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Taking the Hire Road is a podcast dedicated to providing tips to help manage the driver recruiting process while addressing the ongoing challenges related to the driver shortage and driver retention. Hosted by Jeremy Reymer, Founder and CEO of DriverReach, this bimonthly podcast shines a light on the challenges that carriers are facing and aims to help companies hire quality drivers with greater efficiency.
Episode Transcript
This has been generated by AI and optimized by a human.
Jeremy Reymer [00:00:07]:
Welcome to Taking the Higher Road, a special show dedicated to the trucking industry, primarily around the confluence of recruiting, retention and compliance in the fifth year. As the host of the show, I bring over two decades of industry experience, both on the carrier side as well as the vendor side. Throughout the year, I interview industry experts and thought leaders who bring their insight to the driver life cycle as we discuss the industry's greatest challenges. I always appreciate your feedback, good or bad. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review. I'd also like to thank and highlight the show's valuable sponsors. Their dedication and commitment to the industry and to the show is greatly appreciated. If you're interested in being a sponsor of the show or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehighroad.com now.
Jeremy Reymer [00:00:48]:
This week, I'm excited to have back a very close friend who's also a genuinely wonderful human being. Jason Douglass, VP of Operations for James H. Clark and son Jason. It's been over a year since we last connected on the show, so thanks for joining me again.
Jason Douglass [00:01:03]:
Yeah, thanks, Jeremy. A lot has happened on my end since then. In the year and your end, there's been a lot of things, a lot of changes. All positive, and thanks for having me back.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:11]:
Let's dive into some of that. So you're now the VP of Operations for. I don't know if you call it JHCS or. But that sounds good. What do you call it?
Jason Douglass [00:01:20]:
Well, we're doing kind of a sock rebrand without rebranding, so we just kind of shortened it to jhc, just JHC Trucking without really changing anything. But I worked here for almost 11 years previous before I went to Stokes. The reason why I came back was because new ownership took over. He wanted me to come and kind of control the recruiting and operations process. And it's been a great opportunity for me. And where I left them to where we're back now is awesome. I couldn't be happier. I love Stokes.
Jason Douglass [00:01:50]:
I've never quit a job that I loved before. Until then, we remained friends with those guys. I had unfinished business to do here. The owner told me you've got drivers here that are waiting for you to come back, office employees that only you are fit for to help them move forward.
Jeremy Reymer [00:02:07]:
So that's a change since the last time we met. You were a finalist earlier this year for Recruiter of the Year. You recently graduated from the inaugural Elevate TCA Leadership class, and then you've also been speaking at various events throughout the country. But with all that positivity. I know there's been some challenges. Right. That's just how life works.
Jason Douglass [00:02:26]:
Sure.
Jeremy Reymer [00:02:26]:
I know you've been nursing an injury that's significantly sidelined you from really all the activity that you're known for. So I'm hoping we can get a little real about that. And then just as well as some of the personal challenges you faced and overcome with addiction, we'll get into that. Mental health is super important and we can dive into that also, at least a little bit during the industry health segment, which is sponsored by Project 61. So you ready to get cranking?
Jason Douglass [00:02:49]:
Let's do it.
Jeremy Reymer [00:02:50]:
All right. Well, you're also a member of the trucking industry's only book club, at least that I know of. It's a group I started in January 2025. We've got about 80 participants so far. So towards the the end of today's conversation, I'll ask you for a book recommendation. So just kind of keep that in mind. But in the meantime, let's start with you. So you've done a great job of being connected, being dialed into the industry, very active on LinkedIn, great network.
Jeremy Reymer [00:03:17]:
And instead of asking you how you got into trucking, like, I know you answered that, I think in our first interview, I'd like to get a little bit more personal. So you're a husband, I met your wife. You're a father, you've got a number of kids. Right. So let's talk about you and your family. How many children do you have and.
Jason Douglass [00:03:32]:
How old are they, family wise? I married my high school sweetheart. We've been married for 15 years. We've been together for 20. We have four kids. So I have six year old twins, a boy and a girl. My, my wife wouldn't go for Luke and Leia. I tried. And then I have a 9 year old and a 12 year old.
Jason Douglass [00:03:48]:
So between swimming, soccer, one of my kids is kind of a geek, which it's funny how that comes around, right? We call him a geek when we're younger and then when we're an adult and we watch their brain work and figure this stuff out, it's amazing. I'm watching him program 3D printer stuff and kids might call that a geek or a nerd, and I'm just like, do it again. You know, and he's obsessed with, we talked about how he's obsessed with the Titanic and like, it's crazy to be a parent and see that, you know, some of the things maybe that you had a different perception of when you were a kid versus when you're a parent. Now, I don't care if you're the best stapler. If you watch your kids staple and that's what they love to do. I only say that because there's a stapler right here.
