Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Want deeper support? Join Circle at holplus.co/circle and use code PODCAST for a one-month trial.
Optimism is often misunderstood. It gets reduced to positive thinking, good vibes, or pretending everything is fine. But real optimism is not about denying pain. It is about learning how to stay grounded in reality while still believing that healing, change, and resilience are possible.
Optimism is often misunderstood. It gets reduced to positive thinking, good vibes, or pretending everything is fine. But real optimism is not about denying pain. It is about learning how to stay grounded in reality while still believing that healing, change, and resilience are possible.
In this episode of hol+, Dr. Taz sits down with Dr. Deepika Chopra, known as The Optimism Doctor, to explore what optimism actually means and why it matters for both mental and physical health. Together, they unpack the difference between optimism and toxic positivity, why our brains are wired to expect worst-case scenarios, and how that pattern may no longer serve us in modern life.
They also explore the science behind sensory-based visual imagery and how the brain responds to what we vividly imagine, often in ways that influence expectation, motivation, and even the body’s stress response. Dr. Deepika shares how these tools were used in psych-oncology settings, where patients practiced visualizing treatments working with the body rather than against it, and how similar techniques can support people navigating anxiety, illness, self-doubt, and major life transitions.
The conversation expands into practical tools for everyday life, including the 12-second rule, the role of awe in calming anxious or depressive states, and the importance of collecting believable evidence rather than relying on empty affirmations. They also discuss why naming emotions honestly is more healing than suppressing them, how to shift deeply rooted self-beliefs in realistic ways, and why purpose plays such an important role in long-term well-being.
Rather than asking listeners to force positivity, this episode offers a more compassionate and evidence-based framework. It is about building optimism as a skill, strengthening resilience over time, and learning to meet hard seasons with honesty, curiosity, and hope. This conversation is for anyone feeling stuck in negative thought loops, overwhelmed by stress, or ready to approach healing with more realism and self-trust.
About Dr. Deepika Chopra
Dr. Deepika Chopra is a licensed clinical health psychologist, speaker, and author known as the Optimism Doctor. With a background in cognitive behavioral therapy, psych-oncology, and integrative mental health, her work focuses on helping people build resilience through practical, science-based tools.
About Dr. Deepika Chopra
Dr. Deepika Chopra is a licensed clinical health psychologist, speaker, and author known as the Optimism Doctor. With a background in cognitive behavioral therapy, psych-oncology, and integrative mental health, her work focuses on helping people build resilience through practical, science-based tools.
She is the author of The Power of Real Optimism, a book that explores how optimism can be strengthened through everyday practices rooted in psychology, neuroscience, and emotional honesty. Her approach bridges research with real life, offering accessible strategies for navigating stress, uncertainty, and personal growth.
Connect further to Hol+ at https://holplus.co/- Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on future episodes of hol+.
Follow Dr. Deepika Chopra
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdeepikachopra/
Website: https://www.drdeepikachopra.com/
Follow Dr. Taz on Instagram:
Subscribe to the audio podcast: https://holplus.transistor.fm/subscribe
Subscribe to the video podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@DrTazMD/podcasts
Get your copy of The Hormone Shift: Balance Your Body and Thrive Through Midlife and Menopause
Host & Production Team
Host & Production Team
Host: Dr. Taz; Produced by ClipGrowth.com (Producer: Pat Gostek)
Creators and Guests
Host
What is hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic?
hol+ with Dr. Taz MD is redefining modern medicine through a comprehensive, evidence-based holistic approach; integrating functional medicine, integrative medicine, and time-tested healing systems to treat the whole human, not just symptoms.
Hosted by Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz), triple board-certified physician in integrative, functional, and holistic medicine, bestselling Penguin Random House author, and founder of hol+; a comprehensive evidence-based holistic medicine platform with clinics in Atlanta, New York City, and Los Angeles, and virtual care available nationwide.
At the heart of hol+ is a revolutionary framework: the Five Body Map- physical, mental, emotional, energetic, and social/community bodies that create whole health. This whole-human approach connects hormone imbalances, gut dysfunction, microinflammation, cortisol dysregulation, metabolic disease, autoimmune conditions, perimenopause, and stress-driven illness to the full spectrum of who we are; body, mind, and spirit.
Each episode explores Dr. Taz’s original clinical frameworks ;The Cortisol Loop, Microinflammation, and The Invisible Load alongside conversations with leading experts, celebrities, and thought leaders including Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, Katherine Schwarzenegger, Cameron Mathison, Carol Alt, Jane Seymour, Tamsen Fadal, and Kris Carr.
Topics include hormone health, gut health, GLP-1 and metabolic therapy, thyroid dysfunction, weight loss, inflammation, autoimmune disease, mental and emotional wellness, energetic health, and the future of holistic medicine.
This is the show where science and spirit converge- driving health, happiness, relationships, and family ecosystems.
Want to go deeper? Join Dr. Taz’s private community, the hol+ Circle ; medicine beyond the exam room. (holplus.co/circle)
A 2025 Webby Award honoree, recognized alongside the Mel Robbins Podcast in the 29th Annual Webby Awards, hol+ is built on the foundation of Super Woman Wellness, which surpassed 1 million downloads over 8 years.
This is medicine beyond the exam room. Welcome to hol+
[00:00:00] Dr. Deepika Chopra: The brain actually doesn't know the difference or can't tell the difference between what you're [00:00:05] imagining and what you're actually doing. I would sit with patients while they were getting chemo treatments and [00:00:10] infusions, and I would take them through a visual imagery of actually imagining the treatment killing in [00:00:15] an aggressive way, the cancer cells.
[00:00:16] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:00:17] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And there's a lot of research behind that. Being able [00:00:20] to visualize your body working with whatever the treatment is, [00:00:25] or sort of imagining it, do what you want it to do. Is [00:00:30] not only powerful for the brain and helps you get through something that is really tough and there's [00:00:35] a lot of significance in that, but also it physically can change the [00:00:40] way your cells will see the chemistry.
[00:00:41] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah, the chemistry.
[00:00:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Most of us were taught that optimism [00:00:45] means staying upbeat, thinking good thoughts, and pushing away anything painful or [00:00:50] uncomfortable. But that version of optimism is unrealistic, emotionally draining, [00:00:55] and often leaves us feeling like we are failing at life.
[00:00:58] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Our modern [00:01:00] society and modern world constantly and chronically imagining worst case scenario and [00:01:05] ruminating about that is not helpful to our survival anymore.
[00:01:08] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so actually the [00:01:10] opposite is necessary for thriving. And there's been a ton of research done on people [00:01:15] that, uh, score higher on optimism levels. They. Get [00:01:20] sick less often. They bounce back from common respiratory viruses very quickly. [00:01:25] Optimistic people are more productive, they're more desirable and [00:01:30] likable.
[00:01:30] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So across the board there is just a so many [00:01:35] reasons, and it's not just like. Happiness is very particular to optimism. [00:01:40]
[00:01:40] Dr. Taz: My guest today, Dr. Dipika Chopra, known as The Optimism Doctor, has spent more than a [00:01:45] decade studying what optimism really is her new book. The Power of Real [00:01:50] Optimism Breaks Down the Science Behind Resilience.
[00:01:53] Dr. Taz: Joy, emotional [00:01:55] strength and the habits that help us stay grounded when life feels anything but easy.
[00:01:59] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:02:00] People can want something 10 outta 10 they can want, but their [00:02:05] expectation do you expect this is actually gonna happen is like a four. Hmm. And unless we [00:02:10] do the work to close that gap of the 10 and the four, your brain is probably not working for you to get [00:02:15] there.
[00:02:15] Dr. Deepika Chopra: With the solutions. You don't always get what you want, but you most likely always get what you [00:02:20] expect.
[00:02:20] Dr. Taz: Oh
[00:02:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: my gosh. And you can change the expectation in one of the best ways is through visual [00:02:25] imagery.
[00:02:25] Dr. Taz: Wow.
[00:02:25] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Because once your brain has seen something. It now [00:02:30] understands that it's a possibility.
[00:02:31] Dr. Taz: In this conversation, we talk about why toxic positivity [00:02:35] makes stress worse.
[00:02:36] Dr. Taz: How awe and micro habits come and overwhelm [00:02:40] mind and why naming your emotions honestly is one of the strongest [00:02:45] psychological tools you have. Or some brains born more pre-wired for [00:02:50] negativity and more resistant to optimism than others. Great [00:02:55] question. I think a lot of people.[00:03:00]
[00:03:01] Dr. Taz: This episode is sponsored by Whole Plus, a holistic health [00:03:05] platform built around education, personalization, and integrative care. [00:03:10] Whole plus blends holistic, integrative and functional medicine clinics with learning [00:03:15] resources like blogs, YouTube videos, and of course, this podcast. So you're not just [00:03:20] treated, you're informed.
