Cooper: Because, you know, in one movie, you're a bartender, and you're all just like, you know, what'll it be? And I thought you were a completely different person. And then, you know, another one, you're a doctor, you're super serious.
BJ: That was the hardest
RJ Cooper: show.
James: RJ definitely fixates on certain roles too. I remember you really loved the performance of Randall in Darkness of Man who played the guy at the gas station. Oh yeah, he's
RJ Cooper: wonderful. You were like,
James: that guy's great. He just called me randomly and was like, that guy's great.
RJ Cooper: Randall Bacon. RJ's like,
BJ: I'm putting him in my next movie. That guy's a
RJ Cooper: natural man. Yeah. Yeah, there's been a few of those.
BJ: You've definitely made me look good. I mean, same thing with the workout, Boris, like all of that. I was like, oh, shit, because I was nervous.
RJ Cooper: Were you in survive the game? I can't remember. No, no, no, no. I wish I
BJ: was surviving the game, but my game did not survive. My game did not survive.
James: So what movie inspired you to want to make movies? E.T. E.T.? Yes, dude. I got E.T. tattooed in my leg right here.
RJ Cooper: So for me, my mission after seeing that, I consider that like a symphony.
James: That's why you fucking like Fortress the most because it's very almost E.T. like Spielberg coded. Yeah.
RJ Cooper: I just always thought, you know what? I want to make movies that make people cry. And so to me, like I'm always balling it during that movie, especially the whole the last 20 minutes. That movie is just genius where they, you know, E.T.' 's not dead. They get in the car, the van. They're like in a car chase. They lift off. They fly across the sun. And then there's all the goodbye sequence, which just rips your guts out. And then and then he flies off and then they leave a rainbow at the end and just holy cow. It's one thing after another. So
James: I've never met a person more ready to direct their first feature, by the way. I've never met somebody more ready. So, I mean, you know, obviously, you know, me and him have been working on putting together that feature. But, you know, I think it's really exciting that, you know, you are kind of moving towards that at the moment. And, you know, I'm a
RJ Cooper: little I'm a little nervous, guys, just, you know, just because it's been so long. I know
James: he's nervous. He calls me all the time.
RJ Cooper: Yeah. So he's probably sick of me, sick of me complaining or not complaining, just like, what do I do? What do I do? No, never, never, never. But I've been at this since I was 12 years old, much like you, you know, but I was in Texas and Hollywood was... A dream. A million miles away. I didn't know anyone would want to make movies. Same. So I would just get my friends together. We'd go make stuff. Yeah. Hell yeah. And in fact, funny story on one of Matt's movies, Trapped Sisters, 12 Feet Deep. I was watching the movie and I see the credits go up and down. And one of my buddies was like Grip or Gaffer. I can't remember which on that movie. Oh, wow. Back from Texas. And I'm like, you made it out here? Like you were there the whole time. I was like on set. I never noticed he was there. So did you reach out? Yeah. So now delete Isaac. If you're watching this, you're my bro forever. Yeah, we used to go make movies together. He lived next door to me. I thought I just thought he probably wouldn't have made it to L.A. But sure enough, I think he lives in Pasadena. That's fucking awesome. So he's he's a grip or something. I think small world.
BJ: Yeah. Did you used to make things when you were a kid?
James: Not only did I make things when I was a kid, but I would do them instead of a book report. I'd get a book report and I'd make a short film as my book report and turn that in. And they'd be like, no way. Or my art project would be a short film. I made tons of short films all the time and my teachers just hated me for it. I used
BJ: to do the same. My parents used to, before they divorced, I used to... Put up posters in their hallway of just like little cardboard pieces of paper. And they could choose what movie I was going to perform for them that night.
James: In science class, I was supposed to make a... Like a report on what would happen if like the moon disappeared or whatever. You know what I mean? And so they would like they had all this like, you know, the tides and all these different things like that, you know, doing the research. So I made a short film called Lunar Impossible, which was like a rip off of Mission Impossible where some some crazy man steals the moon. And like, you know, this guy named Wheat Thin Munt instead of Ethan Hunt has to have I have to hunt him down and, you know, get the moon back. Shout out to weep. It was
BJ: terrible.
James: But obviously, like, that's what I would do instead of instead of doing my actual schoolwork. That's awesome.
