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Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them. How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success, and most importantly, find joy.
Your Host is New York Times bestselling author Rupert Isaacson. Long time human rights activist, Rupert helped a group of Bushmen in the Kalahari fight for their ancestral lands. He's probably best known for his autism advocacy work following the publication of his bestselling book "The Horse Boy" and "The Long Ride Home" where he tells the story of finding healing for his autistic son. Subsequently he founded New Trails Learning Systems an approach for addressing neuro-psychiatric conditions through horses, movement and nature. The methods are now used around the world in therapeutic riding program, therapy offices and schools for special needs and neuro-typical children.
You can find details of all our programs and shows on www.RupertIsaacson.com
Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.
Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New
York Times bestselling author of
The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.
Before I jump in with today's guest, I
want to say a huge thank you to you, our
audience, for helping to make this happen.
I have a request.
If you like what we do here,
please give it a thumbs up,
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It really, really helps
us to make the pro.
To find out about our certification
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books, and other courses,
please go to rupertisaacson.com.
So now let's jump in.
Welcome back to Live Free, Ride Free.
I've been waiting for
this one for a long time.
I have the legend, the living legend,
Luis Valença here, Master Luis Valença.
If you don't know who he is,
then you should and you will
by the end of this podcast.
If you have ever heard of the
term equestrian art, then you are
looking at the current greatest
living exponent of that tradition
currently alive on planet Earth.
Mestre Luis Valença, he lives in Lisbon.
He's been practicing equestrian
art there for a very long time
and educating all sorts of people,
even including monkeys like me,
and he's a legend around the world.
Those who know of him know of him and
in the sort of top tiers of the dressage
world, it's kind of a little bit like
talking about François Robichon de La
Guerinière but actually walking around.
That's how people know him and because
he keeps an amazing stable of school
master horses, he doesn't just talk about
what he does and he doesn't, doesn't
just educate people on their own horses.
He educates people on the
incredible horses that he himself
has prepared and with his family.
You see his incredible daughter, Sofia,
one of three incredible daughters,
equally talented, sitting next to him and
really this man is a national treasure.
There is just, is no question about this.
So I'm very honored to be a small part
of bringing this a little bit further
into the public, public connaissance.
All right.
So without further ado Senhor
Luis and Sofia Valença, thank you
so much for coming on the show
Yeah please tell us who
you are and what you do
Luis Valenca: You know you speak
about my life, my system, my method.
It's very, very easy and
very, very complicated.
And you know, it's very easy because it's
to do a connection between the man and the
horse, like you do a connection with man
with man, that the horse understand you.
Sometimes it's very complicated
because that, the basic
things from that, it's love.
Not everybody have the love out of his
ears and of with his voice,
but of his heart, huh?
And then it's the principal
from the, our method.
It's to love and the big passion
that you have to the horses, to
the people that like horses, huh?
In basic, that seems it's very easy
because all the, all the system
that you utilize, the communication
between us and the horses is like a
communication with the children, huh?
And that you have in your
Sofia Valenca: Instinct?
Luis Valenca: Instinct, huh.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: The communication for
our children, because humans have, have
babies, babies need to have education.
It's because I have tell the, the
basic things about our system, our
method, it's the love, to love.
It's the same that you have with
your children, your daugh- daughters,
with your sons and everything.
When I tell that sometimes it's very
difficult because there are some
people don't have that open from,
from his heart to understand that.
But you know, sometimes the more rigid,
the more closed, after work one, two
days, they begin to have- Open his
heart and begin to have understand
what is to love work with horses.
It's not a gymnastic, it's
not to do exercise singles.
It's to have a system, but the first
thing is communicate with the horse,
and the horse accept you, huh?
And that is the basic, and
that, that communication needs
to do not forcing, not cry.
It's like I have tell, it's like
when you communicate with your
children and with your sons, with
much love and much passion, and that
it's because I have 88 something
years old, 81, quite, I don't know.
And I have the same enthusiasm because
I love the life, I love the horses,
I love the family, I love my space.
I love, huh?
And that love, it's the that have
building the, our method, and our
method it's very easy because f- for
example, the children when go to the
school, he don't begin to, to read
historic things, to read mathematic.
No, he begins to understand the,
his teacher and understand why.
First the sons from the, the, the words.
After that sense, he begin
to write some designs, huh?
When
Sofia Valenca: they start to learn how
Luis Valenca: to hand write it ⦠he,
he, he begin, he begin to have
action in his hands, and he's ab-
ends his communication by there.
But not forcing, huh?
Something is spontaneous,
and after it's fantastic.
For example, I can tell you
now, in my life, I have God
give me something very special.
I have a little baby
from my granddaughter.
I have a, a grand- A grand- A
Rupert Isaacson: great-granddaughter
⦠Luis Valenca: great-granddaughter.
And that grand-granddaughter, the system,
the communication with her, it's the
same that we have with the horses, huh?
And now we have is fantastic.
Now she have two years old.
She speak with us natural, and
sometimes it's not normal like
a children with two years old.
And you know why?
Because our communication.
She come in the morning with
us to the riding hall here.
She go to see the horses.
She go to, to-
Sofia Valenca: Touch
⦠Luis Valenca: to touch, to clean,
to give some carrots, to giveâ¦
And that-
Sofia Valenca: To play in the sand.
Mm.
To, to climb trees, to
fall off, to hurt her knee.
Luis Valenca: Sometimes we
have a problem with the, well-
Sofia Valenca: When they fall
⦠Luis Valenca: when they fall.
But all that, it's the same that you
have d- that you do with the young horses
or the old horses, because sometimes
our method you can introduce in young
horses or a old horse that come from
sometimes from you don't know one.
When he come, it's more
difficult, the old horses.
Because we have experience in
the life, sometimes negative.
Mm.
And then the memory of your stay there.
You need first to clean that, to give your
heart, and after we, we give to- To build
Sofia Valenca: the trust again
⦠Luis Valenca: to give the, the work.
That is the basic s-
things from our method.
Now, I
Rupert Isaacson: know- Now,
Luis Valenca: this is- ⦠it's very
easy because it's doing with love.
It's v- sometimes very difficult because
there are some people that don't have
the, the spontaneous love in the, in the
things that they do, but after the horse
give that sensibility to the, to theâ¦
There are a communication first
with the horse, but sometimes the
horse give the same, the same,
Sofia Valenca: The
Luis Valenca: same love
the same return.
The return.
Same return.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, I agree.
You know, I had- But it's- ⦠the
experience of coming to you the
first time, and my job was really
r- to rehab older therapy horses.
I mean, I knew you guys were legends, and
I of course wanted to learn everything
I could learn, but it became immediately
apparent to me that- You could take a
horse with your system who had arthritis,
who had bad experiences in the mind and
the history, who had these stories in
the body and in the mind, and you could
effectively create a yoga where you would
reverse the age of the horse- Mm-hmm
and de-traumatize the horse.
And of course for me, this was
massively useful because these were
the kinds of horses that naturally
I was initially having to deal with.
And then after perhaps 24 months of
working with your system, suddenly
all these rejuvenated horses were
in piaffe and passage and doing
all these amazing things out of joy
and of course out of your system.
So this was revelatory, right?
Not everybody who you can go and
study with will give you the key like
you guys gave to me, and I've seen
you give to so many other people.
As you say, love is massively
important, joy, but you also
give very practical tools.
Could you talk us through the
simplicity of the concept?
Because I think we can all understand
that a concept can be simple to
understand, but perhaps a little
more complicated to execute.
But could you talk us through
the simplicity of your method?
Because rather like La Guérinière,
for example, when you read La
Guérinière, it's a short book.
You think, "Oh, it's a short book."
And then you read it again, and
then you read it again, and then
you read, and then you go, "Oh.
Oh, it's deeper, it's
deeper, it's deeper."
So but we start with that simplicity.
Can you outline to us that system?
Luis Valenca: Yes.
Before that you know, I have in my life-
Three fantastic masters in my life, and
that it's more easy to understand all the
system because to have the experience that
I have with the horses, I have read all,
all masters, the old masters, because you
need to read to, to know the books, to,
to know all the system that they are good.
After to, with that in your, in your mind,
when you have the communication with the
horses, you have problems all days, some
resistance that, and you can utilize it.
Now, maybe with that I can result that.
I, I, I tell you one story, for example,
about I speak now about my masters, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Luis Valenca: My, when I am five
years old, my god, god, god-
Sofia Valenca: Godfather
Luis Valenca: godfather, it, it's
in Lisbon he have a big farm with
horses, and I think that it's more
important o- man in the, in the world
of the horses, huh, because he have
horses in that time, I, I speak in
the years 50, 1950, '52, '53, yeah.
The horse, it much utilized.
And my, my, my godfather, he have
horses to jump, he have horses to
the hound, he have horses to the
carriage, he have horses to the bull
fights, he have horses for everything.
And I begin with five years old, go with
him, and begin to understand w- whatâ¦
For example, we go to see horses
to buy, and I come with him, and he
tell, "You know, that horse, maybe
it's a good horse to, to the world
of the jump, because he have the more
height, the movements more, and the,
the back in the canter, he do that."
