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Live Lead Last is a weekly podcast hosted by leadership coach, nonprofit director, and entrepreneur James Duvall. Designed for growth-minded leaders, this show helps you live by design, lead with purpose, and leave a legacy that lasts.
Through honest conversations, practical tools, and real-life stories, James equips leaders to develop strong roots, sustainable influence, and lasting impact — both personally and professionally. Whether you're leading a team, a business, a ministry, or a family, this podcast will help you become the kind of leader others want to follow.
Rob: Resiliency is something that you get by falling down. Hmm. You have to fail to become resilient.
James: Hey friends. I'm James Duvall and you're listening to the Live Lead last podcast where we explore what it takes to live with vision, lead with integrity, and leave an impact that outlasts us.
If your leadership feels stretched thin and pulled in too many directions, it's time to pause and reset.
That's exactly why I created the Five Day Leadership Reset. In just five focus days, you'll realign your priorities, sharpen your habits, and reignite your clarity and purpose. And you can start today at liveleadlast.com/reset. Today's episode is special for me. My guest isn't just a brilliant leader.
He's a good friend and one of the most trusted advisors in my own [00:01:00] entrepreneurial journey. Robert Wells has a gift for blending creativity, technology, and strategy in a way that inspires everyone around him. He's the founder of Aurel Music Business os a platform empowering musicians and music labels. He also leads Hope Lane Records and invests his time in mentoring founders, entrepreneurs, and artists on how to innovate with excellence and purpose.
Robert's story is one of resilience, vision, and relentless commitment to building things that truly matters, and I'm excited for you to hear it. So let's jump in.
Well Rob, it's so great to have you on the Lively Less Podcast. Thank you so much for taking time to be here today. Of course. Thank you for having me. And it's cool to actually be doing this in person 'cause most of my conversations are over Zoom, but we're actually neighbors and so, uh, it's great that to have you here and our relationship has meant so much to me because, you know, especially being new as an entrepreneur in this self, funding space.
You've been an advisor to me and have given me a lot of wisdom, and so when we brought back the Live Lead Last [00:02:00] podcast, I knew I wanted you heavy on the show because of how much you've inspired me and given me just some real insights on entrepreneurship and how to go about it. So I'm, I'm real excited about you just sharing a bit about your story too.
So thanks for being here again.
Rob: Well, I, I appreciate being here and yes, it was a very far commute. Uh, I turned the corner and I'm like, wait, I'm here already.
James: Yeah. So it's, it's really great. One of the things about you, Rob, is, is you are, entrepreneur, you've been in the tech space, you've been a CTO for companies.
You understand technology. But you've kind of taken on really ambitious endeavor of going to the intersection of art and technology and, and your new creation with Aurelia.
And I wanna get into the development of that and the mission behind that. But before we do that, why don't you just give us a little background on you and your journey to entrepreneurship.
Rob: So I grew up outside in the DC area. My parents were both in [00:03:00] the federal government, so boring, super boring jobs.
All I hear about is. Federal bureaucracy every time I come home for dinner every day. I was into sports, heavily into sports back then, and I'll be honest with you, there was a moment in my life that changed everything. I was 16 years old in high school and like I said, all into sports, and woke up one morning and I was completely paralyzed.
Wow. I don't think I've heard this story. I don't tell very many people this. Oh my goodness. But I think it's worthwhile to talk about today because it was part of the very beginning of this journey that I'm on right now, that God's been like laying in front of us. And so one of the interesting parts about that were they, they finally did find out what it was after a year and a half of tests and almost not even being able to school anymore.
It's this rare disease called an spondylitis. And it does fuse your body part, your tendons together. And it was extremely painful experience. And I say, I'm mentioning this today because [00:04:00] the only thing I could do was move my fingers. And so at the bottom of our stairs in our, in our house in Maryland, there was a piano, an upright piano from my grandma, and no one played it.
Wow. I would find my way, slide down the staircase and slide into the seat and start playing music. And it just started to flow out of me. It was like I heard something somewhere and it came to me and I started to play it by ear. Wow. And I. I think I never would've gotten into music if I, if this event never happened to me.
So that was probably the first moment in time when I realized, and I didn't, until later in life, I didn't really look back and see that the, the dots that God was connecting from that moment in time. But that was the first time that I realized that. I have a purpose that there's a reason for me to be here and music was a part of that.
James: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and obviously we've had conversations. It's obvious that everything you put your hands to [00:05:00] flows out of deep purpose and not just the make money or build technology, but really to have impact. And so that gives a lot of context to that. A lot of entrepreneurs, like you said, they start business or to solve a problem.
I know when I launched. My technology company, I was really trying to solve a problem for myself and for others who were trying to be in that space, and so. Music, the tech are all part of your DNA. It goes back to that story, but it wasn't just about business, it was about building something at last.
So what led you to actually step into the entrepreneur space? Like you could have done music and as a teacher or an ministry or whatever, but what was it about entrepreneurship that had you step into that space? So another
Rob: interesting, weird story would be, so because of that music moment, I ended up.
Learning music for real and went on to college and full scholarship, the music and the whole deal. But I was, I was insatiable.
James: Mm.
Rob: I couldn't stop learning and I, there was, I couldn't get enough. And [00:06:00] so, like you're reading Yeah. And how in, in that initiative that you started? Uh, yeah. Many years ago, I, I was on a similar path, but it was different.
It was more like I wanted to learn about entrepreneurship. I wanted to learn how I could better myself, how I could be a better musician. And I just went after just fast as I could. So full scholarship to school. When I left school, I was like, I don't wanna teach. I want more. And I didn't know what that was.
So I was just looking for opportunity that would get me to learn more and to experience life. So strangely enough, I moved from Maryland to San Francisco and pursued technology. And the reason is I had a friend over a weekend that was telling me about his new job in the dotcom industry. And this was like our nine nineties, right?
1990s. And I was like, he was like, so what are you doing? And I was like, well, I'm not really working right now. Tell me about your job. And he said, well, it's really cool. I built these websites, these things called websites. It's back in the day. Yeah. I, and uh, you know, it's this new thing people can access it through their [00:07:00] computers.
And I'm like, this is really cool. Show me. And, and it show me how you built it. And I looked at the code and I'm like, that looks like music. It was very rhythmic. It was very logical. And so. I was really intrigued and so I said, can you teach me how to do that? I said, of course we have the weekend. Of course I have the weekend.
