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Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And with me again today is lieutenant colonel Chris Bray, commanding officer of four two seven Special Operations Aviation Squadron. Chris, thank you for being here once again today, and welcome back to the show.
Chris:Yeah. Thanks, Brian. Looking forward to, continuing our discussion.
Bryan:Me too. Earlier, we covered Chris's journey from joining the Canadian Armed Forces to flying the Griffin with four two seven to ultimately taking command of the squadron. In this part, we're going to focus on special operations aviation itself, how it's evolved in Canada, and what makes four two seven SOAS unique. When we spoke before this interview, you mentioned that Chris McKenna did a great job in episodes 46 to 48 of explaining the soft aviation evolution prior to 2011. Where does the story go from there?
Chris:Yeah. So I think I'll rewind slightly to 2006 when KENSOFCOM was, kind of ultimately formed. You know, we went from supporting a single soft unit to supporting an entire command, which we touched on. So the demand for soft aviation, started to grow beyond the capacity of a single subunit. So for a number of years, we attempted to solve this by having a domestic capability and an out of area capability.
Chris:But as we discussed, this was not sustainable, and we needed the whole unit to be trained to the same highest, readiness standard. So that's really where things started to evolve, around 2011 was kind of that convergence towards a unit capability and not just subsets of capabilities within 04/27.
Bryan:How do you think the culture changed as you went from a divided series of silos to more of a amalgamated approach?
Chris:Yeah. So I think the shift primarily started on the capability side, first and then followed by structure and culture. And like we mentioned, we had, a, b, and c flight at the time, which eventually got reorganized to the SOA structure that we have today. But we really started with the capability development back in the early twenty tens. And what that meant was giving that baseline skill set to all the air crew, specifically insert and extract capabilities.
Chris:So as you can see, in many places or sources around the Internet, we do that by conducting fast rope, repel, low hover, land on inserts, much like a lot of our partners. But we needed to create that baseline skill set, across the unit. You know, I like to say that that is the reason we exist. The fact that we can insert our force packages on time, on target, in synchronization in such a deliberate and precise way. That's really what kind of sets us apart.
Chris:So we identified that that was the primary skill set that the entire unit needed to achieve followed by kind of like secondary skill sets such as, you know, contingency fires and other capabilities like that. So we started down that route where we started providing training to the whole unit to build that kind of a baseline. And then from there, we started looking at the structure and culture, of the unit as well. We had a vision where the operational subunits were pretty much identical and self contained to, conduct operations so that when, you know, one of the SOAs is providing support, it should look and feel almost identical to the other SOA. So it took time to get there, but essentially, that was the, vision from the early twenty tens to where we are today.
Bryan:And that was basically being driven by the fact that the previous model was essentially unsustainable?
Chris:Yeah. And like I said, as the command grew, so did our ability to provide those effects. And really what it kind of looked like in practice, it really centralized the c two at the unit, the command and control, but it kept the ability of the subunits to conduct decentralized planning and execution of their activities. And so, really, it was just leveling the bubble between one and two SOA to where they are today, where each subunit is, identical in structure and capability. And this was driven by, you know, the commanding officers at the time, where, you know, they had the foresight to kinda see that the previous model that we had was not fit for purpose to support kind of kansoffcom as a whole.
Bryan:Mhmm. So with this converging the subunits in four q seven and leveling the playing field between them, how did that change how the squadron operates?
Chris:Yeah. So like I mentioned, it centralized the command and control where, now the commanding officer in the unit operations cell conducted the kind of tasking analysis and the operational planning at the unit level, and it no longer resided within the subunits. So it really elevated to a a unit level kind of process than just residing within the, the subunits themselves. And this this enabled the commanding officer to prioritize, you know, tasks, allocate resources to ensure that we're meeting the, higher commander's intent, which was, believe it or not, back then, a bit, of a challenge where, you know, b flight had the majority of resources, assigned to it just simply because of the mission and mandates that it had. So that proposed a bit of challenge or post challenges to the commanding officer because how do you still give resources and support to the other subunits when, one of the other subunits is, you know, kind of siphoning all the all the squadron output.
Bryan:Yeah. And, I mean, it sounds like before a lot of the pace and planning was dictated by the subunits, which is really challenging then to sort of track who needs what and what's happening when and if it's a little more centralized and it's planning well, as you mentioned, still maintaining the flexibility that's more ideal for sure.
