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Every week, healthcare VCs and Jumpstart Health Investors co-founders Vic Gatto and Marcus Whitney review and unpack the happenings in US Healthcare, finance, technology and policy. With a firm belief that our healthcare system is doomed without entrepreneurship, they work through the mud to find the jewels, highlight headwinds and tailwinds, and bring on the smartest guests to fill in the gaps.
Marcus: If you enjoy this content, please
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Your feedback will greatly impact
our ability to reach more people.
Thank you.
Vic: Alright man, how you doing?
I'm good.
Holiday season.
Uh.
Trying to figure out what to get people.
Marcus: Yeah.
Yeah.
I only have to get a couple, but,
uh, I just gotta figure it out.
You are ahead of me.
Um, this is like so much going on
right now that I am not gonna be buying
anything until the Monday of the week.
Yeah.
So, um, we got a lot to cover.
It is a big.
Week, uh, in Fed Land.
So let's go ahead and dig in.
Starting with the fact that the Fed
did cut rates 25 basis points and is
saying that they may be done for now,
which to me doesn't really matter.
Sounds like they're a lame duck.
Vic: Yeah, he's a lame duck.
And he also is always trying to.
Sort of counteract the policy by
saying, well, on the other hand this,
on the other hand that, I mean that's
just sort of his style now, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm kind of tired of it.
I'm ready for a new one.
Yeah, it change.
Agree.
But the Fed has three story.
The whole economy is fed stories
today with three different stories.
Okay.
Marcus: If this is fact, the last.
Rate cut.
I just want to say he inherited Zer.
Vic: Yeah.
Marcus: Post COVID.
Did all the stimulus, did all the
buying on the balance sheet, right?
Mm-hmm.
Did the money during the crisis?
During the crisis, did the money
printing, then inflation addressed that
with one of the fastest rate hikes.
Yeah.
In the history of up to fed five and a
half, up to five and a half, 5, 7, 5.
And now has steadily eased it down
to a level of three and a half, 3.75.
Vic: That's right.
Marcus: Right.
That's, that's sort of.
That's where we are.
That's where we are.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the next story is about jobs numbers.
So Fed Chair Journal Powell says the
US may be drastically overstating
jobs, numbers, the country could
be losing 20,000 jobs a month.
Powell said a concern that was part
of the decision to cut interest
rates is the Wall Street Journal.
Vic: No kidding.
We, it's been public widely.
The PS is not doing a good job.
Uh, you know, thanks for coming out.
Um, yes, it, uh, BLS is, we talked about
it, I think at the last, the last show.
I'm not sure it is 20,000
do, uh, jobs a month.
Like Powell's saying, I think it's
systematically incorrect, but I think
on the way up when we're creating
jobs, I think it is under counting and
then on the way down as we're shedding
jobs, I think it's over counting.
But he's saying that, you know,
one part of the US government, the
Fed doesn't trust what the other
part of the government's doing.
That's a concern for power.
No shit.
It's a concern.
Right, right, right,
Marcus: right.
I mean, but what, what does it mean that
we have a fed, and this is a bit of a
rhetorical question, but what does it
mean that we have a fed chair that is
saying that has always been data driven?
That is saying he doesn't know
that he trusts the numbers.
I mean, what level of
dysfunction have we arrived at?
Yeah.
In the relationship between
the Federal Reserve and the
United States government that.
Vic: Is at a new high of dysfunction
or new low of dysfunction, I think
seems pretty significant, right?
Yeah.
And then the other thing I would say
is that the Fed has several thousand
statisticians economists, data
collectors that work for the Fed.
And so if he wants to do some other
run, some other analysis, he has
thousands of people that can do that.
Right.
And so I, I don't, I don't
have a lot of sympathy for,
for Powell's fogginess, right.
I mean, right.
Marcus: He should fix
Vic: it.
Marcus: So let's go to the third story.
The Fed to resume net asset purchases
with 40 billion in securities this month.
Didn't they just finish?
They finished last week.
Yeah.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Last week they just got
done bringing it down.
Why are they.
Gonna resume so quickly.
What, what happened?
Because the repo
Vic: fails.
So, so it's too wonky, but
No, no, there's, but let's,
Marcus: let's talk through it.
Let's see if we can de
wonk it for a second.
Okay.
So explain it to me.
Vic: So the repo market mm-hmm.
Is a market where banks
can borrow money overnight.
Right.
And that's payback the next day.
Right.
And then the, something called
a fail, which means like they.
Don't have the collateral they need.
Okay?
And so that's a sign of
weakness in the banking system.
That is a red flag to the Fed, right?
Because if banks are failing to
meet their repo commitments and the
Fed has to step in and help them,
that's not a good thing, right?
And so that has been trending
up in a worrisome way such that
the Fed, what they're saying is.
Don't worry, it's not
gonna be stimulative.
Even though they have said forever that
quantitative easing is stimulative,
we're just fixing this little,
um, blip here, blip in the repo
market, and don't worry about it.
It'll be fine.
Marcus: So doesn't that mean that
they attempted to back off of
everything and when they did, it
facilitated a stress test of the banks?
Across the country.
And what they found out when they tried
to do that is they actually can't do that.
And, and they have to maintain
their balance sheet at a higher
level to keep the banks functioning.
Yeah, because there's, there's,
there's a collateral quality issue.
Vic: Right,
Marcus: right.
Vic: Yeah.
I mean, so they, they would do it.
What I think you're saying,
just to rephrase, make sure
I'm following, is it Yeah.
They were doing tightening,
meaning they were, yes.
They were, uh, pulling the
liquidity out of the market,
Marcus: pulling liquidity outta
the market and selling off
Vic: the balance sheet.
And that was intentional to Yes.
To make the balance sheet smaller, to
try to get back to pre pandemic Right.
Levels.
Right.
Which they're never gonna do,
but at least, but chew it down.
But they tried, they
tried to get back there.
Yeah.
And they, they said they were
finished last week, right.
With that.
Yep.
I remember reading that.
And now they're saying that for the
past few months they've had this
repo problem and so they're going to.
Provide liquidity to the market,
which is, you know, the opposite
of what they've been doing.
If you were not running a big federal
agency, I think you would just have
stopped doing the tightening in
September when these started happening.
