Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00;00;00;05 - 00;00;22;19
Jennifer
Hello everyone, I am Jennifer Kluge. I'm the CEO of the National Association for Business Resources. It's nice to have you with us today. We're hosting this interview session, with my friend Tom Gimble, in conjunction with, the Best and Brightest programs and Corp! Magazine. Let me introduce Tom to everyone. he's in the staffing industry.
00;00;22;19 - 00;00;33;01
Jennifer
We're all talking about recruitment, retention, recruitment, recruitment. looking forward to getting his wisdom and insight. You've been around for a while, Tom, in the staffing three.
00;00;33;03 - 00;00;38;15
Tom
I thought we were going to be nice on this. Jennifer. That's a lot to start on.
00;00;38;18 - 00;00;58;01
Jennifer
but this why you're here is because, you know a thing or two. And I think, others out there could learn. I know you have been a Best and Brightest company to work for for many years, not only in Chicago, but at the national level. And you've scored extremely high, both locally, in Chicago and at the National level.
00;00;58;01 - 00;01;09;14
Jennifer
So congratulations to that. And, it takes a great leader that drives culture. So not only are you at, staffing expert, but you're also a culture expert. Welcome.
00;01;09;17 - 00;01;30;18
Tom
Well, thanks, Jennifer, for the kind words. As I was telling you before we started that, what Best and Brightest and business resources is built is phenomenal. And the name recognition that the award at that the recognition has is, is really just climbed up and up and up to a point that it's equal to almost any recognition there is in business.
00;01;30;18 - 00;01;44;00
Tom
So we take so much pride in that. And, you know, I, I guess I set the tone, but if you don't have great people, having the best ideas don't matter. So it's, very fortunate to have a great team. And we work well together.
00;01;44;02 - 00;01;53;22
Jennifer
Very true, very true. For those that don't know La Salle Network, can you give them a feel for what you do, your area of expertise within your operations, in your reach?
00;01;53;24 - 00;02;23;26
Tom
Sure. So we're recruiting and staffing firm, all white collar. We have a search, permanent search group, and then we have a temporary and contract business. And we've got about 300 employees, of which about 200 and little over 200 are recruiters. And we're headquartered in Chicago, but we do work in about 38 states around the country in the areas of it accounting and finance, health care, revenue cycle, human resources, marketing, sales, operational support.
00;02;23;28 - 00;02;36;13
Tom
We've got about nine different verticals that we do. And on the things that we don't do, we usually introduce our clients to specialists in that area and try to be a conduit to help everybody.
00;02;36;15 - 00;02;59;25
Jennifer
In those industries, our high burnout industries right now, too. So I can only imagine, what's going on with you? You know, there's the great resignation. I prefer to call it the great, reevaluation. I prefer, where there's a focus on, recruitment, retention and and engagement for many leaders. what are you seeing out there right now?
00;02;59;25 - 00;03;05;27
Jennifer
Is it as bad as they say in the media? I mean, what would give us a 32nd overview? What's really happening?
00;03;06;04 - 00;03;25;24
Tom
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't love the Great Resignation because the majority of people that are leaving jobs are leaving for other jobs. They're not leaving to go stay at home. You've got some people that may have reentered the workforce right before Covid, and then you go through all this stuff with childcare and things, and they chose not to stay.
00;03;25;28 - 00;03;45;17
Tom
But there aren't a ton of people that are, hey, you know what? I'm going to go live on the beach for a year, for six months. It's just not that way. The majority, I mean, I know a lot of people and I don't know anybody that's doing that right now. Right. I'm sure you're the same way. You get a few here and there, but the majority of people are finding jobs.
00;03;45;17 - 00;03;57;14
Tom
They don't pay more than a lot of them work fully remote. That'll be in an industry. They want to be in a job that's a more challenging job. I actually just see it a lot differently than what's being portrayed in the media.
00;03;57;16 - 00;04;12;23
Jennifer
Yeah, well, they're they're worse. many people that, quote unquote, left the workforce. Many women left the workforce. they're coming back, but in a different way. So there is a little bit of that, but not what you're hearing. Right.