Let's go. So over the weekend I learned how to code. Wow. And it was so easy because it was so much like music. It was like reading notes. It was like everything was rhythmic, everything was logical. And that started this path on the technology. And so immediately I heard about this, this gold rush in San Francisco.
So moved across the country and just plotted myself right into a startup out there. As a coder, shared a desk with like six other people slept there all night long. It was literally like the.com stories you hear. Wow. It was very interesting. But it was incredible time in my life. Something for five years of living there and going from startup to startup.
Back then you would be at a startup. You'd get paper money, right? Paper. Oh, you get ownership. And then they'd [00:08:00] sell it a year later and then you'd move on to the next one. And it was, it was an unbelievable rollercoaster ride, but. Skill was set wise, I was learning more coding and learning more about entrepreneurship along the way and just absolutely fell in love with entrepreneurship.
James: Yeah, that's amazing. So when was it that you began to connect mission or your purpose to entrepreneurship? 'cause you're very clear on like your mission for everything that you, you put your hands to. So when, when was that for you that it was like. This isn't just about what I do, it's about who I am.
Rob: Well, I tell you, this is a, a very personal part of my story, but, uh, in my twenties out there in California, I had success, right?
And my parents were like, I've never even seen anybody your, your age make that much money. Uh, you know, everyone was clapping and celebrating that, but I wasn't happy. I, I just wasn't happy. I didn't feel like this was it. This was, this was what my life was gonna amount to. And I had a [00:09:00] really good friend that I called and, and was a confidant with and asked him, you know, Hey, have you ever felt like there's more, like you, you've got everything you want, but there's something that you need that you don't know about yet.
And, and I grew up Catholic and all of that, which is great, but at that moment I realized that there's something more that I needed besides working and, and striving. Mm-hmm. And money, and well search for Jesus. Really? Mm-hmm. I, I became a Christian. Fully, and it was crazy because became a Christian, nine 11 happened and it was like my whole world just totally changed.
Wow. Yeah. It went my, I mean like I saw things from a different perspective. I saw like people, the humanity of the world, and I saw the need out there and I said, what am I doing out here? Why am I so far from my family? What am I doing? I'm striving after money. I, I just wanted God to like remold me to take all of that, those past experiences [00:10:00] and remold me to something else.
So I literally picked up, moved back to the east coast, didn't even know what I was gonna do. I ended up starting a company with my father and it wasn't even something that I wanted to do, but I was the technology guy there. And so we started this consulting company became, it was a couple years of bootstrapping and then it became pretty successful and I realized.
This is, this is what I wanna do. Hmm. I want to create things from scratch with the foundational elements of Jesus in the center, and I want to use technology and, and creativity in the midst of it. And so that started a spur of different companies from that point forward. It was like, I couldn't, I, I just wanted to invest in young entrepreneurs.
So whatever money I was making for my companies, I would find young entrepreneurs and they would come to me for advice and I'd say, well, what are you trying to do? And they'd say this and that. I'm like, I said, well, I'll give you some money to get started. Mm-hmm. And that began this whole crazy. Journey of investing in young entrepreneurs, not only with just coaching and mentoring, but also investing, yeah.
In them as well. [00:11:00]
James: Yeah. That's incredible. And you've obviously started a lot of companies, and we've known each other for, I don't know, 15 years or something like that, but we kinda reconnected our friendship around startups because I was in the middle of startup and I knew that you had started companies and you're a little bit farther ahead on your newest company.
And so, I started. Hey, can we do coffee? And you were so, so generous. And like, I'm not a young guy, but as a older guy, just to, share wisdom and insight and, you know, I've learned just a lot. Like even when we went, went and did our first round of funding, you know, I, it's like one of my advisors is Robert Wells, and it just meant so much to me.
But, uh, I'm real excited about this product you've been working on. You were working on several projects and we'll talk about some of those, but Aurelia is a unique. Product that you're bringing to market. And my background in music as well. I'm super jazzed about it because I think it really hits a niche.
That's what I needed. So tell us a little bit about Aurelia, what it is and the genesis of the [00:12:00] start of that company.
Rob: I. Aurelia is actually was named with my two daughters names mixed together. Aria, Uhhuh, and Amelia. Okay. So Aurelia and I wanted in knowing, having other, having other startups.
This is silly, but I knew that I wanted a name that was either a number in the beginning or an A. Okay. Because. Enlists. It shows up first. Oh, there you go. Okay. And people don't think about those little tiny things like that, but it's true. That's an interesting, that's an interesting hack
James: right there, that you just Yeah, it's a small little growth hack.
Exactly. Yeah.
Rob: How it started. So in 2018, my kids, we'll get back to this story later, but just a small little piece of this, my kids were singing, you know, houses filled with instruments. I didn't, I didn't wanna push music on them. I just wanted God to do whatever he was gonna do in their lives. Mm-hmm. And show them the path to take.
But they ended up loving music and so they started singing together and doing harmonies and things like that on YouTube. So 20 18, 20 21 comes, I had been, [00:13:00] I kind of left entrepreneurship for a while and was just tried to. Help our, our family. Mm-hmm. So I was taking bigger jobs. I was taking CEO jobs, uh, tech companies and consulting companies in Boston and New York and things.
And so I was on the road a lot.
And all for about five years. I was literally traveling from Monday to Thursday night, Friday. Wow. I wouldn't be home at all. So weekends I was worn out. Like I barely could spend time with my kids 'cause I was so tired trying to recuperate. And then it was 2021 after the, after COVID when.
I literally was in a place where I just said, you know, what am I doing? I'm kind of getting back to those days back when I was driving after money. Yeah. Even though now my heart was centered on Jesus, I was still like making that a priority over my family and I left the company, my last company as a CEO, and I was like, you know what?
I just need to figure out what I'm gonna do next. And did a 21 day prayer fast. Okay. And on day 14. That didn't even take 21 days. [00:14:00] Day 14, I woke up at four in the morning with this incredible vision in my mind. Like, I gave me this dream and it was so vivid. I had, I had like an entire picture in my head.
So I, I went out and we're home. My kids are homeschooled, so we went out to the kitchen table and there's plenty of pencils and paper out there. Yeah. And so I'm out there at four in the morning and I'm sketching this thing in my head. I'm trying to get into as much detail as I possibly can. And at the, at the very.
