The Versatility of Tile

Tile has a such creative potential. Whether it is being utilized indoors or outdoors, on the walls or floors, in practically any space, it never ceases to impress. In this episode, we are joined by interior designers to showcase the versatility of tile and how size, color, pattern, and material have all impacted its evolution over the years. Later, the show highlights tile’s development in size and geometric shape, as well as its expansion into the outdoor space, thanks to our friends at Daltile and Emser Tile.

What is The ProSource Podcast?

Creating a design concept for a kitchen or remodeling an outdated bathroom requires an understanding of the products and services available to those looking to undertake such a project. The ProSource Podcast breaks down the home remodeling industry and highlights the merchandise and experience that it requires to achieve your vision. Join ProSource Director of Digital Marketing Content Kevin Devine, as he speaks with those who facilitate the ideal project and offer valuable information for how to choose the ideal products and services that transform your ideas into reality.

Hi, I'm Kevin

Devine and this is the ProSource podcast.

In each episode,
we'll be talking to industry experts,

including trade professionals, suppliers
and our showroom staff,

about a variety of topics
within home and commercial products.

Enjoy.

Welcome everyone to another edition
of the ProSource podcast.

I'm Kevin Devine.

And today I'm joined by two people,
Brandy and Brittney from Rome Design.

Welcome, both of you. Hello.

Today, we're talking about the versatility
of tile or how tile is versatile.

Just start all the mockery of all of
the terms we can come up with there.

When I was thinking about your name, ROAM
design,

and let's be clear, that's R-O-A-M, not R-O-M-E,

So is it
because from a design perspective,

You want people to “roam” the possibilities of design
or is there a story behind it?

I'm sure there is a story behind the name.
What is? Yes.

So, as we were coming up with our brand
and trying to figure out what do we

what's the initial impact
going to be? Right.

So if we have a higher end
commercial client, we had kilo names like

Loom or BNP and we're like, you know,
it doesn't really doesn't really do much.

So as we were going through the list
of all the words we wrote,

there was certain ones
that just kept sticking out to us.

Some of those words in
no specific order were refined,

organic and modern. And we're like,

Hmmm, R-O-A-M. And that's a great play on words though..

So because it does stand for something,
but at the same time,

we like to let our minds roam in design.

And that's the best things about it, is
you kind of have unlimited possibilities.

So roaming is just kind of part of

not only our name, but us.

I love that. we love to tell people
to roam to your dream home.

You're both designers.

Let's talk a little bit about how long
your organizatio, ROAM Design

has existed and maybe areas
that you might specialize in even.

Yeah.

Which hopefully tile is one of them. Yes.

We love it.

So we've been in the business
for just a short period,

but I feel like we've grown so much in,
especially in the tile industry.

Yeah, we started off by kind of focusing
more on living room refreshes

and accent walls and adding more to that
and or little accents of wallpaper

and that quickly tumbleweed into
would you guys do kitchens

or can you do bathrooms and asking us
for like, yeah, we can do that.

Wasn't this time when I was like,
Wow, there's a lot more detail

that goes into kitchen and bath.

So, thankfully, we have amazing contractors
and suppliers that have given us

a lot of their knowledge
throughout the time frame.

So we definitely have learned a lot.

But when we started,
we knew nothing about kitchen and bath.

So it's been a
an awesome learning experience and,

you know, it'll keep going

because that's the design industry
there’s always more to learn.

It's great.

And you know, feel free to just experiment
by redesigning my house,

you know, is part of this deal
that I think that's great.

Yeah, we're still working on our end,
but we've got a little free time,

so there's no chance of this happening.

Got it.

Well, let's dive right into this
when we're talking about tile.

Why does tile provide
such an ideal canvas for design ideas?

Essentially, what makes it so versatile?

Well, from my standpoint,

I feel like it's
if you want a brick wall in your house

and you feel limited by just adding brick,
there's a tile for that.

You know,
if you want to have a concrete finish,

you can bring in that industrial style,
bringing a concrete tile.

And if there's this,

if you want a specific look, you name it,
there's a tile for it.

I mean, it kind of goes into the whole
podcast of the versatility of tile

is that there is a shape, a style,

a texture, a pattern for literally any
and every space.

So if you rather you can think of it
or your designer thinks of it or,

you know,
you just start putting tiles together

and you create this new pattern,
it can go anywhere, it can be anything.

So it can be
whatever the room needs it to be.

What's made tile so timeless?

I mean, yeah, it can certainly be trendy,
but tile as a product is so timeless.

It's constantly used
and it's so frequently part of whatever

project is going on.

Yeah, I think a lot of that and it's funny
that tile is becoming more common

now and obviously we had a lot of time

like the fifties
and it's been becoming more common.

But tile, the way it's
made is the same way brick is made

from back way, way long ago.

So I think that because of the durability,

you've got your food and moisture barrier
for kitchens and bathrooms,

you can put it on your wall
without having to worry

about getting your subboards,
or floorboards or anything

wet.

So I think a lot of it
is the protection factor that tile has,

but also it's really pretty to look at.

The way it's installed has been virtually
the same throughout all of the years.

So I think that makes it more timeless.

But tradesmen have really mastered
how to install it

and I feel like it's
going to be the same for years to come.

So, it’s just, it’s a timeless install too.

we have come a long way
from the Pepto-Bismol pink bathroom.

And the all blue bathroom.

Not that we don't maybe use those colors,
but not quite

to the way they were used back
that first year,

which Britney's how she actually embraced
the blue four by fours.

And it was always that same 4x4
tile darned halfway up the bathroom wall

and into the shower.

A lot of people always take those down,
but we're starting to see

people embracing that style.

And then a lot of brands are coming out
with tiles to match the style.

So it's kind of cool to see the evolution
of tile and how much we've gone towards

neutrals and whites and clean cream
finishes.

But also we're starting to see
those original 4x4 come back into play.

And I think it's super exciting.

With Tile being

available in just about any color
imaginable.

Spin the wheel
and you're going to land on one

that's available to your project
specifically tend to be more bold

or muted with at least
with what you suggest initially,

but maybe even where it ends up.

I'll start this one off.

We always like to start
with a clean foundation, as we call it.

So whenever people go to design a house,
we say your foundation elements

are going to be your floors,
your wallet, tile, your cabinets,

things that when you get burnt out,
you don't want to go back and switch now.

