Come Back To Earth | Music & Mental Health

Elle Indigo has been finding words for things most people leave unnamed. She started in poetry, the private kind, written for no one in particular. Then the words started needing music underneath them. And somewhere in that transition she discovered something about the difference between writing to process and writing to connect.

This conversation goes into that space. The vulnerability of making something personal and then handing it to a room full of strangers. The way metaphor can say the thing you couldn't say directly. What it costs to stand on a stage with a song that came from somewhere real and trust that the audience will meet you there. Elle doesn't have it all figured out. That's what makes this worth listening to.


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From the Studio
This episode is part of Come Back To Earth, produced by Story House. We believe story is a tool for meaning-making, not just performance.
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I read every letter. If something in this episode landed for you, or raised something you're still sitting with, I'd love to hear it.

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Presence over persuasion. Consistency over frequency. http://storyhousestudio.org

Creators and Guests

Host
J.D. Murgolo
Founder of Story House

What is Come Back To Earth | Music & Mental Health?

What does it cost to make music, and what does it give back? Come Back to Earth is a weekly music interview podcast where host J.D. Murgolo sits down with musicians and songwriters to explore mental health, creative survival, and the stories hidden behind the songs.

We go beyond the stage to uncover the wounds, turning points, and hard-won hopes that shape an artist's life. Through honest conversations about the creative process, music and mental health, and what it means to keep going, this is a show where the music is the doorway — and the soul is the destination.

Because the most important thing an artist makes isn't the record. It's the decision to come back to themselves.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (00:00)
You don't have to feel like you change anything at all. But if you don't have any questions, whenever you're ready, start with your introduction, and we'll go from there.

Ellie Indigo (00:00)
Alrighty. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (00:07)
Okay. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (00:13)
Hi everyone, I'm Elle Indigo. I'm a singer-songwriter and I write songs for people who feel too hard and fall too soon and are always overthinking. the short version of my long bio that I have to shorten for half the social media profiles. It's always too long. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (00:29)
I mean, that's frustrating, right? It's like they want, it's like, here, can you tell us about you? But no, not that much. And I get it. You don't want to get like too much. You don't need to, but it's like, sometimes you don't even get out what you actually wanted people to hear. That's a very specific way still to kind of share how you write songs. was talking to someone like last week at just about like genres and it just, not that I even love that word either, but.

Ellie Indigo (00:35)
It's a little short, yeah.

Ellie Indigo (00:44)
Really wanting, yeah. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (00:59)
Just trying to, like, you know, even just in a general sense, like trying to search for something that was familiar to you, like boggles you, but then you, the people like you come along with this, this is my description for it. It's like, hey.

Ellie Indigo (01:05)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (01:10)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (01:12)
It might come out sounding something like you've heard before, but this is the way to describe it. And I think that's just a beautiful way to speak to music. So maybe begin there. Where does a description come like that? And how do you find it when it comes to releasing your sound? How does that resonate with people and go?

Ellie Indigo (01:21)
Thank you, yeah.

Ellie Indigo (01:31)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (01:34)
So I was really a poet first and I'm somewhat

Ellie Indigo (01:41)
a little bit tangentially involved in the speculative poetry community, which is like sci-fi fantasy poetry. But I I kinda got roped in and I was like, I don't write this as much, so it's kinda funny, but I love everybody I've met in the community. So I'm actually trying to write a little bit more because it's it's fun and different. but my poetry has always been a little bit more, you know, part journal. So I'm kind of taking that journaling into into my lyrics and my songs. and

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (01:57)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (02:10)
There's this

Ellie Indigo (02:14)
intellectual knowledge that you're not the only one going through something or who's ever gone through something in the world. But it's really hard to connect with that if you're not talking or hearing from other people who've had similar experiences. and, you know, I'm at some point, unfortunately, all of us will have experienced loss and grief. hopefully not too early on.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (02:20)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (02:29)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (02:37)
Yes.

