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And then there were 4! Let's welcome CHARLES COATS as a permanent member of the team this week AND let's talk about GETTING PAID... which we ALL love the sound of. In our journeys we have all reached the point of "NO MORE CHEAP OUTS" and today we cover HOW to negotiate better for MORE and NEVER leave the money on the table... or as Charles says STOP STEPPING OVER HUNDREDS TO GET 5's!!!
Let's go!! Get some PODCAST SWAG HERE and show your support for ANOTHER VO PODCAST!!!
Let's go!! Get some PODCAST SWAG HERE and show your support for ANOTHER VO PODCAST!!!
Creators and Guests
Host
Charles H. Coats II (aka) Charles The Voice
Meet Charles, the voiceover virtuoso who embarked on his journey into the world of voiceover four years ago and hasn't looked back since! With a heart as happy as his voice is versatile, Charles is the epitome of easygoing professionalism. His love for making connections extends beyond the mic, as he's the go-to guy for national commercial spots, having lent his voice to big names like Valvoline, Mini Cooper, AppleTV+, and more. From Peloton to Caterpillar, Charles's voice resonates with audiences far and wide. When he's not behind the mic, you'll find Charles cruising in his beloved Jeep, exploring the great outdoors with his loyal companion, Levi the Great Dane, by his side. And let's not forget his favorite travel partner – his wife! Equipped with a top-notch home studio, Charles pours his passion and love into every project, delivering reads that truly connect with clients' target audiences. So why worry about the talkin' when you've got Charles on your team? Let him work his magic and bring your message directly to the hearts and minds of your audience!
What is Another VO Podcast!?
REALLY???? Another VO Podcast??? This one is focusing on the business side and the mental health side of VO from the perspective of four guys who are at different stages of their careers and are accountable to each other daily. Jake Sanders, CHarles Coats and Alden Schoeneberg are joined by Troy Holden and they discuss marketing, accountability, staying focused, rejection, branding, email strategy, casting sites and more by sharing THEIR issues, successes, problems and how they are staying sane trying to make their living in VO.
00:01.26
Jake
Hey howdy hey it's Jake with ah Troy Alden and our guy in the field who's now going to be a regular member of our podcast charles da voice coats guys how you doing today. Good good good. Well okay, that's okay.
00:11.34
Charles H_ Coats II
Awesome! awesome.
00:11.67
Alden
Um, yeah, it are you already feels like Charles is one of us I mean it's it's a weird. no no I'm ah that's true. That's true.
00:13.96
volife
Good. Yeah, he's been one for a while but but the good thing will 4 of us now if 1 of us wants to take a week off nobody will miss 1 of us so we can one of us can you know be nice.
00:20.12
Jake
Let's clarify that real quick charles is one of us. But that's true. That's true depending on who it is I imagine if I took a week off people would probably stop listening. But yeah I know everyone knows they come here to hear everyone harp on me and and and whatnot.
00:22.15
Charles H_ Coats II
Like oh it just feels like at home.
00:29.62
Alden
Yeah, yeah.
00:32.57
volife
Yeah, that wouldn't go well.
00:34.80
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, yeah.
00:38.26
Alden
Ah, well we we need to put that in the title so they know upfront. No Jake right? Yeah, oh you're not yeah, skipping that one where well we've added another V a to another V o.
00:38.78
Jake
Ah, no Jake right? So yeah, so if you see no jake in the title you're good to skip. It's the jake break. Oh I like that? Yeah ooh.
00:39.18
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah.
00:45.79
Charles H_ Coats II
We've only had 2 lessons this episode so I don't know why and Jake wasn't there. Nice. Ah.
00:47.64
volife
Ah, it's the Jake break.
00:55.20
Jake
I like that I don't know is that that's not patented right like their VA for v o stuff. Ok wo ok, good all right? Well anyway guys what's up as I already asked how y'all are doing everyone said good. The no harm no foul there. It is a busy week. Yeah yeah, wait even what.
00:55.98
Alden
Yeah, no, no, no.
01:04.90
Alden
Busy week busy week. Yeah I've been I've been humping it man getting a lot of stuff done humping it. You know you haven't heard that before Troy help me out come on, get get her done. Ah.
01:05.17
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, busy lot of negotiating this week it. Yeah I yeah you getting her down.
01:15.27
Jake
Um, I mean I've heard it before but I don't talk about it. Ok well it must be like a Kansas certain Nashville thing. Ok cool deal. Yeah m.
01:18.20
volife
He's getting. He's getting her done. That's what he's saying and he's getting her done. That's an eighty s thing you know he's doing the humpty hop do to humy hump but to humpty hump.
01:25.96
Alden
Ah, yeah, come on all the Gen Xers out there know what I'm saying.
01:28.80
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, I thought that was just a natural normal snailing. Yeah.
01:33.30
Jake
Yeah, oh yeah I know that song. Yeah well anyway, got I know like that this is not the voiceover podcast. Yeah.
01:34.46
Charles H_ Coats II
Come I want to do the home people are gonna be listening this episode. We like what is happening right now with this episode.
01:35.71
volife
Come on due to humpty hump.
01:37.78
Alden
Ah, ah, what is it? What? what is this podcast. We already started troy.
01:40.68
volife
Hey hey, hey hey before hey before we get started I Want to throw something at you guys and see if you guys can get any anywhere close to this thing but we're we're gonna get into the real subject and we used to do these more. But here's one real quick.
01:49.42
Jake
And we did the intro.
01:55.95
volife
What percentage of homes. Do you feel like in the United States still have a lamb line phone. What percentage Alden Alden yeah yeah what percentage just throw a number charles.
02:01.86
Charles H_ Coats II
A landline.
02:02.34
Jake
Ah, oh sorry you said Alden sorry.
02:06.23
Alden
Me oh man I'm going to go under 25% maybe 4025 some of them in the range $1 um come on.
02:12.91
Charles H_ Coats II
$1 Bob ah no I would I would I think alin held and shes Louis Alden's pretty close I did I mastered as not just Troy yeah, um I would say it's under 20 under 24%
02:16.47
Jake
Yeah, so you too doug Oh my gosh. Yeah.
02:18.98
volife
Yay! It's not just me.
02:21.43
Alden
You lose.
02:27.24
volife
Okay, Jake.
02:29.20
Alden
Um, and.
02:29.77
Jake
Know. Okay, obviously a fan of the price is right I'm going to say under 24.1 no um I think it's like 13% it is something like that.
02:31.10
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
02:39.55
volife
Yes, it's it was staggering to me 27% still have a landline but um, here's here's the one here are the 2 stats that threw me the most the percent that have a landline and no cell phone.
02:41.30
Jake
Okay.
02:53.62
Charles H_ Coats II
Oh.
02:56.94
Alden
Um, oh my.
02:57.32
volife
2% only 2% of the people have a landline and no cell phone only 1% only one percent in the United States have neither is that not crazy. So that means that.
03:05.28
Alden
Um, wow.
03:09.79
Alden
Okay.
03:10.75
Charles H_ Coats II
Wow.