He begin to, to explain
me with the horses, huh?
After sometimes he choice one horse to
the bull fight, and he tells, "You see,
that horse is fantastic because he have
the more down, the back of the horse down.
The energy from the horse,
it's fantastic, yeah."
And now I have that teacher
that give, that open me the
world of the horse with that-
Rupert Isaacson: What was his name?
What was your godfather's name?
Luis Valenca: It's Fernando Ralao.
It's, it's-
Rupert Isaacson: How do
we spell that in, it-
Luis Valenca: Ralao.
It's the, the grandfather from Joao Ralao.
He, it's the president, it's the
secretary from the APSC, yeah, and
from Miguel Ralao that he have two
Olympic Games in dressage, and-
Rupert Isaacson: How
do we spell that name?
Fern- Fernando-
Sofia Valenca: Fernando, F-E-R-N-A-N-D-O
Rupert Isaacson: That one I
can spell, but the other one.
Sofia Valenca: Ralao, R-A-L-A-O
⦠Rupert Isaacson: R-A-L-A-O.
Okay, so he was the first mentor.
Got it.
Luis Valenca: And with him,
I, I begin to understand.
And after, I begin to have some
horses to ride, and when we ride
horses more advanced, sometimes in the
end he tell, "Luis, ride a little."
And after, it's the horses that he have
that give me the first experience and
the sensibility from a good horse, from
a bullfighter good horse, to the hound
a good horse, to the, to the carriage.
I have do much carriage
in that moment with him.
And that is my, my first,
Sofia Valenca: Experience
⦠Luis Valenca: experience that, and he,
that man, he do that with love, huh?
It's a man very active, huh?
En- enthusiastic, huh?
He tell that all days he
have so much horses at home.
Maybe he have 40 or 50 horses at home,
but all days he say, "Now you go to
do, to see one horse that I know."
In that moment, there are much horses.
N- it's not on- only the breeders.
There are horses in the, in the
Alentejo, but there's much, the
quantity of the horses, it's much, Was
Sofia Valenca: bigger at the
Luis Valenca: time ⦠it's bigger, huh?
Mm.
And now I have that experience.
After I have the experience when we
ride, in the end he begin to tell
me, "Now you ride a little," huh?
And it's the horse that it's
more advanced that give me the
sensibility and the talent from the,
the, the quality from the horses.
That is my first master,
just all life, huh?
All, all life just toâ¦
He, he, he have died.
There are maybe 25 years before,
but just to the end, he have the
same enthusiasm about horses, huh?
After, I have a second master
A man very complicate, huh?
Very rigid, but he begin
to give me lessons.
He have 87 years, in the end of his life.
And for him, me, it's like
a oxygen in his life, huh?
He return to have life, huh?
And now he take me like a, a
grandson or a, This, th- th-
Sofia Valenca: A
Luis Valenca: son.
A son,
Rupert Isaacson: mm-hmm.
Luis Valenca: A- and he
open, phew, his wholeâ¦
His co- co- His
Sofia Valenca: knowledge.
Luis Valenca: That he- Mm.
Directly from the more complicate
big masters, like Boucherie.
He's a man, he's a Boucheriest.
I tell Boucheries becauseâ¦
And all the system from
Boucherie, he give me that, huh?
He give me-
Rupert Isaacson: Can you
give us his name please?
Luis Valenca: Cunha Menezes.
Rupert Isaacson: Cunha?
Luis Valenca: Menezes.
Rupert Isaacson: Menezes.
Me-
Luis Valenca: His fatherâ¦
Menezes.
His father is one people from
Boucherie, the father from Mr.
Menezes, huh?
Now, the, the, the, the so
complicate that is the system from
Boucherie, if you read the books.
I have directly, and with the horse, the
experience, do that, do that, and theâ¦
That is a time fantastic because
that man, with the 87 years, he
have won in the years 80, 96, huh?
He have, he have a big
experience about horses, huh?
About to dress the horses, huh?
And I have stories fantastic
with that man, huh?
After, in the end, when is Mr.
Menezes don't go more out of his,
Sofia Valenca: He stop teaching
⦠Luis Valenca: stop
teaching, I go to, to your,
Sofia Valenca: To his student
⦠Luis Valenca: to your house and
give, give me just to the end
of his life, he give me lessons.
Sometimes in the, in the, in the bed,
very, very sick, he put me in a chairs
with two reins and one spoon in the hand.
He give me the helps.
See, I have my, my, my right leg-
Rupert Isaacson: Your riding aids.
Luis Valenca: With the-
Rupert Isaacson: Transferred
from the deathbed
⦠Luis Valenca: yes.
You know, the, the
sensitivity from the spoon.
You touch there, you touch there.
It's a man, it's a
boucheryste, very complicated.
Right.
But I have understand all that system.
In that moment- Nuno Oliveira, one day,
because Nuno is married with a, a, one
cousin, and Nuno is very jealous in
that time with the ⦠There are two or
three, or three riding schools in Lisbon,
and Nuno is jealous from that, huh.
In that moment, I am with my
godfather and it's jealousy,
he don't speak with me, huh.
After I am with Mr.
Cunha Mendes, now he begin
to open a little the house.
Sometimes I go to visit with Cunha Mendes.
He have much respect with Cunha Mendes.
And one day he tell me, "Luis, I know that
you have ⦠There is one horse with Mr.
Mendes.
Can I show, can you show me the horse?"
"Yes."
Do you know, in all my life,
it's a horse that give me the
route to have n- new things, huh.
I go to take the horse.
The horse it's i- it's very nice, like
model, and it's dressed in Pouchet system.
He do gallop back, he do
gallop in straight legs, he
do ⦠I have showed the horse.
Nuno is in the tribune like that.
In the end, he tell me, "You know, it's
not bad, but dressage it's not only that.
There are much things after that."
And he goes.
He goes.
In this day, in that day, I go home
to do ⦠I live with my father and
my mother, and when I arrive to take
lunch, my mother tell me, "You know
who is in the telephone with me?"
"No."
It's Nuno Oliveira stay with me one
hour speak with me, to tell that,
"See you to ride the horse, and I have
seen that you can do in the future a
man from the, the world horses, huh."
Now he tell me, "If you want,"
he open his doors, "and you
can begin to work with him.
Go.
If you are according, go this afternoon
six o'clock to speak with him."
And I have go six o'clock to speak
with him, and he tell me, "If you
want, you begin to work with me
here, because what you do with Mr.
Mendes, it's not bad.
But the dressage is, it's more open.
There are more things to, to building
the, the life of the horse, huh."
And I have tell him one thing.
Yes, I, I accept that, but you
know, I have the lessons with Mr.
Nunes and I, I don't go to stop with Mr.
Nunes.
And that for him, it's very nice
to tell that you don't wantâ¦
I don't
Sofia Valenca: want- He shows respect for-
Luis Valenca: I don't want profit what he
offer me, but I respect my, my, my master.
And he tell me, "What
time you work with Mr.
Nunes norm- in the normal after lunch?
Half past one, two o'clock."
"Okay."
"You go to work all days in the
morning, and after when you finished
Nunes, you come to my place, huh?
Now come tomorrow, 7:00
o'clock in the morning."
And I begin like that with Nuno.
The first time it's a little difficult for
me because Nuno is a, a man very fantastic
in his work, but very exigent, huh?
And the day after when I
arrive, he have the littleâ¦
It, it's not the, the space that
he have, it's another riding hall.
He have 24 meters by 12 And he tell me,
"You got to ride three horses there.
And you begin 7:00, just 10:00."
I ride one horse after I, I
changed, another, another.
And Nuno ride another horse.
João Oliveira ride another.
And Mr.
It's the man that help him ride.
There are four riders in the riding hall.
And you know, during that, that
three hours, three hours, he
tell me, "Do the magic work calm.
After you don't tell nothing, huh?"
And I tell, "What then?
Maybe I do the mistakes, huh?"
But during that tell each one work
his horse, pum, pum, pum, pum, pum.
You don't, you don't
Rupert Isaacson: He doesn't correct you.
Luis Valenca: Huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Luis Valenca: After, in the afternoon when
I finished with Coromnes, I come and he
tell, "Now you got to work that horse."
And now in that moment, in the
morning we have do that with theâ¦
I don't remember what horse that I have
left from the Conde Mousa, a brown horse.
We have do that.
It's not that.
The inside rein, it's God
that give you in your hand.
You don't, can utilize the
inside rein so, so strong, huh?
And after he begin to introduce
his system, not in the moment that
you work, it's after when, when you
work alone the other horses, huh?
And I stay with him just that time, huh?
During the, the, the people tell, "Ah, the
attention because it's very difficult."
I can tell you in my life, Donal not only
one minute that it's negative with me.
And he stay much friendly.
The last years when I have here the
riding hall in Vila Franca, He, he,
he phone me and they tell I want toâ¦
It's me that choice the horses for him.
And after he arrive from the big
tourney, they tell Luiz, "I have arrived.
I need two horses.
I w- want one horse, one brown, one gray."
And the horse like that.
"Go quickly.