Bottom of it and was like, I, I wrote down the date, November 21st, 2021, and the craziest thing ever, and I might be getting too deep into a story here, but I thought to myself, what in the world? Why, why does November 21 sound so familiar to me? Right? So. I picked up my phone, I thought, and I'm, I take, I, I love to take notes.
Yeah. I love to journal all the time and in here about my thoughts and like my, how, you know, my talking to God back and forth. So I went into my notes and my, and my phone, and I went all the way back. And the very first note I ever put in here was [00:15:00] November 21st, 2008. Come on, 13 years earlier. And that message was.
An extraordinary experience. We had this voice that appeared to both my wife and I, my daughter Ari, was only one years old through this crazy experience with this baby monitor.
James: Hmm.
Rob: The microphone.
And it was a preacher just talking about Solomon and David.
And genealogy and creating and glorifying God and creating something really big and and glorifying God in the process, right? Mm-hmm. And using your gifts and abilities to glorify God. And I about lost it at that time. This was 2008, remember? And from that point forward, Kara, my wife and I were like, what are we gonna do with this?
You know? Well, God said go build something great. So with our gifts and abilities. Let's go build something. So we started a company called Compassion Music.
And the goal was to take her music background and our ability to organize things [00:16:00] and try to use music to raise money for, for nonprofits and things like that.
Mm-hmm. And so we started to put on a bunch of festivals and things and, and really tried to raise money with, and we did merch. We had all kinds of stuff that we were doing well, and, and I realized that. We had started to have kids, you know, we had Aria then we had four more kids and expenses and, and so it, it wasn't enough money to survive.
So I, that's why I ended up going back into being CEO and these other jobs. Okay? And here we go. 13 years later, God is sitting with me at the kitchen table and reminds me, do you remember I already gave you Wow. A mission. Interesting. Go do that. That's so. Lost it at that point, right? I was like, oh my gosh, what have I been doing?
I can't believe I walked away from my mission. And it became, but one thing was very interesting and different was before he was like, just go do this thing. And he didn't gimme us any clarity, but now he's like, here is the structure of what I want you to do. Gave us complete clarity. And so the very first thing we did [00:17:00] was we started Hope Lane Media,
Created a company and we were like, okay, we need to do a couple things.
One is we need to create music. Two, we, I know there's a software component here, but I don't know what that is yet. And so we just started to create music. And so we started with a record label, hopeful playing records, started pumping out music. And along the way I realized, wait, when I was in the music industry back, back in the day, it was CDs, you know?
Yeah. There weren't, there wasn't social media. There wasn't, um, streaming yet. Yep. You know, I mean, you could buy and see if you could buy Spotify, weren, even the thing on Apple Music or iTunes actually. Yeah. But. And so I had to relearn the music industry, but I had a, like a technology lens on it this time.
And so as I'm, as I'm logging into, so hopefully it has all this music out and I'm logging into Spotify for Artists Amp, PO, Pandora for artists, mu Apple music for artists, TikTok, you know, all the different and publishing platforms, this show kids, CD, baby, all that stuff. And I'm like, this is crazy. Why? Why isn't there a tool that brings all this together for somebody?
And I started looking around for that [00:18:00] tool because we needed it actually. We were like, this is crazy. I can't do this every day. This is too much work. Yeah. So I ended up creating my, designing a, a prototype of a tool that brought it all together into one place. And so, and then this, this name came to my mind, I was thinking about like, what can I call this thing?
I wanna make it bigger. Than what it is right now. I want, I have this big vision for this, and so came up with the term music business os So it's like your music business operating system. Yeah. That was the goal was you can come to this one place and operate your entire music business in one place. Now, obviously that's a big goal, right?
And you start small. So the first thing I started with was just. Tying into all of those different, and there was like 21 different apps and services out there, social publishing revenue, you know, and all of the different artists profile sites for, for the streaming platforms and build these beautiful dashboards that showed an artist.
How am I doing across [00:19:00] all the platforms in one place, right? Instead of just like, how am I doing a Spotify for artists? How am I doing across all the platforms? What's, what are the demographics of all the people listening, not just on Spotify, but on YouTube as well, and on, you know, and what does my social look like?
Mm-hmm. And it was so funny because I, you know, in the music business, we're talking to other musicians and they'd ask every once in a while. So what do you guys do for real? Manage your, your royalties. And I said, oh, we built this tool. Oh, what is it? I said called Aurel, but it's just a prototype. Well, can I see it?
Sure. You know, I show it to them. Can I have that? Where do I get that? Yeah. I like, well, it's not for sale, it's, we're just using it. Right. You know, and that's the whole purpose of it. It was up to make our lives easier. And that happened more and more times. And even when I go into Nashville, I was talking to people that were curb records and, and word.
I'd show them and they're like, are you kidding me? I have seven people that I've hired do these things. Wow. And I paid for technology, software engineers, and you're giving that away for [00:20:00] $5 and 99 cents a month. And it, it was, it had this epiphany, like, I think that's, yeah. We should probably turn this into a, a real product.
Yeah. To market's. That's awesome. That was the
James: genesis of, uh, of how that's incredible. Just taking that first step. I just reaading recently and the author was talking about, you know, commitment leads to courage, right? And so you have to take that first step of commitment, and that's usually the scariest, right?
Even like yourself who had a very clear vision that was given to you of what it could look like. When you take that step and go, okay, I'm gonna put money behind this. I'm gonna put my time behind this, and so forth. You really don't know how it's gonna play out. But then you start getting that social proof and you're like, oh, people love this.
And it definitely encouraging in that space.
Rob: Yeah. I mean, just to your point, the fear that you experience when you first do something like this. Mm-hmm. Like for us, four kids, you know, I had a steady income and I left that and we had some savings and [00:21:00] things, retirement accounts, but you know, we, we thought, you know what?
This is greater than anything we've ever done before.
We have a pure mission here. And then, God told us like, go do this thing and, and this time you better do it. I already told you to do it right this time. Stay on track. And I thought, okay, you know what? This is not my money anyways.
Right. And so we sold all of our retirement accounts. Wow. We, we, we got rid of our, all of our savings. Even so you were all in, even sold one of our favorite cars. Wow. So that I, I had the cherish and loved so much that I wanted for anyways. But the point being it was all very scary. Yeah. And some days we, when we had spent all the money on the product and building software and investing in all these things, you know, there were times when I'm like, I don't know what we're gonna do this month on.