So for backsplash and stone, typically
we like to go a little bit more neutral

and then we can add in the fun
parts of color through curtains,

parcels, furniture, wallpaper.

We also like using wallpaper

though when it comes
to the foundational elements,

we do typically lean
a little bit more neutral.

Now that being said, we love a bold pop,
so if it's in smaller spaces,

maybe in a shower or in the knees,
we love to incorporate.

Rather it's black stones or solid stones
like a quarter or something to the sun.

But we love to incorporate
fun pops of stone and tile.

But at the same time I feel like overall
neutral is going to be more versatile

in the long run.

Yeah, I completely agree.

I think there's definitely spaces
where bold pops need to happen,

like a powder bath where that they may
like normal gas may not be it.

Every day when they come to your house,
but when they use the restroom,

that's the space
they're going to remember.

It's like that bold room and how you like
really push the envelope in that area.

We've talked a little bit
about the variety here

that's available,
how to spot tile size and shape impact.

The design.

For me personally,
I feel like we've seen a lot

where people have been,
let's say three by 12 white subway tile.

That's kind of like the staple
to go to at this point.

If you want to run that in a Chevron
or a herringbone pattern

and it's your backsplash,

but normally on a backsplash,
you only get about 18 inches of clearance.

So you're not actually going to see that
full pattern come through.

A lot of the times

people pick the wrong size of tile
to display the pattern we've seen.

It was either too big
and you actually don't

see the pattern laid out
or maybe it's too small

and then it looks really busy
and cluttered and crowded

and it's actually going
to make your kitchen backsplash in this.

Your kitchen in general feel smaller
because it's too much for the eyes

to look at whenever we go through
and pick out backsplash for a space.

Our thing is
what is the kitchen or the bathroom?

What's our space allowance?

What can we fit into that size
to create the best shape?

And then we kind of play from there.

So do you find yourself creating tile
patterns and think Chevron herringbone

rather than just patterned tile, but
rather taking tile to create a pattern?

Do you find yourselves doing that a lot?

Yeah, and it's very fun
when a client is open to doing that

because people are so used to that
standard Brooklyn

pattern
that that's what they think they want.

But when they're want to lean towards
more modern or a trend, we can go basket,

we can do horizontal stacked
with a vertical stacked line.

So we love when the client is like open
to ideas like that.

And again, I feel like

it's often the space that kind of dictates
what pattern we do.

So the client has more of a modern slab
cabinet.

We're not going to want to do a brick way,
obviously on that normally.

Then we'll go, Well,

how do you guys feel about doing
vertical stacked or horizontal stacked?

So although we haven't created our

I don't think we've created
our own pattern entirely yet,

we definitely do like to play
with the versatility of tile to play off

the space itself may look into like create
one that you could trademark and see.

That's our pattern
we are now starting right now.

Okay, so I'll take a 10%
finder's fee for just being present

when you came up with that.

I think that's a fair trade.

You know, some people that could sell it,
so that might actually work out.

I have a contractor. Yes. So

we've talked in some other podcasts about

the standard of white shaker cabinets,
but you've mentioned it here.

The standard in tile, especially with
backsplash, is often the white

subway tile.

Do you find yourselves
do you cringe a little bit

when people ask for that and feel like
they should go for something more,

especially if you get a kitchen
that they want to go with?

I can see when I go
with white countertops,

I'm going to go with a white backsplash.

Do you find yourself just think,
please let me put a little bit of color

into the room.

Yes. And I think that's one reason
people reach out to us is like

because they see our feet
and they see that

we add words to the space
and they're like, well,

I went to all white kitchen
and we're like, Well,

if you trust us as your designers,
can we do an off white tile

that has a little bit of variation in it

That way
you're pulling in those warm tones.

Can we add a pop of wood like some beans
in the ceiling or something like that?

But we do kind of a little bit.

We hear about white some way tile,
but there are ways to,

you know, change the pattern in the grout
color, things like that.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of compromise
and the standard white subway tile.

What I've seen more is
that people do not want to just have

a flat white standard tile.

So a lot of the ones and especially ones
that we've gravitated a lot more towards

now actually have a little bit of a wavy
finish on them.

So or maybe like a raw edge
so you get more of that texture.

Tufted Yeah, because one of the things
and like I always work lines

is whether it's a 1900 summer remodeling
or maybe it's a newer build,

we don't want the tile to look like
you added it on as an afterthought.

So if you've got, you know, this original,
maybe simplistic floors

and some detail
and character in the kitchen

and then you slap on this really crisp,
clean

y edge tile with white Grout,
it's going to stand out.

It doesn't look like it fits the kitchen.

So a lot of the times we do lean towards
boxes of tile

that have a little bit of variation
per child itself.

So even though you get one box,

some might be a little bit cooler white,
some warmer whites.

And then that way,
if you already have white white cabinets,

your tiles are going to match,
but it's still going to bring in

a little bit of warmth
and give a little bit

more flexibility within what you can also
do in the kitchen.

Okay. Yeah.

So we don't have too many clients
asking for like standard

white backsplash at this point,
which is very nice.

Pattern tile is also gaining visibility.

It seems a lot like when I go into homes
or especially new construction, even

bathrooms, but especially laundry rooms,
you're really starting to see that pattern

tile pop up a lot more.

Have you started to see that in?

What changes
have you seen with actual pattern to tile?

Yes, absolutely.

And I think we have Pinterest
to thank for that.

I say as a designer and HGTV
that really brought out

like you can show your personality
through your laundry room and bedroom.

And a lot of those tiles seem to be

Spanish and influence
and love the geometric looks.

But yes, we're
definitely seeing a lot more.

yeah.

And I think it kind of goes back to
of like

wanting your foundational elements
to be more neutral.

So like in your kitchen
or your master bedroom or master bathroom,

typically they're we're going
to see more of those neutral finishes.

But why not have the same hexagon
tile that you put

in the Master
as the pattern series and the guest?

So that way everything's cohesive,

but you just add in that little pattern,
pop into that smaller space.

That's more of that
wow factor when you walk in.

Also with the printed tiles,
because printed panels are becoming more

and more common too.

