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Becoming an entrepreneur takes grit.
Deciding to do it solo takes courage.
This is 1,000 Routes, the podcast where we explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:00:00]:
It was like, okay, I want to make this, I want to make this work. I'm just going to work all week. I'm going to make it work, whatever I have to do. And then the other part of me is just constant conflict is like. All right, well, I'm working so I can live. Should I be living to work? But then the other part of me was like, Oh no, I, this is something I want to build and make it great. And so there's just this constant conflict, which is going to be a little bit exhausting to be honest.
Nick Bennett [00:00:26]:
Hey, it's Nick, and welcome to 1000 Routes, the podcast where I explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear all about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:00:46]:
My name is Dylan Ciaccio. I used to be a solopreneur. My company was called Rekorded, and basically what we did was we recorded interview footage of the client that I interviewed, and I would extract their point of view on a specific problem that they solved and we would turn that into content, post it on LinkedIn, sometimes run that with ads to get them clients. And now I am no longer a solopreneur. I decided to go in house, and I am working at Black Camel Agency, which I am the marketing director, what we call ‘problemotional’ ad production, video ads that market the problem in an emotional way.
Nick Bennett [00:01:33]:
I mean, we've known each other for a while now. It's been almost, probably almost a year now. Like most people we met scrolling through LinkedIn, and somehow we got connected and we started chatting. We did a little bit of work together, and now we're just friends, and we catch up every once in a while. And what's interesting about your story is that you were a solopreneur before I was. You were doing the Rekorded thing, and you since have gone in house. And I think that is a very different journey than what most people I interview and what most people hear about. And the decision to go in house isn't an easy one to make or to like, just to close up shop and go back.
Nick Bennett [00:02:16]:
And so I wanna back up the clock a little bit here and just talk a little bit about how did, where did Rekorded come from? How did you start that? What was that journey like and how it led you back in house and kind of everything in between. So let's, let's just start there. I know you started out at an agency or doing some work for some people, doing what was really the premise that created the business of Rekorded. But talk me through a little bit about how you landed that, how it became and how you ended up on your own in the first place.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:02:48]:
I was solving pretty well already for the agency founder that I was working for, and so he hired me to kind of help him extract his expertise and package it into content, do a little bit of ghost writing, put that out there, and it just saved him so much time for pretty much the same quality of content, the same words coming from him, and it was working really well. It gave him more time. I think there were some things that definitely needed to be improved on our process, but that was basically the process that we built to solve that problem for him. And I knew that there were tons of other agency founders that had that same problem. I'm always looking for entrepreneurship opportunities, plenty of failed entrepreneurial opportunities in the past, but I'm a nerd and I like to learn, so I decide I'm going to go off on my own and try to solve this. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. The learning experience, I think that was kind of how I was going into it when I started to solve a problem, but also knowing that I'm very young and have so much to learn.
Nick Bennett [00:03:46]:
So, yeah, I think you saw an opportunity and a problem that a lot of people saw at that time. And there was a few, a few agencies that popped up or a few solopreneurs that popped up around the same time that were solving a similar problem or saw a similar problem and tried to solve it in slightly different ways. You were pretty early to that space, but what surprised you the most about becoming a solopreneur?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:04:15]:
It wasn't really the first time I was a solopreneur, to be honest. I had some solopreneur experience doing e commerce where I was technically on my own, but it wasn't service, it was selling products, selling bowties. So I've had the responsibility of being alone in the past, but I think that with this one, the surprise was just going into a new space that I wasn't very familiar with. I didn't have tons of experience, to give some context. I had only worked for that agency, doing that for about six months, so I couldn't say that I was quite an expert on everything. And so the way I get clients is to be an expert on this, on solving this problem, and I don't think I was quite yet an expert on solving that problem. So I think, to answer your question, the biggest surprise was that I really needed to become an expert to be able to talk about this. And that was just incredible pressure to learn as fast as possible, while also still trying to get clients at the same time.
