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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: Saw all right, buddy,
we're rolling whenever you're
ready. Yes, we are back with
another edition of circling the
drain. I'm Jay Harper, but the
leader of the captain of the
ship, so to speak, Johnny B is
is here. Of course, Fear not. I
mean, just because you see my
face first is no reason to
panic. Johnny is here.
We're not gonna panic, Jay,
you're a good looking cat. Man,
come on. Well, thank you girls.
Dig here. I love you too.
Well, man, great to see you.
Jim, great to see you. And of
course, we have, who else will
you toss it to now?
Well, I'll toss it because it is
baseball season, correct? Yep,
yes, we got Jim McCarthy, who
runs this ship offsetting the
beauty?
Yes, well, don't about that.
Well, I tell you no
handsomeness. I am always
excited to get together with you
fellas, but I'm especially
excited today to welcome a guest
that's a guy that I have looked
up to for a long time, a true,
pro, real man's man that, of
course, would be Benny Ray.
Shipley, Benny Yes. Benny Ray,
joining us here. Yeah. Benny
Ray, yeah, yeah. I mean, during
the the Benny and the Jets days,
did you get any mileage? Yeah.
Well, I when I meet someone for
the first time, whether it be a
celebrity or a listener, they
would always say, I introduce
myself. Oh, like Benny and the
Jets. Actually, Benny was a
girl, b e n n, right, right. B e
n n i e or I'd get Benny Hill.
Oh yeah, I
Yeah, and, and
when I introduced myself, we saw
like Benny Hill. And I probably
got more Benny Hill than Benny
in that time, but now it's more
like Benny.
Well, Benny is man, as I say, a
guy that I've looked up to for
for many, many years, a radio
Pro that has been through the
wars, a voice over veteran. I
mean, you've done all these
national spots and stuff, but
man, you come from real humble
beginnings in small town,
Kentucky, and Johnny and I and
Jim. You know, we were all kind
of kids when we got into radio,
but man, you were indeed a kid
when you started right. So tell
us about that. Scottsville,
Kentucky, right?
1965 I was 15,
and I worked at W, L, C, K for a
couple of years, and then I was
still in high school, and I
worked there on the weekends,
afternoons and weekends, and no
one really paid any attention to
it, because, well, it was local.
And then I got a job during the
summer of 67 at wcds, which was
the Rock and Roll station in
high school. Yeah, and, man,
when I went back to school, I
was popular. All of a sudden, I
got elected to these offices,
you know, like vice president of
some club, or president of this
club, or their journal
journalism club or whatever. And
I thought, I'm the same person
as I was before. All of a
sudden, it was like, Oh, you
work at wcds. The kids love
wcds, and I loved working there.
I was there eight years before
coming to Nashville. Oh, wow,
at 15 years of age, though. I
mean, how did you get that gig?
Did you did you know somebody?
Or did you just walk in and say,
hey, I want to work here. Were
you one of those geeks that just
kind of hung around the station
and they finally hired you.
Well, what happened a cousin of
mine, the first cousin was
president of the Elvis Presley
fan club, and they met once a
week on wlck, and it was kind of
in contrast to the Beatles they
must say, Well, you know, the
office is the king, so they had
a fan club. And so she got to
know the manager of the radio
station there, and she knew I
was interested in radio, so she
introduced me to it, and said,
Well, my cousin just loves
radio. He really like come up
and meet you and just watch. And
so luckily, being a small town
radio station, they they have a
need for people to sit in. And
so I studied to get my third
class radio telephone operators,
yeah, back in the day when you
needed that right element nine
broadcast endorsement. And
finally, hung around long enough
that they put me on the air, and
I made $1.25 an hour, which I
guess was a lot of money,
at least from radio. I
called Man, I've got money now.
I went in, the first thing I
bought was a color television.
Oh, wow. And. I was just
thrilled. But, and then a stereo
after that, you think I'd have
gotten the stereo first, right?
The television came first. I had
to see color. You know, the
first, the first show I watched
in color was Gun Smoke. And it
was great to see, you know, the
colors James aren't his shirt
and and when someone got shot,
you actually saw red. And so
that was, that was thrilling. Of
course, I was, you know, 1616,
years old time,
yeah, but, but, man, you were
rolling in the dough. Yeah. You
were Mr. Popular there, at least
when you got to Glasgow.
In Glasgow, yeah. And that was a
part time gig for until I got
out of high school and hired me
full time. The guy that owned
the station, Johnny barrack, was
such a wonderful person to work
with, and his kids would come
over and help answer the phones
and things like that, and it was
a great learning ground, because
he let me do anything I wanted
on the air, as long as long as
he kept it clean, he was fine
with it. But then I back in
those days, it seemed like disc
jockeys wanted to hop around and
said, the more radio stations
you work for, the bigger you
are, you know, the better. But I
always thought
maybe I needed to do that. But
Ted Johnson, who was Assistant
Program Director of WSM at the
time, had worked at wbgn in
Bowling Green, and he had heard
me on the radio. I'd heard him
on the radio, and then when he
found out I was kind of looking
he offered me a job at WSM to
this was 1974 and that was to
work with Harold Hensley, the
great Harold Hensley, yeah, he
was, oh my gosh, I can think of
a better person to have worked
with than Harold Hensley. Now,
if I said the great Harold
Hensley in front of him, he was,
there's nothing great about me,
you know, and that's what was
very charming. But he was a big
cut up. He would pull pranks on
you. It was just hilarious,
hilarious. And what I did, I was
like, his side gig, okay, yeah,
you know. And I would answer the
phones. I would go let the guest
in, and then I would do his
headline news, and every time,
well, not every time, but a few
times, I'd go into the little
room with which studio, WSM
studio, right through the next
door was the UPI AP room, and of
course, he was insulated with
sound, So I'd go in there and
start pulling the headlines, and
he'd start the theme, and I
would just, I'd have a long
piece of paper. He started the
news theme, and I had to run
back in and
try to read, try to Yeah,
decipher all that stuff. Yeah,
back in the days with the UPI
and the AP machine and the Bing,
bing, bing, whenever breaking
news would would happen. So how
old were you when? When you
jumped over to WSN, 70?