[00:03:21] Dr. Taz: The platform also includes holistic health quizzes and a curated [00:03:25] wellness shop, helping you make choices that support your body at the root level. [00:03:30] Whole Plus is holistic healthcare designed for real life. Visit [00:03:35] us@wholeplus.co to learn more about the platform. Again, that's [00:03:40] HOL ps.co. Okay. Dr. Chopra, you're here and [00:03:45] you're gonna try to teach
[00:03:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: us about optimism.
[00:03:49] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Are we not optimistic [00:03:50] enough? Tricky question. I think optimism really. [00:03:55] Gets sort of a interesting definition a lot, and it's wrong. [00:04:00] Um, I think it's, um, defined incorrectly all the time. So I think [00:04:05] what's interesting about that is I think a lot of people think they're not optimistic, but when they learn [00:04:10] what real optimism is, I think a lot of people are like, oh, I, I guess I am [00:04:15] sort of more optimistic than I thought, but past that, I think that [00:04:20] we could always be more optimistic.
[00:04:21] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And there is, and I'm sure you know this, but there is just. [00:04:25] Plethora of research to show why being optimistic is so beneficial, [00:04:30] not just, I think we obviously can think about emotionally. Mm-hmm. Why that makes sense. Mm-hmm. [00:04:35] But the part that's like astounding is, is physically and [00:04:40] biologically why optimism is so important for not only living a [00:04:45] long time, but thriving.
[00:04:47] Dr. Taz: So, you know, optimism, when I hear that word, I [00:04:50] start thinking like. And please don't make, please don't roll your eyes that this Oh, no, I heard all, I start thinking, [00:04:55] I started thinking like, positive vibes only.
[00:04:57] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. Or
[00:04:58] Dr. Taz: like, I'm gonna protect my peace, [00:05:00] or mm-hmm. You know, like, okay, glass half
[00:05:02] Dr. Deepika Chopra: full.
[00:05:02] Dr. Taz: Exactly.
[00:05:04] Dr. Taz: Rose, rose
[00:05:04] Dr. Deepika Chopra: colored [00:05:05] glasses. Like,
[00:05:05] Dr. Taz: we're gonna like manifest this. Oh yeah. Like those are the things that I hear. [00:05:10] What are we talking about the same thing?
[00:05:11] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Not really.
[00:05:12] Dr. Taz: Okay. I had a feeling.
[00:05:13] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. [00:05:15] Um, it's funny you say that. So whenever I'm speaking to like a really large group of people, I always love [00:05:20] to start and ask people like.
[00:05:22] Dr. Deepika Chopra: What's the first word that comes to your mind when you [00:05:25] think about optimism? And of course, like it makes a lot of sense. You're not alone. [00:05:30] It's like a resounding roar of like positivity. Yeah. You know? [00:05:35] Definitely. And I think that it's surprising to people when they are hearing from [00:05:40] someone that sort of specializes in optimism or known as the optimism doctor to say that.[00:05:45]
[00:05:45] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Positivity is probably like maybe word three or four on my list. [00:05:50] And yes, they have a lot in common. I kind of like to think of them as like cousins, but [00:05:55] the two words that come to mind very strongly for me when I think about this notion and idea [00:06:00] of optimism is resiliency. Curiosity.
[00:06:04] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:06:04] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And those [00:06:05] are stronger sort of synonyms with optimism than positivity is.
[00:06:09] Dr. Taz: So [00:06:10] resiliency and curiosity, yes. I'm gonna ask a non-op, I'm an [00:06:15] optimist, but I'm gonna pretend like I'm not. But I'm gonna ask a non optimist, pessimistic question, like, [00:06:20] why do we need to care?
[00:06:21] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Dr. Taz: About optimism. Why, why does it matter in the health context? Yeah. Why [00:06:25] does it matter in the community or the family world?
[00:06:28] Dr. Taz: You know, we have all [00:06:30] studied those studies, right? That say that we have, uh, primate brains that are [00:06:35] wired for negativity. Yeah. Um, why, what got you into this? [00:06:40] Why, why do you care about us being resilient and curious
[00:06:43] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So, [00:06:45] so much there, number one. I think it's so interesting from an evolutionary standpoint, [00:06:50] we were wired, we are wired to be more pessimistic, and that [00:06:55] worked for us.
[00:06:55] Dr. Deepika Chopra: A very, very long time ago, our ancestors were running away from [00:07:00] saber-tooth tigers, and the ones that got away are the ones that were [00:07:05] constantly. Ruminating over worst case scenario. And they applied that they got [00:07:10] away and then they survived and then they passed that down and so on. [00:07:15] And right now we still live in a world where there are predators.
[00:07:19] Dr. Deepika Chopra: We won't talk about [00:07:20] who they are. Yes. What they look like, but we, they look very different than saber-tooth tiger. Right? [00:07:25] And what we do know is in our modern society and modern world. [00:07:30] Constantly and chronically imagining worst case scenario and ruminating about that is [00:07:35] not helpful to our survival anymore.
[00:07:36] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm. And so actually the opposite is necessary for thriving. And [00:07:40] there's been a ton of research done on people that, uh, score higher o on [00:07:45] optimism levels. They. Get sick less often. They bounce back [00:07:50] from common respiratory viruses very quickly. They have, they have much lower [00:07:55] cardiovascular issues. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:56] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And greater cardiovascular health. They, this [00:08:00] one's really big, but they hold much more, um, [00:08:05] sort of rich connections and friendships and relationships. And of [00:08:10] course, the Harvard study that came out recently, the, the longitudinal study. Yeah. That was so powerful on [00:08:15] sort of what is the one. Predicting factor that you can tell when someone's gonna be happy [00:08:20] later in life.
[00:08:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And it all came back to their quality of relationships and connection.
[00:08:24] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:08:25]
[00:08:25] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Um, optimistic people are more productive. They, [00:08:30] um, they're more desirable and likable. Um, and so that goes [00:08:35] with the connection and that also goes with, it helps with production as well. Um, [00:08:40] so across the board there is just a. So many reasons, and it's [00:08:45] not just like happiness.
[00:08:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's very particular to optimism and I [00:08:50] think I sort of glossed over, but the true definition of optimism [00:08:55] is. It's someone that is not devoid of reality. I think we think that a lot [00:09:00] like ignorance is bliss, but the true definition of someone who is optimistic is [00:09:05] someone who is keenly and very mindfully aware of the [00:09:10] setbacks and the roadblocks and the less than ideal situations.
[00:09:13] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But the caveat is they see those [00:09:15] things as temporary. Mm, and that they innately know that they have the ability to [00:09:20] persevere through those setbacks solely based on their own history of [00:09:25] resiliency.
[00:09:25] Dr. Taz: Wow. So you mentioned that the early part before we were talking, that the early part [00:09:30] of your career was, uh, psych oncology, correct?
[00:09:33] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. There was a, a [00:09:35] big portion of my career in, in psycho-oncology.
[00:09:37] Dr. Taz: So tell us a little bit about that [00:09:40] field and how the seeds of this work really began. Because I think I remember even [00:09:45] maybe just. Recently, like a month ago, seeing a study around, you know, the people that do [00:09:50] well with cancer, who have good outcomes are people that are typically optimistic.
[00:09:54] Dr. Taz: [00:09:55] Yes. You know, so I'm wondering if that's sort of where
[00:09:57] Dr. Deepika Chopra: mm-hmm.
[00:09:57] Dr. Taz: Where this kind of planted for you. So Phil, you know, [00:10:00] maybe fill us it on that leg.
[00:10:01] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Dr. Taz: What you were going through.
[00:10:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I mean, I [00:10:05] was, I did my practicum and my internship and also one of my [00:10:10] fellowships, um, in that space. Mm-hmm. It was sort of interesting because [00:10:15] it, it sounds.
[00:10:16] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Like it makes sense now, but at the time, this was [00:10:20] a while back, I feel like not a lot of people were talking about this idea of optimism. [00:10:25] I think we were just really getting into, at least psychologically the [00:10:30] idea of being in the present. Mm-hmm. So CBT focuses cognitive behavioral,
[00:10:34] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:10:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. [00:10:35] Um, therapy focuses a lot on the present, which.
[00:10:38] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I, most of my foundation [00:10:40] comes from, and I truly believe in that. But at the very same time, I was learning so much [00:10:45] about the brain and everything I was learning about the brain was pointing towards the brain being this [00:10:50] anticipatory organ.
[00:10:51] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So it's constantly acting and sort of [00:10:55] behaving in ways of the future.
[00:10:56] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And it was interesting to me. So that's like. Five seconds from [00:11:00] now, a minute from now, five months from now. Anything that is in the future, that's how our brains work. [00:11:05] And it was interesting that we weren't really, or I wasn't being taught [00:11:10] anything modality wise, um, and intervention wise to work with people on what they were [00:11:15] thinking or expecting to happen in their future, even if it was minutes from now.
[00:11:19] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And when you [00:11:20] really think about it. Someone feels their emotion, they feel the way they feel [00:11:25] because they have made a decision or an idea about how something will go [00:11:30] or occur. And so at the very same time, I was working, you know, in the [00:11:35] oncology space and with people that were diagnosed with cancer and their families.
