Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Join host Ed Ross as he sits down with Cynthia Barnes, founder of the National Association of Women's Sales Professionals. They delve into the transformative power of affirmations, women's challenges in sales, and the pioneering work Cynthia is undertaking to empower female leaders. Discover the journey from establishing a supportive organization for women sales professionals to the groundbreaking concept of 're-engineering confidence.' Learn how Cynthia is leveraging international insights to inspire women to embrace their accomplishments and own their strengths. This episode offers a compelling look at societal change, leadership, and the future of women in sales.
00:00 Introduction to Affirmations
01:37 Meet Cynthia Barnes
02:28 Empowering Women in Sales
07:00 Re-engineering Confidence
11:24 The Power of Affirmations
20:40 Global Movement for Women
23:25 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Creators & Guests
What is Conversations That Matter with Ed Ross?
Becoming a great leader isn't easy. It's not because people don't want to lead well; it's just that there need to be clearer examples of what good leadership really looks like beyond fancy titles and corner offices.
You see, the word 'leadership' has kind of lost its meaning for a lot of folks. It's often associated with those who were promoted after being really good at their old jobs, but not necessarily those who are good at leading people—the kind of leaders organizations really need.
And to make matters worse, most companies don't do enough to help new leaders develop their skills. That's why bad leadership is such a big problem, costing companies billions of dollars every year.
But here's where our show comes in: we're creating a space where leaders can share their real-life experiences—the good, the bad, and the ugly—and celebrate their progress.
That's what makes Conversations That Matter special!
Our show is all about digging into the heart of leadership and personal growth. We talk to all kinds of leaders—people who've been there, done that, and have the scars to prove it. Our goal is to inspire and empower you to be the kind of leader people actually want to follow.
So, whether you're in the boardroom or the break room, whether you're a CEO or just starting out, our guests have stories and advice that can help you become a better leader.
As your host, I believe in the power of storytelling to connect, inspire, and drive change. And I'm here to help build a community of leaders who are passionate about making a positive impact in their workplaces and beyond.
If you've ever wondered how exceptional leaders earned their distinction, I invite you to subscribe to our channel and learn from the game-changing leaders revolutionizing their fields and making every conversation count.
[00:00:00]
Podcast Studio 02: [00:00:15] [00:00:30] [00:00:45] [00:01:00] [00:01:15] Affirmations are really special. It's [00:01:30] a term that we hear people use a lot. Mm-Hmm. But a lot of people don't do the work to really understand affirmations. Mm-Hmm. So, I'm excited today to have one of my very, very best friends on the show and to have [00:01:45] you share with our audience the exciting work that you're leading and doing right now, and for our audience to get to know you better.
I have the pleasure of knowing you. Knowing lots about you, but I'm excited for our [00:02:00] audience to get to know more about you, hear about the work that you're doing, and hear about where you're going because I know this is a great time for you. It is. So with that, I'm excited to welcome my dear friend Cynthia Barnes, to the show.
Thank you, [00:02:15] Cynthia. Welcome. Thank you. You know, we've been going back and forth prepping for the show. Yep. Talking about where we're gonna go. Mm-Hmm. But I thought that we'd. Go backwards just a little bit. Okay. And let's talk about the work [00:02:30] that you did with your organization to empower women sales professionals.
I know that with everything going on right now in society, this is an exciting time. Yeah. But you were a [00:02:45] trailblazer. You were doing this before people got on the bandwagon. Take us back and help us understand the work that you were doing. With the National Association of Women's Sales Professionals and why [00:03:00] you started there back in 2016, I had this crazy idea.
I had a hypothesis. Okay. And the hypothesis was, in a world where [00:03:15] traditional sales approaches were created by men, for men, at a time when men made up the entire sales force. Nothing wrong with them. After all, I got to the top 1% using them. And so I did a lot of my female colleagues. I wanted to know how [00:03:30] much faster could women reach the top 1% if we had sales approaches that identified and worked with the unique challenges we faced and helped us overcome them.
So that was my hypothesis. And I [00:03:45] worked with the Lean Startup company and I worked on that hypothesis, and I got proof of concept. And I've started working with that. Started a meetup group in Detroit, [00:04:00] went to Grand Rapids, went to Chicago. Pretty soon it spread like wildfire. And then we got our first sponsor and I said, well, I should change it from a meetup group to an actual organization.
Okay. And before we knew it, [00:04:15] it was a real thing. Now you talk about getting to that 1% mm-Hmm. Like one, the, the top 1% in sales is an elite group. Yes. We [00:04:30] know that there are statistics today that show that women outperform men in a variety of categories. One of them being sales. Yes. Now I know that some people are not gonna take well to that.[00:04:45]
That's okay. But the data is the data. The data doesn't lie. And a good friend of mine would always say, if you give me data, I can help it tell whatever story you want it to tell. So the data shows Mm-Hmm. That women do, in fact outperform men in sales. Yes. [00:05:00] Besides your own journey, what, what inspired you to keep going?
Right? It's the journey that you just took us on. Mm-Hmm. The excitement of building something and seeing it grow. What kept you going after that? [00:05:15] Bills. Yeah. Yeah. Those are real. Yeah. I have expensive taste. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. All jokes aside though, I wanted to create a world [00:05:30] where my now 12-year-old niece Yes.
Wouldn't have to be judged based upon the gender she's assigned at birth. The color of her skin. Yes. I wanted her to be able to say, I [00:05:45] want that. I'm willing to work hard and make sacrifices to get it. And no one would tell her no based upon things she couldn't control. That was the goal. I love it. And as a girl, dad, I.[00:06:00]
I was just having this conversation. In fact, one of the promo pieces for this, I was talking about affirmations, and for my children, I've been fortunate to use the same affirmative phrase to them for the past 20 some odd years. Work hard, [00:06:15] be smart, do good things. Yes, I say it on their way out the door, on their way out of the car, wherever they're going.
That is my phrase that I use to them, just to remind them that. Listen, it's not gonna be [00:06:30] easy. You have all the things that you need to get there, including the intelligence and the willpower, but you gotta make the right choices. You can have those first two elements and not make the right choices, and it makes the road longer and harder.
[00:06:45] Yes. And so I want to now switch and talk a little bit more about how the work that you did with the National Association of Women's Sales Professionals. Has actually led you into the work that you're spearheading today. [00:07:00] That being said, you talk a lot about the concept of re-engineering confidence, and it sounds provocative.
Mm. I wanna know more. Tell us, tell us more about what it means to [00:07:15] re-engineer confidence. Especially where we're at a time where some people think that certain groups should be humble. That strips away your confidence in ways. So tell me more about your concept of [00:07:30] re-engineering confidence. So back in 2018, I held a round table discussion, CEOs and VPs, c-level leaders of sales all around the table.[00:07:45]
And I asked them if a male individual contributor wanted to ascend to sales leadership, what would you coach 'em on? And they smiled and they said p and l, [00:08:00] business acumen, all those good things. Okay. Made sense, right? And I said, sure. Yeah. Yeah. So we talked about that forecasting, and I said, so if a female individual contributor wants to do the same ascend to sales leadership, what do you coach her on?
[00:08:15] Oh, well we've gotta get her confidence up. Hmm. And I said, Hmm. Why the discrepancy? Why doesn't she need business acumen training? And they said, Hmm, well, we've always done it that way, but that's [00:08:30] what we see. So it dawned on me two things. Number one, the playing field wasn't ever going to be level as long as we had that mindset.
You can't have women trained on different things yet. Expect [00:08:45] them to know the same things and hold them to the same standard. Then it also dawned on me that there was a gap that we want women to show up confidently, but [00:09:00] when we do have women show up confidently, we label them in a certain way. And because this is a certain kind of show, we're not gonna call it out.
But you know what that word is, right? I do. I do. So [00:09:15] the challenge becomes. How do we have it both ways? How do we have women show up confidently and assertively and yet have them not be labeled? And I don't think we can [00:09:30] have it both ways, so we have to pick our poison. Okay, so we, again, we, we go back to legacy and we, we look at your daughters and my niece.
What do we want? Do we want to pacify? Those who [00:09:45] label them, or do we wanna create a generation of women who are not going to worry about the labels and who show up assertively and get things done? Because they know that when they show up [00:10:00] authentically and powerfully, they give others license to do the same.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That, that, that's a real easy answer. Me. Yeah. Like I said, being a girl dad. Yeah. Also being the head coach of a women's wrestling program. Right. You know, we, we had an opportunity to talk a little bit [00:10:15] earlier about we want women that show up confidently. Mm-Hmm. That know that the odds are stacked against them in some ways.
But they're not intimidated by those odds. Right? Right. They're still able to go out and, and, and achieve whatever it is that they want. So my [00:10:30] question for you is, how do you see your work right now transforming the way that women leaders lead in their organizations? So, so many times women will deflect [00:10:45] compliments.
Men do it too, but overwhelmingly women do it more. You tell a woman. I love your earrings, and she'll say, oh, these old things, I got them on sale at Target. You tell her you like her shirt. Got it. At the thrift [00:11:00] store. I didn't ask all that, but we do it, yes. And no problem with that except when it comes to the workforce.
Okay? When she says, oh, it was a team effort, or, I didn't have anything to do with that. [00:11:15] She sends subtle messages that make leadership. Doubt her abilities and capabilities. So what I'm trying to do is there's a [00:11:30] framework I have in place that has women accepting daily affirmations to combat that. It's a daily practice to accept praise so that we can [00:11:45] reverse engineer confidence, create new neuro pathways.
Yeah. And create a new cognitive response. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that leads to one of my favorite phrases that I've heard you use over and over [00:12:00] again. Yes, thank you. It's true. Yes. Now, many of our audience members don't know the story. I'm not gonna keep it to myself. I'm tempted to keep it to myself, but I'm not.
I want them to hear the origin. Thank you. It's true. [00:12:15] And how you're leveraging it today and the conversations that you're having with women leaders. So women deflect compliments. Yes. But in Uganda, east Africa, women respond [00:12:30] to compliments, not by deflecting. Not by downplaying. They respond, by saying, thank you.
It's true. Mm. It's a gorgeous phrase. Not only are they accepting the compliment by [00:12:45] saying thank you, and for a lot of women, that's hard enough, but to own it by saying it's true, that's a whole nother level. It's like rocket fuel for your confidence because when I [00:13:00] say I just got these at Target, if you give me a compliment and I deflect it, I'm telling you a whole lot about my self worth.
It's in the toilet. I'm also slapping down your compliment and that [00:13:15] makes you feel badly. No one wins. But when I accept the compliment and then own it, I give you permission to own yours too. Yeah. And then we have a whole culture of women owning their awesome. And then we [00:13:30] have young girls owning their awesome.
And if we can teach young girls to own their awesome. Then maybe we don't have to fix adult women. I love it. As I said earlier, [00:13:45] what's the response been so far? Because in some ways I would imagine that some people could hear that phrase and think, oh, wait a minute. Excuse me. What did you just say? Oh, yeah.
On the other hand, I can [00:14:00] see some stepping into it as recognizing. An opportunity to graciously say thank you. It is true. What's the res? [00:14:15] I'm interested to hear what the response has been as you work with leaders across the globe, across multiple industries thus far. There are some who jump in both feet.
Ready to go? Just yes. Heck yeah. I'm ready to go. There are [00:14:30] some who are. I love it. And. I'm gonna test it out. Okay. I need to start with, thank you. And then I'm gonna start with, yeah, I need to dip my toes in the water. [00:14:45] And then there are those who say, I could never say that they have a, a ways to go because they are not confident enough to even say thank you.
They have, [00:15:00] they've drank the, the Kool-Aid. Humility and modesty, which is understandable because society has shown us that women who are too bold and too awesome [00:15:15] are in danger. If you think back to Malala Usai, women of the Salem Witch Trial, Joan of Arc, women have been beaten and burned and stoned.
So to be a strong [00:15:30] woman we have learned is to be in danger. And those, those underlying ideas still, still exist. So we have a lot of work to do in society. And then, not to mention, there's some people, like the, the gentleman that came up to [00:15:45] me that said, do you know what the Bible says about humility? Yeah.
And I said, that's interesting. What, well tell me, what does it say about humility? Somehow how some way [00:16:00] we have learned incorrectly that humility means the same as dimming your light and nothing could be further from the truth. From [00:16:15] humility does not mean that I cannot be proud of myself, that it does not mean that I cannot own my awesome.
We have a lot of work to do. Yeah, I'm up for it though. Yeah. I, I know you are. I know you are. If [00:16:30] there's somebody I'm bet my money on, it's you. It's you. And you know, it's, it's interesting because I think that introduces an interesting dichotomy of, as a leader, there's this struggle [00:16:45] between providing feedback and then now we're introducing.
This thought of affirmation where sometimes we don't receive it ourselves, and as you shared, sometimes women don't [00:17:00] hear it themselves and they've gotta coach themselves through it. [00:17:15] [00:17:30] [00:17:45] [00:18:00] if I am not a leader, I is practicing affirmation.
My work isn't being acknowledged. How do I transform and become a leader? [00:18:15] Who is actually encouraging my staff, especially the women on my team, to own their awesome intention. You have to make it a deliberate practice, and [00:18:30] sometimes you actually have to put a reminder in your phone. I need to go out and deliberately praise my team so that they in turn know to say thank you.
It's true. Mm. So that it [00:18:45] becomes second nature. Someone once said what gets measured gets improved, and if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. I can't see any other way to do it. Yeah, [00:19:00] it's, it's challenging. I, again, thinking back to the teams that I've led, I. I am a firm believer of creating a culture.
Mm-Hmm. That promotes the end result before we get there. Mm-Hmm. So I always want my team to feel like we're celebrating the [00:19:15] championship every day in small little ways, but there's, there are challenges that you don't know that people are dealing with. Mm-Hmm. Right. Like I used to always remind our leaders that we are managing people.
Mm-Hmm. So when someone comes to you [00:19:30] in the middle of the day and they say, I need to leave because my dog is sick. My cat's sick. My kid's sick, my husband's sick, my wife's sick. It's okay to say go ahead and head home. Mm-Hmm. Even if we had something that we wanted them to get done that day. [00:19:45] So when we think about how do you take positive affirmation and transfer it from what you're saying to yourself during encouraging your team to embrace it, I agree with a statement that you said earlier.
We have a lot of work to do. Mm-Hmm. [00:20:00] And. Some organizations are probably not gonna roll up the sleeves on this one specifically when we talk about women. Let's be honest. True, they won't. But I know that there are a lot of organizations who will [00:20:15] Yes, because they realize that performance is what drives culture.
Yes, culture can drive performance, but when we are doing good and feeling good. , everything is, is fine. [00:20:30] Yes. Sports professional. You look at any team you want, when they're on the high horse, things are good. Mm-Hmm. Now, when you're down in the valley, it's a different story. So I, I, I wanna know from your perspective, as you think about what's next for [00:20:45] you, and I'm leading to a, a piece that you're working on your book.
Mm-Hmm. What can we do to really empower. Individuals and organizations to embrace where we're going.
You want the big, [00:21:00] hairy, audacious goal? Yeah. Come on, bring it. I ain't afraid of you. Come on. Okay. Okay. Come. Goose bumps. I see a global movement. I see. I'm putting this out [00:21:15] there because I believe in the law of attraction. Yeah. I see a huge company to be named.
They're going to embrace this. They're gonna see, they're gonna see this, and they're gonna say, you know what? We're, we're all for that. [00:21:30] They're gonna pick it up with me, and they're gonna say, we're, we're behind this. We're gonna spark a global movement. We're girls and women are encouraged. Are [00:21:45] expected to own their awesome by saying thank you.
It's true. It's going to be more than a hashtag. It's going to be the norm. And when you don't say it, people are gonna look at you like you have a third [00:22:00] eye. Like what do you mean you're deflecting a compliment? What? We don't do that anymore. Yeah. Who are you? We, we, we don't do that. Yeah. That's gonna be the norm.
We're going to eradicate all of this [00:22:15] deflection. Downplaying no. Yeah, it we're going to rewrite societal norms. That's what we're gonna do. I love it and I love that we [00:22:30] can use platforms like this that have these types of conversations that. If we're being honest, they don't happen often. Mm-Hmm. And if they do happen, sometimes they happen in a very secluded [00:22:45] space.
But now we have a platform that we can use to shine the light bright. Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. On those amazing women sales professionals. Mm-Hmm. And leaders. We talk about [00:23:00] sales even outside of our industry of sales. Right. The leaders that are doing great work, that are inspiring team who happen to also be female.
Yes. And that's the exciting piece. Yes. [00:23:15] So I've known you for a long time. Mm-Hmm. And we've made it a staple of the show to ask a question at the end. All right. Bring it. If you could talk to anyone past, [00:23:30] present. Mm-Hmm. Maybe even future. Okay. You could have a conversation with that person. Who would it be and what would you say to them?
Mm.[00:23:45]
I would ask my future self what? [00:24:00] Was I too afraid to try that if I did, would have changed the world for the better. Hmm. And that is such [00:24:15] that, such an amazing thought. Because often the thing that separates those that are labeled as innovators is the. [00:24:30] Nerve to dive off the edge of the cliff. I tell this story to help people see the picture.
Imagine driving down a beautiful coastline, and as you're driving down the coast, you're taking in all [00:24:45] these beautiful views and there are these little pull off points where you can pull out, grab your phone, take a quick selfie, get a quick smiling, jump back in your car, and then all of a sudden you're driving and you notice that there's this one particular location.
There's lots of [00:25:00] vehicles and there are people running back and forth, and the people that are coming back to their vehicles, they're soaking wet and they're smiling and having a great time. The people that are exiting their vehicles, they're running at top speed trying to get to where those people came from, and you drive [00:25:15] past it and then you decide, I wonder what's going on there.
So you bust a youi, you park and you take a look, and you notice that there's a little cliff and people are diving into this. Crystal blue Ocean, [00:25:30] you have a choice to make. Do you get back in your car and say, I saw it, or do you follow the people that are sprinting out of their car toward those people that are dripping wet, and go down to that little perch and dive off the [00:25:45] end of the cliff?
And what's at stake is the experience of believing in yourself to do something a little unconventional. That's how I view you. I view you as a person [00:26:00] that gets out of the car sprints toward where the people are coming from. But you know that when you dive, you will have an experience that you can come back and share with people.
And I'm honored that you came onto our show today. Share the insights that you [00:26:15] have about the work that you're doing from. National Association of Women's Sales Professionals to the work that you're doing right now around affirmations and to where you're going in the future with your book and the other pieces that you're working on.
I'm honored to know you as a [00:26:30] personal friend, and more importantly, I'm, I'm honored for our audience to get to know you in a different way. I have to say. The thought of me jumping off a cliff really made my heart jump [00:26:45] and to think that you thought I would jump off a cliff. I'm thinking, how can I drive to the edge and, and jump into the water and then drive back up to the top and say, I'm wet with y'all [00:27:00] because I experienced the water too.
Yeah. But I love that you thought about me like that. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, you're very welcome. You're very welcome. And so with that. Thank you all for tuning into another episode of [00:27:15] Conversations That Matter. I'm your host, ed Ross with my great friend and guest, Cynthia Barnes. She may not jump off a cliff today, but I'm gonna keep working on it and get there.
I appreciate you tuning into this episode, and if you enjoyed this episode, I [00:27:30] encourage you to click the subscribe, like share. Let's have a conversation around the positive impact that affirmations can have for us. For our daughters, for the women leaders we know. Thank you for joining.