Jeremy Reymer [00:04:27]:
Right? Right. That's not a normal question I ask you know about something. But I know you and I are close enough. I know that, that you're okay with sharing, that you're pretty open with who you are, your family. There's a blend of business and personal. That's trucking, and you personified that well. So, first of all, congrats on a great year. Right? You've.
Jeremy Reymer [00:04:44]:
You've accomplished a lot. I know you're just getting started, but I know this has been a pretty challenging environment in the industry. But even with that, you've been able to overcome, you know, especially with recruiting and culture. Can you share, like, what's your recipe for success in winning in the recruiting game, especially in a down market?
Jason Douglass [00:05:01]:
One thing that we did at Stokes and Stokes is a classy operation. We were able to dial that down to, you know, an industry low turnover instantly. Since I came back here in October, you know, we were at 35 drivers and 55 trucks, and now we're at 65 drivers and 65 trucks. So we've only had three people quit since I've been here. And I think it's the foundation. You build that foundation. There's no secret sauce. That's why I love sharing it.
Jason Douglass [00:05:30]:
And I think I'm not afraid to tell everybody it because it makes the industry better. So things like on duty time, you'll hear me talk about that. That's one thing that we've changed. Every time that I talked about that on TikTok or something like that, it goes viral. Our guy's like, well, he called me one time at night, and he's like, you have 2,000 messages. When I started talking about paid on duty and paying hub miles and the sick days and things like that, they're normal things for people like you and me that show up. You want a driver to go fuel a truck for free because that's part of the job. What if you get tired? That's covered under workers comp.
Jason Douglass [00:06:05]:
So he's working. So it's like there's all these things that have been overlooked. I've had multiple. I Bet I've had 10 people. I spoke about it on another podcast about paying on duty time, and I've had probably 10 people reach out, hey, how do you do this. We've wanted to do this forever. So if it becomes a trend and other people start doing it and I'm competing against that and it makes the industry better, I'm all for it. I've wanted it for such a long time.
Jason Douglass [00:06:29]:
I hope it becomes a trend. Can they deserve it?
Jeremy Reymer [00:06:32]:
And I think it says a lot about you and your heart and spirit, but also in trucking, especially in safety, definitely there's no secrets. Everybody wants to help everybody. And if you. I mean, I just came from a safety conference, and this is all the stuff that we're talking about. And it's sharing best practices because at the end of the day, nobody wants to see people getting hurt or worse. And so from that perspective, I think that's great. But it's also no surprise that with that attitude that you have, you were a finalist for recruiter of the year. It was this past February at Conversion Interactive's recruiting and retention conference in Nashville.
Jeremy Reymer [00:07:05]:
Can you share a little bit about just what that experience was like?
Jason Douglass [00:07:08]:
It was really cool, you know, to be on this panel and be a part of that. On the biggest stage, you know, with names like Chris Sho and Kimberly Daniel. Big names, big companies, really good at what they do. And to be a 65, 70 truck fleet and to be on there with them and what they do, it was really an honor. So coming from a small fleet to be on a stage with, you know, 10,000 trucks, 15, whatever they had was pretty cool because that's not only a testament to me, I didn't do all that myself. There's a company and everyone else involved that does things. So it's cool to kind of get those ideas and hear from everybody else. And you're right.
Jason Douglass [00:07:46]:
With that fake, you mind? Everybody wants to share. And then recruiting gets a little more tight niche. And I'm like, man, we're all stealing each other's drivers anyway. Let's help each other hire the right people. Then the churn stops. So if we start doing that and we find out what works for you, like offense stokes drivers, I'll send people that live on Pelt Lake. I'll be like, you know what? You're not a good fit for us, but will you call these guys? They can get you home every Friday. It works so much better that way because I already know he's not going to last a long time here.
Jason Douglass [00:08:15]:
We're not the right fit for him. So why not send him somewhere where he's going to be, fill their truck, blow their churn, and thus flowing the Churn in the industry.
Jeremy Reymer [00:08:25]:
I also want to touch on your experience with TCA's Elevate Leadership Group. This was the first year that they did it and you were in that inaugural group. Right. What was that experience like? And is that something you'd recommend to others? You know, up and coming leaders in the industry?
