Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
We have a bonus episode of the father factor series to talk about dads and daughters. We wanted to talk specifically about how the father wound affects daughters. We brought in our friend Beth Winter to speak about her own family and ministry experience dealing with the father wound.
Show Notes
_______________
WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
_______________
SHOW NOTES
- Enneagram
- Personal Assessment on Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
- Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Peter Scazzero
- Changes that Heal by Dr. Henry Cloud
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Caroline, and it's been a while since I've been on the podcast, but today I'm joined by Beth Winter.
Speaker 1:Hey, Beth. Hi. This is so fun. It's like our first girls only episode where you can mentor.
Speaker 2:And my first episode. So Me and Beth's first episode.
Speaker 1:Double excitement. I can help. This is great. Well, Beth, just tell us a little bit about what you do and a little bit about what you like and who you are.
Speaker 2:Okay. That is a broad spectrum Yeah. I know. Of introductory topics. But, I work at ForRenther.
Speaker 2:I'm the k through 6 program coordinator for our after school program. And so that is how I got my foot in the door, I think, to be on this podcast, which really, I think it was, listening to the father factor series, and it was so powerful. And I thought, you know, I I think we're missing something because if this podcast is supposed to be for all mentors, I was like, there is so much language and information here that is so useful for mentoring boys, but what about the girls? And so, basically, I meddled my way into the podcast. We're so glad you did.
Speaker 2:But, really, just to get give you a glimpse of who I am. I grew up in West Texas, born and raised, moved to Dallas a year ago. I went to Texas Tech and graduated with a bachelor in human sciences where I studied addiction disorders and recovery studies, human development and family studies. There's a lot of, words in this degree and psychology. So it's kind of like this 3 in one situation, which everyone says wasn't gonna be very useful and then applied a lot to this job.
Speaker 2:So that's good. Yeah. But really just excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Beth and I actually met hilariously, well, through a friend, but really over Instagram. So, you know, social media is is a good thing because Beth wouldn't Beth wouldn't be here unless it were for social media. That is true. So we're very thankful that you are here, and I'm really excited to jump in with you. So today, we're gonna be like Beth said, we're gonna be talking, a little bit more in-depth about, the father wound.
Speaker 1:And if you are tuning in for the first time, we are in now a 6 part series about called the father factor. And it is just all about, the role of a father and the wounds that come out of that, and, also the good things that come up out about a come out of a relationship with a father. And so, Beth and I, as 2 women who both have fathers and who both live in this sinful world, we have some experience with our father wound. And, we're just gonna kinda dive into that. I think both of us would say that one thing we wanna preface before you really dive in is, well, one, if you haven't listened to the other episodes, do yourself a favor.
Speaker 1:Listen to those. They're amazing. And they've caused both Beth and I to have a lot of thoughts and to think through a lot of things. But also, we just wanted to say that we are not trying to say all dads are terrible and all dads do a poor job about being a father because the reality is is that we live in a sinful world and that we do fall short and that there is no perfect way. But the way of God, the father is perfect.
Speaker 1:And so our hope is to maintain that focus, that God, the father is the perfect father and that we just have to deal with some of the shortcomings that come from living in a sinful world. So we just wanted to say that. Beth, would you add anything to that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I just, would say God designed dads to be so important. And so there's just such a high call on their lives and their roles and families Mhmm. That it also comes at a high cost when things aren't up to standard of what God's asked us to do, asked fathers to do. There's redemption in available for every father daughter, father son relationship.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But we have to step into these conversations to know how to get to that place. And so that's really what this is about is what is the father wound, what are fathers supposed to do for their daughters, and how can we get to good relationships through that.
Speaker 1:So, something that we've talked about in this series before is that, a father gives his family three things, which are leadership, identity, and security. So, Beth, how do daughters look to their father for those things maybe differently than sons would?
Speaker 2:Just to break it down, I guess, piece by piece, which is hard because I think all these go together. Mhmm. But I when I think of leadership from a daughter's perspective, I'm I'm looking at my dad to clear a path for me, to give me what I need, the space I need, the resources I need to become who God made me to be. I think about in my own life how my dad did this for me. One example of many, is just that I had a lot of hobbies growing up.