I was 24 Okay, yeah, yeah. So I
was old man by then.
Well, man, but you know that? I
mean, come on, that's quite a
jump, that that's a real, that's
a real testament to your talent.
I mean, you don't normally go
from, you know, all due respect,
to Glasgow, but from Glasgow to
WSM I mean, you had to really
be, really be proud about that.
I was in awe of everyone that
worked there. And I'd sit there
and say, What am I doing here?
How did I get through the door?
And when Ralph Embry or somebody
like that would walk in while I
was on the air, I would just
play songs back to back. I
didn't I thought, if I open my
mouth, they'll find me out. But
no, I was humbled, and I was in
awe of the people I've worked
with, legends, and I'm thinking,
How did I get really, literally,
how did I get here, right?
I can only imagine now you and I
met via your wife at the time,
who was Sheila Shipley. She was
my boss at at MCA. Did did
Sheila? Were you two involved
before you came here. I mean,
she's too She too was from
Scottsville, right?
We were childhood sweethearts.
Yeah, I met her when I was 15.
Oh, wow. And we got married in
1969, I was 19, and, yeah, she
was couple years younger than
me, right, right? And then, of
course, we had a son Three years
later, and then I got a job at
WSM, and that was such a big
change. Oh, I can imagine used
to, yeah, it was like, I guess
if you're a pilot and you're
flying a small cub around, then
you jump in the seat of seven.
47 Oh my gosh. It's like flying
747. When you're sitting on
50,000 watt Clear Channel,
right? And it's, it's mighty
powerful feeling. And you feel
good, sure, I would really want
to do the job.
Did you feel some kind of, I
would think you had to deal with
some culture shock. You come
into the big city, and then
coming face to face with country
music superstars and whatnot
that would come in to the radio
station. I mean, what was that
adjustment like?
Well, luckily, did not happen
all at once. I would meet some
famous people a little at a
time. And back in those days, if
a star wanted to be on Harold's
show, you know, Ralph Emery did
that show for a long time, they
would take a little pebble in
and hit the window, which we
could look down in the parking
lot. And so if you heard a
pebble hit the window, you have
to look out and see who's there.
Wow. And then they come around
back, which was right down the
steps, and they put a like a
intercom doorbell. And then they
started using that now one
night, yeah, time that I refused
to do something with Harold, I
felt so bad about it. Wayland,
Jennings, Willie Nelson, Chris
Christopherson, had been out
partying, and so they decided
they wanted to come up and be on
with Harold. But they were, you
know, and so Harold said, well,
Willie Nelson and Waylon,
Jennings and Chris Christopher's
down, they want to come up so
you tell them I can't have them
tonight. Listen, you want me to
go down and tell Wayland
Jennings, no, you can't make it
tonight. I'm not going to so
they finally got on the security
guard just to tell them they
were really mad. Oh yeah, but
no, Harold was great to work
with us. The only time I said
I'm not going, but those lot of
fun nights, I mean, I got to
know Marty Robbins, oh, he would
come by a lot and bring his
guitar and sing it, thinking I'm
sitting right beside Marty
Robbins, there he was with his
daughter, and I'm hearing him
this close. I'm not having to
hear him through a speaker or
radio. And there he is, that
beautiful voice.
Oh, wow, yeah, he was special.
Oh yeah. And I can remember when
he passed away. I remember it
was like December 8 of 82 right?
December 8. December 9. I was
working radio in Louisiana,
Baton Rouge at the time, and
it's one of the only times I can
remember after hearing of
someone passing I had grown men
calling the radio station in
tears. He really, really
affected a lot of people.
Well, here, have to tell you
this. I was working at music
country radio network, right,
which was part of WSM, and I
just gotten off at two in the
morning. Al risen. I got the
name of Al Rison was on from two
until six. While I was on the
way home, I was listening to Al
and Marty Robbins called, and
they were talking, and Marty
complains, so I'm laying on the
floor right now, my back is
killing me, and he had just
gotten off tour, and so I went
home. I never thought anything
about it, but when I woke up the
next day, I heard the news that
Marty Robbins had a massive
heart attack. Now he was still
alive, but I don't
think well, he had heart issues
all throughout his young life,
yeah.
And one thing I did love about
Marty, whenever he played the
Opry and he was the last act, he
would always run over, yes. And
I remember it used to make
Ernest really mad, because
Ernest would be doing his
midnight jamboree at his record
shop, and I got to hear it on
the radio one night that shit
was hilarious. Would always do,
yeah, he'd always do several
encores of El Paso.