Nick Bennett [00:05:16]:
You had some success with working with this agency founder, and you're like, this is a problem worth solving. Go out and try to make it work. Walk me through that moment. You realize you're like, I. There's still more to this puzzle that I don't know, and I need to figure this out. How did you work through that? What were you trying to figure out?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:05:36]:
I was solving the initial problem, which was kind of obvious and simple problem that agency founders didn't have enough time to make the content. And I think in the first few months as I was working with clients, yes, I solved their problem. Them not having enough time, but they wanted clients, they wanted leads. I mean, that's the whole point they were doing it for. And if they didn't get that, it didn't really matter. And so it wasn't just about how much content I would put out. It's like, I need to get these guys clients. So it kind of evolved that way.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:06:04]:
And that was kind of the realization that I need to be a strategist here. I can't just put out content for them. I have to have a clear role in helping them get those clients through the content that we make together.
Nick Bennett [00:06:16]:
That's probably the divide between all of the people who are trying to solve that similar problem at that time, that there was this perception that the content was all that was really needed, like, just put out anything. And there's a lot of people that were willing that were doing it and this idea that, like, well, I can't just put out anything. It needs to deliver. So how did you acquire your first clients in the first place?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:06:43]:
Through LinkedIn. Just like I was trying to do for my clients. I was putting out my own LinkedIn content consistently back when a lot fewer people were posting on LinkedIn. I think you look at LinkedIn, people will be complaining about how few impressions they get and all that. And it kind of makes sense. Everyone a year ago was saying, you need to post content, you need to post content, and now everyone is. But because everyone is, it also means that there's going to be fewer impressions that are divided between everyone. So if you have the same amount of people that are watching, but more people produce, they can't show that content to the same amount of people that they were.
Nick Bennett [00:07:21]:
Yeah, I think when I first started doing it, like, I would get five to 10,000 impressions per post. And it was like, oh, this isn't so bad. It's like, you can just get 10,000 people to see what you have to say, right? Okay, dude. So you go solo, you start acquiring some clients, organic, LinkedIn. You're going through this process with people realizing the content is not enough to justify long term investments in this, because they need to receive, they need clients from it. Or if they do get a client, it sounds like, but great, I got a client. Thanks, goodbye. And trying to get them to continue to invest long term, these things seem like it caused turbulence inside your business.
Nick Bennett [00:08:08]:
So then what happens?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:08:10]:
I think that was around the time when I had met you, and you made me aware of the problem that I had, which was the problem that I was solving wasn't really that valuable, and it wasn't enough to really keep people working with me long term, and I wasn't getting them the outcome that they really desired. So there's no point of staying with me. And so there was just this big moment of confusion, kind of a little business existential crisis going on there. What problem do I solve? Is that problem valuable enough? How do I get these people to stay with me long term for this to really work out? And I think I interviewed you on my podcast, and I remember just several days after that, I was just like, what problem do I solve, man? I thought I started out solving a problem, but so much bigger than I thought. And I was just on my mind all the time. And it was like, I need to work with Nick. I can't unsee this problem that he's made aware of me. I could try and figure this out myself.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:09:17]:
It's just going to be a waste of time because I'm going to be unsure of it anyway. So I was like, all right, I'm going to work with Nick. And I had a very small budget at the time. You helped me make it work. You made me aware of the problem that I had, which kind of backed up what you were saying. So it was like working.
Nick Bennett [00:09:34]:
It was like too many light bulbs were going off.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:09:37]:
Yeah, I was up at night thinking about it.
Nick Bennett [00:09:39]:
But there's a difference between any problem and a really valuable problem worth investing in. So it's like, all right, there's a lot of people out there that will solve the content problem. You knew the work you were producing was capable of. Like, that amount of value was there, but it was like, how do you condition people to want to continue to make that investment? And then also, how do you make it deliver?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:10:04]:
That was a big part of it.
