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Campus Ministry Leadership Podcast
EP 053 - Finding, Feeding, And Fighting For Our Students - Alex Rodriguez - Campus Ministry Leadership Podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-053-finding-feeding-fighting-for-our-students-alex/id1194755558?i=1000399343254
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-053-finding-feeding-fighting-for-our-students-alex/id1194755558?i=1000399343254
Recommended read for Young Men's Mentoring:
"Fathered by God: Learning What Your Dad Could Never Teach You" by John Eldredge
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Purity groups, skateboarding, youth ministry, It's all here in this interview, this episode with Jason Derama reaching youth dot org. We hope you enjoy today's episode. If it gives you value, please share it with someone. Just click the share button and text it to somebody and say, thought you should listen. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:You can mentor. Welcome back to the You can mentor podcast. My name is Steven, and I'm here with a special guest, Jason Deramo, coming from North Carolina.
Speaker 3:Hey, guys. What's going on?
Speaker 2:Jason, where in North Carolina are you?
Speaker 3:So I'm I'm actually in Sanford, North Carolina, which is about about 30, 45 minutes outside of Raleigh Durham area. So
Speaker 2:So the only thing I've done in North Carolina is longboard. And I I mentioned this to you on our call, but when I was in college, I was friends with a bunch of bare footed longboarders. And some of them moved to North Carolina, and there's some hills to bomb in North Carolina. So I I don't know how you ended up in North Carolina. Have you always been there?
Speaker 3:Military. Military brought me here. Your dad or you or your mom? I I personally I joined the army at, 19. Pretty much have been in the South the entire time.
Speaker 3:It's crazy. Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina. And, it was the people. The people in the community really just kinda kept me here. It's very different from Southern California where I where I grew up.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, it's it's a little slower, you know, little slower, but it's just it's kinda like bible belt, you know, it's that it got me, you know. Of course, I have a truck now, you know, like, I got a I got a gun. So got all all all the right things. Yeah. Just need a dog.
Speaker 3:Got a cat.
Speaker 2:Well, and, maybe I'm getting too far ahead of myself, but Jason, he leads an organization called Reaching Youth. Their website is reaching youth dot org.
Speaker 3:If you wanna check that out, we'll put
Speaker 2:it in our show notes. But his desire has been to serve youth of his city and respond to the cultural crisis that's happening. So, obviously, fatherlessness is a huge issue going on in our country, and and that's an issue that that Jason's been passionate about addressing. And one of the things that he's run into is a skateboarding community. And so I wanna talk more about the community that you've kinda been building with students, but more I just want you to share the reaching youth story.
Speaker 2:You already mentioned military background, so would love to just hear more about your personal story and lead us into when you launched.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, reaching youth dot org is actually I wasn't the original founder of that idea or that ministry, that website at least. It was actually previously in in it was a a youth ministry that was out of Texas. When I had the idea of the ministry, when I knew it was it was a burden to to go after young men, or young people, but still kind of defining it. But I wanted to have, obviously, a website. I wanted to have a way that people connect with content.
Speaker 3:Wasn't really huge on social media. I started putting out a little bit of content on YouTube. And but I realized that, like, you know, the the name was available. And so I I was like, okay, cool. I wanted to, you know, build the ministry around, you know, that that theme of of engaging with young people.
Speaker 3:But really it really started with a connection I had with a young man in one of my church groups. It was a men's purity group. And it was kind of a place where, you know, you get different guys and different backgrounds. There's most, you know, half and half, mostly military guys. And there's a whole bit of the issues there, but, you know, some locals too.
Speaker 3:And this young man, he's probably, like, 16 at the time, 15 or 16, but he had he he knew the gospel. You know, he he definitely was saved, but he was struggling with the flesh because of family brokenness, because of and this is this isn't the church. So this is not, you know, someone that, you know, they may have, you know, came in through a, you know, a relative or just, you know, a friend or someone. His grandpa was in the group, but he was very much involved in the youth programs at the church. And so it's interesting how we we think sometimes in the faith that, you know, the kids, oh, well, they're they're so young.
Speaker 3:What can they be exposed to? Or, you know, oh, but it's just they go online. They see these things, but, you know, they're probably not doing. No. No.
Speaker 3:That a lot of them are actually really struggling with these things. And it's it's almost, you can't just assume that because the outside looks good, the socials look good, parents and family look good. Because I see some of the dads in the group and some of the issues they have with the Flash and Fidelity, you know, marriage struggles, things like that. And so it was almost like an opportunity to hopefully intercede in a young person's life because I was kind of that same young person, but I didn't stay in the church. I just lived my life recklessly.
Speaker 3:And, of course, I joined the military because I didn't didn't really have anything else going on. And that wasn't an easy decision, by the way. Like, I went straight to war and it was a whole whole motional roller coaster and, you know, addictions and all kinds of stuff in between. But being able to invest in a young person's life. And it's unheard of for someone.