And also, Marty would call and
prank you on the phone. He would
disguise his way. He called me
like that and said, I'm over
here this nursing home, and I'm
listening to WSM radio. I really
enjoy and everything. But I was
just wondering if you could I
saw, let me guess, you want to
hear Marty Robbins song, right?
And he said, Oh, you son of a
gun, but he would do stuff like
that. He was a sweetheart. He
was a great guy.
So again, I mean, we would be
here all day to to ask you about
the all the artists you've met
and and dealt with over the
years, but you have to have some
real favorites. I mean, you've
just mentioned Marty Robbins. I
mean, there, there had to have
been others that really, really
hit home with you.
Well, there were some that I
met, that I thought I'd never
meet, and became, actually
became kind of friends with. One
was. Lefty Frizzell, I just
couldn't believe lefty actually
said he loved listening to me.
And I thought, oh my god, yeah,
that's yeah, that would be and
he would call me on the phone
and he said, I'm gonna bring my
guitar up and, you know,
performs on the air for you. And
he did that several times. He
said, I'm going to make it this
weekend. Now he called me on, I
think it was Sunday, Sunday
evening of this particular week,
and said, I am definitely going
to come up and see you Friday
night after the Opry. See I was
on after the midnight jamboree.
And I said, Great. And he said,
I'm gonna bring my guitar and
I'll stay with you all night. So
Wednesday, he died of a heart
attack, mercy, and that just
killed me. I mean, not just
because he passed away, but we
had had plans, you know, yeah,
but he was one of them Alabama.
They were great guys. I met them
before they became stars. I
actually, at that time, was
working at wsix FM, doing
mornings and an independent
promoter, right promoter,
brought a record. It was on a
self, one of these very
independent labels that I think
they had had pressed up
themselves and the song, and I
still have that record at home.
The song was, I want to come
over the Alabama band. And I
thought, This is great. So I was
the music director at that time,
so I thought I'd put it on. And
this was before my home in
Alabama was out. So I started
getting requests for it. People
really liked it.
And, you know, he it just took
off
after that. So they were the
Alabama, they weren't still wild
country at no time.
At this time, they called
themselves the Alabama band, and
then later, Alabama, yeah, but
then that was fun. They would
come up and visit me when I was
at wsix, and they would come up
an old black van. And so I saw a
progression from the black van
to a limousine for someone
else's diving. And they would
come in and, you know, chat with
me for a little while. But they
were,
they were great. I mean, Benny,
you had such a fabulous career
from the radio perspective. When
I mean Johnny, can you imagine,
you know, gosh, Alan Jackson or
George Strait throwing a pebble
on your window to come up and
talk to,
you know, what an amazing what
an
amazing time, though. Yeah,
that wasn't, you know, that's a
magical moment, no, and that's
when Nashville, to me, was fun,
yeah.
And at the moment, it wasn't
that I wasn't aware of it. I
appreciate it every second. And
I thought, I can't believe I'm
absorbing all this. I would even
go in and watch Lester flat
record the the 15 minute
bluegrass. So the Martha White
Oh yeah, Arthur, white flower,
yeah, they had a 15 minute
program every morning before the
waking crew, and grant Turner
was MC in it. I can't believe I
worked with someone like Grant
Turner. GRANT Turner was great
guy, yeah, the dean, they call
him, but one of the nicest guys
ever met was Grant Turner, but I
would sit there and in the
studio and watch them, where
they where they did the waking
crew. They would come in and do
an entire week's worth, and
Marty Stewart was with them at
that time, had a big flight
cowboy hat, and it was playing
that dude is unbelievable, yeah,
yeah, but of course, Earl
Scruggs had separated from
Leicester flat, so I never did
get seal them together. Yeah,
that was fascinating. I am
watching Lester flat and Marty
Stewart do that Martha White
show. It was amazing.
So tell us about some of the
wonderful women of country music
that you had an opportunity to
interact with,
Reba McIntyre, right? You worked
with Reba? Yeah, yeah. Now, I
met Reba when she first went
with mercury record. Mercury,
yeah, a dear friend of mine,
Frank level, oh yeah. Remember
Frank? Yeah,
he brought her by, and I did an
interview with Reba. We recorded
one, and I put a little special
together with her. And after the
interview, we went to this
little steakhouse at
Murfreesboro road and had lunch
that was fun. And Reba seemed
always remember. Remember me
from those early days. You would
always, no matter what she was
doing, she'd say, Hey, you come
over here, you know, give me a
hug. And I remember seeing her
on the street. She was getting
bigger and bigger, oh yeah,
time. And I didn't want to
bother her, and so I'd seen her
on the street. Andy Williams'
brother, I think it was Don
Williams, at the time, was
managing her, yes, and so I met
her outside the old MCA, where
they used to be in that smaller
building on 16th Avenue, and she
would stop and say hi. And then
I was at one of the CRS
conventions at the Opryland
hotel, and there was a big crowd
around her, and you know, you
don't want to bother them when
they're busier, going from point
A to point B. Well, I kind of
passed her, and she passed me,
and she stopped and called my
name and came over and gave me a
hug. She's always done that.
