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The official podcast dedicated to all things Meebits. Join us as we interview collectors, creators, and community members, diving deep into the stories, innovations, and culture surrounding the Meebits collection.
Hey, Matt. Hey, John. How are you? Very, very excited to have you here on the MeVITS podcast today. It's been long time coming, and it is an honor, a privilege, a pleasure to speak to you today about our little voxels, bundles of love, the Meebits.
Sergio:How are you guys?
John:Good. Thanks for having us.
Matt:Yeah. Thank you.
Sergio:Yeah. No. We're like I said, you know, super excited. I think it's gonna come across through this this time. You know, a few of us really love the, and we wanna be able to craft the story correctly and and share with the world what, you know, you guys put, detail wise, all the love and the time that you put into the collection.
Sergio:So, yeah, we'd love to actually start, you know, jump right into it. Larva Labs, obviously, very well known across not just the digital art world, the tokenized world, but also the traditional art world now. Can you give us a little background as to how you guys started in this world, what your backgrounds were before, you know, what everybody knows you about, which is the punks?
Matt:Yeah. Sure. So me and John met in the college in the, at University of Toronto in computer science a while ago now, twenty five years ago more even. And, had, like, you know, worked in got the same job after that and separate jobs or whatever, but I always stayed in touch and always, like, started you know, we're working on things together and kind of, like, interested in sort of creative technology projects. Didn't really know what to call it at the time.
Matt:And, so that was the web early on. We were sort of, you know, at the right time for the web. And then mobile came along, and we were very early on that. We worked on a phone called the Sidekick, which was popular over here with the teens mostly, but actually was like a prototype, pro like, sort of a prototype for the the smartphone. Had everything in it at an App Store and network connectivity and everything.
Matt:And, actually, a part of that phone became Android. So we were early working on Android as well. So lots of creative projects, across, like, sort of what, you know, new technologies, technologies mainly. When something was a new platform or a new thing and it hadn't quite been figured out yet, that's sort of what we ended up specializing in, and we're attracted to what seemed interesting to us. So so the blockchain sort of fit into that category too, especially if you're in, which was a, you know, a developer platform that we hadn't really, you know, we felt like there was more potential there than what had been done, you know, especially at the time of the punks twenty seventeen.
Matt:So, so that's sort of, like, what the background of what we bring to it. Like, Rook made everything. Games, apps, like, social apps. Like, we tried to do I mean, I think we've done one of kind of every category of of of something in the past. Yeah.
Sergio:You mentioned something that really stood out, which is early. You guys were early to tech prior to to blockchain, but also within the blockchain space. You know, most people see you as artists because of the ponds and they have the museums and obviously the cliffs. But tell me a little bit more about, like, being early categories and maybe how that has been reflected into, like, your three NFT projects.
John:Yeah. And I I think when Matt and I kinda look back over, you know, our career to date, we realized that it's like we're not early. Like, we're not, like, you know, metallic early where we're where we're in there, like, right when it's being created from scratch. But it feels like where we're at our best is when there's some new technology that's out there, but it's still kinda esoteric, and it's sort it hasn't it's not you know, it's just ready now to, like, cross over into regular user space. You know?
John:So, mobile was like that where it's like, oh, these phones have a lot of capabilities now that, you know, this is before the iPhone and Android and everything. And it's like, what kind of apps can you write for this? What kind of things would be fun to have running in your pocket? And that was a really fun space to work in where that was all undefined. You know?
John:And, and then I think similarly, you know, when we started thinking about collectibles and everything, and then, you know, we realized that, yeah, oh, this Ethereum is is pretty powerful. It can do a lot of things more than just, you know, what everyone's using for at the time, which was just tokens, basically. You know? And, and so, that seems to be kinda where we're at our best, you know, right right when something's ready to cross over into, user land but hasn't hasn't done so yet.
Sergio:Yeah. And then you obviously, you know, crushed it, with punks even though, you know, most people think of price performance of NFTs. Really, you open up the doors for creativity and imagination and pretty much a lot of the NFT projects that came after that, derived a lot of inspiration from from punks themselves, from, you know, 10,000 tokens to a lot of the trades. And then you do the same with with Cliffs that really opened up the door for generative art on chain, and, obviously, every single platform out there today credits you guys with, you know, helping them kinda, like, think of that. I wanna move to the.
Sergio:Right? So points were like art. You mentioned in the past, all interviews, you know, kinda like trading stickers, and then glyphs, obviously, there's, you know, code art. How would you describe your idea for Meebits before they were made? Like, how how did that kinda, like, creative process come about?
Matt:Well, we had done, we had made a game, a voxel game, called Road Trip, which was like a, sort of a driving game, an endless sort of driving game of the that was of the fashion at that time. And, really liked working with voxels and liked the game engine stuff. And, there was generative aspects to that game as well. And so when we were thinking about, like, you know, what was next, like, what felt like the next thing. So, like, fonts were, you know, inspired by what we had seen with the way people interacted with, persona and their profile picture and how they represented themselves that way and intersected that with, like, sort of ownership.
Matt:Autoglyphs was like a, you know, a way to addition generative art that felt right, especially on chain. And so then we're like, well but neither of these things really are applicable to, like, a game universe or a three-dimensional universe. Like, we'd you know? So we felt like that was the sort of the next natural step, and voxels was, like, comfortable for us. We like the aesthetics of it, but, also, it was, like, sort of practical for us to work in that format as well.
Matt:So it felt like, oh, we can make, like, real three-dimensional characters now. It can be, like, you know, another dimension of the generator. We can kinda do all these things we now we because, you know, part of this thing is once it's done once it's done, it's done on the blockchain. You know, we're not up out there updating the prompts, obviously, but we were like, oh, it would have been fun to do that. So, like, a lot of those would have been fun to do things that went into Meebits.
Sergio:That's amazing. Yeah. I think in the past, you mentioned that Meebits were kind of like the application of everything that you learned through the process of creating punks and glitz and, obviously, your previous experience plus adding a lot of new stuff, on top of that. How how long from like, when did you start ideating the from kinda like your the voxel game you guys have worked on to, hey. Let's turn this into a digital collectible.
John:Yeah. It was sort of, percolating for a while, I think. I'm trying to think when exactly we started. You know, we definitely have kind of prototype stuff that goes back to, you know, 2018, '20 '19. I feel like it was in late twenty twenty maybe that we started to really kind of, you know, kind of firm up some ideas and and get things going.