There's so many different things
you can do with them, but I feel like it

kind of originated more of like pool tiles
because a lot of people forget

that tile actually is an exterior
and outdoor product as well.

So if you think of like pools,
you see a lot of mosaics,

but there's a lot of designed tiles
in pools themselves.

But just now
people are kind of starting like,

this is kind of cool,
let's bring that inside, or vice versa.

They're bringing those indoor materials
to the outside.

What can wall tile add to the design?

So let's now get up our flooring.

And so we've talked about basement.

wow. So you're loving this. So

yes, so branding

may be going first on this course,
but what does that have a design?

How has that evolved over the years?

So maybe also when you say this not just
backsplash, we're talking, you know,

you can be talking fireplaces,
you can be talking showers

in a lot of different places here
with this.

Yeah.

I mean, I could sum up that question
in one word and it would be impact

when you walk into a room now instead of
being a wallpaper or just drywall.

Now when you walk into certain spaces
like kitchens or fireplaces especially,

we're seeing taller ceilings or vaulted
ceilings or cabinets going all the way

up to your nine foot ceilings,
adding the backsplash all the way up.

It instantly adds an impact.

When you walk into the room, it's
going to catch light.

It's going to have a reflection value
to it.

It's going to make the room
not only feel bigger,

but it's just going to open up
the space as well.

And anytime we walk into a kitchen
that has that full backsplash

all the way up,
it just provides a bigger impact.

So that's my personal answer on

tarmacs versus

what have you seen over over time
that makes them such a mainstay?

And I think a lot of times

we say backsplash, most people immediately
think kitchen.

It's in other places too.

yeah.

I think just like how often people see it

and the houses
they look at to buy and over the years

standard
Brooklyn has been around for years

and years
as well as the stacked four by fours.

That just makes it a mainstay
when people walk into a home,

especially a new construction home

that doesn't have any backsplash
and they feel like something's missing.

Some people are okay with,

you know, the drywall finish on there,
but not having the backsplash

like a lot of people are just like,
what's missing?

Yeah, no, it is finishing
a piece of the puzzle for sure.

And not only does it

provide that visual element
that maybe you feel like you were missing

again, it goes back to the protection
of what it's on top of.

You know.

So tile originates from a Latin word
that means to cover.

So tile is covering all of the vulnerable
stuff that you don't want to get wet

or you don't want your spaghetti sauce
to sit on and soak up in the walls.

So I think just because
of how functional tile is for protection,

that's also a big reason
why it stays in play, because it's it's

a guaranteed safe space for those areas,
whether it's indoor or outdoor.

And it looks beautiful,
you know, So people want to see the tile.

Yeah.

So let's get a little trendy here and say

how have trends
impacted the timelessness of town?

So we're talking both from a creative
perspective, what helped transition tile.

So it's kind of a two fold care,
how trends impacted it.

And then also the from
a creative perspective,

what has helped tile transition
from the inside to the outside.

And you've mentioned it quite a bit
with pool and other things outside.

So well, let's start in the first part.

Let's look at the trends and their impact.

I would say the opposite of your question.

okay.

Well, that's something
I'm going to go on a limb here.

I feel like tile has impacted
the trend more than the versa.

And I say that
because the versatility of tile.

So in the fifties versus 1670s eighties
nineties as our record feel on our style

keeps changing tile is the front line
runner to keep up with that style change.

So like right now we have a lot of fluted
or beaded and ribbed products coming out.

Whether that's your vanities or

furniture,
the tile has already been there.

So I feel like the tile actually plays
in to the trend

before the trend
really plays into the tile.

I don't know if that makes sense or not,
but the more I read that question,

it's like I almost feel like it's tile is
it keeps up with the trend

more than the trend
makes the tile okay titles as well.

I don't know if I would say

setting the trend, but I feel like it's
always going to be a timeless trend with

what's going on because tile can be made
to match any style.

So kind of a tricky question,
but I'm one of those over thinkers

that will be like, Wait a second, hold on.

And then I think too far into it. No,
that's fine.

That's my first question. I wanted to see
just how deep you go into it.

It's a I look at it as paring down
flooring

or even on hardwood
started as a trend way back when.

And then it kind of went to the wayside
because it's harder to install.

But since it is still in play
in those areas, people

haven't tore up their herringbone floors
because they're beautiful.

But now that herringbone pattern is coming
back, it's

it's been trendy,
but it's also a timeless finish proof

that if you hang on to something
long enough, eventually cycle's background

comes into trend.
You're like, Hey, look, I'm there. Yes.

Actually, with your designs
and with some of the things you've put

together, are you've you've talked about
how sturdy kind of in the living room.

Suddenly you're in kitchens and bathrooms.

Are you morphing more outside as well
and taking tile out the door?

we don't get to too many

exterior projects, which is mainly
because we try to focus on our lane.

We don't want to take off
more than we can handle.

And there's experts
for every category of house.

What we do like to do is recommend certain
tiles, so to kind of match the outside.

So we don't do a whole lot of designing
for outdoor spaces.

But if it's like an outdoor fireplace
or maybe like the pools around,

like we talked about earlier, outdoor
kitchens, etc., we do love to bring

the indoors outdoor, even though
usually it's the other way around.

Again, tile is an outdoor material.

I just think people have got so far
into backsplash

specific on tile that they forgot
tile is an outdoor product as well.

So now you are seeing it more around
pools, rather that's on

resorts or personal homes around
wood burning pizza

makers outside that you're starting to see
it become an outdoor product a lot more.

And I think that's because people forgot
that it is also an outdoor product.

They might think they have to use a heavy
natural stone that costs ten times

the cost of tile.

But in reality there's a tile
that looks very similar for a lot less.

Yeah, and I would love to have
an outdoor piece of it, but

I don't even know if I'd use me.

I'd use it.

I would definitely use it,
but it would look beautiful.

Do you get all these different tile
materials?

You've got ceramic, you got porcelain,
you get natural stone, and natural stone

has a lot of morphing underneath
that as well.

They're all vying for top
billing in your eyes in the design.

I So from your perspective, is there,
is there one ideal choice?

Is there one that you tend to lean toward
more or is it just literally situational?

I think we tend to lean towards

ceramic more and the main reason for that

is our installers love when we're like,
Hey, this is ceramic flooring.

