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A narrative podcast from two bird lovers (and friends) exploring all things bird.
I'm Hannah.
And I'm Cleo.
And you're listening to Birds on Birds.
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to Birds on Birds.
It has been so long since I've talked to my lovely friend Hannah, and I am happy to be sitting with you again.
It hasn't been that long, but it's been long for us.
I feel like we go so many weeks where we see each other every week.
Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes multiple times a week.
And then I don't see you for 2 weeks and it feels like I have so many things that have happened between the 1st time I saw you the 1st time between the 1st time.
Yeah.
And what happened since then?
And so it feels like it's been a long time since we've sat down to record, but I think you're right.
It's only been actually like 2 weeks.
Yeah.
But either way, I'm still happy to see you.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so before we get started, as a reminder, timestamps will be in the show notes, if you want to skip what we're up to, no worries, you can find where we start talking about whatever our bird of the week is that is a mystery to me as of right now, there.
Otherwise, Hannah, tell me what you've been up to.
Well, I did want to say really quick.
Our last episode was the Peregrine Falcon, fast as fuck.
And apparently, I was talking to my husband about the bird.
And he said that the Nrail supercomputer, which is a national renewable energy lab in Golden, Colorado.
None of those words were words that I would string together in a sentence.
Yeah.
Well, Chris, that was like Chris's 1st job out of coding school was at the endrail.
But their supercomputer.
So, like, very fast, very, very cool, is named the peregrine because they're the fastest animal.
Wow.
Other than the might.
Can't forget the mite.
You can't forget the mites, but Peregrine is a much cooler name than mite.
Yeah, yeah.
Mighty might.
No, that is really cool, actually.
I love that.
I love that.
No, he was like, did you say that on the episode?
And I was like, since you just told me now, no.
He was like, this isn't public information that everybody's aware of.
They're like, no.
I mean, maybe it's like published somewhere, but I doubt it is something that a lot of people talk about.
I, in all my research, searching Peregrine, it didn't come up.
However, I'm sure if I added computer or some kind of computer.
Computer, show me Pelaguin.
Computer, show me fastest animal.
Remember when I looked up 2nd fastest animals, and then it gave me a whole list of 2nd fastest animals, even though it's a whole category of animals?
That's the 2nd Second best.
I was really just trying to find the 2nd fastest bird.
Yeah, just for comparison, but then all the animals it gave me were 2nd fast.
Which really was sparking joy for me.
Well, that's incredible.
Thank you to Chris for sharing and thank you for relating it over here.
Yeah, I just wanted to add that since, you know, fast as fuck.
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, the other thing that happened right after we recorded last time was I went on that train ride that we were like, what's it gonna be?
You gave me a very small amount of detail and it was basically...
I didn't really know much.
Well, you didn't, but then you texted me while you were there.
And you just said, it starts with a petting zoo. Did.
It did, it did And a picture.
So tell everybody that. What happened.
Well, I guess technically it doesn't have to start with the petting zoo, but it's like part of this whole thing.
It's this like Inglewood farm and trains thing.
It's definitely built for kids.
The train is like a mini train.
So, um, and it goes around like, oh, like half of a park.
So the ride itself was like 7 minutes tops.
Adults night.
And there's like, it's not like there were snacks or like drinks or something.
It was really funny.
But we went into the petting zoo first.
So we go in and there's just like these goats and chickens everywhere and these 2 cows that go straight up to me and my friend Heidi and just start chewing on our shorts.
Heidi has like a bagu bag and it takes like the strap and like the whole strap was in the cow's mouth.
We didn't even realize it.
We pull it out and the whole half of the strap is soaked in cow spit.
It was adorable, though.
It was like a hired giant vegetarian.
And so I do feel like for anybody to have gone through that experience would be totally like with it.
Yeah.
It would have been her or me probably like someone from our friend group who love animals so much would have just been like, oh, you're so cute for that.
Exactly.
Well, and the one bummer is that at the petting zoo, you're only allowed to pet the mammals.
All the birds are like there for vibes, but you can't touch them.
That's actually pretty common, I believe, because, uh, and I know this because one of McKenna's friends, one of my friends, McKenna lived with someone who was a teacher and they had chickens and they used to be able to bring the kids to the chickens and like the baby chickens and stuff.
But because birds spread disease. So easily and it can be so rampant once birds get disease.
I think that there have been some rollbacks on who's allowed to mess with the birds and touch the birds.
And even McKenna's sister actually works or used to work at a zoo.
And because they had chickens at home, they had to do like certain tests or certain things where, um, she had to be really careful about how she brought like she couldn't work with the birds because the chickens at home could potentially pass illness to the birds at the zoo.
So it's like pretty, apparently pretty like easy to pass.
I don't want to call it bird flu because obviously not everything that birds get is bird flu.
But it's easy to pass bird infections.
Okay.
So I think that's probably why.
Probably.
I also, it's definitely geared towards children.
You can tell that the animals who are being touched are like used to being touched and cool with it.
And I worry that even if what you're saying, which I think is a very valid reason that this is part of the rules, but I think the other thing is like, birds are probably just harder to manage taking sure that the little don't do like weird stuff with their feathers or that the birds don't like snap at them, basically.
I was going to say, too, their bones are hollow.
So like if a kid squeeze too hard.
Oh yeah.
No.
There's actually a picture of me, I'll have to have my mom find, because I got a petting zoo a lot as a birthday party as a child, which totally makes sense.
There's a picture of me holding a duck that is literally biting me in the picture and I'm just like smiling and it's like mouth is around my finger.
It's iconic.
I'll have to have my mom find it and we'll post it.
The coolest thing, honestly, were the birds?
They were like kind of having a moment.
They were clearly like, it was just chickens.
It was chickens, but there was one chicken.
I was like, what type of chicken is this?
It almost looked like I had a little toupee as its like crest on top.
It was like a funky looking.
And then they had guinea fowl, which I've never seen before.
Okay.
But those were the ones with the like beautiful spotted feathers.
And then like almost look like a turkey face, but instead of having the little like gobbler thing under their beak.
It was like these two weird little side areas.
Side gobblers on either.
I don't know.
Not the side gobblers.
Yeah, there were 2 side gobblers, but it made me want to learn about guinea fowls and probably do an episode on them, so it was cool.
That's exciting.
So that was the trains.
Honestly, not much else to say about it because like I said, it was a pretty short ride. Pretty little little petting zoo, but I had a good time.
The other thing that was fun to see was the chickens like settling down for the night and it was one of the hottest days that we've had recently, which almost every day has been hot, but the chickens like scratch in the dirt to get to the cool, fresh dirt to like cool themselves down.
Like dogs, my friends that we were with had had chickens for a brief moment in time, and they said that chickens like have a really hard time regulating their temperature in comparison to like, obviously we've talked about like the Sandhill crane and stuff.
Um, chickens are, it's much harder for them to manage being really hot or really.
Interesting.
We're definitely...
I wonder if it's like the domesticity of them.
Like, I think maybe they've adapted and we've kind of fucked up their ability to adapt to the environment.
Yeah.
I feel like chickens one day, we're going to have to do chicken month the way we'll have to do pigeon month because there's so many varieties too.
There's so many varieties.
I've gotten neck deep in a chicken catalog more than once in my life.
And I, do you feel like I, it's kind of like guinea pigs where you're like, do those exist in the wild?
Like, where are they?
Where did they come from?
And so I feel like that would be a fun thing to look into for a future episode.
Well, and then there's that whole like feral population on a bunch of the Hawaiian islands?
Because they were kept, um, on like farms and stuff.
And then a big hurricane happened and they got freed and they were also being used for like chicken fights and stuff.
But now if you go to like several Hawaiian islands, there's just wild chickens everywhere.
Interesting.
Okay, that's good to know.
Yeah, I feel like there's a lot to learn when it comes to chicken, so I'm excited to hear about that.
Then the other thing that happened, I was watching Cleo's dog rocket while you were in New York, and he howled, and it was incredible.
Okay.
