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Welcome to Make Your Passion Pay, hosted by LuAnn Buechler, a seasoned leader with a master’s degree in Hospitality Administration and a recipient of the TLC Award for Leadership. This podcast is designed for business owners who have left toxic environments to create their own thriving workplaces but find themselves struggling with team building and mindset. Join LuAnn as she shares insights and strategies to help you cultivate joy and a positive mindset in your business and personal life. Drawing from her experience working with renowned leaders like Dr. Ivan Misner, LuAnn guides you in building a supportive community and mastering the art of people management. Each episode offers practical advice and inspiring stories to empower you to transform your work environment into one that reflects your values and passions. Tune in to discover how to lead with joy, foster meaningful connections, and truly make your passion pay.
Hey, welcome everybody to another episode of Make Your Passion Pay podcast, where we talk about the six seasons and the playbook to make your passions pay. As a reminder, those are clarity, connection, community, collaboration, creativity, and commitment. I think we're going to talk a little bit about commitment today, starting with beginning with the end in mind. Super excited to have Scherrie Prince with us today. Scherrie is an attorney who helps entrepreneurs and business owners stop treating their business plan and their estate plan as two separate documents. She works at the intersection of ownership, governance, and succession to help founders build a moat around everything they work hard to create through her legal practice and her book, Build the Moat First. Yes, you're hearing me right—Build the Moat First. Scherrie shows small business owners how the structural decisions they make today determine whether they keep control, protect their assets, and build something that truly lasts. Yeah, talk about beginning with the end in mind, Scherrie. That is exactly what you're talking about, and I say that to business owners, but you come at it from a much more legal perspective of how to protect your business, correct?
(00:04:10.115) Scherrie L. Prince: Yeah. And I mean, even personally, I had like three things that were pivotal in my life that really led me down this track. And you know, it's kind of like when you're hungry, you go to the refrigerator. It's like, oh, maybe we need to go to the grocery store. You don't just get in the car and drive aimlessly. You have an idea for where you're going to go. You may have a short list, but you have a plan. So in life and in business, you should have a plan. I just work with founders to reverse engineer that based on where they would like to be at a certain period of time in their business and in their life.
(00:04:44.615) LuAnn Buechler: Yeah, see, and is that what I see as business? As a business coach, business owners jump in, hang out their shingle, and go to work a lot of times, right? They're talented in a skill or a service, and they're leaving a toxic work environment. They're not thinking about the bigger picture; they're just thinking about getting out of what's not working and starting what they think is better. So where do they begin, Scherrie? Where do they begin to think about the end first?
(00:05:18.415) Scherrie L. Prince: Well, okay, so there is simply—let's say that I have a goal to retire at 55. What is it going to take for me to live on at 55? You know, am I going to be in that sandwich generation, taking care of kids and parents? Have I made a decision that I want time for freedom, that I want financial freedom, that I just want to travel? So, okay, 55, I need to make X amount of dollars per month to maintain a certain style of living. So, okay, what does that take today? How far away am I? We look at that. But one of the very basic things you have to do is—and I say start with your umbrella. Your umbrella is going to be your estate plan, whether that is a will-centered estate plan or a trust-centered estate plan. Because if you do not have a plan for your assets in the case that you pass away, that you become...
(00:06:07.915) LuAnn Buechler: capacitated
(00:06:08.415) Scherrie L. Prince: ...or disabled, the state has a plan for you. And the plan that the state has is probably not the plan that you want.
(00:06:17.815) LuAnn Buechler: Oh, I never thought of it that way. Right. Someone else has a plan for you if you don't, if you fail to plan. Who says that, financial
(00:06:28.715) Scherrie L. Prince: advisors,
(00:06:29.615) LuAnn Buechler: Right?