00;04;12;23 - 00;04;29;26
Tom
Well, you have people that left the workforce. So maybe they and a lot of it's in the hospitality and service industries too. So you have people that were going in and being servers. And now they said, well, I can't do that because my kids may get called out of out of school and because of a Covid scare. And I got to do that.
00;04;29;29 - 00;04;48;08
Tom
And so is that the great resignation, or is that saying, I have to be there to take care of my kids? And you have this conflict, that's going on. And I think that just goes back to who the primary caretaker is. And so many families that that fortunately or unfortunately, it's females and that that really draws a line.
00;04;48;08 - 00;05;05;04
Tom
And that's unfortunate because women are so productive in the workforce that, you know, I don't know if it's by choice that they want to leave or due to their their family situation that they're the, the, the chosen one to be at all. Right. I think that's something that doesn't get discussed nearly enough.
00;05;05;06 - 00;05;15;09
Jennifer
Very true. So what looking ahead, how can you prepare executives for maybe the top three things they need to focus on as it relates to staffing and recruitment?
00;05;15;12 - 00;05;34;21
Tom
I think, number one, that every person who runs a team, whether you're an executive or a middle manager or what have you, is are you prepared for your best person to lead? Period. We live in a world where the divorce rate of marriage or marriages divorce rate is 50%. To think that people in in a in a corporation might not leave is crazy.
00;05;34;28 - 00;05;53;05
Tom
So you've got to be prepared. You may not like it, but you've got to be prepared for your best person to leave and know how you treat group number one. Number two, you've got to have a funnel of talent available. And what that means is you've got to continually be interviewing people for positions that report up to you.
00;05;53;07 - 00;06;19;01
Tom
And every leader, every manager should be doing this, whether it's two a month, one a week, five a quarter. However you want to do it, you should have a continual flow of interviews that are helping you measure what you have versus what's available and how that's going. And then thirdly, you've got to be doing stay what I call stay at a retention interview is you've got to be spending time with your people to find out how they're doing.
00;06;19;01 - 00;06;37;29
Tom
Do they like their job, or are they feeling challenged and what they want to accomplish this year? And I believe that if you do that, you'll eliminate turnover by 70 to 80% because people will feel that you're invested in them. And it's an emotional connection in the workplace. And people like to be around people that they care about them.
00;06;38;02 - 00;07;04;24
Jennifer
Yeah. So you're not well, you know, and as a fellow CEO, when you say be prepared, that your best person will be best. Terrifying for many of us. For many of us. But it's it's reality, as you mentioned, in the, the what I'd like to add to that is if you have a culture where people feel comfortable saying, this isn't working for me, nine times out of ten, you can find a way to make it work, right?
00;07;04;27 - 00;07;27;08
Jennifer
Whether you put the person in the right position for them or, you leave peacefully with that person. I think that's a lesson that I've learned in the past is, not take it personal, you know, as a small business, don't take it personal that someone's leaving and do the best to, to help them on their career, because you never know, they might be coming back.
00;07;27;10 - 00;07;45;00
Tom
They might say. And they could end up being your best client. They could be a referral source. There's so many that. We could all lose our job. Something had happened to our business. We could work for one, right? You never know where we're going to go, right? So let's not. I'm not a big fan of burning bridges, right?
00;07;45;00 - 00;07;47;20
Jennifer
Right. They advice, which sounds.
00;07;47;22 - 00;07;48;22
Tom
Great, but.
00;07;48;24 - 00;08;14;20
Jennifer
Why not bring it up? so everything going on, you know, this transformation of work and how we're working, some are hybrid, retail manufacturing don't have the luxury of some of the hybrid work. we're coming out of the pandemic slowly. What's going to stick? What do you think? What? What we're doing now, how we're operating now.
00;08;14;23 - 00;08;28;12
Jennifer
What do you think is going to stick? And what do you think is going to change? Like, for example, some companies are have this work from anywhere model recruit from anywhere. is that going to stick and what else do you think may stick or may not?