Like, why would you keep going?
So in the same press conference.
Okay, he, he said, we're doing one cut.
But we are confident that it's over.
And then he went on to say that he has no
visibility to the jobs market and thinks
that's the numbers are inaccurate when
the jobs mandate is half of their mandate.
Right.
And then he announced that they were
beginning to do qualitative easing.
Okay.
So, I mean, those three statements,
each of them would be a big
announcement, but they don't fit
with each other like it doesn't.
It is not totally coherent.
So I don't know.
And I think the economy is weak,
as have I said for a long time.
I think jobs are much more
dire than inflation is.
But, you know, Jerome Brown's
not SQB, so I dunno that
that's what came out yesterday.
Okay.
All, all three things.
Okay.
Uh, that's, that's a lot.
Marcus: That's, that's
actually quite a lot.
Yeah.
Vic: Yeah.
And two of them, I mean, both are easing.
And then, then there's just like
a comment of how bad the date is.
Marcus: Yeah.
So, uh, so I just want to Yeah.
Just summarize for you,
I wanna summarize, right.
So the first story is they
did the quarter point cut.
That's probably not as important
as the fact that there were
three dissenters on that vote.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that's the worst from
a dissenter count that Powells had
Vic: period.
On that story.
They have it back 20 years, so
we can look at it if you want.
Oh, okay.
But, but yes, it's,
it's, it's significant.
The story is.
There were a lot of dissenters and it
hasn't happened since, I don't know
when, 2018 or something like that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Marcus: So the FOMC quite, yes.
Quite, uh, you know, split.
Split.
Okay.
That's, that's the first story.
Second story is that the
Fed does not trust the.
LS numbers.
Yes.
And the third story is the Fed tried to
do quantitative tightening and it ended
up unintentionally facilitating a stress
test that the banking ecosystem failed
and they had to a week later resume.
Qe.
Yes, that's right.
Vic: That's not a good week for the Fed.
That's not a good week for the
Marcus: Fed.
Vic: No, that's correct.
It's, it's not instilling confidence.
No, no, no, no, no.
In any way.
No, no.
Marcus: That is, uh, you know, it's one
of those things where like the Fed is such
a, like, uh, esoteric topic that I think
the average American and probably even the
average listener is kinda like, why these
guys talk about the Fed all the time.
Right.
But it's like, it's our central bank.
Vic: Yeah.
Like, like it's, it really affects.
Almost everything in the economy.
Uhhuh
Marcus: Uhhuh.
Yeah.
That that's not, that's not great.
Alright, let's move on.
Dym launches out of stealth with
platform for cell gene therapy benefits.
So is this a VC store?
Yes.
The company's making a debut.
It's a fresh company by a $20
million series, A funding round
that it intends to use to further
enhance platform development.
Vic: Yeah, so Frisk Cresty led the deal.
It's much deeper science than they
usually do, so it's cell gene therapy.
I, I'm really excited about selling G
Therapy in general, but I don't know this
company, so, or really much about it.
Marcus: Okay.
General Catalyst is a $50
million round to expand Radial's
Interventional Psychiatry Network.
Um, New York City based radial announced
that, that it raised $50 million.
Series A. Uh, who's in this, uh, besides
General Catalyst, Solari, capital JSL
Health Capital Founder Collective.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Box Group, scrub Capital.
Decent group around the table.
50 million.
Good size round.
Yeah.
Uh, what do you think about this one?
Vic: Yeah.
So the transcranial magnetic,
uh, stimulation TMS Yeah.
Is really an up and coming treatment.
Starting to pick up.
Yeah.
Starting to pick up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just looking at another
deal around related to this.
I think there's a lot of promise in the,
in the technology in general, and they're
bringing it out to market more broadly.
So, I mean, there's different,
there's different ways to deliver it.
It's had a lot of effect.
A good effect.
So
Marcus: Angel Eye Health raises
$9 million series C to bring
AI driven insights to the nicu.
This is a local deal as well.
Yeah, so a couple of, uh,
Nashville deals in here.
Uh, this is a $9 million series C uh,
funding around led by Mountain Group
partners with strategic investment
from Nationwide Children's Hospital
and a debt facility from Live Oak Bank.
Vic: Yeah, so this is a
really interesting deal.
It's, uh, so it's a, it's a C round.
And Angel Eye has a camera video
system that you can bring your NICU
baby home earlier than otherwise.
Yeah.
'cause you're able to, to allow the,
the physicians and nurses to be able
to, to see in the home and they're now
taking that position and then applying
AI to it to, to deliver more effective.
More effective care.
So pretty interesting that
they're, they're sort of
leveraging their existing platform.
Uh, we know several of the people there.
I don't know the details of it.
It's pretty interesting sort of space.
Good opportunity to
help a lot of families.
Marcus: Yeah.
I mean, it's a small series C but I think
the debt facility from Live Oak Bank
actually is pretty important to, to note
because, um, you know, that's a, uh,
live Oak is a, a, a strong bank mm-hmm.
In the, um, revenue,
um, uh, based financing.
Space, um, as well as SBA a. Right.
And so they, they underwrote it and
clearly like, this business is a going
concern, generating revenue, otherwise
they wouldn't Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Release the debt facility.
So, um, yeah.
So they're, they're, they're, um,
that basically says like, this,
this business is like, for real.
It's a real business.
Yeah.
Vic: Yeah.
It's a, it's a good business.
Before the AI.
Tilt They, right.
They're in 300 hospitals or something.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I think there's a good opportunity
to bring AI to, to bear here.
Marcus: Okay.
Origin Therapy is announcing a $2.6
billion round led by distributed ventures.
The link here is from, uh, LinkedIn.
H How, how did you end up seeing this one?
Vic: Yeah, so I saw this from.
Axios.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
And then I couldn't access the story.
Got it.
So they gave a teaser.
Uhhuh Uhhuh.
And so then I tried to find know store.
It was a pro like super
expensive package jacket.
Right, exactly.
So thanks Axios.
But it caught my attention 'cause I
have an investment in the same space.
So pediatric, uh, developmental.
Like, uh, pt, ot, occupational therapy.
Speech therapy is, unfortunately,
we have a real shortage across the
country in clinicians, and so there's
a long wait list and if, if you have
a six month old that needs help, a
one year wait list just does not work.