Wow, even to this day,
who the thought? Because, you
know, when I first, I first I
first started playing her
records when she was on Mercury.
Who would have thought at that
time that she would be as big as
she is? No, you know, you you
reach, you reach super stardom.
But all you have to say is the
first name, yeah, you know, Reba
true, yeah.
I remember back in those days,
she actually did a duet with
Jackie Ward, yeah. Jackie Ward,
yeah.
I remember Jack mercury as well.
Yeah,
Jackie was a great guy, and that
was, I think that was a big
thing for her to do a duet with
Jackie that time, because he
was, yeah,
he was established, yeah, he was
a hit maker. You know, we've
had, we had Deborah Allen as a
guest here, and you know, she
did those duets with through the
magic with Jim Reeves, and that
introduced her to the world and
made her, you know, a little
more credible in the eyes of
radio programmers.
Yeah, I remember doing an
interview with Deborah Allen
when she was married to Ray
fenwol, right? And I had them
all together. And that is some
more interviews with her. And
she was always sweet, yeah, oh,
yeah, I know she and Ray Van Hoy
were writing a lot of songs
these days, right? Ray fan hoy
is more of a writer than than an
artist, although he did have
have a couple of records, yeah.
Now you mentioned that you were
music director at wsix Back
then, did you have the autonomy
to just play whatever the heck
you wanted, or did you have to
run it by corporate or some
other well, entity,
I thought I had the power to do
that until I got called down a
couple of times now, the program
director at that time decided
that I should not have put
Alabama on because nobody knew
who they were at that time, I
want to come over. That was the
song we were playing, and I said
I thought that we could as long
as the record sounded good and
had a nice message. It didn't
matter whether they were known
or not, as long as fit the
format. And he thought about, I
said, Well, you're right, and he
put it back on. He because he
pulled it off and he put it back
on after I needed pleaded with
it.
So yeah, you ultimately got the
the last laugh on that, right?
Yeah, because those fellas did,
okay, well, so did he?
He did really, really, really,
well, yeah. Can I mention his
name?
Yeah. Well, it's entirely up to
you.
Jerry house, oh yeah, Jerry and
I were actually really close for
a long time. We we kind of split
with thoughts, but no, we're
good friends, and I always was
proud to have worked with him.
He was great.
Yeah, you know that whole house
foundation thing, boy, that was
a juggernaut.
Yeah, that's that's true. And I
mean, he worked hard for it.
He really did. Now, did you ever
work with the great Jerry
minchell, yes, I did
the great Jerry Minchew. You
talk about a voice and wsix, I
was on FM, he was on AM, yeah.
And then I worked with Jerry
again at WSM later, yeah. And of
course, now he's my neighbor.
You've just meant to be
together. Have
you ever had to call the police
on him for too much noise. He
seems like a rowdy
guy's do, like, the home
improvement over the fence
conversations with, like,
fabulous radio voices. Well, the
neighbors perk up when it
happens.
Like I'm on the second story.
He's down in the first even
better, I can yell at him and
say, Hey, Jerry,
Jerry had to call me one time. I
got called to the carpet
because he was music director at
the radio station we were
working at, and the uppity UPS
told him to get in touch with
me. I played a David Allen co
song called divers do it deeper.
And then they told. Him, said,
Let him know if he ever does
that again, that he will no
longer be working here. And
Jerry was very diplomatic about
it. That low voice, Johnny, I
was told if you'd play that song
again that well, they said,
that's the last time you're
gonna play yeah.
What a great guy, though. Oh,
and what a great talent. I
remember the first time I met
David Alan Cole. I was scared of
it, because I heard all these
rumors. And turned out the
really nice guy he is. He is a
super nice guy, yeah. And then I
got to interview him when I
worked at Ws, Sims, music,
country network a couple of
times, and he was, he was
fabulous,
yeah, he was always fabulous to
me. And I've heard other people
say that, you know, I had a bad
experience with him, but I never
did well.
And Johnny paycheck, I'd met
him. I never interviewed him,
but I met him one night. I was
working with Harold, and of
course, I was going through the
master control room to go to the
front of WSM. It's in the old
WSM V building, yeah, where
Channel Four is. And we were
there for quite a few years, and
I didn't know he was on the
other side of the door, and I
opened the door, he was staring.
I apologize, it wasn't, I
wasn't, you know, scared of you.
I just wasn't expecting you.
Yeah, but
were you ever, were you still at
WSM when they went over to the
Opryland hotel and were in that
bubble, you know, in that in
that room, what kind of
experience was that like to, you
know, have people with their
nose pressed up against the
glass watching you do your
thing.
Well, when I went back to WSM,
we were still on the hill with
Channel Four and national life
still home the company at that
time, which they were great to
work for. They were absolutely
fabulous. I mean, they treated
you like part of the family
anyway, we moved from the hill
in 1982 out to the little white
building. They call it House on
the Prairie, which is before you
get to the opry land hotel. I am
Stanley. Tore it down the last
few months, but we were in that
we even had trailers in the
back, and so we were there for
quite a while, until Charlie
Douglas came up. So we were
broadcasting, taking over the
WSM am studio at night for music
country network. And then chuck
Morgan left and went to work for
the Dallas,
Texas Rangers. Well, it's in
Texas anyway.
