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In this podcast hosted by the trailblazing founder of RE/MAX, Dave Liniger, we discover the secrets of those who have overcome challenges, pushed past their own limits, and experienced the best life has to offer.
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Unknown
You.
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Unknown
You.
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Speaker 1
I'm your host, Dave Lineker, and today we have the privilege of sitting down with bestselling author John Akers. John is the New York Times bestselling author and an exceptional keynote speaker.
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Speaker 1
But John's journey to success wasn't without its challenges.
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Speaker 1
He's faced setbacks, rejections and moments of doubt. Yet through it all, he's maintained an unwavering commitment to his goals.
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Speaker 1
Today we'll explore the essence of grit and ambition with John, uncovering the strategies and mindset shifts necessary to thrive in the face of adversity.
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Speaker 1
Let's get started.
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Speaker 2
How do you personally define grit, and what role has it played in your own journey towards personal and professional success?
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Speaker 1
Yeah, I think of grit as trying again when the first time didn't work. You don't need grit. If the first time worked, it just worked and you didn't, you know. So for me, I think of grit as it feels like there's a phrase I like to use the day after perfect. What you do the day after perfect. So it's, you know, you went to the gym ten times in a row, you closed ten sales, whatever, and then it isn't perfect.
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Speaker 1
So what do you do next? And that to me is where grit comes in. Grit is that second chance, third chance, fourth chance, 100th chance where you're trying again. When it didn't go exactly as how you thought it'd go.
00:01:27:00 - 00:01:43:21
Speaker 2
That makes sense to me. Your work often emphasizes practicality while pursuing big goals. How can individuals balance being realistic with maintaining high levels of ambition? And what advice do you have for avoiding an either or mindset?
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Speaker 1
Yeah, so I think it is. And and mindset. I think it's a great question. I think about it in two ways. Dreaming is all optimism. Planning is all realism. And you have to hold both things in your hand. And that's where people get stuck. If you bring a lot of optimism into a planning session and go, it's all going to go, well, we won't have obstacles this is going to work.
00:02:05:02 - 00:02:24:03
Speaker 1
Everybody's going to buy it. Everybody will show up. You're in for a really hard time. And the flip side is true too. If you have a dreaming meeting and bring too much realism into it, you'll never cast huge vision. You'll never have, you know, huge horizons because people will be going, well, I don't think that'll work. We don't have the resources, we don't have the time.
00:02:24:07 - 00:02:48:23
Speaker 1
So I think you have to part of, you know, running a business, growing a business, being an entrepreneur, having ambition is holding those two very different things in your hands at the same time of optimism, wild optimism. But also really practical realism to say, okay, I can be specific. I can admit that we don't have the funds yet, or it's going to take longer than I want, or we're gonna we're going to run into some obstacles.
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Speaker 1
I need to plan for those. So I think you really have to have both of those. It's not it's not either or. And sometimes that means if you're part of a team, you need to make sure you have all those different voices at the table. Sometimes if you're an individual and you've got a small company, you have to be that leader that is able to kind of flip back and forth as the need requires.
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Speaker 2
Perseverance is a key element of grit. Can you share a specific instance from your life where perseverance played a pivotal role in achieving a significant goal?
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Speaker 1
Sure. Yeah. I, I didn't event once with John Maxwell. huge. Really fun honor. really admire the work he's done over the years. And we shared the stage. And then after they put us in a lobby of the event to do a book signing. So I was at one table, John Maxwell is at the other table, and there were probably 300 people in line at his table, and there were approximately zero in line at my table.
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Speaker 1
Zero and people would get out of his line and be like, hey, I like your blog. I'm not going to buy your book, but hey, good for you. And it was very humbling. And somebody walked up behind me, a stranger, and they patted me on the back and they said, ten years, buddy, ten years. And then they walked off into the crowd.
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Speaker 1
I never saw him again. And that was a perseverance moment for me to say, you know what? Like, I'm going to go do the next event. I'm going to write the next book. I'm not going to define this day by the lack of the book sales, and you're going to have those moments. So that was a moment for me to go, yeah, I hope, I'm ten years further down the path, ten years from now and I can look back on that moment and say, okay, you know, I can see what I've done since then.
