Refrigerator Moms

Getting into college is not the same as being ready for it, and for autistic students, that gap can lead to a painful call home. Dr. Marci Schwartz, founder of Thrive College Counseling, joins Julianna and Kelley to unpack what real college readiness looks like: executive functioning, independent living, advocacy, and social connection, all built on a foundation of self-awareness. They talk through how parents can tell if a student is truly ready versus just capable, how to talk about fit instead of prestige, and what to do when a student needs to come home and start again.

Key Takeaways:
  • College acceptance does not equal college readiness, self-awareness is the real foundation
  • Four core skills to build before college: executive functioning, independent living, advocacy, and social connection
  • Asking for help in a timely way is itself a college readiness skill, not just a social nicety
  • Nearly 1 in 4 autistic college students drop out, prestige is not protection against that
  • Fit matters more than rank: small classes and known professors can outweigh brand-name schools
  • Students should demonstrate independence in high school, not just promise they'll do it later
  • IEPs and 504s don't carry over to college, the student must self-identify and request accommodations
  • Comprehensive support programs, executive functioning coaches, and gap-year skill building are real options when a student isn't ready
  • Mental health self-identification is its own readiness skill, and often the hardest one to build
  • Neurodiversity-informed career services matter as much as academic accommodations, because the real goal is career, not just college
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
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Refrigerator Moms is sponsored by Brain Performance Technologies, a specialty mental health clinic that offers neuromodulation treatments for mental health conditions including depression, PTSD, OCD, anxiety, ADHD and autism. Our treatments utilize TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation) protocols including rTMS, aTMS, and MeRT. All of our treatments are drug-free and noninvasive. Call for insurance options or learn more at https://brainperformancetechnologies.com

00:00 A student's crisis call home from college
00:24 Welcome to Refrigerator Moms
01:04 Why college readiness starts in 9th grade
01:04 Meet Dr. Marci Schwartz
01:57 From therapist to college counselor
02:55 The biggest gap in family understanding
03:50 College capable versus college ready
04:06 The four core readiness skills
04:31 Self-awareness as the foundation
05:08 Building self-awareness through mistakes
06:09 Asking for help is a social skill
06:29 Redefining what social support means
08:23 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
09:31 Scaffolding versus true independence
10:32 The show me standard for readiness
11:03 What demonstrating responsibility looks like
13:17 Executive functioning and independent living
13:31 Advocacy and IEP meeting involvement
14:15 Social skills and roommate life
14:33 What realistic prep looks like in high school
16:40 When to start these conversations
17:26 Talking to parents fixed on prestige
19:05 The one in four dropout statistic
19:40 How Dr. Schwartz evaluates college fit
21:15 Helping students recognize their own fit
21:47 Advice for students who come home
23:34 Mental health signs students must self-identify
24:53 Deferring enrollment versus community college
26:35 Sponsor: Brain Performance Technologies
27:24 What accommodations carry over to college
28:48 Comprehensive support programs explained
29:22 The hardest part to set up: mental health
30:31 Neurodiversity-informed career services
31:41 Closing advice for families
32:45 Where to find the Refrigerator Moms paper

Creators and Guests

Guest
Julianna Scott
Guest
Kelley Jensen

What is Refrigerator Moms?

Born from 20 years of friendship, during which they navigated the trenches of autism parenting and advocacy, the Refrigerator Moms is Kelley Jensen and Julianna Scott’s way of reaching out to parents waging the same battles they were.  Their purpose with this podcast is to clear the fog, silence the noise, and find a path through neurodivergence for parents that are stuck between bad choices. They tackle parenting topics such as mom guilt, tantrums, pathological demand avoidance, siblings, medication, comorbidities, social media, and much more. 

Julianna Scott 00:00
Your autistic child got into college. After years of hard study, hard work, good grades, they're there and they're calling you, crying, they want to come home. What went wrong? What could you have done differently? That's the topic of our latest paper and this episode of the Refrigerator Moms.
