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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016. Sonia is now the founder of EverBlume, a digital tool that offers a unique approach to alcohol recovery support.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Her online platform EverBlume launched in February 2023, and was featured in Recovery Today Magazine and deemed an ‘essential sobriety resource’ by the FemTech Insider.
The company champions self-improvement and mindful sobriety, with support groups designed by and for women struggling with alcohol.
So how can EverBlume help you meet your sober community? By offering deeply personalized support. Members get matched based on their profiles and life experiences, and take part in small group sessions (max. 16 people). In your support group, you will meet like-minded women, discuss your experiences, and gain confidence, knowing you can rely on your peers in times of need.
Whether you identify as a binge drinker, someone who developed a habit during the Covid-19 pandemic, a high-functioning alcoholic, or an anxious person using alcohol to self-soothe… There is a support group for you!
Current EverBlume members have praised the company’s unique approach to alcohol detox. “No one is judging me for not being sure I want to be sober for the rest of my life” ; “I felt so heard and understood and today I woke up feeling empowered to make the change in my life”.
Feeling inspired? Learn more about the EverBlume sobriety community at joineverblume.com, or simply listen to Sisters In Sobriety.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia:
[00:00:56] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and you're listening to Sisters in Sobriety. [00:01:00] Thanks for being here. I'm Sonia and I'm with my sister in sobriety, actually my sister in law, Kathleen. Kathleen, how are you doing today?
[00:01:06] Sonia:
[00:01:06] Kathleen: Well, I am on the mend. I have been not well for a couple of weeks. Um, but I am, I am getting better. I am getting better. How are you doing?
[00:01:19] Sonia: I'm good. I'm babysitting my niece this weekend and I am so excited just to like mess things up.
[00:01:29] Kathleen: Oh great, I'm so not excited
[00:01:34] Sonia: It's going to be amazing. You're going to come home. She's going to be dirty and have been eating like Cheetos all
[00:01:40] Sonia: weekend. So
[00:01:41] Kathleen: Do we need to do that? How about one? No, really?
[00:01:45] Sonia: it's the whole point of having
[00:01:47] Sonia: an aunt.
[00:01:48] Kathleen: makes it so much harder on me when I come home
[00:01:51]
[00:01:51] Kathleen: It's one night.
[00:01:53] Sonia: It's one night. I know,
[00:01:54] Kathleen: know, it's true
[00:01:55] Sonia: Is she excited? Does she know?
[00:01:57] Kathleen: She does know. And yeah, she's [00:02:00] excited. And I mean, I think she knows there'll be like a Starbucks visit.
[00:02:05] Kathleen: There's going to be pizza. I'm sure or yeah, she's excited.
[00:02:10] Sonia: I went to Starbucks the other day, and they had a shipment of smashed cake pops, and they gave me some.
[00:02:17] Kathleen: Wow, that's amazing.
[00:02:19] Sonia: I don't think I've ever had a cake pop. I always get her one, but they gave me these smashed cake pops. I was like, that's
[00:02:24] Kathleen: They're good. They're good. But you know, sugar is not happening for me right now. So,
[00:02:31] Sonia: We should talk about that another time that you are off sugar.
[00:02:35] Kathleen: Yeah, I am day nine today of no sugar and it's been hard, but necessary. And yeah, we'll talk about that another day for sure because lots of, you know, lots of lessons I would say from the no sugar journey that I have started.
[00:02:55] Sonia: Yeah. Interesting time to start it in the summer. And so that brings us to what [00:03:00] we're going to talk about today, which is vacations and getaways during the summer. And. For a lot of people, this time of year is exciting and you're anticipating the time off, but for those of us in recovery, it can bring a unique set of challenges.
[00:03:15] Sonia: So how do we navigate vacationing while maintaining our sobriety? How do we handle social situations where alcohol might be present? And most importantly, how do we ensure that our time away is enjoyable and supportive of our journey?
[00:03:31] Kathleen: In today's episode, we'll be diving into all of these questions and more. We'll share tips and strategies for staying sober while on vacation, discuss the importance of self care and planning, and we're going to share our own experiences and insights.
[00:03:43] Sonia: Whether you're planning a trip to the beach, a visit to family, or a solo retreat, this episode is packed with practical advice and some stories to help you make the most of your time away while staying true to your recovery. So, grab a cup of tea, get comfortable, and let's explore ways we can embrace [00:04:00] the joys of vacationing while continuing to thrive in our sobriety.
[00:04:05] Kathleen: Okay, Sonia, let's start and talk about why do you think it's harder or is it to stay sober on vacations than it is in normal life?
[00:04:15] Sonia: Yeah, for me, there are a lot of unexpected triggers on vacation, so I don't always anticipate it being harder than normal life. Like, you go into a vacation thinking It's going to be fun. There's not going to be any stress. Why would I feel like drinking? But, sometimes on vacation we spend an unusual amount of time with our family, which for some people can be stressful.
