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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016. Sonia is now the founder of EverBlume, a digital tool that offers a unique approach to alcohol recovery support.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Her online platform EverBlume launched in February 2023, and was featured in Recovery Today Magazine and deemed an ‘essential sobriety resource’ by the FemTech Insider.
The company champions self-improvement and mindful sobriety, with support groups designed by and for women struggling with alcohol.
So how can EverBlume help you meet your sober community? By offering deeply personalized support. Members get matched based on their profiles and life experiences, and take part in small group sessions (max. 16 people). In your support group, you will meet like-minded women, discuss your experiences, and gain confidence, knowing you can rely on your peers in times of need.
Whether you identify as a binge drinker, someone who developed a habit during the Covid-19 pandemic, a high-functioning alcoholic, or an anxious person using alcohol to self-soothe… There is a support group for you!
Current EverBlume members have praised the company’s unique approach to alcohol detox. “No one is judging me for not being sure I want to be sober for the rest of my life” ; “I felt so heard and understood and today I woke up feeling empowered to make the change in my life”.
Feeling inspired? Learn more about the EverBlume sobriety community at joineverblume.com, or simply listen to Sisters In Sobriety.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia: Welcome to Sisters in Sobriety and today we're [00:01:00] excited to welcome Courtney Anderson, the founder and host of the hit podcast Sober Vibes with 12 years of personal experience in alcohol recovery, Courtney has become a trusted guide for those starting their own journeys. Her new book,
[00:01:15] Sonia: Sober Vibes, a guide to thriving in your first 90 days without alcohol, is packed with practical tools like journal prompts, daily exercises, and homework, all aimed at helping readers overcome the mental, physical, and emotional challenges of early sobriety. Broken down into three structured phases, the book provides everything you need to successfully navigate the first three months of sobriety.
[00:01:39] Sonia: Hi Courtney, we're so excited you're here!
[00:01:42] Courtney: Hi, thank you. That was a lot of sober
[00:01:44] Sonia: Yeah!
[00:01:45] Courtney: I mean, you see, you see how the brand, it's like consistent. So yes. So I'm excited to talk to you.
[00:01:51] Sonia: Yes. Me too. And I actually use the term sober vibes a lot. people will be like, Oh, what are you doing tonight? And if I'm journaling and doing stuff, I'm like, just sober vibes, lighting some [00:02:00] candle.
[00:02:01] Courtney: Yes. I love it because listen, sobriety is a vibe. Quitting drinking is a vibe like, you know, so, and it's just a different way to look at it.
[00:02:11] Courtney: and an empowering way, right? Like not that it's like because sobriety is not all doom and gloom It's a choice that you're making for yourself to better yourself.
[00:02:20] Sonia: Yeah. Somebody said to me last week, I was complaining about working out. I was like, I know I have to work out, but, and they said, what if you, what if you switched it and said to yourself, I get to work out.
[00:02:31] Courtney: Yeah.
[00:02:31] Sonia: I do say that about being sober. I get to be sober.
[00:02:34] Courtney: Yeah It's like sobriety is happening For you not to you, right?
[00:02:40] Sonia: yeah. Yeah. It was funny. I still havethose moments, like yesterday was my birthday and I went out with some friends, but let's be honest, by 11 o'clock I was like watching Netflix about to go to sleep.
[00:02:49] Sonia: Yeah. So, Courtney, can you tell us a little bit about your own drinking journey and when you realized alcohol was becoming a problem for you?
[00:02:59] Courtney: Sure. [00:03:00] Um, so I quit drinking on August 18th of 2012 at, I was 29, about six weeks shy of turning 30, right? And then, but I knew alcohol was a problem for me at 25. There was a, I woke up after a night of drinking and I just knew That there was gonna be a day that I had to quit drinking alcohol. I didn't know how it was gonna happen I didn't know when it was gonna happen I didn't know what it was gonna look like right like I just knew in the pit of my stomach and my That intuitive voice was saying to me like you are not going to drink alcohol so Rewind to when I was 19 years old, I was a late bloomer.
[00:03:42] Courtney: I mean, I smoked pot in high school, but it wasn't, I never drank. I drank like a couple of times, but when you live in the suburbs of Detroit, you get to go over to Canada, um, at 19 and this is, you know, pre 9, 11, and you get to go over to Canada and drink [00:04:00] in Windsor and the drinking age in Canada is 19.
[00:04:02] Sonia: It sure is.
[00:04:04] Courtney: yes, so.
[00:04:06] Courtney: Canada like we talked about before. Um, and so I, that is when I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the bar scene. I fell in love with how alcohol made me feel right. Like I felt like I could finally be free. Like it took off that shyness for me. Right. And so, You know, it didn't start off, it didn't start off that night of like, terrible stuff, right?
[00:04:32] Courtney: I wasn't even hungover the next day, and like, I barely slept that night, and it started off very innocently, and I think that that does for many people. It starts off like, this is just what we do. And then through the years it grew into something darker. So that's why by 25, like I had, I had already woken up in hospitals.
[00:04:53] Courtney: I had, you know, woken up into dude's beds. I didn't know their names, but obviously we slept together. [00:05:00] Like I had that shame and guilt building and building and building. And then at 25, it was just like, because at that time my hangover started to turn into straight tears. Panic attacks, I will never forget.
[00:05:12] Courtney: I will never forget my first panic attack. I was on a 3 day bender because then 2 for a period, a couple of years. I really loved cocaine. and I was on this bender and then I had asked my roommate. I was like, I am having a heart attack. I was calling out of my skin, like, showed up to this urgent care.