Yes.
Hannah sent me a video of my dog.
Howling at, like, with a siren.
Yeah. Imitating a siren.
Never done in front of me.
As far as I know is never done in his life.
She sends me this video so nonchalantly and was like, little howl.
I didn't know he did that or something like that.
I play it.
I'm sitting with Stuart at, I don't know, some matcha cafe or something.
And I like gasped.
I literally went, what?
It really felt like, and then I showed Stuart and Stuart was like, oh my god, what was that?
I was like, that was Rocket.
And he was like, what?
Like, we both were just like, he's never done that before, which was so iconic and fun to see.
He has not done it since.
It hasn't been a week in all fairness, but the fact that you're like living near several firehouses.
Like, you get sirens around here.
It's the city.
Like it happens a lot.
He literally threw his head back and like, woo.
Yes.
It was crazy.
Luckily, I started the video and I did because that was the last one he did and he'd done like 2 right before I started the video.
But never before since.
It's so weird.
It literally felt like she caught my child walking for the 1st time.
Saying like babies for words.
Yeah.
I was like, what?
And I've tried to play the video for him.
I've tried to howl.
I've tried to like put howling on to see if he'll do it.
He has yet to do it. Trolling you at this point.
I think he's fucking with me, which would make sense because he's a teenager now.
So in dog years.
So I wouldn't be surprised, but it was iconic and adorable.
Yes.
And I'm sad that I missed it.
I know.
He'll do it again. One day.
It just may not be for like 2 years.
Yeah.
But he'll do it again.
Yeah.
Incredible.
Speaking of which, what's been going on for you?
Well, I'm done with school.
So that's the biggest for the semester.
For the semester.
Yeah, not done done.
I have one more semester as far as I know, and I should be done by December, but I finish out summer.
I'm glad I did it.
It was a lot of work.
I basically sat at my computer for three, 12 hour days and just did nothing but homework for those days.
Yes.
And that's fine.
It all worked out.
I don't even really want to talk about it because I feel like I have slight PTSD, but just no, I did it and I'm pretty sure I got all A's again.
Hell yeah. Love to see it.
The only other thing that 2 things that I wanted to mention.
One is that last episode, or possibly the Jeffrey Lindrum, one of the two, I say something about you imperial metrics users or whatever imperial system.
Yeah, the imperial system is what America uses.
Which makes so much more sense because it sounds so colonial and weird.
And the metric system is the one that everybody else uses.
So my bad.
Sorry.
Now I know.
That's why it felt weird when we were saying it.
We were like, are we sure?
I did know that, but I didn't pick up on it in the moment and I looked it up later as I was editing and was like, that doesn't seem right.
So my bad.
I do know that. Just got it wrong.
So oops, correction corner.
The other thing that I wanted to talk about was the fact that I got to rescue a bird.
You did. Got to rescue a bird.
It was wild.
First of all, I've been waiting my whole life.
Yeah.
So that was exciting.
You're superhero moment.
No, so I was walking my dog.
Yeah, genuinely.
And I always say one day a baby animal's gonna need me.
And so it did finally happen.
So I was walking my dog.
And I'm passing a, like, I don't know, like a beam, a column, if you will, over near my house, like at the corner of my apartment building.
And I noticed this tiny bird sitting on the concrete like ledge of the corner.
And I was like, oh, what a cute little bird.
That's adorable.
And I walk up to it like to get closer, not too close, but just to like take a picture.
And it tries to move, but it's like really obvious that it can't really move and that it's having a hard time.
So I was like, 0 no, like, I don't know that you should be here.
It was a violet green swallow, baby.
And so cute, so grumpy looking, Hannah will have to post the picture in our next reel because he is so glumpy.
He looks so cute.
And so I called a local wildlife rehabilitation center.
I was like, hey, I see this baby bird.
I'm not totally sure if the, like, the mom's around.
I dont see a nest. And he doesn't seem like he can get up on his own. Of his wings was sticking up kind of funky.
And so they were like, yes, send us a picture.
I sent the picture from a couple angles so they could see the wing.
And they said it seemed like he needed some help and if I could bring him over, that would be great.
So I did.
I basically dumped out a protein bar box, put a little towel in there, grabbed the bird. Put him in the car, strapped him in, and then I drove out to a wildlife rehabilitation center and dropped him off with a little donation to help pay for the care of the animals there, which was really cool.
The people running it were really sweet and they came back out and they were like, yeah, it seems like his wing is not that bad.
Like, we'll be able to fix it pretty easily and then we'll get him with a bunch of other swallows and he'll be released later.
So...
Yeah, as far as I know, um, you know, he's probably out there now flying with his new buddies with his buddies, his swallow friends.
And it was a lot of fun.
I was like, wow, this is so fun that I got to save a bird.
Yeah you did.
Um, I'm still waiting for the cat distribution system to pick me for like a kitten to walk out, like a dumpster kitty.
I think it could happen anytime.
I know, it could happen at any time.
Anytime I'm walking down like an alley where it seems like it's like a little bit deserted and there could be a mom cat that had some babies in a corner.
I always walk a little slower just in case.
Just in case.
Because you never know.
But that's really all that has been going on with me.
I, anything else.
I don't want to talk about because it's too traumatic in my brain.
So tell me what we are talking about today.
Today, we are doing another rivalry.
Not as heated.
It's more underwater.
Oh, the Atlantis.
Yeah, a little bit.
Well, actually, I was gonna, to do of the times, I was gonna do a whole like Odyssey rivalry.
Oh, I like it.
Okay, I have a pitch for each of these birds, these 2 fighters. On why they could be either of these main characters or, I don't know, characters is a weird word to use for mythology.
But anyway.
So, let's get into it.
So we're going to be talking about the ruddy duck.
Woo, 1st duck.
First duck, which is fucking exciting.
It just makes me want to do ducks for the rest of my life.
I love ducks so much.
Um, and a pied billed grebe.
I did not intentionally pick something with like one of the hardest names, but it's fucking hard.
I do feel like we could just call it like the the PBG.
Oh, PBG is cute.
The PBG.
Oh my god, I love that.
I think that'll be easier.
Oh my god.
Piedrogre PBG.
Yes.
Because the other problem that kept happening was I kept calling it like a pie build grebe or a pied bill grebe, and I kept taking one of the ids off.
Right.
So no, PBG from here on out.
That is referring to the pied builded grebon.
Perfect.
So, I'm going to do it similar to the way we did with heated rivalry where I'm going to kind of present our 2 fighters.
I love this because I feel like we're both settling in on our brand of how we like to talk about things.
Me, I'm like, let me tell you this crazy story.
And then I'm going to make it 2 parts just because I feel like it.
And you're like, I'm going to set this. It's usually like conservation center.
Yeah, exactly.
And you're like, I'm going to set these 2 birds up against each other.
And we're going to talk about them.
But it is really fun, though, because we get to learn how they interact.
Right.
One of the natural rivalry.
I'm not like chicken fighting these birds out here.
Don't worry.
Hannah put one of each in a cage and that's what this episode will be.
No, we would Underwater cage.
Shark Week.
Wow, shark week.
We're talking about that next time.
Yeah, I gotta save it.
Don't worry.
But I do think it's really fun and I love the way it comes full circle and feels like something more applicable to nature.
So I can't wait.
And I'm so excited we're finally doing a duck.
I know.
Me too.
In one corner, we have the ruddy duck.
Ruddy duck.
Okay, let's do it.
Let's do it.
Thank you, thank you.
Okay, so the ruddy duck.
First of all, let's clarify what Ruddy even is because a lot of times when I tell people about this duck, people are like, they're ready, duck.
Like, it's ready to go.
No.
Ruddy, as in R-U-D-D-Y, which I Google to make sure it's an adjective that just means having a healthy red or reddish color.
Okay, not unhealthy, healthy.
It's healthy.
Like after you go for a mild jog.
Yeah.
Apparently, a lot of times it's used to describe like complexion.