Nick Bennett [00:10:05]:
How do you get someone to have an interesting insight? The reason you are able to acquire clients through LinkedIn is because you had a point of view. We worked to make that point of view sharper. This is why these things work, is because the insight is insightful, or at least it has some sort of edge to it that gets under people's skin and it kind of just lives there. But when you're trying to just turn any thought, any uninsightful insight into content, it's not going to deliver. And so you found yourself in a situation where it wasn't just talk to the camera for an hour and I can chop that up and turn it into LinkedIn posts. It was, I have to get you to say something interesting and then talk to the camera, and then I'll chop it up and turn into LinkedIn posts. And the part where you get someone to say something interesting, to have a point of view, proved to be the most frustrating part of the entire process.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:11:11]:
All this existential crisis here, marketing crisis, my rethinking of everything. You had also introduced me to category design and the category pirates, which talk about marketing the problem. And at this time, I was just becoming obsessed with everything they were saying. And it made me realize everything I thought about was just completely wrong, and everything was about the problem that we solve. And like you're saying, the point is to extract point of view. But most people, especially the agency founders that I was targeting, didn't know what problem they solved to start with, so it didn't matter. So there was just all these kind of different realizations that were just kind of hitting me at once, and it was just one big mess. During those few months until later, I had found a client that did have a problem, did know what problem they solved, and we were able to get really good results for them.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:12:08]:
So it kind of proved what you're just saying there. When you actually have the point of view, the content really works really well.
Nick Bennett [00:12:15]:
Yeah. And I think that client was probably the catalyst to where you ended up today, because not only did they have a radically different point of view, but they also utilized it as an advertising, like a PPC or a paid social asset. And they were able to turn those few clips and those few pieces of content into hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue in a pretty short amount of time. And I think that was a light bulb moment for you to realize, like, when all of these things align, there's a lot of money to be made here.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:12:58]:
I remember the client telling me about all the inbound boat calls and how they're all high intent, all qualified going to be turning into several hundred thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue. And I remember seeing that and shouting from like, yes, they succeeded. It worked. And then five minutes later, I was like, God damn it, why didn't I listen to Nick, do not outcome based pricing. I'd be rich right now. What am I to doing? That all just clicked for me. It's like when you solve the problem and you achieve the outcome and you align your incentives, it works so well. But in my case, I only charged a few thousand dollars for that.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:13:38]:
And then we're gonna end up making millions from the work that we did together, and I'm not gonna be getting any from that. And so also, it worked so well, they didn't need me anymore. So it's like, not only am I not getting paid for it, they're not going to even continue even though I got them what they wanted.
Nick Bennett [00:13:55]:
Look, none of us are ever going to get it right and simply just trying to charge for the outcome, it takes more than that. And trust me when I say I haven't gotten pricing right. No one has pricing right. I don't care who you talk with, there's a million different ways to do it. But I think you are right in that doing everything you can to align incentives and charging for your outcomes is still the most effective way to make sure that we're managing risk for ourselves and for our client. All right, all of that aside, you go through this light bulb, basically bursts at this point. You see what is possible here, what happens next. So you have this client, you see what's possible.
Nick Bennett [00:14:45]:
Is it go back and try to get more clients who have a point of view? Is it go try to help your clients create a point of view. What do you do now that you see what's possible here?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:14:58]:
Unfortunately, this light bulb also led to more confusion. It's like, okay, now I kind of know how it works, but do I continue? Do I do something else? I'm going to see how this goes. I'm going to try and create a new point of view about this bigger problem of them not knowing what to say and also helping them with how to say it, putting it into content, running ads. And so I think a month and a half of this newer point of view, newer version of Rekorded, I realized I needed some income because I was at a clients and I was not getting any money from that client that I helped. I said, all right, well, I'll keep doing this, but I need to do some kind of freelancing or something to just kind of pay the bills, which, to be fair, are not that much, because at the time, I was living in South America. So I reached out to someone in the past who had been thinking about working with me, and I said, do you have any need for freelance consulting? Or. I don't know exactly the question I asked. But he said, what you've been talking about on LinkedIn has made me realize that you could fill a position as being my co founder for my agency.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:16:16]:
We said, you know how to market the problem. We have found a problem. We need to help to put out the content for that and grow the agency. And I want you to become the CEO eventually. Basically, the service that I was planning for Rekorded was essentially what I'm doing now in house. So it's like I kind of found by that content that I was putting out, I've kind of found just one big client going in house. Instead of having different clients doing that one service through Rekorded, I'm just doing everything that would have done just for this one client and just going all in with here. So that's how it led me to going back to in house.
