Mastering Communication in Construction: Tips from Nicole Fella

In this episode of 'Chicks and Construction,' host Mikki Paradis, with co-hosts Jessica Abreu and special guest Nicole Fella, jump into the communication challenges that arise in construction projects. The episode highlights the importance of clear communication between homeowners, project managers, and contractors to achieve better outcomes and fewer disputes. Nicole shares her unique experience as an interior designer and general contractor, emphasizing the significance of setting clear expectations and understanding communication styles. The discussion covers practical advice for homeowners, including the necessity of asking questions and ensuring detailed, specific contracts. Listeners are encouraged to use tools like DISC survey to improve their communication understanding. The episode underscores that respectful and clear communication is essential for successful renovation projects.

00:00 Introduction to Communication in Construction

00:23 Meet the Hosts and Special Guest

01:30 Nicole's Background and Expertise

02:54 The Importance of Communication in Construction

04:31 Common Communication Pitfalls

06:33 Setting Clear Expectations

10:09 Effective Communication Strategies

14:24 Managing Client Expectations

17:06 Balancing Communication and Flexibility

19:51 Handling Communication Challenges

24:18 Establishing Reasonable Communication Expectations

28:23 The Stress of Late-Night Texts

28:43 Respectful Communication in Business

30:12 The Mosquito Service Incident

32:55 Handling Disrespectful Clients

38:16 The Importance of Clear Contracts

40:08 Advice for First-Time Renovators

44:28 Understanding Quotes and Allowances

52:25 The Value of Professionalism

53:41 Conclusion and Final Tips

Creators and Guests

Host

Jessica Abreu

As a social media expert, Jessica has a knack for identifying what makes each business unique and translating that into powerful, engaging content that resonates with clients and customers. From crafting tailored strategies and managing accounts to recording on-site content and boosting engagement, Jessica and her team handle it all so their clients can focus on what they do best.

Host

Mikki Paradis

President & CEO at PDI Drywall Inc. Mikki founded her first construction company, PDI Drywall Inc, in 2005 while she was still a student at NC State. After growing PDI into a multimillion dollar company, she has become an accomplished entrepreneur, speaker, and advocate for innovation in business and leadership. With a passion for empowering others, she has built a reputation as a forward-thinking professional dedicated to driving growth and fostering meaningful connections. Known for her dynamic energy and ability to inspire, Mikki is deeply committed to creating positive change in her industry and beyond. Whether through her entrepreneurial ventures or speaking engagements, she consistently challenges the status quo and encourages others to reach their full potential.

Guest

Nicole Fella

a seasoned professional in the realm of interior design and construction, with a passion for transforming spaces into exquisite works of art. Having graduated from the prestigious Fashion Institute of Technology (F.I.T.) in New York with a degree in Interior Design, Nicole honed her skills and expertise in creating aesthetically pleasing and functional environments. With a dedication to excellence, Nicole pursued further qualifications and became a NASCLA Licensed General Contractor, demonstrating her commitment to mastering every aspect of the construction process. For over 11 years, she had been an integral part of The Bath Remodeling Center,LLC. where her talent and leadership have contributed significantly to the company’s success. Now, as the proud owner of The Bath Remodeling Center, LLC. (2024) Nicole brings her wealth of experience and creative vision to every project. With an unwavering commitment to customer satisfaction and a keen eye for detail, she leads her team in delivering exceptional results that exceed clients’ expectations. Since taking over ownership, The Bath Remodeling Center has been awarded Best Custom Home Builder/Home Renovation Specialist by Cary Magazine, and was recently featured in Architectural Digest. Nicole’s innovative approach to design, combined with her expertise in construction, allows her to transform ordinary spaces into extraordinary havens that reflect her clients’ unique tastes and lifestyles. Her dedication to quality craftsmanship and personalized service sets her apart in the industry, making her a trusted partner for those seeking to elevate their living spaces to new heights.

What is Chicks in Construction?

You plan your renovation with excitement, trust your contractor, and hope for the best...until things start going sideways. That’s when most homeowners realize they didn’t know what they didn’t know.

From permits that were never pulled to “contractors” who ghost after demo day, the construction world can feel like a maze of hidden costs and shady shortcuts. Too many homeowners end up confused, overwhelmed, and out of a lot of money.

The Chicks in Construction Podcast is here to change that. Hosted by Mikki Paradis, a licensed general contractor with 20+ years of experience, and Jess Abreu, a homeowner turned construction content creator, this show breaks down real renovation horror stories and teaches you how to protect your time, money, and home.

After building a multimillion-dollar drywall business and helping countless homeowners recover from construction nightmares, Mikki is on a mission to make sure you go into your next project informed, not blindsided. And Jess brings the perspective of someone who’s been in your shoes and now knows exactly what questions to ask.

Submit Your Construction Horror Story: https://chicksinconstruction.com/

33 - Chicks In Construction - Nicole Fella
===

. . [00:00:00] One of the biggest problems on any construction project isn't the work, it's the communication. In this episode of Chicks and Construction, we're sharing practical communication tips that help homeowners and project managers work better with contractors and traits.

Clear expectations, better outcomes, viewer surprises. Let's dive in.

Mikki : Well, hello and welcome back to another episode of Chicks in Construction. I am your host, Mickey Paradise, and I have two illustrious co-hosts today.

Jess: Hi, I am Jessica Abra and our special guest today is,

Nicole Fella: hi.

I am Nicole. Fella.

Mikki : Listen, here's the deal, y'all. We had Nicole on the show last year. Mm-hmm. And I just wanna tell you this story. She doesn't, oh, I told her this before leading up, but this was news to her. I was talking, as we know, I'm trying to get us an interior designer on the show 'cause we have questions.

I was talking to an interior designer who is a subscriber and she said that Nicole's episode was the best. She's like, of all the episodes, it was the best. And I was like, [00:01:00] well, good news. We are having her on the show tomorrow. So the timing was just a delight. So listen, I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie to your faces, I'm not gonna lie to your faces.

We could have been a little bit more intentional with some of the guests last year. So we are trying to have them back on the show to be more intentional and we're gonna try that today. So welcome back to the pod. Happy to have you.

Nicole Fella: Yes. Happy to be here.

Mikki : So tell us a little bit for those who are watching, you know, this is their first one with you on, tell us your background, your about your company, like give us the scoop.

Nicole Fella: So I am an interior designer by. Education. Oh, so I have my bachelor's in interior design.

Mikki : Why did I not know this? I've been like trying to source an interior designer and here you are.

Nicole Fella: Yeah,

Mikki : guys, I already did it without even knowing I did it.

Nicole Fella: Look at me. So my [00:02:00] degree is in interior design. I have worked in residential design my whole career.

Okay. Um, and. Worked for a local company, the Bath Remodeling Center, for 11 years before I took over ownership of the company. Oh, amazing. So I bought out the previous owner, um, I was the licensed general contractor for the company. The previous owner was not. So I was their qualifier and um. Now use my interior design and general contracting skills to put together beautiful bathrooms for our clients.

Mikki : That is a really rare combo. It's so a lot of, one of the things that we realized is why the importance of talking about interior designers is because a lot of homeowners assume that a general contractor is also an interior design, and that is actually a wildly rail rare combo. So you're kind of a unicorn.