And God would always provide me a, just like the perfect timing. Exactly. And so we, this was a journey not only in. Obedience, but a journey in trust and, and hope. Yeah. And believing for the promises that you cannot [00:22:00] see. Yeah. You know, that was hard as a father with four children in Palm Beach County.
James: I think one of the things I'm learning about this space is that I, I don't know if there's ever the right time to start. Like, with young kids, you jumped in and did it. my journey was, at 53 years old, very stable lifestyle to take that jump.
So I think everybody, probably has that, their own barrier to cross their own, self-preservation. They get all, they kind of go, Hey, I could lose everything here. Or I, it could be great. And, and knowing that The majority of businesses don't take off, right?
So there is risk there, right? I wanna go back to just the music side of this because, obviously for, people who are creating content, and I don't know if you've thought about this, but I'm guessing this could be actually advanced eventually to any kind of content creators, right?
They're trying to find their, revenues from YouTube or from Instagram or, influencers, affiliates, that's maybe in your product line down the road, but the [00:23:00] technology's there now that you could probably do that. Right. But it, it goes back to, one of things I've always admired about you is just the focus on family and just the passion for your wife and your kids and just what, and your daughter's names being the name.
And, and really that was really kind of the origin story was you, your kids, you wanted to produce something for your kids. So talk to us a little bit about Hope Lane and how that all started and what you're doing with that.
Rob: So I, I touched on that story a bit earlier, how it really started was we were on a trip to North Carolina, Asheville, we just love getting away from Florida sometimes getting in the mountains, taking hikes back. It just seeing God's work all around us is so beautiful and just amazing. And so we were in the woods at the Asheville Botanical Garden , I believe it's called.
There was a stage like this, this amazing stage made out of rock with these beautiful fir trees that were all around it to look like curtains. And it was just a beautiful experience. And because of the holiness and the way that they had tiered seating there, our kids were like, we're gonna probably show for you guys.
And we were the only [00:24:00] people there at this moment. Right. There was only six of us at the time. Right. So Kara and I sit, we had our phones out. Kind of watching what's going on. And Aria comes out first and she introduces everybody. Like we didn't know her, right? So it was like this, hi, my name is Aria. Then they come out one at a time.
Everybody, they're so tiny. This is like ages six to 12 at the time. And all of a sudden they start singing in Four Part Harmony, a Lauren Dle song, the Dry Bones song. Right. And both Karen and I look at each other
James: like,
Rob: yeah, did, did you teach? I said, no, I'd have nothing to do with that, you know, to me neither.
Wow. They're really good. So. All of a sudden they sing two more songs and we hear all those clapping behind us and started drawing a crowd of people from all over the place thinking that there was a concert thing. And after then they clapping. They came up to us like, what's the name of the band? We're like, there's no band here just in kids showing us some stuff.
Right. And well, you guys should really think about being a band anyway, so we're driving home a 13 hour drive from Asheville. The kids are like, can we have a YouTube channel? Can we have a [00:25:00] YouTube channel? I don't care. I'm like, no, you're too young to have a YouTube channel. Come on. Like, we'd have to too much to monitor.
It's a little crazy world right now. And finally, by the trip, after 13 hours of being asked, I said, okay, tell you what, I'll create YouTube channel. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the one to manage it, and I'll build you a website. And we're only put one video on there. Okay? That's it. And I, and I'm gonna have to help you with this video.
Great. Okay. So excited. So we get home and within about three days. Where's our YouTube channel? How kids are you out there? Forget against. I said, okay, okay, I'll do it this weekend. So set up YouTube channel, make 'em, build 'em a quick little website and okay, let's put a video up. I said, well, got, what do you guys wanna do?
And they're like, oh, there's this really cool song from Holland called Alone. You know? And we're like, okay, yeah, that's a cool song. Let's try that. But I want you guys to all play instruments. Any of you play instruments at this point? You know, none of 'em did at that point. And they were all like, and Robbie's like, well, I play piano a little bit.
I said, great, you get on the piano and Asher's, you know, Asher's crazy Azure with the drumming. So he gets on a Cajon and, and I'm like, aria, let me, let me, you look like you could play bass. And she had this like really cool vibe. She was [00:26:00] the tallest one. So I grabbed my bass and I was like's really easy, just a few lines here, but Okay, cool.
And Amelia had just started playing violin and she only knew like a few notes that violin was like tiny, like a baby almost, not real violin. So. Within an hour. We, they had learned the song and I recorded the video and it was cute. Wait, they, they never played, I mean never played, never played together and Yeah.
Right. Never played together. Unbelievable. And they were just singing together.
James: Yeah.
Rob: And so, and I was encouraging like, well, if you're a musician, you should play an instrument too. You know, not just sing. It's much better for your songwriting and you can become more creative. And so, finish the song, put it on YouTube and forgot all about it.
Like literally, we left about a month later and went on a trip to Colorado. I am on the top of the mountain in Colorado in Steamboat, and my phone rings and I wasn't taking any calls from work or anything. And then I look at my phone and I'm like, that's an L. I'm just living in California. So I was like, oh, that's an LA number.
I was so weird. I don't know. In LA right now. I'll [00:27:00] put it to voicemail. Right. So put the, put the call to voicemail and now we're eating lunch at the top of the mountain. I just have this nagging feeling. I'm like, probably listen to that message. Right. I don't know why. I just, I just need to listen to that message and I, I get on the phone and I listen to the message like, hi, my name is, I won't say your name, but from America's Got Talent out in la and I saw a video on YouTube of your kids.
Wow. And I just, I was like, who's pranking me right now? Are you kidding me? This is not real. I called her back and I, and I said, Hey, I'm super protective of my kids. I need to know that you're really who you say you are. If you are, and I'm like in text, I'm like, send me an email with the domain of something that is like proof that you are who you say you are.
Like, right. You know, I'm looking for like what, whatever her name is at America's Got talent.com Right. Or something. And she's like, are you by your email right now? I was like, sure. And she's like, Bing. I just sent you an email and I was like, oh, okay. I'm so sorry I, you're real. So what's going on? And she's like, well, [00:28:00] listen, we saw the video.