[00:05:30] Courtney: And I was like, I need something doctor. Right? and they didn't eat KG. They're like, you're fine. I think you're having a heart attack. An anxiety slash panic attack, right? So my roommate just gave me Xanax. I was like, I feel
[00:05:41] Sonia: Yeah, thank God there's more drugs to help with this. I always felt that way about cocaine. I was like, oh you can take something for
[00:05:48] Courtney: Right, right. But and that mo and she was even before she's like, okay, I'll take you but I just think that you're having an anxiety attack.
[00:05:55] Courtney: So it turned into that for me where it was then [00:06:00] not every hangover I had was like an extent of a panic attack, but it was always the anxiety the next day. And then my hangovers would last like a couple days. And then from 25 to 29 time. I did this crazy dance called moderation. I try to moderate my drinking.
[00:06:16] Courtney: I tried to put so many rules on myself, like, all right, make sure you eat because we know. When you don't eat, you're gonna do the most, right? You're gonna throw furniture at your friends and a drunken blackout. there was a lot more blacking out as time went on. Um, there was no, there was no off switch for me.
[00:06:36] Courtney: I could instantly feel after I had one cocktail. It was like, all right, we're on, right? And so then it was like, don't drink whiskey. Don't mix beer and wine together, right? okay, just drink one, one night a week. Like, Oh my God, you made it seven days. Good for you. You don't have a problem. Right? So like it was in that cycle.
[00:06:55] Courtney: And what would happen is the same stuff would happen over and over again. Right? Like [00:07:00] if I look back at my drinking career, And that active relationship I had with alcohol, that very toxic I don't live with much regret cause I look back and I don't, I don't shame all of my time with drinking because 10 percent of the time I had some really fun moments.
[00:07:18] Courtney: There was some really fun concerts. I, I saw, I had some really fun moments with friends, so I don't ever, just try to push that down because that was the life I lived and it was okay I mean a lot of help I've had to get me to the place that I am with Being okay with all that had happened in that 10 year time time frame.
[00:07:38] Courtney: So by 29 years old I had my last night of drinking at the bar I worked at. I was, I was going into the nine to five world and full time in the medical field. And so my boyfriend at the time, he was like, please don't get all messed up. Like, just, you know, don't start taking shots right away. And of course I was like, no, no, no.
[00:07:59] Courtney: And of course I went [00:08:00] in there. I was like, give me, Uh, Red Bull and cherry bombs like I used to love and like the thought of that and I'm probably outdating myself here now, like, you know, that's I love cherry bombs, people, Irish car bombs, cherry bombs. I loved so.
[00:08:16] Sonia: talking about?
[00:08:17] Courtney: Yes, right, like I never even hit the stage of the game of the cinnamon
[00:08:23] Sonia: Oh, the fireball.
[00:08:26] Courtney: I have never taught and my sister even said to me one time she was like, I'm so thankful you did not enter. You did not have that touch your lips because I used to love Jameson as well. She was like, you would have lost your mind with fireball, which
[00:08:39] Sonia: would have been, yeah, would have been the end. I think I was like, I was petering out towards the fireball era. I could no longer do shots when the fireball started. Yeah, I'm probably pretty lucky.
[00:08:50] Courtney: Right, exactly. Same, me too. And to, my drinking, because everyone thinks that, like, you need to be a daily drinker to have a problem, and that is not the case. There were [00:09:00] periods in that ten years that I did drink every day, but towards the end there, those last couple years, you could consider me on what is on the alcohol use disorder spectrum as a binge drinker.
[00:09:12] Courtney: That, that'sc what I was.
[00:09:13] Sonia: so I think for me, for that, my decade, right? I drank every day. And so it was pretty like black and white to say I had a problem, but I'm sure you talked to a lot of people who are trying moderation. When, what are some signs for you that moderation is not working?
[00:09:31] Courtney: When moderation no longer works, or it's not working, it's that you keep finding yourself. back in the same spot where you're like,I need to like try to cap this. Right. Like I, I need to try to fix this. So like, you know, a lot with the moderation game, that is brutal. It is brutal because all you are doing is torturing yourself.
[00:09:53] Courtney: Again, putting rules on your drinking. Right. You ending up in the same spot that you ended up with [00:10:00] before the time where you're like, I need to to quit drinking. The emotional dependency that you find yourself with booze. Everyone wants to be like, well, I'm not physically dependent. I'm not sitting there shaking, living under a bridge, being like, give me some quarters, right?
[00:10:18] Courtney: Like panhandling, like that is not the case. you might not have a Physical dependency on alcohol, but everybody has emotional dependency and look at that. How are you coping as being a mom? Uh, your only fun is revolving around alcohol, right? Like, and then you get into the cycle to where all you're thinking about is drinking when you can, you get there.
[00:10:38] Courtney: The next drink and then then you're all you're thinking about is the fallout afterwards and like why did I do my do this to myself, you know, it's just a big, big cycle and it's torturous. So you really do find pure freedom when you just give up drinking for good and walk through the process of sobriety.
[00:10:58] Courtney: And that's that's where I [00:11:00] was for 4 years. And it was hell. It was hell because it was like, I was just kidding myself, you know, it's, I didn't need to get down on my knees and be like, I, I'm an alcoholic. That's not what I needed. I needed for myself to see this substance and me are no longer working. When I drink, X, Y, and Z happens. Nothing changes.
[00:11:25] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:11:26] Courtney: So those are just a couple of the moderation. But a lot of mental energy is put on thinking about alcohol when you try the moderation game.
[00:11:34] Sonia: Or like bargaining, like if I don't drink for two, three days, I can have three, four drinks on like Friday night.
