Kan Talk Kulture with Kylie Anne Neal

Most hiring managers don’t lose candidates at the interview stage, they lose them during the offer.

In this episode of Kan Talk Kulture, Kylie Anne Neal is joined by People & Culture Consultant Georgina Walker to unpack what really goes wrong at the offer stage, and how to fix it.

From rushed decisions and cold follow-ups to delayed contracts and awkward salary gaps, they break down what great hiring looks like all the way through to Day One.

Whether you lead a team or manage recruitment, this episode will shift how you think about the final step in hiring.

In this episode:
  • What “don’t settle, don’t stall” means in real-world hiring
  • The power of gut instincts in recruitment (and when to trust them)
  • How delays and silence can cost you top talent
  • What candidates are really thinking between verbal offer and signed contract
  • The one question hiring managers need to ask before picking up the phone
The offer isn’t the end of the hiring process, it’s the beginning of your employee experience.

👉 Learn more at kankulture.com
📌 Subscribe to Kan Talk Kulture for more real conversations about building safer, stronger workplaces from the inside out.

What is Kan Talk Kulture with Kylie Anne Neal?

What if your company culture wasn’t just an HR buzzword but the secret weapon to scaling your business?

Welcome to Kan Talk Kulture, the podcast that dives deep into how remarkable company cultures are intentionally built and how they can transform your team, your business, and your bottom line.

Hosted by Kylie Anne Neal, founder of Kan Kulture and a passionate expert in people, culture, and leadership, this show is designed for business owners, CEOs, HR professionals, and anyone who believes that empowered people are the key to long-term success.

Each episode features real conversations with inspiring CEOs, business leaders, and culture champions who share how they’ve shaped their team environments alongside case studies, practical tips, and bold questions that challenge the status quo.

Whether you're looking to boost employee engagement, create a high-performance team, or align your people with your vision, this podcast will help you connect the dots between culture and growth.

At Kan Kulture, we believe in Kindness, Understanding, Learning, Trust, Uniqueness, Respect, and Evolving, and this podcast brings those values to life.

If you're ready to turn your team into your biggest brand ambassadors and create a workplace people love, this is the podcast for you.

Find out more at www.kankulture.com

 Hi, I'm Kylie Ann Neal, founder of Kan Kulture and welcome to Kan Talk Kulture In this podcast, I sit down with some of Australia's most progressive founders and CEOs. To explore the heart of their company Kultures what drives them, what they value, and what it's really like to work for the companies they lead. You'll also find occasional episodes packed with practical HR insights to help you. Build safer, stronger, and more trusted workplaces. So whether you're a new team member, getting to know your workplace, curious about creating remarkable company Kultures or just wanting to know more about implementing HR best practice, you are in the right place.

Let's dive in. Hi and welcome to Kan Talk Kulture My name's Kylie Neal, and I'm here with Georgina Walker, who's a people and Kulture consultant at Kan Kulture Welcome Georgina. Thanks for having me back. Kylie, thank you for coming in again. Last time we spoke about recruitment. Mm-hmm. And today I wanna talk about making the job offer. So today we are talking about don't settle, don't stall. Making job offers that secure top talent. So let's start with don't settle. I think the key point there is you might have a candidate that is available immediately. You might have another candidate who is the top talent of the candidate pool, but they're not available. They've got a four week notice period. What would you suggest a hiring manager does in that instance? Wait for the candidate that you want. Wait for the candidate that you want. Yeah, trust your gut. It's four weeks. The longevity of that person hanging around is probably better than the one that's available immediately. And while it might resolve your issues, then and there it will. Only create more issues in the future.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We always encourage our clients that it is best to wait if they've got a good candidate, notice periods have their function. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, it's really important that a candidate has the opportunity to. Close their job off to do their handover, to leave amicably and to have that transition from their previous workplace into their new role. So absolutely. Don't settle for the one that can start tomorrow because the role may have been vacant for a while. If it's not a hell yes, it's a no. Trust your gut trust. Trust your gut. The gut is a very powerful thing. Mm-hmm.