So, like, kind of like someone, after exercising, they have ruddy cheeks or, like, they're blushing. They have ruddy cheeks, or sometimes it can be used to describe like reddish things in nature, like a ruddy sunset is like a reddish sunset, etc.
It's a good descriptor.
So, fun things about the ruddy duck.
Their nicknames are fascinating, so they are the clown of the wetlands because they kind of look like they painted their face and they have like a bright blue bill.
I am also the clown with the wedding.
Yeah.
Well, because you're like, there's Wellins.
Oh my god.
I'm not playing around of like knowing whether or not there are wetlands anywhere.
They are also called butterball, which never got clarification on why.
And then called Stiff Tail, which they are one of 6 stiff tailed ducks in their specific genus or whatever.
Does that mean they can't do the...
It just means their, like, little tail will, like, stick up.
Not straight, but like very diagonally sharp has its own thing.
Okay.
Yeah.
And their scientific name is oxyera hamicinus.
The size.
Let's get into the measurements.
So it's about 14 to 17 inches long tip to tip.
Okay.
Duck size.
Yeah, pretty average duck size.
Weight is about 10.5 to 30 ounces, which feels like a large variation.
Yeah, 10.5 to 30 for the...
I'm like, are we measuring a baby?
I do feel like a pregnant?
Can get real, real chonky.
I don't know.
I don't know, but it felt like a large variation.
Wingspan, 22 to 24 inches.
Okay.
And the Merlin's estimate.
It's between a robin and a crow on the size scale.
It's smaller than a common golden eye, but bigger than a buffle head.
And those are 2 different birds that are ducks.
I was going to say, thank you.
I know you are always out here, like, how big is it in comparison to a common golden night?
Or a buff head.
Yeah, exactly.
I wish that someone called me Bufflehead.
There's actually Buffleheads fairly regularly at Wash Park.
Oh, yeah.
So, as I mentioned, they have kind of a sharp appearance where they have some cool stuff going on.
So their plumage and whole vibe is for males in breeding season, they have like a very sharp, blackish cap, which contrasts really sharply with a really bright white cheek patch.
And then they have a rich chestnut ready, reddish, ruddy body.
It's a lot of deep.
You should take a shot every time you say ruddy.
And then clarify after and say ready a 2nd time.
And then the coolest thing about them is they're bright sky blue bill.
It's so cute.
It really looks like the color of a nice blue sky.
They have that long stiff tail that they habitually like kind of cock upright.
So technically it can go lower, but they typically have it ready and to go.
Yeah, it literally, there's a couple pictures if you just quickly do a Google image search.
But if you look, there's one in particular and a couple actually, where the tail is almost at, they're in the water, but the tail is like at a right angle down.
Back is straight and then head is up and it looks like it's making almost a square in the negative space between the head and the tail.
That's how like cocked up this kind of stiff tail is.
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
No, I think it's kind of like their defense pose is they kind of go like stiffer and square. Like literally like square up, basically. Square up. In the corner of the ring.
Squaring up.
Um, when they're non-breeding, so they, like winter, um, they're going to be more dull gray brown, um, in parts and their bill is a little less blue.
It's a little more of that gray blue.
So kind of like with the peregrine, how parts of their like beak were like the gray blue.
I think it kind of gets that color.
Okay.
They still have the white cheek and the dark cap.
So they're still pretty distinguishable as far as like, if you look at them in a mallard, you're not going to be confused.
Yeah.
Um, a female or an immature male, a juvenile is going to be mostly brownish overall with a blurry dark stripe at like the top where the cap would be for a male.
Um, so just a little less distinguished.
Um, yeah.
Yeah, the females, it looks like, are brown, but they still have that brown cap or is that the males that have the brown cap?
Yeah, like, but it's similar to what we talked about with like bird banding where we, um, the, it's just like a less, what did she call it when we were bird band-ids?
Like a less defined. Less contrasted?
Yeah, like it's, it just isn't, isn't as dark of a black.
It's like, it's more of a brown black or a gray black.
And I'm noticing, I'm just looking at pictures.
I'm noticing there's a cheek stripe. Underneath the cap.
For the female.
Those are females.
So the male.
And a little bit on the juveniles too.
Yeah. Juveniles have that as well.
Okay, so the juveniles for males and females look really similar.
And as they get older, the males get really distinct.
They get that ruddy color, that really distinct cap and that cheek stripe disappears. Disappears and it gets bright white.
Whereas it's kind of like a more gray white and the female will just be like a darker brown, but keep the stripe, it looks like.
Okay, cool.
The stripe is cool.
I do think that comparatively speaking to some other, um, female comparisons to males that we've done, this wouldn't be a super difficult one to identify a female red duck.
No, no.
Because you can definitely tell, I don't know.
It feels like they have distinct markings from other female ducks that you might see.
Like the cap and the cheek stripe.
If you were close enough or you were able to see that in your binoculars, you would be able to tell that it was a female.
For their sound, they're actually really pretty quiet outside of courtship.
Their performance of courtship is just sound.
Okay.
So the males drum, their bill, against their inflated neck, hard enough to turn up a swirl of bubbles in the water.
They like create like a fucking little whirlpool.
Okay, so and then they cap it off with a belch like call.
So the whirlpool.
They're like blowing bubbles underwater, kind of, but it's just their mouths.
Yeah, just like their bills.
Basically, the way they're moving their bill and slapping it against the water in their neck creates this weird bubbler effect.
Okay, cool.
I like it He's like, look what I can do.
I mean, it does kind of sound really weird and kind of childish, honestly.
I was literally just gonna say.
It kind of feels like a kid who like is blowing bubbles in a straw and then burps really loud.
Like, it kind of sounds like a scene from elf or something.
But they also sometimes have a little bonus move and they run across the water while popping sounds are created from their feet, basically like slapping the water.
It's less of like even much sound and it's more of like very intense physical comedy, which adds to their whole clown of the wetlands nickname because they're kind of out here being a little bit of a clown with their clown.
Even when they're court shipping. Just being like silly guys.
So, as far as location and migration, 86% of the population breeds in the prairie pothole region, which never heard of before, um, but...
There's a couple, like the rest of the population's scattered throughout Eastern US, Alaska, Inner Mountain West, which is like the whole like Rocky Mountain Corridor, and the Caribbean.
But 86% of the population breeds in the prairie pothole region, which for those who don't know, which I would think is a lot of people, it's an expansive northern plains area filled with 1000000s of shallow, glacially formed wetlands known as potholes.
If you look at an image of it, it literally just looks like a bunch of little lakes and ponds, like, I don't know that I would see potholes, but you know, whatever.
But it covers.
Oh, yeah, it does.
Yeah, okay.
So it basically looks like, 1st of all, it kind of looks like a painting.
Yeah, if you just look it up, but it's a bunch of like rolling green hills, small hills, from what I can tell, with just little tiny, I guess potholes does feel kind of correct because they're not they're not big enough to be lakes.
They're not very large, but there's a lot of them kind of in the middle of all these different hills.
Right.
And they're kind of creating this like giant, super wetland fostering area.
It covers 300,000 square miles across parts of North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Montana, and then it crosses into the Canadian border of North America.
And so it's in the Canadian provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.
Wow.
The cool thing about it is it was formed 10,000 years ago when melting ice sheets from the last ice age left behind uneven ground and small depressions.
Wow.
So it created this like perfect, uh, ecosystem to create these like wetlands in the spring, it fill it's filled with rain and snow melt, and it creates these temporary to permanent freshwater marshes.
Wow.
Um, and it's also nicknamed North America's duck factory because, yes, it produces over 50% of the continent's migratory bird waterfowl.
Oh, so they would just come out of the ground.
Birds are ducks are born from potholes.
Yes, exactly. In the prairie pothole region.
You got it.
You were going to tell me that next and I just got ahead of you.
You're so smart.
It's a natural sponge that produces, when you squeeze this bond, a duck pops out.
Can you imagine how I would have one of those in my house?
Let's be clear, I would be living there if that's what it was happening.