(00:06:30.015) Scherrie L. Prince: But I mean, I think about this. You know, you have people that, for whatever reason, may not be in contact with loved ones, who may be suffering from some sort of illness or disability, and they may be indigent. So the state has a plan to take care of people who may not be able to take care of themselves or who have passed away without a next of kin. Because you have to, and usually, if you do have somebody, even if it's a lost cousin or aunt that you may be able to pass something to, it won't get there unless you make a plan for it. So what I found in my practice is that I have business owners who, like you said, are gung-ho. They have a great product or service and they're just diving head first into their business. But depending on the type of business, especially in service-based businesses, if you are the bottleneck in the business or you're the juice, when you're doing well in the business and something happens to you, where's your business,
(00:07:25.715) LuAnn Buechler: Right? Absolutely. I have a client who had a work accident, and in that moment in time where he literally could not work, he was in the hospital. We had this conversation then. You know, it might have been too late had something more tragic happened to him, but I'm like, what's gonna happen here? Wife and family, if something happens to you in your business, they know nothing about your business.
(00:08:00.415) Scherrie L. Prince: Something very similar happened, he passed away, and his wife came to see me to settle his affairs. And so, you know, during his lifetime, he was a HVAC guy, you know, made lots of money, did very well for the family. She thought, when he passed away, that she had this very profitable business. He had not saved a dime. They were living job to job. She had no idea. There was no savings and there was no business. He was the sole proprietor, you know, he would come to me from time to time for contracts and advice, but there was nothing to it. There was no asset to sell. It wasn't like he had a franchise or business model and employees. He was the business. So, these are some of the things that I try to work with founders on to make sure that if there is a legacy, we're leaving it the way we want it left, and there's something for the next generation.
(00:08:49.115) LuAnn Buechler: Yeah, super important. Oh my goodness. And I really, I really see that. I'm just thinking of the people in my network right now who are business owners, and I'm fairly confident they're not thinking that far ahead, and yet you never know when your day comes, right? You've got to be prepared. I think it's possibly a more poignant point to make with them, to think about their families and what are they leaving for their family if something happens to them?
(00:09:21.815) Scherrie L. Prince: Exactly. And you know I talked about those three pivotal points in my life, and one was the passing of my mother and my grandparents, her parents. They had a 50-acre farm and they had five children. So, she died. My mother died before her parents. So my brother and I inherited her portion of their
(00:09:40.415) LuAnn Buechler: estate.
(00:09:40.615) Scherrie L. Prince: Well, not without a huge probate battle, because guess what, they didn't have a will or trust. And the state had a plan. Now my aunt and uncle did not agree with the plans. So we were in court fussing and fighting over something that should have been very simple. Very simple. But even without that, you know, part of looking at your estate plan in conjunction with your business plan, think about multiple marriages, going to his children, multiple divorces, bankruptcies, mergers. There are so many different types of exits and exodus, not just selling your business. It could be a reorganization where for a period of time, you're going to be there for continuity, but you're being bought out and you're interested, yeah, due to a divorce. So there are so many ways that your personal life and your estate plan affect your business, even while you're alive,
Thing that you would want to do. Because that's going to let us know what type of estate plan you have now if you do not have a will or a trust. That's okay. Before you ever call your attorney. You want to go ahead and pull out all of your investment accounts, your bank accounts. Look at who you're transfer on death. Beneficiaries are your payable on death beneficiaries. Those are things you can do without a financial advisor, an accountant or an attorney, right? Oh, life insurance as well, because life insurance are automatically passes outside of probate, but you don't want to have wife number
(00:12:54.760) LuAnn Buechler: one,
(00:12:55.060) Scherrie L. Prince: as the
(00:12:55.760) LuAnn Buechler: benefits here. If
(00:12:56.260) Scherrie L. Prince: you're on wife, number three. So, you know, these are some things you can do before you ever start your estate planning. And so once you have done those things, and even LuAnn, in some states, you can go to your tax collector's office and name who you like to have your vehicles when you pass away. And so those do not have to go through probate, and I am a huge advocate for a trust and set up a will because now, even though I'm going to attorney, you know, someone wants to pay me. Will, and then they want their kids to pay me to probate the will. They're going to glory, I'll do it. But I tell them, why not get a trust? So at the time you pass away, your family is just having your homegoing ceremony and the continuity of the transfer of the assets is not
(00:13:41.460) LuAnn Buechler: a concern
(00:13:41.960) Scherrie L. Prince: at that time because
(00:13:42.660) LuAnn Buechler: they're just celebrating your life. What is it trust versus a will and what does it take to have a trust?