They wantâ¦"
It's a man that he have the
fire from, from the dressage.
He have theâ¦
I, I don't want to tell dressage.
He have the fire from
dress his horses, huh?
Huh.
It-
Rupert Isaacson: Talk to us quickly.
People are very confused about this
word dressage because obviously it's a
French word, and you guys are dressed.
I'm dressed.
If I go to a restaurant and I order
a salad, I get a salad dressing.
If I cut my skin, you put
a dressing on the wound.
Yeah.
You put it together.
W- so when you use this word a dressed
horse or to dress a horse, but other
people thinking d- think dressage
is just training or a sport, can you
just explain a little bit before we
go on with the stories, what is the
real meaning of this term, to dress?
Luis Valenca: To dress is
the same with the children.
I go, I return to the children, huh?
To the horse understand the basic things
that it's for his body stay more soft and
more communicate with his teacher, huh?
Dressage, when you tell dressage, the,
the word it's a little, a little strong.
Dressage, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Luis Valenca: And when you work with
the horse, there are never strong.
There are soft things, huh?
The sun, the touch, the way
to, to utilize your hands, huh?
There are some thing like I
can tell you now Music, huh?
Music.
About music, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Luis Valenca: Our system, the
equestrian, the, the equestrian heart,
I tell heart, it's like the music.
It's the same that you watch
Chopin or Beethoven, our work.
The other dressage, the competition,
that is fantastic today.
We were fantastic riders
in competition, huh?
But it's more stronger because- Mm ⦠you
need to go from the point one to the
point B with the, with your very straight,
you know, you have Gromekses, Gromekses.
You have the-
Rupert Isaacson: Rules, yeah
⦠Luis Valenca: yeah.
You have the, the regla, huh?
Special school.
Rules, yeah.
Then they're not r- with our system
It's to have in the begin a
communication with the horse.
The horse have the eyes, the
ears, the touch, and the smell.
Very, very important, huh?
And with that you can begin to,
to go to the world of the horses.
And you see when, when a horse
have something that it's not
normal, the ears do that, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: After
you open the nose, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Luis Valenca: And sometimes
the eyes too, huh?
There are some s- is- there are
something that it's not normal.
If in that moment the horse is no,
your son like, ah, to calm, huh?
Sofia Valenca: The touch.
Luis Valenca: The touch with your hand.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: And sometimes the, to pass
your hand in the nose, you have, you have
to give to the horse some confidence that
you are a special friend of him, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Luis Valenca: It's very
easy, huh, you know?
It's very easy, but
it's not to tell, "Ha."
It's not to tell that, huh?
It's not to tell that in the nose, huh?
It's something like Chopin.
When you heard Chopin, you go
maybe you close your eyes, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: You, you wantâ¦
I, I give that comparison with the
music because sometimes the music
give you, your mind to have a soft,
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
Luis Valenca: a
Sofia Valenca: Cloud
⦠Luis Valenca: a soft
cloud in the ideas, huh?
And you need to give that to the
horse with s- something very,
very easy, and that it's the
basic from our s- our method, huh?
Sofia Valenca: It's- I, I just gonna
interrupt you just to, 'cause it
just- Mm-hmm ⦠crossed my mind.
I think dressage should be the word
that we should give the meaning that
it helps the horse to understand his
body and to apply his body and learn
how to use his body in a way that made
him feel good in his own skin, and
this is a little bit what we try to do
Rupert Isaacson: I like, okay,
so you just said this, I'll
pick you up on that last thing.
To feel good- In
yourself ⦠in his own skin.
Now, you also, your father just said,
Senior Luis, he just said that it's like
Chopin, and when you listen to Chopin
and you close your eyes, that's the
feeling you would like the horse to have.
And then earlier in the conversation,
you talked about love and joy.
I can tell you, and I think most
people listening to this or watching
this, do not normally hear those
words when it comes to dressage.
They hear words like correct or
classical or words that sound like
they come with a little bit of
punishment if you get them wrong.
Obviously, we inherit a lot from
the military, and we know this
training pyramid, this training
scale that the Germans gave us.
Nowhere on there is there joy.
Nowhere.
So you, I think, are the
only people I know who-
authentically, I think, really
prioritized that as the dressing of
the horse, to feel good in his body.
Okay.
And what you were describing there was
that the horse could take pleasure.
Sofia Valenca: And that's
where the joy starts.
Rupert Isaacson: Right.
Sofia Valenca: Begin.
The joy should begin in the moment
that horse enters into the arena.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Sofia Valenca: And every single day
he has to come inside the arena-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Sofia Valenca: more joined
than the day before.
And this is, I think it's the most
important and smart and intelligent
way of being in this world, is how, how
can I make this horse happier today?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Sofia Valenca: It's all
about understanding-
Luis Valenca: You-
⦠Sofia Valenca: and making him understand
what we want him to understand
⦠Luis Valenca: today I
can give you a example.
I have a horse here that have
a problem, physical problem
Physical problem because I don't
know what he have, but he have
something in the back, huh?
In the morning he have s- do some
exercise with the horse and I have
seen that the horse is sometimes he
have pain or something like that.
He stay very rigid.
Now I change the exercise and I
begin both by the, the morning
easy exercise from Baucher.
It's to put his maxil very soft, the-
Rupert Isaacson: Jaw flexions, yeah
⦠Luis Valenca: flexion,
the flexion, the flexion.
The horse, it finish so-so.
He go home and I tell
maybe tomorrow go better.
I come from lunch and I have
said to the boy, "Take the horse,
but change the, change that.
Put only a snaffle, a little-" Change
Rupert Isaacson: the bit, yeah
⦠Luis Valenca: And I take the horse, and
in the moment that I take the snaffle, the
horse have do that, huh, and say, "Ola."
And he have a lesson maybe 20 minutes,
and finish with his back more relaxed.
I don't pass to the other
exercise that he needs to do,
but I stay in that exercise, huh?
And that, it's to leave the problems
from the horses, and to try everything
that you have learned or, or do you have
leave, have in your experience and, or
you have seen with the, your masters, huh?
And to try to put in that, in
that, today it's in that horse,
to know if result without,
Sofia Valenca: Without force
Luis Valenca: without force, huh?
The, the, you know, in the morning
the horse when he have, I think
that he have pain in the back, huh?
And in the end when I do the flexion
sometimes he stay very rigid, and with
the hand he do that but very soft, huh?
Like he tell me-
Sofia Valenca: Stop
⦠Luis Valenca: stop
because I have pain, huh?
It's the same.
Now in the afternoon I change everything.
The, the bride I put another I be, I be,
I do the, the same exercise, and the horse
never do that sign that he have the pain.
And if he needs maybe 10 minutes,
you got to see tomorrow, huh?
And that I have come from the
lunch with that in my head.
I got to try to do that, da, da, da, da.
Sofia Valenca: Like-
And, and you know what?
He will not sleep tonight because
tomorrow he wants to know ⦠if it
has result what we have been doing.
Luis Valenca: But you know,
is Nunu it's that, you know, I
have a, a s- a story with theâ¦
I have positive stories,
sometimes negative that he never
tell that it's negative, huh?
But one time he buy, he buy old
time horses, not very good horses.
It's horses more cheap because
he don't have much money.
But after maybe one month work, he
don't work all, you work all in the
same system, but the, the, the, the
way that he, he take the horses, it's
different one from the others, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: And one
time he take one horse
I have here.
I, I do not know here the, the photos.
No?
It's here.
It's the chest.
The chest
Rupert Isaacson: I can't see
that horse, but maybe describe
and tell us who that horse was.
Luis Valenca: It's Bunker.
Rupert Isaacson: Ah, Bunker.
Yes.
Luis Valenca: It's, there
Rupert Isaacson: was- I read about Bunker.
Luis Valenca: Yeah ⦠Bunker.
Because Nuno want one horse from the
north of Europe, the blood different
to, to know, because everybody tell,
"Ah, you have only Iberian horses
and, you know, you can try it."
And he goes and they buy that horse.
The story to buy that horse,
it's very interesting.
He goesâ¦
You know, there are one man in Belgium.
It's Mr.
Alex Wilms.
It's in the, in that time.
I speak there are 35,
40 years before, huh?
It's the only one that have permission
to import horses from Russian.
And it's a big friend from Nuno Oliveira.
And one day he tell, "I have
take 12 horses from Russian.
All the horses from the
type from the German horses.
Come to see."
And we have go to, to see the the foals.
It's the, there are horse,
the three years old.
And he have invited
Mr.
Andrade, a big friend.
It's the best, the best breeder in-
Rupert Isaacson: Andrade is a
name to conjure with in the- Yes
Lusitano
Luis Valenca: horse
Rupert Isaacson: world.
Yeah,
Luis Valenca: yeah.
Andrade.
We have invited Michelle Henrique.
We have invited,
Sofia Valenca: Helene
Luis Valenca:
Arianoff ⦠Helene Arianoff.
It's Olympic French that is big performer.
Mm-hmm.
And they have to see the horses.
And Mr.
Willemse sh- show the horses free
in the riding hall And the, there
are, I don't know, I think that
there are seven or 10 horses.