03:11.21
Jake
Those must be the amish and.
03:14.90
volife
You know 30 34% of homeowners still have a landline out of that 34% here's here this is where it gets old foy 75% of those are over the age of 75 so the older people are hanging onto those landlines only 5%
03:24.92
Charles H_ Coats II
Oh I could see that.
03:26.90
Alden
Um, yeah me up e.
03:32.94
volife
Are under the age of 25 that's way down there all right and we talked about this the other day so you guys already know this but the number one city for landlines in the country which really threw me off Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and most of those are 55 or older that have a landline.
03:34.32
Alden
Wow e.
03:45.24
Jake
Wow! yeah.
03:46.59
Alden
Yeah.
03:52.80
volife
Isn't that crazy how things have changed and and I say that because we talk about how technology changes with voiceover and how it's changed in the last several years and they don't go the studio anymore well look at this and then I posted today on Linkedin do you guys and and Jake probably did this too. We used to have to go pull encyclopedias to do things at school.
04:09.22
Alden
Oh yeah, yep yep.
04:11.19
volife
To do but to do reports and research and whatever it was go get the world book or go get the Britannica or whatever and and you had to go get an encyclopedia. There was no fricking get on the internet or nothing everything we did was manual.
04:11.39
Charles H_ Coats II
Dude I East World book. Yep yep.
04:14.59
Jake
Yeah, yeah, world book. Yeah yeah.
04:22.29
Alden
Yeah.
04:24.28
volife
Think about that in today's world if you had to run your V o business the way we did things in school back then holy crap. Oh my god what? yeah.
04:30.76
Jake
There'd be a lot less competition. Ah, it'd be tougher but a lot less competition if that really put in the work screwdriver.
04:33.43
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, it'd be a lot tougher and um, if you it would be a lot less complicated I mean I mean think about a do.
04:39.27
volife
And I was thinking what tools could I do without right now. What are these tools could I do without and still run a successful business none of them I'd never you'd never make it.
04:45.70
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah, just I mean just think when's the last time you used a phone book.
04:45.85
Alden
E Yeah yeah.
04:46.75
Jake
Right? right? right.
04:51.47
volife
Yeah I throw them away. We still get them and and as soon as they come in I pitch em I don't need that I got Google I don't need a phone book.
04:55.55
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah I mean that's yeah I mean Google you just go on Google type in the thing and.
04:59.47
Alden
Um, hey listen in the 70 s and eighty s we used microish machines in our library. You remember that Troy right Charles Jake you ever use a micro fish machine micro fish reader you know what? that is you know what? that is yeah.
05:05.36
volife
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and the ah the cards you remember the the dewey decimal card system. Yeah yeah, you'd search newspaper articles and stuff. Yeah I did that in college.
05:06.32
Charles H_ Coats II
The dewey decimal the dewey decimal system.
05:11.67
Jake
I A micro fish a micro fish. Um I mean we had oh no, then oh yeah, I've seen them I've seen them. No right right? No and yeah, but then you blow it up.
05:17.88
Alden
Yeah, so you wouldn't so they wouldn't store newspapers in the library they put it all on this film and they were like super super small. Yeah pelican brief.
05:22.34
volife
I think you you remember the the movie with with ah the Denzel Denzel and Julia Roberts movie and they were in the library researching the newspaper the pelican briefing yeah and they were scrolling through.
05:30.21
Jake
Um, yeah, yeah, they did it and it they did it and they did it in ah stranger things. Yeah I've seen it I've just never had to use 1
05:30.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, pretty woman. Yeah, pretty woman right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
05:34.59
Alden
It's pretty. It's not pretty.
05:38.23
volife
But they were scrolling through all that stuff looking for him. Yeah, we used to do that and get information you know because and and and kids anymore too. They don't do book reports. We had to do stupid book reports. Did you guys have to do those. You had to read the book and report on the but oh my god.
05:48.30
Charles H_ Coats II
I Love I Loved my entire I Loved my world Book Encyclopedias I Loved him.
05:48.54
Jake
Oh man, not a book report but like an article report.
05:48.90
Alden
I did I did? Yeah yeah, my first my first voiceover job was a book report in the sixth grade our sixth grade teacher had us present our book reports. We recorded it into our.
06:00.94
Jake
It was reading the dictionary.
06:04.10
volife
Um, yeah.
06:07.80
Alden
Ah, you know Cassette Tape recorder as if we were on a radio show. You know we were radio radio deejay promoting our art book. Yeah, that's kind of fun. Yeah, but there was a lot of rabbit there.
06:11.69
Charles H_ Coats II
No, that's cool.
06:12.40
volife
Yeah, that's cool. Well well i' so I'm sorry to side track us. But I thought that was that was interesting or it went but hey Jake it's Jake show. Let's let Jake take over. Ah.
06:16.62
Jake
That's interesting. It's interesting. Yeah, what the heck well real quick before we do actually did you just say toy.
06:24.63
Charles H_ Coats II
I'm glad you thought it was interesting toy. Yeah yeah, Alden Toy and and jerk. Ah.
06:29.69
volife
Yeah, it's toy and Alden and juke a jerk I'm the millennial jerk.
06:31.22
Alden
To Toy Toy Toy ah Jack Jerk hey Jack Wagon I mean Jake Sanders
06:31.45
Jake
To toy and Ho and and juke. Yeah okay, welcome to a new and jerk. Yeah, a jerk that's me no real quick. Okay, before.
06:42.60
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
06:43.24
Jake
Before we get into our real topic. We did have an email that came in over the holidays and guys this is really I think our first podcast we've recorded in a long time that is just us and not and not have a guest on. Don't get me wrong. We've had we like having these guests on but but we really want to get back to you know why we start this in the first place and it was just us talking about voiceover. But.
06:48.70
volife
Um, ah yeah, yeah, it's been a while.
06:50.29
Alden
Yeah, yeah, right? b.
07:02.64
Jake
Ah, we had beau sheldon right in he said Jake hi maybe touch on doing video demos Troy's been messing around with doing them I think he was well he said Troy's been messing around with doing them I think I have wondershare in filmmora. Not even sure what wonderhare does fair use definition can I clip snippets of other history. Youtube videos to confab my own as long as I'm not making money only demonstrate only demonstration purposes only on website are you able to get clips from other Youtube videos. Um I think what he's asking is like how can I use videos and like should I I think you know what is it? Okay to have a video demo do i. I don't have a video demo at least I didn't and then ah Charles is kind of putting one together for me. Ah, for this workshop we're running but other than that I mean like I don't I don't have 1 um, ah me personally I think audio demos are just fine I understand the importance of having ah a video demo if you so choose. But I don't necessarily think they're necessary. Do you guys want to chime in on this I don't have any.
07:44.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, and.
08:00.22
Jake
Kind of you know input. Other than that.
08:00.33
Charles H_ Coats II
For me I Love to see the whole thing together see how the voice works with you know and and that's just my thinking So that's why I made a video demo Um, and.
08:06.78
Jake
Um, yeah.
08:07.37
Alden
Yeah, yeah, a.
08:14.87
Jake
Sure.