Hannah and I would just be bouncing around the prairie pothole region just hoping for ducks.
I haven't gotten a deck today.
Let me squeeze this part of the marsh constantly.
No, but it is like, it's, the tough part is that more than half of the original wetlands have been drained or changed because of farming use, because also if you look at like the states, at least from the US perspective, Um, a lot of them are, like, there's there's a large farming industry.
It is protected by the US Fish and Wildlife Service.
So hopefully like they can continue to maintain conservation because it does sound like it is the breeding ground for a majority of ducks specifically.
In their non-breeding winter range.
So that's typically more of the southern US through Mexico into Central America.
Again, it's they really like prefer the freshwater wetlands, lakes, reservoirs, but they will do like coastal marshes and tidal estuaries.
Unlike most ducks, ruddy ducks don't pair up on their wintering grounds.
They only pair up once they've arrived at their breeding sites each spring.
So when it's breeding season, they're like ready to go, but they're solo yolos outside of breeding season.
Oh, interesting.
So they're not...
They're not.
Well, I mean, I think they're like in groups, but they're not paired.
Oh, I see.
They are up to mate, and that's it.
And that's it. Interesting. Okay.
Almost all ducks, it seems, have a corkspruce penis, which, um, it's intense.
To be fair, the females have corkscrew shaped vaginas.
Yes.
However, it's similar to what you hear about with like cat matings things where they like lock in.
Yeah, it kind of like locks you in once you start.
And apparently, ruddy ducks specifically can develop a penis up to 25 centimeters long.
More than half of its body length.
I really don't like. Don't like it.
No, when they do that.
And you said that you saw, they can like grow it and then like ungrow it. Like disappear and then come back for breeding season.
Yep, yep.
It grows for breeding season to mate, and then it and then it goes away.
It's not there all the time, which, thank God, because that would be a bit upsetting to look at. Especially because ducks are just around a lot.
Yes.
That's pretty obscene of them.
No, and unfortunately, for our human sensibilities, they are not necessarily nice to each other in mating season.
But part of the reason I even chose the Ruddy Duck is because they are a fighter.
Like they're truly described as, especially during breeding season, extremely aggressive.
Towards each other.
Yes, towards each other, towards competitive males, towards the females, if the females are not, I guess, like breeding when they want them to.
I don't know.
And then towards other species, which is, hence the episode, but even towards like annoyances on shore, they're like, will come at like a rabbit that gets close to them and stuff. Like they're just ready to go.
Okay. Ready and ready to go. Ready to go fighting.
I do think if I were to picture this duck so far.
I am picturing it in the ring with like little like mitz-up, like boxing gloves and like the...
It almost, it's almost like lucha libres, where they have like a mask on with their weird little face markings in their bell. And then they're just really like ready to go. And they're putting on a show squaring up.
So for nesting, they have a nest that sits, it's very similar to other waterfowl where they have ducks specifically.
They have their nest sits about 2 to 10 inches above the water in some sort of cattail brush situation that's like right on that shore area.
The female picks the site.
It starts as a platform.
So if we remember, like, the Hotson had the platform, um, and then it becomes bowl shaped.
So it has like a platform base and then a bowl inside that and then often they create a little woven canopy on top.
They've got this little this little hut for themselves.
What?
I know.
I need to look like that's kind of cool.
Their eggs, they can do 3 to 13 per clutch, which feels like a huge range.
It does for the birds we've talked about.
However, when you think about ducks, and you think about duck with babies.
Yeah.
I feel like there's a big, there's a big little group.
Yeah.
And that's just the ones that like survive.
A lot of times you have like a couple eggs that don't necessarily make it past incubation.
I mean, it's like how parents used to have babies in the Great Depression.
It was like, well, you might as well have 12 because they're not all going to make it.
They have a white, 2 yellowish white pebbly texture on the egg, so it's a little bit rougher.
It's proportionally the largest egg of any duck relative to that body size.
So there's a couple ducks that are like bigger and they might have a bigger egg.
But as far as their body size comparison, They have the largest egg. Weird.
Their incubation is 20 to 26 days.
Okay, that's not bad. 3 to 4 weeks, basically.
Their diet is aquatic invertebrates.
So that's like water fleas, midge larva.
Sure.
Okay.
Yeah, you know.
Midges I've actually heard of.
Okay. But I don't think about, often, so worms, snails, dragonflies, nymphs, a bunch of other stuff that they might strain out of pond bottom mud.
Okay.
Yeah.
Kind of like filter feed the-ish, minerals, dirt.
They eat plant material, like pond weed, duck weed, bulrush sometimes.
It shows up more in migration.
So that they can kind of fatten up for breeding season.
Climate driven diet shifts.
We've talked about that a lot.
Yes.
And that is not really, I didn't find any sources to indicate that that's the case for Ruddy Ducks outside of the idea that like wetlands are increasingly like needing to be protected and stuff.
So they need the wetlands, but it's not necessarily, they haven't had to adjust anything that they're eating because they don't have the proper resources.
Okay.
Yeah.
They are low concern as far as conservation status.
Um, population is estimated at about 13 million.
It's been stable from like the 1960s.
There was the last survey they were conducted as far as the population of 1300000 was in 2019.
So the rivalry hook and we're about to move to our 2nd fighter is that they get harassed, the ruddy ducks specifically get harassed by horned grebes, PBGs, and American coots, but it's just during breeding season.
Cona number 2 coming in in the featherweight champion.
We've got the pied billed grebe, the PBG. The underdog of the match.
Let's see how they think.
You might think.
Okay.
So nicknames.
It is often called the Hell Diver.
What?
And the water witch.
Like, how fucking cool is that?
Those are some cool ass nicknames.
I would I would start a band with either of those.
Nickname.
We're calling dibs.
I can't play an instrument.
PBG.
Water witch.
Ooh.
What was the other one again?
Hell diver.
Hell diver.
Like, what the fuck?
That's like Hellraiser.
Like what is going on?
I think that in Red Rising, the book series.
They're called Hell Divers.
The people who work in the mines. Like the main people.
You'll have to read the books to get into it.
But I believe they're called hell divers.
I'll have to look that up, but that's fucking cool.
It's always like on my list to read that eventually, but then I've heard mixed results on it.
I really like it, but it's very.. Revolutionary.
Maybe just a bit too on the nose for what we're all maybe maybe not enough escapism for our current society.
For the current society.
It's feeling a bit too on the nose.
It's giving like hungry.
I think I remember you saying that actually when you read it.
I haven't read the 3rd one yet because I'm kind of like, I need a break.
And you're busy with the 3 pines.
Yeah.
So these birds are water dwellers.
They are not, and I'll get into some reasons why it's pretty cute.
Their scientific name?
Pada li bumbus potus.
Palimbus. Looking at it right now.
It's different.
Yeah, it's hard to say.
Part of limbus partiseps?
Yeah.
But that's me trying my best to say it quickly and smoothly.
Yep.
Wow.
They are about 12 to 15 inches long.
So if we compare to the ruddy duck, they were 14 to 17 inches long.
Okay.
So they're definitely smaller.
They're in like this, the, I don't know.
They're the middleweight instead of heavyweight.
I don't know.
Then their weight is 9 to 20 ounces.
Oh, again, another very big range, but still not as large as the other range.
It's on 10 to 30.
And then their wingspan is only about 18 to 24 inches.
And again, as a reminder, wingspan of the ruddy duck is 22 to 24.
So again, it's just that slightly smaller size.
Yep.
So technically, they are still in the Robin Crow. In between Robin and Crow, but they are closer to Robin.
That makes sense.
And I think Ruddy Duck is closer to Crow.
Yep.
I would say That's a good way to put it.
Yeah.
They are roughly the size of a small American coot.
American coots are typically a little bit bigger.
And I will say as far as grebes are concerned.
The PBG is one of the smaller.
They have a very compact body, an oversized blocky head, which I don't know if I'd describe it as that.
They don't have like a bobblehead.
They just have a head that is kind of square.
