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S6 EP19 | Somehow even after grossing over $800 million, Disney never made a National Treasure 3 with Nicholas Cage. The Studio Demands that this be remedied.
Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands...MORE FILMS! It's an exercise in creative thinking where they will challenge themselves to conceptualize, pitch, and craft a film based on the stipulations of a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. | Sixfive Media
Hello and welcome to the studio demands that an exercise in creative thinking where we will conceptualize, pitch and craft a film or series based on the demands from one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephile. Cinephile. I tried to get past you.
Jim:You did. Well, you did the first one.
T.C.:As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time and we like to believe that we could meet any demand thrown at us. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I am TC DeWitt and joining me as always is Jim, pardon the interruption, Berzelik. Jim, you can you can you can join me. Jim.
T.C.:Jim. Oh my god. You're gonna leave me hanging here? Okay. So anyway, I realized you're you're just gonna sit there.
Jim:You got more to read. I
T.C.:no. That's the end of the intro.
Jim:You started talking. You interrupted yourself
T.C.:As always.
Jim:To incredulously scold me.
T.C.:No. I No. I interrupted you. Just now. We will be the screeners
Jim:finished you finished what you were saying, and then you started talking. Yeah. And then you said, you really you're really gonna do this. You you interrupted yourself Okay. To go.
Jim:Go. I'm done with the intro.
T.C.:I did the whole intro.
Jim:Now do the episode. No. I'm not gonna do the episode without you.
T.C.:I'm here. So this is your middle name. I'm sorry that I I I'm hanging my head in shame right now. This is wild.
Jim:No. It was a fun bit. I just I I don't what do you want me to say? Oh, you interrupted me good.
T.C.:No. No. Actually, I do discussion. The reason I did this is someone messaged us recently because they're they're listening to our whole series, and they got
Jim:to the
T.C.:point where overlord became
Jim:Too much?
T.C.:No. No. No. Not Oh. Not too much.
T.C.:That's a conversation right here. The overlord started becoming a habit because you did it once or twice, then you didn't do it. And then I pointed out that you didn't do it. And then you said, well, I don't wanna make it my thing, and I made you make it your thing, and then it stayed your thing. And so now, I you know, the fans might revolt.
Jim:I kinda like it.
T.C.:You like it. Okay. Let's let's try again.
Jim:I haven't liked it for, like, four years now, but it's yeah. You've insisted on it.
T.C.:Giggity giggity. Hello, and welcome to the studio. Demands an exercise in creative thinking, where we will
Jim:conceptualize, pitch, and craft a
T.C.:film or series based on the demands of one of you listeners acting as a hypothetical Hollywood overlord. Acting. No. As professional screenwriters ourselves and massive cinephiles, we talk movies all the time.
Jim:Screenwriters. And
T.C.:we'd like to believe that we could meet any demand thrown at us. We will be your screenwriters for this episode. I'm T. C. Dwight.
T.C.:Joining me as always is Jim. I'm sorry about that. What? Bruce Alec.
Jim:What is happening? I'm not doing like a this isn't
T.C.:a happy death day all over again.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Literally, it was just I Okay.
Jim:You okay.
T.C.:In the heat of the moment, I interrupted you.
Jim:And that's fine. It's fun.
T.C.:Yeah. Good.
Jim:But then and and you and we got through that. Mhmm. And then we then we did a bit where you you paused and wanted me to react, and I didn't react. I remember I was there. Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. And and then you started Yeah. Which was fine. I wanted you to start and get to a conversation. Sure.
Jim:But then you interrupted yourself to come back
T.C.:To apologize
Jim:to about you. What we're what was happening. Yeah. And but so what's what's the demand for this episode? What's going on?
T.C.:That was three minute three and a half minutes of absolute bullshit. Thank you, everyone. Our listeners have given us demands from studios literally all over the world. And you listening now, you can let me know if Jim should keep saying overlord. Do you wanna keep saying overlord?
Jim:So there was more.
T.C.:No. I don't get to that till after the conversation. You can send us any demand you'd like, and we will have to meet it right here on the spot. And when we reach the end of the episode, if we've done our jobs, we will have pitched a full script and story meeting or even exceeding those demands. And when the end of the season comes and it is quickly approaching, your demands could have helped us craft a script that will be greenlit by the fans for the finale.
T.C.:Thank you everyone who has been submitting. Please keep them coming. Jim, the end of the season is approaching. Now this is by next maybe because we technically have two more mainline episodes of the season before we get into, our three episode wrap up, which can includes the crossover of the AZP. We're getting towards vote time.
T.C.:So the conversation can now begin. People, if they want if you wanna start campaigning to us to narrow down Yeah. The if you wanna start narrowing down your
Jim:Lobbyists lobbyists, start lobbying.
T.C.:Yeah. Start lobbying.
Jim:I like steak.
T.C.:Yeah. And and steak
Jim:dinners and cigars and scotch.
T.C.:You can probably read it, in the discord are gonna be the spots to really start your lobbying and campaigning. But, of course, you can message us. But that's being said, today's demand demands, plural.
Jim:Oh.
T.C.:Comes from first is Marissa from two s's not one studios. In 02/2004, Nicolas Cage stole the declaration of independence and grossed $350,000,000. In 02/2007, he kidnapped the president and earned $460,000,000.
Jim:That's weird.
T.C.:The what's that?
Jim:Well, because we were we were watching those movies Yeah. And we were talking about them, and we were talking about, well, why didn't they make a third? Yeah. I will probably continue that. I'll let you finish the demand.
T.C.:The fact that a third national treasure movie did not happen in or about 2010 is baffling. Nick Cage doesn't exactly say no to a script, and Disney and Disney has no history of leaving money on the table and not beating a horse of a franchise to literal death. Jesus. Yeah. And yet, they failed to strike when the iron was hot.
T.C.:National Treasure Edge of History did so poorly, none of you remembered it existed on Disney plus in 2022. Our studio demands a Nicolas Cage, Diane Kruger, Justin Bartha, National Treasure three National Treasure three, Maintain the historical treasure hunting and make a movie that grosses $570,000,000. Mhmm. Tall order.
Jim:Okay. Inflation will take care
T.C.:that. Inflation will take care that. And then from Justin at incoherent grunting pictures, National Treasure came out in 02/2004. Marissa just told us that. Pay attention.
Jim:Marissa with two s's.
T.C.:Marissa's. Yeah. National Treasure Book of Secrets came out in 02/2007. Why wasn't there a National Treasure three in 2010? My studio is making that happen right now, here and now, by asking you two to speculate a third film that of that year.
T.C.:Keeping the main cast, keep the American history angle. My studio demands it. Thanks for taking my demand. Okay.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Marissa, Justin, because we're in the last months of the year where search engine optimization and fun episode ideas become weirdly crisscrossed and whatnot, I, on a whim, told Jim. I was like, let's let's let's grab we have a couple of demands that have come through that we've ignored for seasons now.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:And, there were a few others of you who had National Treasure was one that's popped up quite a bit since season one. Oh. So I was like, you know what? Let's do that. Let's do let's watch the first National Treasure and maybe the second one, and then just take one of these demands.
T.C.:And here we are. Both Marissa with two s's and Justin have asked
Jim:us With incoherent grunting.
T.C.:With incoherent, have asked us to do a national treasure three. Okay. Justin gave the stipulation that we do it in 2010.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Mercer did not. I don't I I'll what do you think? Should we imagine this in the past or imagine it now? Because that's going to change things.
Jim:How do you think it's gonna change that? Because I I think we can I think we can have both? I think we can make those demands.
T.C.:I I think
Jim:I think whatever plot we come up with isn't going to hinge on the time period.
T.C.:Right. The the fifteen year difference between two. I think that as well. Like, we we there might be something we come up with that suggests would be better in 2010, but I'd say we don't worry about that right now. I think we can just conceptualize what a third movie should be.
T.C.:Ultimately, why I think it matters is the age gap.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:The difference between Nicolas Cage, Dan Kruger, and Justin Barthel fifteen years ago. Right? Fifteen? Yeah.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. It's gonna be they're older now, so we're looking at technically a legacy sequel if we'd set it now. I don't think we necessarily need to worry about that at this point in time. So, Justin, we're not disregarding your demand per se. We're just gonna set it over here for now.
T.C.:Jim, you don't have a love for these movies. You don't dislike them.
Jim:The most of the audience wasn't there when we did the commentary track for National Charge. You can go listen to it. Yeah. And I am quite down on it through the watching. And then at the end, we we we come back, and I have a a different opinion.
Jim:Mhmm. Our watching of we just we watch both of them. I am much warmer on both of the both of these movies on this franchise now.
T.C.:Yep. And they have my feelings about it were similar to I dropped it in the commentary. I'll say here, Patrick Willems does a nice video essay about it's okay for just movies to be movies. You don't have to and National Treasure was his, like, comfort viewing movie.
Jim:Sure. Because it's just a it's just a good movie. And I I I see that now. Yeah. So yeah.
Jim:I like I like these movies okay. I'm not I'm not crazy passionate about them. Mhmm. There we go.
T.C.:There we go. Okay. So the opportunity to make a third one for those who might need a reminder, the first one.
Jim:Know, that's the wrong attitude. I always come I I complain about the the filmmakers who've gone into interviews and like, I didn't really care for the friends like, then why did you take the job? No. I love National Treasure and I'm excited to be here and to talk about it and to make a new one. Good.
Jim:I'm on board.
T.C.:Good. Well, the first one, in order to prevent the declaration of independence being stolen by Sean Bean's villainous Ian.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:In order to find a hidden treasure that the Knights Templar and the Masons hid away in America.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:A big gold chest full of bouillon from centuries past. You know? Nicolas Cage decides to steal it and and and follow the clues to find find it, and and who does? The second one, we learn that the confederacy, not just assassinating Abraham Lincoln, but they are also going to find the hidden treasure of that Sibullah. Sibullah, the city of gold
Jim:of gold. Hidden city of gold.
T.C.:In order to finance the continued civil war. Mhmm. And they disgraced the name of Ed Harris's character disgraces the name of the Gates family, Benjamin Franklin Gates and Patrick Gates and the Gates family, in order to instigate him to find city of the city of gold. Yeah. And he does.
T.C.:So what to do now? We have to getting to play with American history.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:I'm curious if anything springs to your mind.
Jim:Yes. I I I didn't know what the demands are gonna be. I assumed something in the realm of make another national treasure.
T.C.:I'm glad to see it's literally make a third one with Nick Cage. Sure. So now let's let's discuss. Where does your mind go with this?
Jim:The first place I go, I I wanna know what the McGuffin is. I wanna know what they're chasing down.
T.C.:Sure. Yeah.
Jim:And the first thing that occurred to me in thinking about this is the Fountain Of Youth.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Then so then it's not so much finding like a gold gold they've already found two giant treasure chests. Right?