Speaker 3:It's really rare for young people like that to want to get free of some of these addictions and strongholds with all the issues going on. I talk a little bit about it. I've done newsletters on this very, very direct, you know, kind of not super explicit, but kinda like PG 13, where it's like, hey, like, pornography, masturbation, you know, sex addiction, you know, all these things that young people are exposed to, particularly young men, addictions, just all the different worldly aspects of of life. And and so I think being able to work specifically with a few guys, few young people, and and and get right to the heart of the issue and organically relationship form from that. And we got to kinda do mission I would say missionary work by evangelism.
Speaker 3:And I and the key is I always wanted to make sure it was youth led. I wanted to make sure that if I step into their world, that I'm not trying to shortcut or step in front of where God's using them and leading them. I think that's one of the other things I've learned about, particularly the the mentoring process is that they kinda get to get them in the driver's seat. And and we just I think we just kind of steer them occasionally and oftentimes kind of pump the brakes. But mostly, you know, once they get in the vehicle, they kind of drive you.
Speaker 3:And that's where you get to kind of see what's going on in their world and some of the issues they struggle, they they struggle with and how they overcome it. So yeah. That's how I got sucked into skateboarding.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think most people think of mentoring that way of putting the mentee in the driver's seat. Most people will probably envision, I'm the one driving this thing. Get in the car.
Speaker 3:I still have a wheel on my side too. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And but, I I mean, I think that that that speaks volumes to, I mean, developing trust with a kid and allowing them to have agency. And, I mean, I love I love that. Now walk me through I mean, I I haven't I literally haven't heard of a 16 year old going to a purity group before. That that sounds peculiar to me. I mean
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a different place.
Speaker 2:What's the story there? I mean, obviously, is he being, like, forced by his parents to go to this or No. It's not his own volition.
Speaker 3:It's, here's here's the best way I can put it. One, I don't think this is just a case by case basis. I think that a lot of churches don't have a space like this because either it's it hasn't become a big enough problem, or it's just they don't know how to handle it. I I believe nowadays, it's it's at least okay in most churches to mention these things. I know a lot of big, a lot of the larger mega churches now have done series on them.
Speaker 3:Pastors even said, hey. I struggle with this. This. They're not afraid to admit it. But the church the church community we're a part of was a very large church community.
Speaker 3:And I no long I no longer attended. But at the time, I I definitely think when you create an environment, especially when it's in a military community near Fort Bragg, it it definitely it becomes attractive, I guess, to certain well, I'll say it this way. Because there's a space that is available and because other men are also in that space, whether 16 mostly, like, 16 to 60 in that range. It it doesn't it's not as shameful to go there. And I think they'd handle it pretty well because they don't cover it up.
Speaker 3:And so for a young man to go there, I think obviously his grandpa was was an encourager in that respect because his grandpa also attended the group. I think also the unique call that God's put on this young man because not every young person is capable of doing raw evangelism. And I noticed that pretty quickly. He had a pretty he had a fur he had a pretty good grasp on the scripture, the whole counsel of God, as we would say. Like, he he knew enough.
Speaker 3:And I was already a couple years in the seminary, and I'm like, definitely stood apart. And of course, I'm like, I mean, I'm looking for young guys. I'm looking for people of faith because I got kind of, I got a little tired of just the guys in the group that were just okay to showing up and, you know, listening or or giving a little bit about their life and not really wanting to to take it out and in in in into practice. And so that was kind of a a struggle I was having, not having, like, an apprentice or not having, you know, other people interested like. So, yeah, I am.
Speaker 3:You know, long story short, I I was I reached out to his grandpa, and I was like, hey. You know? Can I, you know, you know, take him out to coffee or whatever? And, of course, I'm thinking, like, man, I have to get I have to go through all these different channels and talk to parents. They were, like, happy.
Speaker 3:They were, like, super excited for me, but it's a it's a balancing act. I mean, there's there's a point. They have to trust you. They you know, a lot of people would know is that, you know, this young man had been violated before by other people. And so there's there's there's so many different dimensions to where you you have to be cognizant of what you're saying if you are in the same vehicle together.
Speaker 3:Certain things like I reached out to his parents. I'm, hey, I'm gonna pick them up. And just being careful about those things, you know, especially minor. So doing this in a ad hoc way at the point at the time when we met, reaching youth wasn't really a thing yet. It was kind of in development mode, but that was still within the church.
Speaker 3:So it was it was cool. Externally, it gets a little bit more tricky, and I'm involved in mentoring organizations where you have to get you you can't do that. You have to get cleared. You have to have, you know, a guardian present and it's a big deal. So anyway, so let's say I was looking for Faith.
