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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Hi, buddy. Mama. Hi, sweet boy. How are you?
Speaker 3:Good. You look so much better.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. Thanks for Zooming me. I'm sorry. I miss you so much. I was just really worn out, and so papa thought it would be good for me to take this break, and it has been good.
Speaker 1:But I miss you with all my heart, and I'm so excited to come home. Look at that smile. Oh, sweet boy. So here's the thing, and if you don't want to, it's totally okay. But one of the things I did this week was catch up on all my projects, right, because I had no interruptions so I could sleep and I could do all the extra things so that when I come home, I just have my normal work and you guys, right?
Speaker 1:Because Papa's gonna have to go back to grandma and granddad's. So Yeah. One of the things, one of the things on my list, though, is that you had asked to do a podcast and have a conversation about your idea and about the boxes. Do you remember that? Yeah.
Speaker 1:I still remember it. Okay, good. Because I thought we tried for several weeks to do it, but there was so much happening, we just couldn't get it done. And so I thought maybe it would be easier to do it while I'm here even if we have to do it over Zoom because that way we won't get Yeah.
Speaker 3:I I think you found a good spot for me. Closet is nice and quiet.
Speaker 1:Isn't that funny? Do you know why I podcast in the closet?
Speaker 3:Big. Because it's not too big, so it doesn't make as much sound come out of your voice, and it doesn't bounce around and make so much noise. It just it doesn't even echo. It just you can just talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Papa says it has better sound. That's why I always go to the closet for interviews. Isn't that funny? Yeah.
Speaker 1:No. I don't think it's funny. Well, here's what's crazy. Today, you are my interview.
Speaker 3:I think that's grand.
Speaker 1:So here's what is wild. You have been helping me with the podcast for almost four years. I have? Isn't that wild? You were eight years old, almost nine years old when we started.
Speaker 1:Woah. Yes. And now you're 12.
Speaker 3:Wait. 12.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh. Nice. Did you know that? No. You're gonna be 13 this fall.
Speaker 1:What do you think of that?
Speaker 3:I think that's good. I'm gonna be a teenager. Are you excited? Yeah. I've actually been doing very good on my hygiene.
Speaker 3:I've run out of deodorant actually. Oh, good. Which is good because I'm catching up.
Speaker 1:That's great. It takes practice, doesn't it? Do you know sometimes that's actually really important even for the podcast, Alex, because did you know sometimes when people have a lot of big feelings, it can be hard for them to do things like get out of bed or take their shower or put on deodorant or brush their teeth? So you're being a really good example.
Speaker 3:I mean, did you hear about the water thing?
Speaker 1:Tell me about the water thing.
Speaker 3:You would be surprised. So I was going to bed Mhmm. And then my entire bed was wet. My blankets were wet. My pillows were wet.
Speaker 3:My my entire sheet was wet. What happened? And I then I figured out that, it was not before Barrett was in there watching a movie. I got to watch a movie with Papa for the first time, and I behaved myself.
Speaker 1:Good for you, mister grown up. Have you ever heard
Speaker 3:of who framed Roger Rabbit?
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. Did papa show you that? Did you have discussions about it as you went?
Speaker 3:Uh-huh. We had very discussions, and I mostly hid when the girl came because
Speaker 1:She's not very modest, was she? No. Oh my goodness. I can't believe he showed you that. What were some of the discussions you had?
Speaker 3:Well, we did he showed us a cartoon about the similar girl and about the wolf whistle.
Speaker 1:Oh. And
Speaker 3:they give that a lot. And so that's what we talked about before we started. And then Roger Rabbit, I I thought he was just playing with the trying to keep the baby, and there was a woman who owned Roger Rabbit, but I was wrong. They were just doing an acting because papa was like, you will not understand this. And I did not.
Speaker 1:When you all talked about that and why it means that and what that's like, Did you decide that it's a good idea or a bad idea to wolf whistle?