Right?
Right.
So, so this is a competitor to our
investment, uh, but it's a huge space and.
Obviously I'm biased.
I like our strategy better, but, but
I'm, I'm happy to see origin come in.
'cause we, we, you, a
lot of kids need help.
Marcus: Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Parallel a $20 million series B raised
after students achieve 98% IEP goal
success, Val Spring capital led the round
with participation from existing investor.
Rethink impacts this,
this interesting one.
Why, why did you bring this one in?
Vic: I, I'm really
interested in sort of is, is
Marcus: this behavioral
health for children?
It's
Vic: behavioral health.
Health using telehealth.
Okay.
And other sort of technology
tools that are, you know, not
earth shaky, new crazy AI things.
Sure.
Just like getting support, getting
help to the kids that need it
and they're having good results.
Marcus: I mean, this is a really,
really big series B round.
Yeah.
So they, they, they must be
doing more than just having good
results, but also, you know.
Having some pretty big penetration,
um, earlier rounds had, uh,
tiger Global in involved.
Mm-hmm.
So I wonder how far back that
round went, whether it was part
of, you know, the craziness Yeah.
Of the post pandemic era.
Uh, but that's interesting.
You know, feel, feels like we, I
mean, we, we've done investments
on the foundry side, you know?
Mm-hmm.
For, yeah.
We have a decent amount of,
Vic: uh, IOP, I think it's
called Uhhuh, which is at home.
Pretty, you know, it's sort of in
between that take your teenager
and send them away for 12 weeks.
Yep.
Versus the once a week therapy.
IOP's in the middle.
It's very, you know,
intensive but outpatient.
Marcus: Yep.
Our terra clinch is 65 million
in funding to build out AI
agents for patient communication.
Vic: Yeah, so this is sort of
a continuation of the theme.
There's a lot of agents and every
day, more and more agents coming out,
and patient communication I think
is a good opportunity where there's.
There's a lot of patients that just
need help with pretty straightforward
things, but it's, there's a lot
of complexity in our healthcare
system, so I think agents have a good
opportunity to help in this space.
Marcus: Yeah.
And agents are, uh, I think starting to.
Get more mature from a
technical perspective.
Um, quite a bit has come out over
the course of the last two weeks.
You know, I'm mostly sort of
watching Anthropic right now.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I think the combination,
like if you just look at
Anthropic for example, right?
The combination of, um.
The, the build out of Claude skills.
Yeah.
Um, which is, which really is, is a
powerful way to take this, you know,
uh, stochastic technology, which is
LLMs and make them more deterministic.
Yeah.
By putting these repeatable
composable code blocks in place
that now you know, you're, you're
making LLMs that are general.
Intelligence much more specific
in their intelligence, right?
'cause they have, they, they
pull intelligence off the shelf
that like is very predictable.
Um, and then Anthropic has now
wrapped all of that with an SDK
specifically for agents, right?
So I feel like six to 12 months
ago, agents were just like PR speak.
Mm-hmm.
And now we're starting to actually see
how you technically can reliably deliver
on the promise of an agent, which is.
As a, as a vc, it's exciting because now
I feel like when someone says agent, I
can pressure test what they're doing.
Right.
It's like at least we have
the anthropic model for that.
I, I feel like it's, yeah.
Google has their own, it's trying to take
Vic: agents more seriously.
Yeah.
Google has their own suite.
Right.
But, but yes.
It's the same thing.
Like they're sort of
getting more standardized.
Yeah.
So that you can compare one agent to
another and learn from each other.
There's a lot of.
Leapfrogging of technologies, health,
philosophy, who we're, you know,
we're friends with is in this deal.
So I think it's an
interesting deal to watch.
Marcus: Yeah.
And I, I guess it's something I wanna
make sure that we just sort of frame
for our listeners, because one thing I'm
noticing is, you know, a narrative comes
out about AI and then it becomes something
that people generally understand.
Let's take something like
hallucination, right?
Mm-hmm.
And then people just kind of
say, oh, hallucination though.
Hallucination and like.
Like, do you think that the people
who are working on this stuff aren't,
aren't working on solving that?
Right.
You know what I mean?
Right.
And, and even if you can't
solve it at the core transformer
level, because fundamentally
it's a, it's a prediction engine.
Mm-hmm.
There are all sorts of ways to
constrict the prediction engine, right.
In terms of what it uses
to get the job done.
Right.
And those.
Things that the tools it uses, uh,
can be much more deterministic.
Right.
And so you, you, you start to sort
of compress the surface area for
hallucination through some of these old
school computer programming techniques.
These, this is just old
school comp size stuff.
Yeah.
You know, composable libraries.
Right, right.
You know?
Vic: Yeah.
So, I mean, it might make
sense to define an agent.
So how, how would you define an agent or,
I have a. A thing I've been using, but I
don't know, I don't know that there is a
Marcus: universal one, but yeah, it's
not that the time don't, yeah, I don't
know that there is a universal one,
but I think what, what I've seen people
define agents as is basically artificial
intelligence, generally powered by
LLMs, um, that can handle complex work
tasks, you know, so like not just a
single work test, but like a, a, a,
a complex work task that's made up of
many smaller tasks that, that sort of.
Uh, replaces what a human
was previously doing mm-hmm.
In the workplace.
Vic: See, I, I would've said it,
it, yes, an LM but it has a goal.
Like, there's, like, okay, it has a
task and a goal or set of priorities.
Okay.
And then it has a. Tools
that it has access to.
Okay.
And I mean, I, I mean, I think we're, so
you sort of combine those things together.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's kind of just different
ways to say the same thing.
Different ways to say the same thing.
Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah.
Okay.
Are we, we're in the policy policy,
uh, that was a pretty strong
V run investments this week.
Um, a lot of investments,
good size investments.
Mm-hmm.
That's actually kind of good, right?
I mean, I mean, it feels
like things are flowing.
Um, yeah.
In the
Vic: IPO market we didn't talk about,
but the IPO market's getting geared up.
I think SpaceX is gonna go public.
Hmm.
Which would be, I mean.
You know, Elon's a big, big ego, but
he wants to do the biggest IPO ever,
which in order to be at Aramco will
have to be, I think, one and a half
trillion and raise over $29 billion.