00;08;28;14 - 00;08;47;11
Tom
I think Remote Friday is the new casual Friday, right? I think I think that that that I think they'll always be, whether it's law firms or banks or whatever, they may have people in the office on Friday, but I think for the most part, remote Friday will be an option for the majority of organizations. That'll just be the case.
00;08;47;13 - 00;09;20;22
Tom
I think you'll have a real interesting flex. PTO paid time off in vacation because people can now I'm going to go away for, for a long weekend, but I'm also going to go two days earlier because the flights are cheaper and I'll work remotely for two days. Right. I think you'll have some of that. However, I believe that a full hybrid Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, for the most part, is going to be commonplace, and perhaps Monday through Thursday will be commonplace with a flex day that people can, you know, have a certain amount of flex days on Monday.
00;09;20;28 - 00;09;45;26
Tom
But yeah, what we have now and we'll see where things are in the next two, three, four years, but we have is an incredibly low unemployment. Yeah, right. And an incredibly good economy. So companies are one to really push the envelope too hard. They know they need to bring people back for culture, for retention, for onboarding and training.
00;09;45;29 - 00;10;09;25
Tom
Right. They know they need to do that. But they'll do it three days a week to appease everybody. When unemployment rises five, six, 7%, when the stock market dips, right. And the interest rates go up, you're going to see a different world. And and when jobs are scarcer and harder to find, when salaries come down, you don't have the employees don't have as much say.
00;10;10;03 - 00;10;25;14
Tom
And that's just economic volatility that happens in the marketplace. And right now they can say I want to work from home on Mondays, okay. Right. But in a different economy, they're going to say, not so much. We want you to come in.
00;10;25;16 - 00;10;33;02
Jennifer
What are you hearing from candidates right now, Tom? What are some of their requirements or demands? Demands is a strong word, but.
00;10;33;06 - 00;10;50;25
Tom
Demands is a more accurate word than than requirements. Because, you know, you require a certain level of voltage to plug something into the wall. Right? We don't require anything to go to work. Right. We can take it. You know, for most people, we can take a train or a car. We get there, we go to work. It's what we want.
00;10;50;25 - 00;11;14;18
Tom
It's our demands. And I think you're seeing employees really eyes that the majority of them, it's not going to be a fully remote option, but five days a week now, if you have a really unique skill set, if you're a software developer that's got the skill set, if you've got a parent that your is is terminal and you're going to stay with them for six months, right?
00;11;14;20 - 00;11;27;08
Tom
There's situations and circumstances. But overall, if you live near your office, you're going to be going into the work into the office. You just are right okay.
00;11;27;14 - 00;11;50;14
Jennifer
They're not they're not. let's, let's just shift gears for a second here. I know you are a fantastic leader yourself. I've heard you speak. You spoke at some of our programs. you had various things that you recommend for other, other leaders. let's talk about your leadership style. And can you share some of your secret sauce?
00;11;50;14 - 00;11;58;06
Jennifer
And let's say I'm brand new CEO. going into my first job as the CEO, what would you recommend to that?
00;11;58;08 - 00;12;24;02
Tom
I would I appreciate the compliments and the flattery. However, I'll codicil it and say my leadership style is only good in leading people who like my leadership style. Right. And I get it. We're in such a, polarizing political climate. But take take two very popular politicians of the past 30 or 40 years, right. You had Ronald Reagan on one side and you had Barack Obama on the other side.
00;12;24;02 - 00;12;53;20
Tom
Right? So I'm I'm being fairly right. I'm just skipping the I'm skipping the last two presidents. Right. So I'm going Ronald Reagan and and and and Barack Obama. And they were great leaders really to the people that like that school of thought, they didn't offend everybody else, but they didn't like everybody doesn't like them. And I think that if I went and I attracted a different type of person who might not like my style, the company wouldn't have the success.
00;12;53;20 - 00;13;16;13
Tom
And I think that that's a big part of it, of realizing that, you know, my brother used to always say, there's 31 flavors that, for of ice cream for a reason, and everybody doesn't have to like the same thing. And so for me, that's my number one rule is be true to yourself as a leader and then try to find people that are going to appreciate that style.