Ellie Indigo (02:40)
And so like that form of loss or grief might be different for everybody, but it's a very universal feeling. So, you know, sometimes I might be talking in a story, in a song

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (02:44)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (02:50)
about something somewhat specific, but I think a lot of the emotions and the feelings, you know, I'm hoping that they can resonate with somebody else. And not to be like, you know, it's not like I'm like, okay, I want somebody to feel this, but it's more like, you know, you're you're seen and heard and I know like I know this feeling, this pain and I you know, I just think it helps us feel more connected and not alone. So, yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (03:10)
When you write that way, and I absolutely understand what you're saying, and especially when it comes to music, because that's some of the fascinating like lyrics, you know, that I go back to is.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (03:20)
you know, every pass, you kind of hear it a little bit different and you may or may not know exactly why that artist wrote it that way. They may not know it. It could have just been something that fell out and sounded, you know, kind of clever to piece together. But I always wonder if like how intentional that that is, though, is, you know, is are you trying to be mysterious? And it's like, what did you what?

Ellie Indigo (03:24)
Mm-mm.

Ellie Indigo (03:34)
Right.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (03:44)
You and you lay out the, if you look at the lyrics on the notes, you're like, that doesn't even make sense. you know, as it, so are they, are you doing that on purpose? You know, to make people go, what? You know, or does it kind of fall out that way? And you're like, you know, leave it that, I don't want to say mystery, because that sounds terrible, but you know, that kind of, like you said, like you can plug and play with however you're feeling, whatever experience it works for you, right?

Ellie Indigo (03:55)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (04:00)
I kinda Right. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (04:09)
And I kind of feel like right now I'm going a little less mysterious, which I'm trying to plug a little bit more of I you know I use a lot of metaphor in poetry. and everyone has different poetic styles too. Some people, you know, don't use that as much. So but I tend to use a little bit more metaphor in poetry. I still want people to come away with a sense of what

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (04:22)
Sure, sure.

Ellie Indigo (04:33)
it was about regardless of how, you know, convoluted we're going. Same thing with a song. So like I don't want it so mysterious that you're sitting at the end going, What the heck was this about? I like puzzling out some things myself, so if I'm listening to something

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (04:35)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (04:47)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (04:52)
If I was to write something slightly more complicated in that vein, because I do want to bring some more metaphors into my songs and so I'm kind of trying to work on that more intentionally now. That's when I'm journaling it is more just, you know, like here are my feelings and thoughts and it yeah. Right. So it doesn't always make for the most interesting lyrics. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing either, because it's really just about touching the person you know, reading, listening, whatever.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (04:58)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (05:05)
Right, that's how they tell you to start, it's just whatever comes out, right? But now...

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (05:12)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (05:14)
No.

Ellie Indigo (05:22)
getting them to feel something and get get connected. But but yeah, they do want to bring some more of that metaphor in and make it work. I'm I'm still working on rhyming structures. I don't rhyme in my poetry, so this is that's different doing it meter with song.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (05:36)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (05:38)
So does it kind of force you to have to, I don't want to say be somebody you're not, almost like write in a way that you're not comfortable with because it's like, well, so I'll give you an example. The way I speak, know.

Ellie Indigo (05:43)
Hmm.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (05:52)
can vary depending on the person, I understand what you're probably going to understand. And that's not saying that you're smarter or lesser or whatever. It's just I want to make sure that whatever I said makes sense to how you process it. And I find myself doing it a lot whenever I write an article or record a voice note or even just in the smallest sense, a social media post. I'll be like, that made sense to me. That might be way too deep. And I get frustrated at something like that, because I'm like, well, you've

Ellie Indigo (05:53)
Mm-hmm. Of course. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (05:58)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (06:02)
That's yeah. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (06:11)
Mm-hmm.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (06:20)
this wasn't like highly intellectual. want you to, that's the goal is to have a conversation and be able to think like that. And so it's like, I wrestle with the fact that that's annoying me that I have to change that, you know, when somebody should, but here we are talking about something like musical far more reaching than my simple post, you know, would be. But is that, is that something strange to wrestle with? That it's like, okay, want.

Ellie Indigo (06:32)
Right, right. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (06:45)
Yes, sometimes it's right.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (06:46)
Of course you want to be successful, you know what mean? Like it's like, you want people to hear this, but I also want to keep me. Is that a weird like struggle?