[00:11:39] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. And [00:11:40] it seemed like a strange place to talk about optimism. Because there [00:11:45] was a lot to not be so hopeful about.
[00:11:48] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:11:48] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But yes, you're [00:11:50] right. There's actually tons of research done that it actually changes outcomes. And [00:11:55] I mean, the same thing is true for people that have gone through. Any sort [00:12:00] of really, really traumatic experience.
[00:12:02] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Um, you know, one of the guests on my [00:12:05] podcast, my previous podcast was, um, one of the oldest Holocaust survivors.
[00:12:09] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:12:09] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:12:10] And something that was so evident in her experience, even as a little girl. During [00:12:15] that, that time she was so optimistic. She woke up every morning [00:12:20] and she thought about her future. Mm-hmm. And visualized what her future might be, even though her [00:12:25] circumstances around her and most people around her were keenly, sort of aware of the very [00:12:30] reality they were living.
[00:12:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And that's what kept her going.
[00:12:33] Dr. Taz: Wow.
[00:12:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And. [00:12:35] So, yeah, I dunno if I answered your question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Altogether. But it was an interesting, and I think, I thought during that [00:12:40] time I was starting to utilize some sort of more, I guess, [00:12:45] innovative modalities, and I had really amazing supervisors who were [00:12:50] sort of like, sure, um, you're studying this or you're kind of going down this avenue.
[00:12:54] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You can try this [00:12:55] out on our population. I think I, after a couple years of that, I was like, if these [00:13:00] things are so evidently working in this population during this very traumatic [00:13:05] time, imagine also what these sort of, you know, tools [00:13:10] could do for. Other people?
[00:13:13] Dr. Taz: What were some of the things that were [00:13:15] working?
[00:13:15] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So, you know, one thing that is sort of for me that goes [00:13:20] hand in hand with actually increasing someone's optimism is the idea of sensory-based visual [00:13:25] imagery.
[00:13:25] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:13:25] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so. It's the idea that I'm sure we, you've all, everyone's heard of this [00:13:30] idea of visualization, but I don't think a lot of people know there's real science behind it.
[00:13:33] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:13:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:13:35] And the interesting thing is our brain has mirror neurons and the [00:13:40] brain actually doesn't know the difference or can't tell the difference between what you're imagining [00:13:45] if you're really imagining it using all your senses and what you're actually doing. Hmm. So people that like [00:13:50] watch that show Dancing with the Stars.
[00:13:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. Or something. Or watch people dancing. Yeah. Your brain is firing [00:13:55] the mirror. Neurons are. Firing the same way as if they would be dancing. And so a lot of times
[00:13:59] Dr. Taz: you can sing then [00:14:00]
[00:14:00] Dr. Deepika Chopra: yeah, you can sing, or your brain thinks you can sing, right? You're watching someone sing, right? And you're [00:14:05] putting yourself sort of in there, or you're visualizing yourself singing.
[00:14:08] Dr. Deepika Chopra: That's like the piece.
[00:14:09] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:14:09] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And [00:14:10] so this was used a lot in sports psychology. So there's a ton of research on this. Like we know [00:14:15] that your body has a limited ability to practice. And so [00:14:20] sometimes you know these really elite athletes, you have to. Tap into the mental [00:14:25] practice.
[00:14:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:26] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And that's a really big part of sports psychology.
[00:14:28] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so [00:14:30] taking the research from there and applying it to, you know, the population [00:14:35] that maybe is not an elite athlete.
[00:14:36] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:14:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's just as powerful. And so the part [00:14:40] for me that's so interesting is so. A lot of times, of course we all [00:14:45] know we have self-limiting beliefs,
[00:14:46] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:14:47] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And we have come up with these sort of core [00:14:50] beliefs about ourselves that in rational sort of setting, we can all say like.
[00:14:54] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:14:55] This is a really crappy belief I have about myself, and I know rationally [00:15:00] it's not helping me.
[00:15:00] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:01] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Get to where I wanna go.
[00:15:02] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:15:02] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But like you're stuck with how, I [00:15:05] mean, maybe it's been 40 plus years that you have collected all this evidence to make that belief [00:15:10] true. And so my issue with kind of what happens next in a lot of the like somewhat [00:15:15] new age modalities is someone might tell you to just repeat an affirmation.
[00:15:19] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:15:20]
[00:15:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And all the evidence shows that. Unfortunately, [00:15:25] like if you don't truly believe the affirmation you're saying, it will just work [00:15:30] the opposite and negatively for you. And not only now have you said something you don't believe, your [00:15:35] brain then, which is a very powerful organ, right, comes back to you in that moment and starts [00:15:40] flipping through like.
[00:15:41] Dr. Deepika Chopra: How dumb that you just said that. I'm gonna give you 35 examples, why that's not [00:15:45] true, and now you feel shame on top of it. And so the true thing [00:15:50] really there is how can we chip away at someone's core belief that's not working for them and collect [00:15:55] more evidence for them to show that something better for them is possible.
[00:15:59] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Your brain [00:16:00] only actually starts to put forth the energy and the. [00:16:05] Executive functioning in, you know, the prefrontal cortex mm-hmm. To start coming up with solutions if it thinks that what you [00:16:10] want is possible,
[00:16:11] Dr. Taz: but how do you do? So talk to us then about the sensory [00:16:15] visualization. Yeah. Because, you know, I have a mindfulness practice.
[00:16:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. I journal, I do these [00:16:20] things. How do I, like, how do I know I'm doing them to the point that my [00:16:25] brain actually believes that the things I'm writing and saying are are really true. Are really true. [00:16:30]
[00:16:30] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So one of the best ways. There's a couple different ways, but one of the best ways I [00:16:35] am, I think because I come from the CBT background.
[00:16:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah. I love evidence-based and I [00:16:40] love measurable things.
[00:16:40] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:16:41] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I measure everything.
[00:16:42] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:16:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: One outta 10.
[00:16:43] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:16:43] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Simple measurement. [00:16:45] So if you are going to, uh. Write something, say something, repeat something. Brain [00:16:50] loves repetition. I would ask myself and rate, how much do I actually believe this from [00:16:55] one to 10?
[00:16:55] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Or how likely is this to actually, how do, how much do I believe [00:17:00] this is gonna occur? One to 10. And the difference there is a lot of people can want [00:17:05] something 10 outta 10 they could want, but their expectation do you expect this [00:17:10] is actually gonna happen is like a four.
[00:17:12] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:17:12] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And unless we do the work to close that gap.[00:17:15]
[00:17:15] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Of the 10 and the four, your brain is probably not working for you to get there with the solutions. And [00:17:20] so the big takeaway is sort of like you don't always get what you want, but you [00:17:25] most likely always get what you expect.
[00:17:26] Dr. Taz: Oh my
[00:17:27] Dr. Deepika Chopra: gosh. And you can change the expectation in one of the best [00:17:30] ways is through visual imagery.
[00:17:31] Dr. Taz: Wow. '
[00:17:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: cause once your brain has seen something, [00:17:35] it now understands that it's a possibility. And the more you visualize it and use [00:17:40] all the senses, because that's a powerful part of turning that part on in the brain and the mirror [00:17:45] neurons, it's seen it now. It's seen yourself as it now, and it now [00:17:50] believes it is closer of a possibility than you just saying, I really want a great relationship.
[00:17:54] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm. [00:17:55] Or I want this promotion. I mean, you could want [00:18:00] that, but based on your experience of the last 20 years and whatever your setbacks [00:18:05] are or your core beliefs, I many times I will sit down with someone and they're like, that's what [00:18:10] I truly want, and I'm like. How likely do you think that is to happen for you?
[00:18:14] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And [00:18:15] they're like, well,
[00:18:15] Dr. Taz: so how do we change our expectations?
[00:18:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So a lot of it is [00:18:20] collecting evidence. I, I believe we are all, what the brain loves is to be a [00:18:25] detective. We've already been doing that. It's naturally what we do. We collect, collect evidence, sorting.
[00:18:29] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:18:30]
[00:18:30] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And we have a bunch of cognitive biases.
[00:18:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So you know, things that [00:18:35] help us. You know, to sort of make shortcuts and we need those, but oftentimes [00:18:40] they're putting us in this automatic, which we need, but in, if you, if those go unchecked, a lot [00:18:45] of times they're working against you. So you might, you know, be someone that has this core [00:18:50] belief that, you know, you're not very likable.
[00:18:53] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm unlikable. [00:18:55] And you might go to a social setting, like a party and someone might [00:19:00] say to you like. Wow. Like I really thought that story you told was [00:19:05] like so funny. Yeah. Like you're funny.
[00:19:06] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:19:06] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And then you know, someone else might [00:19:10] say to you another type of compliment and then someone else might come up to you and just be like, [00:19:15] huh, I didn't get that.