Nicole Fella: I am a unicorn.

Mikki : Yeah. Look at you love

Nicole Fella: it.

Mikki : So here's the deal, y'all. I ran in to Nicole at a NAIC event at the end of the year and we were talking about the pod and [00:03:00] just like about our goals for this year, and she was sharing some stories of like, think communication that did not go well. And as we were talking, the more we got into it, the more we realized, wait a second, maybe communication and communication styles in construction and when you're doing construction projects should be a topic we should cover.

So that is what we're gonna cover today. Now I did not give, I did look at this. Look at this. If you're not, if you're listening, I'm holding up show notes because I made notes today because my word of the year is focused and I'm trying really hard.

Jess: You're doing so good with your word.

Mikki : Thank you. I am trying to be as focused as a focused lady can be.

Um, so I have notes. I'm not gonna read, like read, read them. I did, I did write down some important things and when I say I, I mean me and my best friend, Chad, GPT, we really worked it out. Um, cha GBT works a lot on the podcast. I love cha. Um, if there's, they're a full-time [00:04:00] employee, I do wanna rename it, like give it a better name.

Like Kiki, Kiki, Kiki, my assistant.

Jess: I think we still need to work on the name.

Mikki : Okay, that's fair. I did get good, good reception from that name. So I will, we'll keep workshopping the name. . As we were kinda, I was doing research and kind of putting this together. It was one of those things where we realized like understanding what your communication style and factoring that in when you are selecting your general contractor is really important.

How it, how are you seeing that play out? Or how would you like to see that play out when you're working with clients? Like what, what is, what do you try to communicate clearly, but where are you kind of seeing Hmm. That clearly wasn't communicated the way to, to in a way that they understood.

Nicole Fella: So there's a lot of factors that go into it.

Um, where they are emotionally, experience wise. [00:05:00] Um, people have lots of different levels of experience. They've done some DIY stuff themselves. They've worked with other contractors. They've watched a lot of HGTV.

Mikki : Oh, our favorite. Our

Nicole Fella: favorite. So they think that, you know, they have different levels of.

Knowledge when they come in. Yeah. And that knowledge frames how you interpret your information, right? Yeah. I can tell you to close your eyes and describe a beautiful day on a beach and give you as much descriptors as possible, but you're still putting your own spin on it. Right? You are picturing a completely different picture than what I am picturing.

Yeah. Because you're taking your own real life experiences and things you've seen and you've done, and you're putting them into that, and that comes into play with this.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Um, emotions vary. So if somebody's been stressed because they've had a bad experience before with a contractor, they bring that in.

Um, and one of the biggest things that we [00:06:00] find is people will say they understand. They say yes, yeah. And they, they don't, don't, don't understand. And whether it's just that they're afraid to admit it or they think that it makes them look like they, you know, they're not intelligent. Like,

Mikki : yeah.

Nicole Fella: Not having that, like embarrassed by it.

Yeah. Like not having that knowledge has nothing to do with intelligence.

Mikki : Right.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. So. F like people should be encouraged to ask questions often and early in the process.

Mikki : Yes. Yeah. One of the things I wrote down is like, the most, most construction disputes aren't about bad work. Um, it's really about unmet expectations.

Mm-hmm. And we see that in our homeowner horror stories. 'cause we kind of get this really interesting range of people writing in and sharing their stories, which we love you for doing that. Please go to chicks and construction.com and share your stories. Um, so we get this range of people who genuinely had an outrageously bad experience and people [00:07:00] who feel like they had an outrageously bad experience.

But when we, from that like, you know, 10,000 foot above the, the situation view, look at it. It's like, I don't actually think you had this horrible experience, but it seems like you had a lot of expectations that weren't met and those expectations. That you have that at the end of the day, if are not, they're not met.

You have, you feel like you had this bad experience. Unless you communicate those expectations with your general contractor, there's a really good chance they're not getting met.

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : So understanding what your communication style is and making sure you're looking for a general contractor that kind of works well with your communication style, I think is like actually could be a game changer in changing the outcome of your experience.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. I mean, what you said is a hundred percent true. So most issues with construction are communication issues. Yeah. [00:08:00] Yeah. And so it's a homeowner expected something, envisioned something and it's just not what was there.

Mikki : Mm.

Nicole Fella: Um, and there's ways that contractors can help mediate that situation. Yeah. Um, or mitigate, I guess.

Um. Your contract has to be clear.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: So as a contractor, we have to put as much information as we can in there. As a homeowner, you have to make sure you, you understand that information. Yeah. That it is the same thing that you are expecting, um, and that nothing is missing from what you are. Yeah. I mean, I've had clients in the end or halfway through the process, we say, well, we talked about that.

Mikki : Mm.

Nicole Fella: We we had discussed that. Yeah.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: We discussed dozens of thing things during the design process, and some of those things made it into the final design and the final contract and some didn't. Yeah. So,

Mikki : so is, so making sure, so making sure that you're not assuming

Nicole Fella: Yeah,

Mikki : [00:09:00] because we talked about it, even though it's not in the contract, she's gonna have it in there.

Yes. So that would be like one of your things to be like, Hey, listen, if you are, you really want X, Y, and Z in your renovation. Yes, you did talk to your, 'cause this actually one of the homeowners, the builder of the year homeowner. Yeah. That was an issue that they had. So they told the builder that they wanted T Trex, the builder gave them a price, didn't specify in the quote that it was Trex they were using, came loaded regular deck board at their house to do their deck.

And they were like, no, this isn't what we talked about. Yeah. And they were like, well, this is what we quoted. So it cost them like 30 grand more. 'cause that Trex is spicy priced. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's like a perfect example of making sure that you're communicating what specifically you want, especially if you have specifics Yes.

That you're like, this is a non-negotiable. I want this kind of deck boarding, or I want this kind of tile. And making sure not just that you have mentioned it, but it is in your [00:10:00] contract.

Nicole Fella: Yes.

Mikki : Okay. That that is hot tip. Mm-hmm. Hot tip. Mm-hmm. Um, one of the things that. I was, I was kind of doing a little research on, so kind of the core problem is like, we're using the same words, but it seems like there's a different meaning associated to it.

Yeah. Based on, like you said, experience and kind of how it, whether you have any kind kind of construction experience or whether you've done a renovation before or if this is your first one. Yep. There's such a big difference in like your understanding of those words and the meanings.

Like when you're dealing with a homeowner, are there certain words that you like avoid using? 'cause like they, I get, I had some like examples of like common phrases that cause confusion being like, oh, we're gonna do that soon. Well, when is soon? My idea of soon is yesterday.

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : Your idea of soon might be next week.

Yeah. So like, don't tell me soon. Tell me what day. Yeah. Is it tomorrow? Is it next week? Um,

Nicole Fella: that takes me to the space balls [00:11:00] quote. When Will then be now. Soon Will then be now

Mikki : when? Will then be now put it in writing. I mean that. Yeah. Spaceballs. I love that. I love that we're quoting Spaceballs. I love this for us.

Jess: And Jessica does not know what that is. Oh, because Jessica doesn't, didn't watch movies.