Speaker 3:I find it in this young man and he was he had gone to skatepar since he was a skater and he liked producing music. So it took about a year year and a half for that trust to really be there. He blew me off a bunch of times. He'd call hang up, you know, just just and he would he told me later is that he was struggling with the flesh. He was struggling with, you know, you know, relationships, you know, premarital sex, you know, things like things that there was shame, but he he knew that what he was doing is breathing in the holy spirit.
Speaker 3:And so a year into it later, I was I was sat with his parents and I was able to actually this is like a small miracle. I was able to actually convince them. He was like 716 or something. I was able to convince them to let me take him to a men's conference in Virginia in Lynchburg where Liberty is. And, it was just such it was, like, right in the beginning of COVID.
Speaker 3:Tim Tebow, Mark's Latrell from the Navy SEAL from the survivor, all these different leaders there. We got I'd give him the whole tell information we're at. And then we went to a skate park out there, and that's when I realized, like, wait a second. Like, there's so much more to this young man's life and that was unforgettable experience 100% like 5,000 men praying together. He got to be a part of it.
Speaker 3:And actually he came out to T Bone Thibault and he had a baseball signed by him. It's pretty cool. So what I did is I I took I had some other men from the group sign their names on this ball, and I even had him sign it. And then let me see. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Tim Tebow's got his name right there. He used to play baseball. He used to play professional baseball for a little bit. That was like a dream of his. I was a really good football player too.
Speaker 3:And then I actually signed my name and then I was going to get I told him I'd give this back to him when he completes his 1st semester in college. Wow. Which at the time was is just it from where he was at, That was a short miracle. But like he's I think he's now finally come around. He's trying to finish his his high school diploma and I've no doubt he's gonna he's gonna blow everybody away.
Speaker 3:So he'll get this back one day. But yeah, you know, that's kind of it on the fast forward. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Pretty cool thing.
Speaker 3:But, you know, it's the only get I feel like you only get 1 or 2 of those is like I've had other guys have mentored. It's hard just to even get them on the phone call, you know, or text, you know, so it's different levels.
Speaker 2:And you you said that he was kind of bailing on you or not returning phone calls for a little bit. Yeah. It's like your pursuit, like, was everything to continue, like, not give up on this kid that you saw potential in which I mean,
Speaker 3:I mean, there's yeah. Yeah. There's times I want to write them off. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah.
Speaker 3:If you guys are free mentors out there, man, keep keep stay in the fight, stay in the fight. It's what they're worth it.
Speaker 2:No. I mean, we had a mentor in our program who he his kid was in 6th grade, and, I mean, we would meet twice, every other month and go grab coffee or lunch. And this mentor would share with me, this kid has shared 3 words with me since I last saw you. Good, yes, no. And Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, I mean, this mentor was so frustrated, not only with this kid, but also with me because he was like, aren't you supposed to be helping me, like, figure this out? And he was like, there's nothing I I can do or or it felt that way at least. And then all of a sudden, this kid's in 7th grade. He's the most talkative kid you've ever seen, and he's engaged. He's talking back to this mentor asking questions.
Speaker 2:And it's like, if this mentor would have just given up and said throw in the towel, like, maybe he wouldn't have gotten to the season that he's in right now. I love how your relationship with this kid was kinda birthed in the church because I I imagine most mentors listening right now, they they might not have even thought that that was an option that that they could mentor a kid at at their church that needed mentoring. And there's a lot of organizations that are wanting to see the church not just focus on discipleship but mentorship of of pulling kids in. And, I mean, I guess my view of discipleship would be the I'm in the driver's seat. I'm teaching you everything that you need to know.
Speaker 2:And mentorship is kinda what you're saying is letting them drive and giving them feedback and sharing experiences and asking follow-up questions and and not necessarily going through this foundational, this is what you do and yada yada yada. Would that be a fair assessment?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I was, I get distracted sometimes with the computer, Bob. I was trying to find this this podcast that I think really drives home kind of what that process looked like. And yeah, I agree. Like not every yep.
Speaker 3:Not every person you're mentoring is going to allow that relationship to go kind of like the next level. Sometimes you're doing a lot of sewing or a lot of, you know, you're trying to break apart the rocky ground. There's this campus ministry, and I'll I'll send you a link so you can put it in the show notes, people are interested. It is a talk that this campus, it's like a Christian fraternity. It's called Chi Alpha.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of bigger colleges have a a chapter. Chi Alpha Chi Alpha. I say it's Chi Alpha. Chi Alpha. Chi Alpha.
Speaker 3:Chi Alpha. I just drink tea.
Speaker 2:That's all they need.
Speaker 3:That's good. Yeah. So Chi Alpha, they I used to listen to their leadership podcast, and they had an episode, I think it's this is a blog, but I think it's on the video. It's they call it's like find, fight and feed. So the idea is that you're looking for particular people that are, like, you know, faithful, available, teachable.