Julianna Scott 00:24
So welcome back. This is a podcast where we get honest about what it really means to raise an autistic child. I am Julianna, and this is my co-host, Kelley. And we're glad that you're with us. So today we're tackling one of the most emotional milestones in an autistic parent's journey, the transition to college.
Julianna Scott 00:44
But we're not starting at graduation. We're starting much earlier, because college readiness isn't built in senior year. It's built across all four years of high school. And we're going to dig into what college ready actually means for autistic students, which skills need to be developed and when, and how to find the right fit, and what to do when the path forward doesn't look the way you expected.
Julianna Scott 01:04
So today we are joined by a guest, Dr. Marci Schwartz, founder of Thrive College Counseling, which specializes in helping neurodivergent teens find the right college fit and make a successful transition to life after high school. She began her career as a therapist working with families with children with developmental and learning challenges going back to 1989. She holds a PhD from NYU, a certificate in college counseling from UCLA, and co-teaches a course on working with students with learning differences at UC Irvine, and serves as an adjunct clinical associate professor at Stanford University School of Medicine. She also contributed her expertise directly to our Refrigerator Moms paper on this topic. So, Dr. Schwartz, welcome.
Kelley Jensen 01:46
Hi, Dr. Schwartz. It's a pleasure to see you. Marci, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your work and some of your patients, or clients, I guess you would say. Call them clients. I would call them clients.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 01:57
Students, yes. Well, thank you both for having me here. I'm excited to talk about this topic. So, yeah, let's get started. I worked as a therapist for many, many years and worked with a neurodiverse population of students and parents.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 02:10
And I ended up pivoting about 12, 15 years ago to becoming a college counselor, because in my role of therapist, I saw students launching off to college, but then many were not successful and came home or struggled, developed, or, you know, were dealing with mental health challenges once they came home. And I wanted to get in front of that and learn what I could to support students in having a successful journey to college and beyond, and to career and life, and understood that that transition from home to independence is so critical that I really wanted to just make that my area of focus, which I've done.
Kelley Jensen 02:55
That's awesome. Yeah. So what do you see as sort of the biggest challenges of this transition, for the families to understand and also schools, honestly, to really understand what is needed to make that transition?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 03:10
Oftentimes students are viewed, you know, just one-dimensionally. Well, they get good grades. And the schools may not be aware of the prompting and scaffolding that's going on at home, how much a student is able to understand college readiness skills and taking responsibility as they grow during high school. And so there's really a struggle of understanding how to prepare a student. So a lot of lack of knowledge, it's not bad intent. It's just zeroing in on something like, oh, but they got into X, Y, Z school, so that means they're ready. That does not mean they're ready.
Kelley Jensen 03:50
And so that gap in knowledge is really a challenge. So is that the difference between college capable and college ready? We hear a lot about the college capable versus ready. So getting into the school, they're capable of getting in and all those things. But are they ready?
Kelley Jensen 04:06
And I know that when we collaborated on this paper, but also doing the research, what kinds of things students need to become college ready?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 04:15
And we'll definitely talk about those skills. Skills. And we've kind of narrowed it down to four main skills that autistic students need to build for college readiness, and that's executive functioning, independent living, advocacy, and social skills.
Kelley Jensen 04:31
Would you agree those are the main areas to target?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 04:35
Yes. But before that is self-awareness. Does the student understand why social skills are important? Students might say, but I don't need to socialize, I'm going to be fine. I get that that's their viewpoint, but it's more nuanced than that. When you're living independently, that self-awareness and that openness to receiving feedback, making changes, those are foundational skills to all of those things that you mentioned.
Julianna Scott 05:08
So how do you build that self-awareness?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 05:11
It's helping students make those connections. So when they are struggling with something, if a student did poorly on an assignment, being able to do almost an autopsy of that: well, what went wrong? Well, I waited to the last minute. And oh, but then let's look at some college readiness skills. It's planning. Did you ask for help? Oh, no, I didn't. The student might say. Okay, now there's a moment for learning. What can we do next time, so that you can ask for help in a timely way? And if the student is like, I'm fine, I'm fine, then they're not ready to make that connection, and we just kind of have to keep trying. And the developmental track of each student is different. Just because society says go to college right after high school does not mean that all of our brains are automatically ready for that. But that's hard to understand and really see for students and parents.