Jim:Well, we don't have to say what the fountain of youth is. They they search for the fountain of youth in pirates of The Caribbean. Right. Pirates of The Caribbean, pirates of The Caribbean, whatever, and pirates. Yeah.
Jim:But our fountain of youth doesn't have to be that. In fact, it probably shouldn't be. National treasure after two movies has there is nothing mystical. Mhmm. There there's there's a little bit of super science sounds extraordinary.
T.C.:Almost steampunk super science.
Jim:Yeah. Basically, the lenses. They they do the the the special glasses.
T.C.:And there's booby traps with, like, a lot of gears and ropes and
Jim:all that. Oh, I see what you mean mean, but you're referring to the that for what I don't count as I'm thinking of paranormal Mhmm. Weirdness.
T.C.:Right. And then
Jim:And and the the only the only fictional science that I I mean, I guess I guess what you're saying, the the booby traps, like, did they take I guess, I see what you're saying.
T.C.:Pirates of the Caribbean on stranger tides went after the fountain youth. The search for the holy Grail is a bit, you know, seeking endless life kind of, as well. And National Treasure certainly was developed under the idea of give us one of them Indiana Joneses. Mhmm. But I to your point, this series has not given us any fantastical supernatural elements.
T.C.:So going after the fountain of youth, Benjamin being like, okay. Well, that's right. Well, it's not actually like a fountain of youth. It's the idea of it. Right?
T.C.:Like, he could have some sort of historical explanation for what it actually is. Right? Is that or are you suggesting
Jim:we would No. I I don't want it to be paranormal. I don't I don't want him to immediately be, like, know about he will know about the legend of it, but I don't I don't think he would like and maybe he would speculate. I think he shouldn't be the expert here. I wouldn't want it because because it is so weird and out there
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:That he'd be like, I don't I don't believe in that kind of stuff. Right. I believe that maybe it was this. Basically, I I think it would be fun if Riley was the one who had more knowledge
T.C.:Oh, certainly.
Jim:On this.
T.C.:They did make him much more of a conspiracy nut
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Book secrets. Yeah. He you know, Area 51 and all that. There there is what has been suggested as a seed of an idea for what the third I third movie might be.
Jim:Oh, and actually that that was it was the end of two is what gave me this the the notion of the fountain of youth.
T.C.:The fountain of youth. Well, in in in am I right in saying that when there's the page 47 Yeah.
Jim:In the
T.C.:books the presidential book of secrets Yeah. Benjamin looks at it. The president says, you know, what did you what did say? And he says life altering or life changing. Yeah.
T.C.:Life altering. Did that somehow trigger oh.
Jim:Yes. That that's what triggered it. Yeah. Okay. So So maybe maybe Ben Ben Gates does know all about it.
T.C.:Okay. I'd like because that that sort of is a is a hanging thread of an off handed, like, what was on page 47? Let us speculate. Do you you want to utilize that as possibly the
Jim:That's where my mind first went. Mhmm. It doesn't mean that that's what it has to be. That's that's not what we have to go after. I'm willing to hear other
T.C.:other that they're chasing down. I don't know if family youth is pretty strong of an idea, because I I don't want it to be aliens. I don't want Area 51 to come into into play here. Because if we're gonna deal with American history, I like the idea of American they used the founding fathers and the revolutionary era, and they used the civil war era. When the further away from that we get towards the twentieth century and the 20 century, I'm less interested.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:But at the same time, with the MacGuffin, there there can come other historical things like the JFK assassination. And if the Fountain Of Youth and the JFK assassination are somehow linked in some capacity, we might have some threads that we can start tying together.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:I mean, I don't wanna I don't wanna do the moon landing as fake unless you think that's an area to go towards. Yeah.
Jim:No. I I wouldn't wanna do the the moon landing as fake. I wouldn't oh, my mind does immediately start going paranormal and supernatural with stuff, unfortunately, because I want to connect in some way page 47 to aliens to area 51 because Roswell. For the for the dumbest reason. Well, because, yes, because Roswell took place in 1947.
Jim:Yeah. But that's that's not a super strong connection. Yeah. So And also, as far as the Fountain of Youth goes, I don't know enough about Ponce de Leon to know how we can incorporate that.
T.C.:That into into the American history Yeah. The idea that, like, well, the I mean, oh, Fountain of Youth also was in Jungle Cruise. That was another
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Movie that of recent that dealt with the found a youth. So well okay. So let's set found a youth aside over here with what else did I put over here earlier? Oh, the 2010. We're gonna put the found a youth by 2010 over here.
T.C.:Can you think of any other MacGuffins? Right? I'm not I'm saying that for both of us just because I'm thinking as I'm speaking because dead air is not interesting to listen to.
Jim:No. And here it comes.
T.C.:What was the first treasure? It was the the Knights Templar treasure. Right?
Jim:Yeah. That the founding fathers stole from Europe. Well, I I I guess the the well, they said the Masons stole from Europe and brought to The US. Yeah.
T.C.:And married. So what are some other national treasures?
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Like, that's that that can be, treasures that, like, we have like, I don't know. I I probably should have given this some thought before entering this pitch meeting.
Jim:No. That's okay.
T.C.:Because the the so I I didn't watch the show, but I decided to read the entire synopsis of what the show was about.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:And it was about a treasure in the bayou in in Louisiana, and it didn't it didn't really have the the impact of a national treasure. It felt more like a local treasure. But Harvey Keitel's in the show in a small role because he's a Mason, but in the show, he's he's kind of suffering from early stages of dementia.
Jim:Oh, no.
T.C.:Riley's in the show as well briefly, and Catherine J. Jones played the villainous. Oh. But it's just a bunch of 20 smooching and chasing treasure.
Jim:It's a CW show.
T.C.:Yeah. Kinda. So, like, what okay. So the I I will always anytime American history comes up, I always think of Tesla and Einstein and their involvement in American history. And I know you always bump against it because you wanna you have a very but I've managed to get there a few times in, yeah, in in in one way or another.
Jim:Well, that also moves really far into the twentieth century.
T.C.:Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Jim:So Right. So, like, well, like, what other treasures could could they have stolen and made national treasures?
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:And it probably should be the Masons doing it. So, like, the idea of they stole a bunch of Nazi gold. Oh, you mean a bunch of gold that the Nazis stole? Yeah. Well, let's think of
T.C.:the first movie. So they stole that was a a a cache of of treasures over the course of many
Jim:It was the Templars
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Who had raided much of Europe and and even more importantly, the Middle East.
T.C.:And to to Benjamin
Jim:Took their own Yeah. Treasury. Yeah.
T.C.:And to Benjamin's credit, when he finds that treasure at the end of the first one, he's like, we need to spread this to all the the international museums. This isn't an American treasure. This an international treasure. Yeah. So maybe there's something like the lost library of Alexandria that the books were legend says that that volumes from Alexandria were were protected and have been passed along, and that's the treasure they're looking for.
T.C.:So then it's this this ancient history that could be saved again.
Jim:It could. So my my concern Mhmm. Is that that is not an it doesn't start with an American
T.C.:Well, neither the first one. The knights brought it here.
Jim:No. Well, but the knights didn't bring it here. The masons brought it here. And the masons do, like, historically connect directly to the templars. Yes.
Jim:There's relationship. And the Masons were a very big deal amongst our founding fathers Mhmm. And and early America. So it that's how this international treasure.
T.C.:Right. I'm saying we could do that again. That is
Jim:You're saying we can make up a reason Yes. That the library of Alexandria Is is here. Exactly. The the only thing like, it's the Masons again.
T.C.:Right. And and
Jim:the They they they did it again.
T.C.:They did it again. Or that there was a
Jim:There's a second there's a second Mason Masonic
T.C.:Or that there was a a division, like a group within the Masons who splintered off. And oh god. I mean, I always love looking at agent three fifty five as a character. I know I bring her up often, but, like, there's we could connect back to the revolutionary war. Or we do we do World War two because you had suggested Nazi gold, But, yes, that gold was stolen by the Nazis.
T.C.:Fuck those guys.
Jim:The So but if if that were the case, it would be a much more recent
T.C.:Right.
Jim:National treasure. So we're not gonna have ancient traps and
T.C.:stuff. Right. Right. And that's that's just drone noodles right now.
Jim:Sure. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. I'm trying to think of, like, the crown the crown jewels of
Jim:It's too ridiculous, but we have a giant store of cheese. We have a mountain full of cheese.
T.C.:In America?
Jim:Yes.
T.C.:We have a cheese mountain.
Jim:Yeah. Go on. Because during I think it was during the depression, they started pay or maybe coming out of the depression, they paid the government paid dairy farmers because otherwise they they held up the dairy industry. Mhmm. And to do that, they basically bought all of this milk and all this cheese, all this dairy, and they put it in a giant vault, which is basically an entire mountain.
Jim:Mhmm. And it's full of cheese. It's literal government cheese. Oh my god. It's full and it's full.
Jim:We have an an enormous cheese reserve.
T.C.:So, like, do we just have a surplus
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Of cheese? The like, the government converted?
Jim:Money to cheese. Money to cheese.
T.C.:Yes. Leave it to two boys from Wisconsin to give you a national treasure about cheese. The crown jewels of the Romanovs. Know
Jim:The Russian treasure?
T.C.:The Russian treasure. The missing Romanov treasure that was looted and hidden during their revolution, could lead to a globe trotting hunt connecting modern Russia and imperial secrets.
Jim:So I know in in in dead lands Mhmm. One of the things that happens is the Santa Ana Mhmm. Attacks the The US a couple times. Santa Ana and hang on. I wanna make sure this is real before I go and do another, iron shirt shirt.
T.C.:Thing. Yeah. I'm I'm trying to think of what the treasure could be so it's not just another room full of gold. I don't I don't think we need a third room full of gold. I wanna try to that's why I think, like, having a a collection of ancient texts.
Jim:So this is still on display, but Santa Ana, a prominent Mexican general and president, he lost his leg. Mhmm. Like he had a he had a wooden leg. Yeah. Well, think he lost his real leg fighting the French in 1838 and later, I'm just gonna finish reading the the full AI overview.
Jim:And later his cork and wooden artificial leg was captured by US troops at the Battle of Cerro Gordo in 1847 during the Mexican American War. The captured leg was displayed by Illinois troops and is now housed at the Illinois State Military Museum.
T.C.:Alright. So we're going
Jim:after That wouldn't be a fictional one. That or it's a real what I mean is it's not like a treasure hoard. It's an artifact that we already have.
T.C.:A singular artifact.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. I I I have I I've while you're while you're doing that, I was listening, but I also thought of another thing we could connect this to, the Alamo since, you know, move move.
Jim:That was my thought with the Fountain Of Youth.
T.C.:Okay. Yeah.
Jim:Okay. Connecting it to to the Alamo and and and stuff like that.