BJ: It's interesting. All three of us would have something younger that would get you to what you want to do really dream wise.
RJ Cooper: Even in college for me, it was similar. At the University of Kentucky, they didn't have a film department. And so I kind of found some other people who were projecting movies every Friday, whatever it was. And so I got to help them out. And I ended up making a movie there with some friends. Again, even there, it's impossible. People weren't making movies back then. It wasn't like you go out and do it. More so we do it now. But...
James: You're not just grabbing a VHS camera and going, let's go.
RJ Cooper: And then at USC, I get to USC and you know how you have to take all these classes that aren't filmmaking. And so I was like, screw this, I'm going to go make a film. So I grabbed some friends of mine and we were the only weirdos making a film when other people weren't. Who's that weird guy running around campus with a camera? Is he supposed to be here?
James: And now you're refinding that energy. Now you're getting some friends together and you're making a film, right?
RJ Cooper: But you know what happened though? Because it turned out I was pretty good at editing. And that saved me in a lot of ways. Because you get out of film school and it's like, now what? And so I think you had a leg up because you were in the business. Yeah.
James: Yeah, I didn't go to film school.
RJ Cooper: I just immediately,
James: my first movie, I just made it for $7,000 and then I just kept making movies until eventually I got hired.
BJ: It was weird because none of us knew who your dad was the entire time you were making a lot of those movies. Oh,
James: my dad never hired me. He never gave me a job. He never
BJ: introduced me to
James: anyone. Like I literally he got me no work. But what he did give me was an education in storytelling. And that's like how like my leg up was. I really knew story and how to write. And so like I wrote really good scripts that like I could turn into a movie. And and that kind of just helped, you know, I mean, you know, believe me, you know. I loved my father, but if he was able to make live action stuff, he would have. He was making cartoons. I didn't follow that path because I was trying to do something so different than his because I was like,
BJ: he's making cartoons. I'm going to make fucking horror movies. So I made violent ass
James: horror movies. My second movie got banned in the UK. Was that hate crime? Yeah. So I was just outlandishly off the wall. But I made my first movie on a $7,000 budget. Then I made my second movie on a $7,000 budget because I made that $7,000 back off of the first one. And then my third movie I made on a
RJ Cooper: $500 budget. Didn't you shoot one of those first ones on a phone yet?
James: Yeah, so To Jennifer was on a phone.
RJ Cooper: Robert Rodriguez model, right? Yeah, that's why I did it because I was like,
James: that's all he needs. And so that's why I've started this program where I give first-time filmmakers, I mean, not you, we're doing a much larger one, obviously, but I give first-time filmmakers $7,000 to make their first movie because they're like, well, I don't have $7,000. I'm like, let's do it. Here's seven grand. Let's make a movie.
BJ: And if you think you can't do it, you can totally do it.
James: It's provable. Yeah, you did one of them. You did Scissors, except you cheated.
BJ: I cheated and I spent my whole money on that.
James: Yeah, but I have this program where I take filmmakers either early on in their career or at the very beginning, and I give them $7,000 to make their first horror movie. I get them distribution. Sometimes it's an action movie. We had one penance just play Fantastic Fest that was an action movie made by Nick Pellicay. I can't even figure out
BJ: how they did that. Some of the car sequences in that scene. Yeah, it's
James: insane what they were able to do, but it's definitely so. If you're listening and you want to send me a pitch for a $7,000 movie that you think you can make, definitely shoot me a DM. Let's
BJ: talk. And then I know you said you were interested in sci-fi, so that leads me to my question I ask a lot of the guests on this show. Do you believe in UFOs? Oh, of course. Oh, yeah. The man who loves E.T., of course he does. He wants to meet E.T. Have you seen a UFO or no?
RJ Cooper: No. Well, I did see on set one time in Phoenix, we saw a weird, weird ass asteroid, like big tail come down right in the middle. It's funny, funnily enough, we were shooting like an alien invasion movie. Great special effects. Yeah, right. They're here. Yeah, but no, I haven't seen anything in particular. I hear there's a lot going on out there by Catalina. Oh,
James: yeah, yeah.
RJ Cooper: Underwater UFOs.