Kelley Jensen 06:09
And do you feel, I mean, I'm listening, and I feel like asking for help is a social skill, right? So maybe you have a student, or sometimes I think the parents think, well, it's fine that he, socializing is partying, and he's not going to do that, and that's just fine. But socializing is also asking for help. And so maybe it starts with a conversation about what social actually means for everybody's life.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 06:29
Right, right. So for social, in my mind, it's based on what the student is interested in. So if they're like, I don't want to party, I don't want to be whatever, the research is very clear that if you are not connected to your college community at all and you are going to class and coming back to your room, you're not part of study groups, you didn't join Dungeons and Dragons, you don't do any of that, the graduation rates are not as good. And then when you're isolated, sometimes students are like, I don't have friends now, and I don't need friends there. But you do have a family that you talk to. You are not isolated, but it's hard for a student to really understand what it's like to talk to nobody that really sees you or checks in with you day after day, and that has an emotional impact on students that they might not even realize. When I say social, it's whatever is right for the student. If their only social environment is Dungeons and Dragons, that is on our college list of what we're looking for. This college must have that, or the student has the skills to start that.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 07:22
Back to your point, Kelley, about asking for help as a social skill, it is, but the way that I frame it in my mind is, does the student have the ability to independently, without prompting, ask for help of the appropriate person in a timely way? And that appropriate person could be their mother. That could be the plan: okay, you're confused, you're struggling in math class in college, call your mom. That's our plan. And she and you have already agreed that she's going to reach out to the tutor. The tutor will then call you and you will agree to show up to the tutor. And if that happens, I'm good with that. So it's not as much of a social skill, as long as we have a plan for it, as I think you were thinking. Does that make sense?
Julianna Scott 08:23
This episode of the Refrigerator Moms is brought to you by Brain Performance Technologies. Brain Performance Technologies is a specialty mental health clinic that offers Magnetic e-Resonance Therapy, or MeRT, for autistic people aged three or older. MeRT is a transcranial magnetic stimulation protocol that utilizes an EEG diagnostic to deliver personalized magnetic pulses to stimulate the brain and build neural pathways effective in managing autistic symptoms.
Kelley Jensen 08:52
Definitely. So, Marci, let's talk about the family dynamic, because I think that is really integral. A lot of the students that I think you're working with, that I also work with as a college essay counselor, the families of those students who are on the spectrum have been usually very involved in their students' lives and their educational journeys. And there's a lot of scaffolding that goes on. There's a lot of help with executive functioning skills and all those things. How do you identify when you're not sure if the student is able to do certain things independently from the parent, and what do you do to kind of bring that topic up and mitigate some of that and make that transition?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 09:31
So I'll have that conversation with the parent and the student, and sometimes there's a disagreement. The student's like, no, no, no, I'm waking up myself all the time. And the parent will often look at them and say, are you kidding me? That's not really true. Like, remember yesterday? And so when that happens, we kind of have an agreement. I explained to the student why this is important, thinking ahead towards college, what's going to be expected. And then, explain that there's going to be time to work on this, and then have the parent and the student keep track so that the student actually sees, because the student might not really remember that the parent woke them up, because they were sleeping, and they kind of feel like, well, I'm up now, and what's the problem?
Kelley Jensen 10:13
Or I get other students, yes, and sometimes students will be like, I know I'm not doing it now, but I know I could do it in college.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 10:32
Yeah, and I can tolerate that and go with that from freshman, sophomore, maybe halfway through junior year. But after that I bring out my "show me." Like, that's great that you're telling me that, but right now I need you to show me, and show your parents, that you could do it. And telling me you could do it is not the same as showing me.