T.C.:Get found a youth, something so did some maybe something occurred at the thinking of our prologue, there's like, that the battle of the Alamo was actually there was a secret battle occurring for access to the the Fountain Of Youth?
Jim:Maybe it would be something like they were protecting something. They were protecting a certain secret. Mhmm.
T.C.:So the Elmo was nineteen thirty or 18
Jim:they all died Yeah. Keeping that secret.
T.C.:And the Elmo was 18 '30 something. 35, 36. Yeah. And and so you're saying that the Alamo is actually in within the Alamo was
Jim:We would have to go to the Alamo and find a clue.
T.C.:In the basement?
Jim:In the basement.
T.C.:There's no basement basement at at the the Alamo. Alamo. There
Jim:Ben Gates will find it.
T.C.:Yeah. Like, maybe there's, like, a secret archive. I is is the Fountain Of Youth like, okay. I think this works. Like, let's let's play with this.
T.C.:Is the Fountain Of Youth it's not gonna be supernatural. Right? We're gonna find some
Jim:I don't figurative way. It should be.
T.C.:Yeah. Okay. What could it be a metaphor for? What is the secret? Is it knowledge?
T.C.:I think I I go back to, like, the Library of Alexandria being being something that we might have could be a point of inspiration of. The fountain of youth is knowledge or it's a fountain of knowledge, and and it's actually a collection of not just the Library of Alexandria, but, like, texts and and tomes of from, like, Mesopotamia and Babylonia and, like, maybe maybe I don't know if that works into, like, why protect that information. I don't know. I don't know.
Jim:My my only my only hesitation is I don't, other than us making it, I don't really know of any connection between youth and knowledge. Okay. If anything, it's the reverse. Sure. Sure.
Jim:Sure. Like, knowledge equals maturity and Yeah. Whatnot. Okay. Yeah.
Jim:But right. Like, other otherwise, that's a a a fun idea. Like, that that could be where your stolen Library of Alexandria stuff is.
T.C.:Like, at the Fountain Of Youth? So
Jim:Something like that.
T.C.:The the attack on the Alamo, the fall of the Amazon Alamo. Mhmm. Never forget. Protecting the secret to a thing. Right?
T.C.:So I suppose what could that be? Like, what is the fountain of you? Let's like, if that's that's MacGuffin, that's what that's what we're trying to get to, what could it be?
Jim:First, could it could it just be some more gold?
T.C.:That's the thing I'm trying to avoid is, like, I it
Jim:could be. Could be very much a Yeah. I'd I'd I would as well, but just, it could just be another treasure trove.
T.C.:Do we is is that as I don't know if that's as satisfying, like, to just have another treasure. Now granted, the second movie did it well where it went on a similar adventure and found a way to do it set with, like, satisfactorily. So perhaps going for a third room of gold is fine. But I I challenge that we can I challenge ourselves? I think we could do better than another room full of gold.
T.C.:So finding what is the metaphorical fountain of youth actually is is the question I keep asking.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And I'm only asking it because I'm trying to think of an answer. So if the if It
Jim:what it could, like, it could be something related to history because the notion of right. The the last movie left off on that notion of legacy Mhmm. And the notion of being remembered for having done something. And the longer you're you're remembered for doing something, the the it's that that's the closest we have to immortality. And thus, that is why it's called the Fountain Of Youth because it is a it is a hoard of historical records.
T.C.:Yeah. But then, you know,
Jim:you Why is that life altering to the president?
T.C.:Right. We don't we don't have to connect it to page 47. Right? I think if the if the Fountain Of Youth it's not a spring of eternal life, but a library of knowledge. How is that?
T.C.:I guess it's like the people who enter the fountain of youth, the misinterpretation of it, the people who enter the spring of knowledge
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Are are butts babes. And when they leave there, they fill their their soul with so their mind and body and spirit with so much, like, lifetimes of information, of knowledge that the misinterpretation of that isn't, oh, you go to the well and you have immortality. You have lifetimes. You go to the spring and drink from it, quote, unquote
Jim:The font of knowledge.
T.C.:And you have you have lifetimes of information there for you. What do you think of that using It
Jim:it would work.
T.C.:You don't love it.
Jim:You don't love it. I don't love it. I might love it by the end of the episode, but it's I'm I'm probably not gonna give up on the gold element as as Mhmm. Quickly. What what about El Dorado?
Jim:Another city of gold. Yeah. Yeah. What if El Dorado ultimately is in the Grand Canyon? Okay.
Jim:And and here's what I mean by that is, like, so the the the legends they stumble across. Right? The El Dorado is this this lost city of gold. Mhmm. They they follow the path and the signs point to the Grand Canyon.
Jim:Mhmm. The reason I mean, we know the real reason the Grand Canyon is the way it is is because of gajillions of years of river erosion. But what if the idea is it is this empty place because the city of gold used to be there and it has been disappeared. Right? Or at least that's the legend.
Jim:And what they end up finding is that the city Of gold isn't actually was wasn't the space that the Grand Canyon now is. Like, he finds an underground tunnel system that leads to another city of gold Okay. Beneath the the Grand Canyon. Not not necessarily beneath the river, but, like, between the the cliffs and stuff of the Grand Canyon.
T.C.:So the like, the, like, the conquistadors who believed in Eldorado, they were looking for it and could never find it because they there was
Jim:a
T.C.:cipher, like a riddle that was never written down. It was only ever whispered. Yeah. Like, the riddle was never put on any sort of text or anything. It was
Jim:just Sure. So
T.C.:like that. Only ever whispered to generations. And and the riddles always misled travelers, but would be conquerors Yeah. To find find the city to go. I'm trying to think of, like, what's their prologue there.
Jim:I I believe the Navajo call the the Grand Canyon or one of the tribes calls the Grand Canyon, whatever they they call it, translates to the house of wind and light. Mhmm. I think. Do with that what you will. Go.
Jim:Okay. Okay. Go.
T.C.:House of wind and light. Oh, okay. The the the the the riddles and ciphers that they are that they have to, decode Mhmm. Are because it was a whispered thing that they never wrote them down, the wind and light that they have to eventually, like, interpret are astrological and geometric things, star star patterns and, like, the the the wind and light of this of the of the ancient sky and having to interpret star patterns and whatnot. At least at one point, that's, like, the the first tipping point of like, Benjamin's, like, there's no riddle.
T.C.:There's nothing to deduce. History has no document. There's zero documentation for us to decipher and and and through it's sort of that, like, Tony Stark accidentally inventing time time travel and endgame moment where it's, like, where he puts it together. Like, wait. They didn't write it down.
T.C.:They didn't have to. It's the stars. Like, the the the first clue that they can decipher is by using
Jim:I don't know if that'd be the first clue. That might be the last clue. Because if the treasure is there Yeah. We want them to get to the Grand Canyon, like, last.
T.C.:Sure. Yeah. I'm just trying to think, like, what what, like, launches them into the adventure. And if it's the there's a codex with no code, it's because the code was never written down. How do we correct the codex?
T.C.:And Benjamin figures out or Riley does. Like, I like the idea that Benjamin takes a side seat here. It's it's like the stars, the the light and wind.
Jim:I I I don't think that should be the first one. I I think we can incorporate the other things we we've been talking about. Mhmm. So let real broad strokes. Sure.
Jim:Sure. Sure. Something happens and Ben Gates and Riley I don't remember his last name. So Ben and Riley and and Amelia are are are tapped Mhmm. Because either someone has stolen or tried to steal Santa Ana's leg.
T.C.:Great.
Jim:Why why did they do that? Oh, we we need to go look at it or they they find out that there is an inscription on the leg, some sort of pass pass key or or something like that.
T.C.:Let's see what's it. What sort of a Justin Bartha? Looks like we looks like we're really kicking off the adventure with this one. Aren't Ben? Kick in.
T.C.:No. No one's gonna give anything?
Jim:Yeah. I'm fine. And then from there, like, they they have to go to the Alamo for how many how many steps do we need for this mystery?
T.C.:Well, it's one it's a leg. It's a leg. So one. Yeah.
Jim:No. I mean, so we go leg Alamo Grand Canyon or, like, so so three things? No. No. I think I think we go things do
T.C.:we leg to Alamo and then Alamo is is like, oh, that's what this is. We the the clue led us to the Alamo. The Alamo tells us El Dorado. This we already you know, we already found a city of gold. We found two of them as a matter of fact.
T.C.:Like, no. El no. El Dorado.
Jim:El Dorado is the
T.C.:My god. That's the That's the one of all.
Jim:Like The New York of city of golds.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. It's the big it's the big golden apple. Yeah. It's the yeah.
T.C.:So at the Alamo is when they realize what the what is being pursued here. And and, of course, our villain our villain has launched them into this somehow or another.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:And so it's a it's a race against the the bad guys as well. Yeah.
Jim:Other things to consider and have fun with Mhmm. Because we can bring it into the like like, I like going having ancient Yeah. Yeah. Treasures, early American history, And then getting something more recent, think, would be fun.
T.C.:I honestly agree that if if this is our third movie, the climax of the trilogy, to work our way through several points of history Mhmm. Is fun. So I'm with you on this.
Jim:So I like the idea of them needing to then follow a clue from the Alamo to one or two other things. I think it would be fun if they need to look at footage of you brought it up JFK. The moon.
T.C.:Oh, the moon. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Jim:Who boy. They can't get to the moon. Yeah. So how are they going to find the clue that's on the flag that was planted?
T.C.:Oh, my god. Or, like, yeah. We need to go to the moon. What do they need to steal, by the way?
Jim:Yeah. I I don't know what what's
T.C.:We need to steal the moon.
Jim:Yeah. What's bigger than the Now,
T.C.:technically, they don't need to steal something because they did kidnap the president. Yes.
Jim:Well, that's still stealing they're stealing a person.
T.C.:They they when you steal a person, the legal term is kidnapping. Yeah. Having some sort of, like, yeah, breaking into breaking into 51. Yeah. That some telescrap.
Jim:That's where I was gonna go next is that.
T.C.:I why am I against that? I love aliens. Why did I roll my eyes at that? Shame on me.
Jim:And then because Riley can be getting crazy excited. Yeah. Aliens, we're finally it's Area 51.
T.C.:I knew it. Aliens. It's not aliens.
Jim:And then and then it won't be it won't be aliens.
T.C.:It won't be aliens. It'll never be aliens. Yeah.
Jim:We can even, like, do a fun little teaser whereas they're sneaking through Riley, like
T.C.:I bet this is gets a
Jim:glance into a room and there's something that looks like it might be an alien or UFO and then, like, he they they gotta go.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:He can't
T.C.:Or he looks and he comes back disappointed and, like, Riley, what was it?
Jim:I I wouldn't wanna disappoint.
T.C.:No. Give me
Jim:let me have my joke. Oh oh, sorry. Sorry.