Speaker 3:You're you you fight for those that
Speaker 2:for fat people. That's what you just said.
Speaker 3:Sure. Sure. Sure. Fat people. But you you you fight for those.
Speaker 3:So you find them when you find them, you fight for them and then you continue to feed into them. And so I think just to use, you know, this young man as an example, I think that when I saw him, where he was at, I related to him because of I was in that same place. But I realized that he had what I did have when he was young. He actually had the Holy Spirit. And when somebody has it, even if they're coming from a position of brokenness, even if they're knee deep in their sin, when they have it, you can you can work with that.
Speaker 3:And I think the frustration I've had even more in the secular space doing mentoring because there's there's a way we do it in in the faith. And I think this is what you were kind of getting at is that when it's within the context of our faith, when you're mentoring biblically, when you're when you're doing biblical discipleship using mentoring as the vehicle for that connection, whether it's even like in counseling, I've I've realized I've grown in in in understanding of the word to where even when you're trying to give counsel, it has to be within the context of the faith. If that person's regenerate, they're gonna be able to understand when you are combating some of the lies or some of the struggles they're having with scripture. Whereas to people that aren't familiar with not only God personally or if you're communicating biblical truth to an unregenerate person, you're you're giving them good wisdom, but they don't know how to personalize it because they don't have that intimate relationship. So they might say, hey.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I get it. You know, you know, birds of the feather flock together. Right? You know, like, a bad company bad bad company corrupts good good morals or, you know, you know, I'm trying to think of more proverbs here.
Speaker 3:But essentially, what what I realized is that doing doing this mentoring with Christ at the center of it doesn't necessarily mean that certain things are going to work out the way that you think they are. Like, getting them into college or trying to help them with career decisions isn't the chief end. Whereas in the secular world, some of the college mentoring programs I've been involved with are the military youth. That kinda is the motivation. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You're still trying to give them some self esteem and some growth and maturity. And and this con I've worked with a young man. He's he's a Christian, but it it's within the secular context of the program. There's certain conversation points I can't have with them, but also because we don't really we're not in the same church community. We don't have the same kind of doctrine and theology, which you don't think matters, but it kinda does come up when you're talking about just issues with whatever they're struggling with.
Speaker 3:And so I would say is for if you're mentoring someone and you you don't already have kind of that that basic understanding of of the gospel, and that's not already understood with your like, try to find creative ways to sew in that truth, whether it is entirely with something practical, like, hey, we we would go out, try to think of, like, we used to go get food a lot. That's just an easy way. You know, before we even did skateboarding with, you know, we'd go out and get some heat. And then along the way, when I picked them up, we would talk. If we if we went to the group, I would have I would give him I would either try to take him home or someone else would give him a ride.
Speaker 3:But there's certain moments where you can engrain some kingdom truth. You know, Jesus did this the disciples who'd walk with them and give him some a parable or something. And I think that that's really how we feed those people, how we how we continue to build the mentoring process. So but, yeah, there's there's a lot more to it. And to be honest, there's a lot of touch and go for months.
Speaker 3:There'd be times where I we didn't even talk. And sometimes I'd seen grow by leasing now. I'm like, wow. He's able to hold down a job. Like, that's incredible.
Speaker 3:Like, I would check-in. That's the other big part. You gotta check-in. Like, just because you're they're not talking doesn't mean that you still can't maintain a connection. Talk reach out to their family.
Speaker 3:If you see them in small groups, other people, you know, have been in touch recently, you know, check out their socials. I mean, geez, like just because you're not talking on the phone or texting doesn't mean they're still not, there's a presence of them out there. Like they might be hurting and you could pray for them or whenever you do catch up. Hey man. Yeah.
Speaker 3:How was that? You know, that, that thing that you you know, I saw he used to do, like, rap rap video, hip hop videos and things. And, I'd be like, hey, man. Yeah. I saw that video just dropped.
Speaker 3:That's pretty cool, dude. Like, you know, how you've been since then? Oh, man. I've been really struggling. Hey.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about that. You know? And so, yeah, there's there's there's that too. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, some things that I'm picking up from what you're sharing. You mentioned just kind of at the start, you guys had a shared experience of, either a struggle or an addiction or Mhmm. Just a a past experience that kind of bonds you together. It's like, hey. We're we're common when it comes to this, not like the hippopotamus, but there's a commonality between you.
Speaker 2:And then there's a common direction, like, that that you're wanting to go strive toward. And then there's also a common belief system that you're seeing that, like, okay. Maybe our worldviews aren't entirely the same, but, like, we're we're working to believe the same thing. And, I mean, that that unity across the board past where you're going and what what you believe, like, the foundational things, like, all of those are important. They're not entirely necessary.