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Speaker 1
Or there was another moment where I planned to meet up. I got a printed, a thousand stickers. I thought it was going to be successful. And I went to this event and I went to the room where the meetup was, and two people came in 90 minutes, and one was a friend who came and said, hey, you can do it.
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Speaker 1
And the other was a dad who walked in and said, I don't read your blog, but my daughter does, you know, can can we take a photo? And I remember in that moment I had a friend take a photo of me sitting in a sea of empty chairs with nobody there. And I wanted to remember that moment because I knew it would encourage me ten years from now, and it would encourage other people.
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Speaker 1
And I shared it online, and it became my most viral post ever. And then 13 years later, I spoke on stage in front of 10,000 people in that same building. And nobody knew that 100 yards away from that onstage moment, I had been alone with a homemade t shirt for my blog, failing miserably. And so for me, both of those moments, one I captured it and I shared it.
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Speaker 1
I think some of the pain dissipates when you share something and you get into a room with other leaders or other people that are trying to go, yeah, I had this moment. It didn't go well. and it also inspired me to go, now I'm going to keep going. I'm going to keep going. I'm going to keep going that way.
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Speaker 2
How do you approach setting ambitious goals? What advice do you have for individuals who may need to reframe their goals in the face of unexpected challenges?
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Speaker 1
Yeah, so I mean, I think one, it's helpful to have somebody you can kick around the goal with, I don't like I don't like to dream in isolation. I need community, I need other entrepreneurs that might be further down the path. For me. One of the things I say, Dave, is, you know, we have access to time machines.
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Speaker 1
They're called mentors, people who have been to the future you're trying to get to. And if you'll ask them questions and humbly listen, you'll get to understand how they got there. So I think sometimes having somebody where you can go, you know, hey, Dave, here's this thing I'm thinking about. Is it big enough? What am I not what am I not dreaming about?
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Speaker 1
You know, what should I do differently? So I love to dream in community when I'm trying to set an ambitious goal. I love to, whiteboard it without reality first. So I'll. I'll sketch out a goal. Like I sometimes will tell people, if you're having a hard time coming up with a goal on your laptop, take it to a whiteboard, take out some crayons, take out some markers, change up the format you're doing to try to, you know, trick some creativity out of the shadows.
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Speaker 1
And so sometimes I tell people, let's whiteboard it, let's post-it note it, let's do an exercise that is beyond just sitting down with an Excel spreadsheet and trying to come up with a dream. So sometimes it's the format. and then a key question, Dave, is I think if you say, let's say you want to, you want to build a business and you say, how do I build a big business?
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Speaker 1
I think that question awakes every fear, every doubt, every insecurity. And they go, but you can't build a big business. You don't have the resources, you don't have the skills, you don't have the maturity. So a better question is, what would a big business owner do? What actions would a big business owner take? Because then it becomes a brainstorming exercise and fear quiets down.
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Speaker 1
So suddenly you go, if I you know, if I, you know, was a big business owner, here's the things I would be doing. Oh, I'd have to get my brand. Okay. What does that look like? Oh, I'd have to have a sales team. Okay. What would that look like? And all of a sudden you can start brainstorming actions toward that big goal versus getting stuck in the fear of, well, I could never do it.
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Speaker 1
People in my town is in the right town. The economy's bad. I hate the government, whatever. So I like to come at it from a couple different angle angles to try to stir up some creativity.
00:08:11:00 - 00:08:30:20
Speaker 2
So failure is often part of the journey to success. And and John, I'm sure you've had as many failures as I did getting started. How do you recommend individuals cope with failure, learn from it and use it to fuel future endeavors?
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Speaker 1
Yeah, so the thing I tell people, because failure gets wrapped up in fear and I tell people I don't like when somebody says, you can be fearless because I think it often means you stopped growing. I think every time you try something new and bigger, you should have some some healthy fear with it. The first time I spoke to ten people, I had ten person sized fear because I'd never done that.
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Speaker 1
The first time I spoke to 100 people, I had a 100 person size fear and I worked on and I did it. Then I had a thousand person fear. So at every level there were new fears. So what I tell people is fear gets a voice, not a vote. It's going to have a voice and you can learn from it.
