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Navigating the world of academia after your PhD can feel overwhelming, exciting, and a little bit secretive. Confessions of an Early Career Researcher is a candid, honest, and inspiring podcast for Early Career Researchers (ECRs) at every stage of their journey.
In each episode, host Dr Leonie Smith sits down with scholars at varying stages of their careers to share personal stories, practical insights, and the realities of building a life in (and sometimes beyond) academia.
From funding applications and precarious contracts, to imposter syndrome and mentorship, no topic is off limits. Tune in as we unpack your new academia survival guide – Confessions of an ECR is now available on all podcasting platforms.
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Welcome to Confessions of an Early Career Researcher, the show where we deep dive into the journeys, challenges and successes of ECRs. Whether you've just begun navigating the early stages of your research career or you're a seasoned ECR looking to upskill, this is the podcast for you. Join us as we speak with ECRs at varying stages of their careers to discuss their experiences and unpack their academia survival tips. I'm your host Leonie Smith, a philosopher and lecturer at Lancaster University. Today's episode is all about how to be well and thrive as an ECR. So a very salient topic, probably at the moment, for most of the people listening to this podcast, how to be well as an ECR. So I'd like to first of all just welcome my guests in this and Maddie and start by maybe asking you to introduce yourselves, who you are, where you are, what you're doing, and we'll take it from there. So maybe I'll start by asking you, Maddie,
Hi, yeah, of course. Hi. I'm Maddie Hewitson. I'm a Leverhulme Early Career Fellow at the University of Birmingham, and I specialise in British art history, mainly in the 19th century,
Fantastic, and Inés?
Hi, my name is Inés. I am a writer and a creative writing lecturer also at Lancaster. I love writing all things speculative.
All things speculative, sounds really interesting. So Inés, you're at Lancaster now, obviously an ECR. What are some of the challenges you would say that you have either faced in getting to the point that you're at or maybe in the situation you're in at the moment?
Yeah, I think one of my main challenges was during my PhD, actually suffering from burnout, which I think should be talked about way more in academia. If you don't know what it is, it's basically when you start feeling just so tired and so overwhelmed by all the responsibilities, and you feel like you're not able to reach the standards that probably you've set to yourself.
I mean, very common, right? For ECRs, yeah, it's this kind of career where everything depends on your brain and to watch what you're doing, and the standards can be quite hard to navigate, can't they?
Yes, and I think it's also mainly how precarious it is. You know, even as a PhD, I could already see that I had funding, but I still had to have other jobs on the side to survive. That was a really big challenge. And I would say, in my experience, what really helped me through was actually talking to other people about it. To be fair, I remember going to my PhD supervisor, and she just gave me an article about academic burnout.
So that's the starting point, yeah, even just realising that, oh, it's so common that there's an article called Academic Burnout. So for you, talking to people was useful?
Yeah, certainly. And I think now, in hindsight, of course, it's almost, I think, 10 years ago that I suffered from burnout. But in hindsight as well, I think when you start in academia, there is so much pressure to be like the best in your extremely narrow, teeny, tiny topic, whatever that is, right and always have to prove again and again. And I think I'm not sure how useful that is to be fair to wellness in general. You know, why do you have to be the best? I mean, the more I learn about anything, the more I realise I know nothing about that topic. And that's fine, yeah,
Not just fine, pretty healthy, actually, yeah. So there is something isn't there about this kind of career where there's a pressure, yes, there might be pressure extending. We all know about the job market and all these kinds of things, but actually, a lot of the time, the pressure comes from inside, feeling like you have to be the absolute best and most knowledgeable. And do you think you've moved away from that? Yeah.
Well, no, I mean, it's really difficult. But to me, I think what I'm telling myself these days is, you know, I just want to enjoy the process. It's all about the process. For me, I know this as a writer too, because when you're a writer, you also face so much rejection, and it can be so hard to get your books published with commercial publishers, etc. And I'm just thinking, you know, I just want to embrace the process, because I love the process of, in my case, the process of writing, so nobody is going to ever take that away from me, you know? I mean, and that's empowering.
I love that, that no one can take away from your fact that you actually enjoy this process. Okay, maybe we'll come back to some of the things that you've brought up as well. And so Maddie, from your perspective, what are some of the challenges you faced, really, in terms of wellness, in terms of staying well as an ECR, either in the past or now? And how have you started to deal with that? If you have?