Speaker 2:Like, you don't have to have all of those, but it is it's very helpful to have those as you're building relationships or at least be working toward them.
Speaker 3:Sure. Sure.
Speaker 2:Let's get into I mean, just just kind of you you working on seeing skateboarding as something that he enjoys. Like, are you a skateboarder? Like, did you have
Speaker 3:Here's what's here's what's cool, and this is where this is where you think that you're making an impact in their life and where they the table kinda gets turned. So, like, I grew up in Southern California. And even when I was in a longboarder or or something.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, here's
Speaker 3:the thing. It's like so and I've learned so much about the skateboarding culture in the industry since I've been starting this project. You know, because I'm an adult, so now I'll actually do the research before I'll get into things. Like, I haven't fallen, you know, super crazy yet. I've been I've been pretty consistent.
Speaker 3:I'm able to ride the board and, you know, stay on it, but literally, I mean, we had skateboarding was huge. It's still huge. I mean, I was young. Like, yeah, Tony Hawk and all these video games and everything, they were just kind of hitting hitting their, you know, hitting their peak and getting out there. And but the cost of skateboard still is the same.
Speaker 3:You know, the the the level of interest is greater now because, you know, more more more mainstream. I realized it's an escape. And so if they're what is it that they're escaping from? And so that's what kinda led me down. Okay.
Speaker 3:And the other thing too, it's just timing and season. Like, it's COVID. It's hard to do evangelism. It's hard to even do stuff in the church if the church's, you know, doors are closed or they're going through their motions. And so what I realized is there's, like, a bunch of kids, young people outside, and it's public space.
Speaker 3:And so you're you're kinda, like, putting 2 together. And so the first couple of times I would go out with him, I realized, like, he would just kinda skate by, do tricks, talk to some other young people. And then I was like, you know, I just I I wouldn't it's hard to say, like, I didn't really process everything initially, but then I was like I had this idea and I was like, hey, Julian. Like, what if we just do, like, a documentary? We just, like, kind of, like, interview people and spread the gospel.
Speaker 3:And and and, of course, he is just, like, super jazzed. He's like, oh, man. Yeah. That's you know, we need, yeah, we need more harvesters out. We need more people laborers out there in the harvest.
Speaker 3:And so then it evolved. I got, like, this this outdoor PA system would go there, play music. I would have, you know, him I would I would I put him in the driver's seat because I realized if I'm out there, I kinda like emcee it. But if I'm out there preaching to them, then it's another adult talking down to them or it's another person an outsider. Whereas he is more familiar with the culture people people have seen him.
Speaker 3:And so he would actually go there. He would just it was interesting. Whenever we tried to like plan it and then when it actually came to us going there and kind of completely change it. Like sometimes I'd be like, hey man, I have this idea. Like I was reading something in scripture.
Speaker 3:Maybe we should mention this news like that. It's kind of lame. I'm like, alright, fine. Like, but then we would get there and he's like, hey man, let's do that thing that you talked about. And so, and then I would like, man, I like had, like, I had some, like, just like clothes that I I think I bought, but I just never wore them.
Speaker 3:Like, you know, these kids probably, I don't know if these kids have money or not. So, like, I had did some just donate them. Like, I had some, like, nice shirts and things. I was like, hey. You know, they were like, hey.
Speaker 3:So we basically just gave stuff away. We're like, you know, like, but brand name stuff, you know, like some of the major brands. And because the kids, they they know. They won't forget. So, yeah, then I was just, it wound up just being like a ministry.
Speaker 3:It's like, okay, like, let's go out there and he would sometimes he'd go and he'd just say like the Ten Commandments and like you'd you'd hear skaters. They they would listen. They may not stop and, like, you know, like, oh, let me see what what these people are talking. But you can tell that people it was starting to get in. We we would do, like, a trick contest and they would give, you know, and I would, of course, I've done, like, little small projects and videos and documentaries and things and interview stuff for college and, you know, just fun stuff.
Speaker 3:But this was more I really wanted to kind of get an inside look of the culture and really see what's going on. And, you know, as an observer, I realized, man, there's a lot of pain. There's it's an escape. It's an outlet for them, but it's kind of a neutral ground. And so I guess maybe, like, the comparable a comparable culture be, like, surf culture.
Speaker 3:You know, it's kind of another culture. It's very similar. There's there's almost like a there's a there's a place for ideas to travel. There's a place, but you can't get access like you would maybe in other venues. Like, you really have to kind of show up.
Speaker 3:People have to kind of see you. They have to they have to know that you're not a threat. And so, yeah, I think coming in there being intentional and being forward with them, it not being just me communicate. Like, it was kind of my one of my mentees getting out there, and he was the one driving. And so and I was always calling to him, like, hey.
