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If you're a spiritually-minded person in the beautiful, messy process of creating your life and asking the hard questions then you just found your people. Middle Ground is hosted by life coach and mom Brynne Erickson, and is a space for the real, honest, sometimes uncomfortable conversations about faith, identity, relationships, health, personal growth and much more. With roots in Latter-day Saint (Mormon) faith and culture, this show explores the full, multidimensional experience of being human and becoming more with genuine curiosity about the many other ways of living and believing. Because the more honestly we see each other, the better we love ourselves and the people around us.
Brynne Erickson (00:29)
Mindy Cope, I am so excited to be chatting with you tonight. How do you feel about being on middle ground?
Mindy (00:36)
am thrilled to be here, Brynn, because we're going to talk about things that I love to talk about. So I'm grateful to be here with you. So fun. So fun.
Brynne Erickson (00:45)
Yes,
it's going to be so great. So my friend and Mindy's friend, Alex, which I interviewed him and his husband Parker on a previous episode, he has told me about Mindy and said, you have to talk to Mindy. She has these ground rules that she lives by that are just so amazing and beautiful and helpful. And so of course I had to reach out to Mindy, but Mindy is an adventure.
Mindy (00:54)
Woo woo!
Brynne Erickson (01:11)
and has been so hard to pin down. So we are grateful after some tech issues that we are finally doing this tonight. So Mindy, it is, I love that. It's all happening for us. So we wanna get to know you a little bit before we dive into learning about your ground rules. This is a podcast about faith and spirituality and becoming. So what is faith to you, Mindy?
Mindy (01:16)
You
It's happening for us. Yeah, honey.
You know, I was thinking about that. I've been pondering that for a while now and what I haven't come up with a clear definition, but I know what it's linked to. It is my level of gratitude. So if I have high levels of gratitude, I have high levels of faith. Like, and when I am in a state or a disposition that's not grateful, my levels are low. So they're interchangeable. They're linked to each other.
I've discovered that recently that they are absolutely 100 % and I can't exactly say what faith really is, but I know that when I live in that state of gratitude, there's nothing that can stop you. But when you aren't in that state of gratitude, it's difficult.
Brynne Erickson (02:28)
So like gratitude means things happen for you.
Mindy (02:32)
Gratitude means that things are everything is for you. Like when you're in a state of gratitude, everything becomes a gift. Like Uchtdorf said, drink from the goblet of gratitude or drink from the bottle of bitterness. You can do either one. You can do either one in life. And I'm like, why would I want to spend any time being bitter? So why don't we find the good in this? Why don't we find the diamond in the coal or the, you ever heard that silly story about the?
kick it and going in the room and there was just this big pile of manure and he starts swimming through it and the guy was like, what are doing? He goes, with all this poop in here, there's gotta be a pony in here somewhere. So that is how I feel about things. There's gotta be a pony in here. I know it.
Brynne Erickson (03:12)
It's awesome.
amazing and I love that it's like a choice like you really you just get to choose no matter the circumstances that's beautiful
Mindy (03:21)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah,
that's how, and I can't even give you a definition of what faith is, but I know I have a lot of it when I'm in a state of gratitude and I don't have very much of it when I'm chugging down the bottle of bitterness. Yeah. Okay.
Brynne Erickson (03:31)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, very cool.
Would you consider yourself a spiritual person?
Mindy (03:45)
I even thought about that one. I thought, that's a difficult question too. I don't feel spiritual, but I have a lot of spiritual goals. ⁓ So I don't know if that makes me a spiritual person or not, but I do have spiritual goals that I'd love to achieve and have been working on for years. ⁓ Charity, charity. I literally pray for the gift of charity every day, because I'm like, that's the only gift that doesn't fail.
Brynne Erickson (04:04)
such as, okay.
Mindy (04:12)
Like that's the only one that just is last the longest, you know, why wouldn't we just ask for that one and who cares about the rest of them, you know? ⁓ So that one I've, I've been praying for charity probably well over 20 years. ⁓ And lately a pure heart like that is required to stand in front of God, see God again. You have to have a pure heart. And then about 10 years ago I was reading in the scriptures and ⁓ it was like,
Brynne Erickson (04:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (04:41)
you have to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And I was like, God, don't know what that truly means. And he gave me a beautiful opportunity. ⁓ I call it my bathroom floor moments in there. A few of those in your life where you're on the bathroom floor and ⁓ that one, I remember rolling over and looking up at the ceiling. And I literally feel like I was being emotionally tasered. And I know what being tasered like because my brother's an eye, my brother, he's a cop.
Brynne Erickson (04:56)
Yeah.
Mindy (05:11)
For a Christmas party one year, we snuck upstairs and he tasered all of us just to see what it was like. And it hurts. It really hurts. so, and it only lasted for like, he said he would only do it for two seconds, but he did it for the full nine seconds. And it was a butt kicker for sure. So I was being tasered emotionally on the bathroom floor, rolled over, looked up at the heavens.
Brynne Erickson (05:15)
my gosh. You guys are so weird.
Wow.
Hmm
Mindy (05:40)
my ceiling in my bathroom and I said, I will say thank you until I mean it. I will say thank you until I mean it. And it took me about a decade to mean it. But I said thank you for it even when I had cognitive dissonance with it. So am I a spiritual person? I don't know, but I do love seeking spiritual gifts out and I do.
I do love Jesus, so I don't know. I don't know. I am, I, yes, I believe in God, Jesus, yes, yes, yes.
Brynne Erickson (06:13)
So would you, you are a religious person then.
Do you participate in church?
Mindy (06:23)
I do, I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I went inactive from the age of 14 to 25 and had a really cool spiritual experience and kind of was like a light switch went on and God said, hey, you're nowhere near where you need to be. And I was like, wow, you're right, I'm not. And there's this kind of history on that one.
Brynne Erickson (06:51)
Do you mind me asking, like, were you seeking that out or did it just find you and you were somehow receptive to it?