Chris:Yeah. And there there were certainly a lot of challenges, you know, over the last ten to fifteen years, on this path that we've been on. You know, aside from the mountain of FG that we had to climb.
Bryan:A term that you'll hear fairly often in these interviews is FE or FG, and I don't think we've ever explained them. FE stands for forced employment and is basically when you fly for operations, whereas FG is forced generation and is when you fly for training.
Chris:And all the experience sharing that had to happen as well. Like I mentioned, you had a flight who had all the expeditionary experience, all the out of area, and sharing that, across b flight. And then where b flight had the responsibility of sharing that the flying aspect of it, of flying the aircraft to its limits and not beyond and flying those profiles that, historically only resided within a subunit. So there was a lot of convergence that had to happen where, you know, you had all the tactical expertise and from like an edit area context residing in one subunit, but the hands and feet expertise residing in another.
Bryan:I don't know if this is universal or a military thing, but from my experience, we can be a bit change resistant, which is kind of funny because obviously, like, adaptability and flexibility are paramount. But we like to do things how we do them. Was there immediate buy in within the unit when it came to changing how things go, or were there people who are like, well, you know, why are we doing this? This has always worked for us. I find you you get that a fair bit.
Bryan:So you were in this organization throughout these changes. So what did you experience?
Chris:Yeah. I think you would get different, responses depending on who you are interviewing.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:But, you know, from my perspective, there certainly were challenges. And I think many of the people of my vintage who are still at the unit right now would agree. But most of them were on the cultural, front of things where we we developed, very specific processes on how to approach a problem, how do we force generate? How do we support, you know, our primary customers? There were very different approaches on how to do that.
Chris:So there there certainly was resistance to that. But I think when you look at the overall vision of what had to happen, it made sense. And in retrospect, like, even even people who kind of disagreed with the approach could all agree on the vision Mhmm. And where we are today is because of those hard decisions that had to be made back then. And, you know, the the two subunits really coming together to, you know, bring that vision to life.
Chris:And I think a big turning point for us is when we created, SOTAC. And I know we'll talk about that later on, but our special operations tactical aviation course, that is where we started to see that we were developing the SOA tactical aviator, and that we were instilling, like, a soft aviation culture, not a subunit culture. Mhmm. Because all these students, they would, you know, go through the, hardship of that course because it is a very challenging course, but they would live through that course together, developing all those skill sets and, you know, they build those bonds. So when they do get assigned to their operational flight, they they maintain those relationships.
Chris:So I found once we created that course, it really did break down some of those cultural barriers that, historically existed.
Bryan:Yeah. It's really cool because it sort of sounds like with the addition of that course and some of the cultural changes you've made, that it's almost a shift from basically tack hell aviators being employed in special operations aviation to special operations aviators.
Chris:Yeah. And it was really a two way street, like like you just said. And there was special operations, you know, aviators from a a flying perspective that had a big lesson to learn in terms of how do you bring this capability, and apply it to an out of area context. Mhmm. So it was really a two way street, of learning that, had to happen.
Chris:And we've certainly leveled that bubble over the last, you know, ten, eleven years that we've been, conducting SOTAC. It's a it's a great program and it really delivers, you know, some of the the best aviators that we have in Canada
Bryan:are none. If you think about special forces around the world, you can think of a lot of famous groups. You can think of the Navy Seals. You can think of Delta Force. You can think of JTF two.
Bryan:So Canada made a name for itself in special operations with JTF two. Also, there's more history, of course, going back. But it seems to me that part of this journey that four two seven is on is sort of making a name for itself within the tactical aviation community, the special operations aviation community. What does that actually look like in practice?
Chris:Yeah. So back in the, mid twenty tens, we really needed that rebranding, I think. So now that we started to, you know, conduct kind of the same skill sets and we're really converging from a culture perspective, there was a rebranding that, had to happen. And this is where, you know, you started to see us leaning heavily into deploying, on any opportunity that would present itself all over the world. It was an extremely busy time for the unit, whether it was on exercises or operations, anything to get us out there to, you know, make that name for ourselves, but also to, build our capability.
Chris:We built some great partnerships with, with other allies, you know, the US one sixtieth, six aviation regiment, in Australia. But it was really dual purpose where it helped us kind of fact find, what capabilities we needed to develop to mature that vision of being, soft aviation professionals.