[00:11:41] Courtney: Another one too, it becomes, it's a reward system. That is a problem, how alcohol is looked at or it's, it's conditioned into us as a reward. Like, all right, I was good Monday through Friday. So now it's time for me to have my drinks.
[00:11:56] Sonia: So, so for people that have tried [00:12:00] moderation and are starting to think, this isn't working, I'm going to have to. And they're trying to make this decision. what were the hardest parts of that for you? When you really were, you know, within the weeks leading up to it?
[00:12:15] Courtney: It had nothing to do about the weeks leading up to it. For me, it was that moment. So when I woke up the next day after that night, I woke up to two of my best friends being like court. You lost you lost Fiona. That's my cat. And they're like, and Matt is pissed. So I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they leave, right, because I was still hammered.
[00:12:36] Courtney: That was like one, that's still to this day is like one of the worst hangovers of my life. Another worst hangover. Go to Colorado, Denver with that altitude hangover is like horrendous.
[00:12:49] Sonia: Yeah. I, you know what's funny? Yeah, my last, My last hangover was one of the worst I had and I don't know if it was like the volume I drank or like the state of mind I was in or the [00:13:00] age I was getting to.
[00:13:01] Courtney: I think it's all of the above. I really do. I think it's all of the above. But so, so come to find out, I did lose my rescue cat. And I have to say rescue cat because I rescued this cat from the streets. I lost her for a second time. I went out to go smoke a cigarette that night in a blackout and I left the sliding glass door open.
[00:13:21] Courtney: And apparently I threatened my boyfriend that night. I was standing over our bed saying I wanted to kill him. Like how rude.
[00:13:29] Sonia: rude. Not homicidal, but like rude. Yeah.
[00:13:36] Courtney: know, who wants to wake up to that? So in that moment, I'm listening to this from my boyfriend at the time. And I'm like, okay. And so Fiona was missing and I. Because of course, then comes the guilt, then comes the anxiety, then comes all of the shame. So what happened was, I had 10 years, like, rushed to me at that point of my drinking history, and I made a [00:14:00] pact with the universe, and I was like, if I find Fiona, I'm gonna give up drinking for good.
[00:14:05] Courtney: The boyfriend at the time too was like, listen, we live together. We were together for a year and an hour in a relation for a relationship for a year and a half. And he was like, look, he was like, if you want to keep drinking, keep drinking, but I'm not going to be in this relationship anymore. Like he had had it at that point.
[00:14:21] Courtney: It wasn't the first time I threatened to kill him. It wasn't the first time I lost the cat. It wasn't the first time I said I wasn't going to drink that much. Right. So at that point, he went through like a straight year of the roller coaster of alcohol and me. So. Come to I find Fiona on the third day and that was that was it I I'm I've made a pact and that boyfriend is my husband and Fiona's still alive to this day
[00:14:48] Sonia: Oh my god, that's a lovely story. That
[00:14:53] Courtney: Yes, right. but it was just what happened in that moment. Like I said, it was 10 [00:15:00] years of decisions and how, when I put alcohol in my body, what would happen now? Not everybody has those, that story. Not everybody has these extremes where they get a DUI, right. Or end up in jail. Now, like everybody's point of view. Of, um, rock bottom. Everyone has a rock bottom. I know people are against rock bottom, but everybody has a rock bottom in some way with alcohol. Your rock bottom just might be severe anxiety or just like, my husband's starting to notice how much I'm drinking. It's too much. I'm blacking out the night before with my kids.
[00:15:38] Courtney: So, like, everybody's rock bottom is different. So that was, that was mine where I'm just like, and I like rock bottom and I, to use with the term of describing like where you were at in that point of, you no longer wanted to participate in that ride anymore with alcohol. So you chose different.
[00:15:58] Sonia: Yeah, that's [00:16:00] exactly it. I agree. I think everyone has a rock bottom. Sometimes it's psychological. It doesn't mean like waking up in a jail cell or a hospital. But, so,
[00:16:07] Courtney: Right, exactly.
[00:16:08] Sonia: I love talking about the first 90 days, because I really, I really did them like they hurt. Like the first 90 days were really, really rough and I looking back like a wish I had had more structure or more understanding or more community, more, more everything to understanding why it was so hard.
[00:16:30] Sonia: What were like the early days like maybe like even the first 30 for you and what What do you think people can expect from those first 30?
[00:16:40] Courtney: Well, and that's why in my book, I write about the first 90 days and I take a part, I take the reader for the first 30, 60, 90, and it is all about expect expectations and to you figuring out in those first 90 days of work, what works best for you. But listen, the first 90 days of this are the hardest you will ever [00:17:00] go
[00:17:00] Sonia: So bad
[00:17:02] Courtney: yeah, and a lot of people think like I gave up drinking alcohol. I should instantly be a okay on day one and that is not the case You will for anybody listening if you are I I want anybody to know that quitting drinking alcohol. You need to talk to a medical professional you need to talk to a doctor about withdrawal and detox because I don't know who's listening andI What alcohol withdrawals can lead to death and that's not to scare people.
[00:17:32] Courtney: That is an extreme, right? But like their alcohol withdrawals is very serious so and I don't know how much a listener is drinking because I was the type where I'm like go to the doctor's like How many
[00:17:44] Sonia: Oh yeah,
[00:17:45] Courtney: like two two more like 25 to 30
[00:17:49] Sonia: Oh my god, it would be like, yeah, frequency, it was like, socially on the weekends. that's what I would put for that.
[00:17:57] Courtney: Mm hmm. Right, like one bottle of wine. So [00:18:00] those first 30 days, here's one of two ways you're gonna go. You're gonna, you're gonna get that pink cloud. Good for you. I never had the pink cloud. And the, the pink cloud is you feel this euphoria, okay? But here's what I'm going to tell you about the pink cloud.