Absolutely. I think my academic journey has been filled with many fantastic opportunities, all of which so far have been fixed term contracts. So I'm on my third fixed term contract now, and what that comes with is a sort of inbuilt anxiety almost as soon as you start that, it will be over soon and you'll have to go back on the job market, look for the next thing, not know where that next opportunity might come from. That also has added challenges of having to move from place to place to be able to take those opportunities again, new houses, new settings, you know, get into a new place.
Yeah, it's an interesting thing, because I think sometimes when you start out, you think, it was just a case of getting the job, but actually it's, while you have the job, there's a lot to think about. Where's the next job? How do I move to where the job is? Those kind of things.
Absolutely, and, you know, academic timelines, you're thinking about this 12-15, months out as well. So yeah, almost as soon as you're settled into something, you may well have to be positioning and thinking about what might come next year. But I think that, you know, mentally is a really challenging thing. You want to immerse yourself in the work that you've come to do in this particular opportunity. But yeah, in the back of your mind you are just thinking about, right, okay, how do I ensure I land the next one and, you know, life, I pay the bills and there's a roof over my head that I can continue with this?
Does that have an effect on how you work on a day-to-day basis? So some of the decisions that you make, do you think, thinking about this long term, what might be some of the ways it changes how you behave, maybe in the job you've got?
Yeah, absolutely, I do think maybe you take on certain opportunities with a mind to cultivating the next one. I know that networking has been another topic that you've spoken about. You know, that being a really important aspect. Maybe you do put this kind of undue pressure on yourself to make sure things are published, outputs come out in a certain period of time, so you look your best and you look your most sort of attractive on the job market, academically, absolutely, yes, exactly. You're the bell of the ball on the market, as it were. So yeah, absolutely. I think there's definitely not only the pressure to be the best, but also do it in such a sort of short, compressed period of time as well.
And it will make some impact won’t it on the types of projects that you start and do, because we hear it a lot, the publish or perish mentality. I mean, the truth of it is that we know that in terms of getting the next role, the next step, there's a lot of hard work, and there are elements of luck, and there's being in the right place at the right time. Sometimes people have loads of publications, sometimes they don't, sometimes it's something else. And so you're very aware of that. Need to keep all the angles down.
Keep all those plates spinning.
And if that's the case, then how do you not let that be overwhelming while you're doing the job? Have you figured out the key to staying well while doing that?
Yeah, I think for me, family and maybe some of my relationships outside academia are incredibly important ground and sent to me. I think, yeah, it's very easy to maybe make academia your family and your centre of what you do, but I think remembering that there's a life outside of it is really important, and you can kind of get your fulfilment and maybe some of your stability from those other sources as well.
So that's really interesting, and the two things that you've kind of touched on, some of them, are quite internal sort of pressures and things that can happen to you. Other things though, they're very real. They are the external, structural difficulties of being an ECR in this current climate and what that means to be an early career academic. But what you're saying is part of the way through that is to not let it be everything. You're not the first person, I think of some of these episodes for anyone listening, who's going to bring up the importance of, I guess, friends and actually people outside of just your narrower field. So that's been important for you?
Yeah, definitely. And I think one of my most recent experiences, which has had a huge impact on me as an ECR, is becoming a parent, going away on a period of maternity leave and then re-entering academia after that leave as well, a hugely transitional period in my life. But yeah, now with a keen perspective of being a parent in academia, a mother in academia, and so looking for those sorts of role models as well, a very different and I guess, informal, type of networking that I'm doing now.
So again, that's very interesting, and I think I would like to ask you both about this a little bit. So we talked about, yeah, have friends and maybe stay in touch with family. These are all radical ideas, I realise, for people in academia, but stay in touch with these things. But you've mentioned the idea of these kind of informal networks. So for those listening, we will have an episode where we talk about more formal networks and these kind of things you can join. But something you said there, it's not just about finding people to hang out with. It's people who maybe have things in common with you. Maddie. Inés, how important have these more informal connections been to you in dealing with it? Have they been important to you?