Ellie Indigo (06:52)
Yeah. Yeah,

Ellie Indigo (06:57)
It's something that I've struggled with in poetry is that there's some poets that I highly admire, and I don't write like them at all. And I think there's something to be said for playing around with words and trying things out, and then you know, the writing evolves, so like I'm not going to sound like Margaret Atwood.

Ellie Indigo (07:19)
But I can take some elements of her writing and her poetry is very complex and it doesn't help that it's about or that some of it is about Canadian politics. So of course I'm like, well, I just don't even know what's going on. And I was reading this in high school, I'm like, I really don't know what's going on. not not all of it. She has some really great stuff about grief and loss too. but she writes some pretty deep metaphors that you really have to sit with it and

Ellie Indigo (07:48)
sometimes I'm in the mood for that and sometimes I'm just not and I think it's kind of the same with music. So with writing sometimes I haven't done this in a while. I like doing like random word prompts and so doing that with lyrics can be kinda fun 'cause it forces you to try new formats and and then that might get incorporated into like whatever else I'm actually writing to put to music, you know, 'cause

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (08:03)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (08:15)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (08:16)
probably not gonna end up putting a lot of those random word lyrics to a song. Maybe one day, but it's unlikely. So, yeah, I'm I mean right now, like I am trying to consciously I do kind of enjoy just, you know, writing as it comes to me.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (08:32)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (08:35)
But there's something to be said about that intentionality of writing or going back into it and being like, you know what, what can we tweak here? Add a little bit more of that metaphor in, you know, kind of change up some things. but yeah, right now I'm just kinda working on the a little bit of the rhyme structure without it being feeling too forced, because that's a very different experience. So that's my first thing. Yeah. mm-hmm. Sure. Uh-huh.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (08:53)
Yeah. I want to like walk back because I realized that we kind of like glanced over the fact that you said like, you know, like you write poetry and we are talking about like songwriting and there is a difference there. And I mean, that's what you're highlighting here. But I'm not sure. I'm not sure many people realize that, that like to me, I feel like most people listening would just go, well.

Ellie Indigo (09:04)
Right.

Ellie Indigo (09:07)
Yes, there is. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (09:15)
Duh, like, you know, that's kind of what songwriting is, but it's not. I mean, just you talking about like, just playing with like the words I've seen and read, like, you know, artists doing that, that they just kind of like, will gather the words and it has no meaning like whatsoever, but it sounded like a fun phrase or like a word they want to incorporate and goes from there. But that's songwriting and that share the similarities, but don't. like.

Ellie Indigo (09:30)
Right, right. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (09:40)
Not to walk back the story, but before we like dive deeper into like, you know, the songs themselves and how this comes out for you, can you just, and I'm putting you on the pedestal for explaining that for everybody that does this. So I apologize, but where's the difference in the two of them? Because we've talked about kind of where it meshes, but where's the difference between being, I want to say a poet necessarily, just, I mean, just the writing part of it compared to songwriting and where do they mesh?

Ellie Indigo (09:41)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (09:53)
Okay, okay.

Ellie Indigo (09:58)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (10:07)
Yeah, so I mean with my lyrics, I've been primarily starting out word-based, not music based. But sometimes something will come to me. and it's still just very new for me, so I think that's part of it. But you do have to keep in I mean, you don't have to rhyme in song, don't get me wrong. that rhymed accidentally. so

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (10:24)
No, no.

Ellie Indigo (10:29)
Yeah, you don't have to rhyme. It can help with some structure. you know, similarly, there are poets who rhyme a lot. I'm I usually don't do that. so you know, some stylistic choices. But yeah, I mean, rhyming does help us with memorization, with remembering things. It it sticks in the head a little bit more, so it's, you know, I think why a lot of pop songs do have more rhyming meter.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (10:31)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (10:43)
Sure, yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (10:46)
I was gonna say that's your brain automatically wants to do that, yeah.