Julianna Scott 10:53
What are some of the ways they show you? What are some of the things you're looking for? Do you have a checklist? I imagine it's highly specific to the child, but what are you looking for? How can they demonstrate it?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 11:03
So some of the core things, like if the student takes medication, are they independently taking that medication without parent prompting? And are they saying, I only have three more pills left, can you help me get a refill? That's showing responsibility, even though they're not completely independent necessarily, but we can get there. So they need to start to show the parent that they are, whether they set their alarm, they're waking up. It doesn't have to be 100% successfulness, but you can see the student is taking agency. They're trying, and they're making those efforts.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 11:47
And another important thing that I like to mention to families is that even if the student could do it once they go off to college, right, I'm sure that's happened, right? There's no way that hasn't happened, where the student's like, I'll do it, I'll do it, and then they go to college and they are successful, which is great for that student. But first of all, we don't have a crystal ball to know who that's going to work for. And the other thing is that other students who have been waking up independently or doing all those things independently for years, when they start college, they are able to concentrate on other things, their academics and social, and they're not bogged down by these other skills that they're learning for the first time. And it takes students who already have a bit of a disadvantage, because they're navigating additional strengths and challenges, we're just adding to that unnecessarily.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 12:33
So one of the things that I want to do is decrease the burden that the student needs to navigate through in college, and get those skills built in high school.
Kelley Jensen 12:56
Yeah, absolutely. So touching back on those skills that need to be built, one of them is executive functioning, and that's breaking things down, self-studying without a teacher, breaking it down, managing all these responsibilities, managing their time correctly. The other one, independent living skills, which is the cooking, if necessary, the cleaning, managing their finances. A lot of students don't even know how to use their debit card sometimes until they go off to school.
Julianna Scott 13:17
Does anyone use cash anymore?
Kelley Jensen 13:19
Nobody uses cash. I think they probably know how to use their debit card more than they know how to use cash would be my suggestion, my assumption.
Julianna Scott 13:26
I mean, I've forgotten how to use cash. And then of course, advocating, that's a huge one. I know for my son, part of, I guess, we were encouraging him to advocate for himself, but even involving him in the IEP meetings starting in high school, that was big. Becoming aware of, what accommodations do I have, because they're going to have to handle all that once they're in college themselves. I don't think parents would like to be able to handle that. I definitely came with my file folder to the disability center, but they very politely said, you can wait here. And they took it in, and I'm like, oh, okay, I guess I'm no longer necessary in this process.
Julianna Scott 14:15
And then social skills, of course, and navigating that. Maybe they haven't lived with a roommate, or maybe they have a crush.
Kelley Jensen 14:23
Oh yeah, that's like a whole other thing, right?
Julianna Scott 14:26
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of it. Maybe the student has excellent grades, but they're lacking in these skills.
Kelley Jensen 14:33
So what does that preparation realistically look like in high school? How much can you prepare them in these four areas?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 14:44
In high school, I think if the parents and the students are willing to engage and they're open to working with building these skills, it can be quite successful. Oftentimes students do well with an executive functioning coach who can work with them on time management and figuring out when they need to study, how to build study skills. So that can be very helpful.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 15:00
A therapist is often really wonderful, whether it's an individual therapist or a family therapist, really focusing on this topic, could be really useful to help the student raise their own awareness about the skills they need to build, and also to help them frame their strengths. It's such a big piece of this, having students really be able to know what their strengths are and articulate them, and understand that the goal of this is not to change them or make them different, but to understand that we want them to be able to lean into their strengths and their gifts.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 15:47
But if their challenges are going to get in the way of their strengths, then nobody wins with that. And so framing that, understanding that we, to the student, we see your strengths, but it doesn't mean we can ignore your challenges, or maybe some of them we could ignore, but maybe others we really need to work on. And then oftentimes by the time the students are in high school, 11th, 12th grade, they're seeing how their executive functioning skills are impacting their grades, and that's going to impact their college choices, and they're starting to make that connection, and then they will develop more of an openness to working on those things, and that's very helpful.