00:09:02:23 - 00:09:18:03
Speaker 1
Failure has a voice and you can learn from it, but it doesn't get a vote. It doesn't get to sit at the head of the table and say, you never get to try again. This failure was permanent. This failure means it's over. So I often will try to learn from it on the get go. I'll try to process it.
00:09:18:03 - 00:09:35:15
Speaker 1
I'll share it with a friend. I won't carry it solo. I don't think you're meant to carry your failures alone. So I'll share it with somebody else and go, hey, we you know, we launched this, we launched a sales product once, and I called up my sales guy, and I said, how many do we sell? This is, you know, 24 hours after a launch.
00:09:35:15 - 00:09:58:04
Speaker 1
And he said, a guy named Mike bought it. And I was like, no total number sales. And he was like a guy named Mike bought it. And I said, you never want your sales funnel to be able to have a name. You want it to be numbers like, not like one Mike we sold one Mike. And so I'll talk to other entrepreneurs about that story so that they can give me the power of me two and go, oh, I had something similar like that happen.
00:09:58:07 - 00:10:19:23
Speaker 1
So I process it. and then I go, okay, I'm going to do it again. What would I do differently? That's where the lesson comes through. So you go, you know what, I wouldn't like a lesson for me. I realized the best time to sell goal related products. Guess what is in December and January where everybody is in a goal related mood?
00:10:20:01 - 00:10:38:20
Speaker 1
I can do the best marketing I want. I can spend a ton of money in July. It's not going to sell. It's not going to sell because nobody people are going to the beach. They're in vacation mode. It's not the right time to sell that product. It would be foolish for me to try to sell it. In July sale and then not listen to that month.
00:10:38:20 - 00:10:58:12
Speaker 1
The month just taught me a lesson and I have the choice as a leader to go, okay, I'll learn from that lesson or I can bang my head again, again and again and again against the wall of July. So that's how I process. Process failure is I talk with people about it, I'll write it out. I'll see what lesson for next time.
00:10:58:14 - 00:11:19:08
Speaker 1
and then I'll again, like I'll always say it's not permanent. This failure wasn't permanent. And then then if I need to, I'll read, you know, books about people who are, you know, talked about their failures and realize, okay, wow. You know, Dave shared a failure. He went through, okay, I'm not the only one. So sometimes if it's just me by myself, that can be really encouraging.
00:11:19:10 - 00:11:33:18
Speaker 2
Okay. John, as a speaker and author, how do you aim to inspire and develop grit in others? And what strategies have you found most effective in helping people tap into their determination?
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Speaker 1
I think a big part of it is sharing the process. I think people have a hard time with grit because online we share the before and after and nobody talks about the middle and life is mostly middle. So we go, okay, here's how much I used to weigh and here's how skinny I am. And we don't show the nine month process.
00:11:51:10 - 00:12:15:15
Speaker 1
Or we say, here I am. And I didn't, you know, I had no money and now I have a ton of money. And so I like to share the during I'm a big during guy. I'm a big middle guy. So I'll share, you know, the process of, hey, like I did this just the other day, I gave my wife 16 chapters I'd written for a new book, and she like two, two like, that's less than an F, like two of six.
00:12:15:17 - 00:12:34:14
Speaker 1
The rest, she was like, they're boring, they're safe. I don't know who wrote this. This isn't your voice. Like, this is not good. And fortunately, we're 25 plus years in our marriage. Now, that's not a grumpy conversation. When we first got married year one, I would have been like, what are you talking about? This is great writing. I'm the best writer ever.
00:12:34:14 - 00:12:51:00
Speaker 1
I might have walked away with a bruised ego and had an argument the rest of the week, but now I know. No, she's right. She knows me better than anybody. Okay, so how do I, you know, what do I do with this? And then I share that online so that every other author, every other entrepreneur goes, oh, that's part of the process.
00:12:51:00 - 00:13:05:19
Speaker 1
He's not just writing final drafts first time. So I think a lot of what I do to help people develop grit is share my process of developing grit, so that they see, okay, it's not overnight. It does take time. It does take effort.
00:13:05:21 - 00:13:22:01
Speaker 2
That's certainly true. many individuals go through career, transitions. What advice do you have for those navigating those changes, and how can they sustain their ambition during times of uncertainty?