John:And and they yeah. Working on the code for the generator because, obviously, with punks, it's very easy just to, like, overlay layers. You know? You just have the face layer, and then you add, like, a hat or whatever. You know?
John:It it's just layers on top of layers. But with Meeba, it's it's you now you're compositing three-dimensional things together, and you have to, you know, things have to kinda fit. And maybe if one if one thing's going on, then that means you have to kinda delete some voxels elsewhere just to to you know, so, like, hair doesn't, like, come, like, through the side of a sweatshirt hoodie or something like that. You know, like, that kind of stuff. There's a bunch of of rules of that that we were working on.
John:So that was all kind of coming together, the putting together all that code and kinda getting things going even though we didn't really have it. You know, we didn't have, like, a good kinda collection yet or anything, but but the tools and tech were coming together.
Sergio:And so this voxels did and one of the questions from the community, was, you know, how did the voxel, kind of, like, models get created? Was it is like, do you guys, you know, kind of make them, I guess, by hand through the computer, or was it all, like, generated through algos? I think, you know, a lot of us that don't have a background on digital sculpting or or three d, don't really understand how these things are made. And and to your point, right, punks, you can think of it. It's like, okay.
Sergio:Well, there's layers of two d images that you get put on top of each other. But you look at me, it's and it's like this whole new dimension, literally. So, yeah, can you tell me more about that process?
John:Yeah. The, so each individual trait you know, we sorta had, like, a generic kind of body, you know, that that, that and then each trait was kinda done individually for that body in in, like, a Voxel editor. Like, Magic of Voxel is is the one we used. And, and and then that kinda gets ex then then we sort of extract that, and that just becomes its own little Voxel model. And then when we're actually putting them together to make the Meebits, there's this whole and it it it's not doesn't really happen in, like, a three d programming.
John:It's just our own software is just putting together all those voxels and applying all these rules. And and so then you basically get the output is this data that is just like all the voxel data. Like, you know, at each x y z coordinate, is there a voxel? And if so, what color? You know?
John:And and then once that's done, then that can get turned back into, like, a three d model. And we have a few different formats that we, you know, that we sort of export into, including we even had, like, I think shortly after the Meebits launch, we had the thing where when we went back to pixels, you know, where it's like, here's like an isometric. Like, it looks like a kind of a nineties isometric game version of, of the, of the voxels. So, yeah, we had but but, yeah, in terms of we call it the compositor, the thing that composites all the, all the attributes together and applies all the rules. So that's, like, the basic thing.
John:There in terms of how we color things, right, like, there there's more to it. You know? How do we apply, like like, different colors and patterns to those things? That then that's that's another layer of the, compositor that that's in there.
Sergio:Yeah. I oh, sorry, man.
John:I was
Matt:gonna say and I think if I remember correctly, there's, like so in the punks, it's, like, strictly additive. Like, you add layers on top and you have rules. But the, compositor is, like, more complicated. It has, like, you can put in special special voxels that aren't rendered, but they're, like, were subtractive. So you could be like, well, this hair, actually, I need to remove I wanna remove this from like, I'm gonna hide the ears or something like that, or I wanted, like, have glasses that hide some of the hair.
Matt:So it's almost like a little, like, sculpt each asset is a little bit of a program almost. You know? Sometimes with color, sometimes with, like, red boxes, they affect in the model and so on.
Sergio:Really sounds like building a structure, like sculpting. You know, the way you describe it with the different coordinates and the colors and, you know, if then and stuff like that. It's it it it's very, very, very technically complicated, and they just look so damn cute. So I I love the outputs as you guys know. I counted a 19 different trait variations, not counting the seven different types, you know, the seven different bases.
Sergio:Guys, how did you even come up with so many? Like everything from different jacket types and different hairstyles and like really just very unique things. Like, the jean jacket has, you know, the cuffs rolled back like most women wearing out in New York. Excuse me. 19.
Sergio:Let's say half full circle color is still 50 traits. Like, what was that creative process like?
John:Yeah. It was you know, I feel like with CryptoPunks, it was much more, you know, because that was always that was done at a time when we didn't know how it was gonna be received. You know? We're just making this thing very much as an experiment. But with MeBits, we sort of knew that there's an audience there who's gonna care about all this.
John:So, I feel like we took many more we we just made a lot more assets, and we filtered a lot more. You know, there's a lot that didn't make it. There was a lot more editing variation, you know, that, like, way more code was written to, like, review assets. You know, we you know, you could specify an asset and it would make, like, a few hundred EBITS that had to have that asset. So then you could see, okay.
John:How's it gonna work with all the other traits and everything? And so yeah. And then in terms of, like, the I the ideas that, you know, we were like, at the core of Meebits was was this idea of, like, streetwear, you know, and we always love like, we know we're riding the New York subway and everything. It's just fun to see people who wear, like, cool streetwear and everything. Even though, like, we don't wear cool streetwear.
John:You know? Like like, I I don't I know I'm just not the personality type. I think Matt's the same. I got where we're, like, we're not, like, walking around trying to show off with our clothes. You know?
John:But that doesn't mean that we don't love it when someone else is. You know what I mean? Like, we appreciate it from afar. And, so and especially because this was during the pandemic that, you know, the work was happening. It was just all, like, Instagram and just photos in the web of, like, streetwear because it's like, that way, I'd love to just go outside and, like, just get some inspiration, but can't do that really.
John:You know? Like, it's not easy to do that. So hardly anyone's out there. No one's dressing up. You know?
John:It's the pandemic. So, yeah, it was all it was really about just, like like, just going through photo after photo of, of, like, cool streetwear and then trying to distill that down into these, like, box of assets. It was really fun process.
Sergio:Now before we jump into kinda, like, the bulk of the trade discussion, which I'm really excited to just, you know, ask you guys about, in your process, I know because you've shared in the past, Meebits were supposed to be just mostly picks or just picks, as the base character. Can you tell me a little bit more about why that was and when that was changed and kinda like, what would let got left behind from that kinda like original idea?
Matt:Yeah. Yeah. It was originally a % pigs project, and then the name was Snouts. And, and we were like
John:Snouts with
Matt:a z. With a z, which is, like it was fun because it was, like, it was funny because the name came easily. It was, like, fun. We were dressing up these pigs. It was cool.