Jason Douglass [00:08:38]:
Absolutely. It's such a cool program. And Eric Rabar is the perfect person to lead that. He's like, if you're a new person in the industry and he's always around at every TCA event and you want to get to know somebody, he's just there walking around, perfect person to go and start chatting to. So if you show up to one of these events by yourself, Eric leads the elevate program. He's the man for the job. And then networking with people, I mean, this last year has been awesome. People I've been able to reach out to, getting to have friends.
Jason Douglass [00:09:10]:
I mean, we're bringing up this industry together so we have the same viewpoint. Doing the call on Washington with everybody really building this camaraderie. And then we're really going to be the ones that are putting build legislation to help bring that up and fight the fight that we all are in right now for trucking. So I will never miss another call on Washington if I can help it because of that. And I might not have gotten that opportunity if it wasn't for elevate. And then the same with some of the people that I became friends with.
Jeremy Reymer [00:09:41]:
With experiences like that, you had opportunities to kind of share your story and some of the challenges that that you faced and some of those, I mean, have resonated really well. You know, I know you've talked about your battle with addiction. You shared that at TCA's annual conference in Phoenix and how you were able to overcome that addiction. Right. Why is it important you to share about your struggles and how does that resonate with the audience?
Jason Douglass [00:10:05]:
I think trucking's pretty well connected with alcohol. I don't think that's a secret. There's events, it's a hard job. People relax on the weekend with alcohol. There's no shade my way thrown towards anybody that drinks. I go out with my friends and they have drinks. Unfortunately, it's something I'm not allowed to have anymore because I don't have an off button. And luckily, nothing bad happened.
Jason Douglass [00:10:29]:
I was not the best version of myself. Hit 40 years next month. Everything had quadrupled for me. Any personal network, mental network, physical network, whatever you want to call it, it's just Everything has been so much better for me. Part of that's been running, but, you know, I'm injured. I had surgery on my leg here. I got my half man, half robot going on in the past. I can tell you right now, that would lead to me drinking as well.
Jason Douglass [00:10:57]:
It sucks so bad that I can't run right now. I'm mentally so much stronger that I'm still waking up, doing push ups, doing sit ups, reading whatever it may be to keep myself going. I'm not this depressed. Rob in the corner. Sure, there's moments we're not all at our highest peak, but it taught me to overcome adversity and be stronger than the moment. And think of the big picture of six months from now when I am qualifying for Boston and doing these things that are important to me.
Jeremy Reymer [00:11:26]:
Well, I think when you share those stories and you share your background, your past, people, they can relate in some cases, right? And also they know that, like, hey, we all have different challenges that we're dealing with. And I think it's very open, it's honest, it's real, and it, I think it's important people, they trust, right? When you have those sorts of conversations and you're willing to be open and vulnerable and share, you can build a really strong relationship. And what I was going to ask also on top of that is you said that not every day you're going to be at your peak. And I know that's we're human, right? So what do you do when you're not? How do you sort of do what you can to stay dialed in then?
Jason Douglass [00:12:06]:
It's a mindset that, you know that I've accepted the fact that, that tomorrow's going to come no matter what. Whether you're happy, you're sad, you're depressed, tomorrow's coming, you're not always going to be motivated, you're not always going to be that. But you have a job to do and you might as well show up for it and try to be the best version of you that you can. Which might only be a B that day, but normally maybe you'd be a D minus, but the best version of you that day is a B, which is much better than that, D minus. So I've noticed one thing for me that it brings up everyone else around me being able to implement an EAE program. My goal was if I just helped one person, so if just talking, if I just helped one person be a better father, be a better husband, be a better them, whatever it may be, I've done My job, even if I do this and talk about it for 20 years and it helps one person and it stands down through their bloodline, I would be ecstatic because I know what it's done for me and my family. Just one person is everything.
Jeremy Reymer [00:13:08]:
This is what I'll say about you too. Just because of our relationship. There's times where I think sometimes we need each other. Sometimes when you're challenge, you just need others. I mean, we're social animals. Humans need each other. We need community. And I appreciate that you are certainly that for me from time to time.
Jeremy Reymer [00:13:25]:
And I know that I can be that for you from time to time. And I think that's so important. And there's a lot of us that are, you know, people listening to this show, people who are in the industry that we know that we're close friends with that also. You have that relationship with that. We can help each other, we can support each other. And I think that's super important also.