So he's trying to raise
30 at one and a half.
But, but they have starlink, I
mean, they have a lot of, uh.
People that I think
would buy an IPO there.
So
Marcus: yeah, I think
you're probably right.
Uh, alright.
Jumping into policy, Senate
health bills fail as exchange
subsidy, expiration nears.
I can't say I'm that
Vic: surprised at this.
No, I mean, no.
The idea that there were gonna be a
enough Republican senators to come over
and support the democratic position
or that, that the Republicans would
be able to get their, um, kind of.
HSA version pushed through.
They're just, they're just dysfunctional.
They can't agree on anything.
Yeah.
So they both had their votes.
Neither one passed.
I think three or four Republicans
came over the Democrats, so they,
you know, they got, they got the most
votes with like 52, but you need 60.
Marcus: Yeah.
So nothing's gonna happen.
The, the, the incentives
to be bipartisan are.
Absent.
Absent.
Yeah, absent for sure.
HCA tenant and UHS all receive FTC
letter over non-compete agreements.
Vic: Yeah.
The FTC is going after health
systems to free doctors from the
non-compete, non-compete agreements.
Marcus: This feels like, uh,
a throwback to Trump won.
You know, Trump won Yes.
Fundamental premise on healthcare,
you know, prior to RFK Junior
was, um, competitiveness.
You know, and it feels like, it
feels like we're starting to kind
of see that come back now, right?
Vic: Yeah.
In in kind of free markets.
Yeah.
Free, yeah.
Free
Marcus: markets.
No, no, no, no monopolies.
No lockups.
Right, right, right.
It's, uh, something to watch.
'cause that's a, that's a,
that's a big lever, right?
That those, uh, those organizations
have, I mean, if they have, if
they have to start, you know,
spending a lot of time and energy
on retaining and, and, and, yeah.
And that's, that's.
I mean, a, it's chaotic.
Right.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Because it, it, it just, uh, takes
away from the controlling factor.
Mm-hmm.
The control factor is, is pretty strong.
Um, and it just spend takes a
lot of energy that they would
typically put into other Right.
Really high, high functioning
operational models.
Right.
Vic: Yeah.
And it's not that health systems
have so much money that they're
just floating in money and, and
not giving it to the doctors.
I think there's a lot of.
Pressure all around on health systems.
Yeah.
Marcus: Yeah.
Agree.
Texas files an antitrust suit
against Epic over health data.
So this is, uh, Ken Paxton,
very active attorney.
Mm-hmm.
Attorney General outta Texas, accusing the
healthcare software company of leveraging
his control over patient medical records
to maintain dominance in the market.
Vic: I've learned from Emily, you know,
who comes on to help us with policy stuff
that a lot of times these, uh, intertrust
things bubble up through the states.
And so it caught my attention
because I think, uh.
Texas is pretty influential on in the
Republican side and if they get a second
state, it, it, I think they could get
some momentum, but Epic doesn't have
a lot of fans that aren't, you know,
big epic users and so there's plenty of
people that would like to, to say that
they're not being competitive, which
I think there's a lot to argue for.
Marcus: Yeah.
For sure.
Okay.
What MedTech firms can learn from.
Whoops, warning letter.
An FDA warning letter about the wearables
company's blood pressure feature
raises questions about the blurring
lines between MedTech and wellness.
So, uh, this is MedTech dive, and I
do think this is interesting, right?
Because it feels a little
bit like a mixed signal.
RFK Junior was walking around saying every
American should have a a, a wearable.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I think we would've thought that
that would've translated to the FDA
being more wearable friendly, but now.
We're sending out warning letters.
This, this doesn't quite rhyme with what
I thought Maha was gonna be delivering.
So like what's, what's the story here?
Vic: I mean, I guess it depends on
which side you're on, but the FDA is
wearable friendly and I think if you
tell a patient that you're recording
their blood pressure has to be right.
And so they were not satisfied.
And I, I haven't looked at the data,
but they weren't satisfied that the.
Blood pressure insights were
accurate enough and they
didn't, they didn't approve it.
And what I found interesting is not,
not really that, I mean there there's
been hundreds of companies that try
to bring something to market and if to
say is not, not ready yet, you know,
we have in my portfolio have those.
But what is interesting
is they are fighting back.
They're, they're just refusing to stop.
They're still selling it.
I haven't, I haven't seen that before.
I don't, I don't know
how they can do that or.
I mean, I guess the FDA
doesn't have a law enough.
Can they
Marcus: put a, can they put some
kind of disclaimer in the message
in the app or something like that?
Like, like what?
They could, but they're not,
Vic: I mean, it, and it, it, it feels
like a next step from the HIMSS and
hers, you know, like competing with
GLP ones by, um, getting around the
law in the FDA, sort of allowing them
to, so, you know, the whoop person said
they disagree with the FDA's decision.
Every company I've ever been part of
that that didn't get something approved.
The FA always disagrees with the decision.
I mean that, but them
refusing to back down.
I ha I have haven't seen before.
Marcus: Yeah.
It's interesting.
It's interesting, you know,
and I mean, it could be.
That they are going to force HHS not just
the FDA, but HHS to reckon with their
positioning around the need for wearables.
Yeah.
I mean, whoop whoop is,
you know, whoop and Aura.
I mean, that those are the top two Yeah.
Wearables out there, right?
I mean, and, and the Apple
Watch, of course, right?
I mean, so those are
kind of the top three.
Um, and so I think Whoop is just testing
the, they're pressure testing, right?
And also, I mean, we've
talked about how the FDA.
Is a little, they have no enforcement.
Well, no, it's not so much that
they have no enforcement, but
they, they've had challenges
within the broader HHS ecosystem.
Yeah.
You know, um, and so it, it could,
this could be a little bit of
strategy just to kind of like really
see be before I turn this off.
Vic: Yeah.
Marcus: Let me see whether or not like.
You're gonna be able to make me
turn it off, or if RFK is gonna
make you back down, like, you know.
Yeah.
CMS targets chronic care, nutrition
and MAHA Medicare payment model.
Okay.
Yeah.
So
Vic: this, this is a new program.
Anyone can apply to it.
Okay.
There's about a hundred million
dollars to support experiments.