Speaker 2:I had a lot of exploring interests. And even though we didn't have a lot of resources, my dad cleared a path to let me explore who I was becoming every time, and it was never a burden on him. He never made me feel like I was wasting his time or his money when I would hop from, I'm gonna be a tennis player to, I'm gonna be a piano, musician. He let me explore, and he showed up to everything that I tried. He let me fail in things.
Speaker 2:So I just think that there was so much opportunity for for him to step in and and just clear that path in providing opportunity for me, to grow and to become independent. So that's just like one thing off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's really good. When it comes to just you becoming a woman now, you have a voice. And so how does a father lead a daughter to find that it sounds kinda cheesy, but to find that voice because I do think it's important. And so what do you think is the role that a father plays in leading a woman, a girl specifically, into, defining that in herself?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's good. I think the world is very good at silencing women. And I think fathers have just this tremendous opportunity to whether they literally say these words to their daughter or through their actions, they communicate this to them. I think fathers, it is important for them to not only say to their daughter, but to the rest of the world too.
Speaker 2:She has something to say. She is capable. She is intelligent. She has wisdom. The Lord has put things on her life.
Speaker 2:The Lord has equipped her, has, called her to things. So listen to her. Make space for her in the conversation. Mhmm. And I think that starts even at in the home, like, at the dinner table, inviting and welcoming your daughter to be a part of the conversation about important topics, engaging your daughter in conversations that are beyond superficial things, but really engage her mind and and communicate value of you have good ideas, and you have something you can share.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's that's huge. I think as you get older, you have to make decisions for yourself. And as a young woman, we have to figure out what the heck we're doing and where we're gonna work and where we're gonna live and who we're gonna hang out with. And so, your voice matters.
Speaker 1:And I think a father, just to add to that, Beth, like a father has the ability to to teach and to empower a daughter and a son, but, to learn, to learn right versus wrong, but also to speak about it and also to make, to fail, to fail and allow them to learn from their mistakes and talk about their mistakes and talk about why something is good and why something is bad. I think fathers have tremendous impact on what a daughter feels like she can speak out on. And I, I think just starting in the home is, is really good. What would you say about either identity or security?
Speaker 2:I think, with an identity, the father just has this natural, like, god given commanding. If I say what this is what it is, this is what it is. And there is so much power in that to be used well or not. And so I think there's just you cannot underestimate the power of words that you speak over your daughter, or words that have been unsaid in a relationship. And so I would say, communicating her value is one of the most important things that a father can do for his daughter Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And identity.
Speaker 1:How how would they communicate their value?
Speaker 2:I've had a lot of experience in mentoring girls. In my previous role, I worked in ministry. I worked in both youth ministry and college ministry. And, basically, my whole schedule was filled up with meeting with girls, and a lot of them, believe it or not, had some issues with their fathers. And so many of them were still as successful in college, doing well, young adults.
Speaker 2:They're still looking for that affirmation from their dad of, am I doing enough? Am I good enough? Do you see me? I remember there was one girl who was terrified because she had not done well on a test, and she felt this need to to come clean to her dad about it because he was supporting her in college. And she was she was literally terrified to call him because there was just so much in her mind.
Speaker 2:The value of their relationship was dependent on this identity of the only thing they were asking me about is my grades, so that must be the most important part of our relationship. And if I'm not measuring up in grades, what is left for us to talk about? What is left for us to connect on? What is left left for him to be proud of me about? So I think just, diversifying what you talk to your daughters about, and engaging her interests, but not centering it on performance.
Speaker 2:Just centering some of your questions on, what do you think about this? What do you feel about this? Making it less goal oriented sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's really good. The vast majority of fathers want to love their kids really well. And a way to do that is to to just foster what your kids like.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And to Beth, you said this, that your dad did this really well of just being okay that hobbies change
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And acknowledging them and supporting them, and showing showing interest in more than just one thing or showing interest in more than even more than just what your daughter's good at, but also asking about maybe things that are hard. Mhmm. And being okay with that and supporting them still. And so I think just we've talked a lot about this on this podcast of just being a good question asker and the father specifically Yeah. Can do that too.
