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In the second episode of MetaCast, host Dr. Rhanderson Cardoso is joined by Meta-Analysis Academy legends Amanda Godoi, Isabela Marques, and Gabriela Brandão for an engaging discussion about the world of meta-analyses.
Discover what meta-analyses are, why they are crucial for your career, and how you can start your own. Our guests share valuable insights on the time commitment involved and the significant impact meta-analyses can have on networking and professional growth.
Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of this essential research method and learn how it can elevate your academic and professional journey.
Discover what meta-analyses are, why they are crucial for your career, and how you can start your own. Our guests share valuable insights on the time commitment involved and the significant impact meta-analyses can have on networking and professional growth.
Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of this essential research method and learn how it can elevate your academic and professional journey.
Creators & Guests
Host
Guest
Guest
Guest
Isabela Marques
BWH / Harvard Postdoc Research Fellow
What is MetaCast?
The PodCast of the Meta-Analysis Academy!
Hello,
everyone.
Welcome to MetaCast,
the podcast of the Meta-Analysis Academy.
My name is Randerson Cardoso,
and I have the honor here of sharing this podcast
with Isabela Marques,
Amanda Godoy,
and Gabriela Brandão.
I'm going to start by asking you to introduce
yourself.
Let's start with Gabriela.
Yeah,
sure.
So,
as Heather said,
my name is Gabriela.
I'm finishing a research fellowship here at the
Israel Deaconess Medical Center
in pancreatic surgery and about to start my
residency in general surgery at the same
institution.
And in the Meta-Analysis Academy,
I'm one of the mentors.
So,
I do mentoring one-on-one with the students about
meta-analysis,
of course.
It's a pleasure.
Thanks for joining,
Gabriela.
Amanda?
Hello,
everyone.
My name is Amanda.
I am from Brazil,
and I'm currently a fourth-year medical student in
the UK in Wales,
Cardiff University.
Hi,
everyone.
My name is Isabela Marques.
I am a physician,
graduated in Spain.
I am originally from Brazil,
but I've been a little bit everywhere,
Spain,
Germany,
and now here.
Now,
I am a postdoc research fellow at one of the
Harvard-affiliated hospitals,
even though the Meta-Analysis Academy has no
affiliation with any of the institutions that we
mentioned.
And I have just started eight months ago.
It's been eight months already that I'm here in
Boston working with research for a job,
for a living.
And my name is Anderson Cardoso.
As I said,
I'm a cardiologist.
I'm a cardiologist here in Boston in the United
States.
I currently work at Harvard Medical School.
As Isabela said,
this podcast,
the Meta-Analysis Academy,
is not affiliated with any of the institutions
where we work.
I want to start this podcast by explaining what is
the Meta-Analysis Academy.
We have a very high-level training program that
enables our students to do systematic reviews and
meta-analysis.
We teach the right methods,
the statistics,
the writing,
so that you're able to do systematic reviews and
meta-analysis with autonomy.
I want to make it very clear that we do not do
the publications for our students.
We do not guarantee publications.
You will hear all about the incredible work that
these doctors,
medical students have done in our program.
But it is their work.
It is the results of their hard work and their
dedication.
The Meta-Analysis Academy will give you the support
and the methods to get there.
And speaking of results,
let's start with that.
All of you have taken the Meta-Analysis Academy
within the last one to two years.
Can you tell me your results?
Let's start with Isabela,
queen of the Meta-Analysis Academy.
Chosen one.
I hold the title of the first student who
published a Meta-Analysis as first author in the
entire cohort of students.
That was two years ago or something like that.
Two years ago and 700 publications ago of our
students.
Go ahead.
That's a lot,
guys.
That's amazing.
Ever since.
So in this two years?
When I started,
I was a fifth year medical student in Spain,
didn't know anything about research.
And now,
two years later,
I have 11 Meta-Analysis published as full papers
published and indexed in PubMed and approximately
something like 40 abstracts presented in
international conferences.
Something like this.
Congratulations.
Who would have thought?
Amanda?
Well,
I think the issue that we were speaking about
before is that I should have counted before I came
here.
It's a common theme that you do lose count when
you start the Meta-Analysis Academy.
What I can say is that I have at least 10
publications published on PubMed.
And I also have at least 25 abstracts,
I would say,
with more than five oral presentations as well as
international conferences.
And I was just finishing my first year of medical
school when I started.
So it's been incredible.
Congratulations,
Amanda.
Thanks.
Thank you.
wouldn't say my number is true but with the caveat
that I started doing this 10 years ago
so I have 80 publications right now about 1,500 1
,700 citations more than 300 abstracts presented
in conferences but if you consider the number of
years that I've been doing this all of you have
done more than me in the years that you've been
doing this so Gabriela how about your results
yeah sure for me it was easy to take track
because I just applied for residency so in my
ERAS application I had 18 PubMed index publications
and seven of them were
meta-analysis so that's a very powerful tool for
engineering your CV so I and it resulted
on the successful application for residency and here
I am congratulations and we're gonna
we're gonna jump right into that because one of
the key messages that we share in the Meta
-Analysis
Academy is that it's not
just about publications it's about how it will
impact your career and I can think of no better
example than your amazing results so tell everyone
please about you know your spectacular match
not only a publication was not only useful as to
show how I can perform and make a project from
the scratch to the end to show how can I finish
a project but I also took that as
a very useful tool to make connections and I think
for residency application that's key like the
networking we do with that and and so a lot of
those publications especially meta-analysis I could
make the networking throughout the project so I
could ask for senior authors and they were in
different institutions at the time of the
application I could reach out to them I and ask
for help ask for some recommendations and that was
totally key.