Julianna Scott 16:34
Yeah, very motivating. So you're kind of alluding to, you start in 8th, 9th grade, and you start having these conversations, and it really gets serious junior and senior year. Is that what you're thinking?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 16:47
Typically, sometimes start in 9th grade, often in 10th grade, to lay the foundation of these concepts. Some parents want more information than others on that. A lot of families will feel like, no, no, no, I've got this, so I just need you to help me with the college list, which I will do, but they may not really, it's hard because parents don't know what they don't know, and I don't know their student, so I can't say. And so I try to explain what I could help with.
Julianna Scott 17:15
What would you say to a parent that is intent on their child getting into the most prestigious university that they can afford, or that the child is qualified to get into? What is your best advice, what is your most persuasive argument, for a child that you don't see as being capable of living across the country at any Ivy League school?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 17:26
It's not an uncommon conversation to be had, and it really leans into, getting accepted to a college does not mean that you're going to be successful there. And we also talk about the real goal is career. And so sometimes I'll have students that love hands-on learning, they love to build, and there's colleges with co-op experiences, or it's project-based, and that's where they shine, that's where they're happy, and they might be able to get into an Ivy League school, but that educational environment is not really a great connection for how their brain works and where they shine. And it does not lean into their strengths, like core requirements, like you need to take three English classes, those can be, students might be allergic to that. So that's so terrific that you got into blah blah blah Ivy League school, but let's look at the classes you're going to need to take versus this other one, and helping them see, you have choices, and you want to choose the fit that's going to help you do well in college and have a career that is a fit for you. Do well in college, and even better, in life.
Kelley Jensen 18:50
Right, I've had the occasion multiple times in my career to deal with a colleague that is, but I went to Harvard, why wasn't that my golden ticket? And that's a hard conversation to have with a 30-year-old.
Julianna Scott 19:05
It's easier to have with a 15-year-old, right, and their parents. I mean, these dropout rates are no joke. One in four autistic college students, nearly 25%, drop out. That's a pretty damning number, right? So as a parent, you want to mitigate that.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 19:23
It doesn't matter if you drop out of Harvard, or, if you drop out of Harvard, but don't drop out of a school that can fit your needs, then that's a win.
Julianna Scott 19:40
So, Marci, what are you telling students about fit? What to look for in fit, what are their options?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 19:47
So I describe their options, but I will get to know their learning profile. And what's really helpful is just to ask the student to tell me the classes that they're currently taking or just finished taking, and give me a couple of sentences about, biology, I like my teacher, hated the subject, that kind of thing. And then you can really see, just from that conversation, what the student says, how connected they are, how their academics are connected to the relationship with their teacher. Because they'll have some classes that you just hear that in their description, and then you're thinking to yourself, this student is going to do well in a small to mid-sized school where they will know their professor.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 20:24
If they're going to go to a giant class with hundreds, if not over a thousand students, that professor is not going to see them. How will that impact their academics and access to research? That can vary tremendously by the college or university somebody is at. Will the student really see this? Will the professor see the student's gifts and be able to say, oh, I see you, you get this material, let me offer you this opportunity, or have office hours that they could go to as opposed to the TA? There's so many things, and some students just don't need that, like you water them and they grow academically, they've kind of got this, they just need help with independent living skills, then fine. But some students, that's going to make a big difference. And so that's what we really look at, to help the student understand their fit in relation to the options.
Kelley Jensen 21:15
And are you seeing any students that are coming back, or what is your advice to a student that has needed to come home? How do you help them pick up the pieces after that?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 21:24
Yeah, oftentimes they need to go to community college to correct a transcript, they need to rebuild their academics because they didn't do well a semester or two. And if you're applying for transfer, that next school wants to know, well, what's changed, can you handle college-level work? So during that time when they're home and going to community college, we put in an executive functioning coach, if the student's open to a therapist. But at that age, when there are significant mental health impacts from that, that needs to be handled first. So sometimes that is the primary focus. But once they're out of that and ready to move forward and take classes, maybe get a part-time job, the students are terrific to work with, because they're that much more mature, they have that lived experience. They understand what I'm saying about, this is the reason why we would want to use accommodations in college. They're like, you're right, and it's actually a really neat and positive and more engaging partnership opportunity for me than it is with the undergraduate. It's just qualitatively different.