Mindy (06:59)
I was not seeking it out. The only thing that I can say that kind of kept me tethered was I have always had a love for the Book of Mormon. And so even when I wasn't going to church, I would read it quite religiously. Like I have journals, like I rewrite the Book of Mormon almost every year in my own words. Like I'll take a verse, rewrite it. And I have journals and journals of me.
when my scripture reading. So I did always read scriptures, ⁓ but wasn't even looking for it or anything. Literally just woke up and you have Bednar talks about faith being like a light switch or the sun coming up over the valley, or you can only see two steps in front of you. This was like a full on light switch and I was almost horrified. Like what have I been doing? ⁓ my gosh. So yeah, it was, and I just went to my husband. I was like, listen,
I have to go back to church and I have to go back now. If you'd like to come with me, great. If not, that's okay too." And he was like, you know what, give me a week to think about it. So was a Friday to a Friday. I went back to him and I was like, what do you think? And he's like, I'm ready to go. And we've gone for 25 years ever since.
Brynne Erickson (08:11)
Really?
That's insane.
Mindy (08:17)
It was crazy. It was so crazy. yeah, but I vividly remember God saying, you are nowhere near where you need to be. And I was like, ⁓ and the wakening and the fear of that just shook me to the core. And I can never not forget that. Does that make sense? Like even if things happen that I don't like or have been wicked painful, which things like that have happened, like my bathroom floor experience, I can't turn away from that.
Brynne Erickson (08:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mindy (08:47)
problem.
Brynne Erickson (08:50)
Hmm, why not?
Mindy (08:52)
⁓ Just because it rocked my world to have the Lord speak to me like that in my mind and tell me I'm nowhere near where I need to be and myself going, ⁓ my gosh, just it just was so powerful to me personally. So I don't know.
Brynne Erickson (09:13)
Have you been discovering what he meant by that? You are nowhere near where you need to be.
Mindy (09:20)
Yeah, because what you do is you just start digging in and you start serving and you just and to me the where I found most of the peace from that is just any opportunity I could serve another human being I would take and
just working on my spirituality, working on making my life ripples be more peaceful to the people around me. And not to say I haven't screwed up royally since then, because I have, but just trying to walk peacefully through life a little bit better. Like I'm super excited for conference because I have my questions and one of my questions is, I've got blind spots and I know I do and I want to see them. Will you tell me what they are and will you not let me defend them?
Brynne Erickson (09:47)
sure. Yeah.
Mindy (10:06)
because everyone, you'll want to defend it. Like you have a reason why you do what you do, but it's a blind spot and it ripples wrong. So I'm kind of nervous for this weekend to see what they are and to not want to defend them and be like, okay, I'll fix it.
Brynne Erickson (10:25)
So just
for those that aren't members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, what is General Conference, Mindy?
Mindy (10:31)
To me, General Conference is an opportunity to go and listen to ⁓ our spiritual leaders of the church, like the prophet and his apostles and the women that guide the church too. So just ⁓ the leaders of our church, they all get together and have a powwow kind of for two days and you kind of go away going, that was way too much for me. I'm going to have to, yes, yes. So, mm-hmm.
Brynne Erickson (10:54)
Yeah, it's a total of eight hours, right? Over two days. And it's a
com it's a broadcast throughout the whole world. And it's pretty cool. Our leaders prepare talks and there's music and anyone can tune in.
Mindy (11:02)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a spiritual feast, spiritual feast.
Brynne Erickson (11:11)
Yeah, happens
in October, the first weekend of October and April every year.
Mindy (11:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Brynne Erickson (11:18)
So it's a
good time. Cool. I love that you're blind spots. Okay. Yeah. I'm excited. ⁓ gosh.
Mindy (11:21)
Yeah, ⁓ I'll let you know what they are too. I mean, you've probably already seen them. ⁓
So it's like, but yeah, I'm excited and a little bit scared because they'll be like, ⁓ I really liked that about me though. You know what I'm saying? ⁓ Yeah, so it might be something.
Brynne Erickson (11:35)
Yeah, yeah. How could this
be something that is maybe holding me back? Yeah.
Mindy (11:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah and or
the the ripple effect you think you're doing good, but it's really harmful to people around you, you know, so Curious I can't wait to see because they promise you it's guaranteed you will get the answers to your questions Yeah, yeah, so that would be it thanks
Brynne Erickson (11:53)
Yes.
when you're looking for them, right? I love that. What
else has contributed to your life to getting to you to where you are today? Anything else you wanna share with us?
Mindy (12:14)
You know, probably just family. My mom's influence, my dad's influence, my parents, you know, just that. Yeah, just the regular stuff of your loved ones around you, so.
Brynne Erickson (12:26)
Have
you always cherished that relationship even when you had distanced yourself from the church?
Mindy (12:31)
No, no. Parents
were enemies for a long time to me. Yeah, so no, not till... Even church members were. remember not even... I was kind of embarrassed to say I was a member of the church for a long time. and I... Yeah. So no, it's been back and forth. Like, yeah. No, not always the good relationships. Especially through the teenagers. So, yeah.
Brynne Erickson (12:36)
Okay.
Yeah.
Mindy (13:02)
But like I said when we talking earlier, I have been a rule breaker since the day I was born. but I'm fun. I'm so fun. So yeah.
Brynne Erickson (13:07)
Yeah.
You are so fun. Yes.
Okay, so what guides you as you make decisions?
Mindy (13:23)
⁓ What guides me? That's a good question too. I mean, you know, you're gonna, if you're member of the church, you're gonna say the Spirit for sure, but it takes a minute to be able to hear the Spirit. So you have to learn how to hear it. ⁓ I do have some ground rules I think we'll talk about in a little bit that they're huge to my guidance.
Brynne Erickson (13:25)
Yeah.
Mindy (13:49)
But I also think that Heavenly Father brought those into my life because I thought Heavenly Father if I ever have to share this hard experience that I went through or how I got out of it, what would that look like? How would I share that with people? And this is how they were discovered. And they weren't my ground rules. Like I didn't create them. I just gathered them from other people. And I would think what a friend asked me the other day, they were like, well, how do I make my own ground rules? I was like,
Brynne Erickson (14:09)
Okay. Yeah.