Yeah, yeah, of course, extremely important. Because I think a lot of the issues we are facing are systemic issues, are flaws within the system. Just like what you were saying, Maddie, right, like the huge security in this research post, when actually, if you know if you were being nourished in an environment, if you were given the time to and the security to work, I assume your research could be even more ambitions, even more interesting and more beneficial to all of us. I think there is ways of, I suppose, being aware of that, also fighting against that. And one thing, maybe yes, making sure you have a life outside of academia and understanding that. And it's a difficult thing, because I've been thinking about this recently, because we do what we love, yes, this thing, isn't it? It's a blessing and a curse, because it's really difficult for me to separate myself from my job, because it's my writing, and it's talking to my students about writing. So I would say yes, making sure you have that community outside. And I would also say boundaries and modelling behaviour that is healthy. I think that's really, really important for the longest time, at least again, this is only my experience. But I feel like there is this thing where, like, everyone works weekend, everyone goes above and beyond to fulfil of these responsibilities, to publish or perish, like you were saying, which seems like we are in the Hunger Games.
I think that's, it's horrible that I kind of get that, that sort of analogy you just made. So whether these are external pressures or internal pressures, this feeling that it's never going to be enough, actually in some ways.
And that's liberating, you know? Because, as I say, for me right now, I think it is important I say, you know, I don't work weekends because I need that life or not answering emails 24/7, because we are only human. And I think modelling all of these behaviours, I think for me, it is important, and I think it's also a survival tactic as well. Again, having suffered from burnout, there is just so much you can stretch yourself before you collapse or break. So that would be my advice, too, to understand that. And again, it's very similar with art. I mean, it's never enough. So it's hard to get to zen about it really.
It's such an interesting, it's such a weird situation, because, again, you love what you're doing quite a lot of the time, whether that be the teaching side of it, whether it be the research side of it, it is genuinely enjoyable. That's why we pursue these careers. So even if there weren't external pressures, this is kind of drive to keep going and going and going. So this boundaries idea is something a lot of people say, isn't it like set boundaries and so on, but it can be very hard to know how and where to put those boundaries.
I think it might be kind of one of the best or most important skills as an ECR. So moving from that PhD to that ECR identity, whatever you might want to call it this idea of boundaries, but also a way of mentor put it to me, knowing how to say no and what to say no to so starting to be a little bit more strategic. I think when you're a PhD student, it's a scrabble, say yes to everything. Yeah, work those weekends, work those evenings, but yeah, you're not going to be able to do that through a 30-40 year career, are you you're gonna, yeah, burn out. So learning, I think, what to say no to what boundaries to keep in place, that's how you stay the course. That's how you make it through to the shiny pearly gates of a kind of long-term academic career. Indeed, when it comes to the mentality and the well-being of that, I think is really important.
That just really hit me, actually, when you said there's gonna be a 30- or 40-year career. So again, I came in a bit later into academia, had a different career before might be 20 years, might be 30 years, but it's a long stretch. It's what they said, the marathon, not the sprint. Yeah, I think that's actually something you can easily lose perspective of trying to get the next step, the next step, keep going in the career and so on. But it is a 30- or 40-year career, and you need to be, well, I need to keep enjoying it, right?
Yeah, you can’t do 30 years of weekends and evenings and never seeing anyone or having a holiday. You've got to build that in
You’re saying it, and it sounds so obvious, but I'm just thinking about myself as one thing. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it. I can't do that. Yeah, you can't do that. Can you? Because that's going to lead to, potentially, the burnout that you kind of already experienced in us in your PhD. So this boundaries thing. So you say people said it to you say no, when to say no. How? How do you decide? So I'm going to ask Maddie, since you've brought this up, how do you decide?
I think of it as a kind of like a barometer, almost like a needle pointer. You do it, don't say yes, say no, and yeah, I guess at the minute, working on this Leverhulme, so a project that I've proposed, I've come up with the outcomes: there, it's quite easy. I've made a list of four things that I'm going to do in these three years. And so it's a very easy question to ask you, stay focused. How am I going to fulfil one of these four things by saying yes to this opportunity? Yes, great, let's do it. No, okay, this is going to be a pass, I'm going to have to move on . You're fighting the temptations, for the ‘oh, that sounds like a great, you know, conference. I'm sure I'll hear some really cool papers. But yeah, does this have anything to do with my project, right?’ Okay, a month long or weeklong, you know, working group to talk about this is that enough days to write the book, you know, the article, yeah. So at the minute, I've got this really clear set of objectives, so that has helped to hone this ability to say ‘no’. I valued that a lot.