Mikki : She didn't get to watch movies as a child. She was deprived.

Jess: Deprived

Mikki : as her right to watch baseballs. And honestly, that's child abuse. It's, um,

Nicole Fella: they're making a second one. You have to now watch the first one in order to

Mikki : able to, yeah.

You have to watch the first one, which is a delight. Mm-hmm. And then watch the second one.

Jess: All

Mikki : right. That's exciting.

Jess: I'll be on, well, it's gonna snow, so it'll be something that'll Yeah. Have

Nicole Fella: plenty of

Jess: time have to watch.

Mikki : No, I love this for us.

Nicole Fella: But yeah, there are plenty, there are words, um, custom, ah, there's a word that can mean different things.

And. Again, the way you interpret a word

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Means something. If you go to the

Mikki : dictionary, I could see custom being really tricky because some people think custom is like, oh, you made it all from scratch. You

Nicole Fella: built it from scratch. Yes.

Mikki : But custom [00:12:00] from a design perspective could be, I designed this for you in a way that I'm going to customize it.

So like you could take pre-manufactured shelving and customize it for it to be custom for somebody's closet or you know, things like that. But if a homeowner is thinking, oh, they're gonna build custom cabinets, then they might be thinking, oh, this is just gonna be all.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. And there there's positive and negative connotations to that too.

Yeah. So there are things that we use the word custom for or customized, and homeowners here, cha-ching.

Mikki : Oh yeah.

Nicole Fella: And they think, oh my gosh, that's gonna be so expensive. Like I don't want something that's completely custom. Yeah. That doesn't necessarily

Mikki : mean

Nicole Fella: equate. Yeah. There's ways to customize, yeah.

Ready to assemble cabinets that are gonna be a much more affordable price point compared to a semi-custom line. Yeah. That has a lot more options compared to a full custom line. Oh yeah. So there's different levels of custom.

Mikki : Yeah. That custom is such a good word. Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] Um, so standard was another word, like industry standard.

Mm-hmm. Is a word I actually use a lot. Mm-hmm. And the funny thing is, in my industry. We do know what that industry standard is, but a homeowner would not know what industry standard is. No. And so using words like that in, in a contract, when a general contractor is using words like industry standard, um, I'm not gonna say it's a red flag because I don't think people do it.

Like, oh, I'm gonna say industry standard maliciously ha ha ha. And then you we're not gonna have addition definition for this word. I don't think people are doing that.

Jess: Yeah.

Mikki : But when you see words that you don't understand in your contract or that are ambiguous, it could, this could mean one thing to me and it could mean something else to you asking for clarification.

Well, what is the industry standard? Is there a document that states what an industry standard is? Yeah. Um, so getting like clear about that. Um, so then we've got, um, I. [00:14:00] The examples, like when people says, oh, we're gonna get to that sometime in the next seven to 10 days, no what day? You know? Mm-hmm. Be more specific.

Ask for more specifics. If you're the homeowner and if you're the general contractor, be more

Jess: specific. And does seven to 10 days means seven to 10 work days, business days, days that count, weekends. Or like, what is a business day in construction? Does that include Saturday?

Nicole Fella: Right. I think we, oh, sorry. Over communicate.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: So I have

Mikki : Like in your company?

Nicole Fella: Yes.

Mikki : Okay.

Nicole Fella: Um, as a whole, I have employees who've done work with other companies before they worked for me. Yeah. While they worked for me. Just different projects. So we don't do, and I am told the level of communication that we give is unheard of.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Um, and so. There's power in knowledge.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: But knowledge can also be used as a weapon.

Mikki : Mm. True.

Nicole Fella: So there, there has to be a happy medium where as a contractor we give a certain level of communication to the clients that they know what they can [00:15:00] expect. Yeah. Mm-hmm. They are comfortable with that. And it also doesn't tie you into something.

Right. Construction's a very fluid industry.

Mikki : Yes.

Nicole Fella: Mm-hmm. So we have a scope of work, we know what our timeline is, and we are more, um, specification oriented. Right. Like we're going task by task. Mm-hmm. And we're getting these tasks done in order to check all the boxes. And customers are more like results driven.

Yes. They just wanna see the finished product at the end. So there, there's differences in that. Um, and so we want to be able to communicate as much as we possibly can to them to make sure that they understand the process, because that builds a level of trust.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: And when people trust you, they listen more.

Mikki : Oh, so true.

Nicole Fella: So if we can get that level of trust to them and give them as much information as possible without it becoming a weapon. Right. Like

Mikki : Right.

Nicole Fella: If,

Mikki : give us an example, like how is over communicating weaponized, like, [00:16:00] as an example.

Nicole Fella: So we will, we give a, a big scope of work. Like when I sit down with a client initially, I tell them this is what basically happens each day of the project,

Mikki : right.

Nicole Fella: We have a very structured timeline for our remodels. Mm-hmm. We just do bathrooms and some closets and kitchens, but we're just mostly doing bathrooms. Um, and so we know what our timeline is. So I know it happens day one with day four day. I know what happens each day and I can, you know, give those out to clients.

And we have a DocuSign that goes out and gives those breakdowns. Mm-hmm. Great. But we is great, but we're very explicit in that too, that like, this isn't set in stone,

Mikki : right? Mm-hmm.

Nicole Fella: If. We have here that the framing inspection happens on day four, and that happens on day five. It's okay.

Mikki : Oh,

Nicole Fella: okay. It doesn't mean that your project is behind schedule, and it doesn't mean things are falling through the cracks.

And I think that's what I see from clients occasionally is like, well, [00:17:00] the granite guys didn't show up today. We didn't, we didn't get our countertops today. And it's like, don't worry about it. We, we handled it. We already know. So there's a level of communication that we give them, but we also are not like giving them daily updates of like, okay, this is what's happening today.

This is what's happening tomorrow. This is what you can expect. It's more of an overview,

Jess: okay.

Nicole Fella: Right. Of this is what's, what will be going on. This is what's happening.

Jess: It's kind of like these are the steps that need to happen. So like.

Nicole Fella: It's like an outline.

Jess: Like an out. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe say instead of on day something, it'll be like step one.

This. Yeah. Step two.

Mikki : I think that is such a great idea, is giving people like, Hey, this is the process. Here's what I want you to know, what to expect. Especially 'cause like when you're doing a bathroom renovation, people aren't moving out of their houses for a bathroom renovation, so they're living through it.

Mm-hmm. And I think like knowing that they can mentally go through and look at the list and be like, all right, this is done. Okay, I'm halfway there. Yeah. I think that's brilliant. But I can also see [00:18:00] the, the side of it, you know, obviously I, in what I do, I'm not even dealing with the owners of the apartment complexes, but my general contractors do.

And so we are, we're working on a job in Apex right now. And the owner is unique, um, unique is how I would put it. And he is very like. This hasn't been done. We're behind and it, that's just not really how construction works. Like, you know, we, we have this idea of like, okay, this is how we're gonna try to make it happen, but at the end of the day, if we can get to the finish line.

Roughly in, in the amount of time that we said it's gonna take. Like

Jess: and on budget.