In the end, Nuno tell, "Now you go,"
the, the people that he have invited,
"You go out because I got to choose the
horse only with my friend Williamson."
And they have go.
Maybe one hour after they return
and they tell to Henrique,
"What I say I have choice?"
Henrique tell, "Sure, there are a Palomino
that moves very well with a pal- a
very good constitution, the, his body."
Sofia Valenca: Morphology.
Luis Valenca: Morphology.
"We have choice the Palomino.
Sure, now."
He tell, "No, you don't
understand anything about horse."
He tell it after it's very strong.
And after he tell to, to Arianov,
he, he tell the other, "No one-
Sofia Valenca: Have guest
⦠Luis Valenca: have guest."
And he, he tell, "You know, I have choice.
The worst from the group to have the
possibility to know a horse from that
origin, and not a good configuration if my
system and my method can have solution."
Now he buy Bunker.
Bunker.
And he tell Helen Arianov, "Now
you take the horse to your place.
You go to break Maxie."
Sofia Valenca: Just to break down.
You know, when they start,
Rupert Isaacson: Just the starting, yeah.
As you know, if you followed any of
my work, I'm an autism dad and we have
a whole career before this podcast in
helping people with neurodivergence,
either who are professionals in the field.
Are you a therapist?
Are you a caregiver?
Are you a parent?
Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?
When my son, Rowan, was
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I really didn't know what to do.
So I reached out for mentorship, and
I found it through an amazing adult
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And she told me what to do.
And it's been working so
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That not only is my son basically
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countless, countless thousands
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Working in schools, working at
home, working in therapy settings.
If you would like to learn this
cutting edge, neuroscience backed
approach, it's called Movement Method.
You can learn it online, you
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It's almost laughably simple.
The important thing is to begin.
Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.
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Go to this website, newtrailslearning.
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Take the online movement method course.
It's in 40 countries.
Let us know how it goes for you.
We really want to know.
We really want to help people like
me, people like you, out there
live their best life, to live
free, ride free, see what happens.
Luis Valenca: Yeah.
And after the horse go to Portugal.
Okay.
And the horse, and some days after,
two or three days, it he phone to Nuno.
"There are a problem.
The horse, one leg it's not e- equal
to the other, and the horse it's
configuration it's not very good."
And he tell, "Not mind.
Break the horse that if I want the horse."
And the horse more two or three
days after she phone, "Nuno, it's
impossible because he have a problem.
I think that he have a
spare in the left leg."
And then I go to tell to the
veterinarian, and he tell, "Jamais."
To him- Never ⦠never.
Because the veterinarian go to
tell that the horse have that,
that, that, and I want the horse
because he's a little thing.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Luis Valenca: Send me the horse to
Portugal, and the horse go to Portugal.
And I have see when the horse arrive,
I, I look the horse and I tell,
"That man is completely crazy."
Because the horse is somethingâ¦
Everything gets bad in the horse.
The neck is like that.
The g- the, the cross it's like that.
The, the, the left-
Sofia Valenca: Horse is built upside down
⦠Luis Valenca: the left leg- Yeah ⦠the
left leg it's not equal to the right
leg, and he begin to ride the horse toâ¦
And I have sit the first six months.
You know, maybe the first,
the first two months
He ride the horse in a little vault.
Vault, vault.
After he begin to open that vault, huh?
After he begins the lesson with some
flexions and mobilizations of the back.
Attention, in six months the
horse, he have the basic work.
He have more, it's more fat.
The morphology, it's a- Is
Rupert Isaacson: rounder, yeah
Sofia Valenca: And
Luis Valenca: I can tell you, one year
after, the horse, it's somethingâ¦
It's the horse that I
have seen in my life.
When he died, the horse
stay to, to his grandson.
Grandson.
And the horse do a work, but
they do five change one time.
He do something that I have seen
much time to horses to do that, but
they are taught to do that with like,
Sofia Valenca: The transitions
Luis Valenca: the transitions, for
example, the piaffe passage, and
after Spanish trot into Spanish
trot like, like we have in the Lupe.
In the cloud.
In a something like that.
And I have tell, that is fantastic
how, how that man arrive.
And all time the reins, I have here
the, the, the, the photos, the reins.
They are notâ¦
They are in contact, but a soft contact.
And one day, you know, when sometimes
when you want to speak with Nuno about,
about the, the system and, and the things
that he do with the horses, you need
to, to choice the better moment, huh?
If you go to tell, he stay.
And one day he come from the
other side of the, the, the Tejo.
We have the, the river.
Rupert Isaacson: The river, yeah.
Luis Valenca: The Tejo.
Rupert Isaacson: The bridge.
The Tagus.
Luis Valenca: Come, he come with
me in the, in the car, and much
conversation, and that's it.
That is the moment.
And I tell, "You know, you know, Nuno,
what you have do f- is fantastic to,
to put that horse completely- Contrary
to that the nature have give to him
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm
Luis Valenca: And he, he, he look me,
smile, and he tell, "You know, Luiz,
if not our friend Boschi, I don't
arrive to the rest of the horse."
Attention.
And I have tell, "But
the horse is not Boschi."
He said, "No, but you know
Boschi, it's like the antibiotic.
Five days it's enough."
Yeah.
And all the problems from the, the,
the mind of the horse, I have transfer.
I, I, I remember that conversation, and
it's because today I have to with the
horse that have problems, you see, I go
to try to have, you know, the to learn
in this, in our life is to have the
examples from moments that you have lived-
Sofia Valenca: Experienced
Luis Valenca: before
the experience from that.
Rupert Isaacson: It's very interesting.
I remember you guys showing me and
Ileana, my wife some of the jaw flexions,
and we went back to Texas where we
were living at the time and worked
those flexions with several horses
that had problems in the stifle, that
had problems in the pelvis, and that
had problems in the shoulder and neck
In each case, these horses which
were stiff and not just stiff in
the body, but stiff in the mind
Luis Valenca: In the mind, yes
Rupert Isaacson: they all came
to the piaffe, the passage, the
changes probably within about
nine to 16 months after you
had shown us not just that, but
of course many other things.
And you're very modest because I keep
trying in this interview to nail you down,
'cause I'm a journalist, on your system,
and you keep, like a modest man- No
because this is who you are,
telling us about your masters.
So I'm going to- But I will,
you know- It's important.
It's important, for sure.
Sofia Valenca: One sec.
I was going to tell you that
Yeah ⦠just before you mentioned that
your question is not forgotten, for-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm ⦠for-
Sofia Valenca: forgot- ⦠got.
Rupert Isaacson: Strong verb, yes.
Sofia Valenca: But and about the method.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Sofia Valenca: Because the passion he
has drives him to tell The stories that-
Rupert Isaacson: And it's beautiful
⦠Sofia Valenca: I know you like.
It's beautiful.
Beautiful.
And but I can talk about the method in
a way that the same way he talks about
his masters, I can have the joy of saying
that I have my master here next to me.
And I didn't read the books he did.
I was very fortunate that every single
day I have a living library next to me.
So when we have a problem,
we don't open a book.
We just go like, "Come on, help us here.
What's the problem?"
So we learn-
Luis Valenca: Attention
⦠Sofia Valenca: we learn without
even knowing we are learning.
Yeah.
And the method, the way we learn
it, was in a such a natural way- Mm
that I have to say that you were the
one that brought the idea of putting
it in a way that what is a method?
It is a thing that if you
do it in a certain way, you
will achieve the same result.
Of course, we don't work with
machines, so we cannot just do
it every time the single way.
Sure.
You have the basics, and if you under- But
Rupert Isaacson: there are certain rules
of thumb, and then one can- There are.
There are ⦠be flexible within that.
Yes, absolutely.
Sofia Valenca: Like primary school
has rules that should be there so
that the kids, they can learn that,
the, how to read and how to write,
but every kid will learn differently.
And if you take them
all the same way, in 10
Luis Valenca: kids-
Sofia Valenca: Sure ⦠six will
succeed, the other four will not succeed.
So I think what is the most important
thing about the method is that learn how
to read the student you have to work with.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Sofia Valenca: Learn how to
understand what is the message you
want to pass and teach your horse.
Stick to a simple language-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Sofia Valenca: and you will succeed
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
You know, when I was, when I first
met my wife, Ileana, and I was doing
all my work with autism and which
became Horse Boy Method, she said to
me, 'cause she's German, "Oh, you have
a very systematic approach, Rupert."
And I said, "No.
No, I don't.
It's very intuitive.
It's veryâ¦"
Da-da.
She said, "No, no, I watch you.
You do that, you do that, you do
that, you do that, and you do that."
Yeah.
And then in m- first I was like, "Mm."
And then I was like, "You know what?
Actually she's right."
And actually that's a good thing
because it means this can be replicated.
So-
Sofia Valenca: Further.
Rupert Isaacson: Youâ¦
Luis Valenca: You know the modern things?
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, is
that your cellphone going
Luis Valenca: off?
Oh, I don't know.
I
Rupert Isaacson: don't know.
The tyranny of the cellphone.
But hey, without that tyranny of the
modern things, we could not be having
this conversation, so sometimes it's good.