Oversized and blocky does feel a little bit extreme.
I do think that their head size, and I think it's part of what makes them maybe look like a baby even as an adult, is that their head does look large compared to their body and neck size.
Yes.
And but I would say also it's something about their bill shape is a bit like short, stubbier, and a bit like wider.
So it gives it this like cartoony effect because it almost looks like a caricature.
It's not that extreme.
Exactly.
But it's it's definitely noticeable.
Yeah.
Well, and I Googled specifically, what's the difference between a duck and a greed because they're not, it's not like these are 2 different ducts.
These are 2 different types of water fowl, and there's a lot of water fowl.
We've talked about cranes.
Like there's huge differences.
So the big thing with grebes is that they both obviously float on water, but grebes have lobed toes, which so do coots, which is why I love them so much.
They have these weird wonky ass feet, but instead of having webbed feet, which all ducks have just webbed feet.
You can picture a duck foot and that's what it is.
These huge lobes that essentially act as propellers under the water rather than paddles.
If they look sense.
No, that totally makes sense.
I'm looking at a picture right now and I'm trying to think of a way to describe it.
It actually looks like, so a duck foot looks like a paddle.
I think you're spot on with that.
This, to me, looks like one of those sticky hands that you would throw at the wall.
And it gets all like wonky, like the finger part of the toes, if you will. If you'll allow it, is just like real chunky and flat and looks like it would stick to a wall if you threw it out a wall.
Don't do that.
But it almost looks more like a reptile foot or something.
Yeah, like a zoomed in, like a crested gecko foot.
It's got these like kind of like padded looking flat toes that are just like really big.
And it honestly adds to the cartoonyness of the bird.
It does.
Well, and you would rarely see their feet, to be honest, because again, they're almost exclusively on or in the water.
The other big distinguishing factor, since you might not see their feet, is that grebes, instead of having the classic duck bill where it's flattened on top.
If you know what I mean.
So like a lot of beaks we've talked about are semicircular and they like are like conical.
So they like form like a cone on the face.
This is duck beaks are flat on top.
However, grebes are flattened on the sides, and they are shorter than a duck beak, which, again, like Cleo was saying, it creates this cute factor for the for the PBG specifically.
The last thing that's different is duck legs are centered for easy walking on land.
Grebe legs are positioned near the rear, making them better swimmers, but a lot more clumsy and awkward on land.
I see that.
Yeah.
So kind of like similar to the, not the Hudson, because they're just clumsy all the time.
No, but it does make sense when you look at the pictures.
You can tell that they are, again, when you try to find photos.
It's very hard to find one of them, not in the water, but there are some where you can see through the water.
And if you get to those pictures, You can see their feet and their legs are very far back from where you would expect them to be.
Yes.
So let's get into the plumage.
They are brown, gray on top, a tan brown below, and then a dark brown, a brownish black cap, not as noticeable as the ruddy duck, but more like, it's kind of like their beak.
It's almost like a in a mohawk-ish shape if it were to start at its peak.
Not and don't picture feathers picking up.
Just like the where it starts is like right up against the top of the bill and then it's just slightly darker all the way back and down, but it's not so distinct.
Males and females don't have really any distinguishing features.
So they look the same.
Breeding adults have a little neck black accent as well, like a quarter of the way from their beak to their neck.
It's almost like a chin.
It's like a what you would imagine is their chin right behind the bottom of their bill. Like just a little sweep, almost as if you were going to contour your jawline from down below.
That's what I would picture.
You would just draw like a little crayon line of black.
In breeding season.
They develop a brighter white bill and a very distinguished black band.
It's pretty centered.
That is actually where their pied bill name comes from.
It's really cool.
It's that contrast between white and black creating this like shape, which is why the magpie is named magpie.
Right.
Pied is a pretty common thing.
Like even in a lot of like animal stuff in general, because they have like piebald snakes and like different types of like patterning and it's like almost always white with like a contrast section.
It creates like a shape and contrast.
Yeah, like a pattern, a shape, or like a just a, like a patch depending on the animal that is different, which is kind of interesting.
It is interesting.
Again, the sexes are identical once they reach maturity.
Um, when they're in non-breeding times.
So winter, they have a duller look, they don't have the black markings on their face and neck, and they lose the band on their beak, their beak becomes more yellowish, and no band.
They still look really cute, though, and they do kind of have a like a reddish tone to the brown during non-breeding season.
Yeah, it's like less gray, more red, I would say.
Yeah, it goes deep brown.
It goes more, I don't know, earthy toned.
Which probably matches like the lakes and stuff they're living on.
The juveniles are so fucking cute.
You have to look up the babies, they are so cute.
They have these adorable stripes and like, to me, this is more piebalds.
Like this is maybe...
I'm wondering, well, I'm wondering the beak part when they're older, is definitely like, I could see that, but the juveniles, I would describe them very easily, is like piebald, because they have almost like a animal print looking.
Maybe animal print is the wrong thing to say, but I mean that by like zebra or giraffe or whatever.
Like, they have this like striping.
Yeah, it almost looks like a cheetah or something.
Like there's this vaguely cheetah zebra, hybrid, made up animal print type.
I mean, I guess this is an animal print, but it to me, this is like the piebald.
It's like, oh, that's that makes a lot of sense.
And they're very, very cute.
And their bills are contrasty, like orange colors.
Yeah.
Yeah, like a reddish orange.
It's a very bright beak with a little black tip at the end.
They're incredibly distinguishable.
I'll say that. Super cute.
If you should absolutely look them up.
They are adorable.
One of the cutest bird babies we've seen.
And I don't know.
I just love the downy babies anyway.
What is that word that we learned?
Natal down.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Downey is correct though.
Yeah.
Um, and I already talked about their feet.
They are borderline clumsy to comedic on land, but they are amazing. At swimming.
And one thing about the babies too, is they have this really fun, so they have this orange beak, and I'm looking at pictures too.
They also have like an orange cap mohawk in the back.
So they've got this like piebald stripiness that's down their whole body.
And it's actually easier to see where their feet are positioned when you look up the baby pictures because there's a lot of pictures of them being held or on land and you can see their feet are like all the way in the back, like way to the back.
But they have this like orangey part to their bill.
And then on the back of their head, they also have a matching bright orange section that is kind of between all the stripes.
It's really cool and it's really cute.
They really look like little baby, like a zebra had a baby duck by accident and everyone got really confused.
And it seems like based on what I can tell, as they get older, the piebalding kind of disappears from the tail towards the face, and then that's when they get that last stripe just on their nose and that's the only real remnant of their baby piebald nature.
Exactly.
No, it's so cool.
These would be very easy to identify chicks.
A 100%.
No, 100%.
I feel like when you picture a baby duck, not this.
No, baby ducks, I think a lot of times get associated, like almost like chickified, so they are like yellow and fuzzy.
Yeah, yeah.
They're really, really, really cute.
They're fucking cute.
You should absolutely go look up a picture or go go on our Instagram. Certain that we'll find a good photo in there.
They'll be posting amazing photos of those babies.
I'd be obsessed if I saw one in real life.
They have an interesting sound.
You'll hear the birds before you see them with grebes a lot of times, especially at night and during breeding season.
They have a loud, very far reaching call for such a small bird.
I'll play the sound here.
In addition to that sound, they kind of do, like, random, like, grunts and coups and stuff like that.
Again, they are very vocal at night, specifically.
They're location.
Most of the U.S. And southern Canada.
They like quiet ponds, marshes, and lakes with heavy emergent vegetation, so think cattails, bulrushes, another brush like that.
Their winter range, so non-breeding is large water bodies, sometimes in small flocks.
Their southern populations are year-round residents.
They don't really migrate, whereas the northern populations do migrate every year.
So breeding season usually runs as long as the climate allows.
So early spring into mid-autumn, but it can be shorter, longer depending on the habitats and climate that happens that year.
The courtship of the PBG is a little less exciting than the dances that are very famously known for a lot of other grebes.