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Speaker 1
Yeah, I wrote a book called Do-Over about career transitions, so it's certainly something I think a lot about. I care a lot about, I always tell people, you've got to give yourself credit for the things you've already built in your career. What I often see that makes career transition hard as people go, I've lost my job, I was laid off, and I, I don't know what to do next.
00:13:43:06 - 00:14:03:01
Speaker 1
And I always say, well, let's look at your relationships. Let's make a list. What if you just said, okay, I've lost my job and I feel overwhelmed? So today I'm going to make a list of as many people as I can think who I could reach out to so I could reach out to with a text or an email that says, hey, this is you know, I'm in a job transition right now.
00:14:03:01 - 00:14:25:04
Speaker 1
If you have any open positions, I'd love to know. And you make a list of those people that gives you a little bit of forward momentum. People don't get discouraged when they can see progress. Now that takes some humility. You have to. You can't be helped unless you ask for help. That's one of the rules of help. So you have to have the humility to say to those 50 friends, those 100 friends, hey, I'm in a career transition.
00:14:25:04 - 00:14:44:09
Speaker 1
I'd love some help, but let's figure out your relationships or if you're not ready that for that yet, let's figure out your skills. What if we did a skill exercise and we just brainstormed the list of skills that you've developed and got really specific and really granular, let's think of as many skills as we can so that when fear comes in and goes, you don't have any skills, you don't.
00:14:44:09 - 00:15:00:13
Speaker 1
You're never going to find another job again. And fear gets mouth. You go, actually, I have 100 right here and here's. And then you take that list and you go to LinkedIn and go, let me match some of these skills to open positions. The faster I can get you to action, the easier it is for you to handle career transition.
00:15:00:15 - 00:15:15:09
Speaker 2
Okay. Ambition can evolve throughout various life stages. How have you observed individuals successfully adapting and maintaining ambition in different phases of their life?
00:15:15:11 - 00:15:42:12
Speaker 1
it's a great question. yeah. I think that when you're in your 20s, in your 30s, you're on the grind like you don't, you know, like there's, there's a specific type of hunger to your 20s, your 30s or early 40s, and then you start to build something and you have to find a different ambition, because if your ambition was to build the initial thing and then the things built, you'll either get bored, you'll get burned out, you'll give up on it, you won't go to the next level.
00:15:42:17 - 00:16:12:22
Speaker 1
So I think as leaders, you're always adapting your ambition. So you're always going like when you're an individual, you know, building your own small company, you might not have the ambition to employ 20 people. But as you grow, all of a sudden you go, wow, I really get fired up knowing that I've created 20 jobs for 20 amazing people in Denver, and I'm so excited that I could, you know, and you move into a teacher role and go, wow, I was so good at my thing that now people are asking me, how do you do the thing?
00:16:13:00 - 00:16:34:21
Speaker 1
Like you've had that happen, you build something and then people start to come around and go, Dave, I want to do what you did. How did you do that? And you go, oh, wait a second, I have some things to teach. So I think you're always trading in your ambition at each new level or you get stuck. That's the problem with like if money is your only ambition, you'll quit because you'll get the money.
00:16:35:02 - 00:16:50:14
Speaker 1
Like, if you say, I want to make $10 million, awesome. What happens at $10,000,001 like, you better change the goal or you'll just go, well, I did the thing. Like, I mean, I guess I got the money, so I don't know what I want to do next. And I'm always helping people go, okay, well, what's the next thing?
00:16:50:14 - 00:17:04:00
Speaker 1
What's the is it serving people? Is it selling the company? Is it, you know, becoming a teacher? You've always wanted to be a professor and now you're shifting into mentor mode and teacher mode. I think you're always trading in your ambition or you get stuck.
00:17:04:02 - 00:17:17:06
Speaker 2
Okay? Personal growth is often tied to ambition. How do you approach continuous personal development and what role does it play in sustaining long term grit?
00:17:17:08 - 00:17:36:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, I think you're always you're always tweaking your dials when it comes to personal development and learning, and saying, okay, where can I get better? Where's an issue or an idea that I could get stronger on? So like for me, I realized recently I was isolating. I was kind of getting stuck in my office. I was in writer mode.