08:17.99
Charles H_ Coats II
When I did my demo with Chuck Duran he kind of coached me on this is where you can say click here for my video demo because it just sometimes it just paints it. Yeah, it just paints a bigger picture for the client.
08:27.18
Jake
Um, like on your website.
08:32.88
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, if they just want the voice they can click the voice but they can also kind of see how it all works together. You know so.
08:36.69
Jake
Um, yeah, that makes sense I mean that's why I have samples though.
08:37.48
volife
Yeah I agree a visual a visual is a big selling tool. It is a good selling tool. You just got to be careful because you know Rob sigegel and Poglia talked about a few episodes ago that that video's high risk. You don't want to go out and copy an exact.
08:41.13
Alden
Yeah, it is It is right? He it is.
08:43.50
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
08:49.78
Charles H_ Coats II
Me m.
08:50.00
Jake
You right in.
08:54.99
volife
Ad you should use stock footage. You can find footage of certain brands or certain things and and get snippets but do not copy just don't don't do that as we said in that 1 episode. Don't do that.
09:08.78
Jake
Don't do that. Well I mean okay so like let's touch in there I mean like so he was asking about like can I use other history videos to fit in there I mean I guess as long as it's not like copywritten or whatever I don't I don't know I mean you just got to be careful about what you use for your video demo. It sounds like.
09:20.40
volife
Yeah, and use the the disclaimer I think it's smart to put a disclaimer somewhere in there saying this is just for demonstration Only you know now I am a believer in taking your actual spots and making a video sampler. Heck yeah.
09:29.20
Alden
Um, yeah.
09:36.86
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
09:37.44
volife
If you've booked things that are video wise and they're worth it. Heck yeah, but when you're just making things be careful with that stock footage is the way to go if you can as as most as you can, but just be careful. Yeah.
09:37.79
Alden
Um, yeah.
09:44.43
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah, and that's and that's for like your real right? because you have your demo your pro demo and then you have a real that you send out. Um and a real is of the real work that you did and ah.
09:46.16
Jake
So.
09:54.78
volife
Yeah.
09:59.12
Alden
Um, yep.
09:59.72
Charles H_ Coats II
Like mine is going to be coming I made it but I can't play it because there's one clip in there that hasn't been put out yet and that comes out in February on February first so then once it's out I can put mine out because if mine is.
10:06.99
volife
Yeah, yeah.
10:07.13
Alden
Not public yet.
10:15.30
Alden
Ah, this won't air until like February Tenth Ninth february Ninth right some like that. Yeah, so whatever that Friday is whatever that Friday is yeah I and I I like on my Youtube.
10:18.80
Charles H_ Coats II
Okay, gotcha. Yeah, perfect.
10:18.88
Jake
Something like that. Yeah or eighth. Oh no, you're right ninth? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:30.49
Alden
Ah, channel I don't do a lot I I need to do more on my Youtube channel but I do have a ah playlist of you know work that I've found that people have posted. That's that's my work and so I keep that playlist and I have that on my website so people can see a thread of that and I try to.
10:40.86
Jake
Yeah, same here.
10:42.20
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
10:48.40
Alden
You know, shuffle so that the newer stuff is at the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so be sure and ask be sure and ask for the result when it's done. You know from the producer.
10:48.75
Charles H_ Coats II
Sure.
10:49.54
Jake
Yeah, that's why I have the samples page like which is it's just it's and it's just jobs of of it's just a page full of stuff that I've found like like you on Youtube but it's just on my website versus you know I'm going to playlist on Youtube.
10:49.60
volife
Yeah, and I'm her I've heard of. Yeah yeah.
11:01.36
volife
Right? And and I've heard people right? Go God That's such a pain I've had people. Um I've had people say well I've had stuff up and it's It's a you know it's an actual ad and nobody's ever said any? well they may not but why risk that.
11:02.93
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
11:04.19
Jake
Oh I try but they don't always people don't always give it to you.
11:06.75
Alden
Yeah, no, they don't always.
11:19.19
volife
Why why get you know and well all they're Goingnna do is just tell me to take it down. Maybe but why risk it they could they could go after you who knows it because yeah well I'm not making any money on it and as Rob said in the podcast that's not going to get you out of it if you go to court. It's not. there's there's no
11:21.78
Charles H_ Coats II
Maybe first.
11:25.47
Alden
Um, yeah, a sure.
11:33.24
Jake
Right.
11:35.50
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep.
11:36.77
volife
Quote Unquote fair use of that video because it's owned somebody owns that it's copyrighted so just don't don't do that. Don't do that? Yeah and and really unless there's some benefit as to having a video you know what is the real benefit is it. You know.
11:38.34
Alden
Right? yep. They paid for the exclusive rights to broadcast that somewhere.
11:43.00
Jake
Right? I won't do that. Yeah.
11:44.97
Charles H_ Coats II
And.
11:54.33
Alden
Um, yeah.
11:55.35
volife
Yeah.
11:55.35
Jake
Yeah, that's what I'm saying I mean like if you have if you have like some samples of like completed jobs you do and then you also have audio demos I mean people can find I mean just make it easily you know, easily found on your website other than not I really don't necessarily see the the point of having a ah video demo at least for me I mean like if you want to have 1 fine put one together.
12:02.73
volife
Um, yeah.
12:09.23
volife
No, and it was a push. It was a push a few years ago. We used to hear it all the time and charles and I kind of started at the same time and we were under the quote unquote tutelage of some people who were just pushing it. You need to get video. You got to get video. It's more visual it says this? yeah.
12:13.70
Jake
Yeah.
12:16.10
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
12:22.23
Alden
Yeah yep I remember that too.
12:26.66
Jake
Was it Nixon. Yeah you get over the old demo. Ah um.
12:28.32
volife
Na my fellow Americans let's go radio Artscar now. Ah right? I Yeah but now.
12:29.23
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, yeah.
12:29.62
Alden
Ah I tried I tried I will say I will say because I'm surprised at how few people understand and know what this video is for kids does for them or does work against them if you're sure if you want to put a video on your as a demo. And you're hosting it on Youtube Mark that this is not for kids because if you markets for kids you can't share it people can't share it right? So got to do that it is it is I know.
12:52.22
volife
Yeah, yeah, that'll get you in trouble. Ah right, It's tricky on there. You got to watch that. Yeah yeah.
12:56.13
Jake
Oh that's such a confusing thing because it's like it's not not for kids. It's because it's not like inappropriate but at the same time you're like way to tag it.
12:57.10
Charles H_ Coats II
Island murmur.
13:05.38
volife
Yeah I think and and I don't know what he was referring to in the email but I know and I use Filmora wonderhare I like it I mean they're all real similar. You just cut drop stuff in yeah it it is and you can you can split the.
13:06.38
Alden
I know I know it is.
13:07.74
Charles H_ Coats II
It's not really for kids though.
13:15.40
Jake
Um, is that like just some kind of editing software. Oh well. Then I think any editing software work for you.