Mindy (14:19)
Never thought about that. So I encourage people to go out and figure out what their ground rules are, but I'll share the ones I've discovered. And if you want to take them with you, great. And if you don't, you need some different ones, that's great too.
Brynne Erickson (14:20)
Hmm.
Awesome. Yeah, before we head that direction, what is the spirit to you?
Mindy (14:37)
What is the spirit to me?
Brynne Erickson (14:39)
How
would you teach someone what the spirit is if they'd never heard of that concept before?
Mindy (14:48)
I want to give you a really good answer. The spirit to me, it guides me.
Brynne Erickson (14:50)
You
Mindy (14:57)
For a long time, I would ignore the spirit and listen to the loudest personality in the room and use them as the guiding light. Does that make sense? Whether it be my mom or my dad or my husband or whatever authority kind of person there was there. Okay. And then one day I had my own little, what I call, life's like a snow globe. It's often prettier once it's turned upside down.
Brynne Erickson (15:08)
Okay.
Okay.
Mindy (15:23)
And I had my little snow globe moment and realized that I had been hushing the cute little inner voice inside of me that has always been there. And I've just mushed it for years and years and years. So within the last 10, 15 years, when I really honed in on it and listened to the inner voice, it doesn't matter if it conflicts with the ones, the loud ones outside of me anymore. It's like, no, I have to live to that integrity in my heart from now.
Brynne Erickson (15:34)
Hmm.
Mindy (15:53)
And so that to me is me listening to the Holy Ghost through me instead of listening it through to other people. Does that make sense at all?
Brynne Erickson (16:03)
Yeah, and you brought up something so interesting because you said that the loudest people in the room were actually like people of really good influence and sound advice and opinions and perspective.
Mindy (16:10)
Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yes, and so I didn't even learn how to trust in my own because theirs was better. Yeah, so then when I learned my own, was like, no, she rocks. And she tells me exactly where I need to go and what I need to do and how to help me. And when I learned to listen to her, but I do think it's the Holy Spirit talking to me, know, telling me how to listen to my own self.
Brynne Erickson (16:21)
Well, yeah.
Mindy (16:43)
and trust in the way I can do things and the decisions I can make. So it was a fun discovery. So, yes.
Brynne Erickson (16:50)
It's scary though, like especially
for me, where I'm at is when it contradicts like the prophet. Then I'm been like, ⁓ man, this must be wrong. This must be from an evil power source. Because, but then when I really got curious about these thoughts, like could our gay brothers and sisters,
Mindy (16:58)
Sure. Sure.
from another source.
Brynne Erickson (17:18)
not actually be inferior and could, I know, but like, I know, but these were things that I believed growing up for whatever reason. I don't remember the sources they came from, but I believed them. And I remember thinking, could this actually not be true? And it felt big and scary, but it like felt so right. Like my heart just felt so full.
Mindy (17:21)
Well, they're not, right? No one's inferior. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah.
Right. Yes.
Brynne Erickson (17:47)
of love and peace. I was like, well, I really like how I feel believing this thought that God loves everybody exactly as they are. So I'm going to keep that and keep moving forward in that direction. And it's proven to serve me. So.
Mindy (17:53)
Yeah.
Yes.
go with it. And you say that?
Yes. Well, and I even think about that as women. Like, we've always, I've always thought of us as inferior to our priesthood authority. Do you know what I'm saying? And then one day it was like, no, and there's no, no oppression. Like, there's just, that's when I feel oppressed, I'm like, okay, there's something wrong here. We're not supposed to oppress each other. We're supposed to love and encourage and help each other. There's no.
Brynne Erickson (18:12)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mindy (18:29)
you listen to me and I'm pushing you down. Do you know what I'm saying? So Alex and I have had this conversation where I'm like women, I've, he was like, you know, being gay, it's been hard. And I was like, it's been hard being a woman, you know? And he's like, I totally agree with you, know, it's, ⁓ but to even work through those thoughts of they're a man, they know more than me. They're better. They know better than me too. I'm like, no, no, no, no one knows better for me. I know better for me. So.
Brynne Erickson (18:44)
you
Mindy (18:59)
And to follow that voice, been, it has. walk out, you kind of walk alone for a minute. But what you do find is that it's very harmonious, you know, if you do dare listen to it. So, yeah, and it's so fun. It is, and then you're just like, that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. ⁓
Brynne Erickson (19:11)
Yeah, to trust yourself. It's scary. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. And then it gets easier and then you're like,
I could never go back to anything else. Yeah.
Mindy (19:23)
And then you build that confidence that they talk
about like wax strong and the confidence of the Lord and you're like, yeah, me and him, we've got this great relationship. I can hear him all the time. So yeah, it's good stuff. It makes me happy. Yeah.
Brynne Erickson (19:31)
Yes.
Yep, it is good stuff. Me too. ⁓
I love it. Okay, well, I'm really excited to learn about your ground rules and how we can apply them and what they are. So let's do it.
Mindy (19:45)
Okay.
Brynne Erickson (19:48)
And Mindy, where did these come from again?
Mindy (19:49)
the first.
Well, I had what I told you, bathroom floor experience, and I'd realized that my thinking wasn't...
It was poor thinking, poor thinking patterns. There was a better way to look at life. Does that make sense? And I realized that I had an unhealthy way of looking at life. But to say that I've always felt like I was an extremely positive, cheerful person. But I also realized that I feel like there's a better way, you know, and just after that, that experience on the bathroom floor is like, there's just gotta be a better way. There's just gotta be. So I started on this 10.
10 year journey of ⁓ finding kind of brain hacks. I don't know if I like that, but just ground rules that ⁓ really, really worked for me, really stuck, really changed my life. So the first one is this is happening for you and not to you. And I know that there's lots of people who have had traumatic, awful experiences and I don't say, ⁓
Brynne Erickson (20:52)
Yes.