James: Oh, you mean Gerald the Dolphin? No. Oh,
BJ: this Gerald the Dolphin thing is crazy where he drug that dude down to the bottom and then
James: put
RJ Cooper: a... I do know Gerald the Dolphin. I remember this story now. Yes,
James: yes. It's apparently been debunked, but I bring it up once a podcast.
BJ: If he doesn't, we do it for him.
James: Aliens, do you believe that they're
RJ Cooper: here? Oh, absolutely.
James: You believe they're here on Earth currently?
RJ Cooper: I believe I've met them before. Okay. I think they're walking among us. We just don't know. Do you think they know? Do they know that they're aliens? Yeah. Yeah, of course. I
BJ: don't know. See, I was just wondering. Oh, you
RJ Cooper: think they've lived here so long they have no idea? Or
BJ: they just are like, I don't know, maybe they just haven't been programmed on that deal. So it's easy for them to
James: take it. I personally believe it's crazy to think that there wouldn't be intelligent life in the universe outside of our planet. Obviously, probably way more intelligent than us. Oh,
BJ: man. Did you see that video where the Pentagon released that deal where it's like the orb is like going, they hit that thing with a missile, that thing breaks apart, it fucking molds itself. No. Wow. That's some crazy shit.
RJ Cooper: I just know when you see images from this last space mission of planet Earth from the moon, we look so alone in this precious little orb. It's just totally a mind-blowing thing to see. And if you're an astronaut and you're looking back and you're like, wow, we are literally in a desert of nothingness, it would be an awful waste of space if there wasn't anybody else out there.
BJ: Or that layered kind of universe situation.
RJ Cooper: What would be the point of all that? Like, how did we even get here? It doesn't make any sense. I mean,
James: as a filmmaker, I have said this before, but I selfishly want there to be aliens because I want to watch their movies. I'm hoping that they would have a society of like, you know, 10,000 years of movies or something. And I'm like, I want to see their movies. What all
BJ: do you guys have? Yeah, I
James: want to see Glooballtube, the movie. Blurp 1
BJ: and 2.
James: Oh, dude, Blurp 3. Excellent,
BJ: dude. Blurp 3 is going to be the win. Stephen
James: Blurpsen. Stephen Blurpsen.
BJ: Blurpy St. John. He got the Blurpy. The
RJ Cooper: Blurpy. Or would you rather a UFO landed right in the middle out here in the street and they're like, we must see Go Car Go. Where's James Cullen Bressack? He's a
BJ: hot,
James: hot seat, hot seat. I'd be like, yo, get me off this planet. You're also now a part of the club officially today. The podcast club? No, the Tesla club. You got a Tesla. So what made you decide to go electric with a Tesla? A war going on, first of all.
RJ Cooper: And, yeah, I think things are going to get worse a lot faster than they're – or, you know, anyways, things are going to get worse. And I'd rather – you know, it's weird. When you get in a Tesla and you start driving around, you're like, this is the future. Like, here it is. We just talked about how I love sci-fi. Getting in that car is like jumping into a sci-fi movie. Talking to Grok, for instance, you know, the car can talk to me now. Like, this is bizarre. You know, I'm going from a gas-guzzling, you know, Honda to – You know, something I can type in where I want to go. It'll talk back to me.
James: It'll let you know you got a charge on the way. Yeah. I mean, I... So, and have you used the full self-drive yet? Like, it's kind of crazy.
RJ Cooper: Yeah, I mean, we use it in a test drive.
James: It's insane. Yeah. I mean, I... I've had my Tesla for a couple years now, and... I hated driving until I had one. And now I love it because I'm not
BJ: driving. We'll be riding with James and he's like, oh man, it's okay. And then just click that button and they'd be in conversation. That is such an
RJ Cooper: LA thing to say too. Like, I hate driving here. That's probably the biggest, probably even bigger than the war is I hate driving.
James: I mean, I didn't mind driving when I was in Las Cruces or when I was in Oklahoma when there was no traffic and nobody off the streets. Then it's peaceful. Yeah, it's
BJ: peaceful. It
James: was like a nice little drive, but traffic and people yelling at you, stressed out. Now I don't take it personally. They're just yelling at my Tesla. They don't like Elon. It's fine. I don't take it as personal. I'm like, I'm not doing anything. Why are you honking at me?