Mikki : Yeah, on budget. I mean, my gods

Nicole Fella: today. That's what I, yeah, that's what I was gonna say is like, so we have a typical 13 day turnaround time for a bathroom remodel.

Mikki : That is, that's really good. Amazing.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. And so that is 13 business days.

Mikki : Business

Jess: days guys, not Sundays.

Nicole Fella: And we're there, or

Mikki : Saturday,

Jess: I'm sorry.

Nicole Fella: And we're there straight through. [00:19:00]

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: So I don't come in a day or two, leave for a week, come back a day or two. So it's not 13 days. Spread out over months. Yeah. It's 13 consecutive business days.

Mikki : Oh wow. That is amazing.

Nicole Fella: As long as we are in that, in and outta that house in 13 business days, we are not behind schedule.

Mikki : Right.

Nicole Fella: Right.

Mikki : Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. So if my countertops typically go in on day eight and they don't go in until day 10. That didn't delay anything. Yeah. 'cause my plumber doesn't usually come back until day 12.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: So nothing got delayed. So

Mikki : it's not expertise that you have that knows the flow and knows the schedule and is like, Hey guys, listen we have, it's almost like you have fluff built in there for like the NANS that will shennan once and shenanigan.

Yeah. Because it's construction and that's just how that works.

Jess: Yeah.

Mikki : You know, what is it the phrase like, we plan and God laughs or something like that. Yes. I mean it's just, that's a huge piece. So I love the idea that almost like over communicating can, and maybe that's why general contractors, so many, [00:20:00] every single one of our horror stories, the, it starts with bad communication.

Mm-hmm. And so part of me wonders like maybe general contractors started out communicating overly. Got shot in the foot because they said something was gonna happen this day. It didn't. And

Jess: it could be.

Mikki : Yeah. And you know, Becky came for that guy's whole throat 'cause he didn't meet that deadline. And he was like, I'm never giving a deadline again.

Jess: And this is just a thing that I just see in the, in the world, is that women are more detail oriented

Mikki : facts

Jess: and we, we like a, we like a plan, we like knowing what's going to happen. We do love a plan. Yeah, we do. And guys are not, so there are so many more general contractors who are men than they're just like, that's gonna get done.

Don't worry about we'll

Mikki : be, don't worry about it. Sweet britches. Oh my God. Can you imagine that somebody actually called you that?

Jess: I think it's great that you have like, this is, this is what's gonna happen. This

Nicole Fella: is, yeah. I like, I communicate in the way [00:21:00] that I would wanna receive information. Right. And so that's, yeah.

That's the only way, like I'm very much, I I wanna know the why behind things. Right? Okay. So if I'm learning something, like I am all in learning and know all the details.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: If I'm watching a show, I am deep diving. Yes. Every single information and giving and teaching my husband all of the, he does not care.

He doesn't wanna know he's

Jess: much, lemme watch it. I wish trying to zone out here just enjoy.

Nicole Fella: But I am doing all the research and that's how I communicate too. Okay. So like, I wanna have that level of communication. I wanna explain it. And there are some people who are like, yeah, we've done this before. That sounds very much like what we experienced.

We get it. Great. There are some people who have absolutely no idea. And that's where you get more the of the yeses.

Mikki : Mm.

Nicole Fella: If somebody hasn't done it before and doesn't have any experience with it, they'll give you that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Mikki : Okay. Sounds great. And then,

Nicole Fella: and then you find out, they're like, well what was that?

That's not what you said. That's not what I expected. So [00:22:00] the, that. Being able to receive that information. Like everybody has different learning styles, everybody has different communication styles. Yeah. Like definitely don't be afraid to be like, what does that mean?

Mikki : Yeah. I, so that's like first, first tip is ask questions.

I, it just, the reality is, I know it sounds like simple, but, and, and to be fair, if you don't think about a question in the moment, like, that's totally fine. Hector and I have very different communication styles and he, I, you know, my mind is going all the time. He's pretty much, and just, just shows up. Like he's just, information comes in and like the next day he'll be like, oh, by the way, so it's, it's fine if in the moment you like don't understand something and you don't even realize you don't understand it, but the second that you feel like, huh, I don't really know what this means.

That's when you need to be reaching out and asking questions. Yeah. And, and as far as like helping homeowners spot kind of the disconnects early on, if you are asking questions and not getting answers or if you're feeling [00:23:00] at the very, like even at the interview process, like you're not being listened to or you know, you're opinions, you're, you're not feeling the communication vibes, that's a early indication that this isn't a great fit for you.

Yeah. Like paying attention and caring about how you're being communicated with, I honestly think will be a huge impact on the, the vibes, if you will, of your renovation.

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : So I think that is, is a huge thing to focus on. It's not just the price, it's not just all the other things you have to think about when you're hiring a gc, but it's also like, do they communicate in a way that, that makes me feel comfortable.

Do we have the same communication style? Do I understand them? Do I feel like they're using really big words, or they're kind of like talking to me in a way that's like, you know, what is it? Layman's terms? Mm-hmm. Like, mm-hmm. So those are things to consider. And then do you feel comfortable asking this person questions?

When you ask questions? Do you get answers that make sense to you and that you feel confident with? So I think that that's like a great way to [00:24:00] kind of start thinking about communication.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. I think I said last time, like the, it's a relationship.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: You're in a relationship, yeah. With this person. Yeah.

So you have to be able to have that level of communication, have a level of trust and understanding for that length of time.

Mikki : When you say that you don't give daily updates, like I'm assuming that means you're not literally calling them at the end of every day being like, all right, here's what happened.

Here's what didn't happen.

Nicole Fella: Right.

Mikki : But I'm assuming that you're all, but you are keeping them informed. 'cause what I wanna do is help set expectations. Yeah. What is a reasonable level of communication expectation versus an unreasonable level of communication expectation.

Nicole Fella: So we actually have a DocuSign that goes out that says,

Mikki : oh my God, I love that.

Nicole Fella: Reasonable communication expectations. So we, we send out communications, [00:25:00] um, at the end of day one.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Usually somewhere around day six or seven. Somewhere around day 10,

Mikki : right.

Nicole Fella: Day 13.

Mikki : Okay.

Nicole Fella: So they get four like set times of communication in there

Mikki : and then obviously if anything goes wrong, you are communicating with them in addition to that.

Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. Okay. So if there's something like we get a storm,

Mikki : yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nicole Fella: And the guys can't get out of their driveway and things gonna to be delayed, they're getting communication with that. Right. Okay. Like, we don't ever want our clients just be like, I don't know when they're gonna show up.

Mikki : Oh yeah. They didn't show up today.

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : And nobody

Nicole Fella: called me and I don't When they're coming back. Yeah. So I don't know what's going on. Like we, it's

Jess: apocalyptic is and snow, but they better come do my bathroom.

Mikki : No, that's legit a thing. Like we got, I got a spicy, spicy email from a client because we didn't show up on Monday. And I was like, D.

What come again, like the world was shut [00:26:00] down on Monday. For those of you who don't know, we live in North Carolina, does not have the infrastructure for snow events. We don't get them very often, so it's fine until it's not. And we are currently in it's snow. We're in a moment. Okay, we're global warming, real hard up in here's

Jess: and the world.