[00:04:36] Sonia: Just the travel alone can cause some anxiety. So I there's just a lot of things that you don't anticipate, especially when you're first getting sober. Why do you think it's harder?
[00:04:49] Kathleen: Well, I think there's, those reasons and more. I think you're out of routine. So it, can be discombobulating like, oh, well, I'm not in my routine. I don't do the same thing in the morning or [00:05:00] night and it can, Make it harder. And then also, I really think there's that feeling of you're going on vacation.
[00:05:07] Kathleen: So you might be like, well, I'm on vacation. Who cares? oh, it's just vacation and I'll get back to it when I come back. Or, there's just that feeling of being on vacation. And I think that can make it harder. What do you think that can mean for our listeners?
[00:05:23] Sonia: I think it means that they need to do some planning before vacation. And if you know your triggers, great, prepare for them. But we also have to prepare for the unexpected challenges, whatever that means. So what have you struggled with in terms of staying sober on vacation?
[00:05:41] Kathleen: Well, for me, I definitely get into the, like, don't worry about it, it's vacation mindset. And so, for me, I have a hard time maintaining healthy habits when I'm on vacation. It depends what kind of vacation I'm going on, let me just say that, but, and we'll talk about that in a little bit. But yeah, I definitely get in [00:06:00] that, Oh, well, it's vacation and so I'm going to kind of throw out everything that I've been doing, and just, you know, it's vacation, so I'm vacation Kathleen and vacation Kathleen maybe isn't the healthiest Kathleen.
[00:06:13] Kathleen: So, definitely, I have struggled with that. What about you?
[00:06:19] Sonia: Yeah, so I, I have been traveling a lot by myself. So I guess you can call it vacationing by myself. And so I haven't gone away with a significant other in a few years. And I'm a little nervous about that. So I'm worried about having FOMO if my partner has a drink. And for me, that thought always creeps in like, It's vacation.
[00:06:41] Sonia: What if I just had one? would it even count? nobody would know. I'm not even in the country. so I think that's something that I'm nervous about going forward.
[00:06:52] Kathleen: Yeah, for sure. And we've talked a lot about the importance of planning for you a few different times and different episodes.
[00:06:59] Sonia: Yeah, we [00:07:00] have, but yeah, that came after a few instances of not planning and like really struggling while I was on vacation.
[00:07:08] Kathleen: So can you talk about a time that you failed to plan?
[00:07:12] Sonia: Yes, and I had a professor in dental school that used to say, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
[00:07:19] Kathleen: Nice.
[00:07:21] Sonia:
[00:07:24] Sonia: I have vacation to Italy booked when I got sober. So I booked it before I got sober and I was so excited. It was a dream my whole life to go to Italy on this like, sophisticated, romantic holiday and I sip wine at the best restaurants and go to vineyards. And then I was eight weeks over by the time I went and getting ready for the trip, I was nervous, but I didn't make any changes to the itinerary except like not, you know, obviously wasn't going like wine tasting.
[00:07:58] Sonia: So it was the same [00:08:00] vacation, just the Minus the alcohol. And I think in retrospect, that was a bit of a mistake. So I remember it just starting at the airport and going to the same lounge at the Philly airport that I always go to and I would drink at. And, and so I remember feeling that pang, that first thing when I was there and then there's like the flight itself and I would do some hard drinking, especially on long flights. And, and I would be drunk by the time I got to like my destination. So I feel like by the time I landed, my nerves were a little frayed, but I didn't know why. And so now that I look back, it was the whole like lounge flight experience and not planning to not drink.
[00:08:44] Sonia: That was my only activity during those hours. And so. The vacation went on like that, where I would go to nice dinners and they didn't have any non alcoholic options except for water. And so I felt really left out. And I specifically remember this [00:09:00] one night. moment where I was walking through these tiny streets and it was just like wine bars and restaurants and everyone's sitting outside drinking Aperol spritzes and red wine and I remember getting tears in my eyes like I was so uncomfortable and I had so many feelings.
[00:09:21] Sonia: I was like, why me? Why can't I drink normally? How am I ever gonna enjoy anything again? and actually what's funny is, I don't know if you know, but I texted my brother and I was like, this sucks. this is horrible. And he was like, Check out AA meetings. There are no AA meetings in Italy,
[00:09:39] Sonia: yeah, and we'll talk about cultural drinking after, but and I remember texting him back I'm like, there's no AA meetings here, and I wasn't even going to AA at the time, but It would have been nice to catch an AA meeting. But yeah, I think the issue is I was just thinking in absolutes, which is how I get when I'm feeling sorry for myself about my drinking.