13:21.21
volife
It it does it all works and you can split the audio off if you wanted to save the MPThree and blah blah blah but I have used it mainly for animation stuff and video game stuff because those are the things I have clips of so I have built some animation video game clips.
13:23.20
Alden
Um.
13:24.58
Jake
Yeah, oh yeah.
13:30.74
Charles H_ Coats II
Me.
13:36.35
volife
In there. But there's probably some stuff still hanging on my Youtube channel I'm glad we brought this up I probably need to go delete some stuff. It could be in violation because I did it two and a half years ago three years ago so I may go delete those today. Thanks for that information. So.
13:36.52
Alden
Um.
13:42.50
Jake
So.
13:46.25
Alden
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:48.66
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep, know you and I do all my stuff on. Um I movie say's Mac him.
13:50.44
Jake
And now. Right? there you go well beau I hope that answers your question and I encourage anyone who has questions like beau to ride into another v. Podcast at Gmail.com and it didn't even have to be a question. It could be you know a thought you had and you'd want to share it with us or whatever. We'd love hearing from you guys and we love having new things to talk about, especially if it's from our audience because we want to engage with them. Yeah to an extent. Um I mean you're not going to my will or anything but I'm also 34 so probably a while before I need one anyway.
14:13.87
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
14:15.90
volife
We love you.
14:25.59
Alden
Ah, never know.
14:25.63
volife
Rub it in buddy rub it in hi.
14:25.80
Jake
Ah, yeah, so yeah, just write us at another ve o podcast. Yeah I know I'll probably be here a while won't I guys. Anyway, let's get into the real topic today guys we are guys in vo and I think it's an important topic breaking wind in your booth is it? Okay no I'm just I'm just kidding. No I apologize. No, we're gonna talk. We're going to touch.
14:41.29
Charles H_ Coats II
Is there proper ventilation and.
14:43.53
volife
Ah, no, ah oh.
14:45.40
Jake
Yeah, do you have proper ventilation. No, we're going to talk about rates and and the reason we're talking about rates and I know we've done an episode on this but but we've so've in our group lately. We've seen um a couple guys charles and Alden specifically kind of standin their ground on their rates.
14:46.54
Alden
Ah.
14:59.76
Jake
And in 1 situation it's worked out and in the other situation. Not so much. But at the end of the day you know not a big loss on our side because we know our worth and we want to get paid our worth and we encourage you guys to know your worth and to get paid and try to get paid your worth so anyway.
15:09.12
volife
Yep.
15:14.60
Jake
Something we've run into and what I've seen. Um, we're going to touch with Charles first is Charles. You've had you've had a couple jobs come in recently I say a couple jobs like you're not booking all the time. Um, and ah some of the rates they initially offered were kind of low but you were kind of like yeah, that's not quite where I'm at and then you kind of went back and forth with them. So. Go into more detail in it and give give the listeners an idea of what we're talking about just so they kind of can get an idea of what they can do for themselves to get better rates for their projects.
15:41.51
Charles H_ Coats II
Sure sure um I think that you know we want to make money right? We want to book jobs and sometimes that want or need overpowers.
15:48.61
Jake
So.
15:58.89
Jake
So.
15:59.45
Charles H_ Coats II
What you're worth and so I got an email from a client that had worked with me before the same the same company but it was a different person and they were like hey we have this spot. It's a ninety second or a ninety second spot and ah the contracts attached. And if we can do it. You know our our budget is this and let us know all right? We'd love to work with you again and so I actually already started writing the email like hey good to see you again. I worked with soand so before blah blah blah this and that and the other thing and I wrote my whole email out. Okay I can get it all. Done for you today and then I looked at the contract and when I looked at the contract it said ah ninety second blah blah blah ah full buyout and I was like what like no no number one buy out. No, right um.
16:51.43
Jake
No.
16:57.92
Jake
Cyber snorting.
16:58.67
Charles H_ Coats II
And so when I when I looked when I when I looked at what I did before it was for a two week usage right? for two weeks it was like four hundred and fifty dollars but it's's it. It's a big company name. So so was like okay I want that logo.
17:00.56
Alden
Ah.
17:00.78
volife
Um.
17:17.69
Charles H_ Coats II
On my client list right? So I did it for that price and it was for it was non-broadcast and the usage was the usage was it was a little it was under what it should have been um and it was four hundred and forty five dollars so this one was also $445 and for full buyout and so those things going in my head like okay like do I ruin this relationship if I come back with a higher price I'm going to ruin this relationship with this client. They're going to be like oh look at him. He's spiking up the prices on us. Well he did it for this last time.
17:47.10
Alden
A.
17:48.34
Jake
So.
17:56.58
Charles H_ Coats II
And so that was one like the little Angels and devil that pop up on your shoulders. You know that was one it was like poof hey they're going to think you're acumbball and you're jacking up the rates on them and this and that and the other thing and you should just do it and keep that relationship because they're going to bring you more work and blah blah blah then this other one came up and he was like a little accountant and he had like tape on his glasses and a little.
18:00.17
volife
And.
18:15.84
Charles H_ Coats II
Clipboard and calculator and he is like Charles. Um, you know I've been calculating this and that is a no-go. Don't do it but be nice to them and and I think this is the key when you when people say oh no, you're worth right? It's like just have confidence. In yourself know that you you know, present yourself as a professional ah be cordial right? and show that you're you're still interested right? So I wrote them back and I was like for because they had no terms. Inside right? How it was going to be used or anything on the contract and I said ah non-broadcast or broadcast national um would be would be for this spot for 1 year would be like it was like 1300 to or 1500 to $1800 and.
18:53.19
Jake
Sure.
19:07.88
Jake
So.
19:10.56
Charles H_ Coats II
1 year national with major markets would be like 2300 to $3800 and I was like I see that you have full buyout in perpetuity on there and I was like I I can't do that right? Where number one I can't do the full buyout in perpetuity. Um, and I was like and.
19:23.89
Jake
It's not for me right.
19:30.33
Charles H_ Coats II
We're way too far apart on our budgets I was like I'm willing to work with you. Ah, what's your match. What's your max budget for this for this for this project. Um, hope to hope to chat with you soon right? and she emailed me back. It was like an hour or so later and she's like. Oh yeah, it's the terms are not that it's not a full buyout right? and I was like okay well it's said full it was typed in full buyout because you know how like when you get a contract sometimes it's like everything's the same. But then you can see the they just change the dollar amount in the whoever the the artist is and whatever.
19:53.69
Jake
Then why did it say that though, that's yeah.
20:01.83
Alden
Yeah.
20:03.47
volife
Yeah, yeah.
20:05.87
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
20:08.25
Charles H_ Coats II
And so that was That's what it was on there right? and so she's like oh it's it's it's actually and she goes Oh that's my mistake. It's not for a full buyout. It's for yeah, well no I don't think so I think it's I.
20:16.10
Jake
So they reused a contract essentially from somebody else. Oh really? yeah.
20:20.13
volife
Maybe it was trying to shy stuff. Charles is what they were doing.
