Dovetail Brewery from Chicago to DC

Welcome to the latest episode of DC Beer, where hosts Michael Stein, Brandy Holder, and Jacob Berg are joined by the illustrious Jenny Pfafflin of Dovetail Brewery! The crew starts the show with a lively discussion of their current libations, offering tantalizing tasting notes and sharing anecdotes about their favorite brews.

As the conversation unfolds, the hosts delve into the exciting news of Dovetail Brewery's expansion to DC, exploring the intricacies of the beer industry and the philosophy behind Dovetail's approach to crafting continental European-style beers. With keen attention to detail and a deliberate rollout strategy, Jenny outlines the intentional and thoughtful introduction of Dovetail's core beers to the DC and Virginia markets.

Amidst the lively banter and infectious enthusiasm, the episode also celebrates Women's History Month, championing Jenny's impressive expertise and accomplishments in the male-dominated realm of beer brewing. Jenny shares her journey in the industry, from her Cicerone certification to her serendipitous encounter with Dovetail Brewery, weaving a captivating narrative of passion and dedication.

The conversation takes an intriguing turn as the discussion shifts to the significance of beer service and the evolution of palates in the craft beer market. Insightful and engaging, Jenny offers a glimpse into the complexity of consumer preferences and the art of creating beers that resonate with diverse tastes.

The hosts leave no stone unturned as they touch upon upcoming events and the vibrant beer culture in the DC metro area, providing listeners with enticing invitations to beer-related festivities. The episode offers a treasure trove of delightful experiences for beer enthusiasts, from brewery anniversaries to beer festivals.

With its blend of informative insights, lively anecdotes, and a palpable sense of community, this episode exemplifies the heart and soul of the vibrant craft beer community, leaving listeners eager to explore the world of Dovetail Brewery and savor the rich tapestry of beers awaiting them.

So grab your favorite craft brew, settle in, and join the DC Beer crew for a delightful and enlightening journey through the fascinating world of craft beer!

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Creators & Guests

Host

Brandy Holder

This southern girl got a late start in the beer world, but with such a bold and intoxicating personality behind the name, booze was destined to be a part of her endeavors.

Host

Jacob Berg

Jake’s beer education began when his dad brought home a 6-pack of Brooklyn Lager in the mid-90s. It was love at first sip.

Host

Mike Stein

Michael Stein is President of Lost Lagers, Washington, DC’s premier beverage research firm. His historic beers have been served at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History and the Polish Ambassador’s residence.

Producer

Richard Fawal

President of DC Beer Media LLC and Publisher of DCBeer.com and The DC Beer Show

What is The DC Beer Show?

The official podcast of DCBeer.com! Everything you need to know about the people, places, and brews that make the DMV America’s best beer scene, including the best local places for eats, brews, trivia, live music, and more! Learn about the latest trends in craft beer – from the beers, to the breweries, to the business – from the editors of DC Beer.

Welcome, everyone, to DC Beer Show. We are at DC

Beer across social media. Mike

Stein, what are you drinking tonight? I am having Live

Oaks Grzewski Pivo,

a Polish style 100% smoked

wheat beer. It's a wonderful beer, 3%. I

got it at the brew shop. Shout out to Beth and Julie.

The brew shop in Arlington also recently just got cans of

dovetail, and we're gonna talk more about that later. But, Jake, what

are you drinking? I am drinking the end of

an era. It is a Soul Mega Worldwide

Pale Ale contract brewed in Upper Marlboro,

Maryland at the now-closed Calvert Brewing

Company. Elliot Johnson, sole mega proprietor,

is going to move over and contract brews

worldwide as well as rhythm and beauty, dark lager,

at DC's very own DC Brau. And

so curious to see how that goes,

but, you know, a nice 60-degree day calls for

just, you know, a classic easy drink in American pale

ale. It's got, like, a little bit of that juice, you know,

juicy hops to it, but it's not hazy. You got a nice little bit of

malt, gives you that biscuity toasty bread stuff.

So good times. Yeah. Mike, so you've already mentioned

Dovetail and Live Oak. Have you seen Notch

cans around at all? Or do we think that

Notch was a one off over at Shelter? I

have not seen Notch cans around

town. I was in touch with Notch, and I do

believe that they had only sent kegs.

So when I last talked to,

Julady Pena, the brewer up a notch, it was Alt Bier

day in Brighton. Bless

them and their all beer day. And so they had just sent

draft out. So the question is, will we get cans?