for me so I think that speaks more even more
about the power of it so publications the
networking and
what's the result tell them about your match yeah
I so I was approved for a categorical general
surgery program at the Harvard institution so it's
a very it's mind-blowing yeah it's mind-blowing
it's the dream if there was anything that could
have been more perfect is that you know is that
kind of match yeah I mean many of you guys know
about the importance and the difficulty of getting
a general surgery categorical match let alone at
Harvard Medical School and Gabriela accomplished
all of that I'm under tell us about how Meta
analysis your publications that you mentioned
how they have helped your career still in medical
school I mean that's a loaded question I would say
because I don't remember the amount that before she
started the Meta knowledge Academy I've groomed
so much professionally in knowledge and in practice
I've grown so much professionally in knowledge and
in opportunities that have been provided to me I
remember that I've always been a very dedicated
student I was very hard working and I would ask
for opportunities but we were talking about this
earlier it's very easy to ask for opportunities is
very easy let's say to be hard working but people
don't care if you're hard working they don't really
care if you're just trying to get there or
even they ma what matters is the results there is
a saying that I really like that there's nothing
more useless than just a merely in well-informed
man and I think I really learned this when
publishing Meta analysis when I started getting my
publications my results that's when people
starting reaching out to me opportunities started
just appearing and doors started opening in my
career
so from just a medical student who would look for
opportunities try to publish try to get involved
in research now I present at international
conferences I have my name on PubMed I have
emails from journals inviting me to review their
paper and I participate in primary research a
really high impact primary research even though I
haven't even finished medical school and it's a
scary thought to think that next year I will
graduate and what is out there for me but I'm
I'm it makes me more confident that I've
built a track record with metanalysis that hopefully
will get me somewhere that is has
a high level of impact for my future career as
well well it's the hard work that pays off right
because the hard work of course is important but
it's it's it's important it's also critical to
have the results so we're going to talk more about
that about the differences of putting
in hard work and other types of research and Meta
analysis Isabella what kind of opportunities have
have you had through your publications in your
career well i'll start saying that it's funny how
stories repeat themselves all over so amanda studied
in wales in gales gales in portuguese
in wales and i was studying in spain guys and you
might think wow is this limited to my country like
why is it so hard doing research here it's so
funny how it seems to be like that everywhere
right because i also same as amanda said i don't
remember isabella before and i would try so hard
to get opportunities so hard it's not like i was
sitting and waiting for opportunities to come
i would really try and the amount of no's that i
got only lose to the amount of no responses that
and then after i published my first meta-analysis
after i finished the course
i started getting like same thing invitations from
the dean of my university from professors being
like wow isabella you're a student you have you
know how to make meta-analysis and i'm like yes i
know i was still i i'm the same that i was
six months ago but somehow now you notice me but
at the same time i have to admit i'm not the
same
because now i have something like to bring to the
table and that has really been kind of like
the mindset that allowed me to dream bigger and to
be here now as a postdoc research fellow
in boston who would have thought the same thing
it's pretty incredible um let me explain to you
guys briefly what a meta-analysis is many of you
may know but it's i think it's important to
highlight this a meta-analysis is the is putting
together statistically quantitatively the results
of studies that are similar to each other so if
you have a study that was done in spain in the
united kingdom in brazil in the united states if
you have these different studies and
they were similar to each other those authors
analyzed them independently of course and
published them but then as meta-analysis authors
what we do is we have the idea we do the right
methods for identifying those studies and then we
put them together statistically that's a
meta-analysis let's talk a little bit about the
advantages of this particular research method
and i'll start with this my favorite one is
autonomy it's just the fact that no matter
where you are you know um and in the world of
research you're not going to be able to
analyze the whole world the entire world we just
had a colleague here with us who is from a small
city very small city in the countryside of brazil
we have students from india from everywhere in the
world who don't otherwise have access to research
and the meta-analysis gives them autonomy amanda
can you tell like expand on that a little bit you
know how is it that people how is it that i'm
saying that people from anywhere in the world if
they understand the right method of course and
they have a computer and internet access they can
do a meta-analysis great around this and uh thank
you for that
that comment because autonomy many people confuse it
with just doing it by yourself true whereas
when we speak about autonomy in meta-analysis it's
not that you're just conducting a meta-analysis
alone actually joining a community of well-minded
like-minded individuals in the meta-analysis
academy for example that's what makes it powerful
that's where what takes you to the end but when
we say autonomy is that you know how to conduct
it every step of the way you probably if you have
any knowledge of research methods out there
listening to us you probably know that every
step of research should be checked by at least two
people so of course you're not going to be
conducting a meta-analysis by yourself but instead
of being that student that you're emailing people
asking for opportunities you know the method and
actually you can put together your research team
because you know how to conduct it and probably
the people that are
with you know the methods and actually you can put
together your research team because you know
you also do it creates autonomy in the sense that
you can you're able to take it to the end
you don't depend on well money that's a big one
you don't depend on an ethics committee to approve
your research which takes a lot a long time guys
if you if you don't know maybe primary research
research takes at least more than a year to
conduct to publish that's another another story
and meta-analysis can be done as quickly as would
say five weeks you know from having the idea to
publishing can be discussed yeah you you mentioned
a lot there and we talked about the autonomy just
how quick it is the fact that you don't depend on
an ethics committee and you mentioned about doing
it in a group and um i want to ask gabriella
this question because i know you have a spectacular
group with you know bruno
and patricia you know and so many other people you
know sergio and other other great minds from
the meta-analysis academy so tell us a little bit
about um if you knew all of them before if you