Nick Bennett [00:16:55]:
How did you come to the conclusion of the decision of, I'm going to take this opportunity and go back to full time employment, so to speak, whether you come in as a partner, you know, he called it a co founder, whatever, or to really try to make this make Rekorded work. Right? Like, I don't know if Rekorded was your dream, but it's like, to give up on that. What was that turning point for you? How did you make that decision? Because I know a lot of people are facing or in that similar situation, right? They've gone through all the steps that you've had gone through. They had an idea. They've seen this thing work. They know it can work. They're working really hard at it. They're going through the motions, the client cycles, all of these things.
Nick Bennett [00:17:40]:
And at some point now they're out of clients and they're doing everything that they possibly can. I remember when this even came up, you reached out to me and you had mentioned to me, you're like, this opportunity came up. And I think I even asked you then I was like, you really going to give up on working for yourself? And so talk me through how you just made that decision.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:18:03]:
It definitely wasn't an easy one. There were definitely a few weeks of just this constant struggle deciding. Part of me is saying, am I giving up on Rekorded, or am I moving on? Because it's like two different perceptions there. It's like, giving up. I feel like I've just. I could have gone, and I feel like I'm just kind of failing and making the wrong decision. But then from a different point of view there, giving up is not quite giving up, it's moving on when you know that there's a better opportunity. The conclusion that I came to from those few weeks of deciding to go in house is I started recording to solve a problem.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:18:47]:
But also I started because it was an experiment, because I wanted to learn. That has been the motivation throughout that whole journey. I mean, a big part of being the solopreneur was that I got to decide on what I worked on, the time that I spent, and a lot of that was just a couple hours a day. I would just read and just learn as much as I could because I could. No one was bossing me around, telling me I couldn't. Making this decision was, this is an even bigger learning opportunity. Although, yes, it felt a little bit like I had failed and that I'm giving up on something. It wasn't really because the goal was to learn, and this is a better learning opportunity.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:19:28]:
That's just how it works. I knew that if this doesn't work, I can always go back to that with more insights on how to make it work, much more experience. So just because I'm finishing that up doesn't mean it's done forever.
Nick Bennett [00:19:41]:
When we first met, one of the things that you told me, and you're talking about, like, we're living this digital nomad lifestyle, and when I asked you what your goals were, you were like, I only want a couple. I only need a couple of clients. I'm not trying to make one hundred k, fifty k a month. Like, it doesn't really matter. Like, I don't need a ton because of I'm getting paid in us dollars and I'm living in South America, it goes a really long way, you know, like, I'd like to work a few hours a day and go hang out on the beach.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:20:14]:
Like, you.
Nick Bennett [00:20:16]:
You were motivated by very different things. What really were those motivations for you? Because it's hard to balance those things, right? It's like, well, to kind of have your foot, like, half on the gas or, like, halfway, like, trying to feel like you are running a business, but also just chilling. Like, I struggle with that. Like, I'm very much like an all or nothing kind of person. And it's not an idea of balance or it's not like me trying to balance my work life with my life life. Like, I actively try to make my life life a bigger part of the pie here. It almost felt like you were, like, actively trying to keep Rekorded in a certain place so that you're like, I'm just gonna work a couple hours a day and hang out on this beach.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:21:04]:
A couple of things I feel like, one, my motivations shift in cycles. And two, kind of like you're saying I'm an all in kind of person, but I also wanna prioritize my life and learning. This kind of constant conflict is like, okay, I wanna make this work. I'm just going to work all week, whatever I have to do. And then the other part of me is just constant conflict is like, all right, well, I'm working so I can live. Should I be living to work? I didn't need to work that much. I could go to the beach and read at the beach and learn, enjoy my life. But then the other part of me was like, oh, no, this is something I want to build and make it great.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:21:47]:
And so there's just this constant conflict, which can be a little bit exhausting, to be honest.