[00:09:59] Sonia: Um, [00:10:00] and there were parts of the trip that were amazing. one of the greatest moments of my life was seeing the sunrise over Ponte Vecchio, which it would have been impossible if I was drinking. I don't remember seeing a sunrise, not on drugs or very drunk ever, unless I had like stayed up.
[00:10:15] Sonia: Um. So yeah, I feel like other small things, I would never have tried gelato because I used to save all my calories for alcohol, so I never had a dessert. And so, yeah, this trip really felt like a lot of trial and error and so I figured out like what things are better sober and what things I need to avoid or be prepared for.
[00:10:36] Kathleen: well, so how do you prepare for potential triggers if you're on vacation? Yeah,
[00:10:47] Sonia: triggers. and so I don't think everyone has to go through that trip to Italy like I did. We can plan for those before they happen.
[00:10:54] Kathleen: so what about the triggers that you can't predict, the ones that are completely [00:11:00] unexpected? What do you do with those?
[00:11:01] Sonia: Yeah, like you can't predict that you're going to walk down a street with 20 bars and everyone's drinking in the middle of the day. And so, for me, now, and I didn't do it during that trip to Italy, but I just double down and play the tape forward. And one thing I've started doing, and I think it took a while, I don't know if you're like this, isI don't look down on people that are drinking just to make myself feel better.
[00:11:25] Sonia: I don't think it's a sustainable practice. I understand the tendency being like, well, they're all alcoholics or they're all going to feel terrible tomorrow. but I can say I am an alcoholic and I will feel terrible tomorrow if I drank. And so I really try. to stick with looking at myself and not judging other people.
[00:11:46] Sonia: There are people that can have an Aperol spritz one and have a lovely evening. I'm just not one of those people. And so I have to accept that. what are some of the biggest fears people have about [00:12:00] staying sober on vacation?
[00:12:02] Kathleen: Well, I think the biggest one is the fear of missing out and being sort of othered, especially if you're going on a vacation with a bunch of people who drink, that fear of missing out, I think, lack of support, your example of trying to look up AA meetings in Italy and not having.
[00:12:19] Kathleen: Any to go to, I think that lack of support feeling like you're away from home. And so where do you go to for support? And then maybe those unexpected, unexpected triggers, like, yes, you can plan for the ones, but there's always going to be unexpected ones and those can kind of, that can be, that can be a little off putting, right?
[00:12:40] Kathleen: Like, oh, well, there's going to be triggers and I just don't know what they are, am I going to be able to manage through them? So I think those are some of the biggest. fears about staying sober on vacation. What, what do you think some of the signs are that you might be struggling with your sobriety on vacation?
[00:12:56] Sonia: Yes. I think it's really important, for me, it took [00:13:00] a while to figure it out. And so I think what happens is that my anxiety level, just slowly ratchets up and I don't notice it at first. And what I do think is it starts with me being increasingly aware of drinking around me. So I'll notice that I am looking at the waiter, bringing a bottle of wine and pouring a glass of wine for somebody.
[00:13:22] Sonia: Or yeah, I'm looking at somebody like sipping a Negroni while they're, at a bar. And so it's when I start for me, that's when I realized I'm starting to kind of like slip a bit when I start looking at the alcohol and feeling like, just like a curious and envious, and then before I know it, I'm like crying on a street and like trying to deep breathe and it's a little late, but yeah.
[00:13:45] Sonia: So I think being able to find that. Point wherefor me I'm starting to feel sorry for myself when I see other people drink. So yeah, that's that's my sign that I'm struggling a bit.
[00:13:57] Kathleen: Okay. So let's run through some vacation [00:14:00] triggers. What are some tips for navigating airports and flights sober?
[00:14:06] Sonia: Oh My god, this is big because it's like how you start your vacation and so I have a whole different pre flight and flight plan, and so, it's just as many things as I, I need or want to do. Because before it was like, maybe I'd throw a book in my, my bag, but I would go to the lounge, and I would drink, and I would get on the flight, and I would drink, and so now I have, Tons of books on my iPad.
[00:14:28] Sonia: Tons of magazines. I download music. I download podcasts. I usually take a craft project like knitting. check your airline's policy on knitting needles, but I haven't had a problem yet. but I think, yeah, I would plan. I actually really enjoy going to the airport now. I really do.
[00:14:46] Sonia: I really like, getting a coffee or a tea. I really like sitting with my book and like getting calm. I try to still make it like part of the vacation, even though I'm not drinking. but another thing that happens are [00:15:00] social situations on vacation. How do you handle social situations where alcohol is present?
[00:15:05] Kathleen: Well, obviously the planning ahead. So that's huge. And also trying to plan activities where drinking doesn't have to be involved. If you can, if you're able to have control over that, I think having an exit strategy is really important and also practicing mindfulness. So go back to one of our episodes on mindfulness, but like really being aware.