Ellie Indigo (10:56)
you know, they're meant to create that earwor earworm and yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (10:58)
catch. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (11:03)
And so that I mean, that can be a choice. obviously if you're writing for pr s for a I was trying to mess up specific and particular at the same time there. If you're trying to write for a particular genre, especially if you're working with

Ellie Indigo (11:19)
at least I imagine if you're working with like a recording company or something like that, they are probably gonna have a little bit more rules for you that you kinda have to follow. right now I don't have to go with rules other than, you know, it puts my song in a little bit of a middle place, yeah. so but you have to keep the timing in mind somewhat and

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (11:27)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (11:33)
That's beautiful to me. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (11:41)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (11:43)
There can be some finessing in the so like, if I'm finding a l a line is too long or too short, there can be some finessing when we when you start adding the music to make it kinda work. You know, I can cut the words at that point or I can add some repetition or whatever.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (11:56)
Sure, yeah, yeah, I can see that.

Ellie Indigo (12:02)
But I do try to keep it in mind a little bit because otherwise it gets a little more difficult when I'm getting to the musical composition part, which right now I'm working with my partner because I have not done a lot of musical composition myself. So he's helping me through that part. So we're co-composing. and poetry, I mean, you you can work with form. You can not work with form. I think that all good poetry has a goal. So I write a lot of free verse, but

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (12:07)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (12:24)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (12:33)
I do utilize poetic methods is not the word I'm looking for, but you know, I I'll use repetition, I'll use metaphor, I'll use these different tools, tools thing is the word, to kind of move things along and make it feel like a poem and not just and I don't say just prose because I love prose too, but yeah. I want it to feel like a poem, not prose. So there's a little bit of differentiation.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (12:43)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (12:52)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (12:59)
Yeah, is that a welcome challenge as you move through exploring your career as a musician that at some point somebody's gonna be like, well, this sounded cool on paper and we're glad you're here. We'd like to make a few suggestions. Is that challenging in a good way or is it challenging like, I'm about to have my entire identity ripped away from me?

Ellie Indigo (13:03)
Mm.

Ellie Indigo (13:07)
Sometimes.

Ellie Indigo (13:13)
Right.

Ellie Indigo (13:26)
Well, I've worked with editors in poetry. I haven't worked with in that in music yet, so I haven't run into that. I'm sure it's gonna not feel great the first time. Yeah. and you know, with any editor, sometimes that first you get it back and Well, sometimes if they're too nice, you're like, Did you edit this? But Ugh Ugh only

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (13:29)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (13:35)
It's not going be wonderful, yeah, I can imagine.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (13:48)
I knew there was something wrong here. Are you sure you didn't find anything? Because I was hoping you would.

Ellie Indigo (13:55)
I'm glad you didn't find anything, but are we sure? Yeah. I thought you know, I don't want anything wrong to be found. I just figure there probably is something to be found.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (13:57)
Yeah, I'm not great.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (14:06)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (14:07)
but yeah, I mean it c it can be hard to sit with that and then you you gotta get out of that place of feeling like no nothing needs to be changed and then move into, okay, what you know, and and with my poetry book I pushed back on some things, but not everything, 'cause you know, there were some things that was like, No, no, no, this is very specific. I have this this way for a reason and then we kinda go from there. so I imagine maybe it's similar. Don't know yet.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (14:21)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (14:34)
Yeah, I mean, just, mean, it's I mean, it's...

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (14:38)
for whatever reason, I there's the same process in a way, right? I mean, you're not necessarily like writing a book that's extremely personal, but there is that option to do that. And you're putting that work out there for somebody else to look over and kind of give a critique to it and then put it out in the world. Same thing with music, but I feel like for whatever reason, like there's a whole different feeling that you kind of want somebody to, like you said, like look at your book and go, yeah, you're gonna need to fix this. there's, whatever it is, like the tone.

Ellie Indigo (14:41)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (15:06)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (15:08)
the comma, you know, the this wasn't a good choice of, you know, chapters, whatever the case may be. And it's like you may not like it, but you kind of like you said you were hoping that was going to happen where it's like for music. I've spoken to many artists that said something similar that it's like it's almost like it changes, you know, the level of personal that's on the paper because now it's being sung to and.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (15:33)
I can read a book at my own time and you're not reading it to me every time I pick up the book. But the song, think that maybe that didn't correct me if I'm wrong. Like that's what I guess changes it because now you have to say it and sing it and play it or whatever, whenever you want, whenever you're choosing and we hear it, you know, yes, we're plugging in to our headphones, but it's almost more repeated than a book. So that edit is like feels more personal, I guess.