So let's talk about don't stall. When we think about job offers, the most important thing when we are looking at a verbal offer is timing, tone. Transparency. It's important that from a timing perspective, we're in the thick of the recruitment process. I've seen it many times where the manager just wants to sleep on it for a few days, or they start stalling at the last minute by saying, oh, I've just gotta wait till next week when I have some time to think about it. Mm-hmm.

Yes. What does that do to the candidate? They lose interest. They start. Questioning the role, they start questioning if they performed well in an interview. If they're actively looking for a role as well, they will look elsewhere. Yes. And if they get another offer in that time and they're desperate, they'll say yes to the other role. Yes. Yes. So timing and staying on track throughout the whole of the recruitment process. Mm-hmm. But offer is really important that. Timing is as soon as practically possible.

Yes. To be able to make that call to the candidate to offer the role. And I think that also feeds into the next part of it, which is tone. Because if your hiring manager is enthusiastic, is excited because they have identified top talent in the market to bring into the role, that enthusiasm is gonna come through in a timely manner. If they've waited for two weeks to be called to be told that they've got the role that you'd like to make them an offer. The tone is very different to the next day or a couple of days later. Congratulations. You've got the role, like the tone and the energy in that conversation of offering a role is really, really important. It, it needs to evoke that emotional hell yes. Well, if there is a delay also. Be transparent. Call them, take them on the journey, keep them informed. Give them a call every couple of days. Just do not Keep them waiting. Yes. 'cause they will go cold. You want to keep them warm. Yes. Yes. And that is the next part of it. So the transparency part, being really transparent, what does this process look like?

If there is a stall, why? And it needs to be a valid reason. Yes. You know, it needs to. I don't even, I can't even think of what a valid reason would be to wait too long to make that offer because I think the candidate and the manager. Going on that journey together from the start of the recruitment process to the end, even if they're not involved in the initial interviews, they're still involved in the process.

They might have been briefed about the candidates. True. So, you know, the hiring manager, I think if there is a stall, it needs to be a really legitimate, reasonable, legitimate and legitimate reason as to why, if there is any stalling techniques and it, it's obviously a stall. It's really hard. For us to be able to communicate to that candidate and keep them engaged and energized because people know. BS when they see it, right? Or when they, when they hear it, they, or hear it in your voice. So when you're looking at a verbal offer, any hiring managers listening, please, timing, tone and transparency is what is really important and what comes after a verbal offer. How do you keep them warm after a verbal offer?

Yes. So the next steps, right. You know, it's the same as as being really on point about the process and taking them on the journey from recruitment. It doesn't stop after the verbal offer, it doesn't stop, you know, there is the contract, and again, some particularly larger organizations, it can take weeks to get an employment contract done and. That's, it's not a nice experience. It's not a nice experience because yes, you've had the verbal offer, but a lot of people don't feel comfortable resigning from their role until they've got that contract at hand, until they've reviewed the contract. Mm-hmm.

Until they see that offer of role, of job, title of salary. Mm-hmm. In writing. Mm-hmm. So there's so, I mean, you know, there's so many kind of steps from start to finish of a recruitment process, but Absolutely. I think knowing that the verbal offer needs to be followed up and the candidate needs to be taken on that journey. Yeah. In a very clear and concise and transparent way. Yeah, let's have a bit of a chat about negotiating job offers. Let's, you know, we're, we've had quite a few experiences lately of negotiating salary being, I think candidates these days are more likely to explore.

Not just salary, perks, benefits, flexible working conditions, you know, there's a whole lot of additional things to salary that candidates are now really curious about. I think in my experience, you know, previously kind of pre COVID people wouldn't necessarily almost demand. Flexible or hybrid work practices Nowadays, more and more they, that it's one of their first questions after salary is, can I work from home a couple of days a week? Yeah. Even on the phone screening, what, what's the model? What's the percentage of working from home, working in the office? Yeah. But. To take it back. Negotiations should be happening at the beginning.