00;13;16;16 - 00;13;42;29
Tom
Now I'm a very hard on your sleeve authentic. You know, I always like to say I was I was being transparent, authentic and crying and do it before any but before. Brené Brown right now, she is smarter than I am and richer and more successful than I am. But but I always believe that you share your stories. You'd be open and honest about your insecurities and that's an attractive quality to people.
00;13;43;01 - 00;14;07;05
Tom
And I believe that as a leader, I believe that when you ask for help, that's not a weakness. That's a strength. And I think that from a leadership perspective, if you can get your employees to realize that you're on to something, and as a leader, if you can say you don't know versus trying to, throw some malarkey out there and seeing what sticks, I think you're better off.
00;14;07;07 - 00;14;31;11
Tom
But but when you're when you're a first time CEO or any time CEO and what you want to do, I really believe it's about building relationships with your employees. And I also believe it's about building relationships with people two, three, 4 or 5 or bigger. Company has layers beneath you. And so many CEOs I know they want to spend their time with their executive team.
00;14;31;13 - 00;14;48;28
Tom
If I can groom these leaders, I can get them to be, that's great and you can do that. But the best way to do that is for them to see what you do with younger people, junior people on the on the team, and to show them that there isn't a class ranking in your organization. It's not flat. I believe in titles.
00;14;48;28 - 00;15;10;07
Tom
I believe that people should know that there's a hierarchy, but there should also be one that entry level people can talk to the CEO and have good, solid relationships and and get to know those people. And I just I'm a firm believer that you you should like and care for the people that work for you. And if you don't, you're not going to want to spend time with them.
00;15;10;10 - 00;15;13;28
Tom
And if you don't spend time with them, they're not going to spend time with their people.
00;15;14;00 - 00;15;32;14
Jennifer
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I you do a lot, you do a lot and you really work hard at it. Can you share some of the little things that you do? I know you write personal notes. I know anniversaries and birthdays are a big deal. What are some of the, things within your culture that you personally drive that you can share?
00;15;32;15 - 00;15;35;11
Jennifer
Maybe a new CEO might want to borrow?
00;15;35;13 - 00;15;54;15
Tom
Yeah. So I'll tell you, a real easy thing is, I just I have it I have, an app that I fill out and it's called Memo to Me. And I put every important date and anniversary in there, and it sends me an email at four in the morning on that day, and I have it do it three days before the day, and then four in the morning on that day.
00;15;54;15 - 00;16;19;25
Tom
And it'll say, Jennifer Clooney's wedding anniversary is Thursday, right? And I can send you gift. I can send you a card. But on that day I call and text you, and I have that for every employee, for their birthday, for their anniversary, with work, for their wedding anniversary, for if they've lost a family member on the anniversary, you know, mother's like I'm, I know this is going to sound like I'm an old grumpy guy.
00;16;19;25 - 00;16;39;17
Tom
Like, I'm not necessarily the biggest hallmark holiday person in the world. but if you've got an employee and they recently lost a parent, they're not doing so great on mothers and Fathers Day, right? And you shoot them a note and go, you know what? I'm having a time with my kids right now. But I was thinking about how you lost your dad last year.
00;16;39;17 - 00;16;45;17
Tom
I just want you to know I was thinking about you right now. I do that because I really feel that way.
00;16;45;19 - 00;16;47;05
Jennifer
Yeah. It's genuine. It is.
00;16;47;10 - 00;17;08;22
Tom
Genuine. Yeah, but that's how you build a relationship. You know what? I just, I think that that managerial relationships are the same exact as personal lives. And what happens in a relationship? You caught your girlfriend or your boyfriend and you caught them, and you, you pick them up for dinner, and you open the car door, and you bring him flowers and take him to dinner.
00;17;08;27 - 00;17;19;18
Tom
Then you get engaged and you're still happy and you do all this stuff, and then, you know, five years, seven years, ten years, 15 years, there's no more date night. There's no more going. Right.