Ellie Indigo (15:37)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (16:05)
Yeah, I c I mean, like I said, I haven't been in that position, so I can kind of imagine that it might feel that way. I think for me, maybe I'm more used to the words being critiqued. I would probably be like right now in this moment more sensitive to vocal critique. And not because I'm like, okay, no, you're probably right, we do need to do something, but it it depends. It depends on what the critique is, of course.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (16:08)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (16:18)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (16:29)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (16:33)
But that to me is still very personal. And so yeah, I think that's probably something I'm not as used to and we'll just get more used to over time. and mm? Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (16:36)
Sure.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (16:41)
Yeah. So let's dive into it specifically then with a song that you have out there.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (16:48)
song that you came to speak about and certainly share what other songs go along with this. and because it seems like it fits this example perfectly, won't you hear me that you are talking about missing parts of yourself and things that you hid and here's somebody going to critique something that you're trying to you're trying to speak out loud and finally, you know, come out of the shadows with and potentially their critique is like, well, that was can you walk back into the shadows just a tiny bit? That was way too, you know. So can you talk about

Ellie Indigo (16:56)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (17:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (17:13)
Meh or whatever, yeah. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (17:18)
Just kind of you know, using that as an example, I guess, but like at the same time dive into just the meaning and the purpose for a song like that for you and for anybody who hears it.

Ellie Indigo (17:31)
Yeah. so part of my journey musically has been getting out and, you know, kind of showing myself more. prior to that, like I have done some poet poetry open mics, which is still sometimes nerve-wracking as well.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (17:45)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (17:50)
So, I mean, all of us have so many facets and different parts of ourselves and it's not necessarily about showing all of those to the world. I think everybody has different, you know, what they want to do with that and what they want to show, but it's more about not hiding those parts. Cause I think if, you know, w I mean, I could go on for hours with like all the things I'm interested in, but there's not a point in me really like going into all of that with everyone I meet.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (18:03)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (18:20)
Right.

Ellie Indigo (18:20)
it also wouldn't be very sustainable. but what I wanted to move on from was the feeling of needing to hide parts of myself and needing to not like fully be myself.

Ellie Indigo (18:33)
And it it's still a work in progress. Like, I really love jokes and puns and like I'm not always comfortable set. Like, there's certain people who I'm super comfortable because I'm like, you're not gonna make fun of me. Like, you're you're safe. I can and honestly that experience of being around those people kinda helps me do that more around other people that I'm not as sure about and just

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (18:42)
you

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (18:51)
sure.

Ellie Indigo (18:54)
Trying to take the like, you know what, if they don't like it, that's okay. That's totally fine. It doesn't I don't have to change me just because it's not their jam, you know? Yeah, so this song just kind of really spoke to that 'cause I kinda always felt like I was trying to force myself to fit in or fit into the wrong groups. force myself to be accepted in places that just weren't accepting and then kinda over the years

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (18:58)
Okay.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (19:03)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (19:22)
when you're you know, when that's putting yourself in those situations rather than trying to find the people who are gonna be your tribe, it reinforces this feeling of like wanting to hide and just not be as much of yourself and kinda going into a little shell and turtles are cute but we don't want a shell. so

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (19:32)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (19:46)
Yeah. And I mean...

Ellie Indigo (19:46)
Yeah, so over the years that kinda happened and then I'm really trying to get out more. I I've always had stage fright, so this is a big process in getting over that. Yeah. Everything but stand up comedy. We're we're good. We don't need to do that.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (19:55)
There you go. It's like, welcome to the Three Mountain Wolves. But there's something therapeutic about that too, right?

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (20:07)
How do you go from that? That's always fascinating. Maybe it comes because I feel like if you ask an artist, the majority of them will tell you that they don't like being in front of people, like on stage, no matter what the size, 10 or 10 million. They all said, and then when they do say like, no, I love being on stage, was true. That's true now. That may not have true, but then you also look at it and like, no, there's no way. There's something wrong with you.