They are mostly focused on vocal duetting, which we've talked about before with the California.
Yeah, in that same episode.
I'm just associating them with rock runs, but that episode, the California Tohi. 100% correct.
Nice.
Yeah.
Good job.
Sleigh.
The only duet we've like specifically learned about adults, especially male, are highly territorial.
They will chase and attack other grebes and other waterbirds frequently launching their signature attack move.
Oh, it's called submarining.
Oh, is that when they can I guess what it is?
Yeah, yeah, you guess.
Okay, do they dive underwater and then they swim to a foe?
Yeah.
And then they come up underneath them and they torpedo out underneath, scare the shit out of them and then say, get off my land.
Yeah.
No, literally.
They, like, they basically exactly what Clio described is what you would see.
So that's how I got inspired to do this is because a photographer that I was looking at on Instagram had posted a video that he caught of a ruddy duck getting submarineed by a PBG.
So it dove under the water and then all of a sudden, torpedoed up to the surface, right behind the ruddy duck, and then got on its like little lobed feet and ran on the water chasing that ruddy duck out of town.
That's insane.
And especially because they're teeny.
Like they're, they're, they're not half the size, but they're, they're on the other end of the spectrum for the size differential.
Definitely.
They also just look so cute.
They don't, they don't aggressive.
It looks more like it would do something like that.
But the ruddy duck is too busy clowning around.
And blowing bubbles.
Apparently.
He can't hear the submarining because he's too busy.
He's too busy in his bubbles.
But busy, his bubbles are creating like a flag for the PBGs to be like, oh, I hear some disturbance in my water service.
Let me go get him.
So weird. Insane.
Grebes are cool.
PBGs build a floating nest. Built on a platform of vegetation that sits directly on the water.
They use bulrush stems, water lily stems, cattails, pond weed, and sometimes they just pile all of it onto a lily pad.
Like they use a literal lily pad as the base of their little floating nest.
It is built by both sexes.
So I feel like that was only the case with the Hotson.
Yeah.
Well, there was one other bird, but I can't remember what it is right now.
Maybe flamingos.
Maybe. And the peregrines.
Oh, yeah.
Peregrines were built by both.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Remember the scooting.
But it's not really nest building if you're just putting your body on the ground and pushing.
Is it?
Not to put them on that.
Is that nest building?
I don't know.
But this one, they build it together for 3 to 5 days.
The bowl itself is only about 4 to 5 inches across and about an inch deep.
So, not a cup because only an inch deep. It really is more of like a platform floating situation. Cute.
Yeah.
They produce 2 to 10 eggs per clutch.
Their eggs are bluish white to greenish white and like no other distinguishing markings or like textures or anything.
Their incubation is longer than the ruddy duck.
It's 23 to 27 days, so closer to a month versus like 3 weeks.
Okay.
The chicks leave the nest almost immediately, which, to be fair, is kind of the case for a lot of waterfowl, which we've talked about this a little bit with geese, they get in the water very fast, flying takes longer.
Yes.
But getting out of the nest, it's quick.
It sometimes is even like the day they're born.
So they spend their 1st week riding around on their parents back, which you will see, like loons, I would say loon babies look pretty similar, not quite as cute, in my opinion, as the PBGs, but they do have that similar stripy look, and they also do the behavior of sitting on their parents backs.
Yeah, if you look up a PBG, you can see a lot of pictures of the baby's riding on their back, which is it does add to the cuteness factor of it all.
And I have seen that with loons as well.
A little just like back carrying is very cute.
It's super cute.
So, their diet is opportunistic.
So it's mostly crustaceans.
They really like crayfish or crawdads or crawfish.
It's all the same fish, just so you know.
I looked it up yesterday because I was like, what's the difference between a crawdad and a crawfish and how do you become a dad?
Yeah.
You know?
It's just regional.
Probably.
It is.
It's literally just a dialect regional thing.
Yeah, someone who came from the part of the world where you would eat crawfish or half crawfish boil, crawdad boils, whatever it is.
My understanding was that it was also regional.
It's like Mississippi versus Louisiana versus...
Yeah.
So in addition to these crustaceans, they also eat small fish.
So think like kind of your typical freshwater fish.
So carp, different minnows are big one, catfish, sunfish, which is not the ocean sunfish, which is fucking huge, and has like a face on the one side of it.
It's a cool fish.
You should look it up.
Also, sorry, quick side note.
If you ha- Yeah, the freshwater one is more like a more like a trout, which is probably not also correct, but it'll give you a better idea. Is not a fishing podcast.
There's a video that just recently dropped of orcas, turning a sunfish into confetti.
It like was a New York Times headline.
Okay, but you want to see the orca...
Turn this into, turn the sunfish into dust.
Did you see it, though?
I did.
And I watched it multiple times.
Genuinely explode.
It literally turns into tiny.
I think the headline was Orca's pulverized.
Sunfish. Into tiny little pieces. Tiny pieces.
Look it up if you are interested in that.
It's somehow not graphic because the fish just It almost looks like a piñata.
A piñata.
But a piñata that was made out of like a balloon material. Like the outside just disappeared and all the candy came out. Paper underwater.
Like it doesn't look like flesh.
It is unbelievable to describe.
It's un you can't, you just have to see it to understand how spot on we're being about this.
Yeah, no.
They also have the same, the rest of their diet is basically identical to the ruddy duck diet.
So they eat snails, muscles, beetles, dragonflies, dragonfly nymphs, frogs tadpoles, depending on what's available.
So there's certain wetlands in Manitoba that they go to that they are documented as eating tiger salamanders, but that's because they're specifically available there.
So a really fun fact about grebes in general, as far as diet is concerned, is that they eat their own feathers. Sometimes filling up more than half of their stomach because it protects, it creates a sieve like plug to protect their gut from sharp prey parts that might like poke through their organs.
So like crustaceans and stuff, like as they're processing, they have these their own feathers to provide a buffer in their stomach so that it protects them.
That's very interesting.
Isn't it?
I'm trying to.
I'm trying to imagine if this was like the human equivalent your parents had to teach you to like eat your own hair or skin.
What?
Like, and you're just like, no, you have to do that because if you want to eat pretzels without them ripping your guts open.
You've got eat your own hair.
Just to make sure your stomach is patty.
Yeah, PSA, if you're eating pretzels without eating your own hair, you're fucked.
Your stomach's getting cut up.
That's the crunchiest thing I eat.
I think.
So that was what I was thinking of.
That's hilarious.
But they even feed feathers to the newly hatched chicks so that they like learn this behavior immediately.
I was going to say Nepo baby, but that's not the right.
It's like Stockholm syndrome.
They're like, this is normal.
This is normal. Normal.
This is what we do.
But I guess cats No, because they throw up their hair balls.
It's not the same.
No, yeah.
And they don't eat like sharp things.
No, you're right.
I don't know.
I'm trying to give it an equivalent because it just feels so outrageous, but well, because now I have questions of like, okay, outside of grebes, what do waterfowl do when they're like cleaning themselves and most likely losing feathers.
It just like sheds into the environment.
I mean, we know the answer to that because if you walk around during the season where they shed, there's little feathers everywhere.
So we know the answer.
They're not eating them.
And then, to be fair, those feathers are often used to create future nests.
That's true.
There's that It all goes in a circle.
It's the circle.
Nothing goes to waste.
Okay.
So, for conservation, they are low concern globally, um, their population is 3.1 million, which, fun fact, that's the exact opposite of the Ruddy Ducks, which was one. 13 million.
Oh, that is a fun fact.
They can control their own buoyancy by trapping water in their feathers.
So they are able to float with just the top of their head exposed by like basically.
I don't know, drenching themselves, like just making themselves heavier.
No, that makes sense because there's a lot of different water fowl that kind of do what they do where they're able to like put their body, like the main part of their body under the water with their head staying up.
And I always wonder how they're going about doing that because you have to, almost like when you go diving, you have to have weights at a certain point so you can drop.
It's like that.
It's like adding weights so they can drop down.