So like deal, like

porcelain is definitely

a common tile as well,

but it can be
a little bit harder to install

and it just depends on the look
the client's going for.

But we tend to go to ceramic
in like more of earthy tones.

Yeah, ceramics
definitely are a frontrunner.

I would say personal opinion
Ceramic is kind of the flagship of tile.

It's just going to

feel like it's just kind of the flagship.

It's what people lean towards
and gravitate towards the most.

We've only done a couple glass tiles, one

which was a matte black
tile in a bathroom at the time.

We're like,
This is going to be super pretty.

And the client loved it.

But then as we kind of thought back
on, it was like, That's going to be tricky

to keep up with a matte glass
tile in the bathroom.

So we like ceramic for the long term.

The durability,
the contractors install process,

it seems to just be a a win
all for everybody.

Okay.

Well, I thank you both for being here.

Your feedback has been fantastic as we've
your answers are as versatile, as tired.

So that's that's great.

Brandi, Brittany, thank you so much
for being here and joining us.

Absolutely. Thank you for having us.

You're so appreciative to be here.

Okay.

So now we're going to transition
over to Patrick Warren with Dell Tile.

Patrick,
thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Things like Kevin's good to be here.

So we're talking
about the versatility of tile

and I would certainly think Dell
Tile would know a thing or two about that.

I think we do 77 year old business.

yeah.

So it's a little while
with a little bit of experience.

So let's start with this.

What trends or developments

have you seen over the years
that has had a direct impact on tile?

You know, I would say there's two
key trends that we've seen

that are pretty dramatic over
the most recent term, but really change

the face of kind of the look of tile
and the way people shot for tile.

The first one is the technology
of the product, whether that's

anti slip, whether that's anti mold,

whether that's the technology
to allow the product to be larger sizes.

The texturing on top
how we manufacture it.

There's more technology
built into our manufacturing and really

the ultimate product
that somebody selects than ever before.

And the second one is how that it's

that selection journey
that a customer goes through.

There's so much more digitization
with what they select.

They start on a website,
they go through, they look at things,

they can look in our style
or to see what it looks like in the room.

So those two components together
have completely changed really

how easy or how adaptable
the shopping experience

is and ultimately the product
that they select when we're talking tile,

are there particular
looks like for example, would look tile,

are there looks that are trending upward
more than others?

There are you're seeing a lot of

you know if you look at wall and floor
separately you if you take the wall

the wall is looking
we're looking at that larger format wall

that that larger elongated
dish was becoming very popular

and in the shape of some of the mosaics
we look at on the floor side,

interestingly enough,
we're actually seeing smaller unit sizes,

like we have some product,
the new product, Indo Tower.

We're going to launch
into more of a brick.

Look,
you're seeing that smaller scale for floor

to add to a little bit of more dimension.

We've gone from larger to small.

Also.

See, by the way, on the flip side of it,
we also see the 24 by 48 site

becoming very popular.

So it's all about the nostalgia

and kind of that authenticity of what
the product looks like.

But when you're saying smaller
sounding for some of the examples

you were giving there,

we're not necessarily talking mosaics,
not that some people don't do that.

You're not talking like that small.

You're just talking smaller
than the large format.

Yeah,
or even smaller than a 12 by 12 even.

Yeah, smaller than 12 by 12.

You're seeing the literally
that brick look is becoming very popular.

We're launching quite a few products
are going to fall into that category.

Then on the wall side

you actually see this elongated longer
three by 14, six by 14.

So these larger longer sizes

that allow it a more different visual
than we really have seen before.

So we've talked about,
look, let's kind of stay a little bit in

that realm of what you see, but let's spin
the color wheel a little bit.

And are there certain hues those
I just wanted to use the word hue

in a sentence, but are there certain hues
that are more enviable than others?

You know, right now, white is king.

White rules, right?

Everybody wants white
that that marble Carrara kind of look.

But we're also seeing the blues,
the green versions of both of those that

provide kind of that serenity and calming
feel, which there's a there's a term

out there called Biophilia, which brings
nature into the design aspect of it.

And that's part
of what we're seeing as well.

The other thing is you're seeing less
gray.

You're seeing more of that grays
and even warming up to that beige look.

So it's it's kind of getting a little

hints of brown in there to give it
a little more of a brown perspective

with what seems to be an abundance
of jiomart geometric shapes.

Is there actually a shape
that we have not seen yet?

You know, we actually have a new shape.

It's a one by six wall product
that we actually call the Kit-Kat size.

We were at the kitchen table
show talking about it.

We just kind of started
calling it the Kit-Kat size

and it hit with all the designers.
They love it.

It could get size.

The other size, it's been pretty popular.

Is small and large, a hex size.

So you've got the small hexes
and then we have several eight

by eight hexes that are extremely popular.

So you're seeing

you're seeing a uniqueness
in some of the sizing that people are

kind of migrating toward.

So since you called it the Kit Kat,

I just got a phone call from the Twix bar
and they're feeling a little left out.

So you have to work on something.

The reader will be The Twix
What's been the feedback

you've been getting from trade pros
regarding the abundance of options

that are out there?

How is are they basically saying,
Hey, there's too much

If there is such a thing
as having too much,

or they give you direction in some ways
with what they're seeing,

we well, I will say that
we are a very heavy, intense

category, SKU intensive, like there's
a lot of product on the market.

But what that gives you
is that gives you a creative

kind of an artistic ability
to do anything you want with that visual.

There are rather than just have one
size, one shape, one color, typically

not one color obviously,
but the all the various sizes

shape, texturing, all that comes together,
that gives you the ability

to make a unique environment
to your choice and design technique.

Well, how is the range of the tile sizes?

We've talked about small mosaics.

We talked about large
and even long format tile.

How has that affected
how you think about creating new products

like, for example,
how did that maybe drive the Kit Kat tile?

We're always looking at, you know, first
you are a bit not

I wouldn't say constrained.

We have to make sure
you can make a product right.

We also look at
what sizes we feel like are trending

or maybe could provide an accent
like the Kit Kat could be a nice belly

spot across the room
and accent in the shower were.

What we're trying to do is leverage sizes
that allow a creative angle

to be different than it was before
because tile really

is there for a lifetime

and you want to be able
to put your signature on that

in different sizes
and shapes allows it to do that well.