(00:13:52.560) Scherrie L. Prince: I always think
(00:13:52.960) LuAnn Buechler: of people, lots of money.
(00:13:54.160) Scherrie L. Prince: having a trust. No, not just the average person. And there are so many different types of trusts. Now, if you are someone who is considered to have a high net worth, a lot of them have more than one trust. So when we talk about trusts, plural, there's not just one type of trust. It's like, you know, Snickers. I mean, you know, sneakers, you got Nike, you got Reebok, you got these. I mean, Hokas, everything. So there are so many different types of trusts. But you do not have to be a high net worth individual. It's all about protection, building a moat around what you have. And so, with the trust, the main goal for the trust for most people is asset protection and avoiding probate, because probate can get very expensive. And with a will, if you try to contest the will, oh my gosh, there are so many things that could be undone. But with a trust, if it's structured properly, you pay the initial fee, which you know is going to definitely be more than a will, but over time it's definitely not going to be. So that's, you know, that's how a trust is a little bit different, and a trust is more private. With a will, you actually go file that in the county courthouse, and so that's public record. Do you want everybody knowing what you're leaving to your family? Probably not.
(00:15:14.760) LuAnn Buechler: Not. Interesting. So what's the comparative
(00:15:21.660) Scherrie L. Prince: like cost investment? So, depending on how detailed it is, a will can be, and where you are living as well, a will be less than a thousand dollars, maybe 1,500. Just depends.
(00:15:35.460) LuAnn Buechler: And it trusts may be several thousand. Yeah. Still a minor difference by comparison to the value.
(00:15:45.460) Scherrie L. Prince: When
(00:15:45.760) LuAnn Buechler: The day comes, right? Definitely everything is spelled out and no need for probate. Yes, I had a family member who he and his brother owned the business and his brother suddenly passed away, and they didn't have any of this in
(00:16:03.260) Scherrie L. Prince: Place and it was a nightmare. Look what I tell you. People think it's almost like the insurance conversation.
(00:16:11.460) LuAnn Buechler: If I talk
(00:16:12.260) Scherrie L. Prince: About it, I'm going to die. Oh, conversation, you know, it's not a sexy conversation and it's also a conversation that I think people think they can get back to. You know, I have plenty of time to discuss
(00:16:23.560) LuAnn Buechler: this. It's not relevant right now. Yes, but I can
(00:16:28.060) Scherrie L. Prince: tell you.
(00:16:28.460) LuAnn Buechler: That's, and you never know, right? You just never know. So it will be a new conversation for me and my clients, for sure, too, because I cast a 10-year vision for them, with them, of where they want to be 10 years from now. And
(00:16:45.560) Scherrie L. Prince: this needs to be a piece of the puzzle for sure. Definitely. You mentioned your client
(00:16:50.660) LuAnn Buechler: who
(00:16:50.860) Scherrie L. Prince: was hospitalized? Well, my mom passed away at 36 and she had already been in the nursing home for three years prior to that, because she couldn't care for herself. So at 36 years old, who thinks they need long-term care insurance or any kind of coverage for assisted living? Those are things you don't think about because you always think you have more time. Now, she was not an entrepreneur, but think about how much more compounded that is for the family of an entrepreneur who does not have maybe a 401k or benefit plan or a job with paid time off. You know, these types of conversations are
(00:17:29.060) LuAnn Buechler: that much more important to an entrepreneur. Absolutely. You talk about the framework of four outcomes that every founder should build, and some c words in here, like my succeeds: control, continuity, protection, and legacy. Talk
(00:17:49.160) Scherrie L. Prince: more about each of those. Interesting, because they're the person that started the company, that they control the company. If you do not have the proper formalities for your company, you can lose control of that company, depending on the type of entity you have. If you do not regulate governance of that company, a creditor can literally come in and become a receiver of your company. So yes, you start the company, it may have your name, but if you are not doing the things that you're supposed to do, you can lose control. So, when we talk about the four outcomes, we talk about things that can affect your control of the business that you gave birth to. Continuity is the ability of the business to continue to operate in the event that you have one
