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The Wayfarers

What is The Wayfarers ?

The Wayfarers are Experts & Investigators Navigating the Reality of What it is to be Human with Evidence & Experience: Fruits > Faith

Kristin is a Relationship Investigator, Former Teacher & Human Development Specialist
Matt is a Criminal Trial Attorney, Former Prosecutor & Advocate for Juveniles
H.C. “Hil” is a Criminal Investigator, Veteran, Retired FBI Agent & Cactus Expert

PIETY & NERVOUS SYSTEM WARNING - SOMETIMES WE USE RUDE WORDS! Topics include Drugs, Sex, Death & Violence and also Abuse, Neglect, Abandonment & Betrayal.
We use raw and vivid imagery and choose words that explore what is real.

Matt:

So I like that we were talking about, words. Words and the words we words with. Yes. Right? We were talking about this.

Matt:

Well, whatever this is that we're this exercise that we're doing, this this thing here. Because when you're in storytelling because every trial is a story, and you gotta come up with a theme. And last night, I was trying to come up with a theme for this exercise, this project. So let me let me work on something. Test it with a few guys.

Matt:

This is a work in progress of a possible opening statement. K? This is a case about premeditation. No. Case isn't right.

Matt:

This is a story about intent. A story might not be right. This is an investigation about consciousness.

Hilary:

This is a into into

Matt:

About and into. This is a life about what it is to be human. Teach your children well. Human life has value. Are we not all children?

Matt:

This is a play within a play within a play about love and duty. Not duty, d o o t y. Not your turd.

Hilary:

It's howdy duty time.

Matt:

Howdy duty time.

Kristin:

Oh, language.

Matt:

This concept of duty really starts to blend concepts of religion, politics, truth, justice. And so let this story play investigation, inquiry, presentation, trial. Be an inquiry into morality and power. I'm Matt Long.

Kristin:

I'm Kristen Long.

Hilary:

And I'm Hillary Jenkins.

Matt:

And we are your life cast. Life cast is a task force designed to combat abuse, stress, or sorry, abuse, harm, stress, and threats to life. And one of the things we do here, we're going to be doing here, is, well, talking about power, talking about religion, talking about politics. But ultimately, all those things are about mental health and spiritual wellness. And I don't pretend to understand those things very well, but I've brought two people, two investigators who I look to to understand a little bit more about the world and that's Hillary Jenkins and Kristen Long.

Matt:

One that comes from an investigative stamp of investigations, background and law enforcement from regular policing to military police to, being an FBI agent. And Kristen who's been an investigator into the child into a child's mind as an educator, as a, advocate for children who are dealing with, some of the worst of circumstances who's been, a guardian ad litem and an investigator into, homes of families who are in court, and who's been an investigator into some of the worst crimes imaginable and under to understand the real world of abuse, the real world of crime, the real world of violence so that we can have a better understanding about how things work rather than just advancing narratives that so often get advanced. Now today, we're not gonna be talking about governmental power, but we're gonna talk a little bit about theology and religion. Because today is the Sabbath. Today is our church.

Matt:

And this stage that we have here, this and this this this the stage for this play, it's a type of a classroom, and it's a type of a courtroom, and it's also a type of a church. Because anytime you're talking about governmental power and justice and punishment, you're really talking about religion and morality. Especially when you're talking about anything that relates to what could be called a capital crime. Now capital crimes relate to sex, death, murder, kill. And these types of crimes involve so often children, families, relationships, parent, child, wife, husband, intimate partner.

Matt:

Because this is where so much of our violence occurs. And so when talking about capital crimes and talking about things that go on in classrooms, crime scenes, courtrooms, and churches, we're really just talking about the human condition and what it is to be human. So let's call this our little group here for today, our church, the people of the church of the restoration today. Because there does need to be, I submit, a restoration, to be part of the restorative gospel. Now gospel is an interesting word.

Matt:

Instead of gospel, I think we could call it restorative yoga. Instead of calling it a yoga, more precisely might be restorative dharma. Well, dharma is a way, a process, a method. A way for what? A way for towards mental health and spiritual wellness, which I submit is just wisdom.