00;17;19;21 - 00;17;20;13
Jennifer
Okay.
00;17;20;15 - 00;17;24;04
Tom
What do you the 50% divorce rate in the country.
00;17;24;07 - 00;17;24;26
Jennifer
Right?
00;17;24;28 - 00;17;41;14
Tom
Right, right. Same thing. What do we do when we want to attract an employee? Hey, come out for cocktails with our with our management team. We want to we want to come meet, you know, bring your wife or husband out for dinner. I want to I want to get to know your family so we can recruit you to join us.
00;17;41;16 - 00;17;43;26
Tom
You know, here's the comp plan that we're going right.
00;17;43;28 - 00;17;45;19
Jennifer
Well on you. Yeah.
00;17;45;19 - 00;17;52;26
Tom
Well, yeah. Things 2 or 3, four years. Right? There's a new person we're trying to bring on, and we're taking that employee for granted.
00;17;52;29 - 00;18;19;24
Jennifer
I think that's a differentiator for the Best and Brightest Companies to Work For, because they get that. And there's processes and protocols around that. Keeping in touch with people, keeping people, top of mind the human, not the employee. And I think that is really what separates Best and Brightest companies and it is top down. I know you're humble, Tom, but it really is top down as driven from from the leaders.
00;18;19;26 - 00;18;43;27
Jennifer
so let's talk about made me, any mistakes you see other leaders doing out there? I mean, you're you're recruiting, you're hearing things from organizations, and you're seeing people lead, and you might see people leave mass exodus from from certain companies or from certain leaders. What are the mistakes you're seeing others do out there that are good for your business?
00;18;43;29 - 00;19;14;13
Tom
Yeah, I think I think that. CEOs don't view themselves as the chief recruiting officer of the company. And you might have a CEO that's a sales driven or marketing driven CEO, and not a finance or accounting or icky person. And so you delegate that off. Well, let me tell you, you're trying to recruit somebody who's got that skill set, and the CEO calls them and tells them, we'd love to have you join our company.
00;19;14;16 - 00;19;31;02
Tom
You can't pay for that type of relationship. You can't. So every CEO, depending on the size of the company and the level the employee should reach out to these hires and say, can't wait to have you join our company. Sincerely hope you're going to join the company. Can't wait to work for with you if you join our company.
00;19;31;06 - 00;19;53;01
Tom
Right? That and that is the number one thing. CEOs distance themselves from new hires and it's a terrible, terrible mistake, right? I think that's the biggest the biggest thing that they do I think I think number two is they don't share enough of their themselves with their company, is that their employees want to get to know them. They care about what makes them tick.
00;19;53;04 - 00;20;11;03
Tom
They want to know what's going on in your life. They want they, you know, is I agree with you. I try to to be humble. And so it, it it took me years to realize it's like they don't want to have a drink with me, and they want to go out for a drink with their coworkers and their friends.
00;20;11;06 - 00;20;32;00
Tom
And then you go out and you got people saying, oh, can I buy you a drink? Can I do the right? It's like, oh, you know, it means something to people because people aspire to be challenged and to grow. And so if you have access to somebody who much more success than you are, people want to know who you are, what makes you different, how did you get there?
00;20;32;02 - 00;21;02;20
Tom
And to share those stories and to be to be confident. The majority of people, present, company included, have huge insecurities, right? I'm. I'm 65, weight 250 pounds. I walk into a room into. I'm 49 years old. It took me until I was probably 40 to feel comfortable being the tallest person in the room, right? I still viewed myself as the gawky 17 year old kid coming in and how to get comfortable with that.
00;21;02;22 - 00;21;26;18
Tom
Then my hair is thinning and I got to get comfortable with that, right? But the real things, the real things. So lately that too often people don't admit their insecurities. And I just believe that that when you tell it like, I went, I've been divorced for 12 years. I went to therapy for a number of years, only recently stopped.
00;21;26;20 - 00;21;42;01
Tom
and I'll probably have to be committed to a hospital later for stopping. But but I think that that in all seriousness, that I share that with my company, because if somebody's got an issue they're going through, I want them to know it's okay to do it. And there shouldn't be a stigma on that.