Yes. You shouldn't be taking a candidate through the cycle and then having those discussions when you're like, oh, we want this person. You shouldn't be making those major decisions then and there you should be being transparent, having those upfront conversations. We are completely remote or we are completely. Working from the office or hybrid, those questions shouldn't be towards the end of the process, I think. Absolutely. Absolutely. We had that experience a couple of weeks ago with that candidate that was actually over in Europe at the time. Yes. Uh, and reached out to me on LinkedIn because they hadn't been shortlisted for a role. The, you had told me that their salary expectations were a, like significantly higher. A lot higher. Yes.

Like outta the ballpark higher than what the range of the role was. And she had initially said to me that she wanted to be considered and that she did put her salary expectations in because it was a question asked, but she still wanted to be considered. Mm-hmm. I then went back to her and gave her the range of the role and then she said, no, that's fine. It's below my salary expectations. So I think that's a really good example of. Doing it upfront so that you're not wasting a candidate's time, you're not have creating inefficiencies that you know are a red flag.

We call 'em in recruitment, but you know, a red flag or you know that it's going to create confusion during the process. At some stage. At some stage it will flare up. Just curious, what's your thoughts on putting salary on job add? Yes. Yes. It's, it is a, I think if you've done. Due diligence to benchmark the role? I think it depends on the. I think it depends on the level of the role sometimes. Yeah. And you know, perhaps even the uniqueness of the role.

You know, perhaps for more junior level roles, if you think of an administration assistant, for example, uh. Putting the salary on can be really helpful. Yes. Because you do have candidates that may be comfortable with $65,000 or you know, you've got candidates who are admin assistants who might be more comfortable with $90,000. So, you know, there is a, for roles that do generally have a broad range all for roles that. Going to attract a lot of candidates. I think it's a really good way to, to hone in on it. Yeah. If it's more of a specialized role, then perhaps not. Mm. So I don I don't think it's, it's a, it's not a black and white. It's not a, it's not a yes or a no. Yeah, yeah. No, I was just curious your thoughts. Thank you.

So I think, you know, we're coming back to negotiating. I think the point there is. When it gets to that point, it should be a really, yeah. Clear. We are calling you to offer you the role. Mm. We've spoken about salary expectations. We're aligned. This is what the salary offer is. Mm-hmm. These are the perks that we spoke about. These are the flexible or hybrid working conditions that we spoke about at the start of the process. Mm-hmm.

This is all now being offered to you because we've all been clear and upfront about what that looks like. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. So, you know, there, there's been. A lot of, um, experiences were. Normally if we're not involved on the upfront, and hiring managers don't have those conversations upfront, they don't wanna talk about salary because it's a hard
conversation to have.

Sometimes candidates don't wanna bring it up. They'll just say, I'll just go through the recruitment process and I'll just kind of get to the end, and then I'll, you know, kind of throw another 20 K on what I'm currently earning, or something like that. So the best practice is to have those conversations up front. Yeah, but if we look at, let's just kind of say that we weren't involved in the process until the very end. Um, you know, we kind of come in late notice and we are making a job offer, and we, the role is, let's say a hundred thousand. Per annum and we call the candidate. We've got our timing, we've got our tone, we've got our transparency. Mm-hmm.

And we say, Georgina, congratulations. I'm calling to offer you the role of people and Kulture consultant for CAN Kulture Thank you. So I'm, how much the salary that we're offering you is a hundred thousand plus super plus flexible working conditions. Amazing. Perfect. You're not negotiating with me here.

Oh, what, how about one 20? I actually, there wasn't a time where, where we were involved in the process. I did the phone screening. I did, I helped with the interview questions. I. I said that the bracket was, say one 10 to one 20. At the beginning, I prompted the hiring manager to talk about salary in interviews. It came to offering, and this was straight away.

We were offering with a letter and contract, so I sent that to her. She called me and said. I actually didn't speak with the hiring manager about salary and I, that was not communicated with me. I assumed that it was spoken about in the conversation, but it wasn't, and it was embarrassing.