Shut down.

Mikki : Yeah. Yeah. It was like an an inch, maybe an inch. I don't even, I don't know. I don't really measure things. I stayed in my jam jams the entire time. So imagine my surprise when I got this spicy email about, oh, you know, how come you, oh, you mean when the world was shut down? Yeah. We weren't getting in our cars and driving to your job site.

Yeah. Sorry about that. So that's a great thing like. Paying attention to how much level of communication you want versus how much level of communication that general contractor is willing to give you. And I love the idea of you guys saying in a DocuSign, Hey, this is how much your communication you're gonna get.

Jess: Mm-hmm.

Mikki : And then that way they go into it knowing this is, this is when I'm going, [00:27:00] I expect to hear from my gc Yeah. This is when I expect to get them. '

Jess: em, like when they send you spicy text, be like, refer back to the DocuSign.

Mikki : Please reference, please reference my previous

Nicole Fella: email. We have, so I, I don't honestly text with clients because I try to separate that.

Yeah. But I have had a client more recently that communication was a big problem with, and we tried to be as communicative as possible and detailed oriented and they just were not budging or not understanding. Right.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: And that's a whole different story, but. She had texted us, both me and my project manager at like 9:00 PM on a Sunday night, and we did not respond.

Mikki : Yeah, that's fair.

Nicole Fella: And then the next morning we responded via email, which is the way that we instruct our clients to communicate with us. Okay. And so, um, I responded to her also via text and said, Hey, please just know all communication has to come through the email.

Mikki : [00:28:00] Yeah.

Nicole Fella: My whole team, my whole office team monitors that email.

So this way you definitely get a response. Somebody's gonna see it and we're not using our personal

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Contact info after hours and all. And the response I got back from her was that. She was en route to go meet her new grand baby and that she couldn't deal with me and my stress at this level. And I was like,

Mikki : oh,

Nicole Fella: hmm.

Mikki : Okay, but,

Nicole Fella: but you could text me at 9:00 PM on a Sunday night, right?

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: With a question. Yeah.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: And that does not matter what level that brings my stress to.

Mikki : Right.

Nicole Fella: But when I'm politely and respectfully asking you to utilize the communication guidelines that we've provided,

Mikki : then you're stressing her out to the point where she just literally can't with you.

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : So this brings us to a good point, like. We're in a weird time to be alive right now. It's just a real weird time to be alive in the sense where I don't know what is happening. Like, did mom stop raising their kids? I'm [00:29:00] not sure what's going on, but this idea that like, I can speak to you. However I want because I'm paying you to do a job.

Um, I don't know who told you guys that or anybody watching that thinks that's a thing. It's actually not, um, respectful communication, no matter what your communication style is, is important. I'm a very direct communicator. I feel like we probably all would imagine that to be pretty accurate. I'm

Jess: shocked.

Mikki : Yes. Jess is like, no, say nothing. Oh

Jess: my God, you don't say that.

Mikki : And even like, I have to be very intentional when I'm communicating with people, especially when I'm kind of in direct communication mode to do it, you know, communicate in, in the way that I communicate. But respectfully, you can be a direct kinda speaker, but also do it respectfully.

And I've. Been in phases of my life where [00:30:00] I was so epically stressed out that I was unable to communicate respectfully with people. And here's the thing, guys, that's not the fault of of anybody but me. So. You know, here's an example. I had. I had a bee, not a bee. Um, I had a mosquito service. And I also love the bees.

I'm a big fan. Like my, my neighbor down the street, one of the ones I don't hate, um, he keeps like 36 beehives. He make, they make, he makes amazing honey, like, oh wow. Big fan. So I don't wanna be out here in these streets murdering my neighbor's bees. It's like, I know I'm trying to kill your children. So I hired this mosquito company and they came out and sprayed my yard.

And their whole claim to fame was that their, um, the owner of their company, the founder of their company, was kept bees. So obviously he cares so much about the bees. Well, you know, the 16-year-old kid, they hired to come spray my yard, or he's probably not 16, but the 18-year-old kid that he doesn't care about bees.

So he comes out, he sprays my [00:31:00] yard at a, at a time where you're not supposed to spray, and a bunch of bees died and I was hot. Also, I was not in a great place mentally. So I call this mosquito company and I read them the Riot Act and their response was so perfect. They were like, ma'am, I just want you to know like this isn't okay.

And while we appreciate that you're upset about this, like you're, the, the way that you're communicating with us is not, it's not respectful and it's not okay and we're gonna actually not keep you as a client. So I got fired. I was like, and you know, I'm so grateful that they did that. I'm so grateful that they set took the time to send that email because that's snapped me, right?

I was like, holy crap, I did do that. Like I took things too far and that's not okay. And so no matter what your communication style is, and no matter how stressed out you are, especially when somebody is not causing the problem, um, I. Or even [00:32:00] if they are causing the problem, I just, this level of communicating so disrespectfully, um, to the point where people feel attacked and people are just like, I don't even know how to respond to this.

Like, guys, that's not okay. Like sending you a text. Here's the thing, I am a late night texter. Let's just be honest. Joe got one from me last night. He didn't respond. I'm fine with that. I get that. I was kind of just trying to figure things out. I understand that people have weird, not weird boundaries.

Boundaries. So weird. Joe, get less boundaries. I understand that people have normal boundaries. I'm gonna send you a text whether you respond to it or not. I'm not gonna be mad about it, but understanding like, okay, yeah, boundaries are a thing. Mm-hmm. Like let's, let's engage in a little bit more boundaries.

Let's think about what we say before we say it. No matter what your communication style is like, you have to be communicating respectfully. And that's a lot of. I don't think I've told you this story. A couple years ago I got hired to come in and [00:33:00] do some con consultation work with somebody who was having a very bad experience with their general contractor.

And, um, they brought me in and there were no signs that this woman was no signs. Um, so I reach out to the GC and I say, Hey, can I explain the situation? Like, Hey, I've been brought in, you know, to kind of just help finish this thing out. And the lady goes, thank God you deal with her. And she sends me no less than five of the most inappropriate emails that this homeowner has sent to this general contractor.

Turns out when she was on the sauce, so she would get sh. Crazy drunk at night. She wouldn't email type up these spicy drunk lady emails and they were like, you know, there's levels of irrational and crazy and nonsensical. I don't [00:34:00] even know where this ranked. They were so crazy that I went to the homeowner.

Homeowner. Now I like, listen, I'm gonna give you your money back. If you were to ever send me an email like this. I don't know that they'd find your body. So I, I'm just gonna save your life and mine 'cause I don't look good in orange and I don't wanna have to encase your body inside of a wall system. So here's your money back.

Good luck. May the force be with you. And that is the thing, like just because you're paying somebody to do a job for you does not mean I'm looking at whoever, you can talk to them however you want. We may be blue collar workers. We're doing a skill that you don't know how to do. Treat us with the same respect as you would treat anybody who's working on anything you care about that is doing work that you don't know how to do.

Like I can't stress how much important that is. Respectful communication all the way throughout. Yeah. Like listen, come on. How the fact that we even have to say that is kind of wild to me. But like, just seeing so [00:35:00] many examples, it's kind of crazy 'cause you're not, the other interior designer shared a story about.