Speaker 3:I can get out there and really kind of, honcho and take the lead on this thing. But the more acts, the more agency, the more I empowered his name's Julian. He's he's 18 now, so he's he's okay. He's on the website too. So you can you can see his info in there.
Speaker 3:But the point is is the more I can empower Julian to to be encouraged to go out there And because he's been, he's the next, he's the next generation. And this is, I think what we miss all the time, whether we're, you know, youth leaders or, you know, parents, whatever. It's like the more you encourage them to get out in front and then just knowing you're kind of there, the better off they're gonna be. Whether they're wanna go on missions, whether they're, you know, wanna go on campus ministry, whether they're just gonna go into the workplace or in school, especially higher education. They're gonna be able to stand on their own feet.
Speaker 3:Whereas if you're constantly just kind of, like, keeping them on a short leash and you're always, you know, kind of making sure and, like, correctly, we do a little we call it in the army, a little after action review. Every time we'd go out, we'd talk about what happened. You know, what how can we improve things? But he would text me sometimes or call him, like, hey, we should do this. And I'm like, okay.
Speaker 3:Let's pray about it. Sometimes I'd be like, hey, man. We really need to do this. We need to get out there, and I wanna film this. He's like, dude, woah.
Speaker 3:Like, we need to stop down. We need to pray about this. And I'm like, alright. Fine. Right.
Speaker 3:Right. And so I think that that kind of relationship, it really is forged as we know, it's forged through battle. It's it's earned. And sometimes you have to kind of you have to be cognizant. Like he's a young he's a young person.
Speaker 3:So yeah, you know, there's times when I'm like, hey, you're not gonna talk to me that way. Like, you shouldn't talk to any adult that way, but you're not gonna talk to me that way. Like, and he's like, alright, you're right. You're right. So I think there's a there's a level of trust that that you you get to it's almost you earn the right to speak in their life.
Speaker 3:And they give you access into their life. It's not that you by default, get access to their life, because what they could do is they could pretend like you're you're speaking into their life and just give you the same canned responses, or they can actually let you have access. And once you're in there, you gotta be very, very careful what you do because they could sometimes take what you say and run with it, and it's not it's not always the best outcome, and you get you get to be responsible for that.
Speaker 2:A question on that is, like, I I think particularly in ministry circles, it's I'll give you leadership opportunities if you prove to me you're faithful. And kinda what you're saying is that as this kid gives me access to his life, I give him leadership opportunities. And I don't take that access to sit in leadership. I take it to lift him up and put him in situations where where he's leading.
Speaker 3:And and that's that's a great point. So that's that like, I I had to study. I had a kind of unique seminary experience. My first two years were was a master's of Christian leadership. So it was a lot of organizational leadership and servant leadership and different theories and research and something like that would be more like a transformational approach.
Speaker 3:Right? So you're in a formal organization setting or even in a ministry setting, you know, something that's structured, that is ideal. And and that is something that is kind of almost it's implicit too by k. We're here intentionally building up next level leaders. And we talked about this work.
Speaker 3:I feel like with mentoring, because it wasn't under the guise of I wasn't a youth pastor, I wasn't his older sibling, I wasn't in a formal mentoring capacity. And so in that in that regard, I think that is very much what is expected. Hey, you want more responsibility. We see the potential. It's kind of just kind of observe and wait for opportunities and realize things could kind of change in between, but we definitely see it and we want to invest in that.
Speaker 3:However, the are I'd say in this particular case, it was kind of more to borrow from the Navs Ministry, it's kind of an alongside our approach. There wasn't really a I don't I didn't I didn't grant him leadership opportunity because it's Christ's ministry. And so it was more like it was more like partnership because I didn't really have a position for him. I mean, yeah, I was kind of building up, you know, the the reaching youth ministry. And, of course, there was opportunity for him to get spotlight and to to get his message out there.
Speaker 3:But I never actually approached him under the pretense that he would be a part in the organization. Here's the thing. I did that for others, and I realized that for them, they didn't stick around. Even though upfront, they were like, hey. Actually, I really believe in what you're doing.
Speaker 3:I think in those cases, it was it was more like I think they really wanted something defined where there's money and they get a salary. And it's like, woah. Like but I wanted you just to do a few little tasks. But for Julian, I think it was more it was never about him getting folding him up into the the ministry and getting him, you know, experiences. It wasn't transactional.
Speaker 3:It was more like, hey, if defining the win define the win, the win was he didn't slip back into unhealthy relationship. He followed up with a like the win. I think for him was just watching him grow up into a mature man of God and celebrating with him. And I think that we we miss that sometimes whether in the in the process of trying to get him there, we focus too much on what we need to get you a certain point, or I I can't invest in that. So I'll just say this to say, Julian may be a little bit special in the sense that my whole intent was not, it was not really to get him to do something more just for him to learn how to actually live in a biblically responsible way.