So great effort has been made with regard
to making tile more sustainable.

What's been the drive behind those efforts
and maybe what's the next step

in that initiative?

You know,

first of all, I really think that the most
sustainable product

is ceramic tile, right?

I mean, it's
literally coming from clay and dirt.

You put it together, you push it out on
the floor, looks gorgeous.

One of the things we focus on is,

you know, our it's it's a big effort
for our manufacturing plants

to have a sustainable story,
what their footprint is on the earth.

But it's interesting
when you look at the different generation

gap generation bands, your Gen X, Gen
Y, your millennials, your baby boomers,

they all have a different interpretation
of what sustainability is.

And we have to make sure
that we're talking to all of those points.

You know, baby boomers look at it
differently than the Y generation

looks at it.

We want to make sure that we're answering
all those questions with a product

then ultimately sellable and beautiful
and has that sustainable story

very important to us
to have a sustainable story

when you look at the different tile
materials.

So we talked about all this versatility.

There's versatility
even in the material itself.

All tiles that equal, you've got ceramic,
you got porcelain,

you got natural stone, and there's
a lot of branches off of natural stone.

So what are some of the benefits of each?

And have you seen sort of a usage
swing in one direction

or the other between
those different material types?

Yeah, you know,
I kind of put it into two buckets

your natural and your manufactured.

I'm the stone component.

Look, stone visuals are

unbelievable, right?

They're natural.

They're created over millions of years.

That look is is what consumers
and designers are driving toward.

When you look at what
we've done, the industry

and Dow tile specifically is done
on the porcelain component.

You're getting the best of both worlds.

You're getting a look of natural stone,

but a performance and a live ability
that stone cannot do.

You know, there are
I love a marble countertop, but

there are things you just can't do
on a map, on a marble countertop.

You can't spill red wine, for example.

There's a performance story with porcelain
that gives you the same look.

Ultimately,
no matter what the consumer or let's call

this personal selector,
well, style and design will always win.

So if you've got a performance story
attached to that, that

natural stone, look, for example,
that's going to win

stone will always be in the picture
for sure.

It has its place and it's beautiful.

I have it in my home,
but porcelain has a balance.

Store that takes
the consumer has much longer lifecycle.

Let's pop off the floor and

a bit to the wall, but maybe go back to
that would go back down as well.

How is wall tower development or has it

ever affected floor tile development
or even vice versa?

You know, we look at them separately,

but we look at them
how they interact together.

And I mean that by
and I'll add a third category.

We believe that
the design selection process

for a new kitchen,
let's say, begins with the countertop

and then we immediately know that there's
whatever high percentage, 95% of the time

someone's going to put a wall or mosaic
type product up against that countertop.

How does that interact with

what's happening with the countertop,
the look, the feel?

And then it has to transfer
down to the floor

so that it all works together.

So we create our products individually,
but we want to make sure

they work together
because ultimately it's a you know,

it's a multi surface
installation and a selection process.

And look, that's what we have.
We're fortunate in our category.

We have more surfaces
than any other category.

We can work with the countertops,
a wall on the floor.

Well, did did that those developments
that sort of change any creative push

or is that just ultimately a testament
to the versatility of tile?

Tile is incredibly versatile
with the design aspect.

You know, we keep combining categories
or additional we keep adding categories

to our portfolio
so that we bring who's ever designing.

We want to bring them the most options and
flexibility they can do to design that.

We're always looking beyond that
to make sure we're bringing we want to be

we want to be best in class
for having design options.

Okay,

well, let's take it out the door.

What has let's what has the expansion
of outdoor living done for tile?

Huge. Here's why it's huge.

You know, we have our Dow tile
exteriors, for example,

and I mentioned early on about
the technology, you know, slip resistant.

So now you're seeing environments

where you can have the outdoor goes in
and the indoor goes out.

So now you have these living spaces,

whether it's a kitchen
or living room or a family room area

that just transitions all the way outside
onto the patio, same product,

and you can have the same product,
one for outdoor, one for indoor.

It doesn't feel any different
but has the same esthetic Look, the

the design there is you have now increased
the size of the room

based on the ability of what
the product can perform.

You know,

typically in the past you put tile outside
and a lot of times are slip concerns

and everything like that.

We have products

that allow the outside or the inside
to transition to the outside, outside.

I don't know if boom is the right word,
but I'll go ahead and use it.

Has there been a boom or at least
a movement toward more and more outdoor

living projects that have driven
more on the outdoor living tile side?

100%.

And it's even more even
I just met yesterday.

We're talking about, you know,
we have our category called exterior,

which is a large category.

How do you put your arms around that?

You know what?

If you were breaking up

into bite sized packages, if you look,
you can go to so many people out there

that want to put in a kitchen
right outside of their patio.

They want to put a grill area.

They want to put up a platform
for a Jacuzzi, an outdoor shower.

All of these are just
And so you take our our typical prosource

showroom, someone's
going to redo a kitchen.

By the way,
you can also do the patio outside.

You've added

30% more to that project just by asking
if they want more one more room.

I think it's huge
and we've seen a big upside on that.

Certainly it has expanded more beyond
just having a deck with a grill on it, and

we are

seeing that the true outdoor
kitchen evolving.

This is something we had also asked our
our designer friends on this podcast.

But I'd like to know your take.

There definitely seems to be more
of a movement toward patterned tile.

So not necessarily

take your time creating a pattern though,
that is out there too, but patterned tile

itself, especially in laundry
rooms, mud rooms, smaller bathrooms.

Are you starting to see more of that,
more requests for that, more of a drive

then driving to even more creative
looks of for the tile you create?

Absolutely. They've always been out there.

You know, you've got the the kind of that
that Santa Fe kind of look

you also have the caustic look.

But it's a it's color
design. It's an accent.

Someone they're building a house,
redoing a house or just redoing a room.

We you know what?

I'm going to a little pop of color
in my laundry room.

I'm in there. Let's let's
let's make it look a little bit different.

I think it's great.
I think it's fantastic.

And the more times
we can offer those opportunities,

not everybody wants the same floor,
the same look

throughout the first floor of their home
or whatever floor they're doing.

Let's shake it up a little bit. It's
kind of like wallpaper.

Let's throw some wallpaper on a wall
that will look different.

If we don't like it, we can it later.