20:25.81
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, yeah I think they're probably now so used to everybody just being like Okay yeah, we'll do it for the full buyout that they just put that because if nobody if nobody complains about it then nobody's gonna okay well we got all the rights to it great right? And so she's like yeah, it's for it's.
20:31.83
Jake
Which is crazy who's out there doing that.
20:36.50
Alden
Um, yep, yep.
20:43.96
Charles H_ Coats II
For two months usage a non-broadcast. It's going to be on the company website on the company. Whatever and in-store monitors for the storefronts and and they said and we're actually only going to use it for two weeks for the sale. It just might be run a little longer on the websites and I was like okay.
20:58.68
Jake
I.
21:03.76
Charles H_ Coats II
And I was like looking at that. Um, looking at gva I was like it came out to around 8 ah 808 hundred bucks and so I said um normally I would charge $800 for this. Us right? because they they were talking in c a d and canadian dollars and I was like it's going to be us ah 800 I was like I'm willing to go to I'm willing to go to us 700 right? which is still a big jump from four forty five to 700 right.
21:21.56
Jake
Oh okay, yeah I didn't even realize that.
21:32.44
Jake
Oh.
21:36.57
Charles H_ Coats II
And but it was fair for me and it would be a fair price for them and they're like ah hey appreciate it. We're gonna send it off to the client and we'll we'll see and right before this podcast I got a message from her and she's like thumbs up clients good with 700 um and.
21:39.42
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
21:55.86
Jake
Nice.
21:56.47
Charles H_ Coats II
Let's move forward. So just by me writing them and telling them and engaging them and wanting to still work with them right? and and knowing my worth I Just saved that much money.
22:00.86
Jake
Engaging with them.
22:12.70
Jake
Right.
22:15.24
Charles H_ Coats II
What four forty five five six so so two hundred and fifty five dollars I just made that this was like money that I could have lost or if I look at it money that I've gained right and I still have the client. Yeah yeah, ah yeah I would have left it on the table and.
22:24.33
Jake
Right? so.
22:24.61
volife
Or as I've heard said a lot of times I left that on the table and I shouldn't have. Yeah yeah.
22:30.24
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
22:34.21
Charles H_ Coats II
I Still have the client I think now that they they have spoken to me. They know that Okay, he's he's in tune about rates and this and that so he's a professional. He knows what he's doing right? He's willing to work with us. He's still. It's still a good relationship and everybody's happy. Great.
22:46.47
Jake
Yep.
22:52.96
Charles H_ Coats II
Right? So I mean that's just ah, it's a prime example of standing your your ground right? standing being true to the rates that are out there you know and there's a lot of different situations I mean when I first started man I was doing crazy crazy amounts of work for nothing.
22:58.12
Alden
Yeah, you.
23:12.70
Charles H_ Coats II
But I mean literally pretty much nothing and you know I chalked that to experience it got my chops. It helped me learn how to negotiate it helped me in a lot of ways. But you know there was somebody That's like yeah what was it somebody's like I want to I Want to start I'm starting up from scratch but I need to make.
23:19.75
Alden
In a.
23:32.57
Charles H_ Coats II
Like $20000 this month and can you guys give me some help. Yeah I mean it's it's not yeah, it's not going to happen. You know what I mean and so and and here's the thing also like I can't knock anybody's situation because I've literally been in the spectrum of those situations where like.
23:34.43
Jake
Oh you talk about that post the other day. Yeah I was going to get to that. But there's a couple of posts I seen lately that I want to bring up.
23:36.30
volife
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:41.22
Alden
Ah, right right? yeah.
23:47.22
Jake
Right? Of course.
23:52.44
Charles H_ Coats II
I will do whatever I can to make ten twenty dollars because I just need money right? but there's gonna be a point where when you're in this and you're starting to get a lot of work and you're and you're getting bigger and better jobs that you're gonna it's.
23:57.33
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
24:11.60
Charles H_ Coats II
You have to bring out those negotiation chops. Yeah, you have to draw that line and then here's the thing. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
24:11.16
volife
Draw that line baby. Yeah.
24:12.68
Jake
And you have to be familiar with how it's broken down too so you can explain to them like and stand so you so help you stand your ground but like and make them help them understand because a lot of times they don't understand where these rates are coming from or they don't understand like well why am I paying this. It's like well you got to break it down. You got to look at.
24:15.90
Alden
Um.
24:18.66
Alden
Yeah.
24:21.59
volife
Right? right.
24:31.40
Jake
How many videos do the usage of it. The length of the usage. Um, sometimes if you want to incorporate sessions fees if you're if you like to incorporate sessions fees with that like when you break it down one. It does like you mentioned it shows that you're a professional. You know what? you're talking about and 2 it shows that like you know you're not someone that's going to be you know, taking advantage of.
24:36.23
Alden
Um, yeah.
24:37.27
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
24:44.70
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, you're not going to roll me over dude you know what? I mean? yep.
24:46.80
volife
Right? right? right? right? The hardest ones are the ones that come back that you did two years ago or a year and a half ago and you have really and I know that's I've run into that a couple times I've really increased.
24:48.36
Jake
Right? exactly.
24:50.89
Alden
Um, yep.
24:54.48
Charles H_ Coats II
25:01.76
volife
You know over the past couple years. So if somebody I hadn't heard from in a couple years and I actually had one yesterday that was from early last year that I was doing some narration stuff for and and I um went back and I took the job I recorded the job. I went I went to invoice it and I thought crap it's been a long time I looked it up I said holy crap I did it for that. Really that much and so what I did was because we didn't negotiate on the front end I sent him the thing I sent him the invoice for the old amount and I let him know anything going forward.
25:25.89
Charles H_ Coats II
Ehe ehu.
25:27.15
Alden
Ah.
25:29.41
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
25:37.51
volife
Um, a grandfather gen on this one but anything else you order after today is going to be at this rate and it wasn't anything crazy. This was like an e-learning thing where you're talking about. Let's just say the difference in fifteen cents and twenty five cents a word. Yeah, it's it's quite a bit. There's a lot of words. But.
25:41.72
Jake
Right.
25:41.94
Alden
Yeah.
25:43.92
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
25:50.12
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
25:54.96
volife
For them to look at it and go oh he's one up to twenty five cents I don't know you know that's up to them that's fine I'm okay with that if they don't come back. They don't come back I'm good. Yeah.
25:56.92
Charles H_ Coats II
Here maybe.
26:00.55
Alden
Um, right? Yeah, that's that's a good practice though because you're giving them the chance to budget for it in the next project. This project may have already had the budget secured. You know.
26:01.20
Jake
Right? And that's just it is what it is.
26:08.54
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, that's a good way. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it.
26:10.20
volife
Yeah, yeah, and and that was one of those things that we didn't have anything going on. He was used to he would send me the script and email and I would knock it out and bill him and I went right through the same thing and then I then um then I realized.
26:15.69
Alden
Right.
26:21.50
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
26:25.60
volife
I didn't realize it'd been that long and then when I start looking back for an invoice to mirror I'm like holy smoke I'm going all way back to January of last year it's been a year and I don't charge that anymore I can't do it for that anymore and.
26:30.44
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah.