Exactly.
So I'm not exactly sure how they trap it in their feathers, but they're able to do that.
And it also adds to this submarine situation because they kind of look like a little periscope sticking up out of the water with just their little head.
The other thing that's cool is it basically creates this way for them to sink completely below water without creating even a ripple, which does add to the water witch of it all.
They kind of just like disappear.
Okay, yeah.
And this is something that sharks can do too, which really freaks me out.
But we're going to tape that.
It's like just like aquatic animals.
Like if you watch Shark Week, you can see they'll be right under the surface. Not a single ripple in the top and it is so upsetting to look at because it's scary.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not as scary.
If a duck came up underneath me, it would freak me out because I don't like water where I can't see my feet.
So the fact that I'm in the water in the 1st place is a lot, but yeah, yeah.
Finally, despite being very poor flyers, which is, again, why you will most often see them just in water, they need a long running flapping start to take off.
Um, which is kind of like what we talked about with the albatross, where like they're really, they're fine once they get in the air, but these poor guys are already awkward on land because they have their feet out of their butts.
And so it takes them a while to do a long running start and they're kind of having trouble.
I love that actually.
It reminds me of, again, the same with the albatross, the burden rescuers down under, like the just long, bumbling run until they get up in the air.
That is kind of how it feels like to be on a plane sometimes lately, though. Like getting up is like the hard part and going down is the hard part.
In the middle, you're like, whatever.
Okay.
We're up here.
But the down and the up is dicey.
Okay.
So those are our 2 fighters.
And now we get to decide who we think is what?
And so 1st open it up, was there any commentary on the Odyssey that you wanted to talk about on here?
Because we've both seen the movie and I'm about to go into why I think these 2 buddies, these 2 buddies, fighters, frenemies, if you will.
I'll make my review of the Odyssey incredibly quick.
I think it was overhyped.
Yeah.
At most, a 3.5, 3.75 star movie for me.
Whoa, whoa.
First 45 minutes, trash, too fast.
The last half of the movie, very good.
The dialogue needed to be dialed in.
And there were so many things that were missing that I was really looking forward to.
And I think it was a westernized take that became an epic love story that was not necessary and took a lot away from the actual interest of the original story.
I think it was visually stunning.
I have no interest in watching it again, at least in the next year.
That's the end of my review.
I love it.
Thank you.
I thought it was 4.5.5.
But it was more so like, well, how bad can it be when you have some of like the most accomplished actors in Hollywood and you have incredible shoot, like filming?
I'm not sure where they filmed a lot of the scenes like on the water, but it's just pretty stunning and like how did they do this?
And then the one scene that a lot of people, including myself site, is like kind of the most visually stunning, is the one that they shot in Iceland, I believe, um, where they're like visiting the dead people.
And, um, That part I was obsessed with.
Yeah, it's incredible.
And then the scene when um, Odysseus, Matt Damon, um, is the only one listening to the siren call and just like screaming and stuff.
Yes.
When they flash to the sirens and it's all blurry, didn't quite understand the choice there because we aren't going to be susceptible to them and sirens aren't real.
But I did think the scenes of him screaming and the way that it's a very loud film and the way that all sound is cut because we have waxed in our ears too kind of thing.
It like, it is very intense and interesting and like, I do like when films play with sound like that.
And I thought the scene where the cyclops is screaming was like truly upsetting.
Yes.
And I think you should be upset because this poor guy was just trying to make cheese.
And he seemed to be a very good caretaker of his flock of sheep and they seemed to like him a lot.
Also the same actor who plays the dad in the Jim Carrey's Grinch, the Whoville dad.
Is the Cyclops?
It's the Cyclops.
Cindy Lou who's dad?
What?
I saw that in a random article.
I didn't think it was a real person.
Oh yeah, they have usually real people like character actors play that.
Did you see the cool thing about how like the scene with the giant island is actually like a 7 foot man, a bunch of 7 foot people, and then instead of it being Matt Damon in that one scene.
It's a 4 foot 6 girl.
Yeah.
Yes, with giant biceps. Has fucking incredible arms.
Yes, if you haven't seen info on it.
You should look it up.
She's done multiple interviews.
Yes.
Matt Damon seems fully supportive of her and her badassness.
Tell me how our ducks.
Let's talk about our ducks.
Sorry.
Not our ducks.
Our ruddy duck and our grebe.
Our PBG and our ruddy duck, our water fowl, what are they?
So do you have any thoughts before I get into it?
I'm going to be positioning one of them as Poseidon.
Okay, who is pissed at Odysseus, because if you didn't know, it's not very clear in the film, this is one of my biggest gripes, is that Poseidon's son, it's like briefly mentioned, but Poseidon's son is the Cyclops, that Matt Damon has him and his men poke his eye out.
Yes.
Poseidon is obviously pissed that this poor son of his was innocent and attacked for no reason.
Agreed.
And he makes Odysseus's journey home much more hellish due to this.
So I'm positioning that one of these is Poseidon, and one of these is Odysseus.
Okay.
Do you have any thoughts on which is which?
One is Poseidon, and one is Odysseus.
I think the ruddy duck is going to be a Dyssseus and Poseidon is going to be the pied build grape because the submarining and the way that they attack and go underwater feels more Poseidon to me.
I agree.
So, I have that leaning as well.
Um, but there, I do have like a small case for switching it and having ruddy duck be besided and greed be Odysseus and you can decide for yourself.
But, Let's start with the ready duck as Poseidon, since both of us are less inclined to that.
So the ruddy duck can be the unprovoked aggressor in its own right.
They're very aggressive towards each other even towards other species.
They chase rabbits off the shore.
They are infamous for doing whatever the fuck they want.
So that can kind of sound like a vengeful God who's like gotten a little too much power and that can be how Poseidon behaves at times.
Um, the ruddy duck is also flashier.
They have more spectacle driven presence.
They create the like weird whirlpool bubble thing as part of their mating routine.
And Poseidon does that shit all the time.
He creates like whirlpools.
He worked, like that whirlpool scene in the Odyssey with Zilla, the like monster thing.
He's like, you know, I got confused about that part.
Zilla was the crazy monster thing that picked them all off the boat or was the thing that was making the whirlpool.
I think she lives by the whirlpool and maybe continues to maintain its weird presence, but she is the monster, not picked them all off.
Not the only thing creating that whirlpool.
It was hard for me to figure out the difference there if the whirlpool was being just created by a natural event.
Searcy, the book, I highly recommend, it's incredible, and they have a really interesting backstory for Zilla.
Yeah, I can't remember any.
I read that like 8 years ago and I could not tell you maybe one single part of what happens in that book, but it was really good and I also would recommend it double down.
No, for sure.
Um, then the grebe, by contrast to the flashy, ruddy duck, is small, secretive.
They like to hide in the marsh rather than be seen.
They survive through resourcefulness, um, which Odysseus is famous for being like incredibly resourceful.
The smartest man.
That's why Athena is like obsessed with him because he's super smart and he's good at strategy, et cetera, et cetera.
Um, But also Odysseus is goes into several disguises throughout the movie and throughout the story.
Um, and the grebe is just fiercely defending its home turf against an intruder, which kind of relates to Odysseus trying to get back to Ithaca and defend it from the suitors once he gets back and all that stuff.
So, that is one reading.
My preferred reading is also what Cleo was speculating that the PBG is Poseidon.
Poseidon big God.
There you go.
It just makes sense.
Yeah.
PPG.
PBG.
Poseidon Big God.
Um, the signature move is submarining.
So the attacking the ruddy duck from below the water.
That's about as literal as a Poseidon parallel as you could probably find in the natural world, an enemy that like uses the water itself as part of its tool to attack its enemies, like that feels very Poseidon.
The grebe is described as part bird, part submarine.
It's rarely seen above the water.
It's very secretive.
Um, it's very dominant in its, its territory of water.
It's kind of unmatched.
Its nicknames are hell diver and water witch.
Like all of these things sound like Poseidon, like a god who rules the ocean.