Unclear at the moment. It may just be

kegs for now. And, you know, like, we are

blessed with abundance of beer here. I'd be a little sad if we didn't

get cans because then that meant that I can't drink it at

home, but we've got Dovetail. We've got Live

Oak. We've got Port Cities, excellent lagers. The

Italian Pills, if it's still available, you all should

definitely go get it. Could be cans only at the brewery.

Yep. Il Palio, the Italian style Pilsner from Port

City. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Adam Reza and Bill

Butcher of Port City and there'll be an article forthcoming on that because we have

not one Italian pilsner but we have 2 with Right

Proper recently releasing theirs. Jake, you have

a can for me. Supercarina, what was your take on the Right Proper Italian style

pilsner? So the Right Proper one,

soft and a little like, the, the Port City one has this sort

of a soft roundness to it. And so

we've been seeing more West Coast pills around

and New Zealand pills, and a lot of that really just depends on the

hops that you use with a Pilsner based beer

and lager yeast. And I think this Supercarina

probably fits more in line with those.

I know that Tipo pills and the Italian pills

hasn't been around all that long, but I would

describe port cities as a little more rustic and old

school and traditional, and Right Proper's as a little

more modern and new school, sort of keeping with

people's hoppier palates.

Drinking them both side by side is absolutely fascinating. It's just

kinda cool to see this style take off here too.

Yes. I can't wait to do the Pepsi challenge. Should I blindfold

myself before I do it? It will be very obvious to

you which is which. One is very much more

in the tradition of raised by wolves. And I think to me,

that's the giveaway, But it's super cool to have these beers

come in, you know, under 5, 5 a half percent that are

identifiably lagers and then sort of play with that a

little bit within the parameters. Oh, woah. This is a

Pilsner. What can we do in terms of the hopping and

treat it as such? Absolutely. Well, what

other news has come your way? I do wanna shout

out a couple events this weekend. Main one is it

is the 5th anniversary over at Red Bear, and they're gonna throw

a Friday, Saturday, Sunday party. It's gonna

include a 5-Hop IPA, drag shows, all the cool

things that we'd come to expect from Red Bear, and, of

course, peak bloom, their cherry blossom beer will be there.

We'll have more about that over at dcbeer.com soon.

And the the Women's Brew Culture Club is going to invade Baltimore. I

believe they're hitting check Checkerspot on Saturday, and so that's pretty

cool. If you're a dude or dude identifying, then

I would say give the ladies and the nonbinary folks their space, but

you can still come. And then, we could all kind of

join up and have ourselves a little Baltimore party. It's fun to get up there.

And then, of course, Sunday, the bottle share at Red

Bear. Hellbender. Oh, I said Red Bear, didn't I? It's Hellbender. I

had Red Bear on the mind. So 2 to 5, it's open to everybody.

Please RSVP over at dcbeer.com/events.

One reason you should be there is that our friend Jerry over at

Sharer Pints is gracious enough to pick up

the last four bottles of Sam

Smith Stingo in the mid Atlantic as far as I can

tell. And we will certainly pop one of them. And so if you're

curious as to what a stingo is, kind of like

a porter, but also kind of not, You should

come through. I think Beef Space Barbecue will be there. That's

Isaac's spot. You might know him from City Brew Tours. It'll be a good

time. Yeah. So Hellbender DC Beer

Share. While you're on the dcbeer.com website,

click that link to become a supporter on Patreon.

Because for a measly $5 you will get

access to our private DC beer chairs where we will

have not just worldwide renowned stingo from Sam Smiths

brewery in England, but we'll have, dusty bottles, fresh

bottles, things I promise you you have never seen

before. So come support us on Patreon for,

you know, for $5 you gain access to all these private shares,

happy hours, special drink deals. There's a lot going on, so check us

out on Patreon. Well said. That is dcbeer.com

/patreon. We do depend on the support of listeners

like you, viewers like you, readers like you, social

media, peoples like you. Little bit goes a long way, so that's

much appreciated. And, again, $5, you come to a beer

share. You bring some beer. You get some beer. You buy some

beer. It practically pays for itself.

Your support, much appreciated. And we

also wanna call attention to Women in Craft Beverage

Excellence in Industry Panel. This is happening

March 21st. It's goes from 6:30 to

8:30 PM, and it's taking place at other half DC.

There is a number of very talented contributors on the

panel, Jamie Winden, Judy Neff, Crystal Fraley,

doctor j Jackson Beckham, Maureen O' Prey, Amy Burke,

Julie Drews, Jasmine Dill, and Latrice Harris.

Now Latrice was just on the podcast last month, but our very

own Brandy Holder has done a wonderful job of putting this panel

together. It's a wonderful event. You can purchase tickets.