[00:15:26] Kathleen: Okay. What is the feeling inside my body right now? What is the emotion that's present? I also think that, if we're thinking about meals, where social situations and alcohol may be present, don't go hungry. this is a tip for myself that I use, but if I know I'm going out, and there's going to be a ton of people drinking, and maybe the main meal won't be for a while, I make sure I eat something before, so I'm not grappling with hunger and also then not drinking. How do you handle vacation traditions that [00:16:00] used to involve drinking?
[00:16:01] Sonia: Yeah, I think it depends on the tradition, if it can be adapted, to be alcohol free. for example, I used to go away every year on my anniversary and we always celebrated with champagne and we switched it up to like dessert and like a decaf after dinner. And it felt, I felt really good about it.
[00:16:18] Sonia: It wasn't as glamorous, but it was still really great and it still had the same, celebratory kind of feeling for me. and then there are others that are, are not as easily adapted, which is like,let's do our shot by the pool, let's do some tequila shots.
[00:16:32] Sonia: And so I think that's one you either have to avoid or suggest something different. I won't do a water shot if people are doing shots. I just like do not participate. And so
[00:16:44] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:16:45] Sonia: You have to make your own decision about things like that. But yeah, and then there obviously is like an element of FOMO.
[00:16:52] Sonia: are there some strategies to deal with FOMO if you're missing out while on vacation?
[00:16:58] Kathleen: Yeah, I think it's a [00:17:00] mindset also. it's like, okay, you have the fear of missing out, but then how can you transform that into the joy of missing out? So what are the things that you wouldn't want? from drinking, maybe you wouldn't want to feel like crap the next day. Maybe you Wouldn't want to be in a place where you don't feel like you have control over what you're doing you always say play the tape forward.
[00:17:21] Kathleen: So play the tape forward and what would it feel like to Let's say break your sobriety. and Or not. And so transforming that into Jomo and the joy of missing out and so almost being well, instead of the fear of missing out being like, I'm actually glad that I don't need to do that. I'm glad that I'm not participating in that.
[00:17:44] Kathleen: I think also really planning alternative things that you think would be fun. So. If there's something to look forward to on vacation that doesn't involve drinking again This is all harder if you're going with a group of people if you're with one or two people who are also sober [00:18:00] or Who know you're sober or don't drink that much then that's a different story But planning alternative things and for your vacation that you have to look forward to Mm
[00:18:11] Sonia: I think I also feel like there's so much pressure to relax when we're on vacation It's like it's gonna be so relaxing. Let's relax and so
[00:18:20] Kathleen: hmm
[00:18:21] Sonia: For me, the only way I would relax was by drinking, right? that was my go to for relaxation, vacations, after work, everything. So what are some other ways you can unwind and relax without alcohol while you're on vacation?
[00:18:36] Kathleen: So many like sleep, that is what I would be doing with my vacation. These days is sleeping, but sleeping, reading, chilling out, going for walks. Some people, want to exercise, try new things like these are all relaxing because, or they can be relaxing because you're not at work. You're on vacation and really looking at, your vacation as a time to [00:19:00] regenerate yourself.
[00:19:01] Kathleen: Also, it's not. I am never the type of person who can just lay on a beach for a week. I have to do things, some things at least, but for me, it's still it's getting sleep. It's doing things that fill you up and, and meaning fill your soul up. How do you deal with cultural differences around alcohol consumption while traveling?
[00:19:25] Kathleen: I mean, you gave Italy as a good
[00:19:26] Kathleen: example.
[00:19:28] Sonia: Yeah, yeah, for sure. There's cultural differences. I'm curious what you think too, because you've traveled a lot. But yeah, Italy is a big one. I, there was another Italy vacation where I was in Positano and I was on a boat and the boat captain was like, here's a mimosa. And I was like, oh, I don't drink.
[00:19:45] Sonia: And he just repeated. It's a mimosa. It doesn't count. It's not really alcohol. and Iwas like, no, no, thank you. but you have to be okay that when you're traveling in some cultures, it's going to be a little confusing to them when you don't drink, when they give you [00:20:00] like a free thing of alcohol and you don't take it, what other cultures have you noticed
[00:20:05] Kathleen: Well, okay, so I was thinking about this while preparing for this episode and I actually haven't gone to Europe sober
[00:20:12] Kathleen: I've obviously been to Europe a lot, but I have not been sober So I think yeah that I can imagine that would be really really difficult. I would say most of my, I'm making air quotes, vacations, like, you know, I've been to Egypt four times.
[00:20:30] Kathleen: my last, like, huge trip on my own was I went to an ashram. So there's, no caffeine or alcohol in the ashram.
[00:20:38] Sonia: Turkey.
[00:20:39] Kathleen: Yeah, I went to Turkey with your brother and no, we didn't, even attempt to drink there.