Matt:And, it was like, yeah. Cool. And then I feel like we maybe we, like, showed it to somebody and we're, like, getting some feedback, and we're, like, yeah. It's all pigs. And they're, like, oh, it's all pigs?
Sergio:And we're,
John:like Yeah.
Matt:You know, like, sort of got that. We suddenly saw it for, like, for, you know, fresh perspective. We're, like, oh, maybe not everybody wants to be a pig here, if this is supposed to be, you know, your persona in the three d world. So maybe we can make this all pig. You know?
John:Yeah. Exact I think I think the original feeling was we wanted something kind of iconic and immediately recognizable. You know? Yeah. And so it's like, oh, it you know, by making it these pigs, which were cute, and we like the pig, it's like it's just very, you know, immediately recognizable.
John:It's, you know, a little bit like, you see it with, like, you know, kind of pop artists like Cause, you know, where where they have, like, an animal, like, oh, it's a bear or it's whatever. You know? There's a bump there's a bunch of artists like that where they kinda have, like, this one model that they then riff on. You know? So that was it's like, oh, so this could be our, version of that.
John:But then, yeah, it was just like, wait. You know, to have a whole set of these things and, you know, so then we were you know, we had kind of the human version, and it's like, yeah. That looks pretty nice. You know? And, like, there's lots of things you can do with that.
John:It's like, it'd be really hard to leave the human out. And then I think as soon as we made an I think the next one we made was the elephant. Yeah. And then once it was like, okay. We got human, pig, elephant.
John:It's like, alright. Like, I like, seeing the vision now here where it's like, now we can add more rare types, and and it's just gonna just be such a more, like, wide ranging, interesting, you know, set. But that said, I feel like you can see the DNA of Snouts. Well, obviously, that's what we call, like, the brand of all the pig stuff. Like, you're wearing a Snout sweatshirt right now, which looks I must add.
John:And, so I feel like the pigs are almost, like, the most developed where they have almost, like, their own culture within me bits. You know? Like, they're almost like a like a subculture within me bits. And, I think you also notice that every once in a while, a non pig can wear, like, a snouts thing, but that's much more rare. You know?
John:Like, if you kinda just search for on the site for, like, snouts, clothes, you'll see that just now and again, there's, like, a human. I think there's, like, one, visitor who wears a snouts thing, and, you know, it's like those are like we kinda made that rare. It was like, oh, yeah. There's a few you know, it's kind of like a a pig pride thing to wear snouts, but there's other people who are into it. You know?
John:Like, it's cool. Yeah. So, anyway, yeah, like, yeah. So you you can just see how that's kind of, developed. But that said, yeah, we have no regrets.
John:Like, yeah, we like that it's much more broad and everything. I think we had other ones. We had a cow, you know, like, and it was, like, okay, but just didn't quite
Matt:Yeah. Briefly, I think it was gonna be the attack from the animals, and then we couldn't quite get enough animals looking. Right?
John:Definitely. Yeah.
Matt:And so then it became, like, a robot and things like that. So but, yeah, the idea yeah. Go ahead.
John:I think the robot was next. Once we like, after the cow and everything, and then it's like, what about and then when soon as we did the once again, as soon as we did the robot, it's like, alright. You know? And then and then, of course, like, the visitor, it's like, well, the CryptoPunk alien is so well known, and it's like, I don't wanna just say alien, but it's like but we kinda want that vibe, you know, of, like, the weird one. You know?
John:So yeah.
Sergio:I love the arms and the visitor. Just slightly longer than the character. Usually, like, basketball for the San Antonio Spurs or something.
John:Yeah. Yeah. And it's a yeah. Yeah. A little bit of inspiration, like, like, do you know the movie, Galaxy Quest where, like, the, like, the the good guy aliens, they kinda walk with their arms, like, held down.
John:You know? And they're not nest they're not longer, but they just the way they hold them down is like you could kind of imagine the visitor walking like that with its arms sort of, like, straight down. Yeah.
Sergio:So since we're on the types, tell me a little more about the dissected. Was that, like, the last one that was created? And what's, it's funny because you see it on the on the image and the two d image, and you can see the clear outline. But if you pull up the model, actually, it's just there's nothing around a lot of, like, the feet. It's just like the bone.
Sergio:So, yeah, we'd love to hear more about, you know, dissected being, I guess, the rarest base type, but then we can talk about the rarest, maybe after this.
Matt:Yeah. I think the story behind the dissected was we originally gonna have a skeleton inside all of them, or, like, you know, know, some organs and things like that. So if you were to, like, take the model and take away the outer layer, you'd see that in there. And that became kind of impossible due to a couple of things. Like, there was a couple of situations that we just couldn't make it work.
Matt:So, so that was originally just gonna be, like I guess we were gonna originally have one without the scan too. But, so now it just became a special type was, was the dissected with what was gonna be the innards of everybody. But Yeah. And
John:and I think once again, inspired a bit by the, some of the pop artists who who do that as well. Like, you can find, like, a cause that's a little bit like that too where it sort of shows the guts or the innards. And so and I always really like that. And so it was fun to do our own version. And, yeah, like, the idea is in the in the model is that that is, like, kind of what's supposed to be like a clear plastic sort of glass layer.
John:So it still has the shape of, like, a regular human, leave it, but then that's like a see through layer. Yeah. It'd be really fun to get, like, a a physically made dissect it going with all with all that going on. But yeah. And, it took a few that was a hard one to do.
John:It was the last one that we did, and there was many revisions, to try to make that sort of look look right. And, yeah, looking at, like, pictures of anatomy and trying to, like so we can't get all the gut guts in here, but I want to show let's get it so that you can kinda recognize the various Mhmm. You can see the digestive system and stuff like that. Yeah.
Sergio:Yeah. I got the opportunity to, play with the model of, like, the fully naked dissected, for one of the season memes, art cards that we did a couple years ago. And, I was just blown away by the the detail of, like, the again, I'm not a doctor. I don't know organs, but I've seen enough, you know, like, body, like, class back in high school, and I'm like, oh, this looks pretty, like, detailed. Yeah.
Sergio:It
John:was fun to do that one. Yeah. And but but, yeah, a lot of revisions and, yeah.
Sergio:And then the glitch pick. I remember when the glitch pick came through the minter. It was like, is this a fluke? Is this intended? Is this the rarest?