[00:18:14] Courtney: You are going to, that bubble is going to burst within time. It might not happen until eight, nine, ten months into that first year, but when it bursts, you will come crashing down and be like, what? What is going on? And it's just waking up to a reality. So you are in this euphoric feeling. If you don't catch on the pink cloud, you then are, it's going to be, you're going to go through post withdrawal.
[00:18:36] Courtney: Um, it's called POS, post acute withdrawal syndrome. And that is a period of detox. So. Lots of rest, lots of water. You need to hydrate yourself. You need to sit your ass down. And when I say that, you still don't need to be doing the most of getting out there in the world. This is a process of healing. This is a process of recovering and [00:19:00] having to understand that A lot of people have put alcohol into their systems on a daily basis, weekly basis for 10, 20, 30 years.
[00:19:11] Courtney: We have been poisoning ourselves. Okay. This isn't, this isn't a judgment because I did it myself, but you, I want people to understand the process. After you quit drinking and so your body is going to go through some things. You might experience some intense anxiety. You know, uh, feelings are going to start coming to the surface.
[00:19:31] Courtney: This is what happens in 30 days where you're like, why am I crying? Cry, let it out. You know what I mean? Like you got to cry and let it out. And this is all a process. The, the sooner you get support and your sobriety, the better off you would be. If you did this, the support is going to help whatever that looks like for you, whatever you're comfortable with.
[00:19:54] Courtney: If you choose to go through a therapist, you choose to go through an online group, you choose to do the 12 [00:20:00] steps, you choose to do a sober coach, you choose to talk to your mother and she is your support. So whatever the case may be, you need some type of support because it's very easy to feel very Alone in those first couple months and you go through the process to then like of like why is this happening to me?
[00:20:20] Courtney: It's easier for you to start bargaining with yourself like after 30 days like oh I didn't really have a problem because that's what your drinking brain will start telling you after a certain time like Look at you. You didn't have a problem. There was no extreme rock bottom of what you've heard You know, through the years of people who've had extreme rock bottoms, that wasn't you.
[00:20:40] Courtney: And at the end of the day, especially for women, a lot of women are high functioning. And then what happens is they hit perimenopause and menopause and it just goes downhill.
[00:20:51] Courtney: So I know for me, um, I was 38 when I quit. And so I, my big issue was I had like no coping mechanisms [00:21:00] for stress. And so, um, my most difficult times were when I would get home from work and the combination of that habit, right? Like opening a bottle of wine while I would make dinner and then also like it helping me de stress, um, those were the hardest hours for me.
[00:21:16] Sonia: And I did. the weirdest shit. Like, I painted my front door. I, made wreaths. just all sorts of craft projects. But then there's also that, social kind of aspect that I, for me, I avoided in the first 90 days. But what were the biggest hurdles for you in the first 90 days in terms of, lifestyle, change?
[00:21:37] Courtney: I mean, definitely those witching that witching hour for me at that point. It was that Friday night, Friday. I'm like was crawling out of my skin, but I also to sat my ass down. And a lot of my drinking was out and very social, right? Like it was the act going to dinner, going to the bar. Bars, being in the scene, blah, blah, blah.
[00:21:59] Courtney: [00:22:00] So on Fridays, because we all have a day that's most triggering, on Fridays it was like, oh my god. So what I did for 90 days was I did crafts. I had to, I had, I had to Google hobbies because I had
[00:22:14] Sonia: Me
[00:22:14] Courtney: And like legit google hobbies where matt came home and he was like, what are you doing? I was on the couch and I was like i'm googling hobbies He and he starts laughing and I was like, I don't have any all i've known My whole life is to work or drink like that's what I did, right?
[00:22:30] Courtney: So and and he's very artistic. So he helped me come up with so I modged podge stuff Okay, and then at that time because we're going back to 2012 Um Streaming just was starting, so I had to stop watching My Beloved Housewives, I had to stop watching Bravo for a hot minute because it was too triggering,
[00:22:50] Sonia: That's funny. I watch a, I watch every show. Every Bravo. Every single one. Yeah. What just happened last night? Oh, salt Lake City. Yeah. I [00:23:00] haven't seen that one yet.
[00:23:00] Courtney: Salt Lake City I'll watch today before I go pick up my
[00:23:03] Sonia: I can't believe those Mormons, those Mormons are drinking. It's like, I can't get away from it.
[00:23:07] Courtney: I know like the new Mormons, how they define it for themselves. Um, so, so I binge watched Friday night lights, great show. And I just went through the process of sitting down, right? and, and, and even to going out to eat during that time, because I also had a history of working in the service industry, but I was with somebody who was a nine to fiver where he wanted to go out to eat on a Friday, Saturday night.
[00:23:32] Courtney: I'm like, this is torturous. And I'm going to tell everybody this. Business or this little biz insider tip never go out to dinner on a friday or saturday night You are going to get the worst service ever go on a sunday before Like after the church crowd before the dinner crowd like that is great timing to get excellent service, right?
[00:23:51] Courtney: like or go on a tuesday night because also too and if you're in the process of quitting like there were even times where I would do like [00:24:00] When the gray hairs were out On a Saturday afternoon, and that's a good time to before that dinner crowd and that became more enjoyable because I wasn't sitting there because I was still in a fight or flight mode, because you have to level off your, uh, nervous system.
[00:24:15] Courtney: It's just, it's a lot of healing process. So, Restaurants were triggering to me, so I just did some things where I just adjusted the time I went, and the day I went, but Fridays became a thing where I would come home from work, do my moshposh, bake something, and just stay home, and get through it, and just be like, okay, another, wake up another morning, I'm grateful for another day, I got through another weekend.