Mindy (20:56)
To me, you have to practice small. It's like when you ride a bike, you don't just go get on a dirt bike and go jump off big jumps and stuff like that. You get training wheels and you learn how to ride the bike and then you take the training wheels off and you get better and better and better at it. So to me, if you ever take on these ground rules, start small with small things like standing in a grocery store line. Don't go for your biggest traumatic experience and be like, that's garbage, Mindy. That's not true.
This isn't happening for me. This is the worst thing in the world, you know? So to me, I had to start small. And so I just was like, OK, this is happening for me, not to me. And then another way you could look at it is, why not me? Something has to happen to everybody in the world. Somebody has to get divorced. Somebody has to have someone die in their life. Somebody has to have this experience. Why is it that I'm above that? I'm not.
So if it's going to happen to me, it's going to happen for a reason. ⁓ one of the small reasons, cute reasons was it was Mother's Day and ⁓ I was in charge of my mom's side of the family's dinner, which consists of about 50 people. had all my little ministry and gifts that I wanted to pass out and ⁓ I got a big huge spider bite on my.
And I have a picture of it. I wish I could show you it because I'm looking at it right now and my foot just blew up and turned purple and black and blue and and I couldn't walk on it and I was like I have too much to do right now and I can't walk on this darn thing and So I was like, okay, let's just practice Brown rule number one. This is happening for me
Brynne Erickson (22:27)
my gosh.
Mindy (22:41)
So I was like, well, look at it. It's really pretty. The colors on my foot are pretty. The purple's pretty. Black's pretty. The blue's pretty, you know? And that's cool. And then I made up a poem about spiders and how probably the white spider was as equally scared of my big fat foot coming on it, you know? And made this cute poem up. And then I was just sitting there kind of elevating it and trying. And my mood was getting better. And then my husband walked in and he was like, wow, what happened to your foot?
I was like, I got bit by a spider and I have all these things to do. And I'm one that has a lot of projects going on a lot. So, ⁓ and he hates them. Like he's like, my gosh, not another project, you know? And he looks at me and he's like, I will do those things you need today. And I just wept because I thought I would have taken 20 spider bites for that loving reaction from him. And it only took one.
Brynne Erickson (23:18)
You
Hmm.
Mindy (23:37)
It only took one spider bite. So just small, start small like that or in the grocery store line. Like if it's long, it's like, the person in front of me is probably a friend I need to meet or the person behind me. Like start small where, how could this be happening for you? How could this circumstance actually be benefiting your life? So that's ground rule number one. Any thoughts on that?
Brynne Erickson (23:49)
Hmm.
Hmm. Okay.
Mindy (24:03)
okay.
Brynne Erickson (24:03)
Well, I like the
words to the words of four versus happening for me versus to me. versus because a lot of at least my thought process used to be like God gives you trials and I don't think he gives them to us, but he allows them to happen. And so it's not like you deserve this or even you need this.
Mindy (24:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hi-yah, yah.
Brynne Erickson (24:31)
But obviously everything happens and we become who we become by them and through them. But I don't know, I just kind of think that there's more power and like I actually can choose how to react in this circumstance and how to handle it. Yeah.
Mindy (24:34)
Yeah.
Yes, then I love free agency. Yeah.
And there's a choice in every single scenario. There's always a choice. So it's like, yeah. ⁓ Let's see. Yeah, that one. Yeah. And some of the ground rules, they're a little tricky for people and a little heavy for people. people want to push it because ⁓ it's just maybe doesn't suit them. But that's OK.
Brynne Erickson (24:55)
There is...
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (25:15)
This was just merely Lord if I ever wanted to share this with someone what does this look like? that was it. So the next one is any negative thought is a lie it piggybacks on this is happening for you not to you because you'll be thinking negatively like This shouldn't have happened to me. ⁓ So I read a book from Carol Tuttle remembering wholeness and
Brynne Erickson (25:21)
I love it. Okay.
Mindy (25:44)
There were some good pieces in it that I really, really liked. And she said, we are not powerless. We are not inferior. We are not inadequate. We are not all of the thoughts and feelings that make us feel uncomfortable, disappointed, discouraged, worthless, and incapable. And then she talks about how ⁓ she talks to her clients and they would feel, let me see, being chunky, choppy right now.
The reason they are feeling negative emotions is because they are believing what they are not and it's very uncomfortable to exist in a lie. The negative emotion is meant to be a warning bell ringing within us sending us this message warning warning what you are currently believing and thinking is a lie continue to believe it and think it and you will feel worse and worse and worse. So I use that to know when I need to knit and maybe one day we'll talk about worksheets but these are some things that really help me.
root myself out of any kind of hole or rut that I find myself in. And when I catch myself thinking a lie or a negative thought, it's like an alarm bell, like I've been out playing on recess and now it's time to go back into school and learn. It's time to go back into this life school that we're a part of and learn something about myself and learn something about the people around me. And so I look forward to it sometimes where I'm like, okay.
I'm believing this negative thought. I'm believing this about this person or about me. Let's get a little curious about it. I guess recess is over. So I'm going to come in here and learn a little bit. And then you get a little break from it. You get to go back out to recess. So I use those negative thoughts as an alarm system. I really liked how she called it that in her book.
Brynne Erickson (27:29)
How do you change those negative thoughts then?
Mindy (27:32)
The changing comes with the worksheets, is that's if you're ready for the ultimate ⁓ personal responsibility experience, you'll want to do these with me one day. And they just really show you your part. You don't have. And then they show you where you don't have to take on everybody else's part. Like literally where you didn't show up in that situation where you wanted to and how to fix that. But you and you're never worried about.
Brynne Erickson (27:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (28:01)
what the others are doing around you, it's how you show up to the circumstance. So that was the next step in my life, was anything negative thought as a lie. And then the third one is my most favorite. And this comes from a woman named Byron Katie. And there are three types of business, my business, your business, and God's business. And I'm going to read you a little quote from her.
Brynne Erickson (28:05)
Your integrity, yeah.
Hmm. Okay.
Mindy (28:29)
She says, much of our stress comes from mentally living out of our own business. When you think you need to get a better job, I want you to be happy. You should be on time. You need to take better care of yourself. I'm in your business. When I'm worried about earthquakes, floods, wars, diseases, Corona, you know, when we talk about COVID or when I will die, I'm in God's business. And if I'm mentally in your business or in God's business, the effect is separation and loneliness.