Well, I think that's useful as well. So, Inés you might be more same position that I'm in now: so I was a Leverhulme researcher, but now, as a lecturer, quite often you've not quite got the same boundaries around the work. How do you find yourself navigating what you do, what you don't do?
I think I have priorities as well, which I think is a very healthy thing. So I work with the students. I work with human beings, that's a priority for sure. You know, I cannot cut corners with them. I couldn't, I care a lot about them. But that would be one priority, and the other priority is my writing, because that's what I love, and I would still be a writer, even if I was not working in academia. And it's a weird thing when you are an artist, I suppose, because then you feel like you have this kind of like double career that you're trying to balance, mostly unsuccessfully, you know, being a writer, but also a creative writing lecturer. So those are my two main priorities.
So maybe we need to do this thing of even if we haven't got a very specific project going on, be very clear on ‘these are the things that matter to me. These are my priorities and what I want from what I'm doing here, where I'm going’ and make sure that those things, yeah, those are things I want to put my time and energy into, and I might not be perfect and brilliant, all these other little things that come out.
Yeah. And I think also communicating even with our managers, that sometimes some workloads and thinking about lecturers here are just unmanageable. And I think the more of us, we just say, look like this is not humanly possible, because I also need to breathe and have a family and have friends. So, yeah, communicating that and fighting for that again, like I think it's really important, and I'm just so grateful to people more senior to me that are also helping in that and setting that example.
So there's something as well about the further we go about role modelling these things. Yeah, it’s so important, and maybe our past experiences can help us do that, but you've come back against this idea of the more of us that do X, or the more of us that say X, and there's this sense, right of you kind of need to know what's going on with everybody else, maybe. And this takes us back to thinking about maybe communities. And how do you find this stuff out? Like, how do you build these more informal networks and ways of realising, Oh, actually, maybe I don't have to say yes to everything I'm doing. So have you had experience of finding people?
Oh, my God, it's so funny. But when I was at a previous post, not at Lancaster University, we were going through a strike, and I was in the picket line, and I met so many friends there, from all over the university, of just showing up to a common goal. And for the first time, we were all talking to each other, and I was talking with people from other departments, from like psychology and engineering. You know, I'm a writer, so engineering, that's a scary department for me, absolutely. Yeah. I'm a philosopher, you know what goes on in engineering? And that was so much fun. And again, like talking to other people and seeing other ways in which people are coping with different things, or how they are setting boundaries and just talking openly about it. I think we forget that we can connect with other people and how empowering and fulfilling and inspiring it is as well, to be fair, because it's thanks to, I don't know, having these connections say that then we further down the line, perhaps have collaborated in research projects or have helped each other.
You can often have these benefits you don't expect just from chatting. It's interesting. So in your case, you met people through this kind of way. I do think it's very easy to forget actually the importance of maybe carving out spending time with other people, actually treating that as just as important, maybe as some of the other tasks that you have. Have you done that? So you've met people at these kind of things. How do you stay in touch with people? They're my friends, I suppose. So I just check in on them. That whole experience, going through all of that really brought us together. And they're from all sorts of different disciplines. And then just talking as well, and I think again, reaching also to the local community outside of the university has been so inspiring. No, because I'm a writer, and writing is quite a lonely thing, and I'm also an extrovert.
So you find people energising, but you're the things you're passionate about, because you spend time on your own,
Yeah, so kind of like a happy middle for me, has been writing with other people in a room in silence, but like feeling that I am with other people, and I find that actually so inspiring. So I reached out to our local library and asking if they would be happy to host, like an informal writing group, but a writing group just to write, not to exchange writing or exchange feedback.
Just where people could just be in the space of other humans and just be writing. So there's a little bit of stretch to it, and that, yeah, accountability that comes with being with people. Yeah, we're all nodding yes.
That's been so much fun this year. We started in January. Our local library has been so kind to give us the space for free. I mean, I've been incredibly generous. Please do support your local libraries. They're amazing places - Lancaster Central Library, they're amazing. The staff there are just the best. And we meet every Wednesday, and it's open to everyone, literally anyone, who wants to come and write. And it's been so fun. I don't even know is people ever gonna even turn up, you know? I mean, you know how these things are, and we have regulars now, but we still have new people every week, and its people from all ages, from all backgrounds, and we just chat about writing. And that reminds me that what I do is also important outside of the university.