I got this four page letter from the homeowner, and it was a massive amount of miscommunication, but it was also communicated in a way that was so aggressive that the lady just walked. She was like, okay, I don't, this just isn't what I went to school for.

Nicole Fella: Yeah, I, I mean, I've pulled off jobs. I've had clients calls screaming and yelling over minor mistakes.

It was a mistake. It was an admitted mistake. We were making it right and screaming and yelling at the phone where I was finally like, you know what? I'm pulling my guys. Yeah. I I'm not going to stay there. I'm not, I'm not gonna be spoken to like this. My employees are not gonna get spoken to like this.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: And we pulled off the job and it had to take like meeting of the minds to sit back down and be like, are we adults? Are we gonna move forward? Because now we can if we're gonna do that.

Mikki : Right. But yeah, coming at it with respect and respectfully can't stress this enough guys. Um, it feels [00:36:00] like we all should have learned that in like grade five, but if you're learning that now, it does matter how you communicate with the people Yeah.

That you're working with. I, no matter what industry you're in or what you're doing, that level of communication and respectful communication is really important.

Nicole Fella: And to tie in all of your things, you catch a lot of more bees with

Mikki : honey.

Nicole Fella: Honey and vinegar.

Mikki : Right. I like that. I like that.

Nicole Fella: So as a client, if you're looking to get your contractor to do something for you

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Being nice about it

Mikki : Right. Will

Nicole Fella: be helpful. Is a much easier way to get what you want. Um,

Mikki : I thought we knew that. I just like, like as somebody who is spicy, you guys, I'm spicy, so I have, I have, you know, really done some interesting things in my life and even I, who is capable of just wild things coming out of my mouth.

I'm aware

Nicole Fella: how to [00:37:00] behave.

Mikki : How to behave. Yeah. You know, for the, for the most part,

Jess: I don't know how to behave. I tell my husband when I'm upset with something, I be like, you deal with it? Oh,

Mikki : I wish I could do that. I just like, here's how I deal with it. I don't, I'm not dealing with it.

Jess: I'm gonna go take

Mikki : a nap.

Jess: Do we want them to come back? Yes. I want them to finish it, but I want them to finish it this way. Um, it was our patio. There was, there was a language barrier.

Mikki : Mm.

Jess: And our contract was drawings and a few numbers on it.

Mikki : Words, words, words. And some numbers.

Jess: No, not even words.

Mikki : Oh, no

Jess: words.

Mikki : Numbers.

Jess: Literally pictures and numbers.

Mikki : Oh, I love that.

Jess: That's what it was. And like

Mikki : mistakes were made there. That's not a clear contract. That's

Jess: not a clear contract. But yeah. So then when the draw, when they said that they were done, but it looked nothing like my drawing, like literally the, he drew it on a piece of paper when it was, and

Mikki : did not build what we

Jess: drew.

I was like, this, where is this?

Mikki : It's not that.

Jess: These, these things do not match. Let's circle what's different. [00:38:00] You're

Mikki : like, here, I

Jess: have a

Mikki : highlighter.

Jess: Brad's like, I will, I will, I will talk to them. I, he's honey, I want this picture. This is what I want.

Mikki : Honestly, obviously we want your contracts to have words.

That's an important thing. But tell me, Nicole, what do you think about. I think there's not, it, it's an important, not a bad idea to go to your contractor with pictures. Like maybe they're not in your contract. Maybe they're, I don't know. But I think pictures are a great way to like, okay, this is so, it's very clear.

What, what do you think about putting pictures in contracts?

Nicole Fella: My contract has pictures.

Mikki : Oh. Oh my God. Of course it does. Nicole. She's like doing

Nicole Fella: this boxes. So my contract is actually a, a plan which has words and numbers and everything dictated as what it is, and then it was

Jess: before the podcast.

Mikki : Okay guys, Jess is like, stop hounding me

Nicole Fella: and [00:39:00] then rendering.

Okay. So there are perspective renderings of their cabinet wall. There are showers. Okay. If there's any specific details, like those things are highlighted. If there's something that we are copying from something else we've done or something they've sent us, they want us to build custom shelving that looks like this.

That picture is on there too.

Mikki : Okay. So I'm not crazy for saying pictures should be in your contract.

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : Oh, that makes me happy. Lucky

Jess: you not being crazy.

Mikki : Yeah. Not today. Well, not in this moment. I might get

Nicole Fella: crazy later. No, I will say though, there are different ways to get to that end result. Right,

Mikki : right.

Nicole Fella: And so homeowners don't have the experience.

Mikki : Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nicole Fella: Or the know-how on how those things have to be made. And that's kind of where their, their background comes in. Like they've done a project themselves, they've watched it on tv, they've experienced somebody else doing something for them. Yeah. Um, so getting to the end result can happen in a [00:40:00] variety of different ways, and you have to trust your contractor to know that they're going to get into

Mikki : that results.

So what advice would you give a potential client that has no experience? They've never done a home renovation. They don't know anything about, you know, contracting, construction at all. What advice would you give a potential client. At that experience level when it comes to understanding communication.

Nicole Fella: So you have to know yourself and know what you want.

So if you're coming in and you're saying, well, I wanna redo this bathroom, but I don't really know what I wanna do in here. Yeah, right. I know I want more storage. I know I want new tile, but I don't know what the finished product's gonna look like.

Mikki : Mm-hmm.

Nicole Fella: Um, you have to know something, right? Yeah. You have to have a jumping off point.

So whether that's [00:41:00] finding photos going on house, going on Pinterest or whatever, yeah. You have to have some sort of jumping off points so that you can use that as your communication step in order to get on the same page as your contractor. Um, don't just accept. Two line drawings without seeing product in there.

Um,

Jess: because it was just a patio.

Nicole Fella: No. Right. So there, and there's different, right. So with a patio or a deck. Yeah. I mean, you're not like sitting there going through all of these different products for what we do, there's a lot of things. So, so

Mikki : many things.

Nicole Fella: One of the, the best tools that we have is our showroom.

Mm-hmm. So clients come into our showroom, they get to see real bathrooms.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: There's 11 full bathrooms in there, so they not

Mikki : That's amazing.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. So they can stand in a shower that's about the same size as the shower they're gonna get. I, 'cause that's one of love that the things that is the hardest for people to

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Figure out. Right? Yeah. Like I have this little three by three shower now and I want a bigger one. Yeah. [00:42:00] But I don't know what's too big and what's the right size and how does that feel? So they can actually stand in the shower. Mm-hmm. There's recess niches. Well, there's a. Dozen or more ways of building a recess niche.

So showing the different versions of those, they can actually pick it and be like, that's the one that I want. And now that's the one that they get. Um, they get to open and close the cabinets and play with the drawers and the cabinet hardware and we're pulling all those things together. And now not everybody works that way.

Right, right. So you can work with a contractor who doesn't have a showroom.

Mikki : Right.

Nicole Fella: That's okay. Um, that's where maybe hiring an interior designer would come in. Yeah. Because they would be the ones to help you pick those materials out and put everything together for you. So you want to make sure that those parts and pieces go together.