BJ: Plus, the city is just full of Teslas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We went to
RJ Cooper: four dealerships yesterday. And the pattern I'm noticing is a lot of people are going, they're going, what, you know, they're into the self-driving thing. That's like the big selling point for them. Like old, young, I don't want to drive anymore. Yeah. So I'm like, wow, this hardware Ford thing is really big for them. So anyways.
BJ: Did you go to four different Tesla dealerships? Yes. Oh, wow.
RJ Cooper: My wife wanted to make sure we got the precise right thing. So we went to used ones. We went to new ones. Did you get a new one? Got a new one. That's awesome. Well, anyways, there's reasons. Have you picked it up yet? I'm getting it in about a week. I
BJ: thought you might have drove it here today.
James: We were about to pause the podcast and go for a test drive.
BJ: I said, you'll be seeing pictures of RJ's new car.
RJ Cooper: I think your interior is probably nicer than mine. You got the whole leather, don't you?
James: I don't know. I don't know what I got. I think it's, I got
RJ Cooper: the black interior.
James: It is nice.
RJ Cooper: My other director, a friend that I just worked for, Jeremy Weiss, he has basically the model I bought. So he kind of like, that was kind of official. I drove in his car a few times. I'm like, oh, this is a nice car. I think I spent
James: like most of the editing time trying to convince you. You should get a Tesla. Yeah.
RJ Cooper: Laura was like, yeah, yeah. And then we never did anything. Yeah, yeah. We should have done it then. But you called me all excited. Like, I'm getting one. I'm like, yeah.
BJ: As of today, I believe we rode past the gas station this morning. It was 660. Yeah, it's insane.
James: Yeah, which is also funny because in the movie I Am Legend, like where it's the end of the world, the high gas prices were 530. Brilliant. So I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That was crazy then. Because I remember back when I was a kid, you could fill up a tank of gas, like you'd spend $20 and you'd have like a full tank that would like last you the whole weekend. And even then I was like, you
BJ: know, $20 is a lot of money. I mean, even a couple of years ago when I had the Jeep Wrangler, I mean, I could keep that gas going for quite a while. I love that I don't have that at the moment.
RJ Cooper: The biggest deal for me, now that I think about it, is they put a Tesla charger right in front of my parking spot, like in my condo. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now I have to do it.
James: Yeah, but what happened is, you know, your phone was listening to you debating about whether it gave Elon an alert, and he's like, all right, install the charger at this guy's parking spot. Activate Neuralink. Get it there. He will now charge. Our building got the...
RJ Cooper: The city itself put 40 chargers in our building for free. So they put them every eight parking spots. So it happened to be right in front of my... What area are you living in? On the west side. You don't
James: want people to know where your house is. What's your address?
BJ: Put your address on the podcast. Can I get those chargers for free? I know we're coming towards an end of the podcast, but for people that are wanting to be the next RJ on the editing side or wanting to get that shot at directing, what advice do you have for them?
RJ Cooper: I think for people starting out, I would say say yes to everything at first. Don't say no, unless your life's at risk or it's really shady. But just say yes and get the experience under your belt. The more you do, the more people you meet, the more you do them.
James: I mean, that's a movie of itself. In what scenario would your life be at risk as an editor?
BJ: I
RJ Cooper: know, really. Are
James: you editing some very dangerous footage?
BJ: Epstein footage.
RJ Cooper: People try to back you into bad deals that aren't going to be healthy for you or your family, so don't work for free forever, but you might have to do
James: one or two.
RJ Cooper: But, you know, you'll be lower paid for a while, but just do it and build up the experience and meet people and meet James, meet BJ. I
James: mean, the industry ebbs and flows. I mean, you know, it expands and contracts and expands and contracts. I mean, we've experienced that. How many times? We talk about it ad nauseum.
RJ Cooper: And I have never gotten a job by resume or website or anything like that. It's always word of mouth. So just keep meeting people.
BJ: And also hire RJ.
James: He literally is my guy. I work with this dude on all of my movies. I trust him with my footage, which means I trust him with my life.
BJ: Yeah, your editing skills are amazing. Just you as a person is fucking phenomenal. Oh, thank you. My partner and I left sushi when we were all at it the other night before we went to the Boris premiere. And we left there and we said, man, like RJ would be like the perfect director. Because he already knows all the cuts and it's what you hear, but you don't get to see it a lot on there. And I'm just, I'm super excited for what you're going to do in the future. And I hope you're in it.