[00:19:16] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And based on your core belief, you probably [00:19:20] put value on that third comment so much more than you do any of the other [00:19:25] comments and you leave and you collect. The evidence you collected from that night was. Gosh, I [00:19:30] can't tell a great story. Mm, nobody got it.
[00:19:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Even though there was evidence there, [00:19:35] you just weren't programmed to receive it, that was actually telling you something different.
[00:19:39] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Gotcha. So it's about [00:19:40] intentionally. Challenging yourself,
[00:19:43] Dr. Taz: putting you in situations.
[00:19:44] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:19:44] Dr. Taz: [00:19:45] To be able to collect better evidence,
[00:19:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: collect better evidence. It's there. It's sort of like sometimes I [00:19:50] work with a client and I'll say, I want you to go home and [00:19:55] all day tomorrow. I want you to think about the color red.
[00:19:57] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:58] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Just think about red and then [00:20:00] come back and tell me. What that was like. And they may come back and tell me or shoot me a [00:20:05] quick email and be like, oh my gosh, like I saw 15 red cars, [00:20:10] like four people when I was walking to work were wearing red. And it's not [00:20:15] because I paid them to wear red that day or anything.
[00:20:17] Dr. Deepika Chopra: They've always been there. It's just what you [00:20:20] were intentionally choosing to be attuned to. And so it's sort of a proof that [00:20:25] there is other evidence out there. You are just not. You are not tuned into that [00:20:30] radio station.
[00:20:30] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:20:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And you can tune into a different radio station. It takes work and [00:20:35] intention and practice.
[00:20:36] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But once you do and you tune into whatever that radio station is, you start [00:20:40] collecting evidence that you want to collect. Your brain is more likely to now seek that out. 'cause [00:20:45] it's seen it, it's now programmed it, it's gonna create another shortcut. So [00:20:50] lots to be done there. Yeah. For someone that is stuck.
[00:20:52] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Stuck.
[00:20:52] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:20:53] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Which I talk about in, [00:20:55] in one of the chapters in this book. Um, you know, I was sitting across, after I'd done this [00:21:00] a bunch of times, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm onto something here.
[00:21:02] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:21:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So, you know, I'd [00:21:05] ask the person in front of me to sort of like visualize, you know, what it is that they [00:21:10] really wanted.
[00:21:11] Dr. Deepika Chopra: This particular patient of mine at the time was [00:21:15] super, super stuck. Had a very, very rigid core belief about [00:21:20] himself. And when I, and he really wanted to be in a loving, respectful relationship. [00:21:25] And when I had asked him to imagine that I was not expecting this, but I asked [00:21:30] him, let's, why don't you imagine what it's like to be, you know, in this relationship?
[00:21:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And he just looked at [00:21:35] me and he laughed. He just was like, literally could not stop laughing. [00:21:40] And I was like, he's like, how could you ever expect me to imagine that? [00:21:45] That is so unlikely? And he just could not, like, he couldn't go there [00:21:50] cognitively yet. And so I tried a different approach where I was like, okay, this is not gonna work [00:21:55] this simply for everyone.
[00:21:57] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Depends how deep this core belief is, right? [00:22:00] And so I sort of, you know, and I say this in a. [00:22:05] I wish there was a better way to say this. Maybe I'll come up with a better way to say this over time, but [00:22:10] I sort of positively manipulated him. Sometimes we have to do these things that are for the best [00:22:15] intentions.
[00:22:15] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm-hmm. But sort of a manipulation.
[00:22:16] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And instead of asking him to [00:22:20] visualize it, I asked him a very direct question and I said, who's the first person that you're gonna tell [00:22:25] when you are in this loving long-term relationship? And [00:22:30] he immediately said, my mom.
[00:22:31] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And I was like, oh, where are you when you're telling your mom?[00:22:35]
[00:22:35] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And he could go there, I'm in her room, I'm doing this. What does it smell [00:22:40] like? What does it sound like? What is she wearing? What's around you? Do you hear any sounds? And so now we've [00:22:45] created a visualization of him talking about this life that he. [00:22:50] Currently in like in his imagination, and now it becomes closer to a [00:22:55] possibility.
[00:22:55] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:22:55] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So he's opened a window.
[00:22:57] Dr. Taz: Gotcha.
[00:22:57] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And then we start from there.
[00:22:58] Dr. Taz: Ah, so [00:23:00] interesting.
[00:23:00] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:23:01] Dr. Taz: So if you're trying to do this on your own
[00:23:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: mm-hmm.
[00:23:03] Dr. Taz: Or do you, well, let's ask that question [00:23:05] first. Do you recommend walking through this sensory visualization exercise on your own? [00:23:10]
[00:23:10] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah, I actually, again, it's one of the chapters in the book.
[00:23:13] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Okay. And I was like, I really want to [00:23:15] break this down so that someone at home can do this. Of course, you know, [00:23:20] there are many caveats and oftentimes when you are going through something [00:23:25] or there is something very deep seated, I think. Working. There's no [00:23:30] better way than to work with a professional.
[00:23:31] Dr. Taz: Gotcha.
[00:23:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Um, there's a lot of science behind this and [00:23:35] so for me, this work is so exciting. There's like science behind [00:23:40] when you should use third person visual imagery. Oh my gosh. When you should, when you use first person. I mean, it's really, really [00:23:45] exciting and interesting and I. Nerd out about it. Yeah. And so I would always say there is a [00:23:50] way to start this practice and to continue to repeat it again.
[00:23:54] Dr. Deepika Chopra: The brain [00:23:55] loves repetition and there is a more simple sort of format that [00:24:00] you can always start and if you wanna go deeper into it, I think finding someone that [00:24:05] specializes in sensory-based visual imagery and that's something that I'm super [00:24:10] passionate about and I love doing, um, is probably really helpful.
[00:24:14] Dr. Taz: Let's go into some. [00:24:15] Specific examples. I'm just curious. So you've been given a diagnosis, [00:24:20] cancer, diabetes, heart disease, autoimmune disease. You've [00:24:25] been told that the disease is pretty advanced. Mm-hmm. And you're your [00:24:30] three medications that you need to take to reverse the disease. In the case of cancer, you know, the [00:24:35] usual spouting of statistics.
[00:24:36] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. You've got a one in four chance to survive. [00:24:40] What works for that patient?
[00:24:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So I wanna be clear that like all of this [00:24:45] stuff is not, you know, in place [00:24:50] of treatment,
[00:24:51] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:24:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's very much supplemental and adjunctive and a [00:24:55] lot of times it can help. I think the patient do better with treatment, whether that is [00:25:00] actually calming the nervous system down and better receiving, or whether that's [00:25:05] actually just helping a patient be more compliant.
[00:25:07] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And that's a big part of it.
[00:25:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:25:09] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:25:10] So for me, a lot of the work, which sounds. Also, a lot of this was counterintuitive at [00:25:15] first for me. A lot of the work in visual imagery I did when I was in the oncology world is [00:25:20] I would sit with patients while they were getting chemo treatments and infusions, and I would take them through a [00:25:25] visual imagery of actually imagining the treatment killing in an aggressive way, the [00:25:30] cancer cells.
[00:25:30] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And there's a lot of research behind that. And so it helped [00:25:35] to sort of, you know, a lot of people obviously coming in and I can [00:25:40] completely understand why. You look at your treatment of chemo as like a [00:25:45] really awful thing, right? It's toxic, right?
[00:25:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:25:48] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And you don't wanna do that, [00:25:50] but at the same time, it is.
[00:25:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Your best chance, a best case scenario in addition to other things, but [00:25:55] chemo's a huge part of this, or surgery, for example. Mm-hmm. No one's excited about the surgery. It's [00:26:00] awful. And, but a lot of times it's what's lifesaving,
[00:26:03] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:26:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so being [00:26:05] able to visualize your body. Working with whatever the treatment is [00:26:10] or sort of imagining it, do what you want it to do is [00:26:15] not only powerful for the brain and helps you get through something that is really tough and [00:26:20] there's a lot of significance in that.
[00:26:21] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm-hmm. As you, you must know, but also it [00:26:25] physically can change the way your cells, the C chemistry. Yeah, the chemistry.
[00:26:28] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:26:29] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So we [00:26:30] know that even with things like when you get a blood draw, if you're tense. [00:26:35] And you are, which by the way is me. If you're super tense, [00:26:40] it makes it really hard to find a vein.
[00:26:41] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:26:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Right. If you're holding your breath, you know how many [00:26:45] times, and, and I can talk about this 'cause I have needle phobia.
[00:26:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:26:48] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But actually [00:26:50] exhaling when the needle comes in. Or exhaling when you were about to [00:26:55] have something painful happen. Not only is there to sort of just be like, Hey, take a deep breath, [00:27:00] and it like sort of helps to relax your brain.
[00:27:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It actually helps to relax [00:27:05] the muscle and the vein there and it opens that up and it [00:27:10] relaxes your whole nervous system. Mm-hmm. And. In some ways, like I have [00:27:15] used it and when I exhale, I actually don't feel the pain. Right,
[00:27:18] Dr. Taz: right.