And they're just like, they're so cute and so talented. Is there any way when you guys consider being on the season coming up? And so that moment was a moment that Karen and I were like immediately got, right. Combine that with, in 2021, when that vision came to me, it was very clear. Yeah. I knew what I needed to do.
I needed to take this talent that God gave us and these kids and our family unity, blend it together and encourage others. So one of the coolest things I wanna share, if it's okay to share this with you Yeah. Is, you know, a lot of times entrepreneurs start journeys because they think, I wanna, I wanna solve a problem where I wanna create something new and innovative, and I want my name on something right before I die.
Well, what I didn't realize was that. The impact that just simple things like creating a song. Yeah. Or creating a video could do or a social post. So fast forward three years after this all started, you know, we're getting thousands and thousands dms on [00:29:00] social, 'cause these kids have like said, we, we, we put our stake in the ground.
Like we're writing Christian music and we're a family and we're united. And so, you know. Some people don't like that, but for the most part, we've got, I mean, there's sifting through thousands of, of people responding to us, and some of them make me just wanna cry because it's just the, the, the depravity out there.
There's children like 13 years old saying, Hey, I have extreme depression and I thought about suicide, but when I watched your video, when I saw your song and I saw the way that your family is united. Mm. I didn't, I I didn't wanna go through with it anymore. Wow. I knew there was hope. Yeah. It's those moments where I'm like, okay, see, I see there's a bigger plan here.
And it's not about me and it's not about our family. It's about what God's trying to do with us and
James: through us. That's incredible. So you guys have been doing this a few years and it's advanced from that little stage in Asheville, North Carolina. Give us an update on like. What Hope Lane's doing now.
Yeah. What your kids, because your [00:30:00] kids have individually and collectively Yeah. Some pretty incredible things, right?
Rob: Yeah. We've, we've had some cool experiences, like with Amelia playing violin. We flew out to Iowa State Fair and she played on the main stage with Lindsay Sterling. Wow. The two of them together, a duet.
It was amazing night. It was like 20,000 people in the, outside amphitheater and then we've gone to, uh, Nashville, the GMA Dev Awards, , met Brandon Lake and all these really amazing artists on the floor with them. Yeah, so we are steadily putting out Music Hope Lane, and this year we decided that we were going to, we'll branch out and launch three of the fours.
Individual careers because they're, they have a unique style, unique creativity, unique artistry, and so Asher. His. Actually, it's funny because this song, first song comes out on Friday. Okay. Yeah. And another, uh, hope Lane song is coming out on Friday. And then following that, Aria's got a couple songs. And then Amelia, of course, violin singing.
She's got so much, we have so much music.
And we're [00:31:00] just gonna invest in them and see what God's gonna do with it. That's incredible. We're not trying to be famous or anything, it's just about like what God is going to do with it.
James: You still have the YouTube channel that they're posting stuff up to too as well? Not
Rob: really that much anymore. Yeah, that that's kind of fallen away because. YouTube's not really used for that anymore. Right. You know, it's a different platform for learning and, uh, entertainment and, and songs are short.
You'd have to do a music video for everything, and that's very expensive.
Social is definitely our place. Okay. And they have a big following on social.
James: Okay. And it's at Hope Lane or? Yep. Hope Lane. The band. The band. Hopefully in the band. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Rob
Rob: Robbie has like 101,000.
James: That's incredible. That's awesome.
Okay, let's turn the corner to entrepreneurship. 'cause I think, you know, there's probably people listening today who are in that space that are creators. Either, you know, creating a, an app or some sort of business or [00:32:00] creating content and putting themselves out there. So I know that, uh, you, you and I have had several conversations, just me asking questions and about, and you've, you've always given me nuggets that I've, you know, didn't know or didn't think about.
And so I'm interested just from the entrepreneurial space, like what are some lessons, especially in the area, like, 'cause you have to be pretty resilient, right? And, and adaptable. So. So what are some things that have helped you maintain resiliency or some lessons that you've learned that you would share to a young entrepreneur or somebody who's struggling with if, if they're in the right space or not, that would help them keep going in the entrepreneurial space?
Rob: Hmm. That's a, that's a good question. Resiliency. Resiliency is something that you get by falling down. Hmm. You have to fail to become resilient.
James: Hmm.
Rob: And I think. If I look back at all the different startups that I've started myself or [00:33:00] invested in or helped someone, I, there's been more failures than successes and, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
I think that's a good thing because especially if you can cut your losses early and understand, and I always have this philosophy and my dad taught me this when he was in the government and it was every time something happens, good or bad, try to look back at. The reasons why.
James: Hmm.
Rob: Try to get to the root cause of why you, why it ended the way it did.
Okay. And this root cause thinking always has been, this has been this just bottom foundation of everything I do afterward. And so once I, if you really dig in and you understand why did I fail? Or why did that project fail, why did that start up fail? You may realize, and a lot of entrepreneurs are like, it's me.
I made mistakes. My bad. I did about, I did some wrong, I made some wrong decisions at the end of the day. It could be something like that. But for the most part it's not that. Yeah, it's, I didn't, I didn't put my money in the right place.
James: Hmm.
Rob: I didn't think about this part of this business [00:34:00] and I didn't put enough attention on it.
I put too much attention over here, for example, marketing instead of spending any, any dollars on marketing. 'cause you're waiting for the perfect product to come out. Right. And then all of a sudden you get there and it's like. Nobody knows about this and I don't have enough money to tell anybody. Yeah. So
James: yeah,
Rob: those are, those are lessons you have to learn by actually going through that.
Yeah. And understanding that. Right. Uh, and there's so many lessons to be learned afterwards, of course, while you're going through it as well. But you know, you don't really learn a ton of lessons if you just start a product. You know, you get someone to throw money at it and all of a sudden it becomes super successful.
Right. I mean, there's, there's really not a lot to learn in that case, which doesn't happen very often. Right. It does not happen that often. Right. And if you look at any story of any super successful person, they will tell you it was painful at times. Mm-hmm. And they wanted to quit and they weren't done.
They were like, I don't wanna do this anymore. This is too much, this is too hard. I find so many entrepreneurs that are in a spot where they're like, I just need more money, so I'm gonna go get a job. And then they end up. Putting their, [00:35:00] their startup as like the last priority. Right. And it doesn't go anywhere.