You'll get some food and drink at Other

Half Brewing Company. So that's Thursday, March 21st from

6:30 to 8:30 PM. I've already bought my tickets, so

you will see mister and missus Stein there. Come see us

on March 21st at other half DC. And

a gentle reminder, if you're a DC beer member, you get

a discount on those tickets. Dcbeer.com/patreon.

Again, we have goodies for you. One other

event to mention is the 12th at Lyon

Hall. They did a sold out blackberry dinner,

and they're gonna do 1 women owned on 12th.

So nice sort of middle of the week, pregame

pie day. Should be a good

time. I hear nothing but good things about about the last one. It's very

cool that Alyssa, GM over there is putting this stuff

on. It's nice to have these beer dinner events

back in the area. At one point, that was a cool thing to do that

kind of, like, dwindled during the pandemic and such, but nice to have them

back. Yeah. You know, it seems

that beer dinners are back and they're back in a big way.

Talking to Alyssa at Lyon Hall, it sounds like, the beer

dinner featuring all of the local black owned breweries,

DC proper, Maryland, and Virginia, they sold out and

they had to add seats. That's how well it was doing. So people

are eager to hear directly from the producers and get

more in intel behind the scenes at the beer

dinner. So check out Lyon Hall. Check out, what

Alyssa's doing there. It's definitely solid work with reason to be proud

of. Yeah. And this comes on the heels of Franklin's

under new brewmaster Jeff Hancock doing a series of beer

dinners. We record the show on Tuesday. Those beer dinners are

happening Wednesday, Thursday, which means you're listening to this on Friday.

They already happened, but they'll be bringing them back a little a bit

more again. And Francis is also gonna do a firkin' Friday

more often. So nice to see some real natural ale.

And, occasionally, a lager and a

and a firkin, that'll be a good time as well.

Alright, Mike. We big up Dovetail already. We

have. We have. But who's our guest for this

evening? We have a very special guest coming

to us from Chicago. It's JP.

JP is a brewer at Dovetail. She also

her proper title is marketing and creative manager

slash brewer. So we're putting marketing and creative managing first, then

we're putting, the brewing second. But, JP

is an advanced Cicerone. Outside of

being in the beer world, she's also in the beer and food

world very much so. She's always bringing new

insights to our favorite ancient beverage. She's

responsible for all these interesting events that happen at the

brewery in Chicago. And then she was the reason, we

were so excited and all around town last week

when Dovetail dropped, and she's gonna oversee

Dovetail's excellent care in the DMV.

And she's a fan of brewing in DC. She's been here a

number of times, so she's knowledgeable about the area. JP,

thank you so much for joining us. Can you introduce

yourself to the DC Beer listenership? I am one of

the brewers at Dovetail Brewery, as well as their marketing and creative

manager. I've been with the brewery for

8 years now. I was employee number 1,

outside of the family. And if people aren't familiar

with Dovetail, we are a brewery that

specializes in continental European styles while using traditional

methods. That's a great introduction. I'm wondering since

you've got 8 years under your belt,

with Dovetail, if you can tell us some of your memorable beer

or cider or macchioli moments in the DC

metro area? Obviously, you know, you've had a a wonderful journey,

but you've journeyed to DC proper. And I'm wondering if you tried some of

our local products or had some stuff, you know, maybe

imported stuff, from around the world in DC

proper. Oh, sure. I think one of my

most vivid beer memories of DC proper was I was

there and it was a rainy day. And I was just

solo walking around Georgetown and I walked

up that alley into the Sovereign and,

had a bowl of water zoy. I'm probably

butchering that water zoy, which is just like a Belgian stew, a really

hearty Belgian stew, and, had myself a Belgian

beer. And it was it was just one of those, like,

perfect, just beer drinking moments.

Just like the, you know, the you were cozy, you were warm, you were in

a place that, you know, like people really cared about

the the beer that they were serving and and the food that went

along with it. And, yeah, just it's just when I think

of beer in DC, that's one of the first things I think of.

I've also spent a lot of time, you know, just bopping around. The Church

Key, obviously, very influential. If anyone's familiar with

Chicago, there's a there's a bar here called the Hop Leaf, which was also

very influential to me as I, you know, came through

my professional beer journey. So just going to Church Key and being able to drink

there, and of course, like, the the beers that you get in

BC are sometimes beers that we don't, you know, necessarily get in

Chicago all the time. Of course, there's Right Proper,

which I would like because they sometimes it would do these

really esoteric historical styles, which is right up my

alley. And then Port City Brewing, in Alexandria,

they're, you know, they're also smoked beer

enthusiasts as well. Again, just very like

minded in in the way that we approach beer at dovetail. Well,

we missed you over the weekends and

I, you know, not only enjoyed the beer, but really enjoyed

meeting Dan and Bill. And it just seems like such

a wonderful familial feel to dovetail.