[00:27:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But when you tense something, [00:27:20] so there's a lot of reasons why it doesn't change the circumstance.[00:27:25]
[00:27:25] Dr. Deepika Chopra: That's clear. Yeah. Like this is not about, I love magical thinking, but this is [00:27:30] not necessarily what we're talking magic about. Magic. Right.
[00:27:31] Dr. Taz: It's
[00:27:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: not magic. Right. But you know. I remember [00:27:35] going through tons of, you know, over and over visual imageries with [00:27:40] patients while they were receiving chemo. And it's very, it's very specific.
[00:27:44] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:27:45] Mm-hmm. And it's actually the more like aggressive, you can imagine, like tiny soldiers coming [00:27:50] in and you know. Shooting the The cells. Yeah. Or whatever it is. You start to [00:27:55] learn with someone. What they
[00:27:56] Dr. Taz: makes is that the primary tool, the sensory visualization, is that the [00:28:00] primary tool for this idea around optimism?[00:28:05]
[00:28:05] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I wouldn't say it's the only tool. There's many tools. It's why I have this thing called [00:28:10] things are looking up the deck of cards. Mm-hmm. There's 52 different science-based sort of prompts that are more [00:28:15] like you can just pick one up and they're less than like 15 seconds and they actually have a science-based prompt.
[00:28:19] Dr. Deepika Chopra: The good [00:28:20] news is there's so much you can do. Optimism's muscle, that's what I like to say. [00:28:25] Optimism is a muscle and we have to work it out in order to. Gain [00:28:30] to, to build it.
[00:28:31] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:28:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so there's many different ways. Sensory-based visual imagery is one [00:28:35] of, I would say, the most significant and powerful ways to sort of [00:28:40] work with a really self-limiting deep or belief.
[00:28:44] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:44] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:28:45] That is in the way of you feeling hopeful
[00:28:48] Dr. Taz: if you're listening to [00:28:50] this and thinking, I know something is often my body, but I [00:28:55] don't know where to start. This is for you. That's why I created the [00:29:00] circle. The circle is my private community where I and my team focus on understanding [00:29:05] your body from hormones and stress to metabolic health and longevity with real [00:29:10] life guidance that you can actually use.
[00:29:12] Dr. Taz: This is about clarity and consistency [00:29:15] and support beyond the exam room. And maybe outside of all the different [00:29:20] appointments and experts that you've been running around to, you can try the circle with a one [00:29:25] month trial using the promo code podcast@wholeplus.co [00:29:30] slash circle. Again,
[00:29:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: that's whole plus to HOL ppls.co [00:29:35] back slash circle.
[00:29:36] Dr. Deepika Chopra: All right, let's jump back into the episode.
[00:29:39] Dr. Taz: What about [00:29:40] someone who wants financial success? Like I wanna be a billionaire. Mm-hmm. [00:29:45] You talked about the partner?
[00:29:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:47] Dr. Taz: Partner, uh, analogy, like
[00:29:49] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:29:49] Dr. Taz: [00:29:50] Does, yeah. Does what they do different than what the patient needs to do?
[00:29:54] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:29:55] It works in the same way in the sense that if you, you can be someone that's like, I wanna be [00:30:00] a billionaire.
[00:30:00] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Well, that's wonderful. I ask a lot of people in a large group [00:30:05] and I say, how many of you guys wanna win the lottery? And you know, the question is, [00:30:10] do you want to win the lottery?
[00:30:11] Dr. Taz: Right?
[00:30:11] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Most people will raise their hand and be like, of course I wanna win the lottery.
[00:30:14] Dr. Taz: Right?
[00:30:14] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And [00:30:15] then all those people, I have them keep their hands up and I'm like, okay, keep your hand up.
[00:30:19] Dr. Deepika Chopra: If you bought a [00:30:20] lotto ticket today. You will very promptly see everyone's hands go down. [00:30:25] And to me that makes perfect sense because you don't think you can actually win the [00:30:30] lottery. It is something that is not something you expect. And so your brain is not [00:30:35] putting forth the solution focused part of it, and then you taking an actionable [00:30:40] step to make it happen.
[00:30:40] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You can't win the lottery without buying a lottery ticket.
[00:30:42] Dr. Taz: Right? Right.
[00:30:43] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But you're not gonna buy the lottery [00:30:45] ticket because if you don't think you're gonna win.
[00:30:46] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:30:47] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so it's the same sort of thing like I would [00:30:50] then. That's great. If someone can imagine their life as a billionaire, I would [00:30:55] wanna go further and and understand why.
[00:30:57] Dr. Deepika Chopra: What is the purpose? What are they gonna gain out of their life [00:31:00] truly with that? And how much better is their life gonna be or different their life gonna be than [00:31:05] what they currently have? And then past that, do they actually expect that? Can [00:31:10] happen for them.
[00:31:10] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:31:11] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And if they do, then great. Then we have a place, a [00:31:15] really great place to start from.
[00:31:16] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And when you expect it to happen, then you start putting your, your [00:31:20] brain starts coming up with solutions and you put yourself in scenarios or places [00:31:25] or you know, on a path that can actually actionably work [00:31:30] towards that. This takes work.
[00:31:30] Dr. Taz: Interesting.
[00:31:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: This is not a
[00:31:33] Dr. Taz: for and
[00:31:33] Dr. Deepika Chopra: fall in your lap
[00:31:33] Dr. Taz: if you Exactly.
[00:31:34] Dr. Taz: If you're [00:31:35] doing sensory visualization, do you do it every day? Is like, do you do it a [00:31:40] couple times a day? Mm-hmm. Do you spend time in that space?
[00:31:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:31:43] Dr. Taz: Like, you know, is [00:31:45] there science or is there any structure mm-hmm. To like how much, how often? How frequently Yeah. To change your [00:31:50] brain.
[00:31:50] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yes. You
[00:31:50] Dr. Taz: know, so,
[00:31:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: yes.
[00:31:52] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And the true sort of the, [00:31:55] the caveat or the main thing there is that it all has to be believable. It [00:32:00] doesn't mean that when you're, you know, thinking about things you have to be. Exactly how [00:32:05] things are today. You can dream and you should, and you should have lofty [00:32:10] goals as well. Um, big, big, lofty goals. But as long as you believe [00:32:15] that you have the, you're in the business of like.
[00:32:17] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Being someone that deserves that. [00:32:20] Mm-hmm. Or can get that. Mm-hmm. Or will get that. And the thing is, you don't have to know how or when that [00:32:25] stuff comes. If you truly believe that it's possible, you know, you, you make that [00:32:30] way. And you have to understand that it takes work.
[00:32:32] Dr. Taz: So interesting to me, are some [00:32:35] brains not, I don't wanna say capable, but are some [00:32:40] brains born more pre-wired for negativity and more resistant [00:32:45] to optimism than others?
[00:32:47] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Great question. I think a lot of people, you know, [00:32:50] go through life thinking, well, I was born a pessimist, or I'm, [00:32:55] I've always been an optimist, or, I am pessimistic because my [00:33:00] mom. And dad, X, Y, Z or my grandma. Right. Or culturally
[00:33:03] Dr. Taz: right.
[00:33:04] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You know, and [00:33:05] yes, there is a, um, genetic component. There is an irritability,
[00:33:09] Dr. Taz: [00:33:10] okay.
[00:33:10] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Part of it. But the good news is it's actually much lower than I was thinking. [00:33:15] It varies in research, and the most I've ever seen is 25%.
[00:33:18] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:33:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So the [00:33:20] majority is actually a learned process. So you can learn like a muscle, you can [00:33:25] work it out. You can learn to be more optimistic, which is amazing.
[00:33:28] Dr. Taz: Yeah. And is that [00:33:30] again, something that someone has to be conscious of?
[00:33:33] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Like if they've modeled [00:33:35] negative, pessimistic behavior? Mm-hmm. Yes. Victim behavior, you know, those type of things [00:33:40] over a long period of time. Mm-hmm. What can they realistically expect in terms of doing [00:33:45] this work and seeing a change?
[00:33:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I am such a big believer again, [00:33:50] unmeasurable. Yeah. And coming from my CBT background,
[00:33:52] Dr. Taz: yeah.
[00:33:53] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I believe in big, [00:33:55] lofty goals and small, attainable, reachable goals. And [00:34:00] I, when I, you know, see people in more of a traditional practice, I don't call [00:34:05] it therapy, I call it self-worth work.
[00:34:06] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:34:07] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Um, which I feel like is a good way of [00:34:10] understanding that. You're here and your purpose, you're, you're here because [00:34:15] your purpose is, you believe in yourself, you're worth it, and you're willing to do the work.
[00:34:19] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So [00:34:20] there's like a accountability and a purpose behind it. Gotcha. Where you're [00:34:25] choosing yourself. Yeah. And that's why I call it self worth work, but I [00:34:30] truly believe that between three and six months, like real change
[00:34:34] Dr. Taz: happens,
[00:34:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: happens [00:34:35] and can happen. And should happen's. Incredible. I mean, it's small. But your [00:34:40] brain, in order to get to the bigger stuff it takes, it takes these [00:34:45] small steps.