Nick Bennett [00:21:52]:
You get this opportunity, you weigh this opportunity. Do you feel like you failed? Do you feel like Rekorded was a failure? Or did you categorize this as, like, it's time to move on from Rekorded? There's bigger opportunities. There's an opportunity for me to play bigger and make a bigger impact, doing the thing that I'm trying to do.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:22:11]:
I think there's also a conflict there in my head. Is it a failure? Is it not because. Well, I think because failure completely depends on perception, and your perception of things can change. So I think when I made the decision at the time, it definitely did feel like it was a failure. It was like, okay, I set out to start this business. Even though it was an experiment, it still didn't work out, because if it worked out, I would still be doing it. But right now, I do feel like it was a big stepping stone. I mean, so much of my time during that year and a couple months I was spending learning that can be a failure.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:22:50]:
I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it was for the best. So I don't even know if I should be saying, you know, is it a failure or not? It's just. It is what it is. I learned from it, and it helped me get to where I am now, and I'm grateful for that. So it's like, I don't think there's too much of a point of saying whether it's a failure or nothing.
Nick Bennett [00:23:11]:
I think one of the things that I respect about what you were doing here was like, as the well started to dry up, you were like, I need to earn an income. And so you reached out to Black Hamill. What did you ask them for?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:23:28]:
Well, so, yeah, that was actually interesting because I was thinking, I was like, okay, maybe I should just look for a job, like a traditional way, you know, like that freelance gig to kind of keep me going. And then I was talking to a friend. She was like, why don't you just ask people in your network? I was like, why didn't I think of that? And so I had a whole bunch of people that I know that already trust me, might as well ask them. And it turned out this guy had been consuming my content for a year and trusted me a ton, enough to have given me equity in his agency that he had worked for two years. I have referred at least ten people to you because of what you say. It's true. When you niche down, solve a specific.
Nick Bennett [00:24:12]:
Problem, you've said the word problem more than me. First of all, it's important to really unpack how you started chatting with the owner of black panel, because a lot of people are afraid to go and ask. Now, this opportunity became something more, but you were just trying to run your business and earn a living. You weren't seeking the opportunity that it became. You were looking for work, and you knew you could help them, but you reach out. So you had already known this person or you had conversations. Have they? You, have you done work for them before? And then it turned into this other thing was, which was he was looking for somebody to come in and be the other half. You decide, let's do it.
Nick Bennett [00:24:58]:
So you're at Black Camel now, and your point of view has really just expanded. You're talking about the exact same stuff. And I think it's even more visceral because it's so much more pointed now than it was, because it's all about this idea of problemotional advertising, which is highly tangible, like, you can see it versus you can feel it, which was all the other stuff it was always about. How did the words you say make people feel and perceive? Versus. This is such a highly visual thing that it's become so much easier for you to communicate the problem you're trying to make visible for people. And it's interesting because you're still very. In a very entrepreneurial role because you're now a partner in this business. So I would say, just also, looking back, not a failure.
Nick Bennett [00:25:50]:
Like, I think it definitely allowed you to become to do something greater and make a bigger impact. The idea that you came in and like maybe your title is marketing director, but I think your seems like you're really leading the charge there with your point of view. That has got to be really cool to see an entire organization of how many employees like rally around this idea and really shift their entire strategy around your approach.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:26:18]:
Why Rekorded was a clear stepping stone is because we had aligned point of views because he framed the problem. So we both agreed on what the problem was because of this. So before me they were always talking about how so much of b two b ads are just so boring, webinars, ebook ads, and they just look the same and they're boring. And my point of view is that your solution is not a solution without a problem. And you need to market the problem in the top of funnel advertisements to become seen as the solution. And we kind of put that together. You can't market your solution in a really boring, rational way. The solution is to do it.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:27:03]:
Problemotional ads market the problem in an emotional way. And so we already kind of agreed in that way. So I kind of had the message part of the ad point of view and he had the how so make it fun, funny, memorable.