Ellie Indigo (20:19)
Mm. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (20:34)
We all have that, but you signed up for like, not even just Public Speaking 101. You're like, I'm gonna teach public speaking, watch me sing this live. that's always been just truly fascinating to me that people, musicians just go, yep.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (20:51)
I'm gonna make this song and I know that I'm gonna have to perform this too. how does that, how do you, I don't wanna say make that leap, because it's definitely not a leap. It's certainly, you know, a step by step, but you've got a song that's talking about that and you're doing it. How do they, how do you get to that point? And how do they like coincide on the same stage? Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (20:54)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (21:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (21:12)
I'm still getting to that point. yeah, so one thing that I started doing was just going to karaoke like once or twice a week. which is not the same. Especially because like I found that I got really comfortable at location. So I was like, I'm good here, but then I go to a new location. I was like, crap. yeah, I don't know, interview, like where are we? Yeah, you know, they right?

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (21:20)
Yeah, here we go.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (21:33)
I don't know any of you. You're not drinking as much as the last crowd. What's going on here? Yeah, it's like a whole new world of anxiety kicks in every time,

Ellie Indigo (21:41)
The KJ knows me, gets me songs at one place, so I'm like, like, we're good here, you know? But yeah, I mean the exposure does help. Just getting out and doing it helps. it doesn't completely calm everything. And like right now I'm really working on

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (21:50)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (22:03)
the the bridge between the intellectual knowledge and the emotional feeling of like you look out and if you see somebody making a face like it might be at you it's probably not it's probably not and just like sometimes the crowd energy isn't always there depict especially depending on where you are.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (22:08)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (22:15)
It's probably not, yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (22:20)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (22:25)
You know, if it's a sl slow, small room, you're not getting that energy to feed off of. So you kinda gotta like create your own and just

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (22:31)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (22:38)
Be the vibe you want to be. I guess that sounds really pithy.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (22:40)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (22:45)
People are like, wait a minute, she said she was a poet? And she came up, I could get this praise. No, I mean, that just speaks to just like, I mean, I'm sure you just put yourself in a moment just there. That's the only words we could find, because the anxiety came in. mean, to me, like that's what makes it just a whole new world, you know, being a musician and a whole new brain to me, you know, and it's not that.

Ellie Indigo (22:56)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (23:10)
It's not that you can't learn that. It's not that you can't train that. there is, I feel like, you know, some point like you hear musicians like, I never, I never took guitar lessons. You're like, wait a minute. Like you're you're amazing. How did this work? And I think it's that's why what you're talking about is that you just.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (23:26)
You're not going because this is like a class. I like, need to learn how to be in front of people. It's just your brain said, OK, well, I'm creative and this is just part of it. How do I make this work? It's not going to go away, right? The energy changes each time. You're not going to be able to pick your crowd, but it's being able to... I'll use this. I'll use a pithy statement there, too. Just being able to read the room, right? And I think, you know, if I put it in my world, yeah.

Ellie Indigo (23:52)
Yeah, yeah. But not let that like

Ellie Indigo (23:58)
'Cause maybe the room doesn't feel as great as you want it to be, but you still gotta go on and and yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (24:01)
Right.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (24:03)
Yeah, not change who you are in the process. I mean, you know, that's a terrible example, but like I imagine this is a DJ is supposed to do, right? It's like, well, that is my, like, good, like, that's my favorite song to play. Why is not everybody moving? What am I supposed to do here? And I think those kind of, those are the pieces of being any creative, but.

Ellie Indigo (24:13)
Mm mm. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (24:25)
to me, music especially, that like as a listener, and that's what I hope like this show like ultimately pulls out our pieces like this, that we just like take for granted, I guess, you know, and don't realize that.

Ellie Indigo (24:36)
Mm, mm.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (24:38)
like they're in their head too, as they're singing. They're not just up there and like mindlessly playing and just memorize that they're probably nervous that they forgot the next line or they have to play in this instrument and they haven't picked it up in a week and not, you know, like all those things are still racing through their heads too as musicians. And it's just being able to see that, okay, well, I still need to play this and I still love to play this.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (25:04)
even though you're not clapping, right? mean, it's kind of being able to do that if I'm right.