[00:20:46] Kathleen: I mean, I think just because I was with someone who was sober, I, it just didn't even occur to me to drink. I'm trying to think back, most of my recent vacations have been. [00:21:00] Easier for me to navigate because there hasn't been a ton of drinking around me so i'm trying to think I went on one all inclusive which god those are like minefields, but But again, I was with your brother so we didn't drink and We really doubled down on the food not the alcohol, We went to hawaii that was easier because you were sober.
[00:21:27] Kathleen: I wasn't drinking. Your brother was none of us drank. Actually that whole trip, there was no one that was drinking. So that was easier. It was very health and wellness based. Don't you feel like we went to, we were in the pool, we were exercising. It was very health and wellness based. so yeah, I, I think Europe is like, now that I'm thinking of it, your examples of Italy.
[00:21:50] Kathleen: That would be difficult, it would be very difficult for, for Europe, but all the places that I would want a vacation I think I really go towards the health and [00:22:00] wellness vacation. So, yeah, it may be it's easier because of the vacations I choose.
[00:22:06] Sonia: Okay. So speaking of that, we've talked about the hard parts of me vacationing sober, but I really want to hear a time when you think that vacationing sober was better than if you had been drinking.
[00:22:19] Kathleen: I definitely had my share of vacations where I was not sober, and I didn't really. I remember them, I wouldn't say clearly, but I remember having a lot of fun on those vacations, but I also remember feeling like crap. So I, I went to the Turks and Caicos once with a friend of mine and I was heavily drinking.
[00:22:47] Kathleen: There were a ton of celebrities like at the hotel we were at and there just was so much drinking and I wasted my days like here I was in this incredible hotel in the Turks and Caicos and I [00:23:00] would have to just sleep the day away or was sick, only to kind of get up in the afternoon and then start drinking and partying.
[00:23:09] Kathleen: Not really how I would want to spend my vacations now. It's been a while in honesty, since I've taken a vacation, like a vacation where I've gone somewhere. But I remember when we went to Hawaii, we were all not like, none of us were drinking. And I remember waking up, feeling rested and doing some awesome things.
[00:23:30] Kathleen: Like there were lots of bad things going on with my relationship during that trip, but
[00:23:34] Sonia: yes.
[00:23:35] Sonia: Girl, yes.
[00:23:37] Kathleen: Hawaii was not a good trip for my marriage, but it was a really, really good trip in terms of we had so much fun. We did all these activities planned and I don't feel like I wasted time. I feel like we went to bed early, but we woke up early.
[00:23:53] Kathleen: I remember going outside and doing yoga by the beach. I just would way rather that. And In terms of other [00:24:00] local vacations where I haven't had to get on a plane again, I would more go to a cottage for example, and I love getting up in the morning and having a tea on the dock and going for a swim.
[00:24:12] Kathleen: And I just couldn't do that if I was waking up. All groggy and hungover.
[00:24:17]
[00:24:19] Sonia: Yeah. So how do you plan a vacation with sobriety in mind? And I know you're going to talk about all inclusives because we've talked about this recently. So I'm curious about, yeah, like all inclusives or cruises. So how, yeah. How do you plan a vacation when you're thinking about sobriety?
[00:24:38] Kathleen: I know it's funny because we did talk about Like should we go to an all inclusive or something? Right?
[00:24:44] Sonia: Yeah. Or like your boyfriend wanted to go to an all inclusive. Yeah.
[00:24:48] Kathleen: Yeah, and you and I have sort of talked about it too Like could we like is that something that we could do? So I am not a fan of all inclusives But I think it's like [00:25:00] beyond the drinking. I just I prefer to have more of an adventure than be on an all inclusive.
[00:25:05] Kathleen: So yeah, I think that the kind of traveling I do lends itself more to sobriety and the kind of traveling I do is I like to explore the places I'm in. Sure. I like to relax, but, my dream vacation would be going to Bali and, Renting like a house and having, a chef or something there, like making all these amazing fresh fruit mocktails and food.
[00:25:31] Kathleen: I would way rather do that than go to an all inclusive because I just think all inclusives, it's so about. Extra and gluttony almost like all of this all you can drink all you can eat Like is that really what you want to do for your body? I actually recently Heard of a place in saint lucia. It is not cheap.
[00:25:54] Kathleen: Let me tell you it is not cheap And I think it's called body holiday and a friend of [00:26:00] mine went and then another friend I just saw on Instagram went and it's all about the body. So it's healthy food, all these different exercises, it's that kind of all inclusive. And I think that's more of the type of all inclusive that is more up my alley.
[00:26:16] Kathleen: So part of it is, yes, I think my personality has just never been an all inclusive type of girly. But I also think it's. It's better to, as a sober person, be able to plan. And who wants to sit around with hundreds of other people getting sloshed in the pool? Not me.
[00:26:37] Sonia: No, I get it. I think the issue comes up whenthat's what your family wants to do, or that's what your friends want to do, what do you do? Yeah.