Nick Bennett [00:27:19]:
It feels more like a merger than it does anything else. And I think back to the basics of what we've been talking about. It's like it's all how you position and perceive things. Perception is like this seems way more like a merger, regardless of what you want to call it or the paperwork that was there wasn't involved. It's like you came on board because they wanted to acquire the intellectual property that you were pushing, that you had.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:27:45]:
I mean, if you look at my LinkedIn content, the message that's being put out there only changed slightly. It changes slightly to be more about advertising than organic content, but it's still talking about marketing the problem.
Nick Bennett [00:27:57]:
I think it's an interesting journey, man, because there are a lot of people out there who are facing a similar situation. They're trying to figure out one do they feel like a failure? Should they hang it up? Should they move on? And like they're trying to navigate that weird spot where the client roster is thinning. How do you go out and try to find more clients and earn more work? And I think you went through all the steps and it became something bigger and it became something so much cooler than what Rekorded was capable of doing. Because black Hamill has way more resources, that more money makes it so much more impactful. And, like, their talent pool is. I mean, it's more than just you. They have a pool of talent, so they can do a ton of stuff. I think you went through the same natural evolution, and the ability to go somewhere and show up as now a partner is really, really cool.
Nick Bennett [00:28:57]:
So what is next? What is being a partner inside of someone's business? How did you negotiate that deal? What was onboarding or reacclimating back into another business? And what does being a partner look like? How does all that kind of take shape for you?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:29:10]:
We are equal partners, but it doesn't quite feel that way. And I think the reason is because I have so much respect for Reagan, who is the partner. He's so experienced. I almost see him as a boss and a mentor. And so even though we come to make equal decisions, you know, we talk to each other about the decisions that we make, I still see them above me. And I think I kind of like that, because, like I was saying, at this point in my career, I just need to learn. I need to learn so much. There's so much I don't know.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:29:45]:
This is great because I get to continue to talk about similar point of view that I had with Rekorded. I get to do the same LinkedIn content, the same stuff that I enjoyed, but now I have more experienced people to help me accomplish it. I feel like there's less self doubt because it's not all on my own shoulders. There's a lot of pressure to being a solopreneur. But I think that this was also just a good opportunity for me to learn in a new position.
Nick Bennett [00:30:16]:
You've mentioned several times in this conversation, like, I'm young, I'm young, I'm young. And that was one of the things that you told me. We first started talking was like, you felt like your age was a limiting factor. And one of the things I told you, and I had a client mention this, I have this feeling of imposter syndrome, like, who needs me? And it's like the version of you two years ago needs you. Like, I think the age factor is not the problem. The problem is who we're trying to target with the things that we know.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:30:47]:
Absolutely no. And like you say, solving the problem to achieve the outcome. People don't care about the deliverable as long as it gets the outcome done.
Nick Bennett [00:30:57]:
Whoever is a step or two behind you in the journey. So there could be 50 year old solopreneurs who are just getting started, who are trying to work through the same, the similar getting started problems that you had to go through, and so they need someone who help, who understands that. And I think there was a bit of a mismatch in some of those elements of, I think what you were trying to do to be able to really drive home that one thing. But, like, being young isn't the problem. It's just there's plenty of room for young people to play, like, and when I say young people, like, you're not twelve, dude, what were some of the details of that? Like, are you a 50 50 partner in this business? I think a lot of people might struggle to negotiate or to structure some of those deals and, you know, title yourself as partner at Black Camel or co founder or whatever. However they titled you. You say you're the marketing director, so.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:31:55]:
It'S basically 49%, 51%. So the typical kind of partnership where he still has the final say in everything, luckily, I think he's experienced in these kinds of things. And so I think one of the first things that he said to me was, it's always easier to get into a partnership, but it's not always easy to get out of one. And I thought that was a really wise thing, and that immediately made me trust him. And so we decided, look, we haven't worked together before, so let's do a bit of a three month trial period or get to know each other period where you're still getting half of everything that comes in, but it's just not official yet. And so we've just ended that. And so things are good, so things will become official legally, but that's kind of a low pressure way of making sure that I wanted to do this, that he wants to do this. So that's kind of how the negotiating went.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:32:56]:
I wouldn't say there was a whole lot of negotiating. It was just off the bat agreement on what things should be.