T.C.:He looks in the room.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:He's like, Riley, what was it? Was it aliens? No. It's just the room where they fake the moon landing. No.
Jim:No. No. Don't do that. Don't do that. I hate that
T.C.:I hate that that myth. Whatever. But yeah. Yeah. Okay.
T.C.:So I have them up to not JFK. You're you're looking at Area 51 so they can, like, somehow, like, I I think Well, so either like, well,
Jim:there's there's several incorporating something like that. Either they have to go to Roswell Mhmm. Because I don't know how much you know about Roswell. There's a big old fiasco, like a weather balloon blew up. Mhmm.
Jim:And so there was scrap everywhere, and it had to be collected. Mhmm. And there are some I believe there there there is still the notion. There are people out there that say that they have their their grandfather grabbed a piece of it and didn't turn it over Yeah. No matter how because the government agents were actually quite thorough in in in getting the stuff.
Jim:So maybe they have to go there for that. Or if we wanna go to the moon, like, whoever is trying to protect Eldorado made sure to the the best protection they could do it was by getting it off planet. They literally
T.C.:Move the treasure to the moon.
Jim:They didn't They didn't move the treasure again. They like, they took the clue from
T.C.:Oh,
Jim:between sure. The Alamo and whatever, and they put it on the flagpole of the American flag that is planted on the moon. So no one can get it.
T.C.:They could just destroy it. Why why move it if they can if if
Jim:Did you watch these movies?
T.C.:You're right. You're right. J. Edgar Hoover. So what's the what's the leg that's sold?
T.C.:Whose whose leg was sold?
Jim:Santa
T.C.:Ana. Santa Ana's leg is sold. Okay. Good. You're suggesting that a clue they have to get is on the flagpole on the moon?
Jim:Yes.
T.C.:How do you suggest they see this information?
Jim:Pictures. I know that that's a a cheap way to do it. Mhmm. But
T.C.:That okay. So Santa Ana, his leg is stolen. That leads him to the Alamo.
Jim:Or I know we don't go to the moon anymore. Could we just say that NASA is doing a moon mission currently?
T.C.:No. How about the Russians or the Chinese? Like, that that America isn't going to the moon. Maybe maybe maybe our villains are somehow, like, involved with I don't know.
Jim:Do we wanna tackle the dark? Oh, yeah.
T.C.:Is that who's going after the treasure? Mhmm. Is do are we gonna do another tech tech billionaire supervillain?
Jim:We have to vilify them until they are gone. Okay. So yes.
T.C.:Okay. So is our main villain Jeffrey Bemusk? Bemusk. Bemusk Bemusk up.
Jim:It it it could be. So to that end I mean, granted it's 2025, so that that is fifteen years after Mhmm. 2010. But I did read recently that a private company has successfully launched completed a a not just a launch mission. I think they did they land on the moon?
T.C.:We landed on the moon.
Jim:How do I look this up?
T.C.:So okay. So,
Jim:anyway, so the way that they then get it is what they're it doesn't make for a great ad thing. So they can steal something else. But as far as finding a clue on the moon rather than just looking at old archived photos, What if they have to go to to I'll
T.C.:Welcome back.
Jim:They find somebody who is doing a moon mission Mhmm. And they have to sneak in and take it over. Right? So Riley gets to do some tech stuff
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And either it's on a drone or they're directing people over Mike or whatever and the rest of NASA or Russia or China. They're they're panicking like, how have we lost connection with our our space people? I like the idea that it's it's a basically, go up to the American American's flag. Is this legal? Yes.
Jim:It's all perfectly fine. Please go up to it. Look for an inscription on so and so. What? What are we doing here?
T.C.:Just do it.
Jim:Just do it. Please read please read this. It says this, this, and this. What what are we supposed to do with this?
T.C.:I like that they hijack a drone moon mission because that that that seems way more plausible than them getting to the
Jim:moon. Yeah.
T.C.:And so they hijack it to read the clue on the flagpole?
Jim:Yeah. That's that's my thought.
T.C.:Okay. I'm I don't mind that. I I I don't Or
Jim:or we could get crazier. Go. Mars? The the the clue. I don't know why.
Jim:We we would need to come up with why. No. They inscribed it. I don't know why they would because you're right. At this point, just destroy the clue.
T.C.:Right. Right.
Jim:But they inscribed it on a golf ball.
T.C.:Oh my god. Come on. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief only so far. So they put it on a golf ball, and then Neil Armstrong hit it Yeah. And it's just somewhere on
Jim:the move. We gotta go find it.
T.C.:No. Get out of here. Get out of here. Neil, did you hit the golf ball? Mission accomplished.
Jim:He wouldn't be in on it. That's the point.
T.C.:Oh, there's a buzz. It's like, hey, man. No. No. None of the
Jim:astronauts are aware of what they've been what what they are part of part two.
T.C.:No. Okay. Not the golf ball. I'm willing to give you the flagpole or the flag itself.
Jim:We again, don't have to do that. We can go at something at Roswell. We can we we could do something at Area 51. Mhmm. There's other things we can do.
Jim:I just thought it would be right. That's that's the crazy bit. We need to steal the flag on the moon or it's not like like Ben, that's not happening. Yeah. Did you know who you're talking to?
Jim:I mean, it's it's again, it's much less interesting if we come up with a thing like, oh, Riley, you didn't know that that's not the original flag, that it's been replaced two or three times. We need to find the original one
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:That's which is back here on Earth.
T.C.:That's good.
Jim:That's yeah. But it's very anticlimactic from we need to steal the moon or whatever.
T.C.:We need to steal a space shuttle. No. That's too like, yeah. That's that's weirdly too outlandish for me. I think that No.
Jim:No. It I think it I think it is too outlandish. Yep.
T.C.:I I there is some steam to it having having to steal a drone to look at a at a moon. And where's Sputnik right now? Is it still rotating around the earth, or is it burned up in the atmosphere?
Jim:That's not really a go to the surface of the moon type thing.
T.C.:It's the atmosphere. It's closer is what I'm suggesting. It's like I'm trying to think of things. Yeah.
Jim:Yeah. I don't think it's I don't know what orbits the moon.
T.C.:A lot of junk.
Jim:A lot of orb a lot of junk orbits Earth.
T.C.:Oh, sorry. I said the moon. Yeah. Yeah. The orbiting Earth, a ton of junk to sift through.
T.C.:We got a freaking we have a we have a a Tej and a and a a Roman up there right now
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:In a in a sports car launched by some 17 year olds Yep. In Japan.
Jim:I had a life before I met you.
T.C.:No. Yeah. Okay. Let's let's say they have their drone moon mission as as a an action set piece in this. We still have to get us to Eldorado, which you have suggested is within the Grand Canyon.
T.C.:Right? Like, that's our our endgame here. I I think I still like the idea of it being a city of gold, but also that like, Book of Seekers did this as well because there was a codex, one of the tombs that Emily Gates was excited. Like, oh my god. This will give us so much more information to
Jim:Oh, sure.
T.C.:Like pre century information. Like, this will help us read more. Like Mhmm. So having
Jim:What it what if that is is the clue that kicks it off? Or the discovery of that, we find out was what ended up motivating our villain to get like Oh, yeah. To put something together. He's like, I gotta get Santa Anna's leg.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. That that's a great that and then that can we can have a cameo from Helen Mirren. We don't have to involve her in the whole adventure. But if her deciphering the information that they found in the previous location in the city in the book of secrets, Gold City, is what tipped the villain off.
T.C.:I like that. That's cool. Okay. Because then we have the reason I say that is because I still think there's something to the city Of Gold also being like a a a, like, a vast record of pre Incan knowledge, like a collection of, like, world maps and advanced agricultural techniques and and mathematical systems, just like history. That it's a it's a collection of ancient history as much as it is a whole lot of gold, which is what the well, that's what the other two places were as well is that it wasn't just gold artifacts.
T.C.:It was history.
Jim:The the knowledge the knowledge was just it was tied to the stuff being old.
T.C.:Right. Right.
Jim:That's fine. So
T.C.:after our moon mission, let's I I I want to get worldwide with this because they went to Paris in the last one as well. Like, I Sure. Because we're maybe if we're going from Alamo to Roswell space race stuff, like, if there's an organic way to work through history, the Cold War against the Russians could tie into our oligarch.
Jim:Going to Russia.
T.C.:Yeah. Going to to Russia. Yeah. And, you know, watching Nick Cage put on a a Russian accent to try to get through a thing, something Iron Curtain related, something dealing with the communists. Sputnik, I had already mentioned that.
T.C.:Something I like in the book of secrets is that there's the two desks. The resolute desk is in in the end in in the in the White House. So something like that where it's like, another piece of this puzzle is elsewhere in the world and disconnected from anything we've had so far, is a lot of South American, both South
Jim:Western
T.C.:Southwestern and South America. Like, we're dealing with basically Mexico, ancient Mexico, ancient Spain, land, whatnot. I don't know if there's, like, a
Jim:an organic way to connect to If we do wanna connect it to, right, the the the most direct connection there is the conquistadors. So we have to go back to they have to go to Spain.
T.C.:Okay. Alright.
Jim:I don't know for what?
T.C.:More more conquistador stuff?
Jim:Well, some some clue was actually stolen by the conquistadors and taken back Mhmm. To Spain. I don't know what that would be.
T.C.:Or the next clue takes them to Spain. So, like, the next
Jim:Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. The right. Something happens somewhere in the Southwest after after the Alamo instead of the moon instead of the moon or area 51, maybe their their their next clue shows the the clue shows it was connected to something taken from from Central America. And they they go and they find that it was, I don't know, a freaking a crown that conquistador Mhmm.
Jim:Joe took, and he took it back to Spain. And so it's on display in Spain. So now they gotta go to Spain.
T.C.:And and heist something.
Jim:Or or just find the clue there.
T.C.:Yeah. Okay. So Sam's leg, the Alamo, find out it's about searching El Dorado, gets us to Roswell. The moon they hacked the moon mission. The next thing takes them to
Jim:Oh, I was getting rid of the space race stuff. I still
T.C.:think we can use it. I I think there's still
Jim:some I don't know how we come back from the space race to then go to the conquistadors.
T.C.:The clue on the pole the the the the pole.
Jim:Oh, okay.
T.C.:I'm just trying to I'm trying to move us around the map here, as much as possible. Because if the
Jim:I tried getting us to the moon.
T.C.:You got us there. You I let you take me to the moon. If it's it's it's finding some sort of key artifacts on in from the like a like a maybe this starts leading us to understanding the stars are the map here. If it's some sort of, like, sun disc that was like a missing piece of a small treasure that the conquistors took back, like
Jim:What if the moon hint is the last one? Because literally when they finally get that clue Oh, yeah. On on the moon, the clue is referring to the stars.