26:34.66
Alden
Um, right.
26:38.40
volife
You know so far though and I don't know Charles you you may have run into one that you've lost. But so far with the ones now this guy may fall off but the people that I have told that to or sent them a new thing like in January and actually this year I said I'm going to wait till February I'm going to let January run its course and then in February I'm sending out this. Sheet to this handful of people who are used to getting this rate and saying it's going to this you know but have you had any come back and say man you're crazy I can't do that. That's double or that's this or that or yeah.
27:00.71
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
27:00.93
Jake
Yeah.
27:08.46
Charles H_ Coats II
I've never had anybody come back like aggressive um I have had people come back that are like oh I just I can't do it for that much and we've parted ways and I've had people that have come back and like oh man we can't We can't do it for that much.
27:16.11
Jake
So.
27:18.46
volife
Um, yeah.
27:26.10
Charles H_ Coats II
And then they talked to whoever they needed talk to and all of a sudden they're like hey I got it approved right.
27:30.26
volife
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:31.63
Alden
Ah, yeah e.
27:31.70
Jake
Yeah I mean and that just goes to show you that they really value you as like ah and and what in your capabilities as a voice actor and.
27:37.24
Charles H_ Coats II
And that's why I think it's so important to have a good relationship with whoever you're in communications with because guess what now it's not oh, it's a voice actor that that we use before they want to increase rates can we increase it to this rate. Okay, great. Yeah, we could. It's.
27:42.30
Jake
Oh it's 100% so
27:42.56
Alden
Yeah, oh yeah.
27:56.67
Charles H_ Coats II
When they go to them and be like hey I've worked with this guy for a long time. He's a really great guy. You know we have a really good working relationship. You know and they're going to talk you up to whoever they're trying to get the funds from and they'll be like okay well, you're the guy in charge of that. So I trust you if you trust this guy So then okay approved.
28:04.55
Jake
100%
28:15.86
Charles H_ Coats II
And it comes back. It's like hey awesome. It's approved so so it's really important to to build that business relationship and I don't know slight friendship too because there's a lot of my clients that I'm just like hey what's up Dude you know when I when I'm when I'm mess in them and stuff. So.
28:24.72
Alden
Yeah, oh yeah.
28:24.78
volife
Yeah.
28:30.51
Jake
Yeah, and that's and that's that's really what marketing is all about is building a relationship. It's not just trying to get new clients and then just like and then you you know once you get them. You're like okay cool. It's it's it's it's making that relationship a relationship like you know.
28:43.74
Charles H_ Coats II
Who.
28:46.48
Jake
Yeah, being able to say what's up Dude you know how's it going have some jokes inside you know whatever I mean like that's what gets them to come back because they know you're easy to work with and they like working with you and and the only way for them to realize that is to get to know you and you get to know them I'm not saying like you got to know how many kids they got where they vacation or you know that their dog died or whatever. But I mean it's just.
28:53.55
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
28:54.88
Alden
Um, yeah in.
29:01.49
Charles H_ Coats II
Right? right.
29:05.70
Jake
You gotta it's it's about building relationship and and at least for my part who I've learned from marketing techniques from Paul Schmidt he's he he definitely stresses in his course that it's about building a relationship and and and I'm sure people like Mark Scott would agree. Um, and I can't think of any marketing people at the moment who else is doing that maybe tommagao.
29:06.88
Alden
Yeah.
29:14.49
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
29:24.50
Jake
Ah, a gilo I hope I'm not but I'm I am Aglio I'm butchingering his name I'm sure I think I've I've seen him say similar things as well and you'll probably hear that across all boards marketing and any in any industry not just voiceover. But yeah I've seen some of your emails just because you know you've shared stuff with us and and the way you talk to people is as excellent and and.
29:25.79
volife
Aglio.
29:33.28
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
29:35.98
volife
Um, yeah.
29:40.22
Alden
M.
29:42.67
Jake
You're a little schmoozer that's for sure you know what? I mean like you you know how to schmooze him. No I didn't mean it I didn't mean it like that it is genuine. Yes.
29:43.72
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, not Nots so schmoozy that they're like okay this dude's just schmoozin but it's because it's genuine and it comes from a it. It does come from a good place but there is.
29:47.38
Alden
Um, Charles the smooj and and yep, yep, that's true. Yes.
29:54.68
volife
It's a bro. He's got a bro thing going. He's got the bro thing.
29:56.66
Jake
He is I mean like I mean like look I know you personally and I don't mean schmoozer as a I don't mean that I don't mean that as a like here he he doesn't mean anything. You's saying to you folks out there. What I mean is like you're just good at you're good at making people feel heard and valued and stuff like that which is good and and you do genuinely mean it. Um.
30:02.41
Charles H_ Coats II
Right.
30:06.65
Alden
Um, yeah.
30:08.64
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:12.67
volife
Yeah.
30:13.49
Alden
Um, well I was going to say another thing that we can do to keep that professionalism is if they can't go all the way you can meet them with value. You know, ask for an extra day or 2 to complete the project you know or.
30:15.20
Jake
Now to kind of go on the opposite side of where were you to say something.
30:24.60
Jake
So yeah, yeah, something that makes sense.
30:31.95
Alden
You know there are just different things that you can negotiate other than just price alone that help you know, help them add value that feel like they're not getting your super discounted rate you know and you don't feel like you're cheapening yourself as well. You can offer time as a big one that comes to mind right now.
30:34.78
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
30:43.41
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
30:44.65
Jake
Right? Well I was yeah I was thinking like maybe if they had a.
30:50.47
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, and you you could even you could even offer like you know hey you know what I'm willing to ah, let's if you don't mind we can jump on a directed session for the call and you know what I'm not even going to charge you for the directed session I'll I'll go and eat that. But then this way we'll get it done.
31:02.96
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
31:03.30
Alden
Yeah, yeah, yep.
31:08.10
Charles H_ Coats II
You'll feel good about it. Everything's approved. You know you don't need any revisions or anything get your project done hey okay, well and then he can go back and be like hey he's even going to do a directed session. Normally it's you know one hundred three hundred bucks
31:13.64
Jake
And I.
31:15.40
Alden
Yep yep.
31:15.91
volife
That's good.
31:21.33
Charles H_ Coats II
And he's going to do that for us and then we can get it all done in 1 whack. Okay yeah, proved you know what I mean just little things like that I like that Alden.
31:24.40
Jake
Yeah, well I was going to add too because you talked about time I mean like time of usage even like you know say they wanted it initially for a year is like well how about I give you a price for six months and then let it run for six months and if it's still if you're still liking it then we can kind of renegotiate that way like you are you're paying less than you.
31:24.54
Alden
Yeah, um.
31:31.12
Alden
Um, yeah, yep.
31:37.96
Alden
Um, yeah.
31:41.83
Jake
You know would or maybe you're paying closer to what you would. It's just the usage is a little slower but maybe by the time you get to the end of that. Maybe it wasn't running as good as you were hoping or maybe it is and now you just got to re-up for it I mean like there are options. There are ways to negotiate about that. But um.