Sergio:Is it just like Yes. What's going on?
John:Like And those are the questions we wanted. It's it was a friend of ours, who's a, he's a, punk collector, and but we've known him for years. You know, he just when we launched because of punks, he got into it. And, it was his it was his idea just in general. I I don't think, you know, we we he just mentioned it'd be it'd be cool to have, like, a rare one, but there's no indication that it's a rare one.
John:You know? It's not in the traits. You know? It's just there's no explanation. It's almost like a glitch.
John:You know? Like, you don't know if it's if it's intended or not. You know? And and so that idea stuck where it's like, oh, yeah. Let's just make one that's just got, like, a problem with it kind of.
John:You know? Like and, yeah. That's a there's a real deep reference there where my my uncle was in a rock band in Canada, and their debut album the album cover was like a painting of a guy who had, like, three eyes and two noses and, and, like, a wide mouth and everything, and kind of a square, like, almost looks like a me bit. Someone can maybe dig that up at some point, but it's a so that was, like, a little that was sort of a reference there, but, or at least an inspiration.
Sergio:That's amazing. A lot of, like, you guys in the collection, like, the stuff that you like, streetwear, you know, family history, the rock rock band, UNCLE, and then, I guess, friendship too. Right? If your friend inspire or ask for this particular trait, that's that's awesome. And, yeah, obviously, a lot of people don't have never seen the glitch pick because, you know, it traded once in the secondary market, and then it got bolted away.
Sergio:And and and I feel like there's a lot of Meebit trades that actually have never been seen by your average, collector, NFT participant, whatever you wanna call it because, you know, people just got them and they put them away. And and, you know, we did we ran some numbers, actually. I I don't know what you guys think of this, but 40% of all Meebits have never been bought or sold in secondary. That's 9,002 hundred tokens if you take away the tokens that are currently being held by by Yuga Labs following their acquisition. So a lot of the traits, especially, like, the really cool unique traits, where you guys really put the larva DNA into the collection just, you know, never seen the light of the day.
Sergio:So I wanna do that today. I wanna dig a little bit more into those. You know, obviously, there's a lot of punk inspired traits, glyph inspired trades, and then I'm guessing a lot of, like, media only trades that as, like, heroes have this conversation. It strikes me as not just like, hey. You know, everybody does three d glasses.
Sergio:We should do three d glasses even though you were the first ones to do three d glasses on NFTs, but more so like, hey. I like this, and we're like, let's put it into this new world of of. So why don't we start with the one that I think is probably the most misunderstood because there's no real way to sort for it, which is the tattoos. There are so many tattoos. There are most one on ones, you've mentioned before, but it's like the autoglyph algo that you guys relied on to make it.
Sergio:Walk me a little bit through just, you know, the idea, the execution, and if there's any meaning behind that that we haven't been able to to kind of, like, find.
John:Yeah, Matt. I think when we were talking about this, yeah, the idea was that it was based on the kind of the autoglyph algorithm in terms of how we made them. And the idea was that we thought it'd be kinda cool to have a little bit of generative art inside the collection. So which I think was half cool and half a cause of frustration because you're right. It's not really, like, a searchable trait now because every one of them is basically unique.
John:You know what I mean? There's maybe I'm sure there might maybe there's one or two, maybe two have the same tattoos or at least they might look the same. But, it's, yeah, they are basically unique or at least there's no intention for them to to not be. And, and then we just thought maybe people would just find patterns that they liked or, because because each kind of it's it's sort of, it's made up of these symbols, and each symbol refers to, like, a little pattern across, like, a ring of the arm, and then it builds those up. So, so you can kind of find the sort of thing you're interested in, or you can find really minimalist ones, really complicated ones.
John:But, yeah, they kinda resemble, like, tiny little autoglyphs, on the Meebbit arms. You know?
Matt:Yeah. And we didn't quite realize that it was gonna kind of break the trade system a little bit, you know, like, because it gave us a bunch of unique stuff underneath a like, I wanna I wanna meet it with a tattoo. Okay. Cool. You could do that.
Matt:But then it's suddenly, like, all these options, and it seems like you know? So it it became a bit of, like, a software challenge to show those properly and so on. Oh, Oh, you know, and you know when we were, like, looking over everything again, we at least I had kinda forgotten that you could have tattoos on only one arm as well. Like, it can be it doesn't have to be a this, on both, which was cool. I forgot that that was the case.
John:Yeah. Yeah. The single sleeve versus the double. You know?
Sergio:There's some insane tattoo designs that came out of that, you know, generator. Was it a particular glyph that you guys used as a model? Was it, like, the glyph algo itself? Was it a glyph in inspire algo? What what's, kinda like what drove
John:Sort of a glyph inspired algo, where it's, it's kinda doing, like, the the algorithm uses something called, like, modular field, mathematics. And that's kinda how the tattoos are generated too using this sort of modular field, thing and, but with a very small field because it's just like there's not very many pixels available. So it's, yeah, that was the idea that that it's just it's kinda linked to glyphs. It's not exactly the same as this is inspired by, you know, related to, and, and then, like I said, like, that like, a little opportunity to have some a little piece of generative art in, you know, in the collection. So it's kind of and it's a little bit of a marriage of our previous two projects in that way.
Matt:Yeah. And that felt like a a cool sort of next level for the generator the generator as generators. You know? Like, there's Yeah. You know?
Matt:Which we had not done, in punks for sure.
Sergio:And so talking about generative traits, obviously, the camel trait has been discussed before too. Generative, no two share the exact same pattern either in the regular camo or the blue camo, which is quite a feat as well, I would say, because there's a lot of Meebits with either, you know, the T shirt or the over, shirt or the pants. Tell me also a little about about that algo. You know, where did it come from? Kinda, like, what inspired it, and how did you guys pull it off?
John:Yeah. Each of the, the patterns you know, some are just regular patterns. Like, some some patterns just look like kinda plaid and that kind of stuff. But things like camo, yeah, we generated those as well. Like, that one uses an algorithm called, Voronoi tessellation, you know, which whenever it's, you know, it's a complicated name for a relatively simple algorithm, but that just kinda generates you a camel looking pattern.