Matt:

Another word for Dharma, another word for yoga, right, which is about unity, is again duty. And the best way to understand one's way, process, methodology, and even one's morality is by considering to whom you owe a duty and who owes you a duty and how that's walked out. And so for us, for me, I have a duty certainly to my clients, but I primarily have a duty to my children and to my wife. And so today's episode, I'm gonna call one good mom and two dads a tryin'.

Hilary:

Okay. Alright.

Matt:

Thanks. Because I have found that

Hilary:

That means you're okay then, man.

Matt:

I'm doing okay.

Kristin:

You're doing Two great dads a tryin'. Well And a good mom's still a trying.

Matt:

In in in talking to to Hillary, we were having a conversation yesterday about parenting and, dad and and husband and and then we both we both came to the same places where we're still trying. And the thing that I find so interesting about Kristen and Hillary, and they're just two people who I think people need to listen to mo more. And I understand that's all that's funny because I haven't shut up yet this whole time in setting this up.

Hilary:

That's bad.

Matt:

That's who he is. That's who I am.

Kristin:

Setting the stage for my tap dance number.

Matt:

That's right. But these two people are what I call o m's, and that's the original Mormons. In the last couple episodes, we've talked we set the stage about the history of, Joseph Smith's religion and the church and the people that rose out of that people. And if you listened before, Hillary came from the people of the community of Christ. It came from, oh, Kansas City and Missouri and Iowa and Kristen.

Matt:

Well, and and Graceland University. Am I right about that, Hillary?

Hilary:

Oh, yeah.

Matt:

And Graceland University is

Hilary:

I'm not a graduate, but I attended. But

Matt:

you attended. Yeah. Yeah. And Kristen is a product of the Brighamite sect of the same organization, these same people. BYU.

Matt:

BYU.

Kristin:

And I did graduate.

Hilary:

Well, I graduated. I'm

Kristin:

married too, Hillary.

Hilary:

But not from grace.

Matt:

Not from grace. No. What was your university? American university.

Hilary:

Okay. In Washington, DC. Okay.

Kristin:

Yes. I just meant, you know, I graduated actually from the church one.

Matt:

Right.

Kristin:

I stuck it out.

Matt:

You did.

Kristin:

I learned a lot there about my field. Not to sing, but, it was a stick out. I had to stick it out.

Hilary:

Well and

Matt:

it just it's so interesting to me because, you know, we we come from we we're all we're all refugees of some sort, but the two of you are come from such different, what I'm gonna say, OGOM, original Mormon backgrounds. And you think that they're very different and yet you and we've come together as a shared people. Certainly. We shared virtues and we shared understandings about certain principles.

Hilary:

Oh, yeah. The parallels are amazing.

Matt:

What are some that you've seen?

Hilary:

Oh, goodness. Well, we were talking about some of the the youth programs and how the Mormon church, had those. And we had we had similar kinds of endeavors in in community of Christ and before that, the reorganized Mhmm. Latter day Saints.

Matt:

Yeah.

Hilary:

And it was just on a different scale, on a different level. But the the intent was the same.

Matt:

And this, again, this exercise, this project, this play, this story, this presentation, this learning opportunity, this thing is is, it's meant to transcend people and and religious beliefs and yet there's something acutely spiritual and religious about helping chill helping children and being interested in easing the suffering of other people. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin:

The the you started this by, you know, talk about words and language. And it's funny when you think about the similarities about growing up in in two religions from the same book, the same ideas, the same man. This is it's funny how language like, we have this we study the same book and we are so we were taught so different at what that even means. It it it that's a funny thing just of of words and the words we words with.

Hilary:

Mhmm.

Matt:

And we found each other, kind of at an interesting crossroads.

Hilary:

Tell you. Definitely.

Matt:

What what tell tell me your where where your memory was in in or your understanding, I guess, Hillary, from where you were from a religious and spiritual place versus what your understanding of where we were coming from and how we came together to become even knowing each other, let alone becoming friends.

Hilary:

Well, it was it was at church. It was on a Sunday, like today. And I was actually assigned to be a greeter to anyone that came through the door, including the the members, to welcome them, say hello, have some conversation. And you came in with a friend, and I recognized immediately that you weren't part of the congregation. You were visiting.