Speaker 3:Oh, and by the way, like, along the way, I did try to get him to do a few things, but it didn't it doesn't ultimately work out the way that you think. So there's that. But yeah. That's great. You can try.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I was having a conversation with a guy today, and I I think this relates. I mean, you were talking about pornography, masturbation, purity, and all this stuff, which this I mean, obviously,
Speaker 3:it's
Speaker 2:a man's struggle. It's a woman's struggle as well. But the the common thread is that we don't talk about it. And another common thread is that in a way, it become it becomes something that's like a disqualifier of, like, if I struggle with this, that means that I can't do this. Or I I I had a meeting today with a guy.
Speaker 2:He said, if I struggle with this, does that mean I can't date girls? And and I'm Yeah. He was genuinely honest about all this stuff. And and now I'll say that if you're a mentor listening to this podcast, I would highly encourage you to talk about this stuff because more often than not, no one's talking to the kid you're mentoring about this. And so maybe Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe you need to broach that conversation. Yeah. But
Speaker 3:Yeah. I was I was
Speaker 2:gonna At the same time and and here's here's my thought is that
Speaker 3:the
Speaker 2:the impact like, what what you're saying is that Julian wanted to share the gospel.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:In Yeah. In your mind, you are like, well, I mean, I don't think that's a good idea. Like like, that wasn't your
Speaker 3:that wasn't your thing. I definitely think well, here here's what I'll say. There's there's so much. We can unpack this in a whole different conversation, but I'll just say where I met Julian was in that group. So if you have meant if you're mentoring young young kids out there, whether you know, obviously, you know, you know, men mentor men, women mentor women, you know, just yeah.
Speaker 3:But that's a separate that's a that's a conversation. That's a level of access that you shouldn't expect to get. You may never get. I mean, I don't even always get that with other men in ministry and in fellowship that I'm with. More if it is, it's very surface level.
Speaker 3:That's a level of intimacy that, you know, you have to earn. And it and it could be it could be that there's a struggle there, but you may not be the the best person. Well, you should be, you ideally, but you may not be in their world, the the person that they wanna open up to. I will say this though, and this is something I've learned. We need to just not even as mentors, as followers of Jesus, we need to get over the fact that we can't have uncomfortable conversations.
Speaker 3:It's the fact that we are still, like, hiding some of these things. I mean, the secular world is talking about this for crying out loud. You have people out there with ministries on the NoFap and all this other stuff that are not even saved. And we we are just now creating a place for this in the church where it's like actually raw and it's addressing this. It's a great sermon pastor my last church did on on all the stats and everything.
Speaker 3:I I saw more turn out there than an Easter service for the church. So it's a problem in the church. But I will say this, though, whatever context that I think you develop the mentoring relationship from. So whether it's, you know, a a youth group, whether it's a neighbor, you know, someone a family friend, a young sibling, whatever it is, I think sticking with what brought you guys together. So and that may not be what keep you.
Speaker 3:You know, organic things can flow from just relationship and conversation. But I think the unique struggle that that brought Julie and I together and really which led to reaching youth and a lot of the the the missional aspects of what God put on my heart. You know? Because there wasn't there wasn't, like, a defined ministry as I was starting to leave seminary and, you know, things didn't work out the way I thought they would. But this kind of this kind of happened.
Speaker 3:And that's also a, I think, a check on me, a reminder on me that you don't know what God's really actually doing through the mentor as well. So you think that, well, you know, in this season of life, I'm doing this. With Julian, I think it was, a single man. I don't have a family. I don't have a wife.
Speaker 3:I don't have their certain things that I probably would have gone to the level and the depth of building that that kind of relationship. And even though you don't have to be single, you don't have to have the time because I had so much stuff going on so much and they're in, of course, they're younger in school. They're trying to figure out their life to what I think it was is it was the the fact that I think he really had the gospel and the fact that he was really trying to get free from those those those addictions. In the fact that where I was at the timing in the season, the level of intensity of that mentoring relationship and the fruit that bore from that probably was just something. It was one of his God inspired.
Speaker 3:It was God led, but I don't think I coulda had that with any other person I was mentoring. And I don't and I think it's okay. Because maybe down the road, I might only be able to just meet someone for coffee once a week. And you know what? That's still important.
Speaker 3:But what I got to have in this season, I think, radically transformed his life. Mine opened up totally new possibilities. And, yeah, now I'm, you know, I know how to ride a skateboard now. I never was able to do that before. I never took risks like that because, I I wouldn't even take the risk of just just even just be like, hey, you know, can I take your son out of town for the weekend to this men's conference, you know, while covid's about to hit its Heyday and yet that so I think there's a there's a there's a point where we kind of have to stop letting those those those things hold us back from being able to invest in the next generation?