31:53.22
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, yeah, or maybe or maybe.
31:54.52
Alden
Um, well unlike Rob Simpaglia said when he was with us nobody uses them in perpetuity nobody nobody's using them forever. You know so that's a great negotiating but spot.
31:59.97
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
32:06.72
Charles H_ Coats II
Um I I like in contracts when it's like they have that that verbiage that's like yeah for use in perpetuity in all of the land and all of the universe for all of time I'm like Wow Really like come on dad. Yeah.
32:07.67
volife
Yeah, um.
32:15.77
Jake
Yeah, yeah, they're going to use that in other universes by the way they're there. They have so and they're yeah, but anyway take right? exactly? Um, but to kind of touch on the other side of the things like when and someone comes back. Um.
32:16.94
Alden
Yeah, like what are you doing? What are you doing? ah right right? Yeah yeah.
32:21.77
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah I'm like well that put on a stite and shot out into the milky way.
32:23.79
volife
And we have 2 dinosaurs in the parking garage. Sure we do? yeah.
32:34.49
Jake
Alden you were talking about earlier today that you had 2 clients recently that went with somebody else because you weren't quite in their budget and what would what did that look like to you like I mean if you want to just kind of give us a little quick breakdown about that and then also your thoughts on that whole thing.
32:37.64
Alden
Yeah.
32:48.40
Alden
Well one said it was about budget. Um the other it was weird because their boss had gone out and got a V O and they they were like working with me and I sent them a sample but out of the blue their boss like hey I have this guy we're going to use. It's like you know we've all been there with that kind of boss right? um.
32:56.15
Jake
Oh so boss rules kind of thing.
33:01.61
Charles H_ Coats II
And.
33:04.35
Jake
Ah, yeah I hate that kind of boss. It's like that boss probably doesn't know what he's doing either that V O is probably someone who goes to their you know gym or something you know like hey yeah.
33:04.54
volife
I Mean ah.
33:06.18
Alden
The yeah the the it probably not and that's gonna you know a yeah, it's yeah, it's right? Yeah Nick locker next to him. Yeah, no I had the other one um, came back and I thought I was I thought they liked the price I was.
33:06.95
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, exactly.
33:09.99
volife
Ah.
33:16.69
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
33:24.22
Alden
Really close to what their budget was they weren't off by that much and they just I sent them a sample. They loved the sample and they came back and said we decided to go with somebody else that's in our budget I'm like man you didn't even give me a chance to negotiate here and and ah but it was It was actually fine because.
33:33.16
Jake
M.
33:42.91
Alden
These last several days I've just had my cue full of work I've been recording all the time. Um fin just finished a big project that I'm so glad to have be done with and ah I still when we get off the call today I've still got more work to do so. Ah yeah, so that's a great thing to say.
33:44.67
Charles H_ Coats II
Gave me where.
33:44.79
Jake
Good good for you. Buddy. That's what's up. Yeah, you love to hear it.
33:56.29
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
33:58.14
volife
Who.
34:01.92
Alden
I can't fit you in you know, but thanks, keep me in mind. Ah so it is almost a blessing. You've heard the saying a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush two and no I think you're killing killing 2 birds with 1 stone you're you're mixing.
34:02.81
Jake
So sure.
34:04.81
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah.
34:10.90
Jake
I 2 in this stone. Oh tune the Bush not 2 in the stone I don't know what that means killing? Yeah yeah.
34:14.50
Charles H_ Coats II
To killing 2 birds in the Bush is worth the stone on the line. But.
34:19.39
volife
Cost Don't call said. So.
34:20.90
Alden
Ah, bird in the hand is worth 2 in the Bush. Yeah but I mean and so many voice actors I think use that mindset that they'd rather take the money than but I think sometimes the birds in the Bush are big old meatbirds that are going to feed you for a long time.
34:30.82
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
34:38.73
Alden
And the one in your hand is nothing so charles you talked about somebody ask you? Why are you stepping over hundreds to pick up the $5 you know and and when it comes to our rates. That's why you need to hold hold to your rates because.
34:38.81
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, yeah, yeah.
34:39.37
volife
A parakeet. Yeah.
34:40.85
Jake
So yeah.
34:46.92
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, why are you stepping over? yeah.
34:54.20
Jake
Um, yeah.
34:56.32
Alden
You may have some people that you've worked with for a long time and kept them grandfathered them in and kept them in the same rate. But you look at the other jobs you're getting and you're getting good rates. Well, you need to bring those other people up or drop them because there is a cost of doing business with business with them that isn't just doing a cheaper rate.
35:04.50
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
35:04.87
Jake
So.
35:15.88
Alden
You're robbing yourself of the opportunity to maybe go audition for better jobs or to do some marketing to companies that will pay you better. So at some point you've got to cut them loose. Yeah.
35:18.40
volife
Right? right.
35:24.11
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, yeah, and and that's and that's a hard thing sometimes you know just because you have been working they were there for you when you started.
35:26.10
Jake
So.
35:29.73
volife
Yes, yeah.
35:33.36
Alden
Yeah I know and your buddies right? because you have developed friendships. You've been personal with them.
35:35.79
Charles H_ Coats II
Right? Yeah I think it's that thing. Yeah, and you yeah yeah, and so it is a difficult thing but in the long run you know it is our business right? It is our business and I am like a friends I want everybody to like me kind of guy like.
35:39.49
Jake
Um, right.
35:41.33
volife
Yeah.
35:46.59
Alden
Right.
35:48.36
volife
It is.
35:53.35
Jake
And they do.
35:54.81
Charles H_ Coats II
Want to be friends with everybody and and it's really tough for me just personally to be like to switch. It shouldn't be to switch to that business mindset I should always be in the business mindset but just add.
35:58.99
Alden
Yeah.
36:11.97
Charles H_ Coats II
Myself into that business mindset that personal part and I think that's where the magic happens that's where the formula is when you could bring yourself? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:12.16
Jake
So.
36:15.87
volife
Yeah, yeah, and you you don't want to feel like ah you don't want to feel like you're letting them down you know I don't like that feeling. Oh I've let them down. It's going to bother me, you know I should have done that for them. They're they're going to be in trouble. No, they're not, they're going to go get somebody else for five bucks
36:16.96
Alden
Yeah.
36:29.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, exactly because they need their business to run so they're going to so you know that's just like us if we lose a client. It's not like it's not like my world is ended right? It's what do we do? Okay I got to go out and replace them with another client.
36:33.42
volife
There You know it's going to be fine. Yeah, it's it and we're going to replace them. Yeah, you got to replace them.
36:40.83
Alden
Right? right? yeah.
36:41.38
Jake
No, especially if you believe in yourself and have confidence I mean like look the proof is in ah at least for us I mean like look there's been times we've had dry spells for sure. But then there's also been times when it's like oh my gosh this week I've booked like 5 things and I'm busy like you you are right now al and it's like what the crap and you know what I mean but.
36:50.92
Alden
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh is it was terrible. Ah yeah.
36:57.82
Charles H_ Coats II
Me.