You know, winning applicants will get
$3 million spread out over three years.
They really, it's really nutrition
or other health and wellness
things to treat chronic disease.
And they're looking for applications.
Yeah.
See, but, but, but this
is what I'm talking about,
Marcus: right?
Yeah.
I mean, like,
Vic: like
Marcus: this is, this is literally right
Vic: in conflict, right.
So whoop could apply for this.
Right,
Marcus: right, right.
Yeah.
That's our point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's what's happening.
I, I think the whoop CEO is,
is, is uh, playing a little game
theory and he's just like, Hmm.
I'm, I'm gonna make RFK explain what he
means when he says, uh, you know, we want
wearables everywhere, but he doesn't want
whoop to continue to advance in, you know,
helping people get the data they need.
I, I think, I think
that's the, that's the,
Vic: yeah.
I think it's also related to hims
flaunting, you know, just going
directly against the FDA and IP
law and getting away with it.
Yeah.
Where Whoop is.
Maybe it's probably both end.
Like they're seeing like the
wearable thing has a lot of momentum.
Yeah.
And we can, we can resist this and
just fight back with public opinion.
Yep.
And our pat, our, our users like it.
Not that the FDA should care
about that, but they do.
Marcus: CVS Health Boosts guidance,
expects momentum to continue.
The healthcare Giant says it is offering
a new AI driven platform that aims to
bring its various services into one app.
Vic: Yeah.
So we have two stories from CVS.
They had a big week, they had earnings
that they, they, you know, boost
guidance, they stock did well and
they announced this, uh, patient
engagement using AI to pull in all
the different services they offer.
They have a lot of, lot of health
and wellness services, including
Aetna, you know, the payer side.
So they, they seem to be, um,
coming back into being much more
assertive, which is good to see.
All the payers were sort of suffering
for a little while, and it's good
to see CVS at least come back.
So yeah.
Marcus: Minnesota positions
to seize control of troubled
Vic: UCare.
Ooh.
Yeah.
So UCare is out.
They are winding on operations.
Wow.
And selling.
Marcus: Wow.
I, I miss this aspects
Vic: of the business to Medica,
which is their in-state rival.
Okay.
And it's like going into whatever, I don't
know that it's really bankruptcy for a
payer, but, but that equivalent of that.
So the state is sort of taking over.
What,
Marcus: what
Vic: are,
Marcus: what are their primary,
their Medicare advantage.
Medicare Advantage.
Yeah.
Ooh.
Maybe the first of many.
Vic: Yeah, that's right.
Maybe the,
Marcus: maybe the
Vic: first of many.
Right.
I mean, obviously Minnesota
is a great payer market.
It's also a little bit of a
generous payer market, I'd say.
Okay.
And so I think they had, I
mean, it didn't, it didn't work.
They had too many benefits.
And the MLRs too, way too high.
Mm-hmm.
They can't keep going, man.
Marcus: I, yeah, I mean, if you
don't have a deep balance sheet
Vic: Yeah.
Marcus: You can't take too many years
of this, of this, uh, you know, of,
of these, this margin compression.
Yeah.
Vic: Right.
I mean, you really can't.
They, and, uh, they also a Remos
biggest customer, which is not,
that's how I knew about the story.
Oh, ahead of time.
So that, that's not good for us.
But
Marcus: major weight loss and knee pain
relief seen with new Eli Lilly drug, the
maker of Zet bound reported results from
a study of ide, uh, which targets three
hormones in the body and led to much
more weight loss than any approved drug.
Vic: Yeah, so this is a, uh, we're
starting to see new types, new flavors,
new ways to affect weight loss.
And Lily's been leading
it from the beginning.
Uh, there's two stories here about that.
So, but in this case, they're, they're
talking about knee pain relief, which,
you know, is, I think probably, I
was gonna pick a quote, I shouldn't
pick a percent, but a significant
number of knee replacements would
not need to be done if the, if the
patient would lose 50 pounds mm-hmm.
Or lose some weight.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
It's a pretty interesting use case.
Marcus: Pfizer's appetite for
more obesity meds leads to
$150 million deal for oral glp.
One drug from China.
Vic: Yeah, so they licensed
this once a day pill from China.
It's shown early phase one
testing to be very effective, but.
It's not clear how translatable
that'll be to later phases or approval.
Marcus: Hmm.
JP Morgan taps Solana for galaxy's
tokenized corporate bond issuance.
JP Morgan in this instance is acting
as the, the broker banker, right?
Yes.
Right.
Um, galaxy is the actual entity,
uh, galaxy Digital Holdings.
And, uh,
Vic: they're raising money.
They, they issued the
bond, they raised money.
They issued, they issued
Marcus: a bond.
Uh, they issued the bond on the Solana.
Blockchain and they are, uh,
and they sold it using USDC?
Vic: Yes.
To Franklin.
Templeton and Coinbase.
Okay.
Okay.
And it's a, I think it's, I
believe it's the first one in
the US so that's interesting.
I think that's partially
why Coinbase bought it.
Probably.
Um, that's my editorial, but I
think there's gonna be a lot more.
That occur on various blockchains.
Solana's a good one.
So just again, one to watch.
And then later on down the story,
they, they go on to talk about
international, where Hong Kong
is, is leading the international
issuance of bonds on blockchain.
So this isn't the first one globally,
but it's the first one in the us
Marcus: So Solana breakpoint
is happening right now.
I don't know if you knew that.
No, that's their big annual conference.
That's probably why they Yeah.
Did this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's happening right now.
Um, it's in Abu Dhabi.
This year.
Um, and one of the big storylines is just
how much USDC, um, stablecoin mm-hmm.
Throughput is happening on Solana,
and it's something like 6% of all U
USDC throughput's happening on Solana.
So they've, they've got more than Tether.
So Tethers not on Solana.
Well, tethers, uh, USDT.
It's a different coin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But they, they could
Vic: be on Salona too.
Marcus: Sure.
Right?
Sure.
Yep.
Okay.
Yep, yep, yep.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
But, uh, but they're,
Salona has got a lot of.
Stable coin transaction volume right now.
Like a lot.
Vic: Well, is it right to say that
Solana was created to be Yeah.
This is what it's for a very
effective transactional blockchain.
This is literally what it's for.