Speaker 1:It's not just about it's not just important in a mentoring relationship, but it's important in your, you know, in your relationship with your father as well. And just it means so much when your dad asks you good questions because it means that it's showing care and it's showing thoughtfulness. And I think that that can really speak a lot. So, Beth, the last of the 3 is security. And just what would you say, is the value of having security in your relationship with your dad?
Speaker 2:Well, when I think of security in the perspective of what I look to in a dad is for someone to have my back. I I think, you know, so many loving dads, they want the best for their daughter so much that they fear a lot for their daughter. Mhmm. And so I think sometimes we put so much emphasis or fathers put so much emphasis on fearing what could happen to their daughter that they prepare them to be a victim rather than preparing them to to be strong and to know that they are resilient and to be independent and to be ready to go into the world and lead and make a difference and live out the gifts and the calling that God put on them. And so I would say with security, it's just it's this fine line of knowing your dad has your back, but also he empowers you to be secure even when he's not around.
Speaker 2:And I think these all go so hand in hand Yeah. That you almost can't talk about one without talking about the other.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that oftentimes, I think some of our, like, greatest my dad was so amazing and did this incredible thing. When we have stories like that, they really embody all 3 of those at the same time. Right before this, I was I called my mom and told her I was gonna be on this podcast, and we were talking about her relationship with her dad, and and she said, yeah. I don't know if I ever told you this story, but when I was, 18, I was working in my dad's mechanic shop. My grandpa was a mechanic, and she said, I just helped in the office, did a lot of the paperwork, and we worked with pretty rough crowd in a mechanic shop.
Speaker 2:And they're all men, and she said there was this one guy there that was just being really inappropriate to me. And I stood up for myself, she said, but he just kept getting more and more crude. And, eventually, when it got back to her dad, she said he, he he took the matter into his own hands, and she said he, this guy ended up being thrown literally into a trash can.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And, you know, maybe that that, overt masculine, like, fighting energy isn't what is needed every time, but she said right in that moment, you know, what is being communicated to me as a daughter was I'm going to take leadership in showing all these other men this is the standard. This is what men do and do not do. And then I'm going to speak identity over my daughter by saying you are you are valuable and you are worth more than what that guy just tried to place on you. And then I I protected I provided security, but she said he actually fired him on the spot and said, like, I take this so seriously that I'm going to remove him from this presence, from this vicinity, and communicate to every other man here that this is not how we treat women. And so I I just think of that is what kind of we're called the what fathers are called to.
Speaker 2:That's what we're looking for. You can't be super dad all the time. Right? There's gonna be failure in that, but I think that's a little bit of a picture of kind of the role that a dad can have in his daughter's life.
Speaker 1:Every single one of us as women has a father wound, just like every single man has a father wound because we don't have perfect dads. And the expert the expectation is not perfection, but it is, looking. It is looking to be more like Jesus. And that is the hope. So, we're just gonna kind of talk about what the father wound looks like in daughters.
Speaker 1:And the first thing we're gonna talk about is something that is kind of funny, but we're just gonna kinda talk about what daddy issues look like.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. Terrible. We have to talk about it because that is the first thing everyone thinks of when they're thinking of a father wound, father daughter wound. That word comes to mind.
Speaker 2:And it's cringey, and we don't like it, but we have to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what is what do daddy issues look like?
Speaker 2:So I would say this very cringey term is it's basically a a way to just identify that there is a bonding issue between a daughter and her father. You know, our parents, God designed it so that these people are gonna have the most impact on your life. They are the first people you meet, and, they're gonna have the longest impact on your life. They're with you from day 1. And so with with attachment issues, daddy issues are they're true for men and women, but they're most often talked about in women.
Speaker 2:But, you know, when we are born with a hunger for relationships because God designed us to be in relationship, he's a relational god, if you're not getting fed in a relationship, there is going to be some lasting effects of that malnourishment. Yeah. And so daddy issues are basically the result of that hunger that was not met. Mhmm. We are gonna have to look for ways to get that in another way.
Speaker 2:And so some of the attachment styles, attachment styles are just there's secure, there's insecure attachment styles, and then they're broken down into subcategories. But some of the big ones for insecure attachment styles, you would see, anxious preoccupied anxious preoccupied attachment, disorder. In that, you're gonna see more people who are insecure about being alone. They're clingy. There's more codependency issues in these relationships.