Hilary:

And my first impression was that that you were seeking something. And and it was almost like before the the term was invented, but that's what you were doing. And we just hit it off immediately because I felt like I had offer something to offer to you that you might be seeking. And I tried to present it in a way that made you feel at ease to where you revealed more as to what the purpose was for you being there on that Sunday.

Matt:

Yeah. And and candidly, where we where we were coming from and me and a group of people is we were religious refugees from the Brighamite church, from this this the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints is a people. And what we found in the community of Christ people who were, Joseph Smith, also a a church of the restoration and, you know, stems from, at least the work or the life of Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith junior is a church who was simply opening open to allowing these people who may not have community or have lost community and at least may even have their own community, but need a space, a building to meet and to share ideas and in what ultimately was sharing pain. But what I'm also interested in, what I didn't know then, is that you were on your own path and, process dealing with your own.

Hilary:

Oh, yeah. And that's what I found to be so fascinating was we were on this parallel journey without knowing immediately what was happening.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Hilary:

And we found so much so much common ground. I mean, I'd like to say it was love at first sight.

Matt:

Yeah. That's not that's not an an I don't think that's untrue.

Hilary:

And, you know, I mean, once I found out you were an attorney, I mean, I could relate to that from my background immediately. We had this same origin story with our beliefs, and then we had life happen, and now we were kind of in both. You were more outwardly wanting to to reconstruct and deconstruct, and I just knew about construction.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Hilary:

I just didn't know what necessarily the project was that we were working on. We kinda formed things together as as a partnership in this. Yeah. And it it it took off in a way that I I didn't even ever dream of.

Matt:

Well, and and but you also were coming from a place of, we were trying to find almost sanctuary with this with this church and this community of Christ, and you were We were, but you

Hilary:

were actually wanting to figure out how to share that.

Matt:

Right. But you And how

Hilary:

do we how do we attract people?

Matt:

And you were but you were, at that time, kind of having your own questions and struggling with your own relationship with this very church that we were finding, kinda sanctuary in.

Hilary:

I I had left another congregation over an issue that I felt was so compelling that I couldn't I couldn't worship there. I couldn't be part of. I had to I had to go somewhere else. Mhmm. And so that's the refugee part.

Hilary:

Yeah. But I wasn't necessarily treated as a refugee. I was like, oh, you're you you're great. You there's nothing wrong. You're okay.

Matt:

Yeah.

Hilary:

And and I wasn't okay.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Hilary:

And it probably revealed itself, later on in other ways that I realized that, yes, I was on a I was on a a path, before I even could define it.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Kristin:

And They were it's it was interesting to see the difference of where Hillary was okay to question in his, background religion

Hilary:

Mhmm.

Kristin:

And still accepted him, but they wanted him to come. We were these refugees that weren't we weren't really allowed to question in ours and we were told that that was wrong. So it was this unique blend in meeting you of you you are allowed to question.

Hilary:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And it's good to question.

Hilary:

And still

Kristin:

And there's still not really a lot of answers there, but we're not even allowed to

Matt:

Still questioning.

Hilary:

Still questioning.

Kristin:

And they still and and

Hilary:

And still accept it.

Kristin:

They still yes. They accept. Where ours really our background. And and at that time, we weren't the questioning wasn't allowed and that really was the refugee shunning. And so it was it was so interesting to know that these are really our cousins in belief, and they're the ones welcoming us with the questions.

Matt:

It was

Kristin:

just such it was very interesting

Hilary:

Yeah.

Kristin:

To all be doing that at the same time with you. But

Hilary:

It took other members of the family to Right? To engage.

Matt:

Yeah. Yeah. And we've But

Kristin:

there's not a lot of tools. We found that there wasn't There's Like you said, there's still questions.

Hilary:

There's not a lot of tools. Either of those relations, yet

Matt:

don't have

Kristin:

a lot of answers when you do.

Hilary:

So that's the play within the play. We were actually pioneering something Yeah. Together.

Matt:

And it was this, can a refugee people from a from a organized religion find a new way to community within the umbrella and confines of an organized religion.