RJ Cooper: I have a part planned out.
James: What's the most amount of movies you've edited at the same time? Because I know that you've, I know a couple of times you've had to edit a few at the same time.
BJ: I didn't think about that. So you have to edit things at the same time, I guess. Three. Three. Oh,
James: shit. Yeah, look at that. How do you keep your mind in three different worlds? I'm not able to do that as a filmmaker.
BJ: I'm not able to do that as a regular person.
James: I don't know. I
RJ Cooper: don't know. In fact, that's why my brain's all scrambled today. No, yeah. I mean, sometimes, yeah, I'd get confused. Like, what movie was I on? What are we doing here? Like, and then someone will need something and I'll be like, oh, I forgot, you know, I forgot what I was doing or they need this and that.
James: He's saying that, but he's unbelievably on top of it. I mean, maybe he says that on his own, but he's never dropped the ball on my end. But yeah, how do you keep your mind in three different worlds?
RJ Cooper: It's just... That's just how I do things. It's interesting too because a lot of editors will be like, I have to work. I don't like going to watch movies. I don't watch TV. I'm like, I'm going to watch a whole series right after I finish. I'm going to watch
James: Game of Thrones, man. Have you seen the new Night of the Seven Kingdoms?
RJ Cooper: Yes, it's brilliant. It's
James: great. Wish
RJ Cooper: I was on that show. Wow. Yeah, it was great. Pluribus, if you're watching.
James: I haven't seen that one, but I really love Vince Gilligan.
RJ Cooper: Incredibly difficult show to pull off. I don't know how they're doing it. I know the hook of it. I think it's a great
BJ: hook. John Cena's in that shit. It's fucking funny. John Cena's on it? Randomly as fuck. John Cena's here on
James: the podcast right now.
BJ: Yeah, he should be.
James: No, he is. He's right here.
BJ: You get behind that plant. No, he's right here. You can't see him? No. You can't see him?
James: RJ, we are coming to the end of the podcast. So, you know, just a couple of things. Where can people find you? Oh,
RJ Cooper: rjcooperfilms.com.
BJ: Are you on Instagram, too?
RJ Cooper: I am. I think I'm at rjcooperfilms.
James: You don't really like to use this Instagram that much, though.
RJ Cooper: I don't. That means go ahead and follow
James: him. Follow him. Bother him. I'm looking
RJ Cooper: more lately, though. I'm trying to embrace the Instagram. Follow him and
James: hire him. And one last question, and it might be the craziest question to ask for the very end. With the addition of AI, especially in post-production, where do you see that going and does it concern you?
RJ Cooper: For my end of things, it doesn't concern me. It just makes things more interesting. How do I phrase this? We're able to do more and I think directors and producers are going to expect more from us. Situations like Hot Seat. We didn't get this. Can we get a helicopter flying over and police cars and this? Can you make that? And then I'll have to be like, yeah, I guess so. And we'll figure it out.
James: I feel like editors are going to have to know AI pretty well, but I think it's going to get rid of a lot of VFX jobs for sure. I mean, you saw Disney just cut most of their VFX department. Oh, really? Yeah. But I also think it's going to, I mean, cut back on AEs, like definitely a lot less time for assistant editors. Well, I would
RJ Cooper: say we'd push them in a different direction, less of the organizational stuff.
James: Yeah, because I feel like AI would be able to do...
RJ Cooper: I really like my team and how, you know, if we got a chance to really work together through an entire film, which we haven't really had in a while. Since Darkness. Darkness of Man was
James: last, yeah.
RJ Cooper: You know, but when we have that situation, when we have an AE, we can bounce ideas off each other and collaborate and... I can put an AE on artificial intelligence tasks, like make me these shots, make me these voiceovers.
James: So you don't think it's going to get rid of jobs, you think it's just going to change what the job is? For me... Yeah. For others, I don't know. For AEs too. Yeah.
RJ Cooper: I think worst case at the end of the day, I kind of suspect it'll be me and a director left in a room together at worst. But that's what it is. That's what it is now. Before any of this AI
James: stuff, it's always been me and you in a room.
BJ: Have you been able to use AI lately on some of these things?