Jason Douglass [00:13:40]:
Yeah. And I think that's why, like my network has grown the way that it has is if they're not people that get along, we're not going to talk very much. That doesn't mean I don't like you. But if we're not gelling or whatever and we don't have the same goals, we probably don't hang out in the same circles. But there's so many people that I have genuine conversations with that are just amazing people. Way too many to name on the show that I've just been so fortunate to meet through. You know, whether it be tch, that's been a big part of my growth is tca. So that elevate program and volunteering through that and doing the call in Washington and handing out badges and meeting everybody that checks in on events and being part of some of the committees and they just grow and grow.
Jason Douglass [00:14:23]:
Then it's infectious. And you're around people that are passionate and when they find out you're passionate, then it just blossoms into this thing that's just the trucking industry, which, you know, I've lost that passion before and I'm so glad I came back to.
Jeremy Reymer [00:14:37]:
Find it at events like those. It's. It can. It's contagious. And also there's some really good people. And I say this all the time, but, you know, you can build relationships in trucking and you can build relationships that last a lifetime. You certainly got to invest, you got to put your heart out there, but they'll last a lifetime. You touched on mental health A little bit.
Jeremy Reymer [00:14:54]:
I want to get back to that because I know in the show's Industry Health segment, which is sponsored by Project 61, there's a question related to mental health. And by the way, real quick, before we even dive into that, I just. On Project 61 is, as I know you, you know very well, as you are a board member, one of the founding board members of Project 61, definitely appreciate your help and support there. There's a lot of momentum in this area. I love that. I'm, I'm grateful that people are paying attention, that people are aware that an average life expectancy of 61 years old is not okay. And we can do better than that. We as an industry can do better than that, and we must do better than that.
Jeremy Reymer [00:15:34]:
And so I appreciate your, your help and support there.
Jason Douglass [00:15:38]:
These are my friends driving down the road. These are the people that I've hired, the people on an insurance plan, people that work for me, the people that work in this organization that we're building. We want them to live longer. I want them to be healthy. I want them to be happy. This wasn't even a topic until a couple years ago, so it's crazy. I am happy. The momentum and so many people are coming in, into this space and everyone that's coming into this space.
Jason Douglass [00:16:02]:
There is no competition between anybody in this case. We are all your friend and your ally and we all need to come together to do something.
Jeremy Reymer [00:16:10]:
Yeah, absolutely. We've got to work together. The mission is a lot bigger than any one of us. That's super important. So from a mental health standpoint, here's the question. How much of a concern should mental health be for truck drivers? We talk about food, we talk about a lot of times, we're talking about fitness and things like that, but mental health, it doesn't get as much billing as I think it probably should. What do you think about that?
Jason Douglass [00:16:35]:
Been in the industry just over 17 years now. 18 years. You talk to anybody that had the various positions that I have asked them to tell you a story where a driver has been stressed and freaked out and had a shipper call on them or a truck stopper, It's a regular thing, no shade towards that driver. It's a stressful job. You know, something can drive him for 11 hours. You're late, your wife is calling you, your house payment to do. Your kid sick, somebody broke their arm, you're going to be behind. You're thousands of miles across the country.
Jason Douglass [00:17:05]:
And all of this is all happening simultaneously while you're Late for an appointment that's going to make you sit while you're not getting paid. Who doesn't that affect mentally? That affect you mentally? It affect me mentally. It's a hard job. So I think it's as important, if not more important. I've learned for me, I've watched my physical shape and my speed and my running and everything change when I fixed my mind. So it's not necessarily that it was this big caveat of he's depressed and blah blah blah and nobody eggshells around him. But I do use an EAP because I believe in it. I saw a therapist for two years and whatever anybody wants to poke fun, I don't really care at all.
Jason Douglas [00:17:47]:
It made a much better me and this version of me stands strong and tall. That's why I implemented it for post accident where drivers might need it. I've implemented it for their spouses if they need it. We've implemented it for their kids to a certain age. It gets a little trickier on that. But for their family, marriage stuff, people need help and they need to talk through these problems and they haven't given a big enough platform. And so I'm really glad that through Covid mental health took a bigger stance. But drivers kind of got forgotten about and they're still isolated in this truck.
Jason Douglass [00:18:19]:
So we owe it to them to provide somewhere for them to talk to. Like mine can be a zoom meeting for the drivers. It can be in person or it can just be a phone call. Some of them don't want to do that. And once I share my story that hey man, I was there two years before I got sober, they're like, what? Really? You, you went to a therapist for two years? I was like, yes, I did. And you know what? It saved my life. It saved so many different things. My kids lives are going to be different because I went through therapy.