met
them in the meta-analysis academy what it's been
like to work in this research group how many
publications you guys have i see one every week
now tell us a little bit about that every month
i think there is a publication coming from that
group and i think that's so value like when you
have a very hard
working group
and everyone shares with different responsibilities
the work just flows
right so we can share uh different steps of the
the process together and have those results
i met some of them before and then i brought them
to the team because i knew how like hard
working they were and that it would like add to
the group but some of them i met on the way
because we find ourselves when we have this goal
right we are
looking for surgery we have the same path along
the way and we are all hard-working which is
and you're part of the meta-analysis academy yeah
so we find ourselves there with the same goal and
that's the best way to find your group like you're
going for the same way and we have so many
examples
of this in meta-analysis academy even isabella she
she when she started in the meta-analysis academy
she joined an incredible research group that up to
this day has incredible work together we like
i actually don't know how to explain it i don't
understand how to explain it but i think it's an
have i love to share this because i have all the
possibilities of groups that you can form to make
a meta-analysis i have worked with all of them
and they all gave incredible results i have worked
and
this is such a coincidence i have worked with
amanda before i've worked with gabby before
i have in complete different areas like with amanda
in endocrinology with gabby that's actually
funny because gabby was the one that solved the
problem with statistics so the thing is guys um
in the meta-analysis academy we learn how to make
every step of the way right so we learn how to
do
our own statistics and all that and we had a very
like hard to overcome obstacle in one of our ideas
and surprisingly gabby was the one one in the
group of the community that knew how to do that
and we were like hey hi gabby are you interested
in joining helping us and you know join the
publication she saved our lives and now it's
published
and it's already has like it already has like two
citations or something this paper that we have
together and with amanda the same we put together
i knew two people that had the same idea of
meta-analysis because that's also one thing that we
learn in the course like how to have your own
ideas right and it's funny because when we teach
the methods people start start getting the same
ideas because you know they're good ideas they are
viable let's talk about the ideas uh sorry
gabriella just a little second let's talk about
developing ideas
you've published in pediatrics and infectious disease
and cardiology and you're not a specialist
yet you've published anesthesiology one of those
published in endocrinology and surgery and others
not a not a specialist in those areas yet
gabriella published a ton in surgery will start
residency now tell us a little bit about how you
developed these ideas for your projects many of
which you were first authors in yeah i think for
me at least i i went uh after the topics i
liked and i think one really cool thing about meta
-analysis you can go for the latest of the uh
like new projects out there and put all the
together and create like a masterpiece so you can
uh publish a very late like trendy topic uh it's
still trending and that's that's cool so i went
after those uh topics but i know there's a lot of
other ways of course yeah we have a class one of
meta-analysis academy
that teaches this method that gabriella just
mentioned of looking at recent clinical trials
recent studies to develop your own ideas and how
about you amanda i really like the method as well
of the randomized trials i i get randomized trials
on my in my inbox on my email every day
every day with viable ideas and i think you become
so effective at looking at new ideas that you just
don't have the time to pursue it all so i do
have a lot of people that i help in
the academy in the community that i say like
listen i i found this viable idea i just do not
have the time because i have so many other meta
-analysis projects going on would you take it
forward and uh i've had two that have taken to
the end and had it published and i think that's
the good thing that we kind of touched upon the
community aspect of it when you if you already
know the word of academia it can be quite
competitive it can be quite frustrating at
times because the collaboration might not be exact
and it can be quite frustrating at times because
the
collaboration might not be exactly as you expected
and i think the difference in the
meta-analysis academy is that we end up helping
each other not only with the ideas but with the
process with the research and i think for me at
least that's the value of the collaboration
aspect we grow together not alone but coming back
to the ideas aspect of it besides randomized
trials when i started meta-analysis academy i was
very early on in my clinical years so
one topic that we that we always have is bedside
on the bedside looking at patients and i i thought
that this wasn't a viable way for me to get ideas
because i thought i have no clinical experience but
again when you know about how to conduct
meta-analysis when you when you know about the
process it only takes one moment it only takes
one conversation maybe when you're doing ward rounds
with a doctor to start an idea and that
was that was one of the ideas that i that i
started as well in surgery in fact
with a kidney transplantation that we we got an
idea on the bedside and i think it is a very
effective way as well because you're seeing it
right there and then the problem of the clinical
doubt should we should we use this method or
should it should we do a more conservative so
we was comparing more surgical managed conservative
management and i think it can be a really good
method as well so i like that one that's a good
one i've actually so i think i've used all of our
nine ten methods of getting ideas that she was
just referring to the meta-analysis academy nine
to ten methods exactly last one we have some
methods that are very straightforward to kind
of like switch the key in your brain to actively
look for ideas and that's so true what amanda
was commenting i feel like um we go year after
year in med school or medical training and in
the beginning one of the methods that i liked the
most was the go on the gas
website as well i love checking latest publications
at jama at um now jack imaging and all these to
look for for ideas like this super hot topics
there are latest published clinical trials and
all that that really like that one but i will
admit that one of my favorites is actually checking
guidelines so there's also this crazy crazy
brilliant idea that is looking for kind of
inconsistencies in guidelines from big societies and
they were
literally mentioned to your face like hey this is
something we don't really have clear
um we have this evidence but it's kind of lacking
one of my favorites you're giving away every time
works every time i'm not kidding well i mean she's
taught me about them but how to actually
perform and get these ideas i guess they can learn
it you can you can discover in the course so i
want to talk about a subject here on how meta
-analysis can be either a gateway for people
to start research or complementary in
in the research portfolio so for example in my own
career i was a first year resident at the