00:17:36:01 - 00:17:52:15
Speaker 1
I was kind of in the writer's cave and I need to do better at connecting with people. So what did I do with that? I started to reach out to people. So, for instance, this weekend I'm going to Orlando. I go to Orlando tomorrow, I speak in Orlando Saturday, and then I speak in Tampa on Monday. So what did I do?
00:17:52:20 - 00:18:06:19
Speaker 1
I reached out to a connection in Orlando. I said, I'm coming to town, can we have dinner? So I get to connect with him. I reached out to a connection that's going to be at the event I'm speaking. I said, hey, can we go for a jog on Sunday morning? I reached out to another connection, who's in real estate, and said, hey, I'm in Tampa.
00:18:06:22 - 00:18:27:23
Speaker 1
I know you live in Tampa. Can we connect? So for me, personal development, it does look like books. It does look like podcasts. It does look like courses and events, but it also looks like people. So I'm always kind of keeping an eye on a couple dials in my life, like, okay, what's my where's my health dial? Where's my family dial, where's my my reading dial, where's my finance dial, where's my people dial?
00:18:28:02 - 00:18:37:19
Speaker 1
And when one gets really low and I start to notice it, I dial it back up and I go, I need to pour into that one because it's not at the level I want. That's how I think about personal development.
00:18:37:21 - 00:18:51:05
Speaker 2
Okay. final question for emerging leaders seeking to cultivate grit and ambition, what advice do you have based on your own experiences and the lessons you've learned along the way?
00:18:51:07 - 00:19:07:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, put some time toward it. I would say grit is like any other skill. You can practice it. I don't think we use that word enough. The idea of practicing grit. And so I think you need to be like deliberate about it to say, okay, how can I practice grit? I've got something this week that's going to be challenging.
00:19:08:02 - 00:19:24:13
Speaker 1
What does it look like for me to practice grit? How can I get better at grit? What's a grit metric like? Maybe you come up with your own grit metrics and you say, okay, the last time I failed at this thing, I did a pity party for three days. That was too long. So now I'm going to do it.
00:19:24:13 - 00:19:43:14
Speaker 1
Like I'm going to give myself an hourlong pity party. I'm going to set a timer, and for 60 minutes I get to be like, oh, this is the worst. Life is so unfair. I can't believe this happened. Man, that client was worth 60 minutes is over. The party's over. Like it's back to it. So, like, you just saved three days of effort because you said, no, I'm not.
00:19:43:14 - 00:19:57:03
Speaker 1
I'm going to get better at grit. I'm going to practice grit. I think when words like grit aren't defined and we don't have ways to practice them, that's when they're difficult. So for me, I love to get creative and go, how can I practice grit this week? What does that look like specifically?
00:19:57:05 - 00:20:24:01
Speaker 2
So about 12 years ago, I was in a coma for three months and I woke a quadriplegic and, went through a series of tests and the doctors did all these nerve tests, and they came back to me and they said, well, the tests are completed and you're never going to walk again. and there's nothing we can do to help you.
00:20:24:03 - 00:20:54:09
Speaker 2
And, I went back to my, hospital room, and I was very distraught. my daughter was there, and she was crying, and I said, hey, why don't you and your husband go get some dinner and leave me alone for a while? And I sat there and I had this pity party for about 15 minutes, and then the courage came back and I thought, okay, maybe it'll be a quad.
00:20:54:09 - 00:21:16:07
Speaker 2
Maybe it'll be a paraplegic. I'm still man. I've watched the the guys in the wheelchairs playing basketball, knocking each other off their their court and somebody's able body coming out and putting them upright again. I watched them play hockey, and I said, If I'm going to be a paraplegic, I'll be the best damn paraplegic in the world.
00:21:16:08 - 00:21:38:22
Speaker 2
love that. And as it was, the the thing that got me out of it was I thought, you know, you want to give up and you've given 40 some years your life spoke to 6 million people. 30 countries live and told them they can do anything. They set their mind and go, and and here you are quitting because it hurts.
00:21:39:00 - 00:21:45:05
Speaker 2
I said, if there's anything, I'm not a hypocrite. I'm going to fucking prove I can do this.
00:21:45:07 - 00:21:46:15
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, it's great.