All right, but Señor Luis, I'm gonnaâ¦
And you can, you can just make
sure I get this right, Sofia.
I'm sure you're gonna tell me it's
wrong because y- you do often.
But I stood next to you Luis.
And at your shoulder, you explained
to me, "Okay, once we've established
our communication with the horses,
we're going to lunge him in these th-
three ways that progressively will
build his body and his mind, and his
balance, and his rhythm, and his muscle.
And then, Rupert, we're going to work
him in hand in two basic patterns.
One with the haunches going around
the shoulders, and the other with the
shoulders going around the haunches.
And this will eventually flower, these
two things, into six things, which will
become those six laterals that we all
use, the leg yield, the shoulder in,
the counter shoulders in, the half-pass,
the travers, the half-pass, the renvers.
And then, Rupert, from those things
other things will flower because
then we will use these things
in combination with each other.
And from these will come things
like the piaffe and the passage,
the changes, et cetera."
And I watched it and went, "Oh my God.
Yes, I see that."
And then I thought, "Ah, but
can I r- r- reproduce that?
I don't know."
And we went home, and we did.
And we were astonished.
What was so astonishing was it wasn't
just that you showed us how to do those
things, and explained also who taught
you those things and where they had
come from, but as you said, Sophia,
you can't just take a system and apply
it to an every child, every horse.
But what you can do is you can take a
basic concept and say, "If I can be very
flexible within that concept," and say,
yes, different children learn different
ways, but there are some ways of, say,
learning to read or some ways of learning
numbers that are more or less universal.
And then if you end up with a son like
my son, okay, you have to really rethink.
But you're still following back to,
you talked about love, pleasure.
I had to make sure with my son
that anything I did followed his
interests and gave him pleasure.
And then when that had happened, I could
think about applying those universals,
but only in a way that suited him.
And I watched you guys doing
that with horses, and I went,
"Oh my God, this is, this is it."
But will it work at home?
Or is it just that Señor Luis is a genius
and okay, his kids are great because
they grew up with him, okay, fine.
And these horses are very
talented, okay, fine.
But when I went home to my backyard
quarter horses, to my messed up,
traumatized donated Thoroughbreds and
other things, and I did those things
that I just described that you guys
had shown me, it worked, and it worked
universally because there was flexibility.
And you had also said, "Oh, Rupert,
if it doesn't work like this, then
think about doing it like this."
And, and then later a few times when I
ran into problems, I contacted you guys
and said, "Oh, well, I've got a problem."
And you said, "Oh, yes, I had
a horse like that in 1978, and
you have to do it like this
Mm-hmm That universality is something
incredibly precious, and I think that you
guys don't give yourself enough credit.
I travel in 40 countries.
I work in 40 countries, not just
with autism and the brain, but with
horses, and I see many good people.
Many.
Many.
Luis Valenca: There are much good people.
Rupert Isaacson: But I have
never seen this universality.
And you yourself, Sophia, you go around
in about 40 countries now and you're
encountering every type of breed.
So it's not just the Lusitano horse,
and you're applying this and I see
you get these wonderful results.
So-
Be a little immodest now.
It's okay, it's allowed.
You guys are kind of good at what you do,
and the world does actually need this.
I'll tell you why the world
needs this at the moment.
We are in danger.
Our art is in danger.
There are people who think we should not
ride horses, we should not own horses, we
should not use any equipment with horses.
We should not, we should not.
And this has come stronger and stronger in
recent years, and with some good reason.
I will use a bad word.
The dressage world is
a bit of a harsh world.
It's a world of assholes.
It has been.
It, it has itself to blame for taking
a rigid, ugh, hierarchical, autocratic
view, giving horses a hard time, and the
public eventually saying, "You know what?
We don't like it."
Sofia Valenca: The problem
Rupert Isaacson: is the- You guys
have a solution to this, you do,
and I'd like you to talk about this.
You do have a solution to this.
Luis Valenca: It's- You, you
know only one thing, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Luis Valenca: Dressage is competition.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: Moment there are
competition, the man, the rider,
it's more strong than the horse.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Luis Valenca: And he force the horse to go
in the points that he, he want to go, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: We have a big example now,
one boy that have the same ideas, the same
system, the same basic teachers, huh, that
it's now in the modern competition, it's,
Sofia Valenca: Justef Spoelman
Luis Valenca: Justef.
You know Justef?
That he have- The Belgian
Rupert Isaacson: dude.
Yeah
⦠Luis Valenca: that he have the,
the horse, it's the Oni- Janique.
Janique, huh?
You know?
You see that horse?
And that is example, if you
have the, the system soft-
Rupert Isaacson: Mm
⦠Luis Valenca: without force
it, you can arrive there, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: 100%.
Because
Luis Valenca: he will have in his mind
that I need to stay in the first in theâ¦
You stay in the first or in, in the, the
second because the horse have to do things
well in the, a, a new, a new system.
But that, that boy- His teacher, it's Mr.-
Sofia Valenca: It's Leopold Gombert
⦠Luis Valenca: Leopold, Leopold Gombert.
It is a, a rider that work
with, with Nuno Oliveira.
And he have all ⦠He ⦠The basic,
he have everything from the, the
soft way, the, the, the good system.
And he have put in their horse, he,
and he have the result that you see.
Yes.
I have yours to do sometimes he does
fantastic pirouettes with the reins soft.
That, and sometimes the boy, he
smile because he have pleasure, huh?
Mm-hmm.
Like except the ⦠It's all the
others, it's the, the, the ⦠In that
moment, I have seen now the, the World
Championship in the television, huh?
It's fantastic horses, huh?
And fantastic riders.
Everything, it's the best
that I have seen in my life.
But it's in another, in another theater.
Theater.
Mm-hmm.
I am in another theater more,
more single, more quiet.
That you ⦠In, in our system, you
need to, to profit the, the work
from each, not each day, each second,
huh, that your should give you.
And that give to you a
big, a big heart, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Mm.
Sofia Valenca: Not ego.
Luis Valenca: The-
Sofia Valenca: Big heart, not the ego.
Luis Valenca: I've big ⦠My
English, it's terrible.
Sofia Valenca: No, you do, you speak well.
Luis Valenca: But when I, I speak
about something that I like,
maybe God give me s- the words.
Sometimes not correct,
Sofia Valenca: but- But,
Luis Valenca: That's important
⦠Sofia Valenca: about the world, and
you were mention a very important
subject, is that a, the world is going
to a direction that people thinks that
the horses, they need to be in, not
ridden, not using this, not using that.
I have to tell you that what happens to
a, a person that has not a job, has not
a purpose in life, has nothing that will
make him think, and the only thing he will
have is food available and a bed to sleep.
What you think it will
happen to this person?
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I think
we see it in our society.
So we, we- A lot
we see, we see- So this person- ⦠a
crisis in mental health, yes.
Sofia Valenca: He will
be very, very depressive.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.
Sofia Valenca: He will see the
world in, in a very gray, dark way,
and we see this with the horses.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Sofia Valenca: The horses,
they need a purpose.
They love, they need to love.
We need to, to give them the joy of
learning how, how to, to, to be happy.
And, and we see this with our older
horses that live the life with us, and
for different reasons, imagine they cannot
keep working because, you know, age.
A horse, they get, they start to get
old, and sometimes they start to really
have difficulties with the severe
arthritis that they cannot work anymore.
And if we send them to a field and
just leave them there, they will beâ¦
They will die.
They will die.
They need, they need the
contact with the man.
They need to feel that they still
have a role in this society.
They love when we make them think.
This is something that a lot
of riders, they don't think.
When we ride, you make a horse think.
You need to make him be aware of how to
put the feet here or there, on how to
sustain his own balance, on how toâ¦
We need to make them think.
And and that brings them the joy.
Mm.
It's like the same now, my father,
imagine now he's retired, he
doesn't need to work anymore.
Can this man be home and no longer
have the joy of doing what he loves?
He will be depressive.
The same happens with the horses,
and the, the society, they don't
understand, or if they think a horse
just to be in the field, it's because
they have never, ever had the chance
or the happiness of really have a
boundary with a horse that it's unique.
A
Rupert Isaacson: bond with a horse.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
As you may know, if you've been following
my work, we are also horsey folk here.
And we have been training horses for
many, many years in the manner of
the old classical dressage masters.
This is something which is
often very confusing for people.
We shine a light on that murky, difficult
stuff and make it crystal clear.
If you'd like to learn to train your
horse in the manner of the old masters and
really have fun and joy for you and your
equine, go to our website, heliosharmony.
com Sign up as a premium member.
and begin to take the Helios Harmony
course, which will take you from zero
to the Piaf, where the horse is dancing
on the spot in hand on the ground.
And then from there, you can
develop out to anywhere you want to.
Heliosharmony.
com to unlock the secrets
of the old masters.
Luis Valenca: There's one thing.
When you speak about all that system,
to love, to da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
It's notâ¦
There are something very
straight in the middle.
Never take the personality
from the horse The personality.
Eh?
The personality, the, how
you tell the person, his per-
Sofia Valenca: Personality
⦠Luis Valenca: personality from yours.