Yeah, I agree.
Well, it would be our, our, Well, no, because they're in normal lakes.
They're not in the sponge of the okay.
I think they can be in the prairie pothole region, but they're not as specific as the ruddy PR.
Yeah.
Not to be confused with the PBG.
Exactly.
There's a lot of pee pees going on.
The ruddy duck, meanwhile, is the one enduring repeated, almost disproportionate harassment.
So like they may have started the aggression by being kind of like out for fighting.
They're always squaring up.
They're being unnecessarily aggressive, but then they kind of like are like, whoa, is this the consequences of my own actions kind of thing, which Odysseus is the same way?
He was like, let me scream my name as the last thing that I say after I destroy you and your home for the poor Cyclops.
And then, so yeah.
Sorry, I'm just thinking about this.
I'm really upset about the Cyclops.
I do think they, yeah, that scene.
It was really upsetting, but also there was so much dialogue that was missed there.
I know. With the cyclops that I...
It like, yeah, it's so much clearer in the story that this is Poseidon's son and the bad things are going to happen now.
And then the choice is still made to do that. Anyway.
And there, from what I remember, there was like an interesting like tender and loneliness conversation about the cyclops and with the cyclops, but alas, I will allow you to complete your, but basically like Odysseus started it, but he also did not realize the epic backlash that he would receive from his enemy or that he was even creating an enemy.
Also, the Ruddy Ducks whole courtship act, where they do the tail up, the drumming, the bubbles, a belch like call, popping across the water.
It's showy and clever rather than some show of physical dominance, which does track with Odysseus's brand of trying to be cunning over like the strongest warrior.
He's not Achilles.
He's the strategy.
He's the guy behind it.
And even his, like, physical show of dominance, quote unquote, that happens in the movie and in the story is that he's the only one who can, like, what's it called?
String his bow.
Oh, yeah.
It is like a physical show, but it's very brief.
Yes.
Like, you just have to position it right and blah, blah, blah.
It's not some extreme physical feat.
He's not throwing like a fucking pillar across a mile or something.
I don't know.
A pillar across a mile, 100%.
It's a common physical show that people do in court.
I can only make it a half mile.
Just to just to show. Working on it.
Yeah.
I worked up to that half mile.
So those are my 2 pitches that, and I think we've both decided that we've leaned towards the PBG being Poseidon and the ruddy duck being Odysseus, but all that to say, neither reading is wrong.
It depends on who you want to pick as the underdog in this fight.
And I think we both, I don't know, but it's like not even in a clear underdog situation because yes, there's a god versus a man, but the man is also backed by another god and he's described as a godlike man all the time. And like faded.
Right.
And so can the gods change fate is kind of part of the question in there as well. Versus like making his life incredibly difficult versus like changing his fate.
And I believe the fates are also part of Greek and Roman mythology.
Yeah, think of the intro of Hercules, the Disney film.
Yeah.
Got it. That depiction of the fates.
It's probably so westernized and wrong, but it's fun.
I agree.
I think that that makes perfect sense.
The only thing I would throw in there is that like because the ruddy duck is so like clown like and ridiculous, I mean, I still think that Odysseus kind of falls into that, but more so in the like, guys who are trying to show like a macho or like overly perform for attention in like masculine ways could be considered like being clowny or like these just like insane displays that are like, this is not even attractive.
What are you doing?
Yes.
Like, like an unhinged gym bro kind of situation.
Yes, that's how I'm picturing it, which Odysseus kind of is.
He kind of is, but he's also kind of a short king that got a little like he's like, all right, fine.
I'll use my brain instead of my bra kind of thing.
Um, but he's not like useless.
He obviously survives a lot of things that other people die from.
I don't know.
But while you were talking, I was like, honestly, sometimes he kind of sounds like the ruddy duck almost sounds like Agamemnon, who's like, got this iconic outfit.
Yes.
And, um, which is one of the best things about the film to be honest.
Agreed.
Every time he comes on screening, helmet situation.
And he like just is so casual all the time.
He's just like walking, but it's like his pure presence is like so intense.
But Agamemnon is a dick.
Um, he's an asshole who absolutely was unnecessarily aggressive and killed his own daughter, so he would have better wins to sail into war.
That's ridiculous.
Yes.
And so some would say sometimes ruddy ducks are a little clownish in that way.
Sure.
And they do have this very elaborate outfit, similar to an incredible helmet with weird vertebrae on the back.
After looking at the horned grebe.
Is that what kind of horned green?
Yeah, they have more of like the vibe of Agamemnon.
Even like the colors are a little bit.
Like the red with like the spiky, like charcooli looking look.
Or the eared grebe.
Yes.
So I think we'll have to come back to that idea later on.
Well, we'll keep Greek mythology in the rotation for.. Yeah.
Mythology in general is heavily laden with bird imagery and a quick callout.
Athena is often associated with an owl because of her wiseness and her sharp eyes.
Sleigh.
Fun facts.
So that's my, that's my ruddy duck versus PBG situation.
I loved it.
Did you have any questions or thoughts?
As we wrap up?
No, I genuinely love that.
I love when we get to do a 2 for one and we get to pit them, not pit them against each other, but we get to kind of see how they interact with each other. Rivalries, yeah. In their habitats.
And I thought it was really fun how you related it back to the pop culture of the moment. Made it really like relevant and fun.
And I had a great time.
I feel like the babies of the PBGs.
Oh my gosh.
I'm obsessed with them.
They're so cute.
They're really iconic because normally baby birds are cute or crazy.
So ugly.
But they're not usually as pretty.
And then I accidentally saw American coot babies as I was looking through just like kind of clicking.
And those are also very cute.
And we'll have to talk about this whole little section.
Like family of related birds, they, with the lobed feet, they have some fucking cute babies.
They have some very weirdly wildly bright colored babies that grow out of that.
Sometimes, yeah, get like, not uglier as they age, but like, less defined, less flashy, less like, I don't know.
You just have to, a lot of times juveniles are like the boring version that grow into this like stunning breeding bird.
Yes.
It's kind of the opposite for these.
Yes.
And I will, but I will say, like, the coot and the piebild grebe are both, like, very distinct.
They're very distinct looking animals for different reasons.
And so they start distinct and then they become more distinct as they get older just in very different ways.
So it's been it's been interesting to kind of go through that.
Yeah.
And see where we end up.
But yeah, I have no notes.
I have no extra pop culture.
I think you nailed pop culture.
I do think we should be picturing mythological.
Like these these 2 creatures both have kind of mythological status to me because of like their weirdness. Love it.
I don't know.
Hannah is obsessed with ducks.
And waterfowl, but if we were gonna like put it in a category, ducks would be at the top of her list on every list that she makes and then waterfowl, any waterfowl comes after that.
Yes.
And I kind of exist more in like the birds of prey zone. Or like, um, I guess vultures are sort of considered birds of prey, just like, yeah, I feel like they're in the rap.
They like adjacent.
Yeah, they are, but they're not like, because they eat carry-on mostly, they kind of exist in like a slightly different category.
And then I move down from there, usually.
Well, because like, what's a shrike?
Like, they're not technically a raptor.
No, the Shrikes are in their own family.
It's just that they are known for being like colloquially as tiny raptors because of how they hunt.
Yeah.
But that's like my affinity for like predator species just kind of continuously coming out.
So it is it is interesting how we find both ends of the spectrum and then we kind of meet in the middle on, well, just loving birds.
Yeah, I mean, we love them all.
But I have an special affinity towards one and you like have a special affinity.
On like the completely opposite end.
Yeah, basically like land versus sky versus sea kind of.
Yeah, I guess for this episode, I would say, um, stop doom scrolling and start submarine. Your friends.
Stop doom scrolling and start clowning around.
Yeah, blow some bubbles in the water and visit the pothole prairie.
Yeah.
The prairie pothole, prairie pothole region, region of Canada.
North America.
North America.
Canada is part of North America.
The Prairie Pothole region.
And until next time, stay cool, bird boy.