Bryan:Part of that was this and you've sort of discussed this, but the idea of no mission too small. How does that shape the culture of four two seven?
Chris:So that's interesting. That was really our philosophy that we had when, I was a detachment commander in Iraq. And the detachment I had was extremely good at this about going out there, making relationships, and solving problems. And what this meant was doing tasks that sometimes no one else really wanted to do, but we would do it quickly, professionally into an extremely high standard. And it's amazing how quickly your name gets around as problem solvers.
Chris:And this was due to our, small footprint, our flat organization, and our high readiness. We were simply just always ready to go. Mhmm. And that's not always the case, when you are deployed. And there are other aviation assets out there, But, you know, they may have a planning cycle that doesn't fit within what has to happen, right now.
Chris:Mhmm. And that was a good example of the detachment commander having, you know, enough authorities to employ their capability that quickly. So we very quickly in theater, made a name for ourselves as the go to when there was a problem to solve. And we we maintain a very busy pace over there. And it's amazing how a seemingly simple but last minute task can have strategic consequences.
Chris:There was a mission where we transported someone who just was having kind of a health related emergency, nonurgent, but they wanted to get them to a different place of care. Mhmm. And they wanted them transported by Hilo. We instantly said yes, and we are airborne, like, an hour later. And, we received huge acolytes and, and thanks from that country afterwards right from the very top, right from their chief of defense.
Chris:So it's it's amazing how a simple act of just being able to say yes can bring, you know, trust and credibility to an organization. So it doesn't always have to be some kinetic mission. It can be a very simple task. So it just goes back to no mission being too small. And that was a philosophy we had while we were deployed.
Chris:And our ops so that we had had there, and, I'll give, props to him online here. He knows who he is. He was great at going out there and building these relationships and selling our capability. And, it's it's amazing the things we did over there just by word-of-mouth. And, yeah, it was excellent.
Bryan:You just sort of develop, like, a reputation as the the go to unit for, hey. We need this done. I'll call the Canadians.
Chris:Absolutely. And because of the authorities that we had, we would fill roles that were, a little bit unconventional. So in a theater, there could be conventional assets, say, in support of the theater medevac. But let's say they hit certain weather criteria and they go black for, you know, a twenty four hour period. Well, we may have the flexibility due to our authorities and orders, you know, aviation orders that we still might be able to deliver a capability.
Chris:So we actually found ourselves filling a gap, in the theater that we didn't really expect. So we were really good at that finding work for ourselves on the fringes of supporting our customer and the mission that we had, but we like to be busy. And, by doing that, we made a great name for ourselves and brought a lot of credibility and trust within CanSoftcom.
Bryan:That's awesome. So a couple years ago, four two seven added a platform, which was the CE one forty five c Vigilance. That for listeners is a King Air equipped for intelligence surveillance reconnaissance work or ISR, which in the past for the Canadian forces was pretty much filled by either the Aurora or further back with UAVs in Afghanistan. How has adding this platform expanded your capabilities?
Chris:Yeah. So this was a missing piece in the soft aviation portfolio within CanSoftcom. So by having dedicated tactical ISR, it provides invaluable situational awareness, and data to, you know, the the helicopters, but also connects the kind of soldier on the ground to real time and relevant information, as well as feeding that information back to the headquarters. So we're really looking forward to maturing this capability. And, you know, anyone who's operated in a theater of operation knows that you can never have too much ISR.
Chris:It's usually something that's at a premium. So having a dedicated organic capability within CanSoftcom really provides kind of a a Team Canada option to support operations.
Bryan:Yeah. And just keeping more of those capabilities organic to your own organization instead of having to reach out and request support from whether it be other RCAF units or other countries. It just expands your capabilities.
Chris:Yeah. And it goes back to the culture piece as well is kind of expanding that traditional rotary wing culture to more of a a multiplatform culture as well. So as a commanding officer, that is a personal challenge for me is how do you now grow that capability to not just be rotary wing Mhmm. And to consider this new capability. So really exciting where, this platform is going to support KansoffCom and the, government of Canada.
Bryan:Yeah. And it's gonna be really interesting and a challenge, I would imagine, for certainly for yourself. You're a rotary wing guy. Probably the next few COs for sure will be rotary wing people until maybe eventually the King Air folks have been around for long enough that you start getting some of them seeding into it too. It'll be interesting to see, You'll have to learn, you know, how do I effectively employ this asset.