(00:18:35.660) LuAnn Buechler: of these
(00:18:35.860) Scherrie L. Prince: outcomes
(00:18:37.160) LuAnn Buechler: and capacity
(00:18:38.360) Scherrie L. Prince: Death or disability. Yeah, protection. Can one claim or one bad event heal your entire business? What are you doing to start building this moat around your company now? And the moat is not a physical moat, like, you know, when you used to see movies with castles and stuff. No, it's your paperwork, it's your governance, it's your SOPs, your risk management in your company. And finally, legacy. What happens to your company when you are no longer there? And the legacy does not have to be with your family. You know what's going to happen to the shareholders, the investors, your clients, all those people that have a vested interest in your company. So those are the four things that we look at every time. You know, I work with clients and we approach these
(00:19:28.560) LuAnn Buechler: Outcomes and what they look like. So back to the LLC comment, right? I mean, we believe as business owners that is our protection. It says I own this business. But you're saying the LLC really is not
(00:19:45.660) Scherrie L. Prince: much protection at all. Think about what LLC is, it is a limited liability company, okay? It is registered in the state that you live in, okay? And if you don't even bow, your annual reports and do those things, what do they do that? Administratively, dissolve, you And so, you can have creditors who can come in and do what's called piercing, the corporate veil and reach into your personal Pockets, if you're not doing the things that you're supposed to do. So, when we look at control, the control is, I hate to say an illusion, but it is an illusion. If you do not prop yourself up with the proper safeguards
(00:20:23.560) LuAnn Buechler: And the formalities. Oh my
(00:20:26.860) Scherrie L. Prince: Goodness, it seems overwhelming. Well LuAnn, here's the good news: you don't have to know it all, you just need to know who to call. And you know one thing that I stress to my clients is you need to have
(00:20:41.560) LuAnn Buechler: a money
(00:20:41.860) Scherrie L. Prince: team. You know your money
(00:20:43.760) LuAnn Buechler: team
(00:20:44.160) Scherrie L. Prince: Those are your strategic advisors and believe it or not, these are not new people that you have to go look up online. If you are already in business, you should have
(00:20:56.660) LuAnn Buechler: Established.
(00:20:57.060) Scherrie L. Prince: Minimally a checking account. Okay, so find you a personal banker at the bank that you're already using that can help you grow your company and build a relationship with. If you have a house, a car, an apartment, anything, you're probably paying an insurance premium. Okay, now
(00:21:14.360) LuAnn Buechler: All
(00:21:14.960) Scherrie L. Prince: Insurance agents are not created equal, but whoever you're currently working with, see what types of products they offer and do they fit your business and your life? And you can grow. You know this person or another agent in your, you know, on your money team. Okay, your tax person. Now, most people have a tax preparer. That person is looking in the review window and just providing you with their report of the activity from the previous calendar year. You need a tax planner. So now is the time that you start asking this person questions and see if they're qualified to do planning so that you don't
(00:21:52.760) LuAnn Buechler: have this
(00:21:53.060) Scherrie L. Prince: huge tax bill when the year comes up. That person's on your money team.
(00:21:57.060) LuAnn Buechler: So do you see that
(00:21:58.160) Scherrie L. Prince: They're already there, but you have to put them together, so I'm like the quarterback for your money team. I work with your existing accountant, attorney, CPA, and I help them run plays so they're no longer working in silos, but I'm putting them on the same page. And we're
(00:22:18.060) LuAnn Buechler: all working together and trying to get this done for you. I love that. I love that.