And it seems like that was brought to DC

even just for the short amount time that you guys were here this weekend. And

you guys aren't really anywhere else other than

Chicago and then now DC and Virginia. And

so now that Dovetail has been introduced to the beer drinking

community of DC and Virginia, who may have not been to Dovetail,

I'm curious how much of the Dovetail beer we're going to

get in DC. Like, what kind of, like,

special one off? So our entry into DC and

Virginia was very intentional, and it took 2 years.

Right? It took 2 years of meeting the

right people who got us on the right track with the right

people in DC and Virginia. Yeah. And what I mean by that

is they shared our point of view when it comes to

beer, and most people being, Justin and Allied and his team,

Allied being our distributor. And then, you know, people like,

Greg Engert, who, you know, as you know, like Bluejacket,

Sovereign, Churchkey. I'm sure I'm missing one. And

what is important to me is that that

we stay intentional in the places that we put

our beer. So it is my hope that, you know, this

isn't the last you're gonna see a Dovetail. And I think that happens a lot

with certain brands that come into new markets. Like, they'll do a big

drop, it's a big splash, and then then there's no

connection to beer drinkers in that market. And it's it's important

for me. I know it's important for Dan, and I know it's important for Bill

and Hagen that we keep that connection because that

connection is a lot has a lot to do with, I think

the way that we're able to talk about our beer

and really just share our beer, with with

with beer drinkers. But to answer your question, to

start, you'll see a lot of our core 4, Vienna Lager.

Like the Hellas Locker? Yes. The Hellas Locker.

So a pale a pale ale, our pale lager. Yep. Kolsch,

which is, you know, technically a pale ale, and then, a Hefeweizen.

So for dovetail beers, like, we make beers

that are to be enjoyed round after round.

So nothing, you know, too high in alcohol that, you know, it has, like, a

nice, malt character to it. It's got a a

balanced bitterness, and it usually finishes

dry. Like, for us, we want you to sit down and just enjoy a couple

of rounds of cocktail. So what you'll see is mostly core 4

to start. I'm think a majority of it's gonna be on

draft. We also are very fond

of our bartenders. There is a check saying that goes,

it's the brewer that makes the beer, but it's the bartender that completes

it. So it's it that entire process

isn't finished until that that beer is in front of

you. And we have a ton of of

admiration and respect, for the people that are behind the bar as

well. So we make a beer that's just simply called

lager, and it's only draft. It's only in bars and

restaurants, and that's our way of kind of

saluting, those people who are completing our

beer. And and for the and for the folks listening, when when I said

Hella's Lager, I held up the can, and the podcast screen. You you

don't see anything, but you hear. So hopefully you heard the clank of the the

beer can. I'm curious since, you know, it is Women's History

Month, and you have some

incredible credentials, behind your name. And I'm just

curious, you know, what have been some of

the hats that you've worn in the industry? Well, I guess, you

know, I I I've always been interested in beer, but,

my I guess my professional path into beer

started with the Cicerone certification program.

So that feels like another lifetime ago, at this point.

But if people aren't familiar with the Cicerone certification

program, it's a it's a certification for people that sell

and serve, beer. The the easy

way to describe it is like, it's a it's a sommelier for

beer. And again, like going back to

what I said, where where the beer really

isn't completed until it's in front of you. I think, you

know, beer service is such an important part of

beer culture. And I can nerd out about beer service

traditions all day long. So I started out the Cicerone

certification program. I was an exam manager there. And

during that time, I had the opportunity to to

travel all throughout North America and

some some places in Europe and really get to visit,

other beer culture and really, you know, see how other

breweries were serving their beer, what they were doing, how

they were brewing their beer and and what they were brewing. And that was

very important to me. That was like my observational

education. As it so happens, there

is there's this there were these train tracks,

next to my office window. And one day I

was looking outside the window and over the train tracks.

And I saw these. What I found out

later were open for banners going into a building. I'm like,

that's interesting. What's going on there? So I ended

up basically inviting myself over, and that was the first time I

met Hog and Abel. And it it was things

that I had never seen in a North American brewery before

when I stepped into to dovetail. One of them being the open

fermenters. That was just something I've never seen in a North American

brewery. The other thing was the cool ship. The other thing was

this 4 vessel brewing system where they were telling me

about how they were going to their beers. Like,

it just kind of blew my mind, and it was something as

somebody who's really interested in beer traditions, like, just

really spoke to me as far as, like, a shared philosophy

about brewing. So yeah. So I invited myself over. They needed

somebody to help serve in the, in the tap room there the

1st couple of months. And, yeah, I never left.