Brynne Erickson (28:50)
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (28:59)
If you are living your life and I'm mentally living your life, who's here living my life? We are both over there. Being mentally in your business keeps me from being present in my own. And so then I'm sitting here wondering why my life doesn't work and it's because I'm too worried about being in your life. and then the next part to that one, which is my most favorite, and a lot of people struggle with this, especially when they have young kids. So I say to them, you know what?
Brynne Erickson (29:05)
Yes.
Yeah. Yep.
Mindy (29:26)
Plug it in where it works for you. I mean, at least try and start it with your peers. Like, start it with your peers. Of course we have to take care of our children. But here's the quote, and I freaking love this one so much. says, to think that I know what is best for anyone else is to be out of my business. Even in the name of love, it is pure arrogance, and the result is tension, anxiety, and fear. Do I know what's right for me? That is my only business.
Brynne Erickson (29:31)
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (29:55)
Let me work with that before I try to solve your problems for you. So I just love that. And I catch myself and I'm like, how am I showing up? Do I have tension, anxiety or fear? I then realized something's wrong with the situation. If I can't show up in love because perfect love casts out all fear. So I'm like, if I can't show up in love, then I know there's a worksheet out there for me to do. There's an alarm bell going off if I'm showing up in any one of those three moods of tension, anxiety or fear.
Brynne Erickson (30:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mindy (30:25)
which I love. So I do, think, what's right for me in this situation? What do I need to do in this situation? Not what are they doing? So that's my favorite rule is your business, God's business. Cause I realized that I functioned in everybody else's business a lot and I didn't even realize it. No. Right, right. So I just, ⁓ and then that's what I think about like social media is just
Brynne Erickson (30:32)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mm-hmm, and you have no control you have zero control there
Mindy (30:51)
everyone being in each other's business and I'm like, that's so messy. I can't even be a part of it. So yeah, that's one of my favorite. Okay. You're ready for a ground rule number four.
Brynne Erickson (30:53)
Yes.
Yes, totally.
Before we do that, I love Byron Katie. She has such good stuff.
Mindy (31:06)
I love her too.
Well, and she's where I get the worksheets from. So yeah, yeah. I literally listen to her every day because if someone's doing a worksheet, that worksheet helps me out too. And I know that that doesn't mean anything to anybody, but she does these things and they just mentally unknot your knots in your mind and just gives you the freedom that I just love. yeah. Okay.
Brynne Erickson (31:10)
okay.
Mm-hmm.
Awesome. Let's go on to number four.
Mindy (31:36)
All right, and so a lot of this comes from Byron Katie too. So if you can see it in others, it's in you. And that one's a hard one for people. ⁓ If there's something you like about another person, it's because you're recognizing it in yourself, but that also goes with the negativity. Like everyone is a mirror image of yourself, your own thinking coming back to you, back at you. And my cute husband's like, well, what if I see a murderer and I know he's a murderer?
Brynne Erickson (31:39)
Okay, cool.
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (32:06)
Does that make me a murderer? And I was like, well, have you ever taken, like, have you killed a buck? Like, you've taken that life and thought it wasn't of value. So I get that you've never taken the act of killing a human, but the thought of this life is not valuable is kind of the same thing. Do you know what I'm saying? ⁓ But so.
Brynne Erickson (32:24)
Hmm. Yeah. Yes.
Mindy (32:30)
You think about the relationships in your life that you've murdered that don't function anymore that you've not treated well kind of the same thing But that's just the extreme of it. So like when I find that I'm Someone shows up angry and I match their anger. That's because the anger was already there But when someone shows up angry and I'm not angry in any way shape or form I'm like, ⁓ so the other day my daughter and I we there's a man that
We were at the stop and we were waiting for our turn to cross the lanes of traffic and he didn't think we were going as soon as we needed to go. I'm not sure. I can't know for sure what he was thinking. Anyways, he honked his horn and went, ⁓ and shrugged his shoulders. And I was already in such a happy mood that I course, gump waved him like, hi, ⁓ which probably irritated him even more. So then he just shot across the traffic, cut us off, flipped us off and drove off. And I just started laughing hysterically because
Brynne Erickson (33:18)
You
Mindy (33:26)
I wasn't angry inside, know, so I couldn't match it. But my daughter was your match. was like, Mom, let's go chase him down. Let's key his car. And I was like, no, I'm not even angry. So but I have matched anger before. Do you know what I'm saying? And when you watch something on the news and you get angry about it, it's because it was already there. So if you see it in others, it's in you. So but positively and negatively. So like
Brynne Erickson (33:35)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Yes.
Hmm.
Mindy (33:55)
When I say like here's how I take personal responsibility like back in the day I'd be like, my gosh, that person's so crazy now I would say ⁓ my gosh, I feel very crazy around that person or my thinking is very crazy around that person I'm going to have to go check it and see why so it's that personal responsibility of They don't think they're being crazy. They know exactly why they're behaving the way they are why is it that I can't show up in the situation and neither allow them to be who they are or
Brynne Erickson (34:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (34:25)
walk away and stay in my own business. So this was one of them is if you can see that that was just huge for me. was like, my gosh, that's so true for me. So.
Brynne Erickson (34:27)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I've heard too that like with the positive things, even if you don't believe that you already have that in you, like you value that thing in them.
Mindy (34:43)
Yeah.
Well, and here's,
if you wouldn't recognize it, if you didn't. So it's like, if you just stared at them when they were bouncing off, like you would have to say, I love this about you. And it is because that you've seen it and that you've experienced it in your own life. So it may not be a huge strength yet, but it's there. It's there wanting to burst out and be you. So number five is you have everything you need in this moment.
Brynne Erickson (34:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
There you go. I love that.
Mindy (35:15)
And this comes from Byron Katie too. And I love it because it's like the reason why you don't think you have everything you need in this moment is either because you're worried about the future or you're worried about something in the past. But if you were to bring yourself right to the present moment and be like, I've got air in my lungs. I've got a chair that I'm sitting on. I've got this jacket to keep me warm.