Bryan:Right? Like, you get this all the time when you work in anti submarine warfare, when you start working, like, usually you train and it's the Aurora. And sometimes you work with a sea king and maybe a ship. And then you go to a big exercise and you're working with ships who are only used to working with their own helicopter and they have no idea how to employ a fixed wing ASW platform. You know, you have to learn how to efficiently and effectively use these assets in the way that they're meant to be used.
Bryan:So there's definitely gonna be some learning and evolution taking place.
Chris:Yeah. And, you know, it's getting our existing rotary wing crews bilingual as well and same as the ISR crews getting them speaking rotary wing language. Mhmm. So that's the path we're on now. And, they're doing excellent.
Chris:And we're, yeah, really looking forward to seeing, where this matures to. It's really exciting to have that additional layer of capability within the command right now.
Bryan:I was out in Comox last year with the SAR folks doing a series on the Kingfisher, and they're going through that too right now. Because there's been that capability gap to an extent of fixed wing SAR, their Cormorant folks are used to operating as the only asset. So now they're kind of going through a whole relearning process of like, how do we effectively work together and employ each other to our best strengths?
Chris:Yeah. And, we talk about, you know, that path to professionalizing soft aviation, and it's kind of it kinda never ends really. Four two seven just a couple of years ago, we were, well, a single unit with a single capability. But now, you know, we're multiple capabilities geographically dislocated. And, you know, we're one of the few aviation units in CAF that, have that kind of lay down and capability at the unit level.
Bryan:Let's get into some of what makes four two seven SOAS unique within the RCAF and and within soft aviation. Compared to allied soft aviation units, what makes four two seven different?
Chris:I think first off, acknowledging that not all countries who have soft have dedicated inorganic soft aviation. So we're we're special simply because of that. That CanSoftcom has dedicated aviation assets, both rotary wing and fixed wing. So, a lot of countries that do have soft aviation may only have one type of platform, but we're fortunate enough to have both right now. And another aspect of it is the fact that everyone is screened and selected for the job, which is unique as well.
Chris:A lot of soft aviation organizations across the world, they still get pushed people from the conventional side. So they don't have a full screening process for absolutely everybody. Mhmm. So we're extremely fortunate to have that. And it ensures that we're getting people who are, you know, extremely passionate about the mission to, learning, evolving capabilities, and kind of bringing their best self to the table.
Chris:So, like, broadly, they're kind of some big differences. But dialing in specifically to 427, SOTAC is a big unique course that we have when we look at the scale and scope of it. So most soft aviation with our partners, they do have some, like, onboard training program to teach those soft aviation skill sets. But the fact that we have such a robust and mature course, right now is quite unique. So the fact that all the air crew who do this course, so to review that's pilots, flight engineers, door gunners, and ace ops as the sensor operators in vigilance.
Chris:They all do this course. They do all aspects of it. They're kind of graded against all the same POs.
Bryan:A PO is a performance objective, and it's an area of competence that needs to be achieved during training.
Chris:And they get the same course code at the end. So we're really fortunate to have this training that, provides mission planning, ground tactics, professional development, a very robust planning phase, and then kind of a a culmination exercise that pulls it all together so that they're ready for immediate employment after that course. So once you graduate SOTAC, you are ready to hold high readiness. Another thing that kind of makes us different, again is how flat we are and how we delegate authorities to the lowest reasonable level. I speak to a lot of my colleagues from other, nations with soft aviation, and, we really do push authorities to the lowest reasonable level, which comes with a lot of responsibility, but it keeps us extremely agile.
Chris:So when I talk to a lot of our partners, they are amazed at, you know, the the authorities that I have as a commanding officer to employ our capability. So we're extremely fortunate there.
Bryan:Yeah. We've talked in an earlier episode about the flatness of the organization in terms of very few levels above you. It also strikes me as you talk about this that you're also maintaining a flatness within the actual squadron itself in terms of trying to minimize sort of the idea of the command team that's only at a high level dealing with administrative and high level planning and disconnected from the everyday.
Chris:Yeah. And, like I mentioned, the the subunits have everything they need to plan and conduct operations as long as it's in line with, kind of the overall intent. So we're really fortunate there as well. So they don't have to pull a lot of resources from the unit at large to have capability. They they have everything they need within their organization to go and conduct operations.