You need to go in this personality that
yours understand what you love to speak
with this, with, with this system.
Is because, for example, in
our horses Iberian horses,
not all can do the exercise.
Pres- for example, my horse,
Zagalo, there are years before.
It's a horse that never do a good piaffe,
and there are a moment I have tell,
"But I don't touch anymore the piaffe."
And he develop all the, his,
things that he have, that he have
ground and that he have fantastic-
Sofia Valenca: Fantastic
Luis Valenca: Top, it's top with
the exercise that he do well.
Not there are a poet that, that
tell not all the mens can do the
same quality of his specialty.
He don't can do several
specialty, huh, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: But he need all the things
that he do, he needs to, to have much
interest, much how you say in English
Put to all- Passion?
all this passion in, in the-
Sofia Valenca: In what he does
⦠Luis Valenca: in what it does, it does.
And with the artist it's the same,
because when you speak about this,
I may be it's only to give sugar.
Oh, my ⦠No, no, it's not, huh?
That it's not.
It's not, huh?
With the children it's the same.
Take a chocolate.
Mm.
"Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't count.
Take a chocolate."
No, no you, you, you don't ⦠You work
⦠You, you eat one chocolate, it's enough.
"I want more now."
You got to speak about another thing.
Da, da, da, da, da.
And with the artist the same, huh?
Sofia Valenca: Respect
Luis Valenca: his personality
⦠Sofia Valenca: respect him,
Luis Valenca: but his personality- Do
Sofia Valenca: not break his
Luis Valenca: personality
His personality, it's- Got it
it's the life of the horse.
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
No, absolutely.
It's, I mean, we know that horses
have been bred now selectively for
at least 6,000 years for the horses
that seek contact with humans.
Because the horses that did not seek
this contact, nobody in the Bronze
Age would breed that horse because
that would be very impractical.
So we've now ended up with horses,
with dogs, with other animals that
actively seek the contact with the
human, and this is a beautiful thing.
And but nonetheless the public perception
in some places, not everywhere, but
in some places, is that the very
act of sitting on the horse, the
very act of domesticating the horse,
is somehow now an act of abuse.
And unfortunately, with the media
this has been exacerbated, let's say.
And particularly within
the dressage world.
And that yet, here you guys stand where
you prioritize love, you prioritize joy,
and you prioritize pleasure for the horse.
And I've seen it, and then I've taken what
you showed me and seen that it was also
in all the old books by all the dead guys,
and they said basically do the same thing.
And I watched horses go
from depressed to joyful.
I watched horses go from
arthritic to reverse aged.
I watched horses go from depressed to
interested and engaged and fulfilled.
And
Sofia Valenca: it's one of
the- Yeah ⦠beautiful-
Rupert Isaacson: This is
something that you really have
to offer the world, I, I, I feel.
And you guys are-
Sofia Valenca: And our clients that
come and visit us and spend their
time here with us, 'cause we, we
also promote these weeks where people
come and emerge here to- Mm-hmm
learn our method.
It's a common sense that everybody
says that the horses are happy.
The environment, it's,
it's, it's a nice energy.
And mostly of our horses are
stallions, but they all live in
a very peace and harmony way.
So it's, it's- It's here.
It's what people genuinely,
genuinely, genuinely- Mm
I don't know
Rupert Isaacson: Genuinely
⦠Sofia Valenca: genuinely, Yeah ⦠feel
when they, when they come to us.
And and if you're listening to
this podcast and you have been
here, I think you can people can,
Rupert Isaacson: There's a reason why
people go back to you and back to you-
Sofia Valenca: Yeah ⦠and
Rupert Isaacson: back to you
Sofia Valenca: We, we have a
lot of repeaters that come and
Luis Valenca: yes.
We have a lot, a lot of friends.
A lot of people from our religion, huh?
You know?
It's the re- I do ⦠it's
something like that.
We have speak about music.
We have speak about philosophy, and
now we speak about religion, huh?
That it's a religion.
Sofia Valenca: But it's
a very open religion.
Luis Valenca: Yeah.
Sofia Valenca: Not that if you don't
follow this religion we have to kill you.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, let's talk about
that because some of the, as you know,
some of the dressage religions that are
out there are very exclusive and will tell
people, "It's this way and only this way,
and if you do anything else, you're out."
And unfortunately, we know that
dressage attracts or can attract a
certain controlling personality type.
It's a sad truth, but it's a truth.
And then the joyful refugees from
that end up at the Valenca's.
And then it's not a cult,
because cults are exclusive.
It's a s- let's call it a spirituality,
I would say, that's inclusive.
And we found this.
You know, I had been so used to
showing up at dressage places.
And, you know, for the listeners and the
viewers who don't know the Valenca stuff,
when you go into their arena, you will see
horses in capriole, you will see horses in
courbette, and you'll also see a complete
beginner over there doing something else,
and then you'll see an old man over there
doing something else, and then you'll
see a kid with a pony, and then you'll
see a, someone doing one times tempis.
And it's all the same
people doing the same thing.
And by the way, you're gonna see people
with special needs, and you're going to
see Ah, in all inclusive, what you're not
going to see is walking into some high
prestige exclusive thing where people
are like, "You know, we are the dressage
people, and you know, we're big and you're
small, and, you know, give us your money
while we tell you how shit you are."
You know, and you know, which
unfortunately is, is, is often the case.
And, and I think whatâ¦
It's not just that.
When people leave, they leave you
with genuine tools, a toolbox that
they can take home, and th- this
is, this is rather exceptional.
Yeah, it is.
Sofia Valenca: It's the
tools- ⦠you can take home.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Sofia Valenca: And we always say it's
because when people come here, they
already have passed through other
experience or other methods, and we
always, we like to say that all methods
have something good to teach you.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Sofia Valenca: And,
Luis Valenca: I- I-
Sofia Valenca: you know-
You just have to design-
Luis Valenca: What, what-
⦠Sofia Valenca: what you like
more and create your own method
⦠Luis Valenca: I, I respect all
the, the, the methods, huh?
Mm.
Because it i- it's if a master do one
system, you need to respect because
he have put his life to the horses.
Maybe he, his ideas it is that one.
I respect.
I have my ideas.
I love my ideas.
I sleep well with my ideas, huh?
And I try that the people come
and, and to have that experience.
He, he, he come to sleep better.
I, I have some examples in the
last month, some ladies that come
there are a group, one of the
ladies tell, "I am professional."
Okay.
And, and the other, "I
don't know anything.
I, I am a lit- I am a little afraid."
There are three ladies in that moment.
And you see that the, the
professional have big problems, huh?
Force, ta, ta, ta.
Huh?
And the lady that tell, "I
don't know anything," in two,
three lessons it's theâ¦
It's not the best, but it's that have
the best results with the horses, huh?
And in the end of, I'd give
example, a live example of
that week that we passed here.
All the three have s- smile, you know?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: The, the,
the, the professional smile.
He don't smile the first days.
Smile.
And they have do some exercise in, with
the three horses that they tell, "I never
think that I am be able to do that," huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Luis Valenca: And it's, it's people
with maybe 50, 60 years old, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Absolutely.
So
Luis Valenca: I, I have example
There are much years before I
have here a fantastic horse.
The name is Serchado.
It's a horse that he have, when he's
young, he have a big problem when
his, with his tank because he have
put he have cut the tank, he have a
surgery, he have all time the problem.
But that horse is dressed with our
system, and it's my doctor who is
the doctor that ride that horse
And one day you go to do
a, a show in Ita- Italy.
It's the Echoes from Milano.
It's a big event with horses.
And there are a man, a old man that
want to buy my horse, Sultan, and I
tell, "No, I don't sell the Sultan."
After, some days after, he
phone me, "And the gray.
The gray is a shadow.
It's a gray, dark gray, yeah."
And I tell, "That one, maybe.
It's only a way that you come here if you
are be able to, to stay with the horse
because it horse with much temperament."
"Okay, I go."
And he come here with a man.
It's Mr.
Raggett.
It's the trainer from the
Olympic group of Liechtenstein.
Mr.
Raggett is a little man
like that, very nice man.
He ride the horse, and I remember
in the long side there, he do
piaffe in the, in the corner.
He do a trot-
Sofia Valenca: Extended trot
⦠Luis Valenca: extended trot.
In the end of the wall,
he stay in piaffe, huh?
And after he stopping, he do that.
You know, Miss Helenis, I never feeling in
my life something like that, so stopped.
I've, I, I think, and you have to, huh?
It's a Olympic, it's a Olympic rider, huh?
The example.
They buy the horse.
They buy the horse, and the
horse go to Lynch and sign to Mr.
Raggett ride the horse during some time.
One year after, they phone me, tell
there are the championship from
Europe dressage in, in Switzerland,
and Raggett go with the horse
And I have go with my
wife to see that festival.
We have do that.
It's not the first ones because you
know all the, all the, all the, the
riders, they are German or speak ones.
You have the racket with the shot.
It's, it's not a, not very little, but
it's also one meter 60, yeah And after
that, the horses go to the proprietary
to Milano, because it stay one year
there to, to, to, to have some- Yeah
Sofia Valenca: dressage Dressage.