Speaker 2:There's also a dismissive avoidant attachment style in that. You're gonna see trust issues, someone who assumes the worst and just has an underlying fear about the motives of others. And then you'll see fearful avoidant attachment style, and these are gonna come up through seeing people who are they're flighty. They run at the first sign of conflict. And so to make it easier, people just say daddy wound.
Speaker 2:Daddy wound can be any of those things. It can show up in any of those ways, but it's really just saying there is a reason why. Always. There is always a reason why. You know, if you have issues with codependency in a relationship or if you get extremely anxious anytime something is like, you have to state your opinion and it's different from somebody else's.
Speaker 2:That can be a signal of an attachment issue because there is just an underlying fear of, are you gonna leave me? Are you gonna abandon me? And so that's kind of some of these things that come out.
Speaker 1:Wow. And all of these stem from your bond with your with your caregiver, with your father and mother. Correct? Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And there's it can be a mother issue too. It's just we're talking about father issues on this podcast. But but, yeah, it can be either caregiver. Wow.
Speaker 1:That's a big role parents play. Turns out. Yeah. Wow. So I think the easiest connection that we make in in relationships down the road and how your father your relationship with your father affects other relationships.
Speaker 1:The one that we talk about most of the time I'd say is real is romantic relationships.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So how do you see either these attachment styles show up or just really the father wound in general? How do they show up in, you know, future romantic relationships?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I think romantic relationships are probably the first place we think of. Mhmm. And so for so many women, you know, you're looking to your dad. He's the first example you have of what a man is, of what a man should be, of what you can expect from men.
Speaker 2:And so your daughter will be your greatest student of looking for the hidden meanings and messages and teachings and everything you do and say. Whether a father is present and he's your best friend or whether a father is completely absent, there's gonna be some underlying things in there. And so for women who maybe didn't have the best relationship with their father, I think you can have this fear of what if, what if the unknown is worse than the known? And so I'm gonna I'm gonna look for a relationship that is just like my dad was, that just that this guy treats me like my dad treated my mom because at least I know what's coming versus I'm gonna look for something better or something different. I don't even know where to start with that because what if it's even more painful?
Speaker 2:At least I saw my mom know how to deal with this, and so I know how to deal with this. And so I can take that. And and then I think, I think of if you've ever seen or read Perks of Being a Wallflower, there's a a line in there that's pretty famous of we, people accept the love they think they deserve. And so I think there's also this self esteem that comes into play. A lot of women who have father wounds have low self esteem issues.
Speaker 2:And so when you combine that fear of the unknown plus low self esteem, you kind of can see where these patterns of accepting unhealthy, just unproductive relationship Yeah. With men.
Speaker 1:And these can be, I mean, really small things to really extreme things as well. And that's why that's why looking at the role that a father plays in the leadership, identity and security aspects are so huge because all the things that you just shared, Beth, come out of one of those three things. And like personally for me, there was a big emphasis on really my whole life and with most men that I encountered in my family and just other leaders that happened to be men. There was a really big emphasis on my physical appearance and how that would get me places.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And, like, I remember a soccer coach saying, like, well, you'd probably be able to be a better soccer player if you just lost weight. Nuh-uh. Yeah. Like sophomore year of high school. Or like, you'd probably be able to do that.
Speaker 1:And like my dad, I love my dad. And he like, my dad really did foster a lot of my interests and like, but he would only ask about my romantic relationships. Mhmm. Or like why or like soccer, like things that I did or the things that the person that I liked at the time. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 1:so I really felt like that was all that I had to offer in a lot of ways. Not because it was, you know, coming out of a place of malice or coming out of a place of I just don't think that my dad knew. I just don't think that my dad knew I was his first daughter. I mean, he had never had a daughter before. So I don't think that he we don't always know what the right thing to do is.
Speaker 1:And so I know that my dad was like, oh, she's interested in this guy. I'm gonna ask about her him. Mhmm. But that became a pattern. And so I remember for me, like, now being married, I remember the first time my, at the time, my boyfriend, now husband asked me what I thought about something and asked me, like he, I remember at the beginning of our relationship, he told me this isn't going to work if you don't speak up.