Hilary:

Yeah. New wine and old wine stands.

Matt:

Yeah. And and it's it's it's an interesting contrast between these these same peoples. That is the the, the people of the church of the restoration today.

Kristin:

Today.

Matt:

Now, how one one organization, that is the Brighamite sect, they really, were were rigid in in kind of dogmas and and and, I think, rigid beliefs. And yet this other people, this other organization, they really expanded. It became a lot more politically progressive, even socially progressive maybe is a better way to say it. We talked last time about they were always, you know, they didn't have the same, restrictions on say, people of color, black people and being excluded from a priesthood. They, gave women authority, well before a lot of other, American institutions and churches did.

Matt:

And so there was that, contrast. And there was nothing more, no other example of that other than they established this congregation for what were effectively ex Mormons, ex Brighamites. And they said, here, here's a congregation, and you guys can use our space and do whatever you want from everything from being as religious as you want to a secular as you want, whether that'd be mindfulness and meditation and, just talking and meetups and book clubs

Hilary:

and Experimentation.

Matt:

That's right. Yeah. And and and all that we found well, we found Hillary. And then we, at least the three of us, kind of started talking together in a different way to a whole new way to Mormon. And that's at least at this point to do it with us in a in a very from an investigative standpoint, from an evidence based standpoint, from an academic standpoint.

Matt:

And what we found is the science of spirituality. And that in not just talking but in starting to change our behaviors that we found a little more mental health and some spiritual wellness and a little more wisdom.

Hilary:

Yeah. And we we experienced learning. And we we came from learning, but we learned something about learning

Matt:

Mhmm.

Hilary:

That we didn't we we thought we had learned. I mean, it was it was really, really transformational because that's the key is learning.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Hilary:

And we learned about each other first. Yeah. And we learned about why

Matt:

things happen. Mhmm. You know, the the this idea of learning keeps coming coming back because as recently we've been talking to well, we've talked to people from what I'm gonna say are devout people from both the community of Christ world who are that kind of old traditional Mhmm. Approach to religion, this traditional, yeah, just traditional devout belief.

Hilary:

Of course.

Matt:

And other people in our even family members who are traditional devout belief in, Brighamite, the Brighamite religion and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. And despite their differences, we've observed and we've they've I guess, the people have even come to us and talked about how mentally unhealthy they are and how spiritually unwell they are. They're struggling with life and at least their approach, their current approach to religion and spirituality isn't reducing suffering. They're really burdened by the realities of life. And so we wondered, is there maybe a more excellent way?

Matt:

Is there a better way to approach mental health and spiritual wellness? And I think the answer is yes. And for me, it's in finding ways to reduce suffering. And we can reduce suffering by avoiding well, or by really going at a couple things. And that is having more understanding about sex, death, drugs, and violence.

Matt:

The one universal thing, Right? There's a there's a there's a song in, we use a lot of musical theater references in in in the musical, Matilda. There's a there's a line that says the most common thing in life is life, but every single life is a miracle. The most common thing in life is life, but the second most common thing in life is trauma. Suffering the burden of consciousness.

Matt:

Because the thing about thinking is it's maddening. It sucks. It's scary. It's frustrating. It's burdensome to think about thinking.

Matt:

And that is a form of trauma. And these you know, we were talking about beliefs. Well, again, I I I I'm always concerned with beliefs because I say people die for beliefs and people kill for beliefs. But ideas can be shared. Ideas can be changed.

Matt:

Ideas can be developed. Ideas can be added too.

Hilary:

Grow them. You can grow them.

Matt:

Yeah. You know, we were talking about language today. We were talking about what words to use. Is is this a project? Is it something else?

Matt:

And we could have fought for that. Well, I believe that project's the right word and the words Dig in. That's right. And if you don't agree with me, then we can't know. We try to try to work on these things together.

Matt:

Mhmm. And go ahead.

Kristin:

They're actually you when you well, I I I studied, how to teach a child who doesn't come in without my language, how to teach in my language. A child writes and and the way to even teach just words to somebody who doesn't understand our language is to is to show this word, a vocabulary word, through all the different kinds of, ways you can show it. Let them hear if it's something, you know, like a circus. You let them hear it. You see you touch things that you have to let them experience that word.