Brynne Erickson (35:32)
Mm.
Mindy (35:41)
got water if I need it. It was so funny. And then she, Byron Katie says, how do I know I don't need it? I don't have it. And I was like, oh, I love that too. Like if I don't need it, it's because I don't have it. So we were walking through the forest one day and my thirst was just on fire. Like I was so thirsty. I was like,
Brynne Erickson (35:51)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mindy (36:04)
There's not a drink for miles around. So I was practicing this ground and I have everything I need in this moment. I just say no or no again. if I don't have it, it's because I don't need it. And ⁓ I'm just trying to stay in the state of gratitude because really all of these things just try to keep you personally responsible and in a state of gratitude, you know? And ⁓ I come up over the hill and I kid you not, there is a little drinking fountain in the middle of nowhere.
Brynne Erickson (36:10)
Uh-huh.
the forest.
Mindy (36:33)
of
the forest with a little outhouse right next to it. like, oh my gosh, Heavenly Father, you are the cutest little stinker in the whole wide world. I was so freaking thirsty. Yes. So I believe that 100%. And if you can stay mindful instead of mindless, you stay in that moment and be in the present and just be in that state of gratitude. Like you're okay. You're okay. No matter what.
Brynne Erickson (36:37)
That's amazing.
I love that. ⁓ Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
Well,
and then you are able to recognize the next thing that you need. Like, you could have been like, that water's gross. I'm not going to drink that water, right? I need bottled water. Right, exactly. But now you would be like, thank you. Like, I just needed.
Mindy (37:06)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, there's clarity.
Right, right, right, mm-hmm. Right, I need a filtered smart water right now, yeah. Yeah,
I drink a water. Mm-hmm, yep, yep. Mm-hmm.
Brynne Erickson (37:26)
to quench my thirst and this will do it. So you're able to being open for
it to come in any form is really fun when you start like looking for it. Like, okay, I know that this is what I need or what I'm supposed to be doing and I'm ready for it. Help me see it and acknowledge it when it comes. And yeah, it's made life so much more exciting for me, like problem solving mode all the time.
Mindy (37:35)
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah,
and if you just started trust in the process, like, okay, I've put my effort in, I've asked Heavenly Father for it, okay, I've done everything on my end, so just wait for it, you know? And it comes, and so yeah, I love it. So how do I know I don't need it, what I want? I don't have it. So I was just like, well, I guess I don't need a drink right now, even though my body's telling me it does, you know? So just small little things like that. You practice small.
Brynne Erickson (37:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
That's good.
Crazy. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mindy (38:22)
So when the big comes, you're ready. I talk about like Dave Ramsey. You know how he talks that, do you know Dave Ramsey? Okay, so he talks about getting out of, yeah, the finance guy. he's like, get the smallest debt paid for first. And then you can use that for the next one and that for the next one. So then when the big one comes, you almost don't even know it. Like you've paid off your house and you're like, that was so easy. Do you know what I'm saying? That's kind of what these ground rules are for me too. Baby steps, baby steps. And then when the big comes and you've already got all of these in place, you're like, I know how to handle
Brynne Erickson (38:27)
I'm familiar with them, yeah. Finance guy.
Right. Baby steps.
Mindy (38:52)
I can do this. I've got all the skills, you know, so yes, there we go. Okay, so the next one. Do I have you on pins and needles or what? Okay, this one I adore. Like it's hard to really put them in order of value. So the next one is ⁓ love and loving what is. Have you heard Byron Katie talk about loving what is?
Brynne Erickson (38:53)
Yeah.
Yes.
I love it. Yes.
I can't recall. Probably not then.
Mindy (39:19)
Okay,
so one of her most favorite things is when you argue with reality, you lose, but only 100 % of the time. Yes, and so it's like she's kind of just saying love what is. Like this is how it's supposed to be. Like love how it is. Be grateful for this how it is and find what's good about it and put the rest away. There's always a pony in the poo.
Brynne Erickson (39:26)
I've heard that quote. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (39:47)
And there is always a diamond in that hole, in that darkness. There is always. ⁓ then the love, that's loving what is. I remember standing there, I, cause I would say these rules over and over in my head and we were standing in Jerusalem and it was as hot as pot can be and I hate the heat. And my friend came up to me, goes, what are you doing? go, I'm just loving what is. I'm really, really trying to love this hot and the sweat and all of it. And she's like,
Brynne Erickson (40:06)
Mm-hmm.
You
Mindy (40:16)
Okay, I'm just going leave you alone then. I was like, okay. But just practicing loving what is and even in hard situation. I promise you I've done it in hard, but I don't want to bog people down with hard right now. Like I just, this came from despair. I promise you. Then the next one is just love. She talks about, this is my most favorite thing too. And it comes from her. If I had a prayer, it would be this.
Brynne Erickson (40:22)
Yeah.
Right?
Mindy (40:43)
God, spare me from the desire for love, approval, or appreciation. And so then when I heard that, I started really checking on my intentions and why I do what I do. Am I doing it because I want you to like me? And most of the times, that's why I was doing it. So then all of a sudden, I stopped giving gifts. I cut things down dramatically. I was like, OK, I want to do this because I genuinely want to do this, not because I want something from you.
So she talks about a little girl in the sandbox little girl does a little somersault and Just so pleased with herself. So she does it again. Well some kids around her cheer And so the next second she does it again that third time she loses the awareness of love because she wants it from the outside She wants their love approval or appreciation and now has forgotten that she already is love and she already can do it all on her own Does that make sense? so
Brynne Erickson (41:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mindy (41:39)
That's how in life I have to watch myself. Why am I doing this? Am I doing this for the love of giving my love or do I want something in return? so really, I had to cut friends out. I had to cut a lot of things out to get that really straight in my life. it affected every single relationship around me starting to live by these ground rules. And I remember my mom going, your whole personality has changed.