university of miami i needed to publish to get
into cardiology fellowship and i had zero experience
i
did not have any pubmed publications yet and i
learned how to do this and it took my career took
off you know in three years or four years of
residency because i was also chief i published
20 papers this really helped me to match into a
really competitive program at johns hopkins
and now i participate in clinical trials and i do
all these things but meta-analysis was the
first publication that's how i started i think for
isabella chu but gabriella you mentioned the 18
or 19 publications seven are meta-analysis so
clearly you've done a lot of other things that
are not meta-analysis you did a research fellow
here so tell us a little bit about how even
though
you you have research experience otherwise meta
-analysis contributed to your portfolio
and to your career sure and i think uh you can
have this as one of your tools for uh be a
better
researcher and for me it was interesting because i
had a lot of publications before like
considerably but not all of them or the least of
them were surgery focused or barely touched the
surgery topic and i was missing like a real like
clinical surgery patient uh research on my cv
like to show more interest that was not like that
i was into it into the surgical techniques
i was ready for it so that was the first um uh
appealing of the meta-analysis for me but later
uh even already having some meta-analysis published
i came for a research fellow and to do a primary
research it takes a long time and i had five
months to apply when i came so i thought i would
take my my box again and i will use the meta
-analysis tool and that's when i uh used my my
first publication
here and the research fellow was a systematic
review because that would be quick that would
be useful i could present a conference which i
would do the networking for residency so it was
very useful for me on that way and you can
impress your mentors right i'm sure people
were impressed about this three weeks yeah this new
research fellow who just joined you know she
doesn't even know where the bathroom is yet and
she's already published yeah she last in a month
yeah that's incredible congratulations and let's talk
more about time just about how long
it takes you know you said oh you can easily do
it in five months which is the time that you had
before your application uh she was able to do it
in five months and she's already published
your application uh isabella you are author of the
first publication of the meta-analysis
academy i remember that was almost two years ago
now you joined the course how long did it
take you to do that one and then others that
followed so that one doesn't count for time-wise
because i was still taking the course so i would
learn a new topic every week and i had to wait
until i would learn that
new topic to apply that in my idea um so that
one i think i had this idea around week four
of the course and by week 10 he was pretty much
ready for submission but that does count it's
super fast that's six weeks that's incredible
afterwards not kidding you guys i i think that
that summer break uh my friends and i so one of
i mentioned before how many groups i was able to
form inside the community one of the best ones i
keep in my heart i think all of them are the
best
ones i keep them all in my heart but the reason
why i joined the med academy that was one of my
best friends that insisted so much that i would
join her so we would do research together and i
was like okay bella her name is also so bella
like bella you won okay we're joining together
and then
that summer break we found one idea we checked it
was viable we're like we don't have anything to
do it's way too hot in barcelona i don't want to
go out i think we finished that analysis in like
two weeks that's amazing two weeks and we were
four in the group so it's not like we have you
know 20 people working it's four of us internet
connection and that was it a lot of hard work
you know the two weeks is is obviously very fast
but i would say that our students
generally complete a meta-analysis on average
probably around five weeks once you've learned
the method of course if if you're really good at
it and you have experience you could do it even
faster like isabella if it also depends on how
much time you have on your hand like if you're
on a summer break depends on the number of studies
so there are a lot of variables in the process
but
you can do it super fast amanda tell us a little
bit why it's so fast what uh how come a clinical
trial takes so much longer even a cohort study
takes so much longer and you're not able to do it
so much longer in a meta-analysis you can just do
it that fast definitely well what we're saying
here is definitely not taking the value of primary
research they are very important and we use them
in our meta-analysis of course but i think it's
getting the idea and getting it approved by an
ethics committee it takes a long time it might
take a few months in there for approval for
changes that you have to make in the protocol and
then actually starting the trial or the
observational study
and it can take a long time for recruitment for
analysis of data then gathering that data
collecting writing the manuscript so it can take a
couple years until you publish whereas
meta-analysis all the data is in there in the
literature you just need a good idea your computer
a good group right and that comes with the
autonomy and the community and there you go
you you just need to put it together you just
need to know an effective
method that we teach in the meta-analysis academy
so it's those two components is the fact that you
don't need to go to the ethics committee or build
a long protocol and then the data is already
already
available that's it you summarized it beautifully
yeah and then we can do it quickly exactly and i
think that that's what makes it so powerful because
you don't need especially when the
topic is very hot and there are some really new
trials like gabby said of oh you get uh the
notification of a new trial came out and then you
realize that you don't need to go to the ethics
in the introduction they say oh these trials have
also come out and they talk about conflicting
results that might be a good idea for the meta
-analysis and you just need to get started
a good example is one of our colleagues she is a
resident in endocrinology from brazil and she's
presenting now at one of the conferences that is
happening here in boston and she had a great idea
on a very hot topic and she just had just entered
the meta-analysis academy and ranerson who was
really good friends with her
said we're gonna help you don't worry don't you
worry so she helped her to get in touch with me
and other colleagues and in the group we really
really sped up the meta-analysis the data was
already there it was a hot topic so i think
that's the power of meta-analysis you can have a
good
impact in the literature summarizing data increasing
the power of those analysis we can
touch a little bit on power on another another
another time but i think that's the the beauty
of the method i think that
the sooner you do the more these ideas get
published the more the things get published
you end up sharing data in a certain way you know
so she could build their user experience
in a way or even不行 those techniques that they want
to see it become clever so
with someone else who's working for us who knew
just how to understand what they were feeling
what their goals were what their objectives were
and so we kind of super sparked that and let's
cuz
come on
okay
days.