(00:22:22.860) Scherrie L. Prince: Find yourself a
(00:22:23.760) LuAnn Buechler: quarterback for the money team. Yes, one of my accountants historically, when I started my business, said you
(00:22:31.560) Scherrie L. Prince: need
(00:22:31.760) LuAnn Buechler: to have a board of advisors, is what she called it, and people that are in areas that you're not an expert in, and get them together. They're not people that, I mean, you're typically paying your insurance agent and the others, right? But she even said, you know, you can find people who are in those fields who just care and will give you advice. But certainly, if you've got a business, you need to have a money team that understands
(00:22:58.460) Scherrie L. Prince: that, the Legacy
(00:22:59.960) LuAnn Buechler: Picture, right? Definitely, which means you as a business owner need to be able to articulate what that legacy looks like, what you want it to look like, which there comes back to the work that I do in helping people create that vision of their future and what they want it to look like. And I really ask them to dream big, right? And put that out
(00:23:25.760) Scherrie L. Prince: there and then find the right people to help you get there. And you said it best earlier about people that are busy working in their business. Okay? So if you're so busy working in your business, you're talking to these people at different times, they're not hearing what you just told the other person, but they need to hear it. So I help people get together minimally once a year, but we try to get together once a quarter on Zoom, and that's, you know, it's almost
(00:23:49.960) LuAnn Buechler: like your board of directors
(00:23:50.860) Scherrie L. Prince: meeting or your board of advisors meeting, right, and anybody? Yeah, they're on the same page and when there's this synergy, like, oh yeah. So you're working on that for LuAnn, okay. Well, I'm working on this for her when you know let me give you this information and this is going to help you do that. And so, you see how much faster you can go
(00:24:10.060) LuAnn Buechler: because now everybody's on the same page. Sure. Absolutely excellent advice. So, and you also talked about how the culture of your company plays a role in your legacy. Talk more about that. I'm big on culture and
(00:24:29.260) Scherrie L. Prince: In my work with people, it—so think about this: if you have a culture where people are protective of leadership and they are respectful of leadership, they are more likely to defend leadership. So the way that you build out your teams, the way that you select your employees, and one example that
(00:24:50.260) LuAnn Buechler: I
(00:24:50.460) Scherrie L. Prince: love is, um, the Chick-fil-A model. Truett Cathy created Chick-fil-A, and he created it as a Christian company. To this day, they're still closed on Sunday. When you go through the drive-through or visit one of the locations, they have done a great job with greeting you, and there's just, in my opinion, a certain feel of happiness and joy when you're there. When they say 'my pleasure,' it's like, I can't believe they're excited about being here. Even with the benefits, they have benefits to help you go through college scholarships, they have fair wages, insurance, and it's all about family. So when you're building a culture that supports family, that supports positive values, and they don't have to be Christian
(00:25:32.460) LuAnn Buechler: values
(00:25:33.060) Scherrie L. Prince: but positive ideals. Sure. Those are the types of cultures that people rally to and rally around. When you talk about a moat, think about those employees—almost envision them standing in front of your castle as your moat to protect your company. If there are things that need to happen in terms of training, retention, or even things that are bad on the horizon, employees in a positive culture are more likely to be proactive instead of reactive as those things happen and protect the company. So that's all part of your
(00:26:10.960) LuAnn Buechler: Mode. It's not all just legal documents. Right. Yeah, thinking about that client who was hospitalized, and literally it was a question of could the team run without him, right? And
(00:26:23.660) Scherrie L. Prince: you have
(00:26:24.060) LuAnn Buechler: to have your team be able to run without you. And really, that's the freedom that business owners are asking for when they start a business and then they forget to build it, I think. Right? And really because it's like their baby
(00:26:41.760) Scherrie L. Prince: and they hold on too tight. He says he probably
(00:26:46.960) LuAnn Buechler: has
(00:26:47.260) Scherrie L. Prince: forgotten the address to Amazon. Set quarters every time I see him. He's out vacation somewhere and I love it. I mean, I love it but he has built a company. You know, you always see that meme of him in his garage selling books, out of his garage with Amazon spray painted, I think on the wall or something. But now, he's built in that freedom. He's hired competent people. They have systems. One of the
(00:27:08.960) LuAnn Buechler: best
(00:27:09.160) Scherrie L. Prince: logistics chains ever. Yeah, ever.