Speaker 3:Bad idea. How come? Yeah. It's just not polite. Like, you see a girl, and then you just which is not okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You're not supposed to do that. It's part of
Speaker 1:being respectful and of their who they are that's not just their bodies. Right? Like, we're spirits too, and we have all those parts inside and all the different aspects of who we are, not just our bodies.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So then I slept on the couch that night because of the water spill, but then in the morning, we had to talk about it. Uh-huh. And so we talked about it, and we did a vote. And then someone had said yes.
Speaker 3:But then before we did that, we didn't we didn't know who, but papa suspected it was that person because they said the truth the first time.
Speaker 1:But then Wait. Are you saying someone pranked you by pouring water all over your bed while you were watching the That's papa thinks. I we don't know for sure.
Speaker 3:Oh, no. So but while Barrett was watching a movie, I it was before that because when Barrett sat on the bed, it was wet. But then I got a little angry and frustrated for him not coming down and telling papa before we started the movie because then I went to bed, didn't not even knowing about that, and then I had to sleep on the couch because of that. We could have watched watched it while we were watching a movie. Then while papa was making his breakfast and we stopped, I could have just moved it over and then have it ready for tonight,
Speaker 1:that So two things I heard in that. Number one, I heard you share your feelings. So thank you for that, putting your feelings in words. That was so good. I heard you say you were angry and frustrated.
Speaker 1:And two, I think you and I, especially, I'm sure everybody, but I know especially you and I like to be feeling safe and cozy and comfortable when we go to bed. And so if that had happened to me, I would have been angry and frustrated too. It would not have been funny to me either. I'm really sorry that happened, sweetie.
Speaker 3:I was not pleased at all.
Speaker 1:So here's something that's happened in our family is that we don't have little kids anymore. We have one little kid. We used to have six little kids. Now we have one little kid. And one thing that has happened developmentally as we have three teenagers and two preteens now is that you all have learned about pranks from movies.
Speaker 1:So we have had a prank epidemic in our house. It's like a pandemic in our house, but of pranks. Right?
Speaker 3:It started where at Valentine's, where people just they poured candy in me and everyone's buckets, and we were not happy. No one is happy when your candy's all over your bucket and everything is out of the wrapper because then you gotta have to eat it before it goes bad. That's true. That's true. When you open a wrapper, can't just tie it back up.
Speaker 1:So especially with autism, that is excellent social skills for you to be learning, although it's not fair you learned it the hard way, but for you to be learning the difference between a prank that's funny and a prank that is mean.
Speaker 3:That's an example of a mean prank. A prank that is funny is like, I don't know. I can't think of it. Oh, maybe, when someone's playing with a when we're playing with swimsuits and then you sneak up behind someone with a hose and then you spray them. I think that's a funny prank.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh, because they would already be prepared to be wet. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't know if it would be funny to them because they didn't know it was coming, but I just thought, what was your idea? I I thought you just had something pop up real quick.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. One time I did an April fool's prank where I taped a toy figure, like one of the little figurines, like an army guy or something, but it wasn't an army guy. But you know what I mean? One of our little toy figures, I taped it to the van camera so it looked like when he was backing up, he was gonna run over somebody. So there's that.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because, like, watching more grown up movies and older movies and learning more about social skills or, like, how to treat people and how to not treat people, things like the wolf whistle or pranks, that's a big deal to be learning all this. Like, you're really growing up, buddy.
Speaker 3:And I've learned it all well, the movie was funny, and I learned it through papa, but the bed wet. I learned it the hard way. Like Yes. Uncomfortable night uncomfortable night because I'm used to sleeping on two mattresses. And then when that has to change, like, really quickly before I even know what's common
Speaker 1:Yeah. And sometimes we learn things by talking about them. Oh, that's top down. Remember? That's top down.
Speaker 1:If you learn it, like, when you watch movies and talk about different things with papa, that's top down. But when you got in your bed and it was wet, that was bottom up. No. It's not funny to me that you got pranked. It's funny to me that it was a literal bottom up.
Speaker 3:And I had to just get my two backup blankets, my winter blankets. Where'd you hot. I slept on the couch, but well, also, I had to sleep with my two winter blankets because that's all I had because all the other summer blankets that were in my bed were just wet.
Speaker 1:So is it all fixed today?
Speaker 3:Two over the treadmill and that, like, running thing that you use that doesn't turn on. The elliptical? Yeah. And then, I I put the your grandma name blanket that got wet. I just put that on the floor and let it
Speaker 1:dry. So will you be able to sleep Yeah. In your bed
Speaker 3:It's it's dry now. I just hope they don't do the prank before I go
Speaker 1:to bed.
Speaker 3:It's because I know how to sleep.
Speaker 1:That's the problem with pranks that are not funny, is it breaks trust, right? It's a violation. And so it will take several nights to feel safe in your bed again if people were doing that, which I think is how, like, Mary was feeling with people walking in her room.
Speaker 3:Like, she just wasn't feeling safe in her room.
Speaker 1:It wasn't that anyone was doing anything bad. It was just like, guys, stop walking in my room.
Speaker 3:I've done better now I'm not, Kirk and Mary, not coming in until staying out and not.
Speaker 1:It's a big thing with adolescence.
Speaker 3:It's important. Even even Kirk, who's a boy and also my gender, it's still respectful because it's his room and
Speaker 1:his privacy. I like that. Like that. Good job, buddy.
Speaker 3:I'm still working on it with Barrett.
Speaker 1:Did he get his new bed set up yet?
Speaker 3:We haven't got there yet. Papa's been burned before he can even get there. Paces and all that. Yeah. Math is really, really killing him.
Speaker 3:Math is hard.
Speaker 1:Papa is not a fan of math. It's true.
Speaker 3:I did adding fractions, and I got three whole pages correct on the first try. Good job, buddy. Which means I have learned. Very good.
Speaker 1:It's sinking in this time. Very well. That's great. Look back on all the
Speaker 3:pages that I got wrong, and then I look. And I realize it's not how many problems I got wrong on last time. And I look at the problems I did get wrong last time before I took my assessment test. And so I put myself at the right pace and now I'm caught up again.
Speaker 1:Good for you. Good for you. Sometimes that's all we need. It's just like a do over. That's okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's how we learn. Right? And now it's much easier because you've already studied it.
Speaker 3:It's not like you're bad. It's over. It's not.
Speaker 1:You know when I
Speaker 3:see this, you know, that shining light right there up right by the roof? Mhmm. I I like to think of that as, like, when I look up and I don't see the light bulb, I think it's, like, just glory shining down. Aw. Telling me, will you be okay?
Speaker 1:You need some glory shining down. You know that you're not bad. Right? Like, you're good because of who you are, not because of if you do well in math or not. So on the podcast, we talk about trauma, right?
Speaker 1:And we have talked about what trauma means and how different people in our family have been through hard things in different ways. You and I have been through some hard things in some of the same ways and in some different ways. And we've talked about how that helps, like how we use all the parts of ourselves to sort of help deal with that trauma and need to care for all the parts of ourselves to heal from the trauma. And we've talked about that a lot in the past, but a couple weeks ago, you came up to me and told me this whole thing about how your autism brain works and that we needed to talk about it on the podcast. Can you tell me about So tell me what happened for you.
Speaker 1:How'd you figure this out and what did you figure it out?
Speaker 3:It was just one day, I was because I've realized my choices and the my choices in the past and how, they've affected. You know how I've mostly gone to bed during, little kid time and big kid time and preteen time instead of staying up with Kirk and Mary? I figured that out because why? Because I'm acting like a preteen and a big kid and a little kid. Mostly, I'm acting like a little kid, which which doesn't give me the right to stay up late because that's my choices I'm making, and that's I want
Speaker 1:to interrupt because I want to make sure I understand so far. I'm sorry for interrupting. So you're telling me you were able to connect that what you were experiencing was because of what you had chosen and you realized you want to experience something different and so you decided to change your choices so that you could have different experiences. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Nice buddy! And so I just came to you because first, you're my mom, and, I need you. I also need you, papa. Don't forget it.
Speaker 1:We won't forget you, buddy. We love you so much.
Speaker 3:And so I also came to you because you're a feelings therapist, and so I thought you understand.
Speaker 1:True story.
Speaker 3:And soup, and so you did.
Speaker 1:So tell me about these boxes that you figured out were in your head.
Speaker 3:It just clicked one day. I was just playing, and then I was like, okay. Like, I was playing a game where we gotta run, and I was like, okay, run. And then he fell into and then I connect and then that connected into my brain. And then it just clicked like that.
Speaker 3:And I was like and then I put something in it, closed it up, and took it back out. I was like, wait. And then I thought of putting myself in there, but then I was like, wait. No. That's oh, come on.
Speaker 3:I was so close to thinking. I know I need it. I can't I couldn't put something in it with my hands. I couldn't put myself in it. And then I thought and thought and thought, and then I realized I gotta put my feelings in it.
Speaker 3:And then I did that. Well well, my feelings that when I'm done with, I just put them on the shelf and take them out when I'm ready. And then all the things and then, like, when I miss a teen movie, when I have to go to bed at preteen time and little kid time. I just take that sag box out and just cry. I'll, like, just scream in my pillow and then take it off and and put it back on the shelf and go to sleep.
Speaker 1:So what I was understanding that you were sharing was that one of the struggles, both with trauma and with autism, which you were getting both, that one of the struggles is that when hard stuff happens or big feelings happen or lots of thoughts are going on, like part of what's hard is that it gets overwhelming because all those tabs are open or all those screens are up or all that is still replaying in your head and it's hard to get it to go away. And then it feels what they call dysregulated. And so then people are telling you to regulate and you're like, am regulating because all these screens are up, but trying to function at the same time and it's too much. And what you were able to do was click into place how to assign those thoughts and feelings to different boxes in your head so that you could pause things, like pause on a movie, then come back to it when you need, but also not have to live with all of it all the time.
Speaker 3:And I just realized I'd finally put the final puzzle into my autism. Well, not well, I put another piece into my puzzle in the autism state. I still got a long way to go with my puzzle, but I figured out another piece and
Speaker 1:put it into it. I think that's so great. So the big fancy therapy word for that is called intentional dissociation, where you're putting something on pause. I know. It's a big fancy word for what you're doing.
Speaker 1:You put something on pause on purpose so that you can deal with what you need to deal with now, but it's intentional. You know you're doing it and it's healthy because you come back to it, which is different than just stuffing your feelings or not using your words or not coming back to it so that it's still there and needs to be dealt with. Knowing how to get to it and how to come back to it and feel it or deal with it or express it or talk to me about it or talk to someone about it, that's so healthy, buddy.
Speaker 3:I've been doing much better on bedtime. I've actually done really better. So for you,
Speaker 1:just for the podcast, so that they're catching up what you're talking one of the biggest struggles for you with both trauma and autism was bedtime. While we- Yes. So you're not a bad kid because bedtime is hard, but what happens in the context of a family is that it's hard for us as parents and you as a child to have the bedtime workout in a safe way that's calm and sweet and tender when there disrupted or having problems or whatever consequences because you're still up or because you're still doing stuff, and it was causing you complications. So that kind of problem is instead of being intentional, like intentional dissociation, is like what they call maladaptive, meaning it wasn't actually working for you because then you had a bad bedtime and you weren't sleeping, which was like rough. Like it's not a fun experience, it's not good for you, it's not healthy, it's not enjoyable.
Speaker 1:And you were stressing out because all you said, your whole day was playing out in your head. Like, you were repeating the whole day.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know how when we watch movies, you know how I really like, like, fun, like, mystery or, like, exciting or power movies like Spider Man or Harry Potter. Mhmm. Just fun stuff.
Speaker 1:I really, you know, when
Speaker 3:I when we watched the first Spider Man late at night, and then we had to pause and then all that drama, and then we went back to it. And then when we went to bed, I replayed everything, including the drama during the movie, even though it wasn't part of the movie. And then I thought and I was like, wait. What? Because I was like, that wait.
Speaker 3:Wait. That's not right. That can't be right because that's not in the movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's a piece of trauma and autism both sometimes or anxiety even when those hard things are just playing over and over and over or like with fascination with the movies, that's so common with autism buddy, that's not even a weird thing. It's like classic autism. You love Star Wars and you love Jurassic Park and you love Harry Potter and you love these kinds of things. And that's totally okay.
Speaker 1:It's totally okay that you're a fan of Spider Man. That's okay. But you also have to sleep at night And to have a good next day, so what your little breakthrough was that you wanted to share about on the podcast was you learned how to pause all of that so that you can actually go to sleep and then you've been having better days since then because you were getting enough sleep. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:During church, I I did turn into a cartoon a little bit. It was not because of the sleep because I got really good sleep. I I went into a cartoon state a little bit. Oh. Because papa put a question.
Speaker 3:He said, I also pray on the toilet. And I was like, wait. What? And everything just went crazy. All these boxes open.
Speaker 3:All these feelings went nuts. And they were all just going all over the place trying to find a way into a box and stuff themselves down deep as they could go. But they could not find it because all the boxes then closed up and left in a moving van. And so they were all just trying to chase it, but it kept going too fast. And then they finally caught up with it.
Speaker 3:And that's when I finally calmed down.
Speaker 1:So that's interesting because both with autism and with trauma, when something unexpected happens, it can feel overwhelming or even unsafe. It doesn't mean it actually is unsafe. Like you were just on the couch with Papa watching church online, right? Because of the pandemic? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you were actually safe. You were right next to Papa. You were on the couch in your comfy spot. So you were safe, but your brain, in that whole polyvagal stuff that we've been talking about, your brain goes, Oh, something unexpected happened. And it tells another part of your brain called the amygdala like a warning bell.
Speaker 1:Like the tornado siren or something, right? Danger, danger, danger. The signal goes off. And with trauma and autism, it can be really hard to turn that signal back off and say, listen buddy, I'm actually safe, everything's okay, and papa actually sent me a video of you when this happened because do you
Speaker 3:know what you were doing? I was doing this.
Speaker 1:Yes. You were doing that, and I'm gonna describe it. I'm gonna describe it since on the podcast they can only listen. Okay? So you were turning your you were sitting on the couch, but you were turning your head in such big circles that you were literally bending at the waist and bending all the way down and over and back up and over and all the way down and turning in these big circles.
Speaker 1:But do you know what my therapist says?
Speaker 3:What?
Speaker 1:She says that is regulation. That is your brain trying to regulate. Wait, what? Yes. Do you remember we talked about top down and bottom up?
Speaker 1:Do you remember that? Yes. And how, like, right now, you and I talking and connecting, that's through our cortex that's top down because we're having a conversation, right, and I get to see you and it feels good and we're talking about it and discussing it, that's top down. But when you are using your body to tell your brain that you're actually still safe, so like stimming or bouncing or tapping or your hands or the flapping or running on your tiptoes or that circle you were doing during church, which papa sent me a video of, that is bottom up. You were still trying to regulate.
Speaker 1:And so one thing papa and I have had to learn as parents is to be more tolerant of behaviors that are not really behaviors they're really regulating. Then one thing you have had to practice and learn is how to give yourself access to some of those things in ways that don't get you in trouble, like at school or during church or something. Because when we're homeschooling or we're just at home or you're by yourself in your room, like then you have so much more freedom, right? Like you can stim or regulate however your body wants to do it, or if you're playing outside, those are great ways. And it's part of why our family culture believes so much time outside is so important.
Speaker 1:But sometimes when you're in a social context like church or a classroom at school, they really buckle down on how much freedom you have to do some of those things.
Speaker 3:They really do buckle down on it. Like, I get a I get, like, recess. That's that's that's I get, like, thirty minutes because then we get our thirty minutes after. Right. Even when we get, like Like, I need a lot because that was because that's not enough.
Speaker 3:You'll be
Speaker 1:in junior high. You won't even be in middle school anymore. Like, you never even got middle school. You're skipping from elementary school all the way to junior high. And junior high, there's no recess at all.
Speaker 3:Can I just go back to middle school? Try middle school? Because I basically skipped middle school.
Speaker 1:It just depends on where we live, sweetie. And and, because you've got an IEP, they won't hold you back. So it goes back to what are your needs and how can we meet them within the context of a framework that's required of us. So if classroom time is required of us, then how can we make sure you have the tools you need to be able to regulate in that context? Sometimes it's not fair.
Speaker 1:Like if I were the boss of schools, there are a lot of things I would change, right? But I'm not the boss of schools, I'm just your mom. And so we have to follow the rules, but we also have choices like is public school going to work? Do we need to keep doing homeschool? And all those kinds of questions we have and can answer as we get through the pandemic.
Speaker 1:But right now we're in the pandemic And so that means you are at home where we can be more flexible with those things. But then bedtime, for example, was a time where we can be some flexible, like if it takes you a long time to settle down, we can send you to bed earlier so that you have that time to settle down so you're asleep at a good time. Or you can find other ways to regulate so you're still asleep on time, which is what your breakthrough was all about. You're like, I don't have to go to bed at baby time anymore because I figured out how to do it.
Speaker 3:Because, like, I keep wondering. I close the door, and then I see Mary, but it come out. And then when she and then when I finish brushing my teeth, and I'm like, good night, Mary. And she's like, good night. And then I go to my room, she closes her door, and then I think, oh, she's just going to bed.
Speaker 3:And then she comes back out, and she just downstairs. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1:and it's hard too. I mean, that's another thing for autism and trauma both where all that stimulation, like, are other people doing? What's happening? What what where are people supposed to be? Like, all those things can make us feel unsafe when we've had a lot of trauma.
Speaker 3:And then I get in trouble when I try to figure out what's going on, but it's not my business, and I'm supposed to be in bed and asleep. So then I get in trouble for wanting to know what's going on, and then that hits down and leads on to next morning and makes consequences grow up into next morning, and then that affects my morning. Yeah. If I keep it going, that affects my evening. And Right.
Speaker 3:I've done that past a lot, and so mostly, it's almost affecting an entire month.
Speaker 1:I know that one thing that's hard that Pop and I are just like, we're not trying to be bad parents, but where we're weak is that there's literally nothing we can do about that there's just one of us and six of you. So if I'm with you or papa's with you or if we're with you together, it's still two, it's still like there's three of you, right? Even if we split And you in so sometimes it's a taking turns issue and you have to wait and that's not good for attachment. It's not good for your brain. It's not good for healing.
Speaker 1:Even though, again, you're actually safe, we're really going to get to you, you're going to have a turn, like even waiting to do this podcast, right? But ideally, you would get all the attention that you need right away and that you would feel supported in that way. And sometimes with a big family, you have to wait your turn and that's hard. And that's okay that it's hard. You're not bad because you have to wait.
Speaker 1:Like, it's okay to feel disappointed or frustrated that sometimes you have to wait.
Speaker 3:Do you know, like I think I understand that really. That's really good. Do you know, like, when I'm mostly, like, adventures and action stuff? Like, when you talked about school and home. You know?
Speaker 3:What's been going on in my head I've never got a chance to talk to you about the school and homeschool thing. What's been going on my head, I can picture a school building of junior high and then the home my home. I can picture my home clearly. I don't know what my school looks like because I've never been there. I picture that my family's a school, and then, they have cannons, and they're just firing.
Speaker 3:And
Speaker 1:Like, having to decide? Yeah. But I gotta go to both.
Speaker 3:I have like, I have I'm only doing homeschool right now. I have to go to school because I have to see if I like the school or not, if I like the lunch, if if I like the classes. And if I don't and I don't think and I need recess, then I come back to homeschool. So either way, none of them are gonna win because I didn't do both.
Speaker 1:Right. Well So I think you're talking about two things. One is that there's some anxiety about what will your new school be like because when you went into the pandemic you were in elementary school plus we moved and so going to a new school and going all the way up to junior high will be something you've never been through before and that is really hard both for autism and for trauma. So know that it's okay that it's hard because that's your brain trying to keep you safe. But also know that we will be there and help keep you safe too.
Speaker 1:That's our job. We're with you. We hear that it's hard. We love you and we will support you in every way that we can. The other piece is that I think part of that is some trauma from the pandemic actually, new trauma, because think about it, before the pandemic happened, like in fact, the week before I went to California, do you remember I went to the junior high for that parent meeting about transitioning your kids to junior high?
Speaker 1:Yes. And they told us that there would be more meetings like that where the kids also came.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. I've done that.
Speaker 1:And they told us that over the summer you would get to go visit the school and tour the school and you would get to do all those things to learn your way around, especially the sped kids would have extra time. And when the pandemic happened, all that got shut down and then we moved. And so I think that's actually a trauma, like that's grief. You lost something that they promised to you and a way that they planned on helping you feel safe and that was taken away from you. Now, no one did that on purpose or to be mean, but it's still okay to have big feelings about it.
Speaker 3:Like I never got to see their lockers. Everyone walked inside the school. Didn't get to see the principals, the teachers. Well, I saw one teacher because they came to our school, but I never got to see a lot of that stuff. And then I never got to do the first day of only sixth graders came to school, seventh graders, and eighth graders stayed home and to learn my way around school, enjoy like, I got I could even pick clubs.
Speaker 3:I I math and English were required. Science and social studies were not required. You could pick that. Art was not required. Like, it was much different in middle school than in growing
Speaker 1:rich. But if that here's a question, and I'm just trying to think outside the box a little bit because I think your grief and the trauma of the pandemic is legit, especially for kids who are going from elementary to junior high. What if we took what we knew was going to be helpful, like what we had planned before we moved in before the pandemic happened and getting to visit the school and all of that that was supposed to happen and then didn't happen? If we took those good answers that we already found and just used them again? What if we talked to the school and asked if we could come look around?
Speaker 1:Like this spring, not waiting until August when it's your first day and you have to get on a bus and go to a strange place. What if like this month we go look or in May we go look?
Speaker 3:I actually think that's a grand idea.
Speaker 1:Don't you think? Because if most of the adults are vaccinated and we all wore our masks and we just went, the three of us.
Speaker 3:What do you think? I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:Would that feel better at least getting to see? And then we could only worry about that piece. And then after that piece happened, we could talk again about how we feel and what it looks like and what that would be like in August if we get to go back to school in August. You're smiling. What does that mean?
Speaker 3:I think it's a good idea. You think? My brain, school and home is starting to stop.
Speaker 1:I think it's an easy way to address some really valid questions, buddy. I think you did a good job using your words, and I think that I can totally help you in that. And we can come up with a plan that feels safe for you.
Speaker 3:It has just stopped.
Speaker 1:It feels like it stopped? Yeah. Anything else in your body? The
Speaker 3:fog is going away. My mind is becoming clearer.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad. That feel better then? That feels like a good idea? Good job using your words. I love that.
Speaker 1:Any other things that you needed to talk about or wanted to share on the podcast?
Speaker 3:So about the school thing, we're gonna see if I'm going back to middle school or not. Is that what we're seeing about? We seeing if I'm going back to middle school or if I'm going on to skipping middle school, going down the roller coaster up and heading into junior high?
Speaker 1:You mean when we go visit?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And instead of making a stop on the train to
Speaker 1:We would go visit the school you would be attending so that you could see it and ask them questions.
Speaker 3:I think by then we'd be vaccinated, the triplets, That's what I think by then.
Speaker 1:I hope you guys are vaccinated soon. You're at 12 and they say, like right now 16 year olds can get it where we live and they say 12 to 16 is next. So I'm hoping that they call for you very soon.
Speaker 3:Kirk could get it first partly because of danger.
Speaker 1:Oh, because he's high risk with the hydrocephaly and the shunt. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I have a question.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Who would next after me and Mary? Would me go first? I mean, would I go first, or would Mary go first?
Speaker 1:We would take you all at the same time, probably. If we were able to get three appointments, we would take you all at the same time.
Speaker 3:But if you could get one your first appointment, you could get one appointment, it would be Kirk. I'm just understanding this. I'm not saying Kirk's the best.
Speaker 1:Because of risk level, are you worried about that? The Sophie's choice of it? Yeah. Mhmm. If we have to prioritize because of medical issues, it would be Kirk.
Speaker 1:Kirk because because his brain cannot have fevers and COVID causes high fevers sometimes, So he would be high risk and have to go first because of that. And then with the little ones, Kyrie would be because it's an airway disease and she already has airway problems.
Speaker 3:And Kirk's, like, shut part that's metal could, like, burn up and explode.
Speaker 1:Because his brain already has some problems, and so we can't add to that. Right?
Speaker 3:Oh, like, a metal thing on half of the side of his brain that keeps him pumping and alive.
Speaker 1:Has a tube from his brain down through his heart for a shunt so that water there's too much pressure on his brain. So it regulates the pressure on his brain, and it keeps the liquid from putting too much pressure on his brain.
Speaker 3:That's why when we do a big activity, you usually bring his stroller because it's gonna he's gonna play a lot, and so a lot of that fluid's gonna go, like, woo hoo. And then you bring a stroller, like, not because he's a baby and he can't walk. Of course, he can walk. He's played with us before, and he's really good at it. But just, like, to let him chill and just
Speaker 1:So that's a different thing. And now that he's a big kid, we go ahead and call it a wheelchair instead of a stroller. But Oh, my bad. That's okay. That's okay.
Speaker 1:That's because he has cerebral palsy and spina bifida. So he can walk sometimes and he can play hard in some ways, but he can't walk for a long time and he can't play hard for a long time. So if we go somewhere that is a lot of walking or a lot of exertion, his body doesn't have the same kind of stamina to be able to also like get back to the car or to to keep doing. So really it's kind of like Kyrie when we talk about quality of life. We can either push him really hard in those ways or we can help him be comfortable in those ways so he gets to enjoy more activities instead of push him really hard for fewer things.
Speaker 1:We want him to be able to enjoy the things he's able to do. Those are big questions. Those are good questions. Do you have any others? Okay.
Speaker 3:It was nice chatting with you.
Speaker 1:It was nice chatting with you. I love you so much.
Speaker 3:I love you.
Speaker 1:Anything else you wanna add before you hang up?
Speaker 3:I I really think all we talked about is a it's all really good idea. One more thing to add about the boxes. Mhmm. There's a there's a lot of things I put in the boxes besides ceilings. Of course, if you had a box, what would you put in it?
Speaker 1:I have so many boxes, buddy. And I put all the same kinds of things. Some boxes have feelings, some boxes have memories, some boxes have experiences, all kinds of different things just like what you're describing. I think everybody does it in a way. Maybe some people do it a little differently or a little more or a little less, and I think what matters is that you know how to get to those boxes and that you know how to take care of what's in those boxes.
Speaker 3:Did you know that almost almost all of your boxes are trauma. Almost all of my boxes are trauma.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I agree with that. Like, you have a new box of this, of us talking when I missed you so much and I got to see you. So now I have that box. I have the box of the day you came to live at our house. I have the box of cooking with you.
Speaker 1:I have the box of going on adventures with I have the box of going on hikes with you. Those are all good boxes. Yeah. Yeah. I love you.
Speaker 3:Hard. Some that are easy. Some that need help. It's okay to need help.
Speaker 1:It means you're human. It doesn't mean you're wrong or bad or failing. It means you're human, And it gives other humans a chance to be human with you. Love you so much with all my heart, all my boxes. Mine
Speaker 3:too. Thanks for the talk therapist mama.
Speaker 1:I love you, baby. Have a good day.
Speaker 3:I will. Bye. Bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
Speaker 2:We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community. I'm not there for dating and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too.
Speaker 2:Being human together. So, yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.