T.C.:So the the hijacking the moon mission, that's, like, the last piece before getting to El Dorado or getting to Grand Canyon? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Jim:Ben Ben is able to put together I don't know what the clue would be, but the the riddle is. But whatever it says on the flag, leads leads him. He's like, oh, that that's referring to the Grand Canyon. Right? Like Yeah.
Jim:That's a terrible No.
T.C.:No. No. That's not bad. So, like, if if at the Alamo, that's what tips them off that they gotta go to Spain. And then maybe from Spain, we go to, like, we go back to Paris or, like, Rome.
T.C.:We go to, like, Catacombs or something. Then Machu Picchu, like, we get to Peru, and and then Roswell. Like, that moves us through three different continents, and then the Roswell moon mission is the, is the big not the final set piece because the final set piece is going to be in El Dorado, but the yeah. Yeah. I don't mind that.
T.C.:Moving the moon mission there, realizing that the the final clue is the codex is in the stars. Like, the this is all the clues that we solved along this way, and there's always another clue, and now we're stumped. And it's, oh, no. We it's because it was always whispered. Like, that's something that's established right at the beginning.
T.C.:The reason El Dorado was never found is because the legend was only ever whispered. No one ever found any tangible, like, maps or anything. Nothing was ever written. Where if it did exist, they never documented it. It was passed down through the most ancient of traditions.
Jim:And the conquistadors killed everyone who knew anything.
T.C.:Yeah. And so that then it's the revelation of, like, we were able to follow these clues to a point because this is what anyone else was able to cobble together, and then they reached their dead end after, like, if they get from Spain to Rome to Peru and then they reach a dead end. It's like and there can be commentary in there about how when the conquerors came to these places, they devastated them. They killed all these people. The so much history was lost because of conquerors instead of people coming with open hands without swords in them.
T.C.:It could be some Sure. History lesson than that. And in Benjamin or even Abigail, someone's saying, like, the that the real history is the is just the stories that have been left behind, the most ancient of tradition. Wait. They look to the stars.
T.C.:This to this to this, you know, in Ben's way. He's like, that's it. That's the no. That's it. We have to go to the moon.
T.C.:Crap. What?
Jim:I just figured out the justification for an archive of knowledge being called the fountain of youth. Yes. And how it to the theming that I identified in the two movie. The both national treasure and national treasure two two more so has a message about family, but it's not really about family. It's about legacy.
T.C.:Yes. Yes.
Jim:The fountain of youth is literally an archive of knowledge for the young to benefit from. It is it is overflowing with knowledge for the and so we can do it'd only be three years. So you probably wouldn't wanna basically, yes, talking about we can get into the notion of legacy and what one passes down to their children. And maybe that's what like, we even do something with Patrick Gates. Mhmm.
Jim:He's he's he's too old. He's too old to go on the adventures anymore. That last one in South Dakota was the last one for him, Ben. You you you keep going. And and by the way, when when are when are you and you and Emilia move back in.
Jim:When are you when are you gonna finally lock it down and and and give me some grandbabies kinda kinda thing. And that could be the discussion of this movie. Right? And so then it ends with them being like, yes, we must pass down the legacy. Let's make some babies.
T.C.:Let's let's have let's start a family kind of thing. Yeah. I don't because I had suggested
Jim:that No. That's totally different. That's Fountain of Youth. That's not, Eldorado.
T.C.:Oh, yeah. That's right.
Jim:Yeah. Sorry.
T.C.:No. Well, you know what? They mixed the Masons and the Templars. Now I know technically They they didn't. They didn't.
T.C.:They didn't. I know that the Knights Templars did lead to the Masons historically. I maybe there's a system. Maybe there's a suggestion that Eldorado and the Fountain Of Youth are
Jim:Are one and the same?
T.C.:One and the same. Yeah. That if if our villain, our tech villain, our our billionaire who like literally thinks he's gonna find eternal life by finding the Fountain Of Youth.
Jim:I mean, it it's an easy pivot. We we just the the whole well, I'm could we move the whispering thing to the Fountain Of Youth? We just don't have to go to the Grand Canyon.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. I yeah. I don't mind that.
Jim:Because it can still be Santa Ana's leg to the Alamo to Roswell or Area 51 to where? Louisiana? Is that where we wanna put where we
T.C.:wanna put the Fountain
Jim:Of Youth?
T.C.:Yeah. I mean, if we want it to be, located in America. Well, no. Louisiana is where the TV show went, so not in the Bayou.
Jim:But that but that's where the Fountain Of Youth is. That's why Put it
T.C.:in Florida.
Jim:Parts of the Caribbean is We'll put it
T.C.:in Florida.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:I just I just we'll be we'll be treading on ground that's already been covered by
Jim:Not if we're set in 2010.
T.C.:You are correct. If we set this in 2010, yes. This show doesn't exist, and therefore, we can use it. Okay. It's in Louisiana.
T.C.:Where yeah. Yeah. Okay. So
Jim:so No. I I can I could work with shifting it? That's why it was never found. Everyone was looking in Louisiana.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:But it was never there. It was always in the Everglades.
T.C.:Yeah. It's because Ponce de Leon looked in Florida. He thought it was in Florida. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:And so going, Alamo to Spain to I keep picking Rome just to mess with the church, to Peru, hitting the dead end, realizing the stars are the key, and somehow connecting that to we need to go to we need to go to the moon.
Jim:That's right. You you want a globetrot. Yeah. Is
T.C.:it too way too late in the game to have him do the moon thing? Like right. Because, like, stealing the declaration of independence is in the first twenty minutes of the first movie. Kidnapping the president is nearing the middle of the movie. Mhmm.
T.C.:Is it out of pocket to move
Jim:And have that be the third act?
T.C.:Yeah. I I don't I don't Well, actually,
Jim:late second act.
T.C.:Yeah. I'm not I'm not saying it it it even could be that midpoint that the second one did as well. Like, it's we I'm I'm okay with it if you're okay with
Jim:it. Sure.
T.C.:Like, if we're selling this movie on steel, we have to go to the moon. People will be waiting the whole movie for that. Maybe we don't
Jim:sell it. I I think it could be middle of the movie. It could be the clue after the Alamo. We have to steal the moon. We have to go to the moon.
T.C.:Yeah. No. I like it later in the movie. I like your notion that we we get a few spots. I and I do I've I had fallen in love with my idea that they are in Peru, and they discuss the the how sad it is to lose history because of conquerors and think of how many people how many stories, how many civilizations around the world are gone because of conquerors who've literally devastated entire cultures and buried them because they were stronger than them.
T.C.:And that that lament, I think there's some some I like that. That's sweet. And and then realizing the stars so that the big second act and the third act set piece is we have to go to the moon. That's not that feels fun to me.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Because then once you get that star clue, that moon clue, then getting us to the location of our big finale, the third act, the El Dorado or the Fountain Of Youth.
Jim:The the connection of the clues were whispered and needing to go to the moon and having the clue be referencing the stars for a star map or a star cipher
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:I think does relate to the Grand Canyon better Okay. Than the swamp.
T.C.:Great. I I'm cool putting it back in putting it in the Grand Canyon that the final location, the Fountain Of Youth or the or El Dorado or or it's the same one and the same.
Jim:The only reason I really wanna pivot over to the Fountain Of Youth is because it does connect to that Easter egg of life altering puzzle on page 47.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. That's the
Jim:only reason I really wanna go back
T.C.:to story. And it maintains legacy. Yeah. The theme that the the movies have had.
Jim:Whereas El Dorado does not. It's just, oh, some guy wants a big pile of treasure. Yeah. We don't want him to have it. And I love the idea
T.C.:of this villain being like, I'm gonna find the fountain of youth and be and and and think in his own twisted way that it will give him eternal life. That he's Sure. He's so narcissistic and egotistical to think like, no. I don't believe in in magic. It's some sort of science, some sort of alchemy.
T.C.:Like, he's convinced himself that he that there was an ancient brain as smart as his that figured out and, like, if it was real, there'd be more immortals running around. Like like, no, you don't understand. Like, I'm I'm the only one smart enough to figure this out and whatever twisted trail he takes to get there. The disappointment is the defeat to be like, where is it? Where's the Oh.
Jim:Oh. Don't you understand this is? Well, I guess if we set it in 2010, think it's less believable. In 2025, private private companies are are doing space missions. They're even they're I'd looked it up mark on March.
Jim:In in this past March, a private company did land on the moon. So if for the 2025 movie, it's easy enough to say, yes, there's private groups going to the moon and they hijack one of their things. And also what we can do there, we've built our own conceit. We don't just they don't just have to be like, oh, look. There happens to be one.
Jim:Mhmm. And it doesn't have to be a national thing. Art, our villain could be like, oh, thanks, Ben. The next clue's on the moon. Guess I'm going to the moon.
T.C.:Yeah. And so then they're
Jim:hijack the villain's tech Yeah. When when looking at the moon. Or at least, it would be better if they hijack it. But Piggyback. If not just piggyback Mhmm.
Jim:To see the clue as well.
T.C.:Here's here's their plan. They they they're going to piggyback hijack it, and, there's a delay from moon to Earth. Right? And knowing that there's a delay, the plan is we catch the delay first and is and in milliseconds, they have to alter the information. So this is not this, but this.
T.C.:Like, if the flag has a a number system on it, Riley will catch it first and quickly alter it to send it to the
Jim:Oh, so we get a we get a tech feat?
T.C.:Yeah. And and that's the that's the plan of,
Jim:like Sure.
T.C.:Like, we're gonna send them the wrong we'll get the right information, and then as fast as possible, send them the wrong information. But our villains could be much like Ian in the first one, he was clever enough to solve these clues out. Mhmm. Like, he did figure some of them out That tech could be like, nope. Run it again.
T.C.:I don't believe this. Like, some something like I think
Jim:he'd be like, great. We have this info. Let let's get going. And then, like, right right as they get going, he's like like, he has a moment of, wait a minute. Mhmm.
Jim:Where's Gates? Yeah. And, like, they they're they're they're, they're tracking him somehow. He's like, they're moving this this way. Mhmm.
Jim:Follow them.
T.C.:Follow them. Or or maybe Gates maybe in the in the piggyback hijack situation, Nick Ben is is, like, caught in the mix. Like, he's in the building. Okay. Make sure you get this.
T.C.:Catch him. Make sure okay. Where's like like, so that the heist goes wrong that the so that, when they do get the we got it, and he didn't. I don't believe it. Like, you know what I mean?
T.C.:Like, having it having it Sure. Something goes wrong, and that allows the the our villain to go to second guess the information. Like
Jim:Well, yeah. That well, mine mine was just much simpler of of the that seems too easy.
T.C.:Yeah. Follow him.
Jim:But but I think convoluted is probably more Yeah. Visually entertaining.