Brynne Erickson (41:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (42:08)
And I go, no, you're finally just getting to meet the real me. So, and starting to listen to my inner voice and going, why are you doing this? You don't need their love, approval or appreciation, but you can give them love. Do you know what I'm saying? And so even with my mom, sorry, what were you gonna say?
Brynne Erickson (42:11)
Hmm.
Yes.
Well, I was gonna
say there's not even a guarantee. Again, it's you trying to control their feelings. And you have no control over that, sure. There are typical actions that have general outcomes, right? But still, it's like manipulating people. Yeah.
Mindy (42:28)
Mm-mm. No. Yeah. Right. And then you get disappointed. Mm-mm. Yeah.
Sure. It is, 100%.
Well, and I was like, my mom was one of the main people in my life that I would just do anything for her because I wanted her love, approval, or appreciation. And then one day I was like, I don't want that from her anymore. And I would give her my love just because I wanted to, but she noticed the difference and it kind of scared her just because she was used to, we were used to this dance that we had with one another, you know?
But now it's like, I can say no and not in a mean way, only in a loving way. know, like, no, this won't benefit you or me and I want to be true. So no, but mostly it's yes, because it's fun to just love. So there is a new boundary there that I've never had before that I adore because of that. God, spare me from the desire for love, approval and appreciation. So that's
Brynne Erickson (43:29)
Yes.
Yeah, and I love that
when you start taking radical responsibility, that's what my aunt says, radical responsibility for your own life, you then allow others to live theirs.
Mindy (43:45)
Love it.
Yes. Well, and it's funny because ⁓ the rule is I don't go anywhere unless I'm to be my best self. I don't expect my husband to. We used to be like, okay, you have to come to this. This is a family activity or this is this. ⁓ Finally, I was like, no, the new rule is I want you to be your best self. Wherever that is, is where I want you to be. If it's with me, great. If it's not with me, great. Wherever it is.
And so he didn't trust it at first because that's not how we run. We didn't run like that. And so like Sunday dinners would come up and my mom has another house every, and there's 50 of us there. And I'm like, you don't have to go. And he's like, really? But then when I don't want to go, just know it's not because I don't love you or them around me. It's because I'm not sure I'm my best self. So now that's my whole family's like, where's your spouse? they can't be their best selves here today. And we all understand it now, but before it was before.
Brynne Erickson (44:35)
Yes.
Yeah, they needed to break
like whatever it is, right? Yes. I love that.
Mindy (44:46)
Yeah. And people don't take it personal like, why aren't they here? You know? So
it's been fun to watch everyone in my family slowly take that on, but I used to get teased for it, like hardcore. But now it's like, no, it's legit and I want you to be your best self. So if it's not with me, that's okay. And if it is with me, that's cool too. So either way we're winning, you know? So yeah. Yes. Me too.
Brynne Erickson (45:09)
I love it. I love that. It's so good. I believe it wholeheartedly. ⁓
Mindy (45:14)
Me too. So that one, okay, let's see. Let's get to the next one. Okay, so the seventh one is take accountability for the way you think, feel, and react, or for in short, don't play the blame game. ⁓ Placing the blame or judgment on someone else leaves you powerless to change your experience. Taking responsibility for your beliefs and judgments gives you the power to change them.
And I have one fun little story about this. We went to Disneyland. What's the ride that used to be in Terror of Terror? it's... Yes. Guardians of the Galaxy. It was that, but they were still kind of remodeling it. We'd stood in line for three hours. And I'm not kidding. It had been three hours, because I'm like, we stood here for all of Church, you know? Because remember when Church was doing three hours?
Brynne Erickson (45:50)
the guardians of the galaxy now.
I believe it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mindy (46:08)
And we were up high and down low there was this spotlight that shined on this bucket of coins. And my daughter and I, I had two quarters in my pocket and I you want to make a wish? And she goes, yeah, let's make a wish. So we made a wish. And all of a sudden the line moved like huge move, like 40 people. So it was like, you know, so we moved up and over and we were right to the front where it was almost our turn to get on the ride. And while we were walking this,
elevator opened up and this cute little black woman that was a Disneyland employee or team member kind of just comes through the line and she's like up to my chest. So she's teeny to me. Okay. I was like, I wonder where she's going. And just passed it on. Okay. And then I stood there and the light, the light, the ride is really, really loud. And all of a sudden I could hear this
Brynne Erickson (46:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (47:06)
yelling just in the back of my ear, like just in the back of my head almost. And I could see this Disneyland employee yelling at these three girls with Mickey ears, kind of where we were standing. And I was like, wonder what she's yelling at. And there's like 40 people away from me. They're kind of far away and I'm surprised I can hear this. And all of a sudden the spirit says to me, hey Mindy, she's looking for you.
And I was like, in that moment I was like, okay, I can cower out right now. She'll never find me. I can go face it and see what it is. And I was like, and that's one of those things that I struggled with is being a coward in my life. And I say that, it sounds harsh, but I just, it's something I don't want to be, okay? And so I was like, no, go face it. Go see what that's about. So I weaved my way back through the crowd, tapped her on the shoulder and I said, hey.
Brynne Erickson (47:52)
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (48:02)
I think you're looking for me." And she goes, are you the one who's Ruth of Quarters? And I'm like, yeah, we've been standing in line for three hours and ⁓ we just want to make a wish. And she goes, do you know that you can get thrown out of Disneyland for that? And I was like, and I had heard this inspirational speakers talk about ⁓ your mind doesn't know the difference between fear and happiness until you label it. So if you were to just say, this is exciting.
to everything, it would change the circumstance automatically. So I had been practicing that for years already. So all of a sudden my mind was like, oh, this is exciting. I have never been kicked out of Disneyland before. So I said to her, and I don't even talk like this, I said, you know what, if you think that serves justice, let's go ahead and do it. Let's go ahead and kick me out. And she was like,
Brynne Erickson (48:42)
You
Mindy (48:59)
like totally caught off guard with that response. And she goes, well, you seem like you're sorry enough. Just don't ever do that again. And I was like, okay, I am so sorry. I hope your day gets better. And she left and I left. And then I went back to my mom. And usually I'm a very confrontational, get into fights with people kind of person. And my mom was like, what was that? And I was like, mom, I do these worksheets. I have these ground rules.