[00:24:41] Courtney: And then within time, it became easier, because what you do is start living, you're living this sober life.
[00:24:48] Sonia: Yeah, no, that's it.it snowballs into like other healthier things I always tell people, I let's not do it all in one day. we're not going to get sober, go vegan, start weight training, like in the first [00:25:00] 90 days.
[00:25:00] Sonia: Um, but yeah, the better you feel, then the more you want to do like healthy things. Thanks.
[00:25:08]
[00:25:37] Courtney: that first year I let myself, I let myself eat what I wanted. I allowed myself the feelings, you need to rest. It because, doing it on all in one thing is, what you don't understand is you're creating an overwhelm. The process. Sobriety in the process of quitting drinking is hard enough when you already have on, let's say your kids, you [00:26:00] work, you're 9 to 5, you know what I mean, you have a, you have a partner, like, you already have things going on in your life that you need to take care of, and I believe that a lot of people have this thought of, I get sober and I need to do this, this, and this, and this, this, and the process is, you get sober and you need to,
[00:26:19] Sonia: Mm hmm.
[00:26:22] Courtney: So I just made it to that year and I was like, all right, cool. Now I'm going to work on my nutrition and fitness. Now I'm going to start taking care of myself. Right. Then the third year, I'm like, now I'm going to start working on my personal development. I got two years down. I need to start then, like really going through this process of healing and rebuilding myself back up.
[00:26:41] Courtney: So People probably are annoyed with me when I was like, this is a process. I just had this talk with a client who, uh, she just did a session with me the other day and she's two years sober. And I started with her at day one and I was like, you're exactly where you need to be emotionally.
[00:26:57] Courtney: Like she was bringing all this stuff up. And I was like, this [00:27:00] is the accuracy of the timeline that you were on. And she was like, okay, good to know. so there is a timeline and there's a process and you cannot rush it. You need to just. Chill in those 90 days. You might need to have to avoid situations, but you avoiding situations in those first 90 days is actually going to help you for when you get to year one, two, three, four, five, where you can put yourself in those situations and be like, I'm cool.
[00:27:26] Courtney: I can stay out till 11 o'clock at night, hang with my friends in a drinking environment, and it doesn't affect me. Doesn't affect me
[00:27:34] Sonia: And so I know you talk about your husband and like date night, but that's sort of a pivotal time, right? 29, 30, what was going on and what would you tell people to expect about like changes in their social life?
[00:27:48] Courtney: [00:28:00] Well, I always recommend for people to do that their first 30 days do a social detox like yes to just sit down for this because it's like You know what? I mean to put yourself into a drinking environment after five days. All you're doing is again Playing, playing, you're making it harder for yourself. I get it.
[00:28:39] Courtney: If you have to do something for like work or something, and then that's where I call it. I coined it the 60 minute rule where you can stay somewhere for an hour, get your fix and then go home before you're triggered. Um, but, yeah, your social life is going to change. It's going to adjust. Not ever. You are not going to quit drinking alcohol.
[00:28:57] Courtney: And then again, continue to do the [00:29:00] same things that you were doing and be the exact same person. Because then guess what? You never quit drinking alcohol.
[00:29:05] Sonia: Uh,
[00:29:06] Courtney: It's a huge lifestyle change, and it's a great lifestyle change for the better because all you're doing is bettering yourself. this is where I empower people.
[00:29:14] Courtney: And I talk about it, too, in my book. change the narrative with your friends. Ask them to go to a breakfast. Ask them to go get coffee. Go for a hike. Go for a walk. Go see a movie with a friend. Go ask a friend if they want to go get pedicure. Stop sitting there waiting for them to be like, okay, well, do you want to do this?
[00:29:32] Courtney: We're going out to eat because they're still doing the same old same. So you have to start creating the life that you want and that's not going to trigger you, right? So people really need to take that control and start asking people to go do something different with them.
[00:29:49] Sonia: Yeah, I completely agree with that. So let's talk about a little bit about the book. So the first 90 days, is it based on someone setting a quit date? Is it based on them trying [00:30:00] to taper for a period of time? how do you look at, let's say the first few days of the, of the 90?
[00:30:06] Courtney: My book is really designed to, again, take the reader for what fits them and of the help that is out there, there's a lot of journal prompts in there because you really do have to condition your mind. You really have to condition your brain and the best, the best way possible of understanding where alcohol took you and remembering that because a lot of people want to forget.
[00:30:29] Courtney: That's why I told you I'll never forget about my drinking days. And so, You, you don't want to forget that. I'm not saying live in shame. I'm not saying live in a very traumatic experience where, you know, there's sexual assault going on. I'm not saying that. I'm saying, you need to remember that where alcohol took you, even if it was just one of the worst hangovers of your life or that you just don't want to feel that way anymore.
[00:30:53] Courtney: So really the book is about deciding, you know, I come from a place like if you slip, you slip. [00:31:00] It's part of a process for many people and also two of just like a quick like throwing some stats out there. 80 percent of people who say that they're going to quit drinking and enter in sobriety and recovery end up relapsing.
[00:31:13] Courtney: So that's why I'm a firm believer. There's the process of quitting drinking and then there's the sobriety recovery aspect of it. I was in the process of quitting drinking for four years.
[00:31:24] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:31:25] Courtney: I didn't know it, though.
[00:31:27] Sonia: Yeah. Oh, I totally know. from the first time I Googled the, am I an alcoholic on a Monday morning to when I actually quit was, was years. Yeah.