RJ Cooper: Yeah. We did a movie called Night Driver and we jumped wholeheartedly into that. Jeremy Weiss and I really... Jumped in and tried to find solutions to problems we've always had where we didn't have stock footage. We didn't have establishing shots. These are shots that we never got or didn't have time to get or whatever. A producer now can say, I want a police car pulling up to this thing and we can make that. Do you feel
BJ: like it fits within the edit that you already have?
RJ Cooper: And voiceover, you know, or ADR work. Like we, James and I were in a situation where we needed Bruce, Bruce Willis to say stuff. And he hated ADR. He never liked it. And now it would be awesome to be able to, you know, you can input a voice into 11 labs, get the actor's permission, of course, and they're okay. And most
James: actors don't enjoy doing ADR.
RJ Cooper: Yeah, it's really hard and kind of you're not in the performance. You're in a dark room like this and it's weird.
BJ: You felt like the quality has been great on that? Yeah, I mean,
RJ Cooper: I need about 12 to 20 seconds of an actor's voice and I can, you know, put
BJ: in. Same thing with the imagery too, like the police car pulling up and things like that. You feel like that looks good too?
James: Uh-huh.
BJ: That's awesome.
RJ Cooper: Only problem with the footage as of right now when we're recording this is the color space and the size of the videos aren't quite up to snuff for our feature films. Yeah. So it has to be kind of more in a limited use for the visuals at this point, like a stock shot would be. Yeah, yeah. Because you've got to upscale them from 2K or whatever, and color space-wise they're 400.
James: Yeah, but stock footage doesn't come in the right color space either. It's not shot rec 709 or flat.
RJ Cooper: I guess at this point, individually, I wouldn't use it for an entire sequence. So not yet, anyways. And at this point right now, we use the AI to do mock-ups for all this stuff. So even voiceover, it's for mock-up purposes. Then I label it all and I send it into the studio and they review it and redo it or whatever. So right now VFX and from my point of view, they still have jobs because they got to redo it anyways.
James: Yeah, I mean they didn't get rid of the VFX department at Disney. They just cut like a hundred people. Okay. Because I'm sure the previs they don't need anymore. They can do it with the
RJ Cooper: AI. And from my point of view also, just the last bit of advice that I learned from artist Steven Silver, because as you know, in the animation industry, a lot of artists are having a hard time surviving. And I was in that industry for a while. I had a mentor at Disney Television Animations. I was kind of thinking about becoming a storyboard artist for a while. But anyways, his point of view was like, all of you artists out there, which would be you and me, stick together. Stay together. Make your little films. Keep making things. Keep going. The industry, at a certain point, we don't need Warner Brothers to go make a movie. We can just go do it. And we're going to see more and more and more and more of that. So us staying together, you and your friends, whoever's out there, stay with your peeps. Keep making stuff. Recently there was a movie that
James: was made for $200,000 that they negotiated a deal, No Stars, a horror movie. They negotiated a deal with AMC theaters just directly. They got in touch with them. Oh, I saw that. And it played all the AMC theaters and it made $4.5 million at the box office. Right, right, right. Without P&A, they didn't spend any P&A or anything like that. So I think that, you know, if you can get it out there and you can build it, you know, obviously that I live by that philosophy, like things can happen. I do think that... When it comes to technology, I think a lot of people get scared. And I do think that I don't like that it's getting rid of jobs or harming people's livelihood, but I also feel that the technology won't go away. So if we don't embrace it and find ways to use it the right way, they will then shove it down our throats the wrong way. So if we don't want to get left
BJ: behind not Knowing how to do it. I 100% agree. You've got to use the AI for your benefit, just for the fact it's not going anywhere. They definitely have won the war on that, I believe.
RJ Cooper: But as long as you're out there and you're telling stories that are meaningful, that have a point of view, we're not just creating a monster movie to create a monster movie. It's got to have a point. You know what I'm saying? Anyone can make that. Anyone can make a robot movie at this point now. We're getting to the point where anyone can make a Transformers movie or whatever it is with special effects. But if you don't have something to say, none of us are going to care. So I would say to people out there, focus on that. What are you saying as an individual? Find the heart. Yeah.
James: Well, RJ, it was a pleasure having you on. Thank you so much for coming on. This
RJ Cooper: has been interesting. Thank you so much. I've never done one of these before. Awesome. Thank you so much. I
BJ: love you, RJ. Much appreciated, man. Thank you.