Right?
Right.
It's it's
Marcus: literally for market structure.
Yeah.
Right.
You know what I mean?
So like obviously you can do
your like corporate bonds,
that's kind of an easy one.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, we we're talking about
whether or not we can ever get,
you know, public stocks on there.
Right, right.
But no, Solana is for market structure.
Vic: Yeah.
Marcus: That's what it's for, you know.
Real world assets, et cetera.
Mm-hmm.
Coinbase expands reach of stable
coin based AI agents, payment tools.
This is the X 4 0 2 mm-hmm.
Protocol, which was just an
old micropayment protocol.
Yeah.
Back from the early days of hcp.
Vic: It's HTT P Stack, I think.
Marcus: Yeah.
Right.
I mean, but, but it was a placeholder.
It was never, it was never
actualized because we didn't,
we never have had micropayments.
Right.
Uh, and so it's, it's, uh, it's
amazing that 20 plus years later, yeah.
Uh, it, well, it's pretty interesting.
Almost, well, maybe 30 years later
Vic: means 93, 94.
Yes.
Yeah.
30 years later.
Yeah.
Marcus: 30 years later, uh, this
protocol finally finds this retrofit
Vic: payments into that standard
where there's already like, brilliant
there, which is brilliant, right?
Yeah.
That's why I'm paying attention to this.
I think it's gonna take off.
I mean, it's, it's very.
Cheap.
I mean, even approaching free.
Mm-hmm.
And you can do very small payments.
Marcus: Yep.
Gemini wins, CFTC approval for prediction
market may expand into crypto futures
options And perps are you got, you got
a bunch of, uh, web, Web3 stories here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's great.
Okay.
Um, so, so the CFTC is really.
Um, I, I think even more than
the SEC, uh, leading in mm-hmm.
In, you know, growing adoption for crypto.
Yes.
And, and, and creating regulatory clarity.
Um, lots of strong stuff.
And the prediction market
space is like so hot right now.
Yes.
I mean, Calci and, and poly market
is just kind of like if you listen
to crypto podcast like I do.
Yeah.
I feel like something, like a third of
the conversations are about Kaci and Yeah.
Poly market now.
Vic: Yeah.
Did you see the insider trading thing on?
Yeah.
Ka Yeah.
I think it was Cal. One of them.
Well, it might have, might have been
market, been, market might've been poly
market, but people are talking about it.
But prediction markets are
inherently an insider trading thing.
Yes.
I mean, it's, it's the
wisdom of the crowd.
So like people always have animation,
that's sort of the point of it.
Right?
Right.
Um, so it, I don't know.
I mean, people are frustrated
'cause someone, well now,
Marcus: now they're around long enough
that people understand they're not a
hundred percent quote unquote fair.
Right.
You know what I mean?
They're, they're not fair.
No.
No.
They've never been fair.
No, no.
And also like stop fooling yourself.
It's gambling.
Yes.
You know what I mean?
Like that's the other thing.
It's gambling.
The house always wins.
In this case, the house is the
person with the inside information.
Right.
Right.
So.
Vic: Yeah.
Gemini, kci, poly Market, they
are taking a very small spread
of the float going through it.
They're not taking one side or the other.
Right.
I think you have to have
both people transacting.
Right?
And someone has more
information than the other.
They both think they have good
information, but they're wrong.
Yeah.
Marcus: One of,
Vic: yeah, agree.
Marcus: Thena Health integrates with
Dragon copilot AI assistant as Microsoft
moves deeper into ambulatory care.
Man, I have not heard the
word dragon in so long.
I know Microsoft's still holding on.
Yeah.
Old Dragon.
Yeah.
Old dragon.
You know, it's, it's funny, I feel
like in the ai, like since AI has
been booming, I've been hearing
Athena Health more and more.
Mm-hmm.
Um, like it feels like it's
making a little bit of a comeback
as a very sort of lightweight,
tech forward, um, EMR platform.
Yeah.
That, that, that is sort of
made for a moment like this.
Right.
So, yeah.
And I think
Vic: ambulatory is growing.
As well.
Marcus: Yeah, I think that, I think that's
both, that's probably part of y both.
Yeah.
Right.
I think that's probably part of y Yeah.
Uh, okay.
That's cool.
Well, this is the post on X. Yeah.
From, uh, Didi das.
This is, uh, talking about sort of where
AI is, is most being, uh, you know,
um, adopted inside of the enterprise.
Um, I, I've, I found this very same
information from the Menlo, right.
Um, ventures, uh, report.
But basically, you know, without
bearing the lead, healthcare is
the number one category where, uh.
Where AI is being adopted.
Yeah.
And, and it's like kind of not even close.
Yeah.
And, and, and a lot of it is, so
I like the Menlo report because
they dig into it a little bit more.
Mm-hmm.
And so much of it is described technology.
Yeah.
Right.
That's, that's really
like the leading frontier.
Yeah.
Um, which, which actually
is heartwarming because.
It's, uh, it's not a back office thing.
It's actually a, a clinical theater thing.
Yeah.
That like is helping
doctors be more present.
Be more present.
Yeah.
So like that.
That's fantastic.
And then allow them to go home.
That's fantastic.
Vic: Allow them
Marcus: to go home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's, that's great.
That's really, really cool.
Yeah.
Vic: I think we're starting to see kind
of verticalized AI having successful
use cases where there is ROI like
scribing and I think revenue cycle
too is probably in that category.
Yep.
Where.
It's working and people are
investing, companies are investing
more and more money in it.
Um, there's a lot of publicity
around whatever, 99% of AI testing
isn't working, but, but there
are use software development.
Various healthcare things where
it is much more effective to
use AI in some, some cases.
Yep.
Marcus: Okay.
Open AI updates, chat.
Chat, GPT after code red scramble.
So they managed to get,
uh, a new version out.
Mm-hmm.
Pretty quickly.
Vic: Yeah.
It came out today.
So I don't know that much about it.
5.2, the early results
seem to be positive.
Sure.
But you know, it's been out for six hours.
Sure.
Marcus: But it, but it, but it seems
like what we're really seeing is that
this is not an organization that can.
Operate in multiple streams.
Like Google can.
Yes.
Right.
Go.