Ellie Indigo (25:05)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (25:09)
Yeah, and it's you know, sometimes you get some immediate feedback, but I feel like a lot of times the feedback doesn't come till later, or you don't get the feedback at all. Or I'll hear from somebody later that they really loved something and I'm like, That would have been nice to know earlier But you know, I mean, for whatever reason maybe we couldn't hear it or, you know, people were just in their own moment and

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (25:14)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (25:23)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (25:37)
So one of the things I'm kind of trying to work on is remembering like who is on my team and who supports me and like all their kind words because that reminds me that like I'm like, okay, somebody here is probably really loving this and I just don't know it. And so I'm like, okay, we're do we're just gonna sing for them and then maybe some more people will love it, I don't know, but it's the goal.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (25:45)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (25:53)
Yeah, right.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (26:01)
Right. And then to me, mean, that's like the gift and the curse of putting anything out there. But again, I mean, I feel like, you know, there's another moment where music is on a different level than other creatives. Yeah. And even just, mean...

Ellie Indigo (26:07)
Yes, yeah.

Ellie Indigo (26:12)
It's so immediate when you're performing, yeah. Yeah. Or I mean the feeling like at least on stage is immediate. The feedback's not always immediate, but I'm feeling it. I'm there right then in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (26:23)
Yeah, some version of the feedback, maybe like not verbally, but like there is some like immediate like, you know, I understand what's going on here and.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (26:34)
I mean, you have like two choices, I guess, right? You either keep going or you make it worse and like stop mid song and walk out, right? And that just ruined it even more so, and cause you don't know, right? That, I mean, I've talked to artists that it's like not until the last, you know, like few chords or few, know, know, strums of a, you know, a guitar or the sound of their voice or whatever it is, but where the true meaning of that song came out. And if you gave up, that person may not ever get to that point.

Ellie Indigo (26:40)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (26:58)
Hmm, mm-hmm. Get there, yeah. Yeah. And we're doing a lot of, you know, like restaurants, breweries, stuff like that. So not everybody's there for the music. So it's a very interesting experience because, you know, you might get one or two people clapping. And it doesn't even mean that the rest of them aren't enjoying it. It's just like they're not necessarily there for that. Yeah. So it's a it's a different vibe to get used to. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (27:12)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (27:19)
That's not why they came there. It was that guy like, we put the game on this TV? What's going on here? Grumbling as the person like walks in with their equipment like, I didn't sign up for, yeah. To me, those are the challenges that like, you know, we make it sound so easy and like I'm somewhat in that world too. And that's what's always bothered me. It's like, you can pick up a headset and a microphone and make sure you've got a camera if you're gonna do an interview and you're good.

Ellie Indigo (27:30)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (27:46)
And you might be to a degree, but you're not because there's these other parts that we're either not discussing or we're just kind of glancing over and like, well, they'll figure it out. But you're you you don't, you know, it's because you're human and you have to you're going to have to wake up to someone, you know, heckling you all of a sudden for every, you know, 100 people that love the song and resonated with it, and especially a song like this, where everybody goes, like you said, through some version of it.

Ellie Indigo (28:07)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (28:16)
There's even one person that's going to make you feel like you made a mistake with your own choice of putting something out there for you, right?

Ellie Indigo (28:30)
Yeah. sorry I was trying to jump off that. I'm trying to figure out where the jump off part part is.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (28:33)
Hehehehehe

Ellie Indigo (28:39)
I know it's coming, I guess I you know, the the the benefit of like still being really small is that I'm not getting those comments yet. But I'm like, I know it's coming one day. One of these days. So, you know.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (28:46)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (28:53)
And for a song like that, mean, it's yeah, for a song like that too, it's like, I mean, that's exactly what you're talking about. It's just gonna, that's the kind of thing that forces somebody to hide, know, whether they did it for themselves, if they, you know, already, this is what puts people like in a box, you know, is that one, two persons that, which is like, no, this song is terrible. And you're like, well, hold on, like.