Kristin:

And you just you said the word idea. And in when we talk about religion, it really is based on a lot of ideas. But until we can get these ideas with real concepts that we understand, like the language and then we understand it, we can that's really language then just becomes ideas if you're not. Even words, like we say like words that should mean something. That really should mean what that word was intended to mean.

Kristin:

But then how everyone chooses to use it, humans use it. It. And how it can you right? You can use a word and I can use a word and there is a true meaning for that word. But I now need to know how are you using that word?

Kristin:

What idea are you basing it off of? You know? And that's

Hilary:

Where did it come from?

Kristin:

Yes.

Matt:

Yeah. And we

Kristin:

need to get back to okay. It's always good to have ideas and there's words and and and words for big concepts. But we've got to be able to make sure we understand the concept because concepts are huge and ideas are huge. What word and what does that word mean so we can have a shared understanding

Matt:

Yeah.

Kristin:

To do something with it, to bring our thoughts and ideas to be.

Hilary:

Yeah. And when you did your opening statement, I mean, there were so many words, descriptive words that you use. I felt like you were just pouring knowledge, like, all over us. And it's like, wow. There is so much there to investigate and to unpack and to let soak in.

Hilary:

But who's gonna take the time to do that?

Matt:

Right.

Hilary:

We are. We are. Yes. And it is fascinating and it's energizing and it's unbelievable.

Kristin:

And, you know, I do. I care about you and I wanna make sure when you say the word Yeah. Red And red. Are we talking about the same word?

Hilary:

And when you say something's unbelievable, it makes you wanna believe

Matt:

it. Yeah. Well, I I love I love this this this this again, this is a line from from Matilda is, Matilda says, when I think in my head of the word red, is that the same thing in your head when you hear red? And if we're gonna use words, we might as well try to have a shared understanding concept of what that word is. Mhmm.

Matt:

Otherwise, we're just barking at each other like animals.

Kristin:

Mhmm.

Matt:

And and and it's okay if your concept of red is maybe just a little shade off. And I'm thinking maroon, and you're thinking cherry red. Right?

Kristin:

Mhmm.

Matt:

But and we can we can we can at least come to an understanding. Oh, when you said red, you meant I think of that as maroon or cardinal or Sedona or right? Love Sedona red. Go d max. But if the person there is either colorblind Mhmm.

Matt:

Has never received or conceived of red or for whatever reason is just simply confused and believes that green is red. Yeah. Man, we could be just, I agree with you brother, sister about red, and yet in our minds, we're talking about two different completely things and there can't be any connection in that. And so it does start all good lessons, all good dharmas, all good yogas, all good gospels, all good duties. Shared things do come with shared concepts and shared language.

Hilary:

Mhmm. They matter. They do.

Matt:

They do matter.

Kristin:

And because if we're gonna use language, then there's a responsibility with it. Yeah. Because just like you said, something as simple as a color red. If you and I were to work on a project, a year project, and you and I thought we were beginning on the color red, And in a year and a half, we just we you know, it's due. And I'm like, what?

Kristin:

What have you It could cause real harm, real destruction, real whatever. If you think about it as simple as that.

Matt:

And that the concept of language and having shared language brings me back to the concept of good or morality. Mhmm. What is good? What is moral? Mhmm.

Matt:

And, you know, the the philosophers would say that you can really evaluate morality. Based on care. What do you care about? What do you care for? And that tells you about where your morality is, Right?

Matt:

If you if you care about nutrition, you're gonna put energy towards that. If you care about having restful sleep, you're gonna do the things that put you in a position to have restful sleep. If you care about your body, you do things that put your nerve nerves and nervous system into, the state where they can be healthy.

Kristin:

Attention to.

Matt:

If you care about relationships, you put your time, attention, and awareness into it. And so, you know, Socrates talks about this in this as he's talking to this prosecutor who's actually a theologian because you see Socrates just like Jesus. They were doing theology through a political lens. And so this one prosecutor was talking about what the gods care about and saying that that's what justice is is what the gods care about. He says, well, that's interesting.