Yeah. That you're understanding exactly what that material is. Yes. Because I can tell you, I'm giving you white shaker cabinets. Do you know how many shades of white there are?

Mikki : True story.

Nicole Fella: [00:43:00] So,

Jess: so many shades.

Nicole Fella: And

Mikki : also like more specifically like. I, we did a renovation in the Turks and Caicos, which was a wildlife experience.

I don't recommend building on an island off of an island. Um, but listen, if you wanna do it, do you boo? What I found was even the, the assumptions about the materials was like, you know, this client assumed that everything would be solid wood of, of course they didn't wanna pay a solid wood price, but they just made the assumption that it was gonna be solid wood.

And so realizing the importance of, on the general contractor side being very specific in, you know, the information that I'm giving, like, okay, listen, these are partially, you know, the wood, the face is wood, the box is not wood. Yeah. And being very clear. So, because I feel like that is a, a place where homeowners get a.

Really fired up and start to feel [00:44:00] like you are not being honest with me or you're screwing me over. Um, because I expected, I expected, nobody told me to expect this, but I just, in my mind, I expected these to be solid wood cabinets. And I thought $16,000 for a kitchen full of solid wood cabinets was the right amount of money.

It's not just in case you, it's not. I expected it be told me it was, but Joe Chip and jojo, they did it in somebody else's house, so you should be able to do it too. That's not how that works. So just realizing like that level of detail and when you get quotes, I imagine you, you have, you have a lot of competition.

Mm-hmm. But at the same time, there's not a lot of kitchen and bath people that have showrooms. So you're, you get brought in, you, you know, people are hopefully getting three to four bids. Your number is gonna be different because you're offering a different experience. Yeah. So when you're, you know, looking at these numbers, a interior designer.

Yeah. I mean, that is

Nicole Fella: one of the things I tell people is it's not like you're [00:45:00] shopping for a refrigerator, right?

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Where if you go to four different stores and you look at that refrigerator in each store and you don't buy it for the cheapest price.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: You're just throwing money away.

Mikki : Right. Right, right,

Nicole Fella: right.

You are not shopping like that when you're shopping for contractors. Right. And so that's where the communication and the trust and all of those things come in. Right. Like, you need to know our expertise, our experience. You need to see examples of work.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: Um, whether that's in a showroom or photos of jobs Yeah.

Or reviews or asking for references. Yeah. Um, so you have to put all that information together. Yeah. In order to be able to.

Mikki : Yeah, make

Nicole Fella: decision.

Mikki : And so factoring that in, you know, when you're getting, just even in the estimate and the proposal section of it, when you're getting a 13 page or I'm, I'm sure your proposals aren't 13 pages.

What's your average length of your proposals?

Nicole Fella: Probably about three pages.

Mikki : Okay. So you're getting a three page proposal that's going, that's listing the, the, the types of [00:46:00] materials that are being used versus a one page, maybe it has words, maybe it doesn't, maybe it has pictures, it has some numbers thinking about, okay, and now you know that's the cheaper number.

Like you're getting a three page very professionally done proposal, and then you're getting a one page with some drawing and numbers on it. It's gonna be the cheaper number. And so then ask yourself, you're like, oh yeah, this is a better price, but is it better because you're much included. They're communicating nothing with you in that document that is going to turn into a legally a binding document, and they're providing you with absolutely nothing to protect you from.

This going wrong?

Nicole Fella: Yeah.

Mikki : So is it the cheaper number? Because at the end of the day

Nicole Fella: cost

Mikki : a lot. It's probably gonna cost you a lot more. Does. So factoring those things in and thinking about those things is really important. And I know that it's hard, you know, it's easy to say it when I'm not currently planning a renovation or I'm not currently fielding, you know, proposals and looking at, you know, [00:47:00] okay there's a 10,000 or there's a $50,000 difference.

I get that, that's easy. But thinking through. The long term, how is this going to end, I think is really important.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. And don't be afraid to communicate that to your contractor. So I've had plenty of clients who've been like, I've gotten a bid that was less than yours, and I've asked them to come in with it.

I'll be like, well look it over. We'll compare.

Mikki : Yeah.

Nicole Fella: It, you're never comparing apples to apples because the level of expertise varies. Yeah. The level of efficiency varies, right? Yes. So part of the, the cost, um, or value that you're getting through us is that expertise Yeah. And that project management. Yeah.

That we're seeing it through the whole thing. You're not just, you know, waiting to see when somebody shows up. We're there every day. We're efficient, but. For the things that are controllables, the materials. Yeah. Those things we can look at and say, okay, well they're giving you an allowance on tile. I'm giving you the tile you actually picked out.

Jess: Mm.

Nicole Fella: How does that compare? That's a [00:48:00] big difference.

Mikki : Yeah. Yeah.

Default_2026-01-29_1: Yeah.

Nicole Fella: So those are things,

Jess: how much are they gonna charge you for the tile that you want?

Nicole Fella: Right.

Jess: Is that

Mikki : right? Because, and that is a really good point. The difference between, and I deal with this all the time, and what I do an allowance. An actual quote.

Mm-hmm. That is, there is a huge difference in that. So I'm coming in and I'm saying, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna allow, in this budget, in this estimate, there is an allowance of $7,000 for your tile. Now if you have clearly communicated what kind of tile you want, there should just be a price. Mm-hmm. Okay.

This, we, we measured your bathroom. We know how much tile you're gonna need. We, you told us what kind of towel you want. This is the, this is the price for the tile. If somebody's coming in and saying, we're giving you an allowance of this, I'm gonna, especially when you were specific about the type of tile that you wanted, I'm throwing a flag on that play because the reality is they're, they don't wanna tell you how much it actually costs.

'cause they want the job and then they wanna come back and they wanna be like, oh, by the way, you exceeded your allowance on the tile, so it's gonna [00:49:00] be five grand more.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. And that's where you get change orders in. Yeah. And so I would rather work with zero change orders.

Mikki : Yes. Um, same. I hated Jack

Nicole Fella: on change order.

It's inevitable happens. Yeah, it happens. Things change. It happens. But yeah. The more that you can communicate upfront, the more that you can be clear about what exactly they're getting. Yeah. And what's included so that they understand it and you understand it and everybody signs off and agrees. Yeah. The less

Jess: so

Nicole Fella: we have to deal with that.

Jess: Allowance just means that they're going to say that you have X amount of dollars to put towards

Mikki : on this item. Yep.

Jess: And then if it's more, you have to come outta have to pay the difference. Come outta pocket. It's not okay.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. And depending, just wanna make

Jess: sure that,

Mikki : yeah, yeah. We

Jess: cross all the same page.

Nicole Fella: Depending on the contractor too. It can. It could be your responsibility to go and find where you want to get that tile from, if that's what we're talking about. And so then you gotta do all that homework of going around to all those different places. And time is money.

Mikki : Oh yeah.

Nicole Fella: And so you as a homeowner are [00:50:00] now going to five different places to try and find the tile that you want in a price that you, the price, price that

Mikki : you, that

Nicole Fella: you're

Mikki : to the allowance, right?

Mm-hmm.