It's a journey,
it's a journey,
and it's definitely worth the effort,
of course.
Guys,
let's talk about a contentious topic here,
which is the value of a research fellow in
residency United States application,
in application for residency in the United States.
Controversial.
Yeah,
controversial.
It depends on multiple factors,
but I know many of you are specialists in this
topic here.
Let's start with Gabriela.
Gabriela,
you did it both.
You did research fellowship,
you did a bunch of meta-analysis and publications.
You got a great match.
Tell us about doing a research fellow,
yes or no,
for the people who are listening and interested in
residency in the United States.
The answer depends.
There's no right or wrong answer,
of course.
But I would say,
I think the main factor is how competitive is the
residency you're looking for.
If it's a very competitive specialty,
as probably the surgical ones,
or if it's a very competitive specialty,
dermatology,
ophthalmology,
et cetera,
you're probably going to need it.
And it's not only for the publications.
It's more about the networking and the contacts you
made.
But during the year,
you have to show your capacity,
your hard work,
your results.
And with results,
we mean publications,
right?
So I think people that are going for a very
competitive specialty,
they're going to need it.
And if you're going to need it,
you're either institution or specialty might consider
a research fellow it's not mandatory of course but
that helps a lot with the networking 100% agree
Isabella a research fellow I also agree with
Gabby there's no there's no easy answer for that
there's no right or wrong I think depends on a
lot
also on how much you're genuinely interested in
research because sometimes and it's it's okay
not saying it's a bad thing it's okay if
publishing is just a means to get where you want
to get maybe you don't necessarily want a super
academic career and you just you know we often
share in the meta-analysis academy social media
this one chart that is like the average number
of publications reach
specialty for matching here in the united states
and you'll see like seven eight publications
time might be better spent if you just want to
reach that number to be considered for you know
one institution for a strong candidate you might as
well just sit at home for six months
work on six-month analysis and publish that that
will save you time money effort brain cells
many things so if research is just a means for
you to get for example a match that not
necessarily
super academic there's no need if you don't love
it don't like go spend time where you love
spoiler is that sometimes you get in love that's
not true yeah i think that's the point um my
family
even says amanda i used to say five six years ago
that you're never getting to research i never
thought i never thought
you
i think my take on it is then the meta-analysis
exactly exactly and now i want a clinical and
academic career so it's it it is a lot of
changing exactly it's a so then it comes if you
want if
that's what you want and you really are interested
in learning the method learning how research works
like in the background you know these slow slow
trials how that works everything that is involved
you learn a lot of course you learn a lot like i
learn things that i didn't like
like i didn't even didn't even know it existed
until two months ago and now it's my daily work
um but i i love it i love it i love it because
i love research but i think gabby said the key
aspects there are one networking if you want a
competitive specialty that really is game changing
the people you will meet the influential people you
meet you just might as well in one day be
sitting with a program director next to you and
you didn't even know um but again each case is a
case that's not mandatory and you might as well
publish if you're at home wherever you are in the
world it's fine it depends on the person and not
every research fellow is going to be the same
not every research fellow is going to make you
stand out so it really depends you know i
i i have of course i i haven't done a research
on myself yet but i have spoken
to a lot of people that have and i think my kind
of take up today it's it's that there's no point
in doing a research fellow if you just want
publications right you need to get something
more in that year and i know people who had no
publications and came to do a research fellow
here in the states and got disappointed because
they were expecting something that zero publications
i know that also got it to do a research fellow
how the reality of how things were got into the
meta-analysis academy and then started
publishing right so i think about if it's about
publications you know you might be best spending
your time in meta-analysis for example but if you
have the interest if you want to connect with
people i definitely think that it does have value
and if you mix both then yeah that's my toolbox
and
so let me give the one minute summary of this
which i fully agree with everything that you said
First of all,
if the specialty is super competitive,
you absolutely should consider doing it.
It's likely to be almost mandatory for some
specialties.
Number two,
if there's a genuine strong interest in learning
research,
you should also consider it.
Now,
number three,
it's not mandatory by any means.
And if you decide to do it,
first of all,
get publications before you apply.
You're going to become a stronger applicant.
Multiple of our students from the Meta-Analysis
Academy have used their publications,
should then apply to a strong research fellowship
like Isabella Marquez,
for example.
But if you decide to do it for the sake of
having publications for an application,
be conscious of two important points.
Number one,
by no means are publications and networking
guaranteed.
Don't put all your tokens,
all your hopes in the research.
Don't put all your hopes in the research fellowship
because a number of things could go wrong.
Obviously,
we hope that if everything works out,
but you can go to a place and your mentor moves.
Your mentor doesn't help you.
It's not supportive.
You know,
the institution is going through some problems.