Brynne Erickson (49:12)
huh.
Mindy (49:29)
Changed my life and she's like I really want to do these with you, Mindy and so And then I went back and apologized to the three little girls that had gotten yelled at I'm like I'm so sorry that my actions my ripple hurt you and Please forgive me and then we would run into people all throughout Disneyland the rest of the day and just kind of check a like you're the girl who almost got kicked out of Disneyland like there were like 20 people that we just keep running into all so
Brynne Erickson (49:55)
was funny.
Mindy (49:56)
But I just took accountability for the way I thought felt in that moment. I could have taken on her anger. could have been like, you know, I could have done, there could have gone so many other ways, but because I've been practicing these rules, because I enjoy taking on my own personal responsibility, that it was super fun experience to just be like, hey, kick me out of Disneyland. Let's see what that looks like. Cause that's never happened. I would love that.
Brynne Erickson (49:59)
Hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
⁓ Yeah.
Mindy (50:25)
But yeah, I attribute it to all of those things. So those are my seven ground rules.
Brynne Erickson (50:32)
I love it.
Mindy (50:33)
Yeah, they're good stuff. And it doesn't end there, but that's where it ends for the ground rules. Does that make sense? Yeah, there's like so much more, but you just got the surface. Yeah.
Brynne Erickson (50:34)
It is good stuff.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay, cool. Are you
a coach by any means?
Mindy (50:48)
Do you know what, it's been funny that you say that, because you know how things just kind of land in your lap? Like I have, the reason I went back to school to get the psychology degree and become a therapist is because I wanted to get rid of that, what is that called that, ⁓ when you feel like a fake? What's the word? Imposter, yes, imposter syndrome. was like, I'm just gonna go get rid of that, I'm gonna get myself a degree, and then we'll teach this stuff.
Brynne Erickson (50:52)
Yeah.
Imposter Syndrome?
Mindy (51:15)
Lately, I've had so many opportunities, like I have had so many opportunities to teach this already that I'm like, okay, but I do live by it. So I don't feel like an imposter, but it's not necessarily not everybody's thing. They may not be ready for it or that might not be their line of thinking, but they have been, these seven rules have been so powerful to me that, ⁓ and then just increase the happiness in my life.
exponentially that I just might. They're awesome. So if they work for you, run with it. And if they don't, I hope you find your own that bring you joy, you know, so yeah, yeah. Mm I love it because I mean to have that personal freedom and stuff. I want everyone to have that. So yeah, whatever that looks like for each person. So anyways, there they are.
Brynne Erickson (51:50)
Yeah. Yeah. Start your own quest, searching for your own ground rules, right?
breath. Yep. Yeah.
So good, Mindy. You've done good work.
Mindy (52:15)
It's been fun. It's been hard though. So yeah, I don't want people to think that it just came from willy-nilly, but it came from the deepest depths of my heart for sure.
Brynne Erickson (52:27)
Yeah,
and then you got intentional on creating the life that you truly wanted.
Mindy (52:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, and just started being super mindful instead of mindless and not reacting just for the sake of reacting. But hey, wait a minute. Let's hold off and see what this really is, you know. So, yeah.
Brynne Erickson (52:43)
Yeah. Getting
curious about your thoughts and reactions and it's powerful stuff.
Mindy (52:48)
Yes, yes, it
is. It is. It's so, and it's so much fun. Like it's such a fun journey because when you're in charge of you, ⁓ is so awesome. Yeah. So anyways, yeah.
Brynne Erickson (52:55)
Yes.
Yep. I've been learning that as well.
So, and Byron Katie is a great mentor. She's got lots of good books out there. She's been interviewed on tons of podcasts. So I would encourage people to look her up as well. It's a good starting ground.
Mindy (53:08)
⁓
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And her worksheets that she had.
Yeah. Well, and the thing about it is, is really the beginner person for me was Brené Brown. I guess, yeah, I loved her and vulnerability and all of that. And then with the tool of the worksheets that Byron Katie has that tool. ⁓ if I, if I, if anyone ever went and tried one of her worksheets out, ⁓ they just, if you do it right and you take the time to do it, it actually is something that is the only thing in my life that stuck like that.
Brynne Erickson (53:22)
Brunei, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (53:45)
made a difference in unraveling those thoughts that turn into beliefs and plant in your head like a little garden. You have to weed them out, you know? yeah. Mm-hmm.
Brynne Erickson (53:51)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there's power in that pen and paper and like taking
the time to write out your thoughts. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Are they free resources online that she offers? Okay.
Mindy (53:59)
Yeah, pretty therapeutic. So therapeutic, for sure.
Yeah, yeah, they're free.
Absolutely. yeah, you just can get out. I just type in one belief or judge your neighbor worksheet. You could just type in Byron Katie worksheets and they'll pop up and be free. So.
Brynne Erickson (54:14)
Okay. Yeah.
Okay, well
I'm excited to see where this takes you and what kind of a practice or what you end up helping people with.
Mindy (54:22)
Well...
Well, one day you
and I are going to have to do a worksheet together. Yeah, those are my favorite. They are my favorite to do. So yes, but these these these ground rules get you ready for it because they kind of open your mind because you've got to have an open mind. And the and the worksheets even taught me like, know how Jesus Christ talks about turning the other cheek. I've never ever understood that completely until these worksheets. And then I'm like, ⁓
Brynne Erickson (54:30)
Okay, I'm here for it. Yes, I would love that.
Mm-hmm.
Mindy (54:55)
This is turning the other cheek in a way that you can actually do it and it makes sense and is very clear. So it's exciting. The best is yet to come. Well, thanks for inviting me and letting me verbally throw up on you all my favorite stuff. ⁓ Thank you, sweetheart. ⁓ Bye, hon.
Brynne Erickson (55:04)
Cool. Well, thanks so much, Mindy, for your time and your wisdom, and I really appreciate it.
I took it with grace. loved it. Okay. See ya.