Jeremy Reymer [00:18:50]:
I think it's so important and I'm glad you said that about addressing it versus thinking that it's not okay. Like you can't, you know, try to get help. It's important. We need again, I'm kind of going back to what we were talking about before. We need other people, we need help sometimes. You know, my kids are huge Imagine Dragons fans and he's been very vocal about hey, it is not weak to go and get help. Like it's okay, like you should do it, it's important. It's actually, it's strong, it's brave.
Jeremy Reymer [00:19:19]:
And so I think from that perspective, I like that message. I think that it's an important one.
Jason Douglass [00:19:25]:
It's one that we all need to listen to. Because I can tell you right now, I could grit through it and be a little bit miserable and be a shadow of myself for the rest of my life. I can talk through it, no problem. But I made the decision that I wanted to be better. And so that's the change in it. Do you want to be better? I mean, you can grit to it, be a tough guy, be a tough woman, whatever it want. But if you truly want to get better and work out these problems, seeking help from professional people and they do wonders. And drivers that I've had go through that program, especially post accident, you know, fatal accident, one of my driver's fault.
Jason Douglass [00:19:59]:
You know, I stayed up with him for four or five hours just talking to him. And I was able to get him into a counselor two days later on the weekend, on a Sunday. And, you know, two people just died in front of him. Not his fault, not even by. He witnessed it, which is traumatic. And the help that he got is still, he's like, I needed that so much. Thank you so much. And that, that's not me.
Jason Douglass [00:20:23]:
That's, you know, the company and that's the, the trained therapist doing that. I just. A vessel in believing and, and helping provide that.
Jeremy Reymer [00:20:31]:
I appreciate that. And I know we're about out of time, but before we go, I. I definitely want to get back to that book recommendation. So is there a particular book that you've read that you'd like to share with the audience? Something that's been impactful to you?
Jason Douglass [00:20:44]:
I'm going to get the name wrong because you've recommended two to me. But in your book club, the first book that we read this year, I've read both of them on your recommendation. But the Happiest man on Earth, I'm not much of a reader. I think I've been better with the book club. Not going to the gym this last couple weeks, I've just been listening to music at my house instead of a book. Grand is where I listen to the book. But anyway, the Happiest man on the Earth is a book I would never have read if it wasn't for the book club. The people that survived and the people that didn't is what they grasped onto and the hope that they had of who they would see again.
Jason Douglass [00:21:19]:
And it really puts things into perspective. What do you have to live for if you were in that situation? What hope would you have? What's my hope now? Every day when I leave my house what am I fighting for if I was taken away from her, what would bring me back? It hit kind of hard. He yeah, my children, my family, my. I would hold on to every last thread onto that as hard as I could. I was really glad I got to read that perspective and just how a terrible story hopefully helps so many people to change their perspective on things of finding hope and holding onto that. And what I got out of it too was he was an opportunist. He put himself in situations to make life better for him. As he went down, he always came, he got somewhere good and then it just got tumbled back down.
Jason Douglass [00:22:00]:
But then he opportunities way back up to better life things and so I thought that was pretty cool.
Jeremy Reymer [00:22:05]:
It was a great book. It was a fairly short read for anybody if not familiar with it for context. He was a Auschwitz survivor. It was fantastic. And his attitude I think was what in that mindset that he had, I mean he, he was almost unshakable with just having a positive mindset. Very, very philosophical, very stoic really where you're, look, there are things that happen outside of your control. You have no control over you. But what you can control is how you're going to respond, how you're going to think and behave.
Jeremy Reymer [00:22:34]:
That's a great example of that. And there's so many, you know, I'm.
Jason Douglass [00:22:37]:
Sitting here with a busted foot, can't run, cab it, cancel my race, had to cancel my other stuff. I've gained 15 pound. I'm fine, I'll be all right. I'll shut it off here but like I'm not comparing that to anything but you know, you are what you make it.
Jeremy Reymer [00:22:51]:
Jason, thank you so much for joining me. Always enjoy spending time with you. Really appreciate our friendship and look forward to seeing you again soon.
Jason Douglass [00:22:57]:
Likewise. Man goes too fast.
Jeremy Reymer [00:22:59]:
Thank you for taking the Higher Road with me. Once again, special thanks to the sponsors of the show. We really appreciate you. If you are interested in being a sponsor or joining me for an interview, please email Jeremy@takingthehighroad.com until next time. Thank you for taking the Higher Road.