Google's balance sheet allows them to
roll this out plus roll out antigravity
plus roll out nano banana plus roll
out y you know, vertex AI on the cloud.
Yeah.
Because, just because Yeah.
Of fold or whatever, they all
comes, it's Google, right?
Because it's Google
plus plus the TPU chips.
Yeah.
And, and we're just seeing
how thin open AI really is.
Yeah.
And again, this, this goes back to
what we were talking about last week,
I think just the, the idea that.
They're a startup man.
Yeah.
And they tried to take on the monsters.
Right.
And I just think at the end of the
day, like a, you're taking on a
monster that invented the technology.
Mm-hmm.
Like the idea that they weren't gonna
get their their head on straight.
Right.
Right.
And like, go eat you, it, it just
always was just arrogance to me.
You know, I've, I've been.
I've been short open AI for Yeah.
A long time.
I continue to be, I don't use it.
I don't see a, a use case for it,
you know, compared to Gemini and
Anthropic and Grok and Grok Rock
is the better realtime search.
Yes.
Uh, uh, LLM.
Right.
So, yeah, I,
Vic: I, we both have accounts.
I don't use it that much, but I
will te like I, you have the account
just to test things like this.
Yeah.
But the reason I think it's
important to follow them is.
They are gonna keep going, like
full on all gas, no break to
try to do what they can do.
And Sam is a good money
raiser and a good deal maker.
Whether you think you trust him or not.
I don't, I wouldn't trust, trust him.
I mean, I mean, I
Marcus: mean, I mean, sure, but he,
I, I, I, I think the thing is their,
their play here, here was their play.
Their play was.
We are gonna be the brand, right?
Yeah.
Like Google became the brand
for search and we're gonna be
the category defining company.
Right.
And I don't think they're gonna
be the category defining company
that's, do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Like they'll have their place and they'll
do deals, but, so here's an example.
Uh uh, secretary Hex.
Rolled out the whole like
military AI platform.
Did you see this?
No.
Yeah.
So, so, so the, the military
now has access to gen ai.
Um, I forget like there's a, there's
like, it's like mill AI or something.
AI mill.
I, I can't remember.
But, but like there, there's like
an official military AI program.
Now, do you know what the first
model they, they have access to is?
Probably Anthropic Gemini.
Really?
Okay.
Gemini,
Vic: right?
So like Andro.
So I, I was talking to a friend of ours
at I fda, they're using Anthropic spinoff.
Marcus: Well, well, I would've been
surprised for it to be Anthropic since
Sachs has been shooting at Anthropic and
saying that they're like fear mongering.
Right?
I I would, I would imagine that
was probably not the aligned one.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But, but even still, like Google isn't.
Doesn't feel like the one I would've
thought they would've picked, I
would've thought they would've
picked like copilot or OpenAI.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yeah.
Like one of those two.
The fact that they picked Gemini,
that tells you like OpenAI
is not the category winner.
They're not the, yeah.
Like they, they may even be a leader,
but they're not, they're not Nvidia,
they're not Google for search.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
They're not meta for social,
they're just an LLM company.
In a, in a cohort of LLM companies,
and that's why I'm short.
Yeah.
Because that's not what
they propose to do.
Right.
That's not what they propose to do.
Right.
Anthropic and Accenture strike
AI deal targeting business
clients and and this is why.
Yeah.
'cause Anthropics gonna
win the enterprise.
Yes.
This is why,
Vic: you know, Andro is going
to be a, a pure pre enterprise.
Maybe they'll have some government
work 'cause they're in the HSS.
It's great.
It's great.
It's great product.
Open Eye is not gonna be that.
No, no, no.
They're not.
Google's kind of all over the place and
they'll be good in every area probably.
Yeah.
Which is fine.
Yeah.
Right.
Which is fine
Marcus: for them,
Vic: you know?
Yeah.
And Google has.
You know, positive cash flow.
They're, they're funding all
of this out of their, you know.
Crazy cash flow.
Marcus: A hundred percent.
And Google has all, like, Google
has Gmail, Google has Android.
Google has Google Workspace.
So they can just, YouTube infuse
they have, Google has YouTube.
They can just infuse Gemini in all
these other, like, you know what I mean?
They are like Microsoft, like
copilot doesn't have to be
a great standalone thing.
Right.
It's like it just infuse
it in everything else.
Yeah.
And it's like that's,
it's gonna get usage.
Yeah.
It's gonna get massive
usage for that alone,
Vic: right?
Yeah.
The two, I mean, the ones I would
bet on if we were betting is, is.
I think Grok is gonna be good.
And then I, I think meta is not dead yet.
I mean, Zuckerberg has hired
so many people, he's gonna
come out with something.
I don't know what it's, well, well,
Marcus: well, well, here's the thing.
No one is close to meta on social,
with the exception of tips of TikTok.
Right?
Right.
Vic: Like
Marcus: TikTok iss the
only one that's close.
But I still, meta is unreal on social.
Yes.
Right, right.
So as long as they have,
this is the thing, ai.
Is, uh, is like the internet, right?
And so it's gonna be about
who wins certain domains.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
You know, meta still runs social right.
Philanthropics gonna win the
enterprise alongside Microsoft.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, like that's, who's gonna
win that raise Gemini is gonna be
this great general purpose thing.
And this is the worst thing for
Gemini, is the worst thing for open
ai because they're general purpose.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And they have so much distribution.
Yes.
That as long as it's pretty damn
good, it's like, why would I have this
Vic: right.
Marcus: You know?
And you can see that in the market share.
Yeah.
Deterioration.
Right?
You can see that.
So I don't think code right is going
to, is gonna fundamentally change it.
Vic: No, I
Marcus: agree.
But having said that, our final story
is that Disney agrees to bring its
characters to open AI's Sora videos.
Disney is taking a $1 billion
stake in open AI and bringing its
characters to soa the AI company's
short form video platform Now.
Now I think we have to first acknowledge.
Disney is not as strong
as they used to be.
Vic: That's definitely true.
Marcus: The strongest
media company is Netflix?
Yes.
Okay.
Disney is not the strongest
media company anymore.
Vic: Right?
Yeah.
Disney does have a lot of good characters
though, but they've got some serious ip.
Yeah.
I mean, all the Star Wars things.
Oh my gosh.