Wrong team. But no, Chuck was a
great guy to work with, too, and
he's still with the Texas
Rangers. And I ran into him in
October when WSM had the 100th
anniversary. Yeah, and I hadn't
seen him in years, but still the
same, same old Chuck. But
anyway, I set in for Chuck for
six months as the interim host
of the music country network. So
they got a replacement. And of
course, that replacement was
Charlie Douglas in the right
game. Yeah, I had heard of
Charlie, yeah, WWL, New Orleans.
So I didn't know what to expect,
and I Charlie was one of the
most fantastic guys I had ever
worked with. He loved to have
fun. It was like radio used to
be. Yes, he was like, I tried to
compare him to a character
called fizzy wig from the
Christmas Carol. Remember the
fizzy wig character, when
Scrooge looked back on the life
and there was fizzy wig always
having to, you know, it was his
first boss, yeah, his first
boss. And in the Muppet
Christmas Carol, it's named
Fozzie wig.
And his character was maybe not
as animated, but his heart was
like that, very jubilant. He
wanted us all to have fun. As a
matter of fact, speaking of the
Christmas Carol, he wanted me to
put a Country Christmas carol
together, which I produced. I
went to the library, found the
shortest version of the
Christmas Carol I could find,
and we used country music stars
as the characters. Bill Anderson
was whispering Scrooge. That's
great. Grandpa Jones was the
Ghost of Christmas Past.
How does whispering bill have
the intimidation factor of a
scrooge of his whisper,
well, he did say humbug.
Sounds like Clint Eastwood, but
grandpa Jones will said it's.
Jerry Clower was also, Oh, wow.
But the thing is, I recorded
them all separately, none. So I
had to put it all together. I
actually suddenly some of them,
I can read the lines to them.
But they were all just just
loved it, because they were
doing something out of Yeah,
yeah. What a project that was
like, an hour
project. Oh, Mercy. How long did
it take you to put that too,
and was that? Was that real or
real?
Real or real? Yeah, so we're you
did have a
project, pencils and
razor blades? Yeah,
you put some calluses on those
fingertips you
had some long nights on that
own sound effects, sometimes
too, like the chains of one of
the ghosts. I borrowed one of
the guys chains from his car.
You know, you know, snow chains,
and made the sound effects of
that, and I borrowed people from
the radio station as extras, and
I don't know how to put it
together now, looking back,
because I didn't have multi
track, I would
imagine you had to put the story
line together and then improvise
the soundtracks onto another,
Yeah, set of tape
sound effects. How neat it would
be to hear that today. Oh, a
guy I know, Jim driver, whom I
worked with at WSM years ago,
has a copy of it. Oh, wow. And
he is promised to bring it to me
to one of the luncheons. Oh
yeah, the radio luncheons. So
I'm hoping they get a copy of,
Oh, man.
I mean, that needs to be in a
museum where some radio Museum.
Well, the Country Music Radio
Hall of Fame does have it in
their archives. Now it's in
their archives, which doesn't
mean that nobody knows anything
about it, but we present, I have
a picture actually, me, Johnny
Russell and Charlie Douglas
presenting the master tape to
the Country Music Hall of Fame.
Oh, wow, that's that's cool.
Johnny Russell was tiny.
Tim. I mean, this was great
typecasting. Yeah.
Charlie Douglas's humor, you
know, you gotta get
Johnny to play time. What a
character he was. Johnny
Russell.
Did you have any trouble
convincing when you brought this
idea to these stars? Did they
all just think that was great
and jump in? Or did you have to
twist their
arms? Oh, no, I didn't have
twist anybody.
I just can't imagine doing that
today. You know, going to today
stars and wanting to do
something like that? Yeah, I
don't think you'd get the Yeah,
you'd have to go through their
manager and their publicist.
Miss Swift.
Do you want to do this thing?
I would love to see that. I'd be
surprised.
You know, it'd be kind of an
interesting experience.
Interesting experiment.
Would be, yeah, but the whole
theater of the mind thing is
what makes radio so special. And
you know, you that had to while
the workload had to be arduous,
as you've described, that had to
be an absolute blast.
It was fun. It was
creative, to be able to be that
creative, yeah, yeah.
So, I mean, you know, the
theater of the mind for this
podcast is the fact that the
three of us are muscular.
Adonises, oh, wait a minute,
we've got cameras in here.
Yes, right? Cameras kind of
Yeah. The Mystery of radio is
now gone. That
was the nice thing about radio.
People didn't have
to, it's true, yeah. Well, that
was the great thing about radio
then as well. It was, I think
even listening to the opry on
the weekend, you know, people
would envision in their own mind
what, what everything looked
like, what? And that's kind of
gone today with cameras
everywhere. And I kind of hate
that radio, but you came up
during a magical time.