Matt:

You know what the gods care about? You're the one that knows the mind and will of God and what God cares about. And there's too many people out in the world that say, yes, I do. Yeah. And then pretend as if that's the way.

Matt:

Well, Socrates said something different. He said, what is it to care for horses? What is it to care for dogs? What is it to care for gardens? Well, that's somebody that has to have some real knowledge and understanding and training about the thing that they're caring for, and then they have to have the tools and the time and the ability to be able to apply and execute though that knowledge and that training and experience with the tools.

Matt:

And the same thing is true of caring for a child. And I submit this church, the church of the restoration, the sorry. The people of the church of the restoration today.

Hilary:

The church of what's

Matt:

happening now. The church of what's happening now. I submit or I proposed to the two of you and tell me what you think about this, is that we start with a theology of caring for children. And that that is the beginnings of a moral framework, which is to care for children. And what does it mean to care for children?

Matt:

Well, I submit that means that you have a duty to a child. And connected with that is the idea of caring is to ensure that a child has conscious sovereign sovereignty, the ability to think their thoughts, feel their feelings, and speak the thoughts and the feelings that they experience. And to have bodily autonomy to say, my body is mine, and I won't allow others to violate it by grabbing, by pushing, by smacking, by doing other types of violation, that those are moral principles. One of the things that we talked about or that I guess I'll confess to is being a very flawed dad. And one of the ways that I was an extremely flawed dad and recognized that I certainly terrorized my Children was in the way that I yelled violently and sometimes still do And that that is a form of violating my moral principles of conscious sovereignty and bodily autonomy.

Matt:

Because when a large human being, when a large parent screams, that does violence to the mind and to the body because it puts a child into this acute state of fight, flight, freeze, fawn, flop. And their nervous system is affected and their cells are affected and the worry that goes in their mind are affected. And so everything for this idea of abuse, harm, stress, and threats, we pick those things because there's a lot of ways for people to experience that trauma that impacts the mind and the cells. And that results in all types of dissatisfaction and worry and concern and pain and illness and all these things. That's what trauma is.

Matt:

It's an injury. And to care about a child is to care about their learning and their development. Now I'm bringing up this idea of morality and especially as it relates to children because we're parents. We're one good mom and two dads a tryin'. Like the, the twelve days of Christmas.

Matt:

Five golden rings. Right?

Kristin:

Yes. Oh.

Matt:

No. Can I cut you? No. I will Please cut me off.

Kristin:

Before we before we move on, I the word to care and when you brought up the like our duty to care for a child. If we bring a child into this world, our duty is to make sure that this child is taken care of. And that means to allow that thing to learn and to grow. And I and so I wanna take the child thing away and and go to either like a plant Mhmm. Or a puppy.

Kristin:

Or a cat a little baby animal that you get. Right? A plant if you don't listen and pay attention to what this either like a plant. If you grow a plant from a seed, it needs things that you if you think you know what's best for that seed, you're going to not let this plant it won't live. And I talked to many you know, I can't keep plants alive.

Kristin:

Yeah. The plant will tell you what it needs. Right? Is the soil dry? Does it do the leaves look it's talking to you.

Kristin:

Same with a dog. It it we know it lets you know when it needs to go to the bathroom. When it when it's hungry, it'll it talks to you. And we as humans forget that babies do the exact same thing from the day they are born. And they're communicating to us just as we're communicating to them.

Kristin:

And we don't know what's best. It's it's okay parents to know we don't know what's best for them. We know what We know how to keep them alive. We know what's best for them as far as keeping them safe and fed, right? Clothed in the winter with warm things in the summer.

Kristin:

Right? We know those things. But we don't know what's in their head. And that's the way we we just you have to pay attention. Listen.

Kristin:

There's there's cues that they tell us and that's those are the things that we can talk about. There's real function to how these little ones communicate to us their needs and we can think we know a thing still and and and and keep the things that we need to in control for them, right? They they need to go to school. They need to learn. They need nutrients.

Kristin:

They need clothes that are right to keep them safe. They need shoes. We know those things. But that doesn't mean we know everything about these these beings just like we don't know I mean, you can have one and then have another one. And you are starting over because you are.