All of those animated movies with.
I mean this, every generation has a
movie that, that they grew up with all,
Marcus: all, all the Star Wars
stuff, all the Disney stuff.
And it would be interesting, they don't
have a hundred percent of Marvel, but
they do have the, the core Marvel Studios.
Yeah.
And it would be interesting whether or
not, not, not the animated, not the comic
book Marvel, but the human character
like, like Robert Downey as Ironman.
Right.
It would be instant whether or not they
can bring Robert Downey as Ironman.
They got a picture
Vic: of, of the one that, um.
He is kind of a bad actor.
Go down a little bit.
Um, one of the Marvel guys.
What's that one that, uh,
that guy, what's his name?
Oh, Ryan Reynolds.
Yeah, it dead.
Was his Deadpool dead?
Deadpool dead.
Yeah.
Dead Deadpool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Deadpool's clearly in it.
Yeah.
Well
Marcus: if Deadpool's in
it, then that's Marvel.
They studios then that's Marvel Studios.
Yeah.
Vic: Yeah.
Oh, wow.
See, that's, I mean, it would be cool to
see you doing Juujitsu against Deadpool.
That's, that, that's, I
would, I would like to see
Marcus: that.
That's pretty, that's pretty cool.
I might do that tonight.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
So, so look, I mean, like I said,
open AI is gonna have a business.
It's gonna, I mean, it's
gonna have a business.
Sam is, is a good deal guy.
I mean, he, I think that's what
he, that's what he is best at.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're gonna have a business.
Alright man.
You know, we're, we're heading
into the end of the year and,
uh, I, I wonder, do you feel that
we're heading into a midterm year?
Mm-hmm.
We are heading into the one year
anniversary of Trump's term.
And so, you know, the groundwork has been
laid, the shock and awe has happened.
We're all on the other
side of all of that.
We've gotten to the other side of
the government shutdown, I mean.
Do you generally think that we have a
decent understanding of the playing field?
Um, in terms of what is, and I'm
not talking about black swan stuff.
I'm just talking about do we generally
understand the policy landscape?
Do we generally understand who has
tailwinds and who has headwinds in, in
the, in the healthcare industry itself?
Do we generally understand?
As far as we know, based on the
technology, as we understand
it and its iterations, do we
generally understand like the type
of impact AI is going to have?
'cause when, when we came into last year,
we had no idea what we were coming into.
Right?
But this is, this is a, it's a
bit of a different year, right?
Vic: I mean, last year at
this time, crypto was not
allowed in the US big point.
Huge point we just talked about.
JP Morgan putting together
the first bond deal on Solana.
Yeah, AI was several iterations behind
where it is now, so it didn't exist
and now it's hanging out with Deadpool.
I think that a lot has
changed in the last year.
I don't mean I know very
few people in DC by design.
I never go to DC and so I do not
have any inside information, but
it's my view from the outside that.
Trump two was very well planned.
First year was very well planned.
I mean, they came in with an agenda.
These are the things we know we can
do without anyone else's approval,
and we're just gonna do these things.
And my guess is they had a
two year plan and they're,
they're just running full steam.
Into the midterms, but,
Marcus: but, but I guess my question
is, do you think that there are things
that they're gonna do that they haven't
already foreshadowed, signaled, or
started that that's that's really the,
the, the question like, are we, are, are
there going to be surprises that they
haven't yet showed their hand on that?
That's, that's the bigger thing for me.
Yeah.
Not like, is it like more of the same?
I think we can, we can navigate,
Vic: I, I think that, I think
Trump is gonna be distracted with.
Geopolitics.
Mm-hmm.
If, uh, Ukraine continues to
like go mess around mm-hmm.
And there won't be really any big change.
If he, if something happens in Ukraine
and that gets solved, then I think
he'll turn back domestic and try
to, try to do something that would
get a lot of votes be very popular.
I'm not exactly sure what that is.
It'll be whatever, whatever
catches his fancy at the time.
I think it's gonna be more of the same.
I mean, I think, I think we know
where Kennedy's going with HHS.
And his announcement today of, you
know, a contest where he has applicants
apply for how to, how to make
nutrition impactful on chronic disease.
One is, is an interesting new
program, but two, it's, it's very in
character like that, that's what he's
been wanting to do for a long time.
Right.
And I think, uh.
Sachs and the crypto AI thing is very
telegraphed that they're gonna try
to come out with a nationwide set of
policies that's gonna be highly debated.
Yep.
Every state's gonna hate it, but
they probably can push it through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think, I think it's
pretty well telegraphed.
It is
Marcus: pretty well
telegraphed at this point.
Right.
Okay.
Well that's, that's, uh.
That's comforting.
I, I think so too.
Mm-hmm.
I think so too, by the way.
And I think it's pretty comforting, uh, to
feel like we've got it pretty mapped out.
Uh, it, it is just.
Because I don't, I, I guess the reason
I'm saying this is because like the first
quarter of this year was pretty difficult.
Yeah.
You know, and I don't, I'm not
really excited about another
first quarter like that.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Um, and so, yeah.
Not that I'm thrilled with how things
are going right now, but to, to at
least feel like I understand mm-hmm.
Where all the chess pieces are.
That's, that's pretty,
that's pretty valuable.
Vic: Yeah.
I, I think, I mean,
there's only six months.
Until they start campaigning.
Yep.
And I think it, the dies
pretty well cast there.
There is a really fast pace
of AI and crypto that just
like, it's gonna keep going.
It might accelerate.
Um, but it's, it's from the government
point of view, I think the way they're
regulating things is pretty well
Marcus: established.
Yeah, I think that's right.
Alright, man.
Anything else before, uh,
we shut this thing down?
No.
We have a show next week.
Yeah, we do.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, we're, we're going, we're going
right into the, the, the holiday.
Yeah.
And then we, we need to come up
with something for end of year, but
Vic: Right.
Yeah.
I, I'm gonna be in Europe
that after Christmas, so that
whatever that Thursday's after.
That's what I mean.
We need, we need to come up with like,
Marcus: we may need to
record something in advance.
Yeah.
Just kind of like a maybe a
year in review or something.
Yeah, yeah.
Vic: Yeah.
Marcus: Okay.
All right, man.
I'll see you next week.