Why is Tile so freaking versatile?

I love that. The question.
And you know what?

And like here's here's the three words

I kind of came up with limited list
design opportunities.

If you think just whatever's in your head
now obviously you have installation

things you've got in floor
prep and you've got to consider.

But from a shape,
from a color, from a texture performance,

we've got

a so many products for designers
to build with that room wants to be

really it's an exciting time
to be in the ceramic tile business.

Love it.

That was it.
Those are those are my questions.

Patrick, certainly

appreciate you joining us
and sharing your thoughts with us today.

This is great.

We really appreciate everybody.

Prosource And hey,
we've any questions for any of this stuff?

Just feel free to reach out to us.

All right. Thanks.

Thanks. Go

page of gears a little bit here

and we turn our attention to Randall
Sheehy of MS2 Tile.

Randall, thanks for joining us today.

Kevin Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Good afternoon.

Well, let's just dive right into it.

We're talking about why tile is versatile,
and I'm certain you have

an opinion or two about that yourself.

So let's start with this.

What trends or developments have you seen
over the years that have impacted tile?

Well, Kevin, thanks for the question
and again, very happy to be here

and to connect with all of our our pro
Shop and Prosource customers out there.

As we look at the world today, everything
has become so much more fast paced.

We live in this digital society
and the digital world.

So with that, I think we are seeing
a big trend and a shift towards customers

wanting authentic handmade elements
and the products are purchasing today.

They want they want to feel that this
human connection or natural connection,

right, with the products
they're putting into their space.

We're also seeing this

how we're designing the products
and the colors we're using, the palettes.

We're using that all lend well to this.

Another trend that we're seeing
is this trend toward a seamless

and more contemporary
esthetics in larger format products.

And we've got a couple of great examples
when we talk about texture,

because that texture in products
really adds that authentic element.

We have a couple of really great examples
of this too bodge,

which is an extruded porcelain
that looks like most

like a piece of millwork
that you would see.

It's beautiful from all applications.

Begonia is another one
that has this fluted detail

that's designed for wall applications,
which is an extremely hot trend right now

and a growing category of our business.

So those are a couple of great examples
to illustrate

both that handmade esthetic
and bringing texture into this space.

Well, there any particular looks,
for example, woodblock

tile immediately comes to mind,
but there are other types of

looks
that are trending more upward these days.

Yeah, there are.
I can touch on a couple more.

I'll start with the marble looks.

Marble has been extremely popular
for the last several years

and it continues to grow in popularity
as we continue to introduce

more new collections
that bring this, this, this

timeless marble and stone
look into the marketplace with these

really ultra realistic surfaces
and those color and texture

to great examples in our portfolio,
our store, Olina and Parkview,

that provide you this visual.

And then when you get wood

looks, we're seeing a certainly
a warming of color tones.

We're seeing both these refined
oak visuals that might look more like

a French or European style oak, as well
as some of the more rustic visuals.

Our Legacy series, which is new,
it's an eight by 47 inch plank

that has more of a wire, brush, texture
and very earthy colors is a great example

of what we're seeing in the wood talk
right now.

So let's spin the color wheel a little bit
and not just the looks like a wood look.

Well, there are certain hues that are more
enviable than others these days.

Sure. And that's a good question.

And there certainly are.

I mean, you know, we're seeing certain
colors trend very strongly right now.

And we have and we continue
to see this evolution in terms of color.

But what I would say in general is

consumers
today are really pushing the envelope.

They're they're stepping outside
the traditional norms.

They're getting more bold

with what their designs in their homes
and in their indoor spaces.

Where are they using the product?

So it's exciting to see that
that's allowing us to introduce new colors

to the marketplace that even, you know,
three or four or five years ago

you may not have seen in some of
the colors that we are seeing right now.

I mentioned the warming right now.

A lot of the warm
neutrals, extremely popular,

but blues and greens,
if you look at the more saturated colors,

those are the two hottest ones
that we're seeing in the market right now.

I'll mention one new product
that we just introduced that really

I think is the ultimate in terms
of giving you the color

possibilities
and bringing that pop of color to a space.

It's our new radiant series.

So Radiant is an award winning product.

We launched this earlier this year
at the Prosource Convention.

It's a it's an extruded porcelain
that's backlit with LED lighting.

This is an exclusive technology
that we developed in-house.

The LED lighting allows you to completely
change the look and feel of the space.

It's controlled by your phone.

You can sync the lighting to music.

So when you think of bringing color
into your space, you traditionally weave.

We think about the tile,
the glazing that put on the tile

and how that brings in the color.

Well, in this case,

we're giving you a tile that's backlit
and you can choose how you want to color,

depending on the day,
depending on your mood.

That's really exciting to get brings
in that customization.

Also, the technology in your home,
Radiant seems to be an appropriate name

for it for for sure.

And maybe we should just refer to it
as mood at tile,

because I kind of like that,
that you could set that color tone to

just how you're feeling
that particular day.

Or maybe if you want to change
how you feel.

Yeah, exactly.

You may want to you may want to use that
thinning on the moon.

Right.

Funny enough, we have a collection
called Mood that's a beautiful product,

but look like a part management team
and see what we can work out there.

All right.

You know, okay, Now, you and I have talked

a little bit outside of this
about this next question.

So I kind of think this is going to go.
But I like this.

There just seems to be an abundance
now, especially in the tile world,

an abundance of geometric shaped tile.

And just wondering, is there a shape
that is not yet seen

and that leads into perhaps because you've
just recently introduced one?

Well, you did me up for this one.

I did.

We had talked about this one,
and I appreciate the question

because we have a lot of great
geometric shape, packed rhythm.

Even Sterling,

which is one of our
most popular collections

that we've recently entered a shape to.

We've got you covered there.

And a lot of the feedback from three pros
is, Hey, keep these designs coming,

keep these shapes coming.

Our customers are loving them.

And I mentioned a moment ago
that customers are getting more bold

in terms of their designs.

And so all these kind of lend themselves
well to that.

But one new product
that we just introduced

that's getting a lot of attention,
a lot of great press is our Skype series.

So this is a traditional kite design.

It's a fairly whimsical
look in a wide range of color tones

that allow you to really
bring in a pop of color into your space,

but also to create the unique custom
geometric designs

are using one of the colors
or mixing multiple colors.