Oh yeah, it was magical. And
you, too, you were in radio
before you came to Nashville,
right, right, you know. And
Johnny, of course, as well,
yeah, you know. And I came to
Nashville kind of in the tail
end of a lot of the golden era
that many people refer to it as,
you know, you know, I met Owen
Bradley, and you know people
like that way back when, but you
know, again, you had a wife at
the time that was with a record
label, a number of them. Did you
ever get, you know, so many
radio guys go to a label. Did
you ever have that opportunity
or have the bug to work for a
record company? Oh no, yeah,
I admired what you did. I don't
think I could have done it. I
would have been me in the. That
time. And of course, you work
with other people in the music
industry that was in radio, like
Roger rams,
Oh, of course, just about all of
us that were at MCA at the time,
not everybody, but most of us
were old radio guys, yeah, you
know. And that's the case with
so many, at least back then, the
record label reps, at least the
promotion radio promotion
people. But you know, let's face
it, radio, record labels and
radio both are just so totally
different these days. And I do
see a lot of the record reps
that are out there now, they're
not radio people. They've never
worked in radio. No, you know,
but so you know, you've
transitioned. Well, let me ask
you this. You are a major talent
when it comes to voiceover work.
Another thing that I've always
admired about you, were you
doing that while in radio? Or is
that something that you really
started attacking once you you
kind of left radio full time?
Well, I'd
always loved putting something
together, putting commercials
together, was like,
Yeah, you're a production guy.
Yes, I Yes, very much. And if I
always thought, if I wasn't
invited to the party, I would
just make my own I'd throw my
own party, as far as getting
into doing voice over work. But
I had, I guess I was blessed
that I was able to step into it,
because I'd done all these
commercials on radio, yeah, and
I'd keep, I keep the best ones,
you know, for auditions, you
know, for my real, my voice over
real. And so when I got to
Nashville, I was told I needed
to hook up with talent model
land at the time, Betty Clark,
God, rest her soul. Yes, she
was, she was great. I got with
her, and looking back, I don't
know what she saw in me, but I
went to her 111, time, and I
asked her, you know, I was
getting rejected a lot, and
especially on camera things like
that. I said, Betty, just be
honest with me. But she was very
brutally honest with everybody,
which I loved about her. And I
said, What's wrong? What do I
need to do? And he's she said,
Well, look at yourself. She
come
on, look at yourself.
So she basically just broached
the topic, hey, look at yourself
and then decide what you need to
change? Not like, well, look at
yourself. I mean, you're a good
looking guy. I mean,
well, I mean, I had like, a
mustache. My hair was down to
here at the time. And she said,
What do you need to clean up? A
little and which, all the
information she gave me really
helped. Now, I recalled going
into to visit with a dear
friend. He's a dear friend of
mine. Now, his, can I say his
name is
all you want on him. We
encourage it.
I don't know if you know him.
Went to the sound shop for
years. He was also a WNYC radio
and who was that again? Now,
Byron Warner, okay, and anyway,
he was in charge of the
production at sound shop, which
was owned by Buddy killing.
Yeah, right, right. And Byron
took care of the commercials
that they did a lot of
commercials there. So I went in,
and this first time I met Byron,
I had in my little reel of my
voice work. And he put it on the
reel to reel, and sat there
behind his desk, and
you do this, you know, you know,
as it was going like that,
and it was over, he says, well,
it's not that was pretty good.
He said, I would have never
thought you could have done that
when you walk through the door.
I said, Thank you. So I started,
wow, how am I supposed to look?
But, you know, I guess
presentation, the whole package
is necessary.
It's like being told, Well, hey,
you know, I didn't realize you
were this popular with the
audience. People. You did that.
So back headed compliments, yes
and I reminded him of that
at one time. He said, I said
that to you. I said, Yeah, I
said, I thought it was
hilarious, but he was great guy.
And Byron was great. He is this
great voice. And I told Byron, I
said, you know, I wish I was as
consistently good as you are,
because you can go in the
studio, drop sound at the drop
of the hat, and sound great. I
said, I may sound great one day
and lousy, right?
The consistency is tough. It
really is tough, yeah, and that
is what separates, you know, the
Class A Voice Over people from,
you know, yeah, poor people like
me, like me, Class G,
I got to the point where I lost
my range. This was like 1616
years Whoa, there we go. 16
years
ago. Ty Garth Brooks, yeah,
but I really got concerned. I
was called in to do a commercial
at Audio Productions. And when I
went up there, I just thought,
Man, I hope they want a higher
range. And I asked the engineer,
I said, Do you know what what
they're looking for? And so they
love that very first cut on your
demon. I thought, oh, boy, I'm
screwed. And I told the guy said
I tried to call you because I
don't think I can do this. And
that was just horrible, horrible
feeling. Yeah, I can imagine.
Well, let's give it a try. So I
went and I just couldn't get
down. And he said, Well, yeah,
yeah, you're right.
What was what was the like, the
physical? You remember what the
mentality was, because I've been
in that situation. Hey, you
know, on your demo, I want you
to do this, and you go back and
listen to it, and you're like,
you know, probably should change
that out. I did take it off.
But, I mean, you remember, like,
the I always have to get, like,
into a physicality mindset,
like, lay on the floor and,
like, relax the diaphragm, you
know, kind of do, like, those
types of exercises which would
help my register get back down
where it was, because my balls
dropped about nine years ago, I
was always, like, mid range, and
all of A sudden I could, you
know, do borderline movie
trailers all of a sudden.
So, wow, I know I feel it. I
feel the pain. I actually ended
up going to the Vanderbilt voice
clinic. Oh, really. And they
helped me tremendously. I mean,
they did a lot of weird things.