So there's a number of reasons why it may not
work out.
And if the metric is publications that you're
looking for and it's an important metric,
join the Meta-Analysis Academy or,
you know,
figure it out independently.
Don't put all your hopes in that and then forget
to do everything else.
And then the number two.
The second point I want to highlight that people
often forget is the value of time.
You know,
when we're young and thinking about a career that's
going to last 40 years,
you know,
we don't generally think about the value of one or
two years to get us to the next step,
which is generally a competitive residency.
And that's fine.
But let me say that from a person who did nine
years of residency and fellowship in the United
States,
these years will add up.
Essentially,
if you're doing a research fellowship when you
don't have to or you don't have a strong interest.
You're doing it just for the sake of doing it,
you're paying a high price,
which is changing or trading one future year of
being an attendee,
of having an attending income salary for a research
fellow right now.
And that has financial implications.
It's going to extend the number of years in
training.
And it might not be an issue now,
but,
you know,
send me a message when you're seventh year into
residency and fellowship and,
you know,
you understand what I'm saying.
So balance these things.
And if you decide to do it,
do it complementary to the publications,
like the beautiful example here of Gabriela Brandom.
But I will actually take a chance to comment that
I think doing meta-analysis before applying for the
postdoc were essential for my application,
because also,
like,
it's a postdoctoral position.
They kind of expect you to already know more or
less what you're doing.
Of course,
they're hiring you to do research.
They're hiring you to do research.
Yeah,
you're not there to learn.
They don't have the basics of research,
they don't have the time to do that.
They don't expect that from you and they will not
pay you to do that.
So I think I when I applied,
when I got the guts to apply,
actually,
I already had like seven,
eight publications.
That's when I felt like,
oh,
my God,
OK,
someone might actually pay me some attention.
And it was actually great because they did.
My my current boss,
principal investigator,
he did comment on that.
He did say,
wow,
you.
You actually have a lot of publications like it's
a lot more than the average person in your level
of,
you know,
about training and as a last year medical student.
So that was actually the main reason why he
trusted me enough to hire me to do research full
time.
So without that,
I don't like I don't really think there was any
other reason that he would trust me enough with
that.
So even if you want to do a postdoc,
if you want to apply,
maybe Gabby might experience like share her
experience on that.
But I think you also have to bring something to
the table.
So even if you want to apply,
you have to prepare for that and you have to have
publications to show before that.
Yeah,
I think one value of that is kind of when you
show that you are able and capable of going from
the start to the end with a project.
First,
you show how you manage your time,
how you manage your tasks,
but also like a manuscript writing a manuscript.
It doesn't matter much what kind of research and
when you can write it fast,
write it very objectively,
you already know half of the way.
So that applies for every research,
right?
It's the proven result.
You know,
it's not when you're especially if you're a first
author,
you know,
you show that on your CV,
it's done.
Like people know that you know how to do the
work,
that you get it done because lots of people know
about research,
but don't actually get things done.
And it's just.
It makes your application for a research fellowship,
for residency,
for whatever it is in your career.
It's just like totally different if you have
publications,
especially if they're high quality and if you're a
first author.
So we're in Boston right now and the weekend we're
recording this.
Well,
at the time we're recording this,
there's lots of events in the Meta-Analysis Academy
where students are participating.
So in Sao Paulo,
Brazil,
there's one of the largest,
one of the largest cardiology conferences.
We have multiple students presenting here in Boston.
We have endocrine.
In 2024,
you will know better than me,
Amanda,
but I'm sure there are at least 10,
if not 20 people presenting here.
We also have the American Society of Clinical
Oncology with more than 10 students presenting in
Chicago at this time.
And we have the American Transplant Congress in
Philadelphia with my friends there.
Yes.
Lots of friends,
Gabriela's friends presenting Meta-Analysis and
Surgery.
And actually just saw one of them posting it
today.
So let's talk a little bit about this experience
of going to conferences.
And like,
but especially going when you're presenting and
Amanda,
I'm going to ask you,
because you're a veteran at this,
two years in a row of oral presentations at
Endocrine Society,
what's it like,
you know,
to go to these conferences and just like be queen,
you know,
like presenting?
No,
no,
please stop.
But I do have to say that I haven't expected the
amounts of oral presentations that I've had.
I've had it in at least five conferences now.
And it does build,
grow some skin.
So for this one,
of course,
you can never get used to it,
but it does make you a lot more comfortable with
the aspect.
And right now I focus on not only just presenting
and getting it done with,
because I think that on my first presentation,
that's how it was.
I was so scared.
I just want to get it over with.
I'm so nervous.
Right now,
I'm focusing on how can I communicate my research
because oral presentations do bring visibility to
the topic that you're talking about,
to the research that you're presenting.
And also,
I think the most interesting thing is the comments
that you get after your presentation and the
invitations that you also get.
I know some people,
even after oral presentations,
got invitations from journals to high impact
journals like Lancet.
So with my experience with oral presentations,
of course,
manuscripts and getting publications on PubMed are
completely priority,
but conferences are great for networking.
And when you network.
I think that's when things really,
really trigger for the success in your career and
the progression,
because I think we really depend on connection with
other people.
You find new mentors,
you find new inspirations,
sources of inspiration.
And even in this conference just now,
so just yesterday,
we went to a talk,
me and Larissa,
who is the other second year medical student who
presented six,
six abstracts in this conference.
For the second time.
She was here last year as well,
as a first year medical student.
She is incredible.