Yeah. Because they made the money. That, you know, in uncomfortableness is where you always live as an entrepreneur, right? Mm-hmm. Now, if you've made it and you're successful and you can invest in other people and you don't have to worry about that uncomfortableness, then that's great. But failure is essential to resiliency.
Really good.
James: I wanna pull that thread a little bit because one of the last conversations we had, or coffee was I was wrestling with this idea of the use of my time as an entrepreneur. And you know, I have this technology startup that working in, but because I'm not the developer, I'm not the, the guy who's coding and so forth, there's only like so much that I can do.
And we're having this conversation about how do you, how do you in invest your time so that. You gave me some great advice just on the role of entrepreneur in, in raising funds. Can you [00:36:00] talk a little bit about that?
Rob: Yeah, I think I remember that conversation, so I'll break it down a little bit more. One, one of the things we talked about was if you're a founder, know what you're great at.
Mm-hmm. Right. And know what you're not good at. Mm-hmm. Because if you can figure that out, and you can be humble enough to understand that and say, oh yeah, a lot of guys are like, or gals are like. Great seller, and I'm a great coder, and I'm a great at this and I'm great at everything. And they say, I could do it all.
And you're like, but I always, they most of the time fail because they haven't learned the art of delegation, the art of letting other people that are better at something than you do that. Yeah.
James: Yeah.
Rob: And that is a hard lesson because we as entrepreneurs always want to fix everything and do everything ourselves.
We can. Like, well, well, I'm faster than the other person, you know, so I'll, let me just do it. You have to learn to delegate.
James: Yeah.
Rob: And so I think along what we were talking about was if you're the kind of founder that is really good at communication, connecting with people and networking, having those conversations about value.
[00:37:00] Mm-hmm. Like this, you know, here's, here's the vision of what we're doing and it's gonna change lives and it's gonna, you know, do all these things. You're the perfect person to talk with investors. Mm-hmm. If you're the, if you're the person that's like, I just wanna be in the code, I wanna build something really cool, I'm like really into that.
Okay. Don't put that person in front of the investors. Right? Like, they can be in the meeting with you, but that person should be doing what they're really great at. Yeah. And they're gonna, they're gonna appreciate that as well. Not being pulled into, out of there and into, you know, into some uncomfortable situations.
And so. You've done a really great job with your startup of embracing that right away. Mm-hmm. In the very beginning. And I think that's gonna be, it's gonna help you a lot.
James: Yeah. It's funny you were talking about delegating. My oldest daughter works for the company and when we first started, you know, trying to get information out or send me emails and so forth, I would go into our C-U-C-M-S and I'd write emails, and I remember one time she's like, she calls me James in meetings, but.
One-on-one, she calls me that. She's like, dad, would you just [00:38:00] stay outta my work? This is what I do. Right. You don't do this. Stay away from it. I was like, okay. So I, you know, try to get that's, but when you're starting something, you feel like it's like your baby. You touch everything. You have to do everything.
Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I think the other thing that's been interesting to me in the entrepreneur space is just even now I'm more highly aware of when I talk to ENT entrepreneurs, usually entrepreneurs are doing multiple things. I. It's like, you know, and this is part of that conversation too, is like you can't always put all your eggs in one basket, right?
Yeah. And so like that really freed me up to kind of go and, you know, you hear entrepreneurs like they're running four or five businesses at the same time, and for some people that seems like crazy. But now I'm in that space, it's like, yeah, I can see Yes. How you can do that and why you do that. Right, right.
Yeah. So that's been really good. What other things about entrepreneurship, if. If you were having a coffee with a, a group of, you know, people in startup that were, you know, just trying to learn and grow, what are some of the things you would say to 'em? Well, [00:39:00]
Rob: definitely would be this failure conversation.
Mm-hmm. Like, it's okay. You should fail and you should be proud of it, and you should learn from it, number one. And try things. Try hard things. Try to do things that you're uncomfortable with and, and learn from 'em. Mm-hmm. Right. You're not gonna win 'em all, but Right. You will. You win 'em all because you'll learn something from 'em all.
And the second thing would be the whole delegation that we talked about, right? Like, just understand what your strengths are and be okay with that, right? Because you were built a certain way and you've got certain experiences other people don't have. And, and just embrace that and, and go all in on that.
Yeah. Put the people around you that have the, the strengths that you don't have, right? That's the second thing. And the third thing is like, dare to do something amazing and don't be afraid.
James: Yeah. Like
Rob: you're gonna come up against competition and people telling you. More than competition. You're gonna come up with people going like, are you crazy?
Yeah. Why are you doing that? You don't need to do that. There's already something like that out there like that. Right? Yeah. There's always that, those negative and they're probably the closest people around you a lot of times, right? Right. That are super comfortable in their [00:40:00] job. They're like, oh, I have a 401k savings and this and that, and then what do you have?
And you're like, well, I have my business. Yeah. Why? Why would you do that? Are you crazy? Yeah. No, it's just I feel like I, this is my DNAI have to create things and solve problems and, and bring people along with me, you know? Yeah. I think it's part of the mission thinking actually. 'cause um, if you think about entrepreneurs are the ones that are creating new jobs for people.
Yeah. They're, they're helping families by creating new jobs and getting people out of monotony and things like that. So yeah, I would, those would be, those are kind of the main things that I would,
James: yeah, I mean, the reality is, you know, without great risk, there's not great reward. Right. Every risk has, you know, the, the negative sides of it.
But I think that's the, that's the piece that has inspired me in this journey is that you could be safe. And there's a lot of people who are built for nine to five. Yeah. You know, jobs and that's okay. And I did that, you know, I did that for, you know. Three decades. It wasn't nine to [00:41:00] five, it was really all in, in ministry, but Right.
You know, you had regular office hours and meetings and managing and so forth. And it is a new discipline of knowing how to prioritize your time to the most important things. And sometimes those things don't seem as important to other people, but you know that it's those, those things that are gonna continue to move the, the business forward.
I, I love that that idea that you just talked about of just being okay to fail. Right. And I think one of the things that you have helped me understand is being able to hear hard things too. Like I think that that role of mentorship and advisor in your world as as an entrepreneur, you know, the Bible talks about the multitude of counsel, their success, where there's not great counsel, there's failure.