Nick Bennett [00:33:02]:
Yeah, it's funny, I've talked with a lot of solar panels on this show that are the exiting partnerships to return to solopreneurship, and partnerships that didn't work out for various reasons, but these were basically two solopreneurs teaming up to do something versus the type of partnership that you're entering into. How did you decide, or what were some of the things that you were looking for in this person and this working relationship that helped you decide? This is a two way street. It's not only like you're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. How did you decide? This is the type of person I want to work with, and this is the type of person. I want also as a mentor and to be around, I had to be.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:33:47]:
Very realistic about my strengths and my weaknesses, which is never fun thing to do. Always kind of scary. Although I think I'm pretty, pretty knowledgeable on things, I definitely lack experience. I needed someone that could be a mentor or just help teach me to do sales.
Nick Bennett [00:34:09]:
You just trusted yourself, your intuition, your gut just said, this is the right person to learn from right now.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:34:16]:
I wanted someone that would make up for my weaknesses. It's like he's really enthusiastic, talking, sociable guy, good at sales experience. And I think those are a couple of things that I lack in great, complimentary and, yeah, it just kind of worked out. And as long as he's not telling me I'm doing everything wrong, and I don't think that everything he's doing is wrong, I think it's, it's good enough.
Nick Bennett [00:34:42]:
Things are really starting to gain momentum over there. Talk a little bit about the progress that, that you've made. I feel like it's been three months, and it feels like it's been a lot longer just watching what you've been producing. Talk a little bit about what some of the progress that you've made over there, because I could feel like Black Camel. I hadn't heard of them. I heard about them through you. It seems like they're producing some pretty crazy work.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:35:08]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:35:09]:
Do you feel like it's been able to make an impact in that amount of time?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:35:12]:
I think the first month and a half, it was really, I was going into it not thinking that we would be doing any kind of category design. I was like, okay, it's an agency. And then I realized there's a very clear problem that is out there and there's an emerging category, and we need to frame the problem, name it and claim it. And so that was basically the first month and a half. It was like, okay, what is getting very clear on the point of view, how we're going to get everyone aligned on the team, how we're going to put this into content, how we're going to get clients in the short term, in the long term. So a lot of planning, the first month and a half, but I think a lot of it was already pretty clear because, like, we were talking about our point of views were already pretty aligned. So it was just pretty much putting it into words on a document and talking about all these things, people kind of just get it. When I say problemotional advertising, advertising.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:36:02]:
When we're having a conversation about talking about the problem that your brand solves and how you communicate that. And I think like you were saying, it's just a very tangible thing. You can see the ad, it's very clearly talking about a problem and is doing it in a way that makes you laugh or feel some kind of emotion. And so I've already got some people saying, like just sending me like, oh, look at this problemotional ad. And people already sending each other messages talking about a problemotional ad. And so the languaging here is really catching on. And that was kind of my goal. Definitely getting some good pipeline, interestingly, some from cold outreach, which is something I've always hated with a passion.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:36:51]:
But we've got a good offer. Just basically saying we'll do 20 hours of creative ideation using our problemotional formula. And if you don't want to work with us, then you can just steal the ideas and take them somewhere else.
Nick Bennett [00:37:04]:
I've seen this. We'll give you four to five ideas and you could use them if you want.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:37:09]:
The creative director is the one that's doing that, and he's just so creative and makes the story and the ad just so funny and nails the problem. It's like you're not going to go somewhere else. Like it's, it's a win win that way. It's like you don't feel like we're going to try and sell to you. The work just sells itself.