00:21:46:19 - 00:22:05:16
Speaker 2
I told my doctors, get this straight, I don't mean be profane on them. These the story, but this is the actual language. I'm a Vietnam vet. I have a little salty tongue once in a while, and I said, I'm going to walk out of this hospital and you can kiss my ass.
00:22:05:18 - 00:22:07:19
Speaker 1
Oh, that's so good.
00:22:07:21 - 00:22:30:05
Speaker 2
They were very upset. Said it was not appropriate for the hospital. They were trying to save me and help me and teach me to learn with my disability. And I said, teach me to learn how to walk again. I don't want to learn with my disability. And as it would happen, I set my dates to leave the hospital three different times and did not achieve it.
00:22:30:05 - 00:22:59:04
Speaker 2
I was still quad the final time I went home. Anyway, I went back for eight hours of therapy six days a week for over a year. It took months, but I learned how to walk first with braces and then pushing a grocery cart that had barbells in it, and then finally with double crutches, and then eventually with a single cane and no braces.
00:22:59:06 - 00:23:09:12
Speaker 2
And it was just basically, it was total 100% grit and determination of, I just will not quit.
00:23:09:14 - 00:23:15:14
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Did you go back to the hospital and walk for him at the end? Is that how the.
00:23:15:16 - 00:23:29:23
Speaker 2
We have a steakhouse called Del Frisco's? Yeah. I invited the entire, staff of my therapists, nurses, doctors, none of them to see me walk yet. And,
00:23:30:02 - 00:23:31:17
Speaker 1
Oh, man.
00:23:31:19 - 00:24:01:21
Speaker 2
So that evening, there was 200 of us. I apologize to my doctors and said, I know I irritated you when I said that I would walk out of the hospital and you could kiss my ass, and obviously I did not succeed. But I have never quit. And thanks to everybody that saved my life, I can walk tonight. I got up, walked across the room with a cane and two spotters in case I fell that I gosh and my doctors cried.
00:24:01:23 - 00:24:07:14
Speaker 1
It's like a movie. This is like a movie. Gosh, that feels like ten books.
00:24:07:16 - 00:24:09:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was fun.
00:24:09:19 - 00:24:19:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, it was fun. I love that summary. It was fun. It was fun. So how long did it take you to walk from? From start to finish? What was it, would you say, a year?
00:24:20:01 - 00:24:49:11
Speaker 2
You know, it was almost a year, before I could walk, 8 to 10 steps. Gotcha. And at that point, I was on, electric wheelchair at a remix convention, 10,000 people. And they were in shock and all that. You're the founder was in a wheelchair, and, I went through the whole procedure. I gave a motivational speech.
00:24:49:12 - 00:25:24:06
Speaker 2
So you can go read, set your goals, get a support group that will help you. And I said, I kept dreaming that if I could just walk 2 or 3 steps, what a difference that would be from being permanently in a wheelchair to be able to just step out of a wheelchair, to get in the front seat of a car, versus being in an Anglo cab where you have an electric wheelchair driving up a ramp, and that if you could just step two steps, you could reach up on a shelf and get something like a book or a cookie jar.
00:25:24:08 - 00:25:50:12
Speaker 2
And so at the end of the speech, I told him that, I had written a New York Times bestseller, My Next Step. And I said, today I can make ten steps. And I got my applause, got on my wheelchair, and walked the ten steps off the stage. Gosh, on Memorial Day, I sent out on my social media.
00:25:50:14 - 00:25:53:16
Speaker 2
I had walked 10,000 steps that day.
00:25:53:18 - 00:26:08:06
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, that must have been a wild moment for that audience. 10,000 people. Gosh that is. That's amazing. I can't wait to have you on my podcast. I feel like we're, we're going to have a great conversation about this. Good grief.
00:26:08:07 - 00:26:11:16
Speaker 2
You know, we had pleasure. So thank you so much. Great idea.
00:26:11:16 - 00:26:25:08
Speaker 1
Looking forward to it. Yeah, I appreciate that. I can't I can't wait to, talk more about your book. I've got a copyright here, so. Yeah, we'll we'll save my questions for that one. But, Dave, it was an honor to be on your podcast and an honor to get to hear a little of your story.
00:26:25:09 - 00:26:27:10
Speaker 2
Thank you. John, talk to you in a couple weeks.