We, we weren't aligned and we, we had to go back to the drawing board because the salary was too low, right? So a waste of my time. Her time. And the hiring manager's time. Yes. Yes. And you can see in that instance, 'cause I've had examples as well where. The hiring managers sometimes like don't bring it up at all.

Yeah. And the first time the candidate sees it is when the contract's sent to them. Mm-hmm. And that's why they're waiting for that contract is because it's got a dollar amount over conversation that should have been had. Should have been had, but the hiring manager doesn't feel comfortable bringing it up.

The candidate doesn't feel comfortable bringing it up. So it's just this like, oh, well, we'll wait until someone raises the conversation about it. So that is why it's really, really crucial to have it upfront to surface it. And I think it's also important too. Check in with it along the recruitment process as well, because Yeah, yeah. People don't know what they don't know about the role until they go to interview, and that was a learning curve for me as well. Now I know too, you know that not all hiring managers like having those conversations. Yes. So, and if they don't like having those conversations, I'm happy to do it. But just let's relay that and speak through that together.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So a question of the, um, of the job briefing process Yes. Is when are we gonna talk about salary? Yes. The earlier the better. Yes. And you know, if the, the hiring manager isn't comfortable having that conversation, phone screening is the perfect spot for it. Yeah. You know, but again, at phone screening people don't have the full picture of the role. No. So it is really good to. Raise it and surface the conversation then, so it's not a sticky conversation through the process, not a shock. Internal candidates that haven't been successful in a job, how do we communicate with them in a way that retains their trust and keeps them engaged?

Again, it's a very emotional process. Mm-hmm. And from my experience often. Internal candidates, they wanna save face. Mm-hmm. You know, it's kind of, they may, uh, take on board that they're perhaps not quite got the right level of experience, someone external coming in wood. Mm-hmm. But it's a very delicate conversation. Mm. What are your thoughts about how they're addressed and managed?

I think often the hiring manager is their manager and. They don't wanna have the conversations. They try and handball it to us, and I always advise for them to have the conversations because it builds more respect. As long as you are kind, you give positive feedback, you thank them for taking the time to interview it, it shouldn't be.

A tough conversation. It should be something that brings you closer and you give them something to work towards. And you know, maybe they weren't the right person for this role, but there will be another opportunity for them. Yeah. Yeah. It. It, it seems like a scary conversation, but it shouldn't be. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think if the, if the organization has the right performance reviews and development plans and career conversations mm-hmm. And they have those people practices within the business, yes. That Kan Kulture has developed for them. Yes. They will be able to. Reattach them.

Like yes, detach them from the recruitment process. Bring them back into their role and really nurture and support, okay, you can get to this particular role in future. Let's look at where you're at right now. Let's look at those skills that you need to develop further. Mm, for to close the gap a bit from where you missed out on this time. Mm-hmm.

And it can be a really respectful conversation in my experience. When it derails is when those conversations aren't had. Mm, because the hiring manager feels bad that they haven't been successful. They almost shy away from really strong leadership opportunities in not being able to sit down and have a really constructive and confidence driven conversation and letting them know exactly why someone else has got the role instead of them, and it becomes awkward. It's awkward. It's awkward, it's embarrassing. It's a motive. Do we talk to each other? Do we ignore each other? Like what? What do we do? Okay, so thank you Georgina. We'll wrap it up there, but making verbal offers. Timing, tone, transparency. Don't beat around the bush. Don't beat around the bush. Use your gut.

Yes, it's all there.

Thank you very much everyone for listening to this episode, and we'll see you next time.

Thanks for joining me on Can Talk Kulture I'm Kylie Ann Neil, I hope today's episode gave you a clear review into the values driving your workplace. All sparked new ideas about building a remarkable company Kulture If you're a founder or CEO interested in sharing your Kulture story, or if you are looking to build a safer, stronger, and more trusted workplace, let's connect.

Visit can Kulture.com That's KA. K-U-L-T-U-R e.com to learn more. Please hit that subscribe button to hear more real conversations with founders and CEOs and hands-on episodes full of people. First Kulture advice. I look forward to connecting with you on our next episode.