So I think as your trade grows,
see that product

hit the pro store
showrooms around the country.

It's going to be a big hit for us in 2024.

Feel free, as I always say,
to just set out in my bathroom

know,
and we'll just put it up on the wall.

Talbots, I think you may have
100 bathrooms in your house.

That's entirely possible.

Let's now talk about shape.

Let's talk about size.

How is the range of tile size
from just the small mosaics to the large

or even long format tile?

How has that affected about how you go
about creating new products?

When we look at our product line today,
you know, there are different ways

we look at it.

And in some cases
we're introducing a wall tile collection

and it might be, you know, one size
and four or five different colors.

And it's a very specific
look in large part.

A lot of our collections today when we're
introducing them are comprehensive.

We're going to provide everything
you possibly need to complete a project.

We're seeing a lot of consumers
really appreciate

the more minimalistic Scandinavian
or contemporary style of design,

and in order to accomplish that,
we need a product line

that has all the different shapes
and sizes and multiple formats

to allow that customer
to go into a primary bathroom

and to have a small mosaic
that can work on a shower, pan.

And also the large format
in that same color

and this that works on the floor
and then a wall tile

that other matches that are partnered
with that that's designed for that.

So we've got a number of collections
now that we've introduced and we continue

to do that, continue to keep an eye
on what consumers are asking for.

They're responding to it in that way.

It's important for us and that's something
I think we do a great job at.

I give a lot of credit
to our product management team

of making sure
that when we develop a new product,

if it's a flagship line
for us, that again,

we're giving you all a piece and parts
that you need to complete a project.

And as you know, Kevin,
you need a lot of shapes and sizes,

a format to successfully execute
and install, and we deliver that.

I'll touch on a great example of that.

It's our new enhanced

collection of products, so enhances
a premium portfolio of products

that we've introduced and developed
over the last several months or last year

really,
And it allows us ultimate flexibility.

You can pick your size, you can pick
your finish, you can even develop

your own mosaic
picking from within a range of options.

So when we talk about size options
and infinite,

we have many different paths
that we can take here

to help you serve your customers.

Let's look a little bit to Mother Nature
here, our environment.

There have been some great efforts made
recently to make tile more sustainable.

What's The drive behind those efforts
and maybe what's the next step

in that initiative?

Let's talk about this.

You know, first of all,
what makes tile sustainable?

First of all, when you look at it,

you've got to look at the life
span of the product itself.

And the lifespan of tile is
is as long as any other for covering

material and longer than the other product
that you're going to see in terms cross,

you're talking about an average lifespan
of 50 to 75 years.

If you want tile to be a more permanent
option, certainly have that

versus a typical flooring product
going to be replaced every 5 to 10 years.

So somewhere in that range, right,
Because it wears through it.

Whereas now the thing to think about
is breathing natural materials.

When we make when we make our products
so that clay, there's tremendous

natural reserves of clay
and a long, long a bank

materials to use,
they're most of the raw materials

that we use to make our products
are sourced within a fairly short

range of our factories,
about 500 miles typically.

So we're not shipping, you know,
we may be shipping product from one

from our factories into our U.S.

distribution centers.

We have 82 locations across the country
right to service our customers.

But ultimately from that
first manufacturing, we're very thoughtful

where we get those raw materials.

The other

great thing about tile
is it never loses its recyclability.

I can pull an old tile floor.

We can it can be recycled,
it can be turned into something else,

which is certainly a great thing.

I think part two of that is
is making sure that in the sourcing

of raw materials
that it's transparent and adaptable.

Our focus on being environmentally
conscious in the manufacturing process,

looking at again
that interview's lifecycle.

So those are certainly a lot
to this question, a lot

you can jump in too,
but those are some of the key points.

You've got ceramic, you've got porcelain,
you've got natural stone.

And in fairness,

natural stone has several branches
that fall underneath that as well.

What are some of the benefits
of each one of those?

And have you seen a usage swing in one
direction or another with any of those?

Let's with the wonderful thing is in both
ceramic and porcelain, we can accomplish

designing and developing a very high end
esthetic in both construction platforms.

There are some cost advantages of ceramic
and there are some performance advantages

to porcelain we'll get into.

But purely from an esthetic standpoint,
with digital printing today,

the way tile is made,

we can accomplish a very high end
look on both on both platforms.

Ceramic is very durable

and economical and that's a great value.

So when you look at project
and you're saying, Hey, I've got a

I've got a very specific budget,
I'm trying to stay with them,

a lot of times we'll see
ceramic used on, say, a builder back home.

Those are certainly, you.

You've got a budget to work with
and ceramic

allows you to stay within that budget.

Oftentimes when you look into porcelain,
that's it really allows you

to expand the applications
where the product can be installed.

Porcelain is essentially a much finer
grade denser ceramic.

And so porcelain,
most portions can be used outside.

And that's going to allow me to go into
have that seamless indoor outdoor

living component, which is extremely,
extremely popular right now

in interior design, both residentially
and commercially porcelain.

Also is going to perform better
in high traffic, high impact situations.

So when we get into commercial
environments, that's where you're going

to be looking to use a porcelain product
for those performance benefits.

Then when you get into natural stone, it,

you know, that's natural stone,
as it has always been extremely popular.

It's one of those
that if it's not going in style

or out of style, there's a there's always
a customer embrace for natural stone.

It's really for that customer
that I would say has more discerning taste

that that that really wants that unique
characteristic of a natural stone.

And the beauty is every natural stone job
that gets installed

is going to look different
from one to the next.

Today, natural stone is still used
as the basis for design.

When we're developing a new porcelain
series, we're looking to natural stone

for inspiration and developing
and fine tuning that that marble or stone

look, whatever it may be, capturing
what what nature to really do it.

I think those are some of the differences
or benefits of the agent.

To me, it's
not one is better than the other.

It's really about the application

and about the preference
and in some cases the design for some

we can get much larger pieces,
then we can ceramic or natural stone.

When you talk about in panel slab,
you may have some design limitations

with certain products and that's
where one may win over the other,

depending on what you're going for
your design.

We're talking about tile being versatile.

Let's come up off the floor
and go to the wall.

So how is wall tile development
perhaps affected

for tile department or even vice versa?