Speaker 3:So whatever I've seen walls come down, I didn't think we're gonna be able to get access to these young kids in the skatepark that we're gonna boo us off. We didn't have some of that, by the way, but we we got in there. And we didn't let the church, we didn't let these people kind of tell us what we can and can't do. Not to be rebellious, but it's just, I, I think I kind of got tired of people not actually taking steps. And I, and I had to do this a lot on my own.
Speaker 3:I had to fund it on my own. I had to do a lot of things. I didn't get the support I thought I would get from people. But in, like, in the long run, I think in the grand scheme of things, it is better when you can do it in community and have some support there. So, you know, that was my last piece of advice, but I do gotta I do gotta run-in a few minutes.
Speaker 3:So any any any last minute questions you got?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Final 10% on the phone?
Speaker 2:Yeah. This is really good. Thank you for, speaking. Let me just hit on the last question. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:So I I love the emphasis of mentoring in the context that the youth is comfortable with. Yeah. You I mean, that's just attractive to me, like, to be at the skate park, and that's that's the context for your mentoring. So if you you could just unpack what why you've seen that to be helpful, like, where they are, where they live, and and where they already feel like they belong, that's
Speaker 3:the place to do it. Yeah. You know, honestly, I I never really put, like 2 and 2 together about the whole skating thing. I knew he skate. I knew he did hip hop.
Speaker 3:I knew a bunch of stuff. Like, it was almost like, I don't know. I think really kind of God downloaded that into my brain because I mean, at the time I was just like, you know, what if like, what if we could I still think we can do a second week. I want to like, I I'm telling you big picture stuff. I want to go like global and go to all these skate parks around the world with Julian or even in the States and just like do, like, a more professional level documentary because it's ripe.
Speaker 3:They're outside. It's a public space. You have access. If you if you have some kind of credibility, if you come off, like, you're just not there because they might think you're a cop. You know, it's like I've we've had that a few times or it's like, you know, you hear them like whistle and, you know, they're kind of doing their little things
Speaker 2:because you're sharing the 10 Commandments. That's why I think you're a cop.
Speaker 3:I don't know. But it's like it cops can't skate. So I'm learning how to skate. That's that, you know, but it's the thing is, is I didn't I thought a lot of it is just not putting limits on what God can do through, you know, your experience. I mean, if you don't doubt what those ideas because I'm telling you when I didn't let the external circumstances prevent Julian and I from stepping into an uncomfortable situation, and we both knew it was at stake, that's when I think God shows up in pretty amazing ways.
Speaker 3:And to date, the last 3 or 4 months we've gone out there, we're probably gonna, do some more stuff in the future, whenever he gets back in town. But we had never been told that we can't share. We we had several young people come up and want to know more. And I think the whole point of it isn't it was missional. It was evangelical.
Speaker 3:It was meant to really drop seeds and to get people even just a basic a basic reality check on, like, hey, it's not just about what's in front of you. There's so much more in life that's going on. And I think it was just it was incredible experience. I I hope that we get to do it again or do something that's even just, you know, not just bigger, but just something that's way more impactful, you know? So, yeah, definitely, if you wanna follow the journey, you gotta we we have a trailer up there.
Speaker 3:The movie's gonna drop sometime in summer. I'm already kind of doing some last minute tweaks. I had some feedback initially, but, yeah, you know, that I hope just the video alone hits the right ears where people realize, hey, like, there's the gospel's moving, and it's moving to another generation in ways that, you know, maybe maybe were dormant or maybe kind of overlooked. And it was just an opportunity because of the climate that we're in. You know, we're not the 1st missionaries that go out to skate parks.
Speaker 3:There's tons of organizations out there that have tried to be in the space. Youth ministries have tried to be in the space. But I think that what we got to do in our little space in this time is is really what is what made the difference.
Speaker 2:Jason, really appreciate you, man. That was awesome. So thanks for sharing.
Speaker 3:I appreciate what you guys are doing, dude. It's incredible. I I love I love what, you know, what you guys have been able to do. I continue to do Lord's work, man. I I I believe in the I say this all the time for our ministry, like, you know, it's there is power behind biblical mentorship.
Speaker 3:Like, mentorship is a real discipleship system, and it's it's it's viable. I am confident that divinity school seminaries will have some field or venue. I know, like, church leaders are already starting to build programs for mentorship. They're talking about it. So it it connects.
Speaker 3:It connects. It's it's not something that people are just like, I don't wanna be discipled, or I don't want you to to evangelize me. Like mentorship, it's just, it's cool. It's cool and it works. And there there's powerful impact behind it.
Speaker 3:So continue to fight the good fight of faith.
Speaker 2:So Amen. Alright, guys. Appreciate you, brother.