Kristin:

Mhmm. That being is not the same one as the older one or the younger one. They just aren't. And we forget that because in our fear of not knowing a thing as a parent, we just assume that I'll do I can it's easier to just control it. So the fear of I don't know goes away.

Kristin:

Mhmm. And I that's this blend of just what is duty? What is care? What well, it takes a blend of of a a listen. I have thoughts of what I think is best.

Kristin:

I need to listen to this thing and see if it's even working.

Matt:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Are they showing improvement? Are they happy? Oh, are they not? Are they coming home from school every day more sad? Something these are things that you they're little clues.

Kristin:

That's all.

Matt:

Teach your children well. Human life has value. Are we all not children? The message and the theme between both Socrates and Jesus was righteously accusing the government of hypocrisy. And I submit that it is immoral for any government entity to attempt to appropriate the power of God to decide who should live or die.

Matt:

Hijack. The very concept of render to Caesar that which is Caesar and to God that which is God's is a clear condemnation of government imposed execution.

Kristin:

All it's telling us is that they don't they don't trust their God. Yeah. Because if you're saying leave right? Leave it

Matt:

up to God

Kristin:

or Caesar. You're saying, we don't trust God anymore. It's our it's our job. So who then stop talking about him.

Matt:

So the the way again, the and the two areas that God is so often found where people are fighting about what God cares about is related to sex and death. That's where so many fights are. These are issues over abortion, adoption, capital crimes. Right? Death penalty, marriage

Kristin:

Yes.

Matt:

Who your partners are.

Kristin:

Yes.

Matt:

And this comes down to what we what we do in in a a capital trial. And we're we're gonna do this shortly. We're gonna have an an an a lesson on jury selection, but we talk about everyone has a moral, an individualized moral justice system where they determine for themselves whether to marry, who to marry, whether to have kids, how many kids to have, what foods to eat, what how to spend your time. And one of them is also whether or not an individual deserves a certain punishment. That's an individualized moral justice systems, and it's internal.

Matt:

And so much the problem with individualized and internal justice systems, moral justice systems, is that so many of them can't be put into words. But so many times, the things that we think the things that we think is either deserves mercy or punishment. We don't have the ability to put them into words or to argue and favor and support them. We just know internally in our either in our heart, in our gut, or in our, the the brain stem. That's what I think.

Matt:

And so that's why too often we adopt somebody else's words Sure. To articulate what their morals is. And he says, oh, that's that's my moral justice system.

Hilary:

Would it help if you put your hand on the Bible on Yeah. And and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Matt:

And and that that will solve all problems. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Unless you're in a in a context where that doesn't have any effect.

Matt:

Right? And it's just performative. But this is a great example.

Hilary:

And That was not a mic drop. That was a

Matt:

That was something else. The

Kristin:

And what Bible? Your friend's Bible? The Holy Bible?

Hilary:

That's right. Jesus. Your body language is leaking. The because it's very holy

Matt:

while there's holes in your holes in the in the hole.

Kristin:

I give you my Bible and it has 18 pages ripped out whose Bible are

Matt:

Whose Bible is it?

Kristin:

What are we even talking about? Bible? What does Bible mean? Church.

Hilary:

We're in church.

Kristin:

Words. Words. Words.

Matt:

So in in what we're gonna be doing here with this project, this play, this story, this investigation, this trial, this lesson, this dharma, this yoga, is to explore the reality of sex, death, drugs, and violence, and to provide a little bit more education and understanding about all of these things. Mhmm. Because there are ways to avoid and prevent certain deaths. There's a way to avoid and prevent the impact of certain drugs, and there's a way to avoid and prevent the impact of violence. And there's a way to understand and find empowerment in this thing called sex.

Matt:

And if we just do those things practically, mechanically, there will be less suffering, less trauma, and therefore more connection. And I submit that that's where we can find this thing called morality. And we'll do it through by evaluating how governments, religions and families deal with and address sex, death, drugs and violence and we'll look into the morality of the power structures because the there's a number of ways for people to, I think, experience evil, and it's usually an accommodation. It's when something happens to make a vulnerable person in an accommodated state, meaning they are in a form of prison where they don't have a voice. Mhmm.