00;21;42;03 - 00;21;44;27
Jennifer
Is in privately, especially.
00;21;44;27 - 00;22;01;02
Tom
Now, especially now. And I think to to know that whether you're 49 or 20 9 or 20 2 or 59, that that it's okay to go to therapy and you know what you need that hour on Thursdays from 11 to 12 to go, go like, oh.
00;22;01;04 - 00;22;26;22
Jennifer
Yeah, Nancy Lee, one of my pet peeves is, it's people are scared of the title despite the transparency, despite. So I like to call it the old employer bandage where there's this rank and file. But this that's hard to get rid of. Where, a CEO isn't looked at as a human first. So humanizing the position is part of the job.
00;22;26;25 - 00;22;28;01
Jennifer
And I don't say.
00;22;28;01 - 00;22;55;05
Tom
I was right, because I think I think with everything I just said, they also want to see you as a strong leader. And so you gotta do it, you know? And so you've got to look at your who, who, who reports. And we've all been through phases in our careers, unless we're brand new to the role that we've had, weak people reporting and your staff knows that you're letting them get away with it.
00;22;55;08 - 00;23;17;00
Tom
and they're looking at you and saying, why isn't Jennifer? Why is it Tom? Why is it Mary? Why isn't Bob? Why aren't they firing that person? Why are they letting him get away with that behavior? Why are they not reprimanding them? The staff sees it. So you've got to be strong with your convictions, but vulnerable with your beliefs.
00;23;17;03 - 00;23;39;08
Tom
And I think that, you know that we use a phrase here a lot, compassionate accountability. And I'm really fortunate I've had the same human resources leader. She's been with me for 22 years, and she held a bunch of jobs and then went back to college and got her H.R. Certification, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. But I always say she's got, as I've gotten older, I've turned into a grumpy, middle aged curmudgeon, probably.
00;23;39;11 - 00;23;50;14
Tom
And and as she's gotten older, she's developed this to riffic, skill set that she can hug you and kick you in the butt at the same time.
00;23;50;16 - 00;23;51;20
Jennifer
And not.
00;23;51;22 - 00;24;13;06
Tom
Walk out of the office saying thank you with tears running down your face, but a big smile. And it's an unbelievable skill set. And I believe that as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as a CEO, when you don't feel the pressure to be responsible for everything, then you can hold other people accountable to doing most everything.
00;24;13;09 - 00;24;22;02
Jennifer
Well said, well said. I love yes, accountability. We need stickers with that time. We need to make some stick.
00;24;22;02 - 00;24;26;05
Tom
Let's trademark Jennifer for crying out. Let me make it lotsa.
00;24;26;07 - 00;24;40;26
Jennifer
Awkward and then I'll make the stickers. How of let's the last few minutes that we have, let's talk about use. That is the human. Let's humanize you, Tom Gimbel. talk about some fun things. are you reading any books?
00;24;40;29 - 00;25;03;08
Tom
I am, I'm doing a combination of audio and and, traditional books. So I made the mistake of getting a dog, and I wish I could blame it on Covid, but I did it right before Covid. so I have these long dog walks now that I take so I'm listening to books then and on airplanes, and then I read books when I'm in bed or at home and, free time.
00;25;03;10 - 00;25;25;00
Tom
So I'm, I'm reading the cult of We the story of the we were alive. We work right now. So that's a physical book I'm reading along with, Can't Hurt Me, the David Goggins book, which is a little verbally abusive to me. I feel very weak and and and the masculine the the masculinized when I read it, but it's intense.
00;25;25;02 - 00;25;43;12
Tom
and then on the audiobook, I went a little bit more pleasure. I'm a big sports fan, and I listen to an autobiography of Walter Payton recently. and I'm listening to it's funny. I'm listening to a book that I like, the author and the story. So he had have you wrote a book about the Dallas Cowboys in the 1990s?