T.C.:And also, if he could just follow Ben, then I mean, that's what Ed Harris does in the second one. It's just, like, set Ben off and follow him.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:And and I'd I'd like our villain to think he's clever enough to
Jim:I I wasn't disagreeing with that just in this one instance where he's like, he used all of his his technology and he quote unquote gets the clue first as far as he knows. Mhmm. And that's what makes him not trust it.
T.C.:Yeah. Wait. How did
Jim:I've not beaten Ben to a to an answer yet. Yeah. Tell me where he is.
T.C.:Yeah. Have we are we still tracking him? Yeah.
Jim:That it doesn't it doesn't that that's we'll worry about that later.
T.C.:In the in the actual writing of it. Yeah. I love I really yeah. Getting the stars using that as the to find the final location being in the ground. We have to go to the Grand Canyon.
Jim:Wait. So if they gotta we can have it be they don't have to go to El Dorado. What if that's just the next clue? They gotta go to the Grand Canyon
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:And they have to Astral gate, basically. They they need to navigate by the stars, and and they need to figure out like, okay, this point's there. But on a map that does this, and so that's what's gonna point him to Florida? Or
T.C.:No. I I'm okay with it being in in the Grand Canyon that
Jim:No. Nice. I really wanna do Fountain Of Youth now.
T.C.:Okay. I was saying the Fountain Of Youth can be in the No.
Jim:No. Can't.
T.C.:You wanna get to Florida or or Louisiana?
Jim:In the Grand Canyon?
T.C.:What like, well, traditionally, we yeah.
Jim:Traditionally, the Fountain Of Youth is in the swampy part the swampy Southern Gulf parts of The USA.
T.C.:Okay. Okay. Okay. So traditionally, there so, yeah, the Grand Canyon being this wonderful monuments.
Jim:Unless unless that's the clue. Right? Like, in that case, I
T.C.:The traditionally, historically, the Fountain Of Youth is most closely tied to Saint Augustine, Florida. It's the most the most famous legend is Ponce de Leon landing in Florida in 1513 while searching for the Fountain Of Youth, a spring that could grant eternal life. Saint Augustine to this day is even considered the Fountain Of Youth has the Fountain Of Youth Archaeological Park. It's a tourist attraction built
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:Based on the story. So we can get to the swamps, the Everglades in Florida, and now we avoid the Louisiana. So now that show
Jim:I wasn't I wasn't aware of that. I was I was I'd would rather be more accurate to that than saying, no. The Fountain Of Youth is in Arizona.
T.C.:Yeah. Great. Yeah. So we can get to Florida. So I think still getting to the Grand Canyon and and having them star chart their way.
Jim:That's what I'm saying. Yes. Yes. They go to the Grand Canyon and they they use the star chart there. Mhmm.
Jim:And the the the star chart points them somehow like, oh, we gotta go this many degrees off of that, to figure out then that actually points at Florida.
T.C.:Yeah. Well, what Well How did you get here, evil guy? While you were busy looking at the stars, I was looking down at you with my satellites, and I followed you here. Something some villainous dumb thing to say. What are you what are you scratching your chin about?
Jim:I'm realizing it shouldn't be in Florida.
T.C.:Okay. I'm
Jim:I'm now coming around to it being in the Grand Canyon.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:Because if it was in Florida, literally, the Internet will tell you that.
T.C.:Especially in 2010 or 2025.
Jim:Yeah. Well, anytime. Yeah. Look up in an encyclopedia in the nineteen seventies Oh, yeah. It'll say The Fountain Of
T.C.:Youth is in Florida. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's where it's traditionally at.
Jim:Because that's where everyone thinks it is.
T.C.:Yeah. Great.
Jim:So the moment the the words Fountain Of Youth are mentioned Mhmm. Ben Gates would have been Saint Augustine.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Done.
T.C.:Yeah. It's like, no. If it was there, someone would have found it. Oh, that's where it's Well, that's where it says it is. It's So
Jim:it would be a matter of finding a connection between Florida and Arizona. Right? Grand Canyon is Arizona or is that New Mexico? Or is it I I'm I'm
T.C.:Oh my god.
Jim:Bad at this.
T.C.:The Grand Canyon is in Arizona.
Jim:It is in Arizona. Okay. Why why are you laughing at me? I know so many things. Just because I don't know that.
T.C.:It's alright. It's alright. It was you know, that's fine. So you need to find a connection between Florida and the Grand Canyon? Like, what is connection?
Jim:For our characters to to puzzle, to unpuzzle.
T.C.:Right. So now do we want a real one or we can make like contrive one?
Jim:The more real the better, but we can contrive one. Great. The Masons.
T.C.:The Masons. The damn Masons. Okay. So if if we're looking like Ponce de Leon and the Conquistores, like Florida was their entry point and they sent expeditions like across the Gulf Of The Gulf Coast. The Gulf Of Mexico on this podcast.
T.C.:Thank you very much. Yeah. And then eventually would have got them to Texas and New Mexico and Arizona if If
Jim:they if they pushed across the desert.
T.C.:Yeah. So you like, we could could frame it as, like, explorers carried knowledge of artifacts from Florida into the continent, into the Grand Canyon. Like, they they carved their way there.
Jim:Why would they do that?
T.C.:I don't know, Arch. I like, if I'm I'm trying to think of how the foundation is located there, and if any and someone had to have located it there. Is it the ancient ink like, the ancients are the ones who are aware of it, the conquistors never found it. Right? Yeah.
T.C.:Okay. Yeah. Because they killed everyone who had the knowledge. Yeah. Got it.
T.C.:Okay.
Jim:What if
T.C.:Well, there's tribe.
Jim:What if we have a story about the the natives, the first peoples.
T.C.:There you go.
Jim:Even though they're they're not a singular nation. There there are many different tribes, especially with us going across the continent.
T.C.:I am not in We could look up what Indian tribes are located in that area, especially like the Mississippi Valley.
Jim:Meaning that they would have had to cooperate. Like, we got these people, these these golden haired metal chested people chasing us. Yeah. And they're trying to get this.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:Please run it further away. Don't let them have it. Hide this somewhere.
T.C.:The like the first peoples being the oh, yeah. Yeah. So okay. All the way to the beginning of our movie when we see the Alamo as our prologue, having a first nation person or people there in the midst of the battle, they're the ones protecting the information in the Alamo. Like, that it's not Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone protecting the Alamo's information.
T.C.:They're our first peoples in there. Sure. So that then when we connected all the way back that they're the ones who carried the who protected the secret, they were the whisperers, the wind the wind talkers that that protected the secret.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. I used that correctly?
Jim:No.
T.C.:No. Wind talkers are the planes?
Jim:Wind no. Wind talkers are are the well, the Navajos. They were Navajo well, the code talkers. Wind talker technically might be different. You might have used it properly.
T.C.:That's alright. But, yeah, having having the first peoples move the information that it's yeah. We can yeah. So it's in the Grand Canyon. Sure.
T.C.:Okay. It's it's pretty late in the game, but we're gonna take a break right here.
Jim:I I realize now
T.C.:how long we've been going, and we've really got some steam going. Yeah. I don't feel like we're in a stuck point. No. I feel like we've got some good momentum here, so let's just take a quick five for ourselves.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:And a quick thirty seconds for our
Jim:listeners. Yeah.
T.C.:Alright. We'll be right back after this. And we're back. Okay. Thank you for allowing us that quick break.
T.C.:We do that we do that for we do that for cable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Jim:So So we made our tech our tech billionaire or our tech villain Mhmm. With his going to the moon technology works without problem in 2025. Don't know that it works in 2010.
T.C.:Well, I I counter with the tech billionaire villain in nineteen ninety seven's Tomorrow Never Dies, a man who had significant control over computers in a social media web before social media existed. So the villain in a Bond movie was not landing on the moon cable. That that was Moonraker, but I I I I take your point. I don't know if it's if it's it's as problematic in 2010 as you might think.
Jim:I I just it it doesn't fall into the what I feel is the fictional realism that National Treasure is. Obviously, things are embellished. Mhmm. I I feel like that embellishes it too much, too far. Also, the the theme of as as we've noted previously, that that theme of legacy Mhmm.
Jim:And discussion of family and and and whether or not to start one Sure. Is much more appropriate in 2010 instead of thirteen years later.
T.C.:Right. Right. When they are,
Jim:like because thirteen thirteen years later I mean, yes. I'm I'm John Voigt and Heleneer. Heleneer are still alive and they could still reprise their roles. Mhmm.
T.C.:No. I'm I'm on board. I I get you mean about 2010 is a better placement for this, and therefore, our tech billionaire villain being, like, an independent billionaire who's gonna go to the moon. Okay. A little little harder to swallow in 2010.
T.C.:But having them be a subcontractor within NASA now allows us to go to Cape Canaveral and an actual landmark or going to Houston. Right? Since we're in the South, like, West, like, we
Jim:We didn't launch from Houston, though.
T.C.:No. I don't think so. Yeah. But but mission control would control the
Jim:Oh.
T.C.:Oh. Yeah. So then it's not then we're not controlling a drone space launch. We could be hijacking an actual spacewalk. Like, we could in 2010, it seems more feasible that someone's landing on the moon again.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:In fact, that could be, like, okay. So now dealing with the Alamo and Roswell, and I know we're mixing conquistadors. Yeah. We're, like, all over the historical board here. Yeah.
T.C.:This space race, like, having having Ben or Abigail be like, oh, gosh. The thing that the the thing I love most about history is, oh, I love the space race era. Like, then then maybe our, villain who's a contractor within NASA is Russian. Like, having some sort of, like, Cold War connection in the midst there. I'm not saying we have to that.
Jim:Just Mhmm.
T.C.:The the adjustment to 2010 isn't so hard. Okay. Yeah. If it's 2025, it's Elon Musk. If it's 2010, then it's a subcontractor within NASA, and we get to heist mission control.
T.C.:And that's kind of fun.
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. And I I feel and that's also a bit more on brand of hijacking something governmental.
T.C.:Yes. I think so too. And it's more fun to think it in 2010 terms. Mhmm. So thank you for pointing that out and taking it there.
T.C.:And also more feasible that in 2010, the idea of starting a family makes a bit more sense for the age appropriateness. Not that Diane Berger and Nick Cage can't start a family later in life, but just thinking of of our main characters and the feasibility of that.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. It makes I I like yeah. Yeah. The youth being such a key factor in this discussion of their childhood loves. I love this as a child.
T.C.:I love this as a child. What is our child gonna love? We haven't talked about children. Just as long as, you know, you make me your best godfather ever, uncle Riley, everyone. Yeah.
T.C.:You know you know, Riley's a good girl's and boy's name. Right?
Jim:Actually, I think that would be funny if every time it's brought up in front of him, he's like, I think it's a great idea.
T.C.:Yeah. And Riley can be a boy or a girl's name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. And okay. Cool. Cool. Cool.