Yes, okay, good. I think what's really great about what the example you've given as well, is that's something where you were like: what do I need? And you started it and you did it, because I think that can feel quite daunting as well, to actually sort of be the initiator. But then you find sometimes it might not work, and we maybe talk about that in some of the other episodes, but sometimes it does. And just keep trying to find the ways to find community, to find people. So Maddie, how have you found people? You mentioned becoming a parent and being an academic that became part of your identity. How have you found the people?
It's interesting. I think the main way I've gotten involved in this university is through some of these staff networks that exist. And interestingly, there was a celebration week at Birmingham of all of the different staff networks. And in the kind of summary, it said that overwhelmingly, the members of these networks were from professional services rather than academics. And I was really surprised to hear that. And they said that this was true across the board, at different universities and all of the networks. So there's an LGBTQ network, there's a Disability Network, the ones that I'm involved in are the Parents and Carers and the Women's Network, but yeah, really interesting to hear that the academics weren't subscribing to these networks, because they've been amazing resources for me from the very practical kind of resources that you can get. So when I first started at Birmingham, I was still breastfeeding and pumping, and on the University website, it said the only place to do that was the Biomedical Sciences Building, which was a 20-minute walk away. But when I dropped a message into our teams chat of the Parents and Carers network, immediately I had five suggestions of much easier, closer places where I could go to pump throughout the day. So yeah, just that resource-sharing. They even do things like school uniform swaps at the start of the year, which I'm not there yet in my parenting journey. But I mean, that's just amazing to have that support and resource sharing opportunity.
Why do you think there aren't more academics in these groups?
I was really surprised and struck like that. I'm not sure that I do have an answer. Maybe it is just that perception that academics as much more on their own, I guess, like particularly parents, that's not something you should be bringing into your work. So yeah, I have found that there is much more of a sort of maybe foot forward about women in academia. I've seen a lot more events and advocacy around that, far less about being a parent. I think maybe there's a perception that that's something you leave at the door when you come into work and not something you should bring in.
So having caring responsibilities and being a parent, whether it's objectively true or not, might be seen as not part of what it is to be an academic and obviously not true, right? Because we know so many parents and carers, this maybe comes back to some of the things you've both been saying about boundaries as well. When I think about maybe professional services roles. There's often a clear-ish job description, there are working hours, there are things that go with that. There are policies and expectations about it, and yeah, we have policies and so on as academics, but quite often it's this, keep writing, keep teaching, just keep doing things and follow your own path, which is important, but maybe it leads to not recognising the value and the need and the importance of joining in with these more informal networks, and what that can mean for your wellbeing to help you get through all the rest of it.
Yeah. Another thing, which I think is really undersubscribed, but I think is quite common, is most universities will allow you at least one day of bookable annual leave to do some volunteering. And again, when I tell people about this:’oh, really, I've never heard of that’. I think that's such another important way of giving back and maybe balancing your wellbeing is to be of service and help to others. So I volunteer for a perinatal mental health charity and a food waste charity cafe as well. And yeah, when I feel that my cup is really empty and I'm running low. Yeah, an opportunity to connect with people that way giving that space and opportunity to others. That's such an enriching, rewarding, energising opportunity.
And it's something we can again, we can lose sight of, can't we? So paradoxically, you might think, what can help you recharge and feel better and recollect your humanity moves is just helping other people in a very different context and connecting with this broader community. So I think a lot of people who are listening are running to go and find out if their university has these days. Because too often again, I think, as an ECR, you can feel everything I do has to be somehow instrumentalised or made part of what I'm trying to do. So well, if I'm going to do something in the community, surely I've got to show impact or do something. You get this kind of message. But actually, if we're going to make this 30–40-year stretch, or more or less, work for us, we need to have connections. We need to remember who we are. We need to remember the broader picture. And it can be good for us. So very selfishly, it's good for you. That's what you're finding.