[00:31:39] Courtney: right. I mean, I used to sit watching intervention hung over and be like, please somebody help me.
[00:31:46] Sonia: Or I think sometimes I would watch Intervention to be like, that's not me. I would accept the help you're giving to me, but it was almost like on purpose to watch people who I thought were like, quote unquote, worse than me. [00:32:00] Yeah.
[00:32:00] Courtney: Yeah, because, and that's the thing. and that's why high functioning, we're the worst of the worst. because it is. And it's one of those things of like, well, I mean, I'm still, I'm, I still got a roof over my head, blah, blah, blah. But you cannot keep living like that.
[00:32:15] Courtney: There's a part where it crumbles, right? So, so really, my book takes the reader and it meets them with where they're at. It's all about meeting the person with where they're at, because not everybody's in the same, in the same spot. Not everybody has the same type of support system around. Not everybody has the same It's the same type, you know, not everybody's financial situation is the same.
[00:32:36] Courtney: Not everybody has the same type of trauma. So like it really is about meeting that person with where they're at and really coming up with a plan and you working through that timeframe for you. So and like I said, there's a process of quitting drinking alcohol and then there's the sobriety aspect process.
[00:32:54] Sonia: And so I love to give as much like advice, um, about those things. really major [00:33:00] cravings during those early days and the types of like self care you can do. And so I've had clients that literally lived in a bubble bath for the first like 30 days and for some people that works for me.
[00:33:13] Sonia: Like I drank a lot of tea, like just like simple things that bring you that peace. Cause a craving lasts like 20 minutes. If you can get through those 20 minutes, how do you, how do you look at Cravings at the beginning. Yeah.
[00:33:31] Courtney: Alcohol is one of the most highly addictive substances. And I speak from a place of truth, don't think because you're going to quit drinking alcohol, then that's like, okay, goodbye, everything, right? this is really where it's, it's, it's crazy because it's such a highly addictive substance.
[00:33:47] Courtney: And then not only when you quit drinking alcohol, you not only have those cravings for alcohol, you then have cravings for sugar because You were putting sugar in your body for years and years and then women beat themselves up about like, [00:34:00] Oh my God, it's been two months and I still have these cravings.
[00:34:02] Courtney: It's like, again, you were putting booze into your body for 20 years. That is a long time to have both like a sugar and then the alcohol cravings, But this is what it is. That substance alcohol is an addiction. Addictive substance and it doesn't matter who you are.
[00:34:20] Courtney: So like when it comes to the cravings, you have to write it out. Sometimes you're just going to have to scream in a pillow and you say a bunch of F bombs like this sucks. Why me? But I'm not, and that is okay to feel that way. I give people permission to be like, yeah, it does suck. It sucks.
[00:34:39] Sonia: too. I, tell people like this is gonna suck. maybe you've seen the stories of people who like wake up on like day three and start a non profit for people struggling with alcohol. But the realistic thing is it sucks. Yes.
[00:34:53] Courtney: You know, but I, and that too, I believe that everybody should take some time before jumping into something like that. I didn't start creating sober [00:35:00] vibes till I was six years sober. I needed to work on me. You know, I needed to figure out me before I started taking on other people's energy in the space and like, and not, and then I had to work on codependency too.
[00:35:11] Courtney: So there's like a lot that goes involved. This is what's crazy. You will quit drinking, and then you will understand why you drank, and then you start cracking, peeling back layers like an onion. There's so many layers to this process, and why you did, why you drank, and what happened, and, you know, the things you kind of pick up along the way, but yeah, the cravings, there, you gotta get through them.
[00:35:37] Courtney: Again, 7 to 20 minutes, they're gonna last for. Drink water go for a walk like going back to the witching hour I always tell people like do something during that time That's gonna keep your mind and your hands busy and like getting outside and getting I don't even care about steps Like just go outside and just go for a walk, right?
[00:35:58] Courtney: Listen to some [00:36:00] music like Dip into some music therapy because that's something that's not talked about enough, you know, like listen to some tunes and walk and then that like after an hour, you're going to be like, wow, I'm working with somebody right now where she used to work out in the morning. And then so the witching hour would be after work and I'm like you because you don't need to work out in the morning anymore Because you only worked out in the morning because that was the schedule with your kids your kids are now out of the house So let's flip that to start working out in the at post work time To fill that hour and a half of that witching hour and then you're gonna get great Natural dopamine hits that you're search, searching for, for, for booze.
[00:36:43] Courtney: You're going to get it the same if you go on a walk and do Pilates and it's working
[00:36:48] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:36:49] Courtney: you just have to flip your schedule around and stop doing the same old, same old that you've been doing. So like fill up that time, you know, and also this is another thing, [00:37:00] go to bed. Go to bed at 630 at night.
[00:37:04] Courtney: Put your put your ass in bed. I can't even tell you how many nights that I would just put I'm I'm like, good night, because at some at some point, you gotta just shut it down. you cannot sit there and,keep the insanity going. On those Friday nights, sometimes I would go to bed at 8.
[00:37:21] Courtney: Or at least if I was in my bed, I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna get out. I'm in my jammies, got my little sugar treats next to my nightstand, and I'm just gonna sit here and watch another episode of Friday Night Lights. So go to bed turn it off, but yeah that the the craving is not going to last forever and within time The farther you get away from you know that last night of drinking the cravings Will quiet they're still going to be there from time to time, but they get quiet and because then you start just living life
[00:37:57] Sonia: yeah. And I think, too, you have the tools. I remember, [00:38:00] two years ago, when I was going through my divorce, like I had the occasional craving, I wanted to like quiet my mind. And I remember my ex husband's stuff was in the garage and my ex mother in law came to move his stuff, like they had a moving truck.