Luis Valenca: Some s-
dressage competition.
And the proprietary that, the,
from the horse, it's a, a old man.
It's, it's a Italian.
It's a Capitan Pellegrino, huh?
It's a man, a special man.
He tell me, "You know, I am Polo-
Sofia Valenca: Player
⦠Luis Valenca: player.
I don't do more player for player,
but I want one horse dress.
When there are big championship,
maybe in the, in the
Sofia Valenca: In the break
Luis Valenca: in the break
I can present the horse."
And said, "Okay, okay."
The horse have go one
year after to Milan to Mr.
Ragit.
But Mr.
Ragit
Sofia Valenca: is- Pellegrini.
Luis Valenca: Pellegrino.
Pellegrino.
Mr.
Pellegrino is a very fat, very specialâ¦
Okay.
Sofia Valenca: He was not that fat.
Luis Valenca: One day, some, some
weeks after, I am in the riding hall.
It's a Saturday.
And they tell, "Mr.
Pellegrino is the telephone.
Go quickly."
I come here, and he tell me,
"You know, Valença, I have
big problem with the horse.
The horse play with me.
He do what he want.
I go to, to castrate toâ¦"
How we tell?
Sofia Valenca: Gelding.
Luis Valenca: Gelding the horse.
Gelding.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
" Luis Valenca: The next Wednesday.
We maybe because after I force him,
the horse is to kick, he put up.
I have big problems.
Attention, Pellegrino,
don't do that, huh?"
I take the fly, and the
Sun- Monday I am here.
I am at Milano to see what happened.
And I have taken the fly with my doctor.
And you go to the big riding center.
The, I don't remember theâ¦
And Pellegrino is there with a
costume, very English with the, the,
the, the, the, the Mexican Kazakh-
Rupert Isaacson: The hacking
jacket, the tweed jacket
Luis Valenca: present.
Sofia Valenca: Right, yes.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
The hack.
Luis Valenca: The horses go and see.
I go to ride the horse to see.
And he ride the horse.
The moment that he ride the
horse, he take the reins.
The horse kick in the wall, pa, pa.
In the and Pellegrino, "You see, huh?
And to do that, you don't have
do one vault in the riding hall."
And I say, "What happened?"
My doctor, he's there, and it's
the corner begin to cry because
it's, it's the horse fall, huh?
And I have tell
Pellegrino, "Wait a moment.
Can my doctor ride the
horse five minutes?"
"Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Come here."
And we go Pet the horse, give the smell.
The horse understand who is, who
is that is, is, is rider
She ride the horse and she have
do all the program from the
horse that he do before, huh?
No, nothing, nothing different, huh?
And Mr.
Pellegrini is the corner cry.
And he tell, "You have reason.
It's not to, to getting the
horse that reason, it's me
that I am a bad, a bad rider.
I am very strong because I doâ¦
I play polo, and that horse, it's a horse.
In Filigran my horse are very fine, huh?
The horse, it's the horse
from your doctor," da, da, da.
And we have take dinner in a
restaurant that are in the riding,
in the, that riding center.
And during the first five
minutes everybody cry.
Pellegrino cry, my doctor cry.
And I have to that is the stop
because I begin to cry too, huh?
And Pellegrini tell, "You know,
the horse, it's the rider from the
horse it's your doctor, not me.
Now you need to take
the horse in Portugal."
And I have tell, "It's impossible
because the money of the horse,
I have building my house.
I don't have."
"No, no, you don't understand.
In that moment, I offer
the horse to your doctor."
And he have give the horse, a
horse that he have paid some
millions, huh, to my doctor.
And the horse have returned
here in Portugal, and we have do
some competition with the horse.
What happened?
The horse have refused the bad, the badâ¦
It's not the bad, but- Was
Sofia Valenca: too much pressure
⦠Luis Valenca: this pressure-
Yeah ⦠from that man.
In the moment that he have, that he
have feeling my doctor, it allow him.
It's like the sky that open, and he have
do a exhibition, fantastic exhibition in,
in Milan with the, with, with me, huh?
That horse it could later
he have died here, old.
And that it's a story from the, the way
that you need to communicate with the
horses, and the horses give you return.
They do.
That good communication or
the bad communication, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: They do.
Luis Valenca: They do.
With Pellegrini give the bad communication
with Kiki and in the moment that my doctor
ride the horse, he remember the old time
that he have passed here, and he give back
Rupert Isaacson: all.
Now, it's an interesting
story because theâ¦
I think one of the mistakes there, and
it's a mistake we have all made, I have
made it many times, but I largely stopped
making it after I spent time with you,
which was- I realized that it was the
work in hand, it was the work on the
ground that established the clarity,
established everything, and the softness.
And particularly if you're like
me and you're not a particularly
talented rider, I'm okay, but, you
know, I don't have to pretend to
be a particularly talented rider.
In fact, for me, one of the proofs of
your system is that I can approach itâ¦
I was a pretty late comer to this
whole dressage classical thing.
My background was not in that.
In fact, I only came to it because of
my story with autism and finding that
horses in soft collection made first
my son and then other kids like my
son communicate because of oxytocin.
So then I needed to learn
more, and I needed to get
therapy horses going like this.
So the fact that even somebody like
me could end up doing all those
things that you just described,
things like piaffe into an extended
trot to piaffe, and think, "My God.
How is this possible?"
It's possible because
the system is so good.
And it, y- you guys really showed me,
you know, don't ride through problems.
Establish communication with horses.
Learn how to teach them everything
you're going to do when you
ride them before you ride them.
Then add a rider with somebody on
the ground to transfer what the
horse knows from the ground to
the monkey sitting on the back.
We call it now ground monkey and
sky monkey, and, 'cause that's
the horse's experience of us.
We're monkeys, right?
And then suddenly the
horse is like, "Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
I get that.
I accept."
And you guys really showed me
that, and I've seen you show
so many other people that.
And through you, I have shown enough
people that, and I'm incredibly grateful
because when I'm working with autistic
people or people with trauma or whatever,
they are not trying to be good riders.
That's not w- what they, that's not
why they are entering the, the theater.
They want healing.
They want amelioration.
And the horse that you showed me how to
produce gives them that amelioration.
And you've talked about Bea, your, B,
your your other daughter, and you've
also t- Philippa, and you've talked
to, obviously we've got Sophia here.
There's a daughter we haven't
talked about, which is Philippa,
who also is part of the team.
Philippa also really showed me, and
my wife Illiana, with great clarity
and great patience in my case the work
on the ground as well, and then how
to translate that into the saddle.
And so when people come and
they work with you, they get the
chance to work with this wholeâ¦
It's tribal.
They get to work with this
intergenerational tribe of
people who all know how to
communicate the system really well.
And Philippa, she's so
humble, she's so modest.
I, I want to get her on this podcast
as well, and we'll probably have to
chain her to the chair because, y-
you know, she has very little ego.
But noneâ¦
And then, you know, th- maybe they'll also
work with your daughter, you know, Sophia,
with Inez, your granddaughter Luis.
And people get the benefit of this
in a way that I think it's unique.
And the horses also respond,
I think, because they're
part of this tribal system.
They're part of this.
Horses are tribal, right?
Horses are herd animals.
They live in tribes.
Humans are tribal.
The whole system that we all use now
began somewhere 4,000, 6,000 years ago
with tribes, people living in tents.
You know, grandad, mum,
grandma, granddaughter.
But these days it's rare
to find it like that.
You guys do offer it.
Mm.
But people still don't know about you.
Why?
Because there's no book.
So when people say, "Well, who is this Mr.
Valença?
Rupert, you tell me about this Mr.
Valença."
And I went onto the Xenophon Publishing
website and, but where is the book?
I see a book by this person, I see a
book by this, this German person, this
Danish person, this French person.
Where is the book?
I'm like, "You know, you're right.
There needs to be a book."
Luis Valenca: You know, there are no book,
but there are one thing very important.
There are a big family
All in the world of the horses
that understand the, the, the way
that you work with the horses.
And you have one people that
you don't have speak now
that don't ride, is my wife.
Mm.
Because my wife, all
this life there are- The
Rupert Isaacson: chief
of the clan, indeed, yes
⦠Luis Valenca: chief of the clan and you
have passed much- Yeah ⦠in the last.
He never tell me stop to do that.
Mm.
For example, in the years '74-
Mm ⦠with the revolution, I need
to go with the horses and my doctors,
the Sofia, you have four months.
You go to Spain.
After to Spain, you to
the island Canaries.
And all time my wife said, "No, you go.
You go, huh.
You go, huh."
Sofia Valenca: We go.
Luis Valenca: We go.
We go.
And all the family have go.
We passed three years there.
We have learned much things there.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Luis Valenca: We have learned
much things about about horses and
about tourism with the horses, huh?
And it's very important to have that chief
that give the, the- Mm ⦠impulsion.
I speak now impulsion, that, that
give the impulsion to stay in the
same, in the same circle, huh?
And the circle, it's horses, live with
the horses, and do the same work that you
do in the beginning of his life, now more
in with more experience, huh, and more-
it's like the, the player for music,
the pi- pianista, in the beginning is
very, very strong and very fantastic.