Kelley Jensen 22:52
Right. So are you seeing students who come home who try a four-year and come home, is it mainly like their mental health has impacted that experience, or is it academic, or the executive functioning, or is it kind of all in a circle, everything feeds the other parts?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 23:10
Sometimes it's just organically, one of the college readiness skills that I want to see in a first-year student is that they are able to independently identify when they're struggling with their depression or anxiety, because often it's the parent identifying the signs and pointing it out, and then the student's like, well, maybe you're right. But that's not going to happen once they're away. So we need that. But if that's dialed in, sometimes school can be overwhelming and they might miss a class or two, and they feel a sense of shame or overwhelm. How can I go back, and who do I reach out to? And they don't have a good plan for that, and then they just stop going to class, and that can trip into some mental health, there's a sense of shame that comes, and that's just really tricky to navigate. And so they're often entangled. Sometimes it's directly from the mental health, sometimes it's the other stuff that causes it.
Kelley Jensen 24:13
How often are you successful? You've got a student and the family, and you really feel like this person would benefit from two years at a community college to gain some maturity, to get some more executive functioning, whatever. How successful are you at that conversation with a child that probably could get into the school of choice, but it might not be the best fit, or to defer that enrollment?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 24:54
So that's what we would more likely do, is defer enrollment and take that year. And there are different programs and opportunities to build the skills that they need to build. It's not very often that I would suggest community college, because that is often an extension of high school, right, they're still at home taking the classes, parents are still prompting. And they're like, well, I've done this, and it doesn't always. I mean, for some students, community college is amazing, but we have to really look at what the why is for our students.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 25:23
And so the gap year, but sometimes families will be like, well, they just need a break, they're just going to travel and it'll be fine, they'll work. And for some students, that is fine, they just need maturity. Other students, they need skill building. And so there's programs that we could suggest that they do for that, and then head into college. So oftentimes the student, by the time spring of their senior year comes along, they're often accepting the fact that they're not ready. Sometimes they are not. And I know that I have a couple from this last cycle, and they're going to go to college, and we've done, there's comprehensive support programs on college campuses, there's virtual supports that are very robust, that we really try to just push those things in, if the student will accept it, to really increase the chances of success. But from my viewpoint, all I could do is, I advise, they decide. So whatever they're going to do, they're going to do. But I try to really make sure that they have resources to turn to.
Julianna Scott 26:35
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Julianna Scott 26:59
Let's talk about those accommodations and resources. So a lot of parents, I know I had to do my research on it, you're used to IEPs or 504s, and then high school's over. So talk a little bit about what happens next, and what you carry with you and what you don't, because you pretty much don't carry anything with you.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 27:25
No, you don't.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 27:29
The laws change. So what the focus is on from K to 12 is really the success of the students, and the adults have a hand in it. Once college starts, it's really the college's job to offer access to support, like accommodations, extended time on tests or things like that. But it's the student's job to be able to make use of that and access those accommodations, which not all students do.
Kelley Jensen 27:56
So there are many students who are neurodiverse who are eligible to use those accommodations but have decided not to.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 28:03
That's an awareness and the advocacy skills, exactly. Or they're like, I've got this, I'm going to turn over a new leaf and be a different person in college. And again, sometimes that works, but it doesn't always work. So the focus is really, the onus is on the student, and the student needs to understand what accommodations they need, their learning profiles, and how to access those supports. And there are also comprehensive programs where you will have to apply separately, there's often a fee, and then you can get more robust services that are a fit for your learning profile. So on the college campus there could be a range of supports.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 28:49
But most colleges are going to offer like a writing center, where you could go and get help, but they're run by students, and the student needs to show up. And if you don't identify that you could benefit from this in a timely way, it doesn't really matter for our student.
Julianna Scott 29:09
Right. And for me, I know with my experience with my son, the mental health part was the trickiest thing to accommodate, because I think there's a much greater awareness on college campuses about the need to take care of students' mental health. But I know that from both my sons going into the mental health center, you'll get three sessions and usually they're focused on anxiety and overwhelm, because all students are going through that, and they're not equipped to handle an autistic person with OCD and severe perfectionism.