[00:34:45] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And once you have these new evidence to kind of build in, so [00:34:50] the best example is sort of like, I'm not here to disprove. [00:34:55] Your negative core belief today. I don't even want to, I [00:35:00] actually wanna validate to you why you have this core belief. I totally get it. You've, [00:35:05] you know, worked on this belief for 30 plus years.
[00:35:08] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:08] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You've collected all this evidence. [00:35:10] I'm not gonna be here to tell you that. You need to take that belief and check it out the window.
[00:35:13] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:35:14] Dr. Deepika Chopra: That would be [00:35:15] like very invalidating. And so let's leave that belief right here. I [00:35:20] know you still hold onto it, but let's start a look at, so let's say that core belief is, I don't like myself, [00:35:25] I do not like myself.
[00:35:26] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I, I don't feel like I'm a deserving person of [00:35:30] love. Um, you know, and I'm gonna hold that belief and here's all the examples [00:35:35] why I might ask that person. Like if you could just think of one thing [00:35:40] that you just sort of like about yourself, just one thing. It doesn't mean you're taking that [00:35:45] belief. Like you could still hold that belief.
[00:35:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And I get it. There's gotta just be one thing that you kind of like about [00:35:50] yourself, and sometimes it's a struggle for people, right? Other people, even though they hold this belief can be like, well, [00:35:55] you know, I guess I like, um, that I'm a loyal friend. [00:36:00] I think I'm a good friend. Or, you know, and then I might ask them like, why do you think you're a good friend?
[00:36:04] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And then they might come [00:36:05] up with, you know, examples of, you know, I. I'm always there for my [00:36:10] friend. My friend called me last week with a problem and I listened, or my friend needed a ride the [00:36:15] other day and I was there, so they have some examples of why, right? And so that that is [00:36:20] true. One outta 10. How much do you believe you're a good friend?
[00:36:24] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Nine, [00:36:25] eight. Okay, great. So I'd rather them focus on that. That's their affirmation to me. Mm. [00:36:30] It's not, I love myself. I'm a good person. It's, I'm a good friend.
[00:36:34] Dr. Taz: So specific.
[00:36:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's [00:36:35] very specific. It's believable. Yeah. And once you say that in front of the mirror three times, I'm a good [00:36:40] friend.
[00:36:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:36:40] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Your brain is like, yeah, you are a good friend.
[00:36:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And it starts to look and soften and open [00:36:45] up to other sort of like examples. And then you might be like. I [00:36:50] like the way I tell a story.
[00:36:51] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Or I'm actually really smart, [00:36:55] or I'm a great reader, and you start coming up with all these things. So maybe now after a couple weeks, you [00:37:00] might have like 15 things that in your mind we're not.
[00:37:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Groundbreaking, but they [00:37:05] are examples of things you like about yourself is
[00:37:06] Dr. Taz: that collecting evidence.
[00:37:07] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's collecting evidence and it's [00:37:10] disproving. So you may not be able to chuck that belief or to change it. You may not be able to [00:37:15] flip it and say, I love myself, which most people will tell you when you say, I just, oh wow.
[00:37:19] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:37:20] We've identified. Your core belief is you don't really like yourself. I want you to stand in front of the mirror and say, I love [00:37:25] myself three times before going to bed. That's what most people will tell you to do. Right? Which is right. [00:37:30] Honestly, not a good way to go. But after doing the other thing we [00:37:35] said and really truly saying, I'm a good friend.
[00:37:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I'm a great storyteller. Um, [00:37:40] I am a great cook. You know, whatever it is, I love my smile. Whatever it is, [00:37:45] these, these, you know, range of things. Maybe we have 15. I might look at them and be [00:37:50] like, well. You may not be able to say you love yourself right now, but it's pretty hard to [00:37:55] say that you don't like anything about yourself, right?
[00:37:57] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Because you just named 15 things. So they're like, [00:38:00] Hmm. So it's sort of like you're at the same time of collecting evidence to try to go to the [00:38:05] direction of believing what you wanna believe. You may not be there yet, but at the same time you're sort of just [00:38:10] dismantling this other thing that you've worked on for so long that actually may not be true.[00:38:15]
[00:38:15] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So
[00:38:16] Dr. Taz: it, I love that. Well, it sounds. So hopeful [00:38:20] for so many.
[00:38:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:38:21] Dr. Taz: That, you know, and again, I think what it does, it undoes this [00:38:25] whole like affirmations. Yes. The said map, you know, that whole culture, toxic [00:38:30] positivity. Yes. I know you probably have an issue with toxic positivity.
[00:38:33] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I do. I, I honestly, I [00:38:35] understand it and I have a lot of empathy for it.
[00:38:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: 'cause I think a lot of times. When you are [00:38:40] acting on toxic positivity, whether it's talking to yourself or others, or your [00:38:45] friends or loved ones are talking to you, I truly believe 90% of the time it comes [00:38:50] from good intention. The intention is just that we as humans are [00:38:55] so uncomfortable. By negative emotion.
[00:38:59] Dr. Deepika Chopra: We don't [00:39:00] want someone to feel bad. We don't wanna be around for it. 'cause what that might bring up for [00:39:05] ourselves, right? But we also just don't know what to do with it. And so we sort of, from good [00:39:10] intention, we wanna help and fix. Whatever's going on, and I'll say nine times [00:39:15] out of 10, when someone comes to you with something that they're really struggling with, they're not [00:39:20] actually looking for a solution.
[00:39:21] Dr. Deepika Chopra: They're looking to be heard.
[00:39:22] Dr. Taz: Mm,
[00:39:23] Dr. Deepika Chopra: they're looking to be met. They're [00:39:25] looking to sort of have a safe space to just vent. They're looking for [00:39:30] safety,
[00:39:30] Dr. Taz: so toxic positivity. It doesn't allow for that.
[00:39:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: No,
[00:39:34] Dr. Taz: it doesn't [00:39:35] allow for vulnerability. No. Or trust
[00:39:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: or, no, it doesn't allow for intimacy.
[00:39:38] Dr. Taz: Intimacy
[00:39:39] Dr. Deepika Chopra: or [00:39:40] real connection.
[00:39:40] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And I think that to, the thing about toxic positivity is [00:39:45] that is what it, what bothers me is [00:39:50] it is actually the vilification. Of the human range of [00:39:55] emotions. Mm. And we as humans, were built to experience the full range of emotion, even the ones that [00:40:00] don't feel good,
[00:40:00] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:40:01] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Like we were meant to have anger, sadness, fear, stress, [00:40:05] worry, rage, sometimes mourning, grief.
[00:40:09] Dr. Deepika Chopra: All of these [00:40:10] things are normal human emotions. They're part of our human range of emotion and [00:40:15] toxic positivity kind of just says like, there's no space for that, that can exist [00:40:20] and you're sort of up against a wall because no human is able to experience [00:40:25] just the positive range of emotion. They may be able, the goal is to be able to [00:40:30] navigate through all the emotions,
[00:40:32] Dr. Taz: not
[00:40:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: not
[00:40:33] Dr. Taz: suppress exactly.
[00:40:33] Dr. Taz: It's just as bad as emotional [00:40:35] suppression
[00:40:35] Dr. Deepika Chopra: in
[00:40:35] Dr. Taz: a way.
[00:40:35] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Exactly.
[00:40:36] Dr. Taz: Interesting
[00:40:36] Dr. Deepika Chopra: entirely.
[00:40:38] Dr. Taz: Will you also talk, I think in the book, if [00:40:40] I'm correct, you talk about awe. Mm-hmm. The importance of awe, right? Yeah. Talk that
[00:40:44] Dr. Deepika Chopra: That's another great tool.
[00:40:44] Dr. Taz: [00:40:45] Yeah. Talk to us about that. I love these tools. They're amazing. So talk to us, talk to us about the role of [00:40:50] awe in creating the key, core pieces of, uh.[00:40:55]
[00:40:55] Dr. Taz: Optimism. Yeah. Right. Which are resilience and curiosity.
[00:40:58] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yes. [00:41:00] So awe actually works as sort of this antidote for anxiety. [00:41:05]
[00:41:05] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:41:05] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And, and depression. So the reason, and, and there was like [00:41:10] this study that I thought was so interesting and the way that they sort of came about [00:41:15] understanding that awe could be this tool was they were looking at astronauts [00:41:20] and.
[00:41:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You can imagine being an astronaut, no matter how much you train for it, is probably a pretty [00:41:25] stressful and anxious, anxiety producing type of profession. [00:41:30] You're in this rocket. Mm-hmm. Which seems quite small. [00:41:35] Um, you're going to space and no matter probably if you've been there before or [00:41:40] not, it's.