[00:38:13] Sonia: And I remember like, and so she's downstairs in my house, in my garage. And I like text my sister in law, I was like, how early is too early to go to bed? And she's like, 6. 30. I was like, done. I can make it till 6. 30. I can make it till 6. 30. And I, it got into bed and felt great. I was like, I had my popcorn, I had like my journal, I had my iPad.
[00:38:34] Sonia: I watched some like Riverdale. and those techniques will be there for you. I feel like even years later.
[00:38:43] Courtney: Years later because sometimes too in life, you just need to go to bed early where you're just like, oh my god Like, you know, like where it's just like the weight of the world Especially in post 2020 times is heavy And so it's just like there's only so much you can take and then don't even get started [00:39:00] as this like you if you come from Dysfunction in your family like sometimes it's like you can't even take You know what I mean?
[00:39:05] Courtney: so it's just like, just go to bed and shut down, you know, shut down the phone, stop responding to people, just disassociate. I say disassociate in a healthy way. My sister and I joke about disassociating and one of our coping mechanisms, but it's not in a bad way. It's just like, I don't want to talk.
[00:39:23] Courtney: I am watching my stories. A. K. A. Bravo, leave me alone. I don't want to talk to anybody anymore. I just want, I just want to watch, uh, women argue and leave me alone. You know what I mean?
[00:39:35] Courtney: a bad
[00:39:36] Sonia: Yeah, I know there's this idea now, um, calling it emotional bypassing. And it's like, look, me watching 45 minutes of Real Housewives of Orange County, call it whatever you want. If it's emotional bypassing, I'll get to it. I will get to the emotions. sometimes you just need that emotional Pause.
[00:39:55] Sonia: But I think there, yeah, there's apparently a line, so I guess there's a line between eight hours of [00:40:00] housewives and two hours of housewives. But even sometimes I need the eight hours. Yes.
[00:40:09] Courtney: where it's hard nowadays because it's like, oh my God, and I've said this for a long time, even to that first year of sobriety, listen, if I'm going to eat a cupcake, it is better. I'm currently eating a cupcake than drinking.
[00:40:20] Courtney: That was kind of my, my motto of it, or like, if I need to shut down for a day, because also too, what happens is you, you start discovering who you are at your core, and it's like, oh, I'm more of an introvert. this is what I need, right? I always thought I was, I'm both. I'm like right in the middle.
[00:40:38] Courtney: And so then for a long time, I was like, Oh, and my sobriety was like, this is why I like to just not talk to people for a day, right? this is what I need to refuel my system and Same thing like a dude watching if I want to do a binge fest. It's not hurting my life It's not like this is like [00:41:00] taking it away and I think that that's where people get confused this is this is something that need those days in life.
[00:41:07] Courtney: it's not bad You
[00:41:08] Sonia: had like my, my sister was always trying to be healthier and cutting out sugar and she's like, you know, have you thought about cutting out sugar? I have a dessert every night after dinner. It's not crazy. It's not like I don't have a huge slice of cake. Sometimes I have a small slice of cake.
[00:41:21] Sonia: Sometimes it's chocolate. Sometimes it's ice cream. And I, I've said to her, I'm like, I have quit smoking. Drinking and drugs. And so if I wanna have some ice cream,
[00:41:35] Courtney: yeah,
[00:41:36] Sonia: do it. because emotionally, I still wanna be able to have this life where I experience joy from these things.
[00:41:44] Courtney: I, yeah, but you still like, and again, that's all everybody's probably got. And when people are like, well, what should I, like, what should I do for the sugar cravings? It's like, I just, I, I just tell a person, add in a vegetable, add in a vegetable. and eat a little bit [00:42:00] more protein. Okay. Like that. Cause I'm not, I'm you're not.
[00:42:04] Courtney: And here's the thing that does not get talked about a lot. And this is why I don't mess with the nutrition aspect of it other than just tell people to hydrate themselves and in some extra protein and a vegetable because a lot of women have An eating issue that there was an eating disorder before the alcohol came into place, and this is huge.
[00:42:28] Courtney: So that's why I never choose your heart if quitting drinking is your heart and then the sugar stuff will, fall out. it will simmer down in time.
[00:42:38] Sonia: That's so, it's so true. It's so interesting. I was talking to somebody who like, we were talking kind of about nutrition and body image And I, I was the same size I am now when I was drinking, which meant. Like 90 percent of my calories were coming from alcohol, right? And so I obviously wasn't eating enough tosustain myself like nutritionally.
[00:42:59] Sonia: I [00:43:00] wasn't eating healthy. And so there is, yeah. When you think about it, there's going to be a shift in how you're eating for sure.
[00:43:06] Courtney: Yeah, absolutely. And then too, when women beat themselves up about gaining weight, it's but maybe you needed to gain a couple extra pounds, you know, I mean, that's, that's not necessarily a bad thing, like, but it will level out. I will never forget. One of my good guy friends, he's no longer with us. He had passed away from cancer a couple years ago.
[00:43:27] Courtney: But he quit drinking and he reached out, I had already quit drinking at this point, and he reached out to me, he's like, can you tell me something? I was like, yeah. He goes, how bad did I look in my act of addiction? And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, and he was at like three, four months at the time.
[00:43:42] Courtney: He was like, because everybody keeps telling me how great I am. I don't know. I was like, yeah, Richie, we were bloated pigs. Like we look like a hot mess, right? and we joked about it, but it is true. Like you have to trust the process of what's going to happen to your body. When you quit drinking alcohol, whatever [00:44:00] happens with your weight, I will tell you this.