John:And we actually generate them as, like, solid three d blocks, that are about the size of an EBIT, and then you and then you just sort of apply it. So then just for every if you're doing, like, a sweatshirt, for example, and you're doing it in camo, it's like every voxel of the sweatshirt that you wanna color, you just pull the you pull it from that solid block of camo, and, that was generated. And then we we apply, like, a random offset to that big solid block so that it's everyone just gets a little different take of that camo pattern. Yeah. We just thought those little subtle things are nice that it's like yeah.
John:You know? Like, every camo shirt is just a little different camo pattern. You know? Like, like, that's we sort of have that ability to do it because we're generating these things. It would seem like a shame to just sort of replicate it, like, exactly, you know, just to add a little bit more variety and a little more personalization to each one.
Sergio:It really does continue sounding like everything you learned from Punks and Cliffs getting applied at the end level to this, you know, new collection. You mentioned the post trade, the argyle trade. We're having a discussion within the community whether those were also inspired by cliffs, some some patterns that kind of look cliffy. Those, you know, more match each other from, item to item, but it does kinda, like, allude to that. And and were they inspired, or is it just you guys really love that that kind of pattern and it just happened to come out again?
John:I think more of the latter. Yeah. Because those ones are more just, like, gridded patterns that are just repeated. You know? And so, yeah, you're right.
John:Those are just what we liked. Like, yeah, like, I think, like, some of the wilder ones are based on looking at, like, wilder streetwear patterns where it has, like it's made up of, like, really bold colors. And a lot of that's hard to represent because a lot of that stuff's very detailed, you know, patterns that go into, you know, some of whatever, like, the Gucci streetwear type stuff and everything. And, but we wanted to just, like, capture some of that some of that vibe in, like, a very, you know, very very few voxels to work with.
Sergio:Yeah. Those are.
Matt:I was just gonna say that was an early, the early prototypes of the Meebit, characters were a lot about figuring out what the right resolution was, like, the right number of voxels to do all this in, which we had a little bit of you know, we talked a little bit about that with Punxs, but that wasn't felt like an easier decision. So we had much more detailed prototype me bits and much less detailed, and you really are looking for that, like, Goldilocks middle resolution where you can represent things, but not too too realistically. There's, like, a sweet spot there where it feels cute and your brain fills in the the details for you. You know?
John:Yeah. Exactly right. Like, I think with pixel art and with voxel art, there's something that happens when you're at the right level of detail where the the you know, it's it's still kinda feels real. Like, your brain just sort of fit fills in what it actually looks like. All the all the details just sort of appear for you.
John:And, as even though it's made up of very few elements. You know? And if you go too detailed, then then the brain kind of demands all that detail to be present. And if it's if it's too small, like Matt said, then you just actually can't you can't get across what you're trying to get across. You know?
John:You can't you can't have all the different traits and subtle patterns and everything. So, yeah, there's there's a real sweet spot there that you have to find. And it was harder to, yeah, harder to find with me bits. Took a took a few tries.
Matt:Yeah. And I feel like a lot of the assets that didn't make the cut were, like, you know, we'd see we have a picture of something, be like, oh, that's so cool, like that shirt or those pants or whatever, and then we try to do it in boxes and, like, that doesn't look right. You know? Like, there's there's no way to represent it in the in the lower resolution that got across what it was. It just looked like something else.
Matt:So, but the ones where it does work, it's really awesome. Like, it's really fun. Like, I like I love, like, the ripped jeans, for example. Like, it looks like ripped jeans even though it's very few, you know, voxel. There's very few elements there, but it's unmistakable, that kind of thing.
Sergio:Yeah. You mentioned the the T shirts, and and, you know, I I never knew that it was based on streetwear. But a lot of things are starting to, like, you know, fall into place in my mouth. I've I've spent a lot of time looking at debit traits, especially preparing for for this conversation. Couple of things that stand out.
Sergio:So a couple of tribute t shirts, it sounds like. To me, obviously, Flamingo DAO, big big orders of Laravelabs from from their very beginning of of Flamingo because it's it's a more, recent organization of Laravelabs. They hold a lot of punks. They've been big part of, you know, promoting the culture. We have a Flamingo t shirt there.
Sergio:You have a punk t shirt, which is really the zombie face. You have an invader T shirt. Tell me more about, like, you know, why this three or four different T shirts, a logo T shirt that looks maybe like supreme. And, yeah, I I I you know, it's called logo T, and I never I'm not a stripper guy. I was in luck sometime when I wear, like, hoodies because I'm in crypto now.
John:But, yeah,
Sergio:like, what what was the conversation like? Are there other T shirts that didn't make the the cut that you would have liked to see?
John:Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. You're right that they're they're they're all little mini homages or most of them are. And, yeah, certainly supreme one, flamingo d a o for sure.
John:Even, like, there's that black T shirt that just has the lines on it, and that's that's sort of a reference to the, what's the what's the the post punk band? I might not think about it.
Matt:Oh, Joy Division.
John:Joy Division. Yeah. There's a classic Joy Division T shirt that is just like those, like, you know, like, kind of wavy lines. And, obviously, you can't really represent that at this resolution, but just, like, a subtle reference to that. And, Yeah.
John:I don't know. Yeah. We were just taking shots. I think, yeah, I think there was lots of, like, lots of T shirt designs and then just, you know, you just that process of filtering. And and, you know, and when it came to, like in the traits in general, you know, we didn't wanna just recreate all the CryptoPunk traits.
John:You know? Like, so there's no beanie, that kind of stuff. Certain ones just felt right, like three d glasses. You know? But, like, the VR helmet or VR glasses, that didn't you know?
John:So we're like, we don't wanna, yeah, we don't want it to just feel like this is just, like, CryptoPunks, but in three d, you know, just kind of a one to one thing. But we still wanna have some references and some, you know, like, some fun things there. So, like, the gap of punks T shirt, just the idea that this Me bid is into CryptoPunks. You know? And it's an odd clip one too.
John:Like, that just seemed fun. You know? That, like, just sort of the story within a story of, like, oh, yeah. They're into they're into punks. You know?
John:Like, they they it's not they don't just they're not they don't have punk traits. They just are fans of punks. Like that.
Matt:That was fun
John:to us. Yeah.
Sergio:Interesting. Yeah. I wish there was more of those, in the collection. They're so so so little than that. You know?
Sergio:Again, they never come out for for Yeah.
John:Them pretty rare because once again, we didn't want you to look at a bunch of Meebits and all you see are, like, punk punk t shirts and stuff. We wanted to make that pretty rare so that it didn't kinda, like, dominate the culture. We wanted Meebits to have its own look and its own kinda culture, but then, yeah, you can find those references.