[00:41:41] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Exciting. Yeah. And it's something drew you to it, but it's also kind of [00:41:45] scary.
[00:41:45] Dr. Taz: Yeah. A
[00:41:45] Dr. Deepika Chopra: little and yeah, a little bit and claustrophobic even. And [00:41:50] all the things. And what they found was when these astronauts were up in [00:41:55] space, like something was protective, something was protecting that. It was like, can you [00:42:00] imagine anything more awesome or awe inducing than seeing space?
[00:42:04] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm-hmm. [00:42:05] Like I can't even fathom that. And so this idea of being in a state [00:42:10] of awe is being in a state where you. Are a [00:42:15] very small part of something much bigger. And so it's being truly [00:42:20] inspired and sort of taken aback emotionally and cognitively by [00:42:25] something, and at the same time feeling a very small part of something much [00:42:30] larger.
[00:42:30] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:42:30] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so when you think about that it, especially for someone going through more [00:42:35] depressive like symptoms, a lot of times that's the opposite. You, your feelings and [00:42:40] emotions and what you're struggling with is at the forefront. You're just thinking about that [00:42:45] and if you are able to step away a little bit and feel like you're part of something bigger and [00:42:50] that this you, the, you is very small, but you're part of something much bigger and you're [00:42:55] being inspired by it.
[00:42:56] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It could be a piece of beautiful music. It could transcend you. It could be. [00:43:00] Being in nature, looking at art, um, listening to someone you [00:43:05] really admire, speak, or whatever that is, or go into space. Yeah, putting [00:43:10] yourself in these intentional moments of awe are really protective [00:43:15] from an anxiety standpoint, from a depressive standpoint.
[00:43:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And it sort of, [00:43:20] again, helps you feel as part of something bigger, larger, [00:43:25] um, part of a larger community and you're not focusing on your. [00:43:30] Very pervasive.
[00:43:31] Dr. Taz: Like right here.
[00:43:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yes. Worry.
[00:43:33] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:43:33] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And for me, I [00:43:35] think what is interesting is you don't have to go to space or obviously be in the middle of the [00:43:40] redwoods or something like that to feel awe.
[00:43:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You can even, I, I like to think of it sometimes as [00:43:45] like. I use my Pinterest for it sometimes, or the save button [00:43:50] on, you know, social media when I see something like a beautiful image of [00:43:55] somewhere I've never been or something. I love the idea of Neuroaesthetics. Mm-hmm. I study that a lot. [00:44:00] But it could be a texture, it could be a color, it could be, um, some type of [00:44:05] interior.
[00:44:05] Dr. Deepika Chopra: You know that really like speaks to you. For me, music is my, mm-hmm.
[00:44:09] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:44:10]
[00:44:10] Dr. Deepika Chopra: My number one tool, it always has been since I was a kid. I'm super moved by music. [00:44:15] I'm one of those people that can get the goosebumps. Yeah. Immediately.
[00:44:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:44:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: But. All [00:44:20] these are things that can put you in a moment in awe. And so [00:44:25] collecting some of these things to intentionally, like, what are the things that put you in awe?
[00:44:28] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Start collecting that. [00:44:30] Write that down. Start adding them to your day.
[00:44:32] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:44:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Like when you wanna have a cup of coffee at four, [00:44:35] either with it or instead of it, like do some, some awe. [00:44:40] You know, like intentionally a, A tool. A A tool. I
[00:44:42] Dr. Taz: love
[00:44:43] Dr. Deepika Chopra: that. Yeah. Go microdose on some [00:44:45] Ah,
[00:44:45] Dr. Taz: you go microdose a that's, yeah. I wish you could bottle that,
right?
[00:44:47] Dr. Taz: I know. Here you go.
[00:44:48] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I know. We'll
[00:44:48] Dr. Taz: take that.
[00:44:49] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yeah.
[00:44:49] Dr. Taz: [00:44:50] Uh, what's the 12 second rule?
[00:44:52] Dr. Deepika Chopra: So this actually has come from a. [00:44:55] A lot of research I've seen, but mainly, um, a [00:45:00] neuroscientist who came on my podcast, um, Dr. Hanson, he came in [00:45:05] and taught me this idea of the 12 second rule. And it's amazing. It's about holding a [00:45:10] positive memory or image or idea in your brain for just 12 seconds.
[00:45:14] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:45:14] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:45:15] Like it's enough for your brain to actually really marinate in it, and then. [00:45:20] Wire itself to look for something else positive. So it's a practice that's simple. It's [00:45:25] 12 seconds. But the funny thing is you think about that and it's 12 seconds, but it's [00:45:30] so counter to what we automatically do as humans, we are so much more [00:45:35] likely to spend without intention.
[00:45:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: More than 12 seconds on something that didn't go [00:45:40] right.
[00:45:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:45:40] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Something that we want to do better at or something [00:45:45] really bad that happened and we very rarely take something like joy, [00:45:50] a feeling of joy or some sort of positive memory or mood. We, we often remember our [00:45:55] memories of. Things that didn't go right for us, or mistakes we made, [00:46:00] or accidents or things like that.
[00:46:01] Dr. Deepika Chopra: We, if you think back to your childhood, those [00:46:05] memories really stick out. It's the like small sort of happy, joyful memories that just [00:46:10] worked out that are gone.
[00:46:11] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:46:12] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And so your brain's like, I don't need to hold onto this 'cause I'm not doing [00:46:15] anything with it. But what we've learned is it's. Very powerful for this type of practice to [00:46:20] actually hold onto those things intentionally.
[00:46:21] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm. So the next time you feel a good [00:46:25] feeling or you have a flash of a memory that's positive, try to challenge yourself. Put a timer on for [00:46:30] 12 seconds.
[00:46:30] Dr. Taz: 12 seconds, and try
[00:46:31] Dr. Deepika Chopra: to like stay in it.
[00:46:32] Dr. Taz: Oh, I love these tools. All right, let's do one. Okay. [00:46:35] More. I love all of them.
[00:46:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Adult version of I Spy. [00:46:40] What in the world, what is, what's going on there?
[00:46:43] Dr. Deepika Chopra: This actually [00:46:45] came from my work as a grad student when I was in the psycho-oncology [00:46:50] program, and it worked so well for anxiety and. [00:46:55] Uh, although I don't have a diagnosable anxiety right. Condition.
[00:46:59] Dr. Taz: [00:47:00] Right.
[00:47:00] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I, and I think we all sort of veer towards these different almost [00:47:05] diagnoses because that's what diagnosis are.
[00:47:06] Dr. Deepika Chopra: There are normal emotions just sort of taken to another level that might be [00:47:10] pervasive. I'm definitely someone that can err on the side of anxiety and [00:47:15] that has gone up since I have had children.
[00:47:17] Dr. Taz: Mm,
[00:47:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: for sure. Mm-hmm. Um. [00:47:20] This works so well. Well, I think
[00:47:21] Dr. Taz: a lot of moms think
[00:47:22] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yes.
[00:47:22] Dr. Taz: Go through that
[00:47:23] Dr. Deepika Chopra: for sure.
[00:47:23] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Absolutely.
[00:47:24] Dr. Taz: Yeah,
[00:47:24] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:47:25] absolutely. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and it's actually something that has stuck around for [00:47:30] me. Mm-hmm. Through all of my, I mean, I just think that's the state that I'm sort of in. I have more work cut out [00:47:35] for myself now, but I. An anxious state worry has really like [00:47:40] seeped in, in a bigger way than it ever has since I've become a mom.
[00:47:44] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Um, and yeah, I think [00:47:45] that is common with a lot of mothers and parents in general. I think for my husband too, more so for [00:47:50] me, but, um, the adult I spy game is so great. So the basis of [00:47:55] it is that you, all of us have a limited attentional capacity. [00:48:00] I think we go around the world thinking we just have like an unlimited amount of like.
[00:48:04] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:48:05] Time and energy that our brain can focus on things. But actually it's a limited attentional capacity. [00:48:10] And that's important because when you're doing some of this work intentionally, you can [00:48:15] actually tell your brain in some scenarios when you're being intentional, what you want it to [00:48:20] focus on, and you can utilize enough of the attentional capacity that it actually [00:48:25] cannot focus on whatever the worry was or the loop or the rumination you were doing before.
[00:48:29] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:48:30] So where this came up was. Some of my patients pre-surgery and [00:48:35] right before they were going into surgery, they would obvi, they would have a lot of anticipatory anxiety [00:48:40] and like literally I'd be standing with some of them as they were being wheeled. And I would be like, okay, [00:48:45] let's play a game. I want you to look around the room and I want you to, [00:48:50] without any judgment, without telling a story, I want you to just name out loud [00:48:55] everything that you see.
[00:48:56] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Do it for 30 seconds. Mm-hmm. And so it might just be like. I see a green [00:49:00] plant, I see white curtains, I see a book. And then your [00:49:05] brain might go like, I wonder what that book is. That book reminds me. And then you stop yourself and you're like, wait, I'm not telling a [00:49:10] story.