[00:26:46] Kathleen: Yeah. And I, so I think if that's what your friends want to do and your family wants to do and you end up going into an all inclusive, my nightmare. You have to plan, right? So what are excursions that you can do without that? What are, [00:27:00] even all inclusives have beautiful fruit juices and things that you can make in that way.
[00:27:04] Kathleen: You can have mocktails, you can get virgin pina coladas, and there are ways that you can participate. But I, I also think if you're going to go to an all inclusive then plan something. That everyone can do that isn't revolving around drinking.
[00:27:22] Sonia: Yeah, that makes sense to me. and yeah, I remember I went to Costa Rica and it was all inclusive,
[00:27:28] Kathleen: Was it really?
[00:27:30] Sonia: yeah, it had a wellness bend though. And I think by all inclusive, it was like every day you could pickone activity like that would be included and all your meals were included.
[00:27:40] Sonia: and Yeah, there are people that were drinking but no one was drinking that heavily
[00:27:47] Kathleen: Yeah, cuz it definitely had that bent to it for sure Those are the sort of vacations I plan as well. I think my last major vacation without you was about five years [00:28:00] ago and I went to the Bahamas and it was funny because I was on an ashram and next to me was this mega resort and I could hear the like pumping of the music, but for me, that's.
[00:28:15] Kathleen: Sure, that is, could be fun for a day, but I really wanted something different.
[00:28:20] Sonia: That was for our 40th our 40th birthdays our birthdays are a few weeks apart and I remember being like She going without her husband on this, uh, I remember being like Something doesn't seem right.
[00:28:33] Kathleen: I know, I
[00:28:33] Kathleen: look back on that now I think back to that, gosh, that's like really a state of affairs, right? I've
[00:28:39] Kathleen: just, because he would have been into the ashram. He was the kind of person that would have been into the ashram.
[00:28:45] Sonia: Yeah I will say this He was not upset that you were gone either
[00:28:50] Kathleen: No!
[00:28:50] Sonia: remember being like what is going on? You were leaving for your 40th birthday. I was like, oh, no, you're gonna miss kathleen's 40th birthday. He's like whatever It was [00:29:00] so weird. I remember
[00:29:01] Kathleen: I know. And then we got separated five months later, so. So I actually, and it's interesting because I, this was a hard episode for me to think about because I haven't been on vacation in a really, really long time. So, because after I got separated, I became a single mom and then the pandemic happened, in quick succession right after that.
[00:29:22] Kathleen: And then I went back to school and started my practice. And I was like, wow, I haven't, I've actually been on a vacation in a really, really, really long time,
[00:29:32] Sonia: yeah, like a proper vacation.
[00:29:33] Sonia: you guys came to New York
[00:29:35] Kathleen: Yeah, yeah, but you know what I mean like not like a proper
[00:29:39] Sonia: New York is not a, it's not a
[00:29:41] Kathleen: no, no,
[00:29:43] Sonia: Yeah. I don't think it's a vacation. That's actually a good example. It's not a vacation. That's not a relaxing vacation destination.
[00:29:50] Kathleen: it wasn't and also you were going through a really difficult time So I felt it was more I got
[00:29:56] Kathleen: to I was so glad I was there Yeah, yeah It was a mission and I also [00:30:00] felt like I was there for a true purpose Like I felt the universe brought me to you during that time.
[00:30:07] Sonia: my god that fucking guy just got up and left Like that fucking guy. It's like he knew you guys were coming and he was like I think I'm gonna break up with you a couple days before your family comes Yeah
[00:30:27] Kathleen: yeah, I think I'm due for a vacation
[00:30:29] Sonia: Yeah,
[00:30:30] Kathleen: I'm gonna say. Yeah
[00:30:32] Sonia: Speaking of, one of, I think, our favorite things that we've done on our vacations is have mocktail hour, and so, and I, I love mocktails.
[00:30:41] Sonia: What are your favorite non alcoholic beverages for vacation?
[00:30:46] Kathleen: so I am a fan of fresh fruit juices. So when I'm on vacation, I really love to do that. And I also love, just anything fresh, like fresh mojitos, like with the, [00:31:00] obviously, virgin mojitos, with fresh mint. I, recently was, I won't call it a vacation, but I recently went to my, Grad school graduation and my best friend is also sober.
[00:31:14] Kathleen: I'm really lucky to have a best friend who's sober. and we got virgin Moscow mules at this fancy restaurant. We went to, yeah, and it was, they were amazing.
[00:31:26] Sonia: That's awesome.
[00:31:27] Kathleen: They were amazing and like within the copper Cup and everything, and they were so, it was her idea, she knows her way around in Mocktail and they were really good.
[00:31:38] Kathleen: Yeah. What about you? What are your favorite Mm-Hmm?