(00:27:13.260) LuAnn Buechler: And so, he doesn't have to be there every day. Yeah. Yeah, that's the ultimate goal, right? That's all to build that. And I believe too, you know, if you want to pass that on to someone else and can continue the look and feel
(00:27:31.360) Scherrie L. Prince: of the
(00:27:32.060) LuAnn Buechler: company like a Chick-fil-A, right? That your team has to be fully engaged in a
(00:27:38.460) Scherrie L. Prince: culture that they can carry forward. You have to have that buy-in, but there's going to have to be the respect, the care, and putting together things that are family friendly, human friendly. You know, there are some places people wake up every day and hate to go to work. Could you imagine just hating it? But out of necessity, I got to go to this place. So when the culture is positive,
(00:28:05.160) LuAnn Buechler: I think you get better outcomes. Yes. So you have a book coming out, as do I. Mine's about joyful workplaces, which is just what we're talking about creating, and yours is about
(00:28:19.160) Scherrie L. Prince: building. The moat around your business. It's about building the moat and I'm so excited. It's my first book and it's not a legal manual. You know, people think because I'm an attorney it's all this legal jargon. No. There are some very practical things you can do, like the same day you start reading. Like we start out with baby steps, like hey, have you considered this? You know, we talk here about beneficiary designations and things you can do for free. Yeah, yeah.
(00:28:47.260) LuAnn Buechler: And you can read the book in a weekend, free, immediately. So there's
(00:28:51.860) Scherrie L. Prince: practical
(00:28:53.060) LuAnn Buechler: Actions you can take.
(00:28:54.560) Scherrie L. Prince: Yes, from reading
(00:28:56.460) LuAnn Buechler: The book, yes. And that's the goal, and then it's going to give you the mindset about how to bring together
(00:29:03.460) Scherrie L. Prince: your money team,
(00:29:04.860) LuAnn Buechler: Right? Yes. And have them help you build the legacy that is
(00:29:12.560) Scherrie L. Prince: In your heart. That's really, and we have questions because, you know, I believe in interviewing people. I talk to folks for a living. So, um, sometimes you don't know exactly what to ask someone. You think because, okay, she's a nurse or he's a doctor, he can fix everything. Well, no, he's an oncologist. I stumped my toe, I don't need him. I need somebody else. So I have, you know, practical questions for your money team to make sure that they're aligned with
(00:29:39.660) LuAnn Buechler: what you need to be
(00:29:40.860) Scherrie L. Prince: aligned with for your business, right?
(00:29:43.260) LuAnn Buechler: So helpful things in there. Absolutely, absolutely. So you have a podcast too. You talk for a living, you know,
(00:29:52.860) Scherrie L. Prince: In addition, tell us about your podcast. The podcast is the Play Big Faster podcast. And, you know, I call the folks who listen the disruptors because we are always trying to find ways to disrupt business and find innovative ways to grow and scale. In each episode, we hope you walk away with something actionable that you can do, kind of like the book where, you know, okay, you listen to one episode, man, I learned this, I'm gonna go implement it right now. And so that's the goal, and it's really targeted for early founders with under 250 employees. But I think anyone who's interested in
(00:30:29.160) LuAnn Buechler: Entrepreneurship could get something from every episode. Awesome.
(00:30:32.860) Scherrie L. Prince: Excellent. Play Big Faster.
(00:30:36.960) LuAnn Buechler: Play Big Faster podcast. Well, of course, we'll make sure it's in the show notes, along with her links to social media. The book will be released, or for pre-sale in August, which is when this should be released as well, this podcast, and so it should be available when you hear this. And so look
(00:30:59.160) Scherrie L. Prince: For Build the Remote First
(00:31:01.360) LuAnn Buechler: Build a remote-first, not
(00:31:04.960) Scherrie L. Prince: Did I say remote?
(00:31:05.960) LuAnn Buechler: It's fine. From our first interview, you know that's what it was translated by
(00:31:13.060) Scherrie L. Prince: The AI, you know, recorder.
(00:31:15.360) LuAnn Buechler: Oh my gosh, that is translated. And so there I go
(00:31:20.960) Scherrie L. Prince: I slipped up
(00:31:21.560) LuAnn Buechler: Because I read that earlier today. Build them out. First build them up, build your culture, build a money team, and to build a team of employees that got your back. Yeah. And buy in into that culture. So important. All of this is so important. Scherrie, thank you so much, really encourage my listeners to also listen to your podcast, so be sure and do that. She has valuable, valuable content to share with you. I'm teaching people how to make money, live in their passion, and Scherrie is going to teach you how to
(00:31:57.760) Scherrie L. Prince: protect that which you build.
(00:32:00.060) LuAnn Buechler: Thank you so much for having me. Everybody go out and live your passion and protect your money and what you're building. Have a great day.