Sergio:What about the pet tea? The one that females wear that.
Matt:Is that Yeah. Yeah.
Sergio:That inspired a lot of conspiracy theories. And, like, is there a, you know, companion collection coming, like, meatheads? Was that just I I'm not familiar with, like, like, a dog brand. So what was the story you had that one?
John:I think it was that kind of thinking that it's like, you could imagine that they could have pets or that, you know, so it was just fun to have that in there. It's like, oh, it's a cute T shirt that kinda suggests that there's other me bits. You know? And so yeah. Like, that that it I guess it was a success that that caused conspiracy theories because that was sort of the idea that it's like, oh, it sort of hints at, like yeah, like, oh, yeah.
John:You can imagine me bits have me peps. You know? But we didn't actually do that or anything, but we just thought it was a fun notion.
Matt:I kind of also imagine it as, like, there's a few shirts there that were, like, the kind of shirts that kids would wear. You know? Like like, I'm, like, in the same way as you'd wear, like, a Hello Kitty shirt or something. Like, in the Meebits world, MePets are Hello Kitty or whatever. You know?
Matt:Like, that's the thing that they're into. And, like, the, the, inverted hearts T shirt, it felt like another one of those just kinda, like, designs that a kid would wear out, you know, like, things like that. So those are, like, me bits, universe where, you know, like, things that the me bits are into in the me bits world.
Sergio:Yeah. Uniquely me bit. Right? Like, very, to your point, something just exists within the universe. My favorite trait is the full suits.
John:And Yeah.
Sergio:I think now that I realized they're probably inspired by people going to work in New York City in full suits, which makes me just really happy because that was, you know, my professional background. Is is that the case? Why did you guys add suits, at ILO? Yeah.
John:I mean, I think also the suits just look good too.
Matt:They look good. Yeah.
John:We made the suit. It's like, oh, it looks cool. You know? And and then there is something like you in punk culture, sometimes punks will wear suits Yep. But then have crazy hair or whatever.
John:You know? So, like like, the streetwear does involve suits or just the top of a suit. You know? Like, like, I don't think it's possible for Amoeba to just have suit pants because that's not really, you know, a a streetwear thing. But it is possible for them just to have the suit top because you do see that in streetwear.
John:But, yeah, it was a fun idea to have some of these Meebits, like, really buttoned up and, like, wearing the full suit. And, yeah, it can look Especially rare types. Yeah. The rare types.
Matt:That always cracks me up like a an elephant in a suit or a robot in a suit. Suddenly, it's just the whole thing is like, what's your story? You know? Like, that's what I love with these random combinations, and then you're like, what's your deal? Like, why were you were you are you in a, like, a post punk band, or are you going to work?
Matt:Like, which
John:is it?
Matt:You know?
Sergio:Yeah. No. That's amazing. I love have a suited elephant, and my my dream is a suited robot. They're just they they look so good.
Sergio:I think it's Mhmm. I think it's it's one of the best looking traits in all of NFTs. Alongside with the long cardigan in in even females, especially when you pair with the brim hat. Oh, yeah. Mhmm.
Sergio:Because that just looks amazing. And I feel like not only did you do, like, clothing really well, but you accessorize them really, really well. Like, there's so many, like, different things that's coaching for females that are different from males. There's, like, different earrings. There's different sunglasses even between genders, something that you didn't really have in in in punks.
Sergio:And it's all starting to make sense. And and I'm really excited because, you know, I think that you guys built this collection for for the future. Right? Like, you were always early. You've been early, and you were thinking about kinda, like, your three d identities and and the metaverse, but then you also put a lot of stuff in there that, you know, we've seen kind of play out already a little bit.
Sergio:One of the last T shirt traits that I wanna talk about was basketball, jerseys, which now I know is because, you know, New York City streetwear, obviously, basketball jerseys. I I thought maybe one of you played basketball or something in the past. You obviously have a lot of sneakers there. We'll go into that here in a second. But you guys put a puzzle in the jerseys of picks that later on to solve it, you had to kinda, like, interpret a key from a Proglift drop that you guys did with proof.
Sergio:So that's something that you obviously, you know, put into the collection early on, and then it came to lie two years later, a year and a half later. Tell me more about, like, your love for puzzles. Was that a onetime only? Are there more puzzles in the collection? I know we spent a lot of times in the community Discord, you know, trying to just figure out anything and everything that we can.
Sergio:Obviously, the price for the puzzle the last time around was maybe that people want more. Maybe it's supposed to just kinda kinda like playing that game of that game of, like, time, a game that was, like, put there from the beginning and and, you know, maybe hasn't been discovered.
John:Yeah. We love the puzzles. And, yeah, I don't think we're we're not gonna ever comment on, like, are there more puzzles or what are the puzzles or anything? But there it was something fun, and it was also fun to make it a game because it's like, alright. These things are gonna get minted and everything.
John:It'd be fun if there was a way for someone to get one for free if they figure something out, like, you know, like a little prize if they can figure stuff out. And, yeah, we come from computer science backgrounds. It's fun to kinda make these, like, nerdy little puzzles to solve. So that was a thing where we didn't know we were we were wondering if people would figure it out, without any hints, you know, and we thought probably not, but there was one thing that you kind of if you look really closely, you would notice that it's like, okay. Pigs wearing basketball jerseys.
John:You know, there's exactly 64 of them, and then at some mint number, they just stop. You know? So it's like, why are there this this number of pigs, but then after, like, me bit number 13,000 or something like that, there's no more pigs wearing jerseys. Like, why are they all squished into one side of the set kind of? You know?
John:So that's a little weird.
Matt:And 64 is a particularly noticeable number if you if you happen to look at it. You know?
John:Power of two that gets involved in, like, private keys and everything. And so, so then, anyway, yeah, then when we did the protoglyph, you know, we were doing, yeah, that project for proof, the the, GRAIL. And it's like, well, let's put a little hint in, you know, like, and just see what happens. And but in hindsight, the hint was pretty brazen kinda, you know, in fact, like, you know, we we realized later that we risked exposing because the whole idea with grails is you don't know who made what. And so we risked it.
John:We had risked exposing ourselves as the creator of that piece. They only figured it out a couple days after the mint that, you know, that that there was this puzzle in there. And the the prototype is very high resolution, so these little indicators were very small. You'd have to really zoom in on it, but people were doing that. They were just very zoomed in and looking.