Bryan:Yeah. And historically, that's something that has made Canada's military different and successful. Right? It's empowering more junior folks to make decisions and take initiative and pursue success.
Chris:Yeah. And, you know, I think we're doing things right when organizations that we historically mimicked in some regards are now actually engaging us asking, hey, how did you develop that capability and asking us to partake in our training events? So we mirrored a lot of what SOTAC is, off of what the one sixtieth does for their training. And now that we come back together, you know, a decade later and we kinda compare, you know, there's there's elements of what we do that they're quite envious of, which is, you know, kind of a great form of flattery, but also a good confirmation that we develop things in a very kind of mature and professional way.
Bryan:You're definitely doing things right when basically your mentors are coming to you to learn from you. That's pretty cool.
Chris:Yeah. And, like, we'll never replicate the scale, of, you know, an organization like the one sixtieth. No. But there's certain things that we we can do to make us on a smaller scale just as professional, and bring those strategic effects. And, really, that's what SOTAC delivers.
Chris:It's a it's an amazing course.
Bryan:Something that is really important in all aspects of aviation is the people supporting the mission. Who are the soft professionals supporting the mission that people might not think about?
Chris:So while we all have unique roles, in cansoftcom to enable the mission, we're all professionals at what we do, enabled by world class members of CAF. So we draw on the CAF to fill positions and to deliver capability within CANsoftCom. But from a soft aviation perspective, you know, I have to give a shout out to, you know, our maintainers who routinely deliver a 100% serviceability of our fleet, of the available fleet. Our logistics who can coordinate and deliver fuel in the most austere conditions. Our signalers who are, extremely creative and adaptable people to overcome some limitations that we have with the platforms we have in our ops team, who enables all aspects of a mission.
Chris:So we're we're extremely fortunate to have these soft professionals, within four two seven in cansoftcom. So really that that term is just acknowledging the fact that while we all have different roles within the mission, we're all ultimately, professionals within this command.
Bryan:And it's interesting you mentioned the signalers. I always think that they're basically performing some level of witchcraft when it comes to you know, one thing that surprised me once I got involved in the military was, like, sometimes it's literally the biggest challenge just to make sure like that the air force can call the army on the radio or vice versa or to get your comms working with other nations or to get crypto working, which is like for listeners is is basically just like the secure communications. That's a super challenging field.
Chris:Absolutely. And having good signaler support is something you can't kind of underestimate because those comms challenges between different air platforms and air to ground, those problems will always exist. Comms challenges are, you know, one of the greatest things that we have to kind of overcome. And, having those professionals within kansoffcom and within four 27, They're extremely important and are a part of kind of all our operations to make sure that we're able to communicate with each other and conduct those missions.
Bryan:Oh, yeah. Secure comms are a a linchpin of modern military operations. How critical is the relationship with ground forces to mission success? We talk a lot about the aviators taking part in these missions. What about the ground forces?
Chris:Yeah. So this goes back to the culture part. So at four two seven, we pride ourselves on, providing effects, the effects being asked, of us. We like to minimize the process to accessing, aviation, and we practice the integration constantly with our ground units. So trust is everything in this organization.
Chris:And we take that very seriously. And we need to be, you know, reliable, accurate, relevant, on time, on target, and also have that cultural alignment as well. So, as a command, all the units have a certain level of cultural alignment as well around kind of those core kind of, beliefs, and how we interact with each other. So having good relationships is extremely important. And I think that's what makes us so effective in CanSoftcom is how strong the relationships are between all the units.
Chris:And I think it builds that level of trust on operations between the ground forces and the air crew as well.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:That mutual trust. And that is one of the big benefits of, you know, being a small command relatively is the fact that, you know, the majority of the air crew know the majority of the ground crew as well. Mhmm. And knowing, you know, the people going out there to conduct operations. So they're not just, you know, a name on the manifest.
Chris:They actually know them by name. Mhmm. And they, have that personal relationship with them.
Bryan:Yeah. It reminds me of an early episode when I was talking with Pete Musters, who is a tach hell guy. And, he was talking about how much he enjoyed the close relationship with the army and like really knowing who the customer was and what they need and the trust between those groups. Sounds very similar to within, you know, four two seven and the customers they may be working with, you know, various units within Kansoffcom. Obviously, that trust, especially given like the sensitive nature of certain missions and some of the risks and threats that may be encountered would be really, really critical to giving everybody that sense of confidence in accomplishing the mission.