T.C.:The the finale of this, how what what's I like the idea that the loss of the villain is the disappointment of there is no fountain of youth, you idiot. The fact that you ever thought there was is just shows how much hubris you have or how how dumb you are. You know? Do we do we off our villain now?
Jim:Does he die in some way? No.
T.C.:Ian was arrested. Ed Harris was crushed, and they showed it. Yeah. Didn't have to do that, Jim.
Jim:They did.
T.C.:You said they did.
Jim:You said I yeah. Because the way it was shot, it really felt like a like a now we need to show people that he's dead. Yeah. We gotta Of course. Can't because otherwise because I think if you don't have that shot, if they're if he's just he's behind that wall somewhere, we have to get, like, they
T.C.:You're right.
Jim:If we don't see him die, our heroes seem less heroic.
T.C.:Yeah. No no body, no death. That's just the rule, and we had to see it.
Jim:So Yeah.
T.C.:That said, what do we do with our our villain here? Do we have him arrested? Does Harvey Keitel come in and and Mason him? You're arrested.
Jim:Yes. Yeah. For what? We'll find something. Well No.
Jim:No. And
T.C.:the As, like, he could be a traitor in our midst. Like, if if we go to the he's actually a secret Russian asset, and he's been and he is a sleeper agent within America and secretly Russian, and therefore Harvey Katel now is like, oh, yeah. We're arresting you. Treason, my friend. Oh, I don't wanna go to your American prison.
T.C.:Oh, you won't be. We're gonna trade you. Give we'll give you back. Yeah. You can go back to your motherland as a disgrace, but we're getting something in return because we hate Russia.
T.C.:In 2010
Jim:Oh. Oh, no. No. No. I don't I don't want I don't wanna review that.
Jim:I want him to be, a well, my my initial thought is he is related to the conquistador. Oh. Maybe he's a descendant of Ponce de Leon Oh, yeah. Or or an or another conquistador.
T.C.:It's his legacy.
Jim:That was yeah.
T.C.:This is my this is my my legacy.
Jim:I deserve this. Yeah. And I and I don't care how much history I trample across to get it.
T.C.:Oh, man. You know, that sets us up for is a sword fight. Yeah. Like, if he's just so into his family's lineage and and just having a sword fight.
Jim:I don't know. None of our characters are sword fighters.
T.C.:I know. Which just makes it better that we have a a flailing sword, like Ben's just like, And he's just toying with him. Yeah. No. No.
T.C.:You know who ends up being a a a sword fight? Abigail. She just took fencing.
Jim:Abigail, not not Amelia.
T.C.:Yeah. Sword fight. Yes. Monkeys in the jungle?
Jim:Absolutely. We're gonna have a sword fight. No. Can't have a can't have a sword fight if you don't have monkeys in the jungle.
T.C.:Especially in South America. Yeah. Let's not do that. Okay. It's been done.
T.C.:It was done two years earlier in 2008 in kingdom of crystal skull. Did you see it? The what? It's an Indiana Jones movie. Kingdom of
Jim:the Crystal Indiana Jones?
T.C.:I do not okay. Are you not familiar with Indiana Jones? Henry Jones
Jim:that old eighties franchise? Yeah. Wasn't there one in the nineties?
T.C.:No. No. '89.
Jim:It was '89. It was the eighties. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. Oh, it's old. The
Jim:third one was '89? Yeah. I guess that makes sense. I thought I was older than that.
T.C.:No. Last Crusade is is '89. Yeah. Because the eighty one, eighty four, eighty nine. I think that's the I think that's the rights.
T.C.:Yeah. Eighty one, eighty four, eighty nine.
Jim:Yeah. Do we need any more jumps? I know I know you went to Peru, and that works. Mhmm. We can we can actually go to the
T.C.:I if
Jim:The I I don't know where it is. I don't know which place it is, but there's actually an image of I forget if it's Mayan or or or Aztec. Mhmm. But they they they have, basically, the ancient astronaut. Do you know do you know about the Certainly.
Jim:Image? Yeah. Like like, we because we're going to the moon today, we could we could try to incorporate that somehow.
T.C.:Possibly.
Jim:Yeah. Actually, maybe that's what leads them to
T.C.:Let's go to the moon. Yeah.
Jim:But I was gonna say if we need more beats, because I know you wanted a globetrot Well we can connect these ziggurats of Central America to the pyramids in Egypt.
T.C.:I don't mind that. I don't mind getting to Egypt. I'd I'd I'm thinking of the Spanish conquistadors connecting them to the Catholics in Rome, got, like, some sort of catacomb beat there. We might not need we might not need another set piece in another location, but, you know, I don't mind hitting hitting the the Pyramids if we're gonna if we're gonna spread this across multiple if we're gonna
Jim:Oh, I mean, I I didn't realize you were invoking the Vatican. Do we want Ben and company to steal something from the Vatican archives? Oh. Like a clue has been locked away there?
T.C.:Yeah. We we we get ahead of the da Vinci code by messing with the with the Roman. I I I I had an idea like, if we got to Spain, I wanted to go some other European location. So I, at at random, selected Rome because Mhmm. I didn't wanna go to Paris again.
T.C.:I had suggested going to Russia, but because you evoked that the legacy of Ponce de Leon's on the line here
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Makes Spain is perfect for that. And then that just makes me think of, like, the Catholic church getting involved in. Okay. So having them have to heist something from how many heists can we have in one thing? We might not need, like, a lot.
Jim:Infinite heists.
T.C.:Infinite heists. That's the National Treasure two Infinite Heist colon Three. And National Treasure three Infinite Heist colon sub subtitle The Fountain of Youth.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah. Sub sub subtitle legacy.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:So it's a real legacy sequel.
Jim:Yep.
T.C.:No. I I I think there's there might be some fun to you know what? Actually, let me think here. Do we wanna heist something from the Vatican? 2000
Jim:Oh, no.
T.C.:'6, Mission Impossible heisted from the Vatican. So that predates book, the first national treasure.
Jim:We don't have to be the first.
T.C.:I know. I'm just I'm just trying
Jim:to think how close we were
T.C.:to the vanquen recently being It's enough. It's Yeah. Four years away.
Jim:Yeah.
T.C.:Wait. Is that right?
Jim:Yeah. It
T.C.:is. It was a four seven. Okay. And, you know, I get I could take it or leave it, but I think Okay. Still messing with Romans is fine.
T.C.:What were you gonna
Jim:I realize so if this movie is 2010 Mhmm. Theoretically, then a fourth movie in 2025, fifteen years later, would have because we had them talking about having a kid, they would have a kid. That's how that works. Mhmm. Yes.
Jim:So they would have a teenager.
T.C.:Oh,
Jim:yeah. And so the Gates teenager is entirely would would you have them be uninterested in history and legacy and all these things? And so their arc through the movie is finding out that his treasure hunting dad, like like, actually goes on real adventures, even though, like, there's proof that he does it. Yeah. That's teenagers for you.
Jim:Everything my parents do is lame.
T.C.:Well, we have successfully made National Treasure three that's making $570,000,000. Yeah. Easily. We've successfully done that as per our request. So Disney never lit want to leave money on the table.
T.C.:They'll wait a little bit, but they're gonna wanna start a new trilogy, and who better to be the main character Gross. Than now a teenage kid with with their parent with the parents as the sub as the supporting character.
Jim:The TV show that'll fail in 2020
T.C.:No. A this is a trilogy of movies starring Tom Holland. They've just plucked him from obscurity after the
Jim:You didn't for for once for once, you didn't make it better by invoking Tom Holland.
T.C.:I don't think an an a disinterested
Jim:the the reason I don't think a disinterested one, because isn't that what they did
T.C.:with Alex in mummy three? Wasn't he disinterested in the adventuring?
Jim:In mummy two, he was interested. I don't think I watched mummy three.
T.C.:It's for the best. It's it's for the best. If you dislike mummy two, you would hate the mummy three.
Jim:I believe it.
T.C.:Yeah. Having having the fourth movie being the Gates kid, he would I I I you
Jim:I think the point the reason I say that is because the arc is that by the end of the Gates kid does is into this, is into the family business of treasure hunting and goobering about history. Mhmm. And ideally, right, as a vehicle, the reason this promoted at Disney is like, and we're gonna get kids excited about history, and that's what this movie does.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah.
Jim:Or should they should they be into it from the beginning?
T.C.:Like They're like
Jim:Ben Ben grew up believing all of this.
T.C.:Right. Is is their kid Riley? Yeah. Riley junior. No.
T.C.:Yeah. Is their kid boy like, whatever their kid is. Does it work better for them to not be interested? I think if you take that much time from so we made our movie in 2010, and then they waited till 2025 to make a new one. Yeah.
T.C.:A 15 year old kid. It 15 year olds aren't interested in the national treasure movies. Those are 15 year old movies. We don't care. So, yes, it makes sense that the the avatar for the youth watching the movie has
Jim:to
T.C.:be convinced to like the movie.
Jim:Okay.
T.C.:There. It's a little bit of it's sort of what, some of legacy sequels do anyway. Yeah. It's like, how do we appeal to a young group of kids who don't care about this franchise? Make the main character not care about this franchise, and in the end, make them love it.
T.C.:Yeah. Nice. That's, that's our natural treasure for soft pitch.
Jim:Does it start with Patrick Gates giving giving Riley Gates? Although, I think it's probably funnier if they don't do that.
T.C.:Middle name's Riley.
Jim:Sure. Yeah. Yeah. What would be do you think so Ben Franklin Gates was obviously named after Ben Franklin. Mhmm.
Jim:Does Ben Ben Gates follow that tradition and name their kid after after a founding father of some kind?
T.C.:Yeah. Probably. Sam. There you go. It's a it's a unisex name, so you'd be bored of it.
T.C.:Alex? Yeah. So oh, he so
Jim:Patrick but so so Patrick tells Sam Yeah. Some secret, and then shortly after is killed. And so Sam doesn't understand the the importance of this weird thing grandpa said Mhmm. Before those people showed up. And thus, Ben has to take Sam.
Jim:Ben and Abigail Yeah. Have to take Sam on this adventure because Sam is now in danger as the whole family is, and Sam has the only clue. Yes. Sam could say it or write it down. But nevertheless, Sam has the the clue necessary.
T.C.:Possibly, except for the fact that that is mummy two, the kid has the clue. That's why the villains drag
Jim:him along. I didn't like that. Well, the villains drag him along. Yeah. And I'm glad you said that because I was gonna suggest what if they have to rescue the kid from the villains, and I don't like that very
T.C.:like the idea of Patrick giving some historical significant prologue to Sam and then dying. Mhmm. And now Sam is is is invested in this adventure for the sake of his grandfather's dying words. Mhmm. Whether or not those dying words are specifically a clue or just like, Christopher Plummer just told the told the legend of the of of the, of the knights temple on gold
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:To Ben. That's what he was fascinated by. So having even if even if Patrick died, years ago, like, it's the prologue is the last conversation he had with Patrick. So Patrick is just in the opening Mhmm. Passes away.