Right? Why that is. That is proved. That is absolutely true, and I think it's easy sometimes to have, you know, to hear all the positive stuff, oh, this is the best thing ever. Like there's nothing like [00:42:00] this. It is gonna take off and it can, the thing that's harder to hear is when you get a realist kind of telling you like, man, this is gonna be hard to raise money on.
This is a, I was just on a call the other day with, with somebody, I was talking to him about Tri Fundit and what we're doing and. He didn't completely understand the business model, which is fine. And, but his first thing is like, you know, SaaS, you know, is, is a hard business and I, I don't invest in SaaS anymore.
And I'm like, okay. And he was, you know, giving me advice on what he thought. And you know, I had to kind of go, you know, my mind. And internally I'm kind of going, yeah, you don't, you haven't been here on the journey. You don't know how good this is. But I had to actually kind of go. There's truth in what you're saying.
Yeah. That's, that's, and I have to embrace that because to reject that doesn't make me better as an entrepreneur, doesn't make me better as a business leader, or doesn't help us iterate on the product. Right. To make it better, you know, to fulfill the purpose behind it. And so. That role of mentorship in [00:43:00] advising, you've done a lot of that.
What would you say about that? You know, how did people find the right mentors, the right guidance to, to help them in, in business? Yeah.
Rob: Well first of all, I love, I just love what you're saying there and that's just rings so true. You know, when I mentioned earlier about find your strengths and find the people around you to, to fulfill the strengths that you don't have, that wasn't just workers or people, partners, that's mentors as well.
People that. Just don't have that way of thinking about finance, for example. Right. Right. They'll, they'll run the numbers. You, you'd be like, oh, I got this great, I'm gonna sell this many things. Right. And they go, what's the market doing? Right. And they, they go, here's what I saw. And you're like, whoa, that's very different than what I thought.
Yeah. But you need that. 'cause then you like dial back your, okay, well then based on that, I'm gonna have to dial my sales. Yeah. Forecasting down to a more realistic Right. That's just one example. But yeah, I mean. Mentors and coaches and advisors for a, for a startup are essential.
James: Mm-hmm.
Rob: Especially once you get past the ideation stage and you start [00:44:00] to really build something and pour some money into something, you, you wanna make sure you do that.
James: Mm-hmm. Or
Rob: you're gonna go, you know, you'll make some decisions that you wish you didn't.
James: Yeah. Finding them, then you're always gonna make decisions that you wish you didn't like, because it's always iterative. Right. And so like, you don't know necessarily the outcome. So, you know, that's one of the things I'm learning is like.
You're, you're always gonna, you're never gonna hit it a hundred percent. And you have to be okay with that. Right. Well, we talked about a, a
Rob: concept early on, and not only we talk about this concept of delegating, but we talked about agile. Mm-hmm. And, uh, in the software industry, agile is like the, the method that we all use to iterate and to bring, to build as much value as possible in the short period of time.
Right. And I, I have embraced agile. Our family embraces agile in everything we do now, even tasks on the weekend. Um, but we, so we, we. Always look at everything like, okay, if we focus on this one thing and how much time would it take and how much value would it bring?
James: Mm-hmm.
Rob: And the [00:45:00] problem is with task lists are people tend to do what they want to do.
James: Mm-hmm.
Rob: Right? And not what's the most important thing to do. Right. So there's a few things that I have done over the course of time that I will not move on, and that is one is thinking agile and planning agile. And so I'll always take this, this way of planning everything that we do for all the different businesses, and that is get a backlog of all items that need to get done.
And then on a weekly or biweekly basis, force yourself and the team to go through this backlog and figure out what is the most important, what are the most important things that we have to get done over the next week? Mm-hmm. Or the next two weeks. And then say, no. To the other things.
James: Right?
Rob: Because the problem is you say yes to so many things that everything's done at like 10%, at 20%, 30%.
Yeah. And nothing ever gets done. Right. And you end up doing things that aren't even important. Right. A lot of times. Right. That is probably the, if there was a, another piece of advice I would give to entrepreneurs is that right there. Focus on the things that matter the most right now. [00:46:00] Yeah. And don't do those other things yet.
Yeah. Just wait. Yeah. It's okay. You're gonna get to 'em.
James: Yeah.
Rob: If you do these things.
James: Yeah.
Rob: And so Kanban, agile, all of those methodologies, if you can embrace those and use them every day, it will help you get things done that are value. Yeah. Faster.
James: Yeah. Kind of a, the thing for me when I stepped into the technology space, I just saw like, all this stuff is easy.
Like why can't you do all these things at once? Right. And. Our, our product manager has been really good at helping me discipline. We have a big, big project list and we, we go through it every week and we walk through. It's like, okay, what, what are we working on? The updates on it, and sometimes we'll kind of go, I'll say, Hey, I have this thing that I think it needs to be, where do you want that?
Do you want that now above, because we can all add all this stuff to the list, but we to keep the vision of like what's most important Yep. In doing that. So that's really good. Rob, I'm, I'm interested, you know, as an entrepreneur, like how do you stay, you know, fresh, renewed, like, [00:47:00] you know, you obviously are doing a lot.
You have the production company, the, the band. You have Aurelia, you have consulting, you know, so how, what do you do personally to stay fresh and, and renewed and healthy as an individual?
Rob: You know, I thank the lord that, that he. Provided my wife because she's so fun. Mm-hmm. And she loves to have fun. She loves to plan things and get me outta the house because I'm just have this tendency of just wanting to keep creating and doing things Right.
Right. I want, I'm like, I'm not done yet.
James: Yeah.
Rob: I'm not done. I wanna keep doing this. And she pulls me outta there. So I've learned from her to, and this has been game changing for me. I think we talked about this at one one of our lunches, but. As an entrepreneur, you know, you have different hours than most people, right?
Mm-hmm. You, you, I mean, like sometimes my teams are, my development teams are in Ukraine and you know, England and all over the, all over the world. And so time zones are different. Yeah. So I'm waking up super early to do meetings, and then I'm still working late at night for another client or [00:48:00] something else, right?
For music stuff. And then. So I've had to embrace a few things personally that have been game changers for me. So, for example, um, you know, learned this at a Christ Fellowship Yeah. Which was an amazing, the first, first 15. Right. But what I do the first, third year, first hour, yeah. So when I wake up, the very first thing I do is I spend time with God.