She is incredible.
She is incredible.
We both went to this talk and we had,
we were listening to professionals that we had met
last year,
very high impact.
And we went to have a chat with them afterwards.
And one of them recognized my name from a paper
that I had published.
And they took a picture,
they tweeted about it.
They put the paper in there as well.
Loved reading your work.
And we got even more people commenting on it and
a track on.
We have a lot of people on med Twitter.
If you don't know about it,
please do get involved because it is powerful.
And I think that's the beauty of it.
Even Larissa,
as we were speaking,
people are just so shocked how she's a second year
medical student presenting at one of the largest
conferences in the world for endocrinology.
So I think that's the benefit of all presentations,
posters,
presentations and conferences.
And it is something that meta-analysis really,
really add.
I recently went even to.
One of the cities in the UK and imposter syndrome
is a thing for everyone,
everyone,
and I submitted this research that,
oh,
it had been on the process that we were
conducting,
it had been published and I was just so
disappointed by it and thankfully with the methods
that we learned in the meta-analysis academy,
I was able to change it a little bit and now we
submit it for publications with some changes,
but I submitted the abstract and it got a normal
presentation.
I got to the conference and I did not know that
I was in the session for the.
The five presentations that were for a prize.
Wow.
Um,
and I had some colleagues there that are doing
primary research with me and they said,
Amanda,
you are,
you know,
you're against X person who is a PhD,
who publishes so much on surgery.
And I'm like,
it's okay.
I'm here for the experience.
I went up there on the stage and,
um,
I was,
I wasn't nervous before because I wasn't expecting
much because for me,
it was a disappointment that my research had been
published.
Yeah.
I had to change it.
I went there,
got really nervous beforehand and presented.
And guess what?
The one,
one prize,
the most prestigious prize of the organization
that's given to one abstract in the whole
conference was awarded to our paper.
No way.
Yeah.
How are we only finding out about this?
She got used to it guys.
She doesn't leave it common anymore when she gets
a prize on meta-analysis.
No,
but I think that,
I think that's,
you know,
I just never thought that I could be in that
situation.
Wow.
So because of meta-analysis,
people,
it brings you visibility.
In a world so valued.
Yeah.
And I,
I even,
I got back to my seat after presenting thinking,
okay,
now it's gone.
I've presented among incredible people.
I'm going to go away now.
And as I was leaving through the door,
because I had to catch my train to go back to
the city that I'm from,
um,
I hear my name on the stage and I'm like,
I don't care if I missed the train right now,
I'm going to go get off.
Of course.
So,
oh my God.
Yeah.
I think it's,
it's incredible.
These conferences as well.
I think it's a great opportunity.
Again,
things that add to your CV,
stories that you can tell and people that you can
connect with.
I just want to add a quick story to this.
You mentioned when you were saying,
so the,
we had a similar situation in,
um,
Amsterdam,
Netherlands,
European society of cardiology,
2023 last year.
And one of our students,
uh,
Mariana presented an oral presentation as well.
And afterwards,
the associate editor of.
One of the Lancet journals,
uh,
e-clinical medicine,
this,
uh,
this associate editor was in the audience and spoke
with her later on after the presentation saying
that she enjoyed the talk and that she invited
Mariana to submit her paper to this journal.
And it's a high impact journal.
Forget the impact factor now,
but I think it's 14.
I could be mistaken.
Uh,
it's again,
it's one of the Lancet journals from the family
Lancet and Mariana did,
you know,
if not such high hopes,
but she submitted it,
they requested.
Revisions are,
and,
uh,
the paper was accepted,
you know,
it's a,
it's a great story.
And,
uh,
came from oral presentation as well.
Larissa,
who was just here,
you mentioned also,
she is a second year med student,
and she's in touch with the president of the
Brazilian society of endocrinology who knows her
from the conferences where she's presenting.
So,
you know,
a great stories I could,
I could go on and on,
but I want to ask Gabriela about her experience as
well,
because I've definitely seen you on the podium from
some,
uh,
conference.
I did,
uh,
two,
uh,
following years.
Yeah.
For the podium and the two of them were,
uh,
meta-analysis.
The last one was my application year and was
gorgeous to see.
Visibility.
Yeah.
It was a very,
uh,
big audience and it was a very,
like a controversial topic that I was closing,
uh,
like summarizing what we should do,
like drain or not drain.
Which conference was that?
Uh,
the American College of Surgeons.
So the biggest,
yeah.
Oral presentation.
Oral.
Yeah.
It was very,
uh,
so it was very like a controversial topic.
Everybody was excited.
And then just after the presentation,
like everybody came to ask more about it.
Like,
well,
how do you do or,
uh,
what are the conclusions?
Why are we going with that?
What do you agree or not?
So we became the reference.
Yeah.
We came,
we have such a good discussion.
And one of,
one of the discussion was with one,
uh,
associate program director,
which I was interviewed later.
So he was.
It was even more special.
It was awesome.
Yeah.
No,
that's fantastic.
And so to me,
I'll just add like is crazy,
Gabby saying how she really closed a gap in
literature.
And that is so like,
that is such an amazing aspect of meta analysis.
And just one of these days I was checking the
social media meta analysis Academy social media and
saw a Med student that was cited on an
international guideline for something.
And it's like,
God,
these people are getting cited by guideline.
Yeah.
solving the problems that are there,
like,
oh,
we're lacking this information,
like we don't know very well,
and one of our students are getting the answer.