Kelley Jensen 29:47
Yeah, and with their, you know, their fidget cube that they give students.
Julianna Scott 29:52
That's not help, that's not going to, no, no. So I know for our experience, that was the hardest thing to set up, was going to the town he was in and looking for a therapist, and scheduling him to come home and talk to a psychiatrist and those things. And really, I think, is the onus is on the parent to set that up. Because I don't know, is your experience that you can't really rely on a college campus to really adequately address the mental health needs?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 30:31
That's true. Often colleges are getting better at offering neurodiversity-informed mental health services. And also quite importantly, not more important than mental health, but neurodiversity-informed career services, which is really, really helpful, and a wonderful thing that I'm hoping colleges continue to expand upon. Because as we said, the goal is not college, it's career. And when you have neurodiversity-informed career services that know they need to spend more time with you on interview skills, or thinking through how neurodiversity-informed is this potential job that the student is interviewing for, and will they accommodate a modified interview, there's a lot that does go on now, but it needs to continue to grow in that area.
Kelley Jensen 31:41
Yeah, yeah. So, Marci, we really appreciate all of this information. Are there any closing remarks that you have about how parents and students should approach this time of transition?
Dr. Marci Schwartz 31:52
I would say the biggest thing is an openness, for the parents and the students, to ask questions. And this is my profile, this is who I am, these are my strengths and challenges, this is where I want to go, this is my career, can you help me, what should I know, what am I not aware of, what should I be thinking about? And the vast majority of families will come to me and they tell me, this is what I want, this is what I need, but there's not the openness to learning and seeing a range and looking at areas of growth. And that's what I would suggest to families.
Julianna Scott 32:22
That's fantastic. Thank you so much. And I know Thrive College Counseling is an excellent resource, and your website has so many great resources that I know I have used and directed parents to. So really appreciate that, and also your, thank you for collaborating with us on this paper.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 32:46
This was my pleasure.
Julianna Scott 32:48
And this will be on our website, and all of the resources, in much more detail than we talked about here today. So we appreciate you, Marci, and we are grateful for all of the work you do.
Dr. Marci Schwartz 33:01
Thank you for having me. You guys are doing a great podcast series that offers so much to families.
Julianna Scott 33:12
Thank you so much. So if today's conversation resonated with you, we've written this full research-backed paper on the topic that Kelley has here, and it goes much deeper, including detailed lists of on-campus resources to look for when evaluating schools and a curated collection of websites and tools to help you start preparing your child for life after high school. So you can find that on refrigeratormoms.com. And if you found this episode useful, please take a moment to like, subscribe, and leave us a review. It helps other autism families find us.
Kelley Jensen 33:39
That's right. So thank you very much.
Julianna Scott 33:43
Thank you, Marci. Take care. Thank you for listening to this episode of Refrigerator Moms.
Julianna Scott 33:45
Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also find episode notes, resources, and any Refrigerator Paper connected to today's discussion on our website at refrigeratormoms.com, where you can sign up for our newsletter. We'd love to hear your questions and future episode ideas. Reach out to us on social media or through our website.
Julianna Scott 34:09
The information shared in this podcast is meant for informational and educational purposes only. It shouldn't be taken as medical, psychological, therapeutic, legal, or professional advice. If you have questions about a diagnosis, treatment, intervention, or any medical or developmental concerns, please consult a qualified healthcare or service provider. Don't rely on this podcast in place of professional guidance, and don't delay getting help because of something you heard here. The views and experiences we talk about are our own and those of our guests. They're not meant to serve as personalized recommendations for any individual or family.
Julianna Scott 34:38
Listening to this podcast does not create any kind of professional relationship between you and the hosts or guests. Any choices you make based on the information here are completely your own, and we are not responsible for any outcomes that result from them. If this episode includes a Refrigerator Paper, you can find all sources and citations along with additional notes on our website at refrigeratormoms.com.Corrections Log
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"Juliana" (spoken in intro)
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"patients or patients or clients"
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