Speaker 1:And like I this isn't gonna work if you're not willing to have a different opinion or have conflict with me because I need you I need to know that you can think for yourself. Yeah. And it was like this mind blowing thing because I just had only ever had to just share, well, I like like the sky, or this is what I look like, or this is like me just living my life. And there was no pushback ever, and there was no expectation of conflict, and there was no expectation of having a different opinion. It just kinda was what it was.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And
Speaker 1:so I just remember, like, my husband asking me to do that and how how many things were brought up in the midst of that of like, oh my gosh. The father has a big role to play. The men in a woman's life have a big role to play because they are able to they're able to speak so much life. And Zach Zach has shared this on this podcast before, but just that a man a man doesn't know he's a man until a man tells him that he is.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And a father has the same impact on a daughter.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That a father, a man gets to speak life and womanhood over a woman and acknowledge their differences and acknowledge the beauty in that. And women get to as well. Yeah. But the father has a huge role to play in that and lasting impact there. I think that your your romantic relationships are one of the easiest and first places to start in looking at father wounds, but they can play out in other relationships too.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I mean, how would how would you say that where have you seen, either in yourself or in other people, father wounds show up in other relationships?
Speaker 2:Well, I know I mean, there is not one type of father. And so Mhmm. For some people, they may have had a very domineering, very loud, very blunt father. And for others, they may have had a very passive, kind of withdrawn father. And so it can show up in different ways, but I know a lot of women who have had struggles feeling just an anxiety being around men in authority, whether it be a teacher or their pastor or a boss, because it's like a it's a deja vu moment for them of sometimes our interactions with other people.
Speaker 2:They can't take it personally. It's nothing that person has done necessarily, but something about that figure reminds us of the most formative, maybe worst experiences of our childhood, and that's gonna come out in a relationship. And so I think, for a lot of women, they may not even realize the impact of a father wound on their life until they get in a meeting. And all of a sudden, when they're asked to give feedback on something and they their heart is just beating out of their chest because they have a fear of voicing their true thoughts about something, fearing this response of, will you will you hear my ideas? Are you gonna respond well to this?
Speaker 2:If if you don't understand where I'm coming from, how are you gonna treat me? I know one of my friends that I've talked to about this, one of her big issues in relationships in general came from her father would retreat from the relationship when he didn't understand her. And so there is just this underlying issue she had to deal with through just healing from the Lord of it's okay for there to be conflict. It it is okay for me to have a different opinion from the people around me, but that's something she had to learn and overcome because before it was like, if if you don't understand me, if you don't agree with me, you're gonna leave me. You're not even gonna show up to the conversation anymore so that we can work this out.
Speaker 2:And so I think it's it's just I don't like the word trigger. Yeah. It's a very, hot topic word, but it is fitting that there is triggers can show up in all sorts of different ways and different relationships like that.
Speaker 1:Wow. And I and a lot of what we're saying, I like I feel like in some ways it seems so hopeless.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Like it seems so I just, I just don't want any dads that listen or daughters that listen to think that there is no hope and to think that you are just destined for failure or destined for hurt. And like the reality is that the reality is that there will be, and the reality is that we don't live in a perfect world and we don't get it right all the time. And we don't even know, Beth, you just said this, that you don't even know the hurt until it's brought up later. Yeah. Until someone does something.
Speaker 1:And for some reason you respond with fear or with anxiety or with frustration or with anger or with complete passive aggressiveness, whatever it is, like, you don't realize that there is hurt until later. And so that is why we're talking about it because it's easy to just live your life without acknowledging it.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But the the goodness that comes out of this is that we can call it out and we can say, hey, this is probably from a father wound. Right. This is probably because you're probably seeing this pattern in your life that you respond to your boss the same way every time he does x thing.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because maybe there was something similar in your relationship with your father. And there is healing. There is hope, but we have to be willing to call it out and willing to recognize it and not just shove it under the rug.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:One of the primary emotions that we talk about, in dealing with father wounds is fear. And so how do you think that fear is expressed in girls maybe differently than it would in boys?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's interesting because when I was asked to come on this podcast, I talked to several women in my life about, hey. What are your thoughts about this? Like Mhmm. Can you I mean, this is a very invasive question, but can you talk to me a little bit about your feelings about father wounds and your experiences with that?