T.C.:It is now full fifteen years later, and, young Sam is doggedly obsessed. And
Jim:Oh, so so they are interested.
T.C.:Or disinterested. Sorry. Interested, disinterested. Don't know. But, like, the the call to adventure is rooted in the legend that Patrick bestowed upon Okay.
T.C.:Sam.
Jim:And what if that legend is something Patrick that the Gates family has kept hidden, that Patrick has kept hidden
T.C.:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jim:And he didn't tell Ben because Ben believes everything should be brought into the light and Yeah. Is is to be shared. Yeah. Now But this secret Okay. This secret is too important not is too important and must be kept.
T.C.:This secret is somehow connected to every major American war. Sure. So then we have, like it's historically connected to World War one, World War two, Vietnam, the Afghan war possibly. I don't know if you wanna go that far into modern history.
Jim:Well, if Patrick was given this secret by his dad Mhmm. Patrick is old enough to go back to
T.C.:Vietnam era.
Jim:Vietnam himself.
T.C.:In Korea. But yeah. But I just chose the World Wars
Jim:Sure. Yeah.
T.C.:As a subject matter that the National Treasure movies haven't touched on. Mhmm. Allows us a lot of points in history, allows us a lot of reflection.
Jim:Sure.
T.C.:Once again, legacy.
Jim:Mhmm.
T.C.:Visiting Pearl Harbor at some point would be might be something to
Jim:Oh, yeah.
T.C.:Wow. Well, that kinda gave me a little tingle just thinking I like
Jim:the idea that a secret is is left on the I the the Nimitz?
T.C.:So the the battleships?
Jim:Yeah. Yeah. That's the one that you can go you can go view. Yeah. Right?
Jim:They have the the the glass bottom Mhmm. Bridge.
T.C.:Yeah. So in in having a nice reflect like a reflection on the significance of history and the sadness of that in in that moment.
Jim:But also with adventure.
T.C.:Right.
Jim:Yeah. Like Exciting. Taking a moment
T.C.:in the adventure to acknowledge the the import of what history costs us. I think these movies in their own PG way have managed to do that just very slightly. Like, I love the moment when Benjamin reads declaration of independence in the first one. It's just like I even we're watching, I was like, let's just take a moment to let him read that because it's a great moment of just, like, people don't talk like that anymore. It's we talked about the twisting of those words in the wrong people's heads.
T.C.:Yeah. I just think and then we even created that with our looking to the stars moments and and the so having a moment of reflection in in a fourth movie. Yeah. I like that. Yep.
T.C.:Of course, I like it.
Jim:Appreciate it. So Vietnam, World War two, World War one, the civil war, the revolution or do we put another battle in there?
T.C.:I mean, if you wanna go with those key key wars, yes. There's plenty of other skirmishes we got ourselves involved in over time.
Jim:Well, but specifically, I think the the through line is is the notion of freedom Mhmm. And democracy. Mhmm. Because Mhmm. The opponent that we faced, at least ideally, at least at least what we tell ourselves, was tyranny.
T.C.:Yeah. Yeah. Authoritarianism, fascism, like, that's what we're crushing freedom. Freedom is Yeah. The
Jim:Because they're they're trying to take it Mhmm. From us. The the the the opponent ideologically is set against us.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:So if each of those are pivotal well, Vietnam's the that that's why, like, it does go back that Vietnam's the hard one. We we
T.C.:Right. We were the usurpers. We
Jim:were we were drunkards. Giving. We were giving freedom instead of protecting it.
T.C.:We're giving you freedom.
Jim:I mean, we were protecting South Vietnam from
T.C.:It's it's a
Jim:That's a sticky one.
T.C.:It's a sticky one. Yeah. It's a little touchy subject, but, yeah, the the it's the how how fantastical of a nature can we go into these these points in time without Mhmm. Without disrespecting them. Yeah.
T.C.:That's why
Jim:The I and the the other ones I chose, I feel like they're more righteous. We we can find theaters where it's more righteous.
T.C.:Mhmm. And and, you know, maybe that comes into play narratively to say, like, it's these wars for freedom that because even, like, I I you're right. Vietnam and therefore, Desert Storm and now take it or leave it, however you wanna view it through the lens of history, giving you freedom as opposed to helping you fight for freedom. There's, you know, there's fuzzy lines here.
Jim:Right. And they're they're right. You could you could say we were fighting to to save the Ku Kuwaitis Yeah. From Yeah. Iraqi tyranny.
Jim:Yeah. And that can be true, but also our our presence there was sus.
T.C.:Right. And that's the nicest way to put it. So perhaps it is those those older wars that we Mhmm. Maybe it maybe Vietnam or Korea being the forgotten war. Maybe maybe somewhere in that era is where the secret, like, was handed to Patrick, whatever this whatever this secret is.
T.C.:We don't we actually haven't even said what it is.
Jim:Yeah. We created Maybe it's not a family secret. Yeah. Maybe maybe it's a secret that has been passed down by soldiers.
T.C.:Yes. Yeah. Something like that. And and and it would have stopped there because if the theme is legacy as well as freedom. Yeah.
Jim:And this one, I know we're not going into the details with with all of the beats, but Yeah. This one can go back to March.
T.C.:Yeah. Yes. I'm in. Damn it. Yeah.
T.C.:Maybe that's it. Maybe it's the maybe it's that element of, like, of the of the the secret soldier, like, the the the soldier who sacrifices everything. The idea of of the original Secret Service in March and, like, were were specifically selected soldiers by Washington that he knew no matter what, and I never need to know, I know that you will always fight for the for freedom and independence and then the true American way. Mhmm. I don't need to know what you're doing to do it.
T.C.:They are this clandestine way of handling.
Jim:Well, and in in our national treasure for here, it's not just it's not just that. What they're doing is they're protecting a secret.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:I don't know what that is. Mhmm. But that that's that's what we got so far. Yeah. I I yeah.
Jim:Like I said, I don't I we don't have a whole one here. Mhmm. I mean, I don't how much longer we're gonna go here. We can we can do wanted to give something a little different. Like, I we got two demands that were sort of for the same thing.
Jim:Right. Right.
T.C.:But Based on,
Jim:like fifteen years apart, they they I didn't feel right saying you two share this sandwich.
T.C.:Sure. Sure. You're right. Yeah. So so to Marissa, who didn't specifically say 2010 that we could do something set in 2025.
T.C.:You're right. And I I I could go to the I'll when we're doing the the sign off, I'll find that we had at least five other national treasure demands on. I'll just get I'll get your names, specifically because these have been coming in since season one. So just giving a tip of the hat to the people who've also sent demands. And I won't read the demands.
T.C.:I'll just get your names. I'll bring the spreadsheet up. Yeah. Also, the fascination Ben had with the treasure as a kid Mhmm. There could be an element of fascination in Sam for that, like, secret spy, that spy, that American, that that that that shadow figure.
T.C.:Maybe there's some fascination in that. Maybe the the admiration of three fifty five as a character.
Jim:Yeah. Well, I'd almost rather have her discover three fifty five through this adventure. Mhmm. I like the
T.C.:idea that three fifty five is ends up being like, they cross paths with the current one.
Jim:Ah. Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Go ahead.
Jim:Ahead. You said But you you bring up a a fun notion, the idea that her dad is fascinated by treasure. He's he's fascinated by secrets uncovered. Mhmm. Whereas she is the opposite.
Jim:She's she's fascinated by secrets kept.
T.C.:Yeah. That's that's a fun little twist there and and creates for a a different enough characterization to play with.
Jim:And a good friction between between parents and
T.C.:child. Share this. We're share this. Listen. Yeah.
Jim:No. No, dad. This needs to this needs to stay stay secret.
T.C.:Yeah. I love that. That's great. That's really fun fun notion there. Yeah.
T.C.:Well, let's let's call it here. And Marissa with two s's, not one, and Justin incoherently grunting. How do we do? We want to know what you think of that. Did we meet the demands for today?
T.C.:You can hit us up if you agree or disagree or please. What did we miss here? What what what connective tissue that that we that we didn't have that you wanna point out to us? You can message us directly at studio demands it dot com or on Instagram at studiodemandsit. If you're not already, you can subscribe to us on all the podcasts, catchers of your choice.
T.C.:And if you like giving us a little review, you can do that in app and help us get into the algorithm. You can find us on YouTube and TikTok where we post video content including material here on the show. Jim, what do you got? You you got something?
Jim:No. I'm thinking about well, they didn't really did they globetrot in the first one? I guess they weren't in Antarctica to begin with. Yeah.
T.C.:Yeah.
Jim:But that was the only then they were just in the America. Right?
T.C.:Yeah. The second one is when they went to Paris. Yeah. The other one, they they stayed mostly in. The second one, they went to Paris.
T.C.:First one there. Yeah. Yeah. You threw me for a loop there because this is normally where you talk about Reddit and Discord, and then later I
Jim:Oh, I'm sorry. You were I I was I was thinking about stuff. Yes. I got some stuff. You can join the conversation on on Reddit at r slash studio demands it.
Jim:Yep. And you can also join us on our Discord by going to our web pagestudiodemandsit.com, and there's a link to the server at the top. Just click on that and then pop on in.
T.C.:Lon, Jaster, Paul Holm, Marcel, Patrick, and Jason Rubin also all asked for national treasure type demands.
Jim:I hope you guys like this episode as well. Yep. Let us know what you think of these and and how on or off they were from your demand.
T.C.:And if you want even more, can head over to Patreon for a couple bucks a month. You can get episodes early, commercial free, extended double length episodes. We did a nice half hour conversation about, independent film from Troma to Today. We also have commentary tracks that are available to either sync up with your movies or skip and just go to the end of the commentary to listen to bonus conversations about said film and not necessarily demands, but occasionally our we meet our own demands in there. And you can also just subscribe for free on Patreon to get notifications as well as the occasional suddenly conversations.
T.C.:Massive thank you to Six Five Media for everything they do for us. Please check out the other Six Five shows. Now, Jim, you were thinking about other things. Was it the Globetrotting one? That was it?
Jim:Yeah. That's that's it. Okay. That was the only thing.
T.C.:Well, if that's it then, that's it for the episode. So thank you everyone for listening. We'll be back again soon to take on one of your demands as our Hollywood overlords.
Jim:Cinema. Damn it. I was trying to get you to do
T.C.:the overlord. The challenger
Jim:That's at the beginning.
T.C.:I know. And I screwed that
Jim:whole thing.
T.C.:Remember how weird that first three minutes was?
Jim:No. Don't remember
T.C.:Let's let's remember that for a second. Okay. Good times. Alright. I'm TC.
Jim:Hi. I'm Jim.
T.C.:And that's how we awkwardly end a show.
Jim:That was actually a pretty good ending.