John:And and then I feel like as soon as they knew there was a puzzle, it was gonna get solved. You know what I mean? Like, they just started working on it, trying different things. And, it's still maybe, like, my favorite tweet thread of all the time when he walked through all the steps of, it was so fun to read, this puzzle that we had. Yeah.
John:More than a year ago, we had created that unraveling it, you know, and then and then, yeah, getting the beep at the end of it. It it yeah. It was really it was it was great. So, yeah, it's, yeah, we love that kind of stuff. You know?
John:And, so, yeah, that was that was one of the like, really, yeah, one of the happiest moments with MeBits was was seeing that puzzle get solved.
Sergio:Yeah. I'm I'm not good at puzzles. I'm not gonna lie. I just noticed that there's 18,881 humans, which is the same written, you know, forwards and backwards, and there's 256 elephants, which obviously stands out. Right after that, yeah, it's, I'm I'm gonna let somebody else try to, try to find do the thing is that you have to find them first, and then you have to figure them out, which, you know, hopefully, there's a lot more there because I think it's just it's just a joy to see people kinda, like, discover traits by by trying to figure out this this puzzle.
Sergio:So, yeah, definitely, if you guys ever wanna drop a hint, you know, I think the committee will be very excited to try to to try to figure it out. Going back to the shoes, though, shoes, I guess, you know, NFTs, PFPs really just get kinda like the top part of the body, maybe like a background. You don't really get pants, and you definitely don't get feet. But you guys obviously made a a a full body model and then really put a lot of detail again into into shoes, a lot of rarities both, you know, female and male. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, what kinda like I'm guessing again streetwear, but, you know, there's particular different types of shoes like that l l 86.
Sergio:A lot of the community members are like, what does the 86 stand for? Is that something like is it because of Michael Jordan? Is it just a hint for a possible, the moon boots? Yeah. Tell me more about the shoes.
Matt:I think we were, like, very excited to do the shoes, first of all. I remember thinking that because, we hadn't like you said, we hadn't done a full body before. You know? Like, it was just a head, just head assets we were doing previously. So we're like, oh, we can do, like, you know, shoe rarity.
Matt:You know? Like, we can have sneaker collections here. And so, yeah, obviously, some are obvious to, you know, various, like, know, Jordans or Nikes or whatever, like, color wise and so on. The, 86 is just a, like, a self reference, basically, if I remember correctly. Like, we had, we had released a game.
Matt:It was like a retro, like, a role playing game, and it ran inside a little fake window that said larbatron 86, and it had, like, sort of Congress sixty four color scheme, I think. And so that was basically just a reference to that. It looks just like an eighties kind of reference, you know, across the whole thing. So, but, again, like, we were thinking, like, you know, in the MeBit universe, well, you know, are there shoes, like, designed by visitors or for visitors, but then a couple other people are like, I'm a fan of visitors. I wear the visitor shoes.
Matt:You know? Like, there's and so there's, like, a lot of, like, a little bit more of that too in the same way as there's, like, clothing for snouts. There's, like, some of these shoes are for as associated with certain types, but other types, you know, can occasionally wear them, things like that.
Sergio:Yeah. I see. Okay.
John:We we had seen, like, some overlap too in that, like, some of the people we knew in the NFT space were also, like, sneaker collectors. You know? And Mhmm. And then, yeah, once again, you see a lot of cool sneakers in New York. You know?
John:And and it's a it's like a big part of streetwear culture. So it was it was fun to do them. And then, yeah, in, you know, in the Meebits launch, you know, we had sort of, like, a every Meebit came with an image of the whole Meebit, kind of then, like, torso, and then this and then, like, a zoom in on the feet, which we just thought was kinda fun where it's like, yeah, there's a there's a picture just of the shoes. Really, like, highlighting that. And, and then, yeah, we wanted we sort of in in this once again, trying to make this world within a world, we wanted to have, like, kind of brands inside, the MeBits.
John:You know? So, like, the LL, you know, I guess, Larva Labs. Like, the that was kind of, like, the high end shoes were all, like, the LLs. You know? Like, you got the LL Moon Boots.
John:You got the LL 80 sixes. You know? Like, those are, like, the and, and then, yeah, obviously, we got like, we mentioned before, the Snouts branded stuff and everything. But, yeah, just to have a few kind of, like, brands within it was just a fun a fun, idea.
Sergio:I'm even, like, surprised to find, like, high boots for the female moves and things like that. Like, the hairstyles, we mentioned them earlier. How did like, when you guys taking pictures of people on the sofa, like, hairstyles as well? Or how did that come about?
John:Yeah. Well and I think with the traits in general, one of the things that Matt and I always kinda go for is, like, you know, I feel like a lot of other NFT collections, you know, you can just imagine making everything kinda crazy. You know? Like, everything's over the top. Everyone's hair is wild and nuts, and they're wearing crazy streetwear or whatever.
John:But we wanted to have some level of normalcy too where it's like, yeah. You can just get a normal looking bit who just looks like regular person or, you know, they they're dressed cool or whatever, but they're they're not over the top, and their hairstyle is not, like, really unusual. Some are. Some do have cool, unusual hair colors, right, but not all of them. You know?
John:And so we sorta like that. And CryptoPunks has that too where there's just, like you know, people call them, like, clean punks, you know, where it's just like, oh, yeah. It's just like an a good, normal looking punk. And so we kinda wanted that in Meebits as well. So some of those, traits are just like, yeah.
John:That's just what people are wearing and, looks looks good. You know? And, doesn't have to be every trait crazy. You know? And and then I feel like that makes the weirder traits, like, stand out way more in contrast, you know, where it's like, if you all of a sudden see, like, a a really crazy pair of sneakers or, yeah, some rare, like, a blue camo snouts T shirt or something, it's like, oh, yeah.
John:That's awesome. You know? And, whereas if every every me bid had sort of wild stuff on, then it would just all kind of become same, in a way. So we wanted to make sure there's that contrast between a like a like a normal me bid and one who has something kind of exceptional or unusual going on.
Sergio:Interesting. I I wanna say so excited to go walk around New York City later, this weekend and just be like, oh my god. Like, this city inspired the me bids. But personally and this is, you know, very personal. I mean, like, you know, it's been it's been fifteen years here in New York, and it's been such a part of, like, my life story.