Matt:

Where they can't speak their thoughts. They don't feel safe enough, secure enough, or empowered enough to say the things that they think and to tell someone when something bad's happening to them. And then as a result, so often, those people become so vulnerable and so imprisoned in such an accommodated state that they then demand others to accommodate them and put others in the state of accommodation in forms of prison. And it comes down to this idea of overcoming silence. And morality, I submit, is when we give a voice and ensure that the vulnerable have a voice.

Matt:

You know, in today's age, there's some power in being a victim, which is very interesting. What I am concerned with is when the powerful who have lots of influence, power, money, the ability to speak broadly, when they claim they are victims, and when they claim the power of vulnerability. And this happens too often where the powerful want to also be of identify themselves as a vulnerable victim in order to gain more power. And this is so often what politicians do and the religious do and what parents do is they claim to be the victim of a situation when they're where they're the ones that have power. And so there's this blending of morality in looking at family systems and governmental systems and religious systems.

Matt:

And we can look through the lens of classrooms, crime scenes, courtrooms, and churches to see exactly how the power structures deal with the most vulnerable, especially as it results or as it relates to sex, death, drugs, and violence. And so we will look at the Mormon church and specifically the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and the manner in which they view their their duty to children, especially the children who experience extreme violence including sexual crime. And we'll look at the duty that a parent has as it relates to the children who experience tragedy and trauma. And I submit that's where we'll find something real.

Hilary:

No doubt about it. No doubt about it, Matt. And when you asked earlier, you know, what do you think of this? What do you think of this, you know, starting with the children? I mean, the first thing I thought of is suffer the little children because the little children are suffering, and that's where that's where it all starts.

Matt:

Got a phone?

Kristin:

My phone.

Matt:

Oh, look at that.

Hilary:

Someone's calling?

Kristin:

Yeah.

Matt:

So

Kristin:

It's it's my child that I have a duty to.

Matt:

Your duty I'll

Kristin:

call her in a minute.

Hilary:

This little one. What about this little one?

Kristin:

I got I know.

Matt:

Well I know.

Kristin:

I I wanna I wanna say for the closing

Matt:

I do. I was gonna end with my Oh. Go ahead.

Kristin:

Well, we okay. Well, then you can the the As as you're talking, it's just the search for spirituality. And and and in the search for spirituality, we as humans I think through time have put these idea, these language of concepts and ideas. Love, goodness, God, justice, morality. These are when you actually teach a child these words, these are nouns.

Kristin:

These are abstract nouns but you can't teach it the same as a noun, a person, place or thing that they can touch and talk about and it's real and tangible.

Matt:

Mhmm.

Kristin:

But you but they right? So you're teaching them but this is also a noun, a thing that you can't touch or but but that is either felt or understood. Right? But the funny thing about this spirituality search is the people, the ones the the churches, the leaders, the religions, the parents in these systems, if you keep giving ideas, right, you're you're teaching through these ideas but not real language that we as humans understand The your spiritualness continues to be imaginative. You have to link it with what is, with a human brain.

Kristin:

Our our our left brain logical part of us. If we continue and that's this funny thing about spirituality. When because to me, in my search, I've now been able to there is logic to it. There is we can explain it with words to where there's real function for real understanding of spirituality. But if you fill it with bigger words that don't make sense, you're always in search of it.

Matt:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Because it never will make sense to you. Yeah. It's very interesting to really think about just when you're think if we just think of it as words and language and learning of language. It's interesting.

Matt:

This is

Kristin:

And no wonder they keep us in a search. We're in constant search of what doesn't make sense.

Matt:

This is a story about premeditation. This is a presentation about intentionality and behavior. This is a trial about consciousness. This is an investigation into what it is to be human. Teach your children well.

Matt:

Human life has value. And are we all not children? This is a play within a play within a play about love and duty and morality and what it is you actually care about. I'm Matt Long.

Kristin:

I'm Kristen Long.

Hilary:

I'm Hillary Jenkins.

Matt:

And this is LifeCast. More soon.