Speaker 2:And the continuum of the of the women that I talked to was all the way from on one side, my dad is my best friend, all the way to my dad was abusive, and then he left my family. And regardless of where these women fell on that continuum, the thing that was a consistent theme in all of them was fear. There is some amount of fear in their relationship with their father. And I think there's a lot a lot of things that can go into that. But I think when we think back to the primary roles of a father in the relationship of leadership, identity, and security, when we recognize that as a dad, you can't be perfect, you are gonna have some lapses in judgment on those things.
Speaker 2:And when it happens, there is going to be, like, this voice in your daughter's mind that starts to say things like, if my dad doesn't even believe in me, like, who's going to? If my dad doesn't even care about me enough to stand up to that guy and what he said about me, who's going to? And it's some of those questions that I think start to generate fear because it's a trust issue. It's you were supposed to be this for me, and you weren't. So I don't know if I can fully trust that you're gonna leave me well.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'm gonna fully trust that you're going to help me see myself the way God wants me to see myself. I don't know if I can fully trust you to provide security that I need.
Speaker 1:Wow. The devil has no new schemes Right. On Earth. And it is so aggravating to look at it on this side Mhmm. Of, like, when we're just talking about a father wound and say, how do I how did I not realize Yeah.
Speaker 1:That that was Satan?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Like, when I first asked the question of myself, well, who's gonna stand up for me? Or who would who would love me?
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Who would like the way that I look, who would think that I'm capable, whatever the question is. It is so aggravating to to think that, well, of course, that's Satan. Of course, that is just his way of weaseling his, his hand into my life and into my thoughts. But it is so sneaky. And that is why we're talking about it because it is, it doesn't seem in the moment.
Speaker 1:It doesn't seem like it's, it's not just Satan with his, you know, he's not like this little red devil that's just waving around right there that is easily recognizable. Yeah. It is so sneaky and it starts with something usually so small. And it can manifest into bigger things. And there are big patterns in your life when you are a child.
Speaker 1:Those things can be very, very apparent, but for a lot of us, it might not be, and it might be really small. And I might like, I look back at my childhood and I I my dad was a great dad. Yeah. And he came to every single soccer game, and he didn't miss them. He asked about them, and he loved me, and he provided for me, and really surface level.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Amazing dad.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But he is a sinner, and I am a sinner. Yeah. And I fall into the hands of sin, and I fall into fear. Mhmm. And so I just I'm just so mad that Satan doesn't have any other other way to get at us, but that he's so sneaky in getting at us.
Speaker 1:And so this is a really big challenge to me to continue to work through some of those sneaky questions that cause fear. Yeah. Because I don't think they will ever get to a point of like complete wholeness until the Lord comes back because that's what he desires for us. But it does re it, it requires me. This is challenging to me right now to be like, where have I let Satan in?
Speaker 1:Yeah. In the sneakiest of ways.
Speaker 2:Well, in with the nature of fear is just, it is so, I mean, it is what you're saying. It's so sneaky. Sometimes, I think that's why we don't even we react before we even know why we're reacting. Yeah. And so there could be things that you you remember being angry about or heard about, but you you can't even verbalize what it is that you're really needing.
Speaker 2:And so there's just so much room for for Satan to just come in and just mess everything up and just cause things to be blown way out of proportion. And so I think that is just such an important part of of keeping in perspective that some dads may not have the best intentions of their daughter of their relationship with their daughter. But I think most dads want to be a good dad. Mhmm. And the father wound is not necessarily an intentional No.
Speaker 2:I want to break my daughter down. Mm-mm. You know? But that is what sin does. That is what the enemy does.
Speaker 2:He comes in. And if your dad didn't ask you, you know, why you were upset when it was very clear you came in crying after school, you know Mhmm. You can so easily turn that into like, the enemy can so easily turn that into, like, your dad doesn't care about you because he didn't ask about you. And so that is just how easy it is to get some things twisted with the relationships.