Mm-hmm. And, and that's reading the Bible. It's, it's praying for everybody, all these things and people and everything going on. And it's doing some worship as well, and it's super hard to do that when you're so busy. But it's so fruitful.
James: Yeah,
Rob: so fruitful. Yeah. It just puts your mind and your heart in a place where your decision making throughout the day, it's centered.
It's much, much more clear. So start with that. Then work I Kanban and Time box, everything. Mm-hmm. And time boxing is the art of. Taking those high priority tasks. Yeah. Across all your different things and actually putting them in your calendar, right? Like not just talking about, I'm [00:49:00] gonna get them done, but like, okay, commit to getting 'em done by putting 'em in your calendar.
Yeah. So then throughout the day you're like, oh, I gotta do that task. Yeah. And you're reminded of that and it helps you get things done. Yeah. So those two things to start with. And then I've learned that having some exercise, getting outta the house, doing things like that. So. I started to do this thing where in the middle of the day, instead of working through lunch, I stop and I get outta my office or the studio, and literally I created a space where, oh, you can go to the gym or somewhere else like this.
Mm-hmm. Or take a walk, whatever. But the, but have a space where you can go and disconnect from everything. Okay. And do something for yourself. Yeah. For your, for your body, for your health. And mine is like, sometimes I'll get on Apple Fitness. Do a strength workout. Mm-hmm. And just focus on the trainer telling me what to do.
Right. Go take a shower afterwards, grab a quick bite to eat, get back into this, and, and I'm literally like, it's like a brand new day.
James: Yeah.
Rob: It's, I'm not tired, I'm not like bogged down with thinking and whatever I had left before, I'm more clearly thinking about how to solve that [00:50:00] problem. And so just balancing the act of taking care of yourself, putting God first.
And, and just getting out of there. Yeah. Disconnecting from your day to day.
James: Yeah. I think, I think one of the things that I'm, I'm realizing is that because my day is not regimented by other people's agendas, it's regimen, it's regimented by my agenda. And so, like I was telling my wife, there's, I don't know if you've ever had this, but like the last week or so, like I've been so focused head down on projects that like, I'll look at my calendars like.
Oh man, I missed, I'm, I'm 20 minutes late to a meeting 'cause I get so focused on Sure. You know, so, but I think one of the things you said is really good, and I had this discipline in my life for years now, of that morning routine, whatever that is, that you have this consistent way. That you're launching your day.
Yeah. You know, like, I think, you know, where I really struggle is if I jump in and I miss my morning routine, then it throws everything off. It does [00:51:00] throw everything off. It's like, it's like, have a second. It's like you, you are launching your day in a certain way and it sets the day up. And so, you know, my, you know, my guidance to any leader, any business leader, any creator is like, even if you don't have to have a routine early in the morning mm-hmm.
If you're flexible mm-hmm. If you create that routine, it sets you up for success all day long. It does. Which is really important. So that's good. This has been a really great conversation, and thank you. I, I, I am actually blown away. I didn't realize like we were gonna get all these different places, but it's been incredible just to, to hear your journey, to hear what's going on.
Let's go back to Aurelia for a second. Mm-hmm. Because if there are musicians or people who are in that space and. What, what would be the next step that they could get involved with? Aurelia?
Rob: Yeah, so Aurelia is free. We, I mean, we're serious about our mission, right? Mm-hmm. Create, empower, and encourage. So part of the empower part is building something [00:52:00] for people to use that's gonna empower their career.
Right? Right. So we're serious about that. So we made a really free, so there's a tier, there's a free tier for any musician artist that wants to get out there and start to use it and, and get some. Understand their audience and their social and, and their streams and stuff. And then we also built additional tools on top of that.
So, uh, in Aurelia they can not only get a, a glimpse of all of everything that's happening in their music and their streams and their social and their fans, but we wanted them to be able to connect with fans as well. So we're just about to release to the public an entire module called My Fans. That's awesome.
And it's gonna be a CRM for them to hold their fans in and their, the whole text SMS stack of messaging and campaign building tools where they'll be able to actually connect with their fans through Aurelia and then watch what happens on the analytics side to see how their efforts connecting with fans about their shows and merch and putting links in there to buy, you know, tickets.
That's incredible. It's, it was the next evolution of the music business os connection. So we [00:53:00] had the. Visual representation of what's happening and then the like connecting part. So yeah, uh, it's free and welcome anyone to join. And where would they go to to look more of that? The easiest way is Aurel app.
James: AEL app, and I'll put that in the show notes for sure. Thank, before we go, one last question. If you had one, it doesn't have to be about entrepreneurship, it could be about anything in life, but like one piece of wisdom on leadership, something that's really shaped you. That about your own soft leadership or leading your family?
Is there anything that you would just wanna say?
Rob: I mean, the word, the only one word as you're saying that sentence and you're asking the question, one word is popping into my head. Humble.
James: Hmm hmm.
Rob: It's especially when you get to a point in your career where you've had some successes. Mm-hmm. And people look up to you for different things.
It's so important to remember to be humble and to still be a servant. Because as [00:54:00] you were growing up and becoming a successful entrepreneur, whatever you're doing in your life, people stood aside alongside you and helped you, and coached you, and mentored you. They were humble enough to do it, and when you embrace that fact and you realize how important it's to be humble, you open yourself up to so much more opportunity and clarity.
James: Yeah, that's great. That would be
Rob: it.
James: Awesome man. We'll have to do this again because you're just around the corner. But thanks so much for being on the show today, man. I really appreciate it. So
Rob: much fun. Thank you for having me.
James: Robert's journey is a reminder that what we build will never outlast us until it's anchored in something deeper than profit. Purpose is what sustains the late nights, the setbacks and the pivots. If you lose sight of the why, you'll lose the fuel that keeps you moving forward.
If you wanna explore Robert's work, check out Aurelia at Aurelia app and follow Hope Lane on social media at Hope Lane.
The band. Don't forget, you can take your own leadership to the next level with a free five day leadership [00:55:00] reset@livelylast.com slash reset.
And if you like, a weekly shot of encouragement and practical insight. I wanna encourage you to sign up for my weekly email rooted by texting Grow to 6 6 8, 6 6. You can also connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn at the James Duvall, and if today's conversation encourage you, please rate, review, and share it so that more leaders can live and lead with purpose. Until next time, keep leading with courage. Keep building what matters, and keep pressing on. [00:56:00]