Sergio:And it's a chapter that that is closing for me. And so to to fall in love with a collection that not only represents so much of the NFT culture and what you guys, like, learned through the years and then applied to it, but also a city that I love so much. I think it's just, made it extra special. So I appreciate you sharing that. Looking at the future, though, obviously, right, like, Meebits are right now on their the of of Yuga, potentially a new chapter coming up here in the short term.
Sergio:For you, though, like, how did you see Meebits kind of, like, playing out as far as, like, the role in in in the world? Obviously, metaverses haven't really materialized. Again, that concept of being really early comes into mind. But, you know, just I think as I as I look back personally and then talking to, like, artists like Snowfur and other people that really like Nimitz as well, like, they're pieces of art, and maybe they've not been really had the opportunity to be appreciated, in the way they're meant to be appreciated. So I would love to hear how you guys kinda, like, see maybe it's evolving, into the future and kind of what kind of role they play into, you know, your guys' own legacy, if I if I can call it that.
Sergio:Yeah.
Matt:Yeah. I think, so we the original, you know, conception was they're, you know, a little they're much more software than, our previous projects. I mean, that's not true with auto moves entirely, but they're they're designed to live in a software world that could be manipulated by software. They, like, are, you know, a three d model. So, yeah, the metaverse or even in use in games, was sort of its original concept.
Matt:But I think and that's still totally true. But I think also it started to become a realization to us that it's, they're kind of, in terms of like the art side of things, they're a sculpture. So a lot of what's interesting right now is people who are into NFTs, digital art, all that stuff, they're figuring out how, you know, how do I display these things? Like, what feels like a like a real, authentic way to display? Is it a screen?
Matt:Is it a print? And and, all these things are sort of two dimensional digital things brought into the three d world, and it's fine. There there's good versions of that. But whereas, like, I think a, like, a three d representation of Amoeba feels, like, really of the of the three d world in a unique way. So that I feel like is a a thing that our other two projects don't have and something that we're kinda getting interested in highlighting.
Matt:And especially as you if you see a number of those things, you start to appreciate, I think, in a different way how the how they're generative, how there's, like, the all this variety and you there's something about the human brain that when you see a lot of things that are similar but different, you it really becomes attractive. So I I feel like a lot of that is is possible in the three d space, where it's not with our other projects potentially.
John:Yeah. And we see it as yeah. Definitely, this is, you know, our third, major project and, in this space, and we're really proud of it. You know, we think it maybe has been a little, like, overlooked on the whole versus the first two. I I think, yeah, exactly.
John:Like, what and we've, you know, we've three d three d printed them and stuff, and and and we really love how they just look in in in, in physical space. We think there's still, yeah, just there's still potential out there for them to be, like, a three d avatar. And, you know, who knows how that will develop or or, you know, whether there'll be this idea of, like, a portable three d avatar that can move between platforms and everything. Because we've seen, obviously, massive uptake continued uptake of of three avatars and accessorization in Fortnite and other, you know, environments like that. But we what we just haven't seen is that kind of social crossover between, you know, between platforms.
John:The way you see it, you know, where it's like, yeah. I can make my CryptoPunk or my Meebit really an image of my Meebit. I I can put that as my profile picture all across these different platforms. And and so it would be amazing if there was yeah. If if there was a way to, you know, if a three d avatar took off, then Amoeba would be so well suited to that environment.
John:But whether that happens or not, I still think, yeah, they stand alone. We're proud of them as these these three d digital sculpture pieces, you know, and and we continue to, yeah, enjoy them. And like Matt said, we're we're working on trying to get really nice three d representations, something like physical representations, and get a collection of them where they really look great in a group and everything. And so so that's that's that's how we, you know, that's how we think about it.
Sergio:So ideally, in the future, maybe, like, some big sculptures or something like that in the lobby of, like, office buildings, like you mentioned, cars. Because for me and I was talking actually to to the punk's Telegram earlier today, and I was like, this is like, you know, you guys have the paintings, which is the punks and the glyphs and then the sculptures. Kinda like almost like Damien Hirst has his dots and then that big shark and some of the other stuff that he's put up in in physical form or three d form. Not the way I look at at Neebits when it comes to, like, the Largo Labs, you know, projects.
John:Yeah. That's a good way to look at it. I I agree with that. Yeah.
Matt:Yep.
Sergio:Nice. Nice. And, as we come here to to the top of the hour, anything else, any tidbits, that we might have not, you know, kind of, like, talked about, anything that you wanna share with with the MeBits community? Obviously, you know, we're personally very excited to to to publish this and and and to help tell the story a little bit better. You know, at the end of the day, they're NFTs, and they get, you know, kinda, like, lost in the market and financial movements, but I think there's so much more artistic value, to them than that, you know, should definitely come up to to the surface.
Sergio:And and hopefully, the idea here for for the podcast is is to do that. But if there's anything else that I might have missed asking, you know, please feel free to to share.
John:Yeah. Anything else that was, missed there? I feel like we we covered a pretty good pretty good ground there.
Matt:Yeah. And there's a there it's funny because, like, I keep like, there's lots of little worlds in here. You know? So and I forget them myself, and then we you ask a question or someone brings something up. I'm like, oh, yeah.
Matt:This is like that, and this is so there's I'm sure there's more. You know? Like, there's all these little, like, places where, like, oh, remember that hair was done because of this? I'm like, oh, yeah. So it I'll you know, I'm sure it'll remember more, but there's a lot all these little things that are you can get into in the collection.
Matt:There's a lot of that.
Sergio:And which is what I invite people to do. Just go look at, like, the hats. Like, the rainbow color, the, like, you know, the purple dye. Like, it's just there's so much depth to them. Cool.
Sergio:Well, you know, thank you so much for not just being here today, but creating them and and, you know, sharing and putting so much of your own artistic and and, you know, development DNA into not just me bits, but punks and and glyphs. And, yeah, and I'm excited to see what kind of, you know, three d sculpting sculpting or anything else like that you guys you guys do. And, obviously, you're always welcome to come back to the MeVITs podcast and and tell us some more of those stories as they as they come to mind. Yeah. We'll always always be your house as well.
Matt:Great. Thanks so much.
John:Thanks for having us.
Matt:Mhmm.
Sergio:Alright. Hunter, you wanna cut it?