Speaker 1:We've touched on this briefly, but fathers, they, they define to their daughters what they should expect other men to be like. And we saw that even in the story, Beth, that you shared about your mom. So why, why is a father's example so important for not only who she is, but who and what she'll believe about men generally?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. The differentiation there between the previous episode of this and this one, I think is we've mentioned this. But, yeah, father teaches his son how to be a man, and a father teaches his daughter what to expect from men. And like we've said before, that is true whether you are present or absent. But I just want to reemphasize the the authority, the god given authority that god gave dads to speak life into their daughters.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. There is so much power in the words of men. The the Bible talks a lot about the life and death and the power of the tongue. That is so just amplified in a father daughter relationship. And, like I said, daughters will be a student.
Speaker 2:They will be observing and watching and internalizing what they are learning about men through the actions and the words of their father. How would you say that an earthly relationship affects how daughters often or can see their heavenly father? Yeah. I think, the relationship you have with your earthly father is going to be the starting point of the relationship you have with your heavenly father. We're talking about the power of words, even the word father.
Speaker 2:Like, as soon as that is applied to God, God the father, there is a shift in expectation. And so if your father if your relationship with your father was maybe filled with with love and affection, you're gonna come to God the father expecting that, looking for it. If your father maybe was really, good at asking you or maybe setting goals for you, Maybe your father was was a very good coach, a very good, person who just helped you perform. You're gonna have a more performance driven relationship starting out with God. You're gonna come to him expecting that he's going to be kind of expecting you to check off boxes and reach these expectations.
Speaker 2:There's gonna be a dramatic shift in your relationship with God starting out compared to my relationship with God starting out because our fathers are different and our experiences are different. Mhmm. And so I think that's important to recognize, but the cool thing about that is, like, God designed it that way. Yeah. God designed our dads to have limits to how much they can be the image of God.
Speaker 2:Like, they are in an image of God, but they are not the whole complete picture. And so where wherever we're starting out, that's okay because God's gonna come in, and he's gonna say, you know, if we were talking about the 5 love languages. And if my dad is really good at acts of service, that's a great starting point. But God's gonna come in, and he's gonna be like, I am fluent also in words of affirmation. Here are all the things I say about you.
Speaker 2:Here is how I'm communicating my love to you. And at first, that may be uncomfortable for me because maybe that's not my expectation of what a father daughter relationship looked like. And so it may be like, I'm uncomfortable. I don't even know how to receive that. But that's his desire is I wanna be God is, like, saying to his daughters, I'm gonna communicate this in every language that you can hear it in every way.
Speaker 1:That is so powerful. Just the wholeness of love. Just the complete. He God is complete, and he is lacking nothing. And he desires that for for his children too.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. But we don't necessarily start there. And we it takes work. So what would you what would you say are some practicals in healing from a father wound? Because if if I start out as a part missing some pieces, there's gonna be some healing that needs to take place.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what would you say are some good practicals?
Speaker 2:Well, I think there are a lot of practicals we can talk about, but the first step of that is to engage because healing is not a spectator sport. Like, God has this plan for redemption. He wants to redeem relationships, but we have to do our part in that. We have to engage in that process. And so I think doing what you can to identify what your father wound may be, where are some sore spots in your relationship with men in general or with your own father specifically.
Speaker 2:And I think that can come through a couple different avenues. One, just getting in community of people who know you best and and asking them hard questions of, have you seen any patterns in my life that maybe indicate that something's a little off? I think there's a lot of tools out there that are kind of popularized right now. But Enneagram, you know, is all about identifying why we do what we do. That can be helpful for you seeing some things about why your behavior or how your childhood affected your behavior today.
Speaker 2:I think there we'll link some of this in the show notes, but there's a there's an assessment, called the personal assessment on emotional healthy spirituality. That tool is just really helpful to see how your emotional health, your relational health impacts your spirituality, and so it's really, eye opening. But I think we would we would be remiss to not mention counseling on those podcasts because there are you know, not everyone needs podcast I mean, needs, counseling. Everyone needs this podcast. Everyone needs this podcast.
Speaker 2:Not everyone needs, counseling necessarily, even though I think it can be helpful for everyone. But I think you should really seek wisdom about how much a father wound is affecting you and know when it needs a Band Aid and when you need to go seek surgery. And, I think counseling is a really powerful tool, when it's done well because there is only so much that my friend who is untrained and is biased can do for me if I'm, like, venting to her about something. There is even only so much, like, I could do as a mentor for my mentees. Like, there is only so much because that's not my job.