00;25;43;14 - 00;26;26;13
Tom
And it's a gossipy book about this team and all the craziness that went on. But I try to find relatable topics, transferable skills we call them and job candidates, but transferable messages from a book. And I'm reading this book, and I'm listening to the story of the gentleman that bought the team, the first head coach, how they commanded the team, how they how they brought people in, how they integrated culture and and genuinely, I find it to be more of, of, of a unique read on team building and culture than most of the business books that I read.
00;26;26;16 - 00;26;42;11
Tom
and I willing to that it's not why I chose it. It's not why I read it. And I think that so often we get so hyper focused. I need to read a novel because I need to not pay attention to this, or I want to read a biography because I'm just don't want business, or I need a business book.
00;26;42;14 - 00;26;52;23
Tom
And it can be all three can be one. If you look for the skills and the makeup of the characters, fiction or nonfiction, I think it can really help you.
00;26;52;26 - 00;27;17;05
Jennifer
Yeah. And there's adventure stories, too, like, Shackleton, his story and what he did and how he led it in totally relates to business as well. So more fun with you. If you could take any one job right now, forget what you're doing now, which would be a fun job for you to have right now.
00;27;17;07 - 00;27;20;06
Jennifer
You know, the toughest job, right? Yeah.
00;27;20;06 - 00;27;26;01
Tom
You know what I do? I love what I do. I'd probably be like a movie star.
00;27;26;03 - 00;27;27;18
Jennifer
Cool.
00;27;27;20 - 00;27;34;15
Tom
Or not even a character actor. Like, you know what? I don't want to be a movie star, like, in, like, the second or third person in the movie.
00;27;34;18 - 00;27;39;09
Jennifer
That would be fun. I'd be queer. favorite color?
00;27;39;11 - 00;27;40;19
Tom
orange.
00;27;40;21 - 00;27;44;25
Jennifer
Oh, fun. Favorite meal?
00;27;44;28 - 00;27;46;29
Tom
Pizza.
00;27;47;02 - 00;27;49;11
Jennifer
Any specific Chicago style?
00;27;49;14 - 00;28;01;22
Tom
MC thin frozen gourmet I'm not a big like, Domino's guy, but I love I mean, like, my friends Joe, I could eat. I, I'm not one of those guys that could eat pizza all the time. I do eat pizza all time.
00;28;01;24 - 00;28;03;23
Jennifer
You make it to make your own.
00;28;03;25 - 00;28;16;27
Tom
I have made pizza with my kids, and I've thought about getting that, pizza oven that's advertised all over the place. Now, I haven't done it yet, so I order out, but I. I'll eat it wherever I go, anywhere I love it.
00;28;16;29 - 00;28;27;28
Jennifer
So a little tip for you on the pizza. I'm of a heritage. And so we take pita bread and, I put, I make pizza. It's delicious. Really.
00;28;28;00 - 00;28;30;03
Tom
The the pita is the cross.
00;28;30;06 - 00;28;33;05
Jennifer
Yes. The last five minutes in Lebanon.
00;28;33;05 - 00;28;36;18
Tom
Probably browned very nicely. I bet it gets that. Yeah.
00;28;36;21 - 00;28;39;10
Jennifer
Yeah. Let me know. Right. Well, me.
00;28;39;13 - 00;28;39;26
Tom
Oh, I like.
00;28;39;26 - 00;28;44;00
Jennifer
That. favorite way to de-stress?
00;28;44;02 - 00;29;02;02
Tom
I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 years now, and that works really well. But then I also have what's called a tube light j I think it's j o o v maybe or j u u v. It's a red light, ultraviolet and red light because your phone is a blue light and this is a red light.
00;29;02;04 - 00;29;11;02
Tom
And I try to have it on before when I wake up in the morning and when I go to bed at night. And it helps your mood and your skin cells and all that. And it's been great for me.
00;29;11;08 - 00;29;20;15
Jennifer
Yeah. That's fantastic. I gotta try that. Yeah. what do you like the most in this world?
00;29;20;17 - 00;29;24;18
Tom
my kids need to love my kids.