Yeah, you know, underpinning the idea of the British university is the idea of a civic good. You know, Birmingham particularly celebrates this idea that it's a civic University. And I know others built in the 19th century do as well. So yeah, we should be a good and yeah, we maybe don't need to, as you say, instrumentalise it in quite so a precise way. But yeah, how are we doing good for ourselves, but for others as well, upholding and uplifting that community feeling?
Does that resonate with you? I mean, you talked about the library?
Yeah, 100% I do wonder again, like if academia, as it is now in this country, is pushing us to be more individualistic and obsessed with our own productivity and our own output. But I think we both know by now that's not healthy and it's not really the way. So I wonder if there should be more emphasis on these, even for like, PhD students. I'm starting to have my PhD students now, and I will certainly strive to pass down this message. But of like, also how important it is to create community, to feel held by that community as well, in the university, outside of the university, because I don't know, like nothing happens in a vacuum, in a way. Research doesn't happen in a vacuum either. It's not only one person producing all this research, right? These communities, these connections that you make, these networks, and that's just so important. And I feel like, at least when I was doing my PhD, nobody really, you know, went to a lot of workshops about how to write your CV, or how to write a paper for a conference, etc, or go to a job interview. But I do think this is equally important. And there are other ways of making things right. Because, like, you are talking about being a parent, of course, why is that not part of the university as well? You know, we are human beings. And I think in other countries. I'm thinking about the Scandinavian countries, because I have friends who work at universities there, they are more accepting to this idea of you have a family, and maybe everyone leaves the office at 3pm because that's where the children come out of school, and that's fine, men and women you know.
Maybe we need to get more used to well, if it's not being made very salient to us that these things exist, or that this is part of it, then maybe we just need to say this is my identity, and I am going to find the people and the way of being this person that I am to stay well,
I've really tried to be upfront about being a parent. And it has felt quite bold, and yet I wouldn't go so far as maybe radical. But for example, you know, I've said, you know, I've said it and I've gotten kind of stares as in, you know, like, Oh, why? Why are you bringing that up? Why would you mention that? So, yeah, sometimes it's not always a welcome topic of conversation, but I feel it is really important exactly to role model and to be upfront.
And that can be true whether it's being a parent, carer, coming from a different background, you know, being maybe somebody's not used to UK culture and climate, being from a working class background, all these kinds of things, they are part of identities, and maybe there's a tendency for us to try and compartmentalise these things away, when actually we all bring it to who we are and what we're doing. You talked about role-modelling, and you said something about finding these senior people that you find quite inspiring and so on. Do either of you have mentors? Have you had mentors officially, not officially, and how on earth have you found them?
Oh, my God. I mean, yeah, mentors have literally saved my life. Academically as a writer, too. And I think, yeah, I actually met two of my best friends through literary events as well. So I suppose doing things that I am a writer, so I love going to literary events, but not necessarily just the university, right? So I met these two friends. They're like my older sisters. They're also writers. It's been so eye opening to just hear their experiences as they were a few years ahead of me.
So you've just found them through this quite informal process, these people that I've got on with, and you just said, Yeah, I want your help. Can you help me?
Yeah, pretty much. And just be really good friends. So with one of them, we meet every week to write together via zoom, and we just write together, and we just talk about the university, about our writing careers and having that kind of regular contact. And it takes a bit of time, but I don't know. Maybe it's because I am an immigrant, so my friends are my family, because I'm in this country on my own, allocating time also, for example, for that hour a week to just catch up with my friend over zoom and then write together a bit.
These are people that are very important to you. So you make time for them. It's very useful as well, we keep coming back to this: make the time. Not see it as an extra, but see it as part central to thriving in academia, not just surviving it, getting through.
You have to see it as a cycle. I think, rather than just like a straight line, you are kind of running through. And I say this to my students as well, we write, we publish, but also you need time to get inspired, to get the ideas that then will turn out into these publications.
And that's true, whether it's academic writing or fiction, quite often you need the inspiration
So understanding – and this is so hard for me, right? Because I'm the kind of person who cannot stay still for one second. I always need to be doing something. I came down here on the train and I was crocheting all the way because I cannot just sit on a train, you know, I'm not good at this at all, but – understanding that, yeah, rest and relaxation are not just necessary, but also conductive to my best research.