Speaker 2:That's not my training, and I'm going to have a bias. Mhmm. And so I think it's important to to seek out that kind of accountability and just somebody to help you process some of these things.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:Right. I agree. And just if you're married, I'd add your spouse in there too. Just they're gonna be biased as well. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If you're a woman and you're married to a man, there are gonna be some things that he may not see in that end that you may not be able to verbalize. That might be causing some, some patterns in your marriage, you know, and some things that might stem from a father wound. And Yeah. Those might require an unbiased opinion where someone just looks at you and says, have you ever thought about this?
Speaker 1:Where you can take that back and Yeah. Work on some things because we we all are posture in well, 1 in a relationship with Jesus, but also just as a human should be humility.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And just our posture should be that we want to grow. And we say this here all the time, but one of our sayings is always be growing.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And God did not design our relationship with Jesus to start at one place and for us to stay there our entire life. Yeah. There is always more to learn, and there is always room to grow. And it it might not always be in this area, but there is so much that I can continue to learn when it comes to a father wound and the role that I've played and the role that my dad has played and how to heal from that. So that one, my earthly relationship can be even better than it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because I want I want my relationship with my earthly father to be the best it possibly can be.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:But I also want my relationship with my heavenly father to be the best it possibly can be on this side of heaven. Yeah. That's good. I know that we've, we're talking about a parenting relationship, but a lot of mentors hear this podcast and a lot of mentors are probably parents. And so what are just some kind of general, are there, and is there anything else that you'd say just generally to the masses about, practicals in healing from a father wound?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I like I said before this, I was talking to my mom on the phone and I told a great story about my grandpa earlier, but that's only one piece of the picture of what my mom's relationship with her father was. He was an alcoholic her whole childhood and she. Her relationship with him was also her having to take the role of caregiver in a lot of ways. She was the one pouring the bottles down the drain and calling 911 when he was passed out, things like that.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And so there was there was father wounds in that relationship. And he, he got sick when when he was older with Alzheimer's, and that actually ended up being the saving grace of their relationship. And there that's just like a whole other story. But my mom, she honors her dad so much.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And she is one of my greatest inspirations of showing grace to people. Mhmm. And so whenever I asked her her perspective on some of this, she said that for parents or for mentors who are helping kids go through this, you have to understand that you have to let these kids experience what they're feeling. Like, you have to validate that they are expressing a wound, and you can't explain it away.
Speaker 2:It's not helpful to explain it away. It's it's helpful to listen to what they're saying. Like we said earlier, a lot of these things for us don't even come out. We don't even know we have the wound until later in life, and so parents are not gonna know they caused a wound until later in life. And so it can kind of throw a wrench in a relationship, and so there just has to be an an extreme amount of grace and patience in that.
Speaker 2:And, she said her advice would be to for parents to ask for forgiveness and to accept that forgiveness may not come immediately and to to be patient and just sit in the heaviness of that and just trust the process. Like we say here a lot of if I if relationships are so important and I honor this relationship, I am going to engage in this even when it's hard, even when I want it to be fixed overnight. I'm going to trust this process. I'm gonna let you experience and go through what you're going through, and I will show up and do the work with you when I when it's time. And so I think that's part of it and just, just realizing that also kids, we have to us who have father ones, we are responsible for our feelings.
Speaker 2:We can't expect our parents to come in and make us better. It is our responsibility to do the work of addressing these things and seeking healing and seeking the Lord, and we that's on us.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So That's so good. As a Christ follower, Beth has provided some, like, super good resources that are practical things and that are places that you can go that might might seem to give an immediate answer. But one thing that we'd we'd say to just kinda close out is that you can't you can't do this without prayer.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. Because
Speaker 1:God, in his great mercy, is not only our father, a perfect father, but he is also a healer. He is provider, and he is protector. He is a great listener. He is our best friend if we let him be. And he is our guidance giver, our director.
Speaker 1:I mean, he is just, he is all, all good things. And so when we go to him and we ask Him to start revealing some of these things to us and start giving us some guidance on how to heal, He is sure to provide.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like a podcast is a great resource. A book is a great resource. A counselor is a great resource, but God is the source of relationships. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There is no other place we can go to receive greater wisdom than the source himself.