[00:31:40] Sonia: yeah. So I always try to do a cocktail of the area. So yeah, virgin Mojito, virgin Pina Colada, Necroni, Aperol Spritz. so yeah, I love doing that. So wherever I am, I'm like, what is your normal, go to cocktail? And can you make it virgin? Right? And so, and usually they can now, things have [00:32:00] changed a lot.
[00:32:00] Sonia: I think in the last, you If I've been sober seven years, things have changed a lot in seven years, probably even the last 10. So yeah, I think the other options, which I don't see that often, I don't know if you do I don't see a lot of de alcoholized wine on menus, but I do see a lot of, um, NA beer.
[00:32:18] Sonia: And that can be something you try out. And then I always havea go to drink for the place that isn't going to have any mocktails, which is like club soda with cranberry and lime or like a club soda with a lime. And so, um, and sometimes if it's the middle of the day, I'll just get a diet Coke.
[00:32:33] Sonia: But yeah, you, I think my thing is just still try to have fun with it So yeah, like the Moscow mule thing is so cute. I love
[00:32:40] Kathleen: It was, it was good.
[00:32:41] Sonia: How do you communicate your sobriety or your intention to not drink, to friends that you're vacationing with?
[00:32:48] Kathleen: Well, I think it happens before the vacation and I think it can be part of like the planning. So let's say you're going with friends or family, let that be part of the planning like, oh, I'd like to [00:33:00] do this or this activity, or I'm not going to drink on, you know, just communicate it, I think.
[00:33:05] Kathleen: Hopefully, Friends and family. No, but let's just say you're going on like a destination wedding, right? You're a guest at a destination wedding, there's gonna be drinking I think that it would be good if you can have even one person That you're going on the trip with that knows your intention to stay sober.
[00:33:24] Kathleen: I think that can be really helpful It really does come down to planning and, and having those other activities or drinks or, things that can make the vacation fun for you. So it's not just, Oh, I'm going on vacation and everyone's going to be drinking and it's going to suck for me. So what is your go to response when someone offers you a drink?
[00:33:50] Sonia: I'm always just like, I'm straightforward. I'm like, Oh, I don't drink. but I think you can do simpler ones without that much information. You can say Oh, no, thanks. I'm not drinking today or, no thanks. I'm going [00:34:00] to try something without alcohol. I know those aren't very interesting responses.
[00:34:04] Sonia: but I, I really think you don't. Oh, people, a huge explanation. So I think, yeah, I always just say, I don't drink. So that's my go to So speaking of unexpected triggers, I feel like. It's those self care practices, right? And routines that will help maintain your sobriety with those unexpected triggers.
[00:34:24] Sonia: So what are some self care practices you use when you're
[00:34:28] Kathleen: Uh, I hydrate. Like,
[00:34:30] Kathleen: honestly, if I'm flying anywhere, this is a thing for me. When I'm flying anywhere, I drink so much water. I drink so much water when I'm traveling. It's ridiculous, actually, how much water I drink when I'm traveling. I just think it makes me feel so much better, especially if there's like a time change.
[00:34:49] Kathleen: I also, I am very triggered by, cravings of like food, sugar, that's part of it for me also. And, I actually fast [00:35:00] when I fly. So I do that like just to help reset my body. that's for me something I do, but I also stretch. I have a travel yoga mat. I take it. I've just went, to my graduation,
[00:35:16] Kathleen: And I brought my yoga travel mat because it was really important for me. It just almost gives me like a space. Okay. This travel yoga mat, even though it's just a yoga mat is like, okay, I can meditate on here. This is my time for myself. I still try to keep a bit of a routine in terms of what time I'm waking up.
[00:35:35] Kathleen: Those are the routines that I use. Oh, I bring my journal. So I continue to do that. I will like listen to, a growth and development book. So yeah, I think those are the, the self care practices and routines that you can incorporate. And sometimes you have more time to do that when you're on vacation.
[00:35:53] Kathleen: so what are some ways to make new sober memories when you're traveling? [00:36:00] Mm.
[00:36:00] Sonia: I just kind of like a lean into like the awe, right? Of traveling of the beauty of a different place, like of the architecture ofthe landscape. And so I feel like when you're not focused on drinking or you're not actually drunk, like a whole world opens up to you. So there are moments.
[00:36:19] Sonia: You can appreciate that you weren't able to before. I think like a sunrise or a sunset or a yoga class on the beach. I think there are things that when you're drinking seem just kind of like, I'm not getting up at Sunrise to see, you know, or I could just hang by the pool instead of going to a yoga class on the beach.
[00:36:36] Sonia: So I think really like leaning into the beauty of your destination is a really good way. And those are some of my favorite memories now are my sober. travel memories. I went to Lisbon a couple of months ago and just like getting there and being like, Oh my God, just the architecture and the, andI took myself to a really nice lunch.