37:00.60
Jake
Let's check in on you two months ago weren't I mean just like man. It's really slow right now I mean yeah, exactly. But then these things so it's like again, it's it's there's going to be these ups and downs and but just because there's downs doesn't mean you should like compromise you know your worth you know what? I mean um and and.
37:03.79
volife
It happens Feast or famine.
37:12.38
Charles H_ Coats II
Me.
37:12.95
Alden
Right? right.
37:13.21
volife
Bright.
37:17.59
Jake
To kind of like switch gears a little bit. Let's talk a little bit about like fiverr because you know obviously on Fiverr especially when you're just starting out like your rates just typically have to be lower to kind of get your foot in the door. It seems like right, but you know just starting out like you don't really have the experience. You don't have maybe you haven't been able to invest in a demo yet. So you've made a couple of samples that probably aren't the best quality yet. But.
37:26.27
Alden
Um, yeah.
37:37.12
Jake
You know you're working on that and you're working on that by doing these jobs to get money to invest into your business and whatnot but shouldn't there be at a point like as you do start getting better and I'm sorry if you hear my dog barking. Um.
37:40.44
Alden
A.
37:47.50
Alden
But.
37:50.80
Jake
Shouldn't there be a point like as you get better and you're able to invest money like get better equipment. Get better coaching and and maybe get your demos and get better samples like that you should start increasing your rates I mean like look I'm not knocking anybody that's on fiverr and doing stuff for cheap but at the same time you're not doing yourself any favors and you're definitely not doing the community any favor. You know what? I mean like.
37:56.92
Alden
For sure for sure. E.
37:57.30
Charles H_ Coats II
Who.
38:07.15
Alden
Um, yeah.
38:07.68
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
38:08.19
Jake
I'm not saying like you know I'm not trying to pressure people to raise their rates but you really should start and if I I feel like the only reason you're not is is 2 reasons really, you don't believe in yourself or you're just trying to undercut everybody and at the end of the day like that's not i.
38:11.55
Alden
Well yeah.
38:21.34
volife
Yeah, why work yourself to death for Peanuts Why you don't have to do that and you know I hearing you say that I'm thinking he's telling the story of my life because you know I so I did start ah there and with upwork but I.
38:23.21
Charles H_ Coats II
He.
38:23.59
Alden
Um, right? yeah.
38:24.98
Jake
Right? Exactly why work yourself for peanuts.
38:30.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
38:33.10
Alden
Ah.
38:37.36
volife
Pretty quickly had to let go a lot of people in a hurry because once I got educated I didn't know any better and once I got educated I knew what to do and then yeah and that's a thing people don't get educated. They don't understand the value of a voiceover and why you.
38:41.20
Jake
Yeah, and that is a problem a problem.
38:43.60
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
38:53.25
volife
You want to be paid for the usage and why you don't let things go in perp and why you don't sign away exclusivity and you know you don't want to get in a mess but you're not even protected on there and you're you're doing the stuff you know, working yourself to death for nothing and I'm hearing a lot of stories and I'm not.
38:59.98
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
39:10.23
volife
Involved with fiverr hardly at all I get very very little there. But when I do I get paid I get I get gva a or better or I don't because yeah, my rates are on there or they're high and and I'm hearing a lot of people.
39:15.35
Jake
Um, sure Well, you've raised your rates, you've gotten to the point where you're able to.
39:16.91
Alden
Um, right.
39:22.72
volife
You know, saying how this changed on there and they've changed the rating and they've done this and that and I said well I don't care what they change if I get something from there. Okay, if I don't I don't care. Um, but a lot of people are very upset over it because they have made all these changes and they fell out of the algorithm they relied.
39:29.28
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
39:39.54
volife
On fiverr so heavily and then now that it's crashed around them and they haven't been doing direct marketing now I'm getting all kinds of people wanting to consult with me about direct Market I said I don't do direct marketing I don't teach direct marketing I can tell you how I got away from yeah I don't consult and I'm not telling them what I do.
39:39.67
Alden
Right? yeah.
39:43.29
Charles H_ Coats II
New.
39:52.37
Jake
I I mean you do do it. You just don't console is that what you mean? Okay, yeah I was like wait a second I thought you did do it God to guy to got to.
39:55.84
Alden
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you do you're doing coach direct marketing. Yeah.
39:56.80
Charles H_ Coats II
Right.
39:59.60
volife
But what I'm saying is I I don't teach or coach or anything but I will tell you how I set up my business model sure book that free 15 minutes with me and I'll tell you what I did to get away from that and how I went from you know 10% 20% direct business to 65% how I did it.
40:11.43
Alden
Um.
40:14.52
Charles H_ Coats II
A.
40:14.84
Alden
Yeah.
40:17.94
volife
But I won't I don't have a way to show you or give you a program I don't do that but you better be doing more than just what I like to call a freelance platform because it can go away I've said for years they can yank the rug out from under you you can make a mistake in 1
40:20.88
Alden
Yeah.
40:22.77
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
40:32.80
Charles H_ Coats II
Me up.
40:32.23
Jake
Hundred percent
40:36.79
volife
Communication with a client and they can go you have broken our terms of service and you're off the platform. They don't care if you're making them five or eight thousand dollars a month. They'll make an example out of you. They can change the algorithms they can change the way they rate the the orders and that's what they've just done. Everything's changing because they are losing.
40:38.22
Alden
Yep e.
40:43.38
Alden
Right? Yeah, oh there's lot. Yeah.
40:46.63
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep.
40:55.89
volife
They are not making the money they were making a year ago their their income is going down month after month after month and their sales and they are doing everything they can get that back and that's why they're overcharging and overcharging and overcharging that they're charging you 20% they're charging you if you're in a seller.
40:59.11
Alden
That's right.
41:07.55
Jake
Right.
41:10.73
Alden
Um.
41:12.87
Alden
Um, yeah, promotional gigs. Yeah.
41:14.73
volife
Plus thing you're getting charged for that. You have to promote your gigs to be seen. You're getting charged for that next thing you know at the end of the yeah and next thing you know at the end of the month ah on the thirty first not only have you paid in 20% of what little you sold all of a sudden they're taking out another one hundred and ninety something dollars in fees.
41:19.71
Jake
They're going to make their money whether they you have you or not.
41:32.61
volife
Because of seller plus and promoted gigs and this and this and you're going Jesus Christ I just lost money you know so it's happening and people are seeing it now. No, it's a small and well I say a small part. It's a decent part. But yeah, yeah.
41:36.67
Jake
Right.
41:36.75
Alden
Well and and voiceover is not The only thing that's purchased there. They're making money off of hundreds of different kinds of services. Yeah yeah, they they kick you off. Yeah, they kick you off as a seller and they're not going to miss you? yeah.
41:37.99
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
41:41.67
Jake
Right? Everything? Yeah yeah, yeah, didn't matter how much you're making them because they're making a lot more. Yeah and that's the thing you should never rely on any 1 platform or anyone really honestly, really.
41:42.29
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
41:52.29
volife
That's a thing you're nobody to them. You're nobody to them.
41:53.22
Charles H_ Coats II