[00:44:02] Courtney: It is the process called the Benjamin Buttons effect, where you start aging backwards. You truly do. that's why I love always seeing people's before and afters, because everybody looks so much older
[00:44:14] Sonia: Yes.
[00:44:15] Courtney: what they do in their sobriety. So, yeah, I just, it is, you just, you've got to, you just got to be gentle on yourself, especially those first 90 days, that first year.
[00:44:25] Courtney: You've got to really just be, be nice to yourself.
[00:44:29] Sonia: So in the book right when we're going through these different stages, at what point Do you start to think about, long term sobriety, or, this is a forever thing? This isn't just, because I know your book's not set up where it's like a 90 day experiment. It's just the first 90 days of a longer period of sobriety.
[00:44:48] Sonia: And so, at, is it at the beginning you start thinking about?
[00:44:55] Courtney: I tell people don't future trip.
[00:44:56] Sonia: Oh, okay.
[00:44:57] Courtney: it a day. because when, once you start thinking about [00:45:00] that, it's very overwhelming. That's why a lot too, when I do one on one with people, I only when they're like, okay, like a year. And I was like, no, no, we're going to start at eight weeks.
[00:45:10] Courtney: We're gonna start at eight weeks because a year is a long time to think about, right? and you might have a couple slips, which is okay, but you just need to think about shorter time periods, and especially with this, of just, I'm just gonna take it a day at a time, instead of, like, these big long goals.
[00:45:27] Courtney: It doesn't work for this. It doesn't, you know, because it's, it's too much pressure on yourself. It's too much pressure because then too, a lot of people think that they have to be perfect. There's no such thing as perfection. And it's just, it's not the case for this. So it's just think of today.
[00:45:45] Courtney: Take, think of, think of today and stop future tripping and you will, you can think about that wedding that's in two years down the road when you get to that wedding two years down the road. But I guarantee of what you think on day one when [00:46:00] you're quitting drinking to compare to what you're thinking at year two, It's a different mindset.
[00:46:07] Courtney: You've already been living a sober life. So then when you enter in that wedding, it's going to be, you're gonna, you're going to be fine because you've just done it for two, two years. And that's, I'm a firm believer too. it's, I'm not knocking anything, but that's why I don't, after a couple of years, I stopped calling myself a recovering alcoholic because I'm like, I, I'm not.
[00:46:29] Courtney: I'm not an alcoholic anymore. I'm living in a sober state of mind. It had nothing to do with ego. And it was actually my therapist at the time was like, do you still identify as that? And when she asked me that, I was like, actually I don't. And I was like, I'm just, I'm now at a point, I'm just like, I'm a woman who doesn't drink alcohol.
[00:46:48] Courtney: I did have this story. I did live this life, but I'm not living that anymore. And that's where I want people to give themselves more credit when they're like, I'm only. 7 weeks sober. I'm only [00:47:00] 56 days. No, you're 56 days sober. We all start from that day one and you have been living that. You have been, you know, so it's just, it really is a lot more needs to go and be talked about on how you talk to yourself in this process.
[00:47:19] Courtney: Because when you keep referring to yourself as a recovering alcoholic or an alcoholic or whatnot, what does that tell you? That you're an alcoholic and then that there's really no way of moving past any of that shame and healing. It's keeping you in the state of mind.
[00:47:35] Sonia: That's so true. And also, if you think about it, like, those 56 days are harder than the next 156 days. so if you got through those 56, that is the huge accomplishment. when my brother was sober before I got sober, um, I remember we'd go on vacation and someone would offer him a drink and I'd be like, my brother's an alcoholic.
[00:47:54] Sonia: And he was like, stop calling me an alcoholic. And he's like, I haven't had a [00:48:00] drink in seven years. and I never understood it until. Until I got sober. Yeah, I never understood it. I'm super comfortable with the term sober, but I don't throw out the term alcoholic easily, like in social situations.
[00:48:16] Sonia: I mean, I, I'll identify, I can identify as a recovering alcoholic. That's no problem. But, but I really identify with being sober and like having a sober lifestyle. Like now that you say it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:48:29] Courtney: I'm not like the condition. That's where I go back to you need to condition and I will tell people I have consult with them of doing one on ones. I'm like, I'm about to condition you in the best possible way because it's the, this is and. I'm working on more certifications with, cognitive behavioral techniques.
[00:48:49] Courtney: and that's like, a lot of this is a lot of mindset shifts and of envisioning yourself living this life and then doing it. So, you know, [00:49:00] to each their own identify how you want to, but I'm just, it's a lot of mindset work and shifting. It's the same thing of okay, well, how am I going to have fun?
[00:49:08] Courtney: fun. It's like, well, what do you consider fun? Do you consider fun still living in this, the state of mind where you're like itching to get out, right? Like our hangovers fun. That's not fun. You know, what's fun for me is waking up on a Saturday and being able to stomach my coffee and being like, Oh, that's so good.
[00:49:24] Courtney: I get another day to go experience some life, right? and not be tied to my bed or tied to one specific bar that I'm going to because my world was so small in my act of a drink, active drinking days.
[00:49:38] Sonia: that's so true. Well, I loved having you, Courtney, and I hope people go and pick up the first 90 days. I hope there's going to be a, the next 90 days. Yeah,
[00:49:52] Courtney: have a thing for another book, so I, it would get more into like a year, but it's more to have The conditioning [00:50:00] of like more mindset stuff, but yeah, so I hope that comes to light, but thank you so much for having me and you know, people can find my book. It's on Amazon and, and my podcast sober vibes.
[00:50:11] Sonia: And we'll link to it in the show notes. Thank you so much.
[00:50:14] Courtney: Thank you.
[00:50:15]