That's great. I love that. And there was something that was interesting just you saying the crocheting, and while it is doing something, but it is again doing something that's just engage your brain differently. And the reason I found that interesting was because I don't know if either of you had this experience, but I found when I was first really going through PhD and early careers, I'd stopped reading fiction, I stopped doing fun things like this, is that true? And I've recaptured that last few years. Maddie, you were nodding there.
Yeah, unfortunately. Firstly, I was asleep on the train this morning, didn't do anything productive or useful. But secondly, unfortunately, yes, I have not managed to claw back fiction yet, because when my day ends there's a small human that needs my attention and fulfilment. So hopefully that is in the years to come. But yeah, absolutely, that's something I really resonate with.
Well it sounds like if you want to do it, you'll have to put it on the list and find a block of time. And then so in terms of mentors, how have you found mentors?
Yeah, I think, like Inés, in some ways, it's been very natural encounters, I would say, people within my discipline. But similarly, I think going beyond the more formal networking aspect of it is nurturing those relationships. And I think we've just mentioned priorities, again, priorities as one really important aspect to be focused on. But then there's also values as well, and those might have a wider application beyond the direct research and work that you're doing, but yeah, if you share the same values as the people in your community, and you are able to nurture each other in those values and coming together and ideas of community. I think that's such a such a great thing for this overall topic of wellbeing and mental health, I kind of try and seek out mentors whose values I really admire and aspire to. But also, yeah, try and nurture those relationships, make sure that I'm putting as much into them as I might be getting out of them as well. So, yeah, that might be, you know, I'm thinking in particular, of a wonderful colleague who works, actually, I would say, very closely, in terms of similar research. We work on very similar things. But actually she needed help moving house, and I was there, and we had a very sweaty, long day doing that, and that's how we connected. And yeah, I don't think we spoke about a single piece of British history that day, but, you know, I felt that that was kind of equally important in nurturing and cultivating.
So it’s seeing people that you do admire for their values and how they are, and maybe being prepared to introduce yourself and say hello and kind of go for it. There will be formal mentoring schemes quite often. But who you actually find your inspiration from and help you stay well within the academy can be other people, different people. Okay, so I think this is a great point to wrap it up on. We've touched on a lot of wonderful things, actually, and advice of staying well in here. And I'm hearing the messages about knowing your values, setting boundaries, having your priorities, connecting with other people in similar situations, or identify with yours and the wider community. But if there was one thing you could leave the people listening with as a bit of advice for staying well and thriving as an ECR, could be something you say, could be something else. What would that be? So maybe I'll ask you first, Maddie, because you caught my eye there.
What might it be? I think one of the things I think you can do coming out of the PhD and moving into that ECR moment is gain a little bit of perspective, I think look at the bigger picture. I think you've spent a few years working on something so niche, so important, that you held so close to you, but, yeah, to develop into that academic, which is somebody who has, as we said, this career, that's got longevity, that's got legs. It really helps to see the whole picture. And the whole picture is not just a book, it's not just an article, it's not just teaching, it's this whole constellation, this whole network of things that that comes together to make the best you.
So really keep your perspective, and then focus on what your immediate goals are. Inés, what about for you? What's the one thing?
Yeah, I mean, Maddie that's such great advice as well, looking at the big picture. For me, I think. And again, I'm not good at this, but I'm trying to be better at this, would be to celebrate every teeny, tiny success. Celebrate everything, right? Like you are submitting a grant, you celebrate the submission of the grant. It doesn't matter if you get that grant, you don't get it, just getting that written: celebration. You hand in your PhD: huge celebration too. I mean, you survive a new academic year: we need to celebrate End of marking season: celebrate. We don't do this at all. We always, and I think in part, it’s because of how precarious the system is, like you are saying Maddie you are forced to be thinking always about the next thing right, holding that time to just celebrate our successes and not take anything for granted. And think, you know, it's little by little, accomplishing these things and creating this path for us and for the people around us. And I think celebration, it is important, and it's not silly.
Absolutely, so we've got have some perspective, so you can do all those other things we said and just celebrate. Celebrate. I think many of us needed to hear that. So thank you very much. A wonderful note to finish on. So I'd like to thank my guests today on the podcast. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much. Thank you, pleasure.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of an Early Career Researcher. I've been your host, Leonie Smith. This podcast was brought to you by the British Academy in collaboration with the Leverhulme Trust, produced by Content is Queen, music sourced by Epidemic Sound.