Ellie Indigo (28:53)
Trying to do some mental preparation, you know.

Ellie Indigo (29:16)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (29:17)
this was about my life, you know, and I just, that's to me is, know, we forget, you know, yes, can, it can not be your favorite sound. didn't frequency wise, didn't hit your ears the right way. And you can definitely, but we just forget that like not every song, but majority, would say there's some personal touch, you know, it might be just the one word that you were playing with or the, you know, the one line, but it also could be the whole song that somebody put out there.

Ellie Indigo (29:38)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (29:47)
And so I commend people like you that...

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (29:49)
overtly put the emotion in there, versus when the album comes out and they have an interview with you you're like, that whole album is about grief and this person lost and whatever, it's not a guessing game. And I think that's what it should be for music. So I appreciate that. So not to put you on the spot and make it more anxious. Do you feel comfortable sharing even just the spoken lines of the song or playing some parts of the song?

Ellie Indigo (30:04)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (30:10)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (30:19)
yeah, I'm very not warmed up right now because it's my morning. So let me

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (30:19)
here.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (30:24)
That's alright.

Ellie Indigo (30:30)
So I still cheat a little bit with a tablet. I have never been a good memorizer, which I should like I have historically not been a good memorizer. yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (30:33)
That's okay.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (30:40)
don't know if I, you know, it's just, I don't either. And I, to me, I just kind of look at it. I'll cut all this like jibber-jabber out here so it don't feel like bad. You know, to me, it's being able to like comfortably say it, you know? I mean, sure, I want people to feel natural and I'm gonna like pause and have a silence and I love the silences, but I'd rather like not have to think about it be able to say what I need to say clearly rather than like, oh, what's the next?

Ellie Indigo (30:52)
Mm mm.

Ellie Indigo (31:08)
What's the next thing? Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (31:08)
I'm not an actor, so I don't need to do that. can just say it. There's no problems or issues there.

Ellie Indigo (31:16)
I'll say definitely I know a lot of people don't like you know, I mean, I think it's great to have things memorized and a lot of people kinda poo poo the tablet use, but knowing that I could use one really helped at least alleviate one thing because I'm like, you what, this is a an eventual goal that will get past that. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (31:28)
Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (31:33)
Yeah, well as you do it more, as you become more confident, that's how it gets. It's not something like, know, okay, I need to memorize this before I go. That's just one of those things that just, it becomes more natural as you do it, you know, and we can't force people to do things like that immediately. You have to let them be human, right?

Ellie Indigo (31:41)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (31:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Well and it gives me the opportunity to get used to being on stage and get over that hurdle before trying a new one. Yeah. So yeah, so this opens up with I'm waiting in the wing, shadow you can't see, waiting for my cue. And

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (31:54)
Yeah, right.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (31:58)
Yeah, we'll walk back to the memorization. Right, absolutely. Absolutely.

Ellie Indigo (32:12)
For me it just really speaks to this kinda like feeling like a background character a little bit. Like and waiting for this permission. But like really I'm the one who like needs to give me permission, which maybe that's like a follow up song 'cause I don't you know.

Ellie Indigo (32:28)
And then I'll just skip to the chorus, which is, won't you hear me? I'm knocking so loud. Won't you hear me? Please let me out. And it's really actually just me talking to myself. Like this internal part of me that's been hiding is like, hello, hello, you know, I'm here and

Ellie Indigo (32:50)
That was definitely well, all word all words are manufactured, but that wasn't necessarily like a conscious thought I had to myself where I was you know, but it was more of a feeling, so that was kind of the feeling translated into this image that I think gives a really good image of what's going on inside.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (33:07)
Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (33:15)
'Cause we can only say the word sad so many times, which I say a lot in my other song, but it's in the title, so it's fine. Yeah. Yeah.

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (33:18)
sure right

j d 1 01 14 2026 123614 (33:22)
So it's fine, it works. I love it, I love it. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. More importantly though, thank you for gifting your music to the world. Yeah.

Ellie Indigo (33:28)
Sure.

Ellie Indigo (33:30)
Thank you. And thanks for having me on. Yeah.