Has there been an impact
one direction or the other?

When we look at the development
of of a wall collection

or a floor tile collection,
as I mentioned earlier, we're a lot of

we're developing a collection with that
in mind that you need to complete package.

You need a complete solution
for the space that you're working with.

And we want to have
all the pieces in part,

but there are times
where we introduce a floor tile

and it's it's a singular style, right?

It may be one size.

We may have a bulldozer

or a mosaic to go with,
but we may not have a wall tile option.

And we'll go back and add that later on.

And Enter is a family owned company.

We really stay close to the market,
to our customers.

I think that's one of our competitive
advantages is really being in tune

with what the market asking for.

Our product development team
is constantly coming up with new aspects.

We launch new products
every single month of the year,

more new products
and faster product launches

and anyone else in the industry
the real competitive end for us.

So with that in mind,
if we're getting demand from our pros

or a partner saying, Hey, we need that
wall tile option within a period,

we're going to develop,
that example is our passion series.

So passion is one of our most popular
Walton collections.

We start out with a three by a volatile

that comes in a variety of great colors,
ranging

from warm to to greens to blues,
even even a rose colored tile.

And we got a lot of requests for a four
tile option in that in that thing.

Look,
we developed a nine by nine Matte color

matte finish floor
rated version of our passion.

So that that again was driven
by our customers

saying this is what we need
is what we're looking for.

Can you develop it? And we did.

And that's been extremely popular addition
for us.

I'd love to be the person in the room
that just gets to name your tile

because there's so many mood,
radiant passion.

We've got some great names there.

I just want that absolute.

Well, I think I think, you know,

we're having a great year with press
or if we're growing a lot.

So maybe, maybe I'll be your answer
at the end of the year.

We'll invite you to Los Angeles,
to our corporate office.

And, well, know, maybe maybe

the Kevin Devine collection has that.

Wow. Wow.

Now, see, now I've it when I'm when I'm in
NSR tile collection, I have made it.

Whether whether or not anybody buys
it will be a separate question.

So let's head out the door.

But how is expansion of outdoor living?

What's that done for tile as a whole?

It's been big and really over the last,
you know, starting

from the COVID year to now, the way
customers living in their home

and designing spaces
has has really changed

in our in some cases,
it's accelerated the pace of change out.

And now there's a whole connectivity
from indoor and outdoor.

And I would say maybe before COVID,
it was more of a wish list

that, hey, would be nice
to have our our, our home

seamlessly transition
from indoor outdoors.

And that continuity
today has become more of an expectation.

If you're building a custom home,
there's a lot of thought put into that

and you're seeing a lot and that's why
we're seeing a lot of the press, our pro

sort partners, jump into the outdoor
category in a much bigger way.

You can work with your clients
on both the indoor and outdoor

portion of their home to help them
achieve their design objectives.

So we are developing

products on a continual basis

with the the indoor outdoor living in mind

so that they can perform
in both applications

and in some cases we have products
that have a different finish for outdoors.

We have products with an AR 11 finish,

which is rated for four wet areas

and then we have a smooth, smoother
finish that you'd use on the interior.

So it's going to give you that same look,
that same color, that same format.

But as soon as you exit

the door to your house, you that grip
your surface texture as a safety feature.

So that was developed with
with this scenario in mind.

The other benefit
we have in outdoor product become a huge

and growing part of our business.

So we have a dedicated
natural product manager

and we have a whole portfolio
of outdoor products and I think

our outdoor catalog is up to 80 pages
now of everything that you would need

from indoor and outdoor tile to porcelain
patio pavers, natural stone patio pavers,

full tile
and even fireplace facade material.

Our interior facade material for a
could be a barbecue grill island.

So I think it you know, the best practice
out here at any pro store

partner is as you're working
with your clients we are times and I'm

guilty of it right we get fixated on
the interior the space is an asset.

Customer Hey, let's walk outside.

I think the way you positioned it is
perfectly what's going on in that space.

How are you going to use it?
How do you want to live in it?

And let me help you with that, too.

Let me help you specify the products

and maybe you would love to support it
on that and partner with you there.

That's great.

I like how you mentioned
a lot of the different places

where you can find outdoor travel.

When we talk about outdoor
living with you,

everyone realizes
all the different places it could be.

We're not just talking a patio,
we're talking

a fireplace,
we're talking a pool and outdoor shower.

There's a multitude of different places.

Absolutely.

And I think your trade pros,
they have the ability

and you have great presenter Catherine
in both areas of the home,

but also our preferred account managers
have the ability to, I think, coordinate

a more cohesive, more thoughtful design
because you offer everything.

If someone's working with a outdoor

landscape design built firm,
they're only concerned on the exterior.

They're not they don't have the luxury
of seeing the indoor space like you do.

And so I think that gives you

a real competitive advantage
in our opportunity for us.

So why is Tile so fricking versatile?

Or as we'd like to say, versatile?

You know, if you if you're looking for the
the ultimate in durability,

if you want an extremely high
performing floor, that's scratch

resistant, water resistant or waterproof
fade resistant,

able to be used indoors or outdoors like
we just talked about, really whatever life

throws at it, day to day tile should be
at the very top of your list

and it is truly the best performing floor.

And when we talk about versatility,
not only is it indoor outdoors,

but do you want heat underneath here
for Right.

I live in
I live in the great city of Indianapolis

and it's a little cold here in the winter
time.

So add add heat underneath your floor and

it brings a comfort into

any space in any climate,
which is extremely nice,

you know, and all of that.

What what I love about tile and what makes
what I'm so passionate about

is whenever I see these new products
that we're developing and launching

is it gives you the ultimate in terms

of design flexibility we can create,

I think, the most beautiful,
luxurious spaces

that allow you and your customers to put
their own personal touch on it there.

There's not another floor covering or wall
covering prompt on the market

that has a flexibility in terms of design,
the versatility that tile does

when you can help

your customer create a space
that is truly unique to to their taste

and their interest and makes their home
a special place to be.

I think all of that is what makes Tile
so versatile or so versatile.

As you said,
that's certainly an opportunity for us.

Great insight, certainly really appreciate
and obviously appreciate

your time, Randall,
for joining us on the process podcast.

Absolutely. Kevin, thank you.

Thank you for joining us on the Pro Sauce
Podcast.

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