[00:36:57] Sonia: And if I had started drinking, which I [00:37:00] normally would have during that you know what, I probably would have ended up like wandering around going shopping. Instead, I like had my camera and I took pictures and I, Walked around and yeah, and so I think I don't know I think really just like lean in
[00:37:14] Kathleen: what are some travel hacks for maintaining your sobriety?
[00:37:18] Sonia: So my hacks, I mean these are more like my life hacks too, are just like about comfort and so even when I'm not on vacation it's like Dealing with the discomfort sometimes of not drinking is is a lot right and you can't sidestep it And so I like to create that comfort around that. So I travel with little things that automatically calm me down, like my journal, my knitting, , a sound machine.
[00:37:42] Sonia: I set all my chargers up, right? And so there's small things that
[00:37:47] Sonia: make you feel like, ah, and they make a huge difference. And so some people travel with exercise bands to keep up their exercise routine. and I travel a lot like between places like right now I'm at my [00:38:00] boyfriend's house for a week and I like the first thing I did was set up all my chargers, right?
[00:38:05] Sonia: it's such a small thing but like I set up my chargers I like have my iPad so I can still do my workouts and so I think that there are so many things that you can do to hack your comfort. What do you think?
[00:38:19] Kathleen: and If at all possible to choose a vacation of a place that you've always wanted to go to and Yeah, I I have a bucket list of places. I'm a huge Well, I haven't been a huge traveler lately, but in my life, I would probably be known as quite a traveler and I have a huge bucket list of places I want to go and see.
[00:38:43] Kathleen: And I think, planning your vacation, but also making it what you want can really help. Just like when you go into it with that mindset of that, you want to choose a place that you've always wanted to go to, it's such a privilege to be able to travel and [00:39:00] vacation.
[00:39:00] Kathleen: It is such a privilege. And so to sort of go, at it with that mindset, can really make a world of difference. So what resonated with you today, Sonia, on our episode?
[00:39:11] Sonia: it's really small, but I'm going to hydrate and fast.
[00:39:15] Sonia: Now, I realized hydrate is a big thing and it actually is part of my comfort thing. I usually drink a lot of sparkling water, so I usually will like get somewhere and try to get like sparkling water, for my room, but I think I need Yeah, I think to make the first day and the flight time like a little easier for me, I think I do need to hydrate and maybe fast and not eat anything gross and get food poisoning on the plane.
[00:39:39] Sonia: And there is really no need to eat on a flight. and maybe I'll take trail mix if I get hungry. But yeah.
[00:39:45] Kathleen: So it was actually nutritionists that taught me this
[00:39:48] Kathleen: about fasting Because it makes the jet lag better. I don't know if there's scientific evidence to support this but I used to live in Hong Kong and I would go [00:40:00] back and forth and like it's a wicked wicked jet lag, right and I just didn't have time to Be jet lagged when I was working so I learned that trick then and And It just, I would just fast and then get back into schedule once I landed.
[00:40:17] Kathleen: and it's always really worked for me. So it's something I try to do. I don't, I don't eat plain food ever.
[00:40:23] Sonia: Wow. Yeah. I love that. I mean, you're really not getting anything. I think it's like highly preserved. Right? Like a
[00:40:30] Kathleen: Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, a lot of salt. And so I just hydrate, hydrate, hydrate tons of water. And yeah, that's, that's, there's your travel hack
[00:40:42] Kathleen: from me,
[00:40:43] Sonia: Okay. So what, speaking of what resonated with you today?
[00:40:51] Kathleen: Well, I need to go on vacation is what resonated. I think that, I think that what resonated with me is just [00:41:00] talking about this really, It really connected me with a part of myself that I haven't felt in a long, long time, which is I am such a traveler. I am such an explorer of the world.
[00:41:11] Kathleen: And I feel like life circumstance has led me to not do that. And I think that's something that I need to change in my life. so that resonated with me actually the most.
[00:41:25] Sonia: Yeah, I feel like your daughter is getting that age where she's so easier to travel with. before I feel like when we traveled with her, her schedule was the center of traveling. was like, she needs a nap, or she needs specific types of food. But I think she's a great, she'd be a great little travel companion.
[00:41:40] Kathleen: I think so too. And I did go away with her recently to go to my graduation. I won't count it as like fully a vacation, but she was amazing and so much fun. And so I think I've always been saying, well, you've known this. I've been saying, I want to go to India when she's 12, to show her some of her heritage [00:42:00] and also cause it's a place I love, but I think I'm going to have to figure out a way to do something sooner than that with
[00:42:07] Sonia: Yeah, road trip.
[00:42:10] Kathleen: Or plane trip.
[00:42:12] Sonia: Or plane trip.
[00:42:14] Kathleen: All right, well thank you so much for listening to Sisters in Sobriety, and we will see you next week.
[00:42:19]