[00:49:10] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:49:10] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Move on. Um, you know, I see a cup, [00:49:15] I see a, an orange vase, and you keep [00:49:20] going on.
[00:49:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And what we know about the brain is if you see something and then you label it. In [00:49:25] your brain, and then you label it out loud. It's utilizing enough attentional capacity [00:49:30] where you have put a break or a pause in what you were ruminating about before. Yeah. So it's like a [00:49:35] healthy distraction game.
[00:49:36] Dr. Taz: Got
[00:49:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: it.
[00:49:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And when you're done with it. You [00:49:40] might go back to your, your worries, but it's sort of taken the potency out [00:49:45] and it acts as like a reset button. So I use that a lot for some [00:49:50] clients that are, you know, prone to panic.
[00:49:52] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:49:53] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Um, just anxiety and [00:49:55] worry in general or ruminating over something like Loop. Mm-hmm.
[00:49:58] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And we all sort of do that at times. [00:50:00] Right. So it's a really,
[00:50:00] Dr. Taz: yeah.
[00:50:01] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's a, it's just a reset. It's a really fun, A
[00:50:04] Dr. Taz: [00:50:05] quick way
[00:50:05] Dr. Deepika Chopra: to
[00:50:05] Dr. Taz: resay
[00:50:05] Dr. Deepika Chopra: quick, simple, healthy distraction technique.
[00:50:08] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh, I love all [00:50:10] these tools and I have so much more I wanna ask you about what can we expect in your book, [00:50:15] the Power of Real Optimism.
[00:50:16] Dr. Taz: Talk to us about that.
[00:50:18] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Everything that we just talked about in more, [00:50:20]
[00:50:20] Dr. Taz: I want
[00:50:20] Dr. Deepika Chopra: it Real optimism. The reason I wrote this book is. [00:50:25] Actually not because I'm the most optimistic person. I actually wrote [00:50:30] this book because I'm not, so, I am known as the optimism doctor, but I'm [00:50:35] very transparent to share. I'm not the most naturally optimistic person, and probably [00:50:40] in my like small microcosm of family, I probably rate the lowest,
[00:50:44] Dr. Taz: really?
[00:50:44] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm-hmm. [00:50:45] On optimism, but. I am just like everybody else in the trenches using the [00:50:50] tools and science. I love science and my sort of passion is taking [00:50:55] science and putting that into everyday practical, actionable [00:51:00] tools that make sense for real humans living a real life. And so [00:51:05] it is packed with those type of things that are science-based and the tools.
[00:51:09] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:51:10] Um, and I think that the important piece that. With this book is, [00:51:15] it's really to send out the message that no one is immune to struggle. [00:51:20] This book is not about manifesting a life of 24 7 bliss,
[00:51:24] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:51:24] Dr. Deepika Chopra: [00:51:25] It's actually about meeting you where you seriously are at in the moment, and it's [00:51:30] real optimism techniques for real people living real lives today.
[00:51:34] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mm-hmm. [00:51:35] With everything in between it, and especially when times are hard, what do you hope this book will [00:51:40] do? I hope that this book will, uh, you know, my, my big thing [00:51:45] when I work with clients is I, what I've always been passionate about is I think after every session [00:51:50] it kind of became an obsession for me that I wanted after every session for someone to [00:51:55] have an aha moment in their life, in their daily life or something that [00:52:00] they like, something that could connect, something they learned in the science, that they could be like, whoa.[00:52:05]
[00:52:05] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Yes, I can illustrate that in my mind. And I wanted them to walk away with a [00:52:10] tool every session that they could then do that following week without [00:52:15] having to do anything with me. So it's self-mastery, and then they could collect both of those things every [00:52:20] week. And that's always what I've been passionate about.
[00:52:22] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And that's what I hope from this book is that you [00:52:25] walk away with not just one or two, but. Many, many [00:52:30] tools that you can revisit and continuously keep getting more tools from, [00:52:35] no matter what point you are in your life, what season you're in, whether it's a tough one or [00:52:40] you know, you're smooth sailing for now.
[00:52:42] Dr. Deepika Chopra: 'cause everything is seasons and everything's temporary [00:52:45] and I, I hope that by the end of the book everybody is able to sort of. [00:52:50] Relax their shoulders down and say like, wow, I'm actually more optimistic [00:52:55] than I thought I was.
[00:52:55] Dr. Taz: Oh, I love
[00:52:56] Dr. Deepika Chopra: that. All right, final question for today. A, [00:53:00] I want the book, the B. Uh, what makes you whole?
[00:53:03] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Ooh, what makes me [00:53:05] whole? You know, I think for me. An answer to this [00:53:10] would've been different in different sort of seasons in my life, but right now, I [00:53:15] think what truly makes me feel whole is when I feel connected to my sense of [00:53:20] purpose, and not just in an existential level, but like. [00:53:25] I like to really practice seasonally the [00:53:30] sort of exercise of like what my purpose is right now and allowing myself for that to [00:53:35] change.
[00:53:35] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And as long as I'm living a life, which by the way does not have to mean that [00:53:40] every single thing you do, like what you do for a living, what you're paid for, sometimes we don't have control [00:53:45] over those things and we have obligations and we have, you know, we have mouths to [00:53:50] feed and whatever that is, that might not translate, but.
[00:53:53] Dr. Deepika Chopra: If everything in [00:53:55] some way is related back to sort of what my purpose is right now, and I [00:54:00] know what my purpose is, then wait, what's your purpose? So it's, it's [00:54:05] interesting. I literally just did, I, I do, I take clients through this practice called [00:54:10] Ikigai.
[00:54:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Uh,
[00:54:11] Dr. Deepika Chopra: it's a Japanese Okinawa and it's in the book, um, if you [00:54:15] wanna.
[00:54:15] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Know how to do it, but it is an ancient Okinawa practice that helps you [00:54:20] understand what you're, why you get outta bed every day.
[00:54:22] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:54:22] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And there's tons of research to show why [00:54:25] that's important to live an optimal life is to know that. The interesting thing that just I saw the other [00:54:30] day research wise was we know that about like.
[00:54:32] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Adults, but there was this study done that it's [00:54:35] equally, if not more important for teens to understand what their purpose is.
[00:54:38] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:54:39] Dr. Deepika Chopra: And when is the [00:54:40] last time we talked to our teens about what their purpose was? Right. Right. But it's so protective from [00:54:45] a proactive mental health standpoint to understand what your purpose is.
[00:54:48] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:54:48] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Mine right now is to [00:54:50] inspire.
[00:54:50] Dr. Taz: To inspire. Yeah. Well,
[00:54:51] Dr. Deepika Chopra: I
[00:54:52] Dr. Taz: feel inspired today. So your purpose is, is [00:54:55] accomplished here. It's, it's in action, for sure. No, I feel truly inspired by this. I think [00:55:00] it's so hopeful, I think at a micro level for people that are, you know, [00:55:05] stuck. Yeah, right. It's. Practical little tools Yes.
[00:55:08] Dr. Taz: To help move them forward [00:55:10] at a macro level, our hospitals
[00:55:12] Dr. Deepika Chopra: mm-hmm.
[00:55:13] Dr. Taz: Our exam rooms. Yes. [00:55:15] You know, even our own clinics, you know, like where can we put some of [00:55:20] this into place when people are finding themselves in situations or positions that are. [00:55:25] Fearful. Yep. Anxiety provoking, or may move them towards a more [00:55:30] negative space.
[00:55:30] Dr. Taz: So I think there's so much opportunity for this. I can't wait to see how everybody [00:55:35] resonates with it. I can't wait for you to read it once it's at out, it's,
[00:55:36] Dr. Deepika Chopra: yeah, it's
[00:55:36] Dr. Taz: out on March
[00:55:37] Dr. Deepika Chopra: 10th.
[00:55:38] Dr. Taz: March 10th, okay. Yeah. Everywhere books [00:55:40] are sold.
[00:55:40] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Everywhere books are sold.
[00:55:41] Dr. Taz: Okay. And it's available for pre-order.
[00:55:43] Dr. Deepika Chopra: It's available for pre-order now, and it's [00:55:45] available.
[00:55:46] Dr. Deepika Chopra: March 10th.
[00:55:47] Dr. Taz: All right. Real optimism, the power of real [00:55:50] optimism. Lots of great practical tools. I think all of us could be [00:55:55] better and learn more by practicing some of these. So I hope you guys enjoy this episode and [00:56:00] that you are going to practice optimism moving forward, and we'll share this [00:56:05] episode with the people that you love.
[00:56:06] Dr. Taz: I'll see you next time.
[00:56:07] Dr. Deepika Chopra: Before you go, take a second to reflect [00:56:10] on what stood out for you today. Then if you can leave a quick review [00:56:15] wherever you're listening, it really helps other people discover Whole Plus and start their own [00:56:20] healing journey. And don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Dr.
[00:56:23] Dr. Taz: Taz md. I [00:56:25] love hearing how these episodes are supporting you.