Chris:Yeah. And it it really goes back to, you know, that trust piece at all levels, not just trust between, you know, the ground force in the air crew, but trust as an organization. The fact that we we all support each other in that way.
Bryan:Yeah. Like they know, okay, we're working with four two seven. We're good to go. Yeah. So we've talked a lot here about the traits you're looking for, the culture and identity within the unit in terms of, professional force.
Bryan:How do you maintain standards in such a high performance environment?
Chris:We have a dedicated standards and training subunit, and as well as a a set. So a standards evaluation team that consistently monitor the standard. But kind of in practice, we have a really good culture of speaking up. If something doesn't look right or sound right, everyone has a voice. It doesn't matter who you are in the crew or in the maintenance team.
Chris:We we all have a voice. And, and that even goes for me. There's been many times where, you know, I I thought what, kinda good looks like, but I was proposed another solution or a better way of doing things, and you have to be open to that. So I think, maintaining the standard not only applies to, you know, aircrew standards. It also applies to just, you know, the people that you work with.
Chris:And I think it it's about creating that culture of, kind of openness and people have a voice. But specifically on the flying standard side of things, you know, we have a wide, array of skill sets that we have to maintain and, maintain currency on
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:Which which is a big demand on the unit to ensure that those standards are held to an extremely high standard. We we heavily rely on aircraft commanders to mentor the first officers, and, our flight engineers are absolutely amazing with tons of experience. And they're in parallel mentoring and developing the junior flight engineers. How we, you know, kind of formally, maintain the standard is not unlike anywhere else in the RCAF. You know, the air crew have annual, you know, APCs, your proficiency check to make sure.
Chris:But those APCs tend to be fairly ruthless, to be honest. They're quite in-depth, a very robust planning session
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:Where you're evaluated on how did you plan that mission. The execution of it is sometimes the easy part. It's we really ensure that, if you are developing a sound plan, that the execution should be relatively straightforward. So the the planning of the mission is just as important as how did you execute it.
Bryan:Yeah. And it makes sense that you guys would have to have such a strong focus on standards. The wider the capability set, the more challenging it is to remain current even, much less to maintain a high level of proficiency. So I'm not surprised to hear that that takes up a lot of your resources. On the Aurora, between anti submarine warfare, anti surface warfare, search and rescue, overland tactics, it's a lot of stuff to stay on top of.
Bryan:So the more you do, the more time you have to spend keeping it all sharp.
Chris:Yeah. And, you know, I think as a calf, we have to to ensure that we're not over training as well. Mhmm. And how do we not provide too much formalized training and what can be done through, you know, experience as well. Mhmm.
Chris:So I think we're all taking a look at that now to making sure all our training plans, are what they need to be to deliver that formalized training through, you know, instructor pilots and, you know, instructor flight engineers. But what what can be reasonably be done by, you know, an aircraft commander in the cockpit on a just a normal training flight?
Bryan:We had Jamie Spicer Blanchett on the show a couple weeks ago. And we talked a little bit about that kind of what new approaches can we take because a big part of the issue we face right now is bottlenecks and training. So, you know, how can we improve the efficiency and the throughput? And I think that what you're talking about is probably critical to that.
Chris:Yeah. Our training model has to be, you know, survivable and enduring.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:If you know, if you put too much pressure on it and it breaks, well, it's not a sustainable model. But we we've been looking at that extremely closely. Yeah.
Bryan:Part of what we mentioned a few times is that four two seven is now an organic part of cansoftcom, and it's probably important to understand the significance of this and what that means. So, basically, how CanSoftcom fits into the organization as well as the RCAF. This was achieved by updating the TOCA or transfer of command authority between the RCAF and CansoftCom. What does this actually mean in practical terms?
Chris:So, really, it's an evolution of the last twenty years and sets a new aim mark for the next twenty years. So the original transfer of command was written back in 2006 and probably conceived a little bit before that. But, really, that was the terms and conditions by which Cansoftcom would resource and employ four two seven squadron. That document was not updated for nineteen years, and we took the time to rewrite that last year. And it's extremely ambitious, but considering the last TOCA took nineteen years to kind of see to the end, my goal was to write something that set a new a mark for what soft aviation and four two seven should look like.