Now in the end of his life they have more,
the, the fingers- Softer ⦠more softer.
Right.
And it's my wife that give that it's
the big ship of that big circle-
Sofia Valenca: Of the-
⦠Luis Valenca: family
⦠Sofia Valenca: of the clan.
But also, I think the way we grow
up, learning how to respect horses,
because we need to respect horses
if we want their respect back, and
that love, you just don't learn how
to respect horses or to love horses.
Yeah.
It's so
Rupert Isaacson: true.
Sofia Valenca: It's, it's
a way of being in life.
It's a way of respecting the family
the importance of the family, the
love that family will give you.
And if y- if you are like that in life,
life is- Mm ⦠it's much, it's better.
It's more, you have more
colors in your life.
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.
Sofia Valenca: You learn how
to be respecting others, loving
others, and it's not just about
the horses, but we, we kind ofâ¦
Our school was learning and growing
up respecting horses, and that
somehow have teach us how to be in,
in this world where the respect for
others, it's, it's very important.
And this is what gives the- That
feeling of a tribe because we
are like a tribe, like I said
Rupert Isaacson: And
your tribe is now global.
You know, I'm ju- I am
just one of the many.
And now I have lots of students,
and of course, what do I do?
I send every student I have to you because
that's just the obvious thing to do.
Go to the source.
Go to the source of the knowledge.
But so you have reached out
personally, but you've also
reached out through other people.
I am one of many people that you have
transmitted knowledge to, to make
life for horses and riders better.
But not just horses and riders,
also, like I say, people with
autism, people with trauma.
The, the, the techniques that
we use with the German Army
and their returning warriors.
The techniques that we use with the US Air
Force or the ex-Marine Corps from the UK.
The techniques that we
use with adult autists.
The techniques that we use w-
in the foster child system.
The techniques that we're
going to be starting to use in
the prison system quite soon.
The techniques that we use, You've
met Leanna Tank, you know, who does
our stuff who works in the criminal
justice system in Michigan with you
know, people with psychosis and so on.
All of these people, and the horses that
they work with, have been benefited,
I can tell you this, by you, Mr.
Valensa.
Luis Valenca: Amen.
Rupert Isaacson: And out
through your daughters, and
through you from your masters.
This is how it should be.
But I can tell you that your reach,
just through my organization alone, it's
about 300,000 people directly through.
And all of my people
go and learn with you.
Joelle Dunlap, Leanna Tank, Cheryl
Barto, everyone, they all, they all come
because it's the obvious thing to do.
And you give them the tools, and then
they go away and they use these tools,
not to just do piaffes and passages, not
just, not to get competition results.
But if they want to do that, that's fine.
But to really ameliorate the lives of
suffering humans and suffering equines
So the good news is, as you know, Mr.
Richard Williams, the publisher
of Xenophon Press, he very
much wants to do the book.
We must do the book.
You cannot not have the book
of the system out there.
So I'm going to be coming, and
we're going to be recording, and
w- we just ha- it has to be done.
You can't one day leave the
planet and have this not done.
It would be a great loss.
But before that book is made,
'cause it takes a while to put books
together, the good news is people
can come and learn with you directly,
and they can learn with you online.
So perhaps you can tell us,
how can people contact you?
How can they come?
And I can also promise you, listener,
and you, viewer, it's open to everybody.
It doesn't matter who you are.
Don't think, "Oh, I'm not good enough.
I can't go."
They don't give a shit.
They'll just welcome you with open
arms, and they will give you the tools.
All right, so h- so how,
how do people do it?
Sofia Valenca: Well, through our website
www.valenciaequestrianacademy.com.
Rupert Isaacson: Valença
Equestrian Academy.com.
Academy.
Yeah.
Sofia Valenca: Or yeah, in the website you
can find the, the email, or through the
social media, you know, even Sofia Valença
or Valença Classical Riding because
we couldn't change the name anymore.
But you, youâ¦
through Valença Classical Riding or
Valença Equestrian Academy, you will
find us in, in the social media as well.
And if you don't find us,
ask Rupert, 'cause he knows.
Rupert Isaacson: I'll tell you, yeah.
And of course, all those links
will be in the show notes.
As you know, I'm one of your many fans.
We're at about the two-hour mark.
Luis Valenca: We-
Rupert Isaacson: so before we close
there's two things I'd like to do.
One is I'd like to continue this
conversation not so much with a podcast,
but with a series of sh- perhaps shorter
conversations on YouTube with both of you
and with Filipa, I think where we can talk
about specific aspects of, ah, not just
training, but also the certain challenges
that people find with their horses.
And I'm gonna collect a bunch of those
questions and then bring them to you.
And with your permission, we will do those
because that will be helpful for people.
But before we close Ksenia
and Luiz, i- if you had
A parting remark.
If you had a piece of information
that you know that most
people with horses do not know
But need to know
What is it?
What is that thing?
Sofia Valenca: Tens alguma informação
sobre cavalos que achas que tu possas
dar ao mundo que os outros não têm?
Luis Valenca: You know, I finish our
conversation like you have beginner.
It's so easy and so difficult
communicate with the riders.
Easy because our system is very easy.
Sometimes complicated because the people
sometimes think that he knows everything.
I don't know anything.
I know that I love the horses.
I know what I need to put in the horses
in the moment that I dress the horses.
It's our system, our method.
But that people need to stay very open
and can heard our commentary about the
exercise that you do with the horses.
And the principal it's love, passion,
love, passion and passion and love.
Sofia Valenca: I would say learn how
to listen what your horse is saying.
Luis Valenca: You know, my horses,
principal the old ones that give lessons
all days, sometimes he give two lessons.
But normal he work only one time
because I respect the horses with some
some experience and, and it's not a baby.
It's five, six years old.
They have a little more.
But each time that they come to
the lesson, he come ⦠You know, I
have one thing when with the horse
that that my teacher horses, huh?
When I arrive in the riding
hall, I give a sugar or a carrot.
And in the end of the lesson,
I give a sugar or a carrot,
Rupert Isaacson: huh?
Luis Valenca: And the horses when they
enter in the riding hall, he know that
he going to have that surprise, huh?
And he communicate with you.
He arrive there, and he do that, and do
that because know that he begin a lesson
that, and I give, ⦠It's like the,
the ⦠It's like the children, huh?
It's like the children.
My, my little, little-
Sofia Valenca: Granddaughter.
Luis Valenca: Grand- Granddaug-
my grand granddaughter.
Rupert Isaacson: Great-great, yeah.
Luis Valenca: And the daughter.
All the time he tell, "Vovo, chocolate."
Yes.
In the hand, okay?
"Vovo, chocolate."
No.
In the hand.
And after I, I do another thing
in the ⦠When he finish to do
this, okay, now a little chocolate.
A little chocolate because chocolate
it's not good to the children, huh?
But it's not good because give,
give that possession that he like.
It's like the horses.
When you give a carrot, you give
one carrot in the beginning,
one carrot in the end.
If all time you give carrots,
the horses are not attentive.
They are attentive to the
carrots or to the sugar, huh?
But if you have space, it's Max, did you
The horses, he, he, he knows that
you have that gourmandise, huh?
But with discipline.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Luis Valenca: It's a way to impose
discipline without force, huh?
Rupert Isaacson: And with pleasure.
Luis Valenca: Yeah, pleasure, yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.
Luis Valenca: It's very good-
Well- ⦠that conversation, huh?
Thank you very much, huh.
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you,
and let's do this again as
soon as your schedules allow.
Please talk to Philippa as well.
I- I already
Sofia Valenca: told her.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah
Sofia Valenca: So she's-
Rupert Isaacson: People
need to know about her.
Luis Valenca: Philippa
Rupert Isaacson: is
Luis Valenca: very special,
Rupert Isaacson: She's a special person.
She's a well-kept secret.
Luis Valenca: Very, very, very
minutious that makes these.
It's-
Sofia Valenca: In detail.
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.
Luis Valenca: Yeah, details.
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.
Luis Valenca: Details.
Rupert Isaacson: All of us have
had this experience with her.
Luis Valenca: Yeah.
Sometimes it's, it's a lot of details.
Rupert Isaacson: What I found with her and
for the p- the listeners and the viewers
yes, we're gonna get this person on.
Everyone I know who has worked with
Philippa, the details usually come down
to between two and five very specific
things that she can identify and say,
"Hey, look, if you, if you change this to
this, and if you change this to this- Yeah
and you change this to this, then
it's really going to go well."
And they're often quite small things.
I would, I would love to see the
conversation actually between
my wife, Ileana, and Philippa,
because they're quite similar.
And she, yeah, she, she, she really
helps people with these details.
So anyway, yes, we'll,
we'll, we'll have her on.
And she also approaches it
with great love, you know.
So listen, I'm very, very grateful
that you guys took the time to do this.
Sofia Valenca: Thank you for having us.
Luis Valenca: Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: Bye.
And we, we will do it again soon.
Au revoir.
à la prochaine, huh?
Luis Valenca: Au revoir.
Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed
today's conversation as much as I did.
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