So Scoped it out. You're like open fermentation and decoction?

Yeah. Sign me up. Yeah. I love that. I love

that. So we were at Lost Dog Cafe in Alexandria,

and I was fortunate enough to buy the last Hellas, a 4

pack there. We talked to our

friend, Steve Quartel, and he had mentioned that on opening night, the

Helles keg kicked by 8 PM. So it definitely,

like, seems that the, old Chicago standby

of, 1, 2, 3, 7, 8

beers, held up well. And I love your

description of the core for, representing ethos of

the brewery and the beers you make, which is we want you to have a

few. We don't want them to be high gravity, high alcohol, too

sweet, too bitter, just in that sweet spot. And they all do

play that very well. I bought a 4 pack of all of the

core 4, but I'm wondering the microcosm of just

because Helles kicked first both the keg and and the can sales at

Lost Dog. If that translates to what you see in Chicago with the

Chicago market, obviously, it's too early to really tell what's gonna

do great and go gangbusters in DC.

But I'm I'm just wondering about the brands, how well they sell,

what's sort of the number one seller, and do you think that'll replicate

itself in DC, or do you think DC will be a bit of a curve

ball? Well, you could tell me more about DC drinkers. I

could tell you about Chicago drinkers. And I know Chicago drinkers.

Like, honestly, all of our those core 4, they there's a little bit

of seasonality to it. Like, you might see a little tick of,

Hefeweizen in the summer, and then, a little bit of Vienna

in the fall and winter because it's got, like, the more toasty, caramelly,

warm, comforting, malt flavors to it. But there is

no like clear cut, like number 1 seller. Yeah. You know, you know,

it's not like it was 15 years ago where people are

we're chasing these, these huge personalities

of beers, like the barrel aged out, like the super

bitter, happy, you know, the IBU wars and

whatnot. I think as maybe the

the quote unquote craft beer market matures, I think

people's palates are maturing as well. That's not to say that

there isn't a spot for, you know, I like a good,

big, boozy, barrel aged salad every once in a

while too. Yeah. But it is great to have, you know, we love smoked beer

so much. I have live oaks Grodzinski, a 3% beer,

you know, a smoked a 100% oak smoked

wheat, and then you your brewery makes a Grodzinski as

well, and they kinda stand out not as

opposite, but as a different type of smoke than the Schlenker Law,

the Heller Troop beer from Franconia, Bam Bamburger Rauch

beer, which is world famous in its own right. So,

we're just we're so excited that that dovetail is

here. So thank you. And, you know, 2

years of planning. Right? It really the thoughtfulness shines through. I

think the thought was like, oh, Dovetail just got here, so they must

have just, like, sent some kegs and cases down. But you really took the

time to roll it out right. Oh, I'm glad I'm

glad you I'm glad you, you saw that and and and recognize

that. Because again, like, everything we do is very, very

intentional, very intentional. It might seem a little off the wall sometimes,

but it's it is intentional. And, you know,

I don't wanna be seen as a brewery that just drops off beer and then

leaves. I wanna make sure that we're there as a resource for the people that

are serving our beer, that we're there to connect with the people

that are drinking our beer. And, you know, I have some ideas about

how I can do that, and I hope I get to be in DC, and

I hope we get to do things that, you know,

bring a little part of our taproom to to DC as well.

Awesome. Well, JP, thank you so much for joining us on the DC Beer

Show. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much,

JP. We love that you're repping the right proper shirt.

Again, as as Mike said in the intro, always nice to see,

a fan of the DC beer scene. And, also, for those of

us out there in podcast radio land, the

running joke is that, those of us who

talk on the DC beer show are the main

consumers of Rauch beer in the DC metro area. And so

it's really nice to have the person behind

National Rauch Beer Month, which for us is every

month on the pod. Alright. We're at

DC beer across the socials. Saint Patrick's

Day is coming up. Cherry Blossom Beers are here. Saint

Baldrick's is gonna is coming up at Boundary Stone too.

Everybody be well. Be safe. Mike, parting thoughts. You

wanna take us out? Sure. It's that time of year where

we switch from, Port City Porter weather to Port

City WIT weather, but I have to I have to be

true to my my buddy, Julie, at Arlington

Brew Shop. Every weather is porter weather.

Kinda like how every day is wrapped beer day. You just have to try

hard not. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll see you out there. Be

well.