Chris:So we're just in the middle of, rolling all that out and making sure certain elements get actioned in the near term, but there are certain elements of it that'll take more analysis, as well. But, really, it further solidifies four two seven as an organic KansoffCom unit, and it gives commander KansoffCom the authorities to enable and resource the unit. And I think that's what was missing from the previous transfer of command was just those black and white authorities to the commander to resource the unit. Because sometimes we found ourselves in the space where whose responsibility was it to, you know, give us growth, right, within the unit. Is it a is it a can soft calm or an RCF responsibility?
Chris:And that's just one of the examples that, you know, this new transfer of command sets out clearly that we are an organic kansoffcom unit. There are certain things we have to go back to the RCAF for for proper process and oversight. But broadly, everything else is up to kantsoftcom. So that was a huge success for us, and we're really looking forward to implement that new transfer of command. But we still receive amazing support from the RCAF, but, we're excited about implementing and iterating on this new document.
Bryan:Now this would be the formalization of four two seven being an organic part of cansoftcom. Is that right?
Chris:That is correct. So it it outlines how we'll be resourced by CanSoftcom, how we'll be employed, force developed, force generated, but also clearly outlines what items we will go back to the RCAF for, such as, you know, flight safety, airworthiness, doctrine, training, and standards. That's not to say they'll be developed by the RCAF. Things like training and standards or doctrine is a better example.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:We we may write our own doctrine, but it just needs to be, you know, vetted and approved by the RCAF just to make sure that the framework of it is in alignment with the proper employment of aviation.
Bryan:Yeah. Basically, they're maintaining a certain level of oversight to make sure everything is on broad strokes making sense, but you guys have much more freedom now to formally be part of Special Operations Aviation.
Chris:That's exactly it. Yeah.
Bryan:So the aircrew or the pilot in this case goes through SOTAC, which as we said is Special Operations Tactical Aviation course, and we're gonna dive in-depth into that in the next episode. We talked about establishing a professional culture and high performance. Once this pilot is qualified, what does the career path look like in 04/27?
Chris:Yeah. So you'll be closely career managed within the soft aviation CAG.
Bryan:A CAG is a capability advisory group and is the body of expertise on each community. And it's also a group that basically we think of the pilots as belonging to when it comes to determining career management and postings.
Chris:And you go through that progression of, you know, six to eight years to get fully kind of qualified. So you'll kind of be a line pilot. Maybe that means you bounce between, you know, the subunits a little bit. But then after that, you know, you'll be expected to go conduct a a ground job or, you know, go to, a set role or a tough role. So with testing and evaluation
Bryan:Okay.
Chris:In soft aviation, we do have SOATEF. So there's lots of other external positions that we have to fill. So usually what that means in practice is that, you know, you get to be a line pilot for six to eight years, then either you'll go do a ground job, standard job, or testing and evaluation job. And then but you are already preprogrammed to come back after a certain period of time. So there that doesn't remain open ended.
Chris:And, we're getting really good now at mapping that out of what is a career path look like. But coming to cansoftcom, like I said, at least for, pilots and it mostly applies to flight engineers as well. It is a career choice. You'll be in this command broadly for, your entire career.
Bryan:It really sounds like a model that the RCAF at large could stand to adopt in terms of managing careers and creating well rounded pilots who are an asset to their community. It just seems like there's a very intentional process being applied here. The whole point where you said, you know, it's pre mapped when you're gonna come back to four two seven. Like we are giving you this time to be an asset for someone else but also to develop and then you come back to us. Like, I think that is a really great way to create a strong unit with really well rounded members.
Chris:And what I found, throughout my career is people don't mind change in going to do something else as long as they have visibility on what that could be or what are those options.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Chris:And I found we've had very good success over the last few years of having a culture where people understand that, you know, at some point, you know, you're gonna stop flying for a little bit. You're gonna go do this other thing, and then you're gonna come back, and you'll be better than when you left. You know? And that doesn't mean that you won't go back to the RCAF. There's lots of opportunity to say to go to OneCAD HQ, work in our soft aviation section within fleet readiness within OneCAD.
Chris:So that's a way to remain plugged in with soft aviation, but also get back to the RCAF as well. And that's extremely important to give that experience back and also bring it back to cansoftcom.