The name of the legend is Matheus Gauza.
He's a six-year medical student.
He was cited with his group of co-authors in an
international guideline.
And not just him,
but multiple of our students,
you know,
you get papers like Gabriela's paper.
You know,
if you do a high-quality meta-analysis,
be ready.
It's going to be cited in international guidelines.
That's for sure.
Definitely,
and again,
another thing that brings you visibility and what
separates primary research from meta-analysis,
it's a common theme.
Primary research is very valuable,
but you see the guidelines citing the meta
-analysis.
And I'm sorry,
but if you can bring that into an interview,
your paper being cited by a guideline and you
solving a clinical issue,
I think that's a great conversation starter and a
great contributor
to convincing that person that,
yes,
you do have a problem.
You do have value because you speak a lot about
this,
about how mentorship works.
Many people are not bringing value to the table,
and I think that's what's missing,
and meta-analysis definitely do that.
Yeah,
it's one of the ways,
you know,
certainly whenever you are,
whether it's in a research fellowship or in any
other situation
where you're a mentee and you have a mentor,
you really need to show your value.
There's no doubt about that.
So we're coming to a wrap here.
I want to give you all,
the opportunity to do some final considerations,
and I'm going to start with Isabella.
No pressure.
Just my final consideration is,
wow,
it was a good talk.
Like,
so many things that I have to wrap up now,
but I think I'll just go to the most basic aspect
that we started this talk
saying how much we and Amanda,
we don't even remember the pre-meta-analysis
academy,
Isabella and Amanda,
and that's because so many things,
things changed and achievements that I would never
have expected,
doors that were open that I could never imagine.
And I think the value of getting into the
community
and learning how to do this yourself with autonomy,
with your power of controlling the time of that is
you're able
to dream so much bigger than you initially
expected.
And that's just it.
Sometimes we just get so focused,
focused in the,
like,
rushing process.
I'm doing it with everything,
just getting this one path that everyone tells you
just do this and it will work out.
Then you come a little bit out of the curve.
You learn something new and it opens a whole new
world.
And I think that's really what meta-analysis
changed in my life.
And yeah,
I just have to be grateful here,
meeting all these amazing people that I have been
working with together for like two years.
And it's a community everywhere.
It's amazing.
Yeah,
I love this community.
And it's a really hard thing to summarize.
all of our experiences all the amazing people that
we have met and all the the the network that we
have built over the years into just the summary so
i'm really glad that we're starting this this
new series of talks that we're going to be
discussing so much about meta-analysis but if i
can summarize in three things i get so many
questions about potential students that want
to enroll in meta-academy in meta-analysis academy
um is it a secret formula is it just a magic
recipe and definitely definitely it's very powerful
definitely feels magical but it's not
and i often bring three things to them first the
effective method and you're definitely going to
get that in the meta-analysis academy you're
definitely going to know to how to create autonomy
how to know every step of the way we'll guide you
with that you saw in bella's example how she was
able to take it after the course finished a week
after she submitted for publication so that's one
thing that i'm going to share with you today and
i'm going to share with you guys a little bit
a really powerful method that meta-analysis provide
as you have seen through today the second one is
the mindset we have been speaking here about hard
work dedication and that's definitely not different
with meta-analysis you're gonna have to put the
effort in but the difference is that the effort
that you're putting in definitely bears fruit it
definitely counts and you're gonna get a lot from
it and the third one which bella touched upon is
the community and we are all i believe so
happy to be part of it of the second family of
the second family of the second family of the
second
family that has a lot of collaboration and when
you connect with like-minded individuals that have
this growth mindset then you're sorted so if you
have any interest in those three things because
they have to be together by by the dream that
meta-academy provides because it's is a really
good one and you're gonna go very far so i think
that's my little bit of a summary i have to say
that the matter uh really opens the like open the
door for me to be a part of it and i think
that's
it's not like all of you know kind of all of
this like open doors but what really matters in
the
academy is definitely the people and in the people
for some reasons i think uh networking is one of
them you can networking among the other mentees and
the other students attendings even like we
have brilliant people in the community uh but also
like uh consonant analysis research is be is
becoming a more competitive like it's very we have
to publish fast the methods it came out on the
be complex and some topics and we have experts for
every single step of the way like yourself
no not like myself but there are some people that
are really in the statistics very complex
models and we have we have them all together uh
helping each other and i think that's priceless
really yeah no thank you so much and
congratulations to all of you i'm going to actually
take three
closing points here i'm gonna cheat and not just
just one number one is that i want to emphasize
just how grateful and thankful i am to all the
people who made the meta-analysis academy happen
you know amanda is our director of social media
isabella has been an ambassador has been a tutor
in the program gabriella is a mentor in the
program and so many people that i i wouldn't
have time to mention the great contributions the
support that our students have the community that
was mentioned multiple times it's all credit to the
great people who make it happen a number
Number two,
I want to emphasize the same point that I talked
about in the beginning.
All the results that you've heard from them,
but also from the hundreds of students that have
joined the Meta-Analysis Academy is really the
results of their hard work,
their dedication.
We provide the method.
We do not do publications.
Publications are not guaranteed.
It's up to you and our students to really take
the opportunities,
the method,
and really take that forward and bring it to
publication.
And my final message is for you to join the Meta
-Analysis Academy if you're not a part
yet of this team,
to learn how to conduct high-impact research with
autonomy to transform your career.
That's our mission,
and I hope you will join us.