00;29;24;20 - 00;29;26;23
Jennifer
Right? Family? no.
00;29;26;23 - 00;29;28;27
Tom
No no no no no, just my kids.
00;29;29;00 - 00;29;39;19
Jennifer
But yeah, yeah, I love I understand, thank you. what would you like to scold yourself about?
00;29;39;22 - 00;30;02;04
Tom
My weight exercise. I, I just, I can't I get up really early in the morning and I'll meditate and I'll have the red light on, and I'll read and I'll work, and I'll walk the damn dog. I've got work, but I don't. I can't get my I got peloton sitting there and it's, there's like Kryptonite and I can't get there.
00;30;02;05 - 00;30;12;02
Jennifer
Give yourself grace there to make sure. And that's my, my advice for all CEOs and leaders. give yourself grace. We've been through a lot lately.
00;30;12;05 - 00;30;25;11
Tom
And, no, I'm, I all my, people always go, you're not lazy. You work and I go, yes, but when I leave this, I there. I'm a little bit of a run by the log sometimes.
00;30;25;14 - 00;30;32;26
Jennifer
but last but not least, how do you define happiness?
00;30;32;29 - 00;30;59;08
Tom
I think that happiness is like art. It's in the eye of the beholder. And I think that there's too much of it being wide net of what it should be for everybody. And I think that if you're, you know, a quasi workaholic and that makes you happy, God bless you. I think if you're happy not doing that and making less money, God bless you.
00;30;59;08 - 00;31;15;01
Tom
And I think that if you, you know, I just think you've got to find it. And I think that happiness is, is, you know, my my dad brought me home a poster when I was a kid. I think one of his customers gave it to him for free, but he brought it home and it said success is not a destination, but a journey.
00;31;15;04 - 00;31;37;00
Tom
And I think if you changed it today, it would be happiness is not a destination but a journey. And I think people want it to be all the time and without sadness you don't really know true happiness. And I tell my kids that all the time, and I have moments of sadness and wishing things were different. But I'll tell you what, I sure is like knowing I'm happy and I know how to celebrate and have fun.
00;31;37;00 - 00;31;39;10
Tom
And I'll take it, I like it.
00;31;39;13 - 00;31;52;26
Jennifer
Yeah. That's wonderful, I could and something recently that reminded me, jobs as leaders that, it's not our job to make our employees happy. It's our job to make them better.
00;31;52;28 - 00;32;26;17
Tom
I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that the number one thing, it's it's every individual is responsible for their own happiness. Right? As a leader, the question is, can we show people what they can achieve? And I'm a firm believer that when you accomplish something that's hard, you feel good. And, you know, all kidding aside about working out, when I do work out, even when I do a, you know, lazy man's workout for 20 minutes on the bike, I feel better.
00;32;26;19 - 00;32;27;15
Jennifer
You do. And yeah.
00;32;27;23 - 00;32;46;08
Tom
And I know that when I come to work and I do hard good work, I feel better. When we win and we grow, I feel better and I know that our people do too. And sometimes they don't want to work hard. And there this isn't the right place and they lead. But it's no different than somebody on a sports team saying, I don't want to work this hard to quit.
00;32;46;11 - 00;33;01;07
Tom
It's not for everybody, and it's also not for everybody. Jennifer, at that moment in time, you're you cannot it cannot be right for you today and it can be right for you in five years from now and today.
00;33;01;10 - 00;33;22;22
Jennifer
Well thank you, Tom. It's still wonderful having you and, you just incredible thought process processes that you have and all the good that you do for your culture, your team and for the industry and sharing your industry knowledge with us. congratulations on on all of your success and keep shining brightly, my friend.
00;33;22;24 - 00;33;39;23
Tom
Well, thank you so much for having me out and having me tell you tell our story and and my story. And, thanks for the recognition we've gotten from being on your. As I know it's our employee surveys that get us the recognition, but you put together the the group. So thank you for what you do and best to you and your family.
00;33;39;25 - 00;33;42;17
Jennifer
thank you to the. Bye, everybody. Thank you.