Nick Bennett [00:37:27]:
You're looking back on all that you've done and how you're and where you're at, based on where you're at right now, is there something that you would have done differently?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:37:35]:
I really would have taken the advice of asking for what you want a lot earlier. I'm an introverted person. I hate selling in a salesy way. And whenever I just talk in conversations that might mention my service, I feel like I'm selling. Even though they might find what I'm saying really valuable. And I think if what you have really solves a problem and achieves an outcome that they want and you're confident about that, make the ask and just go for it. I wish I had done that a lot sooner and had more conversations, made more friends on LinkedIn instead of just posting content. Near bound marketing is something I wish I had also known for that same reason.
Nick Bennett [00:38:20]:
Knowing what you know now and the start of this new chapter, what do you want to build that you haven't done yet? I mean, I know you're in the very early days with Black Camel here, but like, what is what is the vision for this business. What does the future of that business look like, even if it's real fuzzy and real grainy right now? Like, what do you see for it?
Dylan Ciaccio [00:38:47]:
Well, the way I see it is that there is a category of advertisement which no one has really called it. It's problemotional advertising. And b, two c, has been doing it for decades. B, two B has not. And that's where we're trying to make it a thing. You'll see ads out there that aren't that count as prob emotional ads that we didn't do. This is all we're doing, and we're specializing on it. And so I want everyone to know what a pro emotional ad is out there.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:39:17]:
I want it to be a word that is on everyone's mind and know what problem it solves.
Nick Bennett [00:39:23]:
Build the category of prop emotional advertising is a noble, a noble goal. I had a professor in college. He was, like, making fun of these, like, combination words, I think portmanteau, whatever they're called. He was like, if I see if any one of you ever produce work like celebration, I will find you never do that. That is the worst form. Like, celebration is the worst form of advertising and marketing. And I was like, okay, like, just drilled into our brain, don't combine words. I've always just defaulted to not doing it.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:40:02]:
As the category pirate says, the best languaging for a category is combination of the two. You got gamification, podcasting.
Nick Bennett [00:40:10]:
Yeah, I mean, I think 100%. And problem emotional is two things. You did it well. That's all I'm trying to say is, you did it well. And at first, I was like, I don't know, problem emotional, is it gonna, is it gonna work? Cause the, the true test of any of the languaging is. Doesn't matter how much I like it, how much you like it. It matters if you can put those words in other people's mouths or other people gonna say it, and you've got other people saying it. So I think you're onto something there.
Nick Bennett [00:40:40]:
And to make Black Camel known for this niche, it's already happening. So it's cool stuff, man. I appreciate you coming and hanging out and sharing this story and your journey out of solopreneurship, because it's an interesting one, and I think it's one that a lot of people face and oftentimes probably aren't willing to admit the things that you were faced with. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing it, man.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:41:09]:
Thank you for having me.
Nick Bennett [00:41:16]:
Hey, Nick again, and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the 1000 Routes newsletter, where I process the insights and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up at 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes. What would be your last meal on earth? You knew that was coming.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:41:48]:
Oh. Oh, okay. Well, I actually have a good answer for this. I'm allergic to gluten, so I can't have gluten. And I've always told people that if I'm about to die and I have the option, I'm going to eat the most gluten filled food that tastes so delicious that I've been missing out in my whole life. I think it'd be just a nice gluten filled pizza somewhere in Italy.
Nick Bennett [00:42:12]:
Just a pizza with, like a garlic bread on the side.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:42:17]:
So much garlic bread. And then just some chocolate cake for dessert. Whatever, as long as there's gluten in it.
Nick Bennett [00:42:24]:
Yeah. You know, we take it for granted. My wife and my son can't eat gluten. I'm the only one who gets to have fun. And every time we go out to eat, they've found a lot of gluten free pizza, but every time they order it, you get that. Look at the restaurant. They're like, oh, yeah.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:42:43]:
Oh, you're one of those people. Yeah. Then I'm like, no, no, no. It's. It's for real. Like, I genuinely. I can't eat it.
Nick Bennett [00:42:50]:
And I'm like, hey, do you want to change 15 dirty diapers every day? And they're like, never mind.
Dylan Ciaccio [00:42:55]:
People are quick to judge. Yeah, yeah.