Bryan:Let's switch gears a bit and talk about some leadership stuff at the CO level. As the CO, how do you think about balancing risk and mission accomplishment?
Chris:Yeah. So we already talked about this a little bit, but specifically for me, I have to consider all plausible risks and how to mitigate them to the maximum, extent, either through formalized training like we talked about or through other risk mitigation measures on the actual, mission. But really no detail is too small, like, not to be discussed or considered. So I like to be involved in kind of those larger discussions when we look at, you know, risk. But it's also about pushing, you know, flying supervision at a an extremely low level or the lowest reasonable level, as well.
Chris:So I have to trust my flight commanders, even the supporting flight commanders, you know, for maintenance and logistics that they're managing risk and developing their their people. So that's how really I look at risk as well is I ensure that I'm directly engaged with risks that I think are important, but also I trust the people that work with me to manage the other risks that I deem are within their kind of expertise or within kind of their kind of span of control.
Bryan:The next question I was gonna ask you was about, basically, how do you lead people who are already highly skilled and experienced? I would imagine a lot of that process is similar revolving around trust.
Chris:It really comes down to listening to their perspectives, and you build trust when people feel like their perspective is valued. You know, I I listen to all my flight commanders. They're the they're experts in their fields. They're highly trained, motivated people. They understand their respective areas of expertise.
Chris:So I constantly listen to them and, you know, hopefully, they would agree. But there's been many occasions where, they've changed my mind on a certain topic because their perspective was better than mine, and it was more complete, as well. So I think that's extremely important is to listen to your people. But also it's to be seen doing the job with them to be an active participant. Like I said, going out there and still being a, you know, a flying CEO and being on the shop floor watching them do maintenance is extremely important.
Chris:And I I think that helps keep them motivated and also keeps them believing in the leadership as well.
Bryan:What would you say are the hardest decisions you've had to make in command so far?
Chris:Yeah. So I would say, mostly, it relates to people. And as a commanding officer, most of what you deal with centers around people. But it goes down to not being able to give people everything they want. You know, something may be a great opportunity and might be great for that person, but, sometimes you have to occasionally say no for, you know, valid reasons.
Chris:I think for me, those are harder decisions than making an operational decision because, you know, I really care for all the people that we have at the unit. I I know of, you know, the vast majority of people at the unit by their first names. So not being able to, you know, support them always, can be challenging, in dealing with the personal nexus of things. You know, we have hundreds of people that work at, four two seven, and, I find those composed they composed some of the biggest leadership challenges. Now another commanding officer may think the absolute opposite where, you know, making operational and tactical decisions may be some of the harder ones.
Chris:But I found some of the ones that kept me up at night were generally related to, people.
Bryan:Yeah. That makes sense. You know, watching some of my friends who have progressed into leadership positions, you know, me personally, I was always like, yeah. Like, approve the leave, approve the course, approve the special circumstances, whatever. But, like, I have friends who are great at balancing that, and that's obviously necessary.
Bryan:Right? Like, there has to be somebody somewhere who's willing to say, hang on. Like, I know this sounds amazing, but maybe there's another need you're not thinking of. And I can only imagine that, obviously, it's much harder to be the person who has to say, hang on a sec, than the person who's going, yeah, let's fire that up.
Chris:Yeah. And we have such amazing people and their their supervision, like their supervisors, are looking out for them a 100%. But, you know, there there is that odd time where, you know, unfortunately, you have to say no. And, sometimes you you take that home and it's like, man, I really wish I could have supported, you know, my member that way. Mhmm.
Chris:But, yeah, that's not always the case.
Bryan:Okay, Chris. That is gonna wrap up our chat for today. It was super interesting to get a peek into the world of four two seven and cansoftcom, and I'm really looking forward to discussing in-depth the SOTAC course in the next episode. That's the special operations tactical aviation course. Thank you so much for being here today, and we will talk to you on the next one.
Chris:Yeah. Thank you, Brian. Thank you for having me.
Bryan:Okay. That wraps up part two of three of our discussion on special operations aviation in Canada and 04/27 with the CO of four two seven, lieutenant colonel Chris Bray. Tune in next week as we go into an in-depth discussion on SOTAC, the special operations tactical aviation course. It's gonna be a super interesting discussion about the training that air crew go through in 04/27 before they start flying missions. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show?
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Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four.
Bryan:Shutting down all four engines.