One of the things I wasn't crazy
about was a hope I don't get
gross here, but they had to run
a camera down my throat here,
down my throat, and they had a
video. They were videotaping it,
and had me to do and they say,
you want to look at I said, No,
no, maybe later. No, that's your
job, yeah. And so they did that
to make sure that there wasn't
anything serious down there,
yeah. And so when I was talking
to the the guy that helped me
get back the therapist, I would
go and see him once a week, and
we'd go through exercises. And I
asked him, Well, what, what
could be wrong? He says, Well,
your voice is worn out. Said,
you you've gotten old. And I
thought, you mean I can't get
back? He says, Well, maybe, but
they did run me through some
exercises, and I did manage to
get to the point where I could
could do it again, but that was
really frightening.
Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, you
know, you hear a lot of vocal,
you know, singers that go
through that. I mean, nodes.
Elton John had that, you know,
when he recorded that live album
in Australia, his voice was
shredded, and he had had the
notes so you didn't have any
surgery or anything you were
able to therapeutically resolve,
oh,
yeah, yeah. They were little
exercises. And this sounds
crazy, but you'd get a glass of
water with a straw and blow into
that, making bubbles
interesting, or go, yeah, which
is really crazy, almost like
priestess people
do some crazy things, yeah, and
so he actually described, think
of curly doing, you know, like
that, and just do it was kind of
like on the odd couple Felix
would do that. That's,
that's the thing for me, is
like, it's put, you know, talk
about getting gross. It's post
nasal drip, yeah? Oh my gosh.
That's why I got, you know, the
nose spray behind
one of the things they said is,
drink water, yeah, drink water.
Drink water. Drink water. Green
apples. Green apples.
Yeah, and lay off alcohol,
caffeine, not nicotine, yeah,
not beneficial to one's throat.
I've always heard whiskey does a
good job to your throat, though.
Oh, really, yeah, I'm serious,
yeah, yeah. It's like supposed
to be actually, not bad for the
voice. That's why a lot
of my voice was better when I
drank.
I mean, I. Them, at least you
thought
it was your
was there kind of like a moment
in your mind where you said,
Well, how can I take what I have
and just pivot a little bit and
capitalize? That's what I've had
to do, like, all of a sudden,
I've had like a rasp sneak into
my voice, where it's like a bill
like a bill clinton kind of
thing, like this, where, where?
Sometimes it does. It's a good
sound, you know, it's a good
down home. I always used to do
the ACE true value up there.
And, you know, Harpeth, true
value. And I would always read
the commercials with that little
bit of rasp, yeah. And it was,
they just loved it, you know, it
was like it just worked.
Always did, especially there was
one guy that got me out of doing
the radio thing. Was a guy named
Charlie pro Sykes. He had a
company called Charlie and
friends. He was out of Texas,
worked at Texas radio for years,
and he and his family came in
and had a very successful
company, the Charlie and
friends, and he had his own
studio. And I remember going in,
and I tried my regular delivery,
and he said, I don't want that,
since I want little higher range
and just just forget about
radio. And so I did that, and it
was more almost like the guy did
with a name like Smuckers. It
has to be good. I remember that,
yeah, yeah, Mason Adams. Mason
Adams, yeah, and so, so I
started a little higher range,
like that. And now, you know,
and that really took a load off
of the old vocal chords.
Yeah, I can imagine now, you did
a lot of spots, of course, in
radio over the years. But when
did you feel like you really,
you know you're sag AFTRA, so
you've done some major, major
voiceover work. What was the one
spot, or client, or what have
you where you just really felt
like you had broken through and
and were really, really proud of
of what you had accomplished.
I'll have to give the credit to
my old friend Milton Blackford.
You ever heard of Milton? Milton
worked in ENR in radio, worked
for United Artists at the time,
and also was in a group called
the glass hammer, which recorded
for Warner Brothers rock. He
was, you know, pop and of
course, Milton has written a lot
of country songs. He's one of
the most talented guys I know.
And he also dabbled in
advertising. Had very creative
mind. Milton was the guy who
wrote me and my RC. Oh, wow.
BMI, RC, well, I still in touch
with Milton. I got out of touch
with him for 20 years. But
anyway, one of the largest
commercials I got was not by
audition, but by association of
knowing the producer over the
years. And it wasn't like, Oh,
I'm going to hire you because
you're a friend. It was that he
knew I could do this particular
thing and he didn't have to
audition. So I went in to do
McDonald's, and we would do
maybe three,
three sessions a month, and
maybe three to four spots per
session. Now, not only got paid
for the voiceover for radio, but
they used it on television.
Which I got paid again? You
know? Which was great. I did 46
of those commercials for over a
year. Wow. And thank goodness
for Milton, he got me out of
debt. I bought my first condo. I
my car was paid off, and made it
possible for me to fly to China
to beat my love of my life,
which I'm married to now, yeah,
going on 22 years being married,
and so it hadn't been for
Milton. A lot of things that
happened to me over the last 20
years would have never happened.
Wow, that's that is sweet, yeah.
But I had talked to Milton every
once in a while. He lives down
in Spring Hill, down in this
area, and he's like, 82 and
talking to him on the phone is
like talking to Milton 30 years
ago. I mean, it's, he's still
Milton, yeah, and he still has
enthusiasm, still writing songs,
I mean, beautiful stuff. And so
I have to credit Milton for
really, bless his heart for
helping me out for my life. Oh,
yeah, for the last 22 years.
Well, that's, that is. That's
really great. Well, Benny, I
tell you, man, it's, it's
wonderful to see you. You know,
we met many, many years ago.
We've kept in touch all these
years. And as I say, I've
always. Really admired and
really looked up to the to what
all you've done, you know, on
air, voiceover stuff again, man,
it's, it's great to just kind of
document what you know, what all
you've done in the some stories
about who you've met. That's one
of the things that we kind of
value with the podcast. We, we
talked to a lot of folks that
are, you know, in radio and
music, songwriters and whatnot,
and we kind of take seriously
documenting a lot of this stuff,
and our listeners, our viewers,
they comment that very thing,
that it's so great that you guys
are are documenting and getting
on tape, for lack of a better
term, these these stories and
folks like you to tell us about
the good old days.
They don't circle the drain,
yeah,
and it seems like we all have a
connection somehow, somewhere,
like I would listen to you with
Phil Valentine and Johnny B it
didn't dawn on me that you were
Johnny Bozeman, yeah, which I
knew your sister, Janet
for years. Yeah. A lot of
people, yeah,
you know. And I always thought a
lot of Janet, she was great on
the air. I What did she do now,
after radio? Did she work at
MCA, CMA,
CMA and she also worked at Sony,
okay? And then she became a
publicist, yes, publicist, okay.
And now she's living in, of all
places, Alabama.
Now, when did you come to town?
I came to town in 7777 Yeah.
Now your dad bought a radio
station, the F we know, we know,
yeah. He also put an FM on,
yeah.
He did. JR Yeah. Wjrb was the
am, I'm trying to think what the
WJ, kz, kz country was, which is
now 100 lightning, 100 Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
So I visited Janet one time on
16th Avenue. And what's now the
curb? Well, we
see I was probably there, yeah,
they kept me from Yeah.
But then, you know, when I met
you at the luncheons thing with
Jerry, yeah, oh, I think I know
you.
Well, you know, I feel really
weird going because they're
they're called legends lunches.
Well, and these guys are
legends. What am I? You know,
Phil Valentine's butt boy.
Now that's my title.
I was Phil Valentine's butt boy.
But we have a lot of fun at
those lunches. Oh yeah, we do,
yeah, and it's great to see see
all those you need to be. Thank
you. You do.
You're a legend. Oh, good grief.
Well, Benny again, man, thank
you so much for for making your
way to us. It's been a real
treat to see you and hear some
of your amazing story and
amazing career.
Well, thank you. Some somebody
said, you know, you should write
a book. And I thought it would
be a book of useless information
if I wrote a book.
I don't know about that, but I
know he should. Yeah, I
gotta, I gotta say, though,
coming up in I would say the
golden age of radio and
voiceover and everything, and we
see what's happening. You know,
radio just about has, you know,
the second to last nail being
drilled into the coffin. Voice
Over is being affected all
things the creative are being
affected by AI, what's your
take, and what's what you think
of what might be a solution for
radio moving forward?
Oh, my goodness, I wish I could
come up with one. I could save
the world. But I am a little
concerned that that AI, as far
as voice over work might get too
popular, because it is
inexpensive. You know, you can,
you can hire a really good voice
for nothing and but the
creativity of of of AI is not
there yet. As far as little
nuances
humanity, I'll give you a
really quick example. I know, I
know need to close this out, but
I heard television a certain
commercial, and the guy that was
doing that on camera, he was
checking off how much he wanted
this particular product, and he
says, I'll take 100 milligrams.
Thank you very much. And then
they replaced him with AI, this
particular voice, and he does
the same read. He says, I'll
take 100 milligrams. Thank you
very much. There was no emphasis
there, right? And so those
little nuances, those little
things, thank goodness, have not
taken over yet, but they have
done an amazing job. Of, of
creating a voice, but how do you
direct that? I mean, how do you
key in on a computer while? I
want this lifted here, this down
here, not as much here, and a
little bit more there. I don't
know how you would do that.
So, and I am seeing, and we've
talked about this, I'm seeing
the younger generation doesn't
seem to be all that enamored
with AI
replace all their jobs Exactly.
They see the end.
They're looking for the
authenticity,
and they even like vinyl over,
you know, CDs or anything else,
downloads.
Yep, there's a lot of that.
Yeah. Well, Benny, thank you
again. And hey, you know,
hopefully we can get you back. I
know you got a lot more stories
that that you could share with
us.
Well, I've always been told I
was full of it. Yeah,
you fit right in. Well, I really
am honored to be here.
Well, again, it's great that we
could finally get you here. I
know we've tried to get our
schedules together, and it
finally, finally worked out.
Well, Johnny B, you normally
allow me to go through where all
this, the the podcast, all the
platforms can be found. I'll let
you do it. Wow.
Well, you can find us on Apple
podcasts. You look at anywhere
podcasts are available, you'll
find circling the drain. You can
also check out circling the
drain.net, you can find a lot of
cool stuff there, including a
lot of cool T shirts, caps. That
is correct even to see pictures
of the three of us there, which
will just amaze families
everywhere. And on top of that,
you can check out our YouTube
channel as well, right?
Like and Subscribe. So we hope
you'll do all that, and we also
hope you'll check in again with
us on the next episode of
circling the drain.
All right. Well, thank you.