Nicole Fella: And then if you get tile, your floor tile from this place, but you can find your wall tile from the other place, you have to hope that those work together, that they're both available. That so the, that's like kind of going back to where the value of us is, where with the project management portion of it, you're not playing project manager.

Yeah. So you don't have to go around and source all those things. You pick everything out with us in the showroom. And if there's by chance something we don't have, we go and source it and bring it to the showroom to show you that, okay, we found it, this is what we're going to use. Is this the one you want?

So you wanna have as much information as possible so that you can know clearly what you're going into and. I mean, I don't think it's wrong to ask your contractor to give more information on the

Mikki : contract.

Nicole Fella: Yeah. So

Mikki : honestly, if you're getting multiple quotes and, and, and they're somebody that you really wanna [00:51:00] work with, but they're the highest quote, I, myself included, Nicole, obviously.

Go to them and say, Hey listen, I really wanna work with you. What is the difference between, why is this one so much lower? Yeah. Like, what am I missing here? Because if you end up paying the, the more amount of money you're gonna wanna know, because if you don't ask that question, that lower number is gonna live rent free in the back of your head, the entire renovation.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you're, in your mind, you're gonna make up this, this little la la land. Delightful little story about how if you had gone with, with, with Joe Schmo, um, that was $10,000 less, you'd be, you could get that Viking refrigerator. Could you, or would Joe Schmo now have $20,000 worth of change orders?

So, because in his bid compared to a qualified person's bid, um, he didn't, he had allowances, not actual quotes of how much the tile was gonna cost. And that is a really big difference.

Jess: Yeah. And I feel like too, some homeowners would think like, oh, I'm paying this much more. So now I expect more from them, [00:52:00] where if they had just gone and got their questions answered, they would've seen like.

This is because you know you are going to communicate well. I already have the tile, I have the high end finishes of what you want. And that's all in here because like. I mean, some people think like, oh, if I'm paying more, like, I want that white glove service. Well, sorry, he, right.

Mikki : Like this is just the price of what it costs and that, and this is,

Jess: yes.

Mikki : I think the most frustrating thing for general contractors in general, especially the ones that are doing things the right way, they're competing against people who are not. Mm-hmm. And so everybody, everybody, you have to understand when you're getting multiple quotes, and this is why we preach on this, we preach on the importance of getting multiple quotes.

Because you need to see the spread, you need to see the level of professionalism that each one of them are giving you a three page proposal versus a one page proposal. The, the questions, we have immediate questions. And so really understanding what things actually [00:53:00] cost, which, listen, Justin, and I know that's tricky.

It's tricky. Um, it's a little tricky. So understanding what things really cost, asking questions, getting comfortable with the answers is really important to help your peace of mind. And. When you go with that more expensive quote, make sure you understand that it's more expensive because you're getting what you pay for.

You're not getting things for free because you're paying more, you're not getting the white glove service. This is just what things cost. It's, but it just cost, you're getting the price to actually get it finished

Jess: and you're getting high quality service. Yeah. It might not be like white Glo. You gotta pay extra for that.

Mikki : It exists in the world. Just not this one.

Jess: Yeah.

Mikki : , So here's the thing. We've, I'm not gonna say we went off on a tangent, but we may not have hit everything on the show notes that I wanted to hit, because I think the important thing is to understand is that one, we, we can only, you know.

Control our communication style. And it's really important to understand what your communication style is. So if you're thinking [00:54:00] about doing a renovation, we really want you to have the information that you need. So one thing that I put together, um, with the help of my assistant, Chad, GBT, was a survey that we're gonna share with you guys, um, that you can go to the website, hopefully we are gonna have it done.

We're gonna have it done by the time this goes live. Mm-hmm. So you can go to the website and you can take a survey that will help you identify using the disc, the DISC. Mm-hmm. Um, it's a like a, a. Communication style, um, breakdown. It's, and it's like science. It's not like, this is my opinion, it's science.

We use science, me and Chad, GBT, we use science. So there's a survey that you can use to figure out what your communication style is. And while you don't get to, you know, decide what other people's communication style is, knowledge is power. So going into planning a renovation around having the information of, I know what kind of communication style I have and therefore [00:55:00] when I go and I'm looking for these different, I can look for people who match my type of communication style.

So we want to help set you up. To have the best experience you can. So we're gonna share with you, if you go to the website, you can download the communication style survey and it is there for you to just have more knowledge to be able to better communicate. So please, um, if, if you're into that, if you, if you wanna communicate better, especially in construction or with a renovation, please do that.

What is your, like your tip or your, or to leave the audience with your

Nicole Fella: final ledge? I wrote something down that I wanted to make sure I didn't forget. Yes. Okay. So, um, as contractors, our job isn't just to build, it's to translate.

Mikki : Mm.

Nicole Fella: So we have to translate what you're saying to us, what we're proposing, what we're doing.

All of that stuff becomes translation. Right. There's, there's different languages. Homeowners are speaking in layman's terms, we're speaking in construction terms. Yeah. It's. A completely different language, [00:56:00] different genre. So, um, we have to, as the contractors, as the builders, we have to provide translations to our clients.

Um, clients need to be able to understand that. Mm-hmm. Right. And so knowing your communication skill. Knowing, um, what communication style you are is part of that. But the, the beauty of the disc is you can then learn, like you can do it with your partner and say, okay, mm-hmm. I'm an I and he's a C and I can figure out is it C or K?

Oh, C, C, right. No, C it trying number. So he's a C so I can communicate this way in order to get him. Now, you're not gonna be able to get your contractor to tell you like, oh yeah, I'm an I and that's the way that I need to receive information.

Mikki : Probably not,

Nicole Fella: they're probably not gonna do that unless

Mikki : Nicole,

Nicole Fella: I'm an I, by the way.

But, but you wanna be able to know how to, how you receive information and how whoever you're talking to best receives [00:57:00] information. So it's, I would encourage you to tell people and be like, you know, I am a learner. I need to know this. This is how I learn best. Right. So, like I said, I need to. Know the why.

Mikki : Yeah,

Nicole Fella: right. I'm doing the research, I'm going through everything. That's how I learn best. Yeah. And so,

Mikki : and how you feel more comfortable.

Nicole Fella: Right. And that's how I communicate. Yeah. But not everybody needs that level of information. Yeah. Some people are just like, just gimme the bullet points. I'm good. Yeah.

And, and I'll move on. So knowing that that's really what's gonna help you, it's just knowing how communicate, knowing how you can receive that information. Yeah. And then as GCs, how we can translate all that into our building.

Mikki : That is wonderful. And a delightful amount of information. I hope you guys found our slightly more regimented podcast platform.

Delightful. Let us know in the comments down below. Also, please go to chicks and construction.com and download our disc personality type survey to help you comm not personality type [00:58:00] communication style survey to help you communicate better with not just your your general contractor, but also maybe your spouse.

Who knows what are, maybe we're saving re relationships over here. What are we doing? We don't know. Um, with do it said do Jess, where can they find us on all the socials?

Jess: So on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram. It's at Chickson Construction Podcast on TikTok. It's at Chickson Construction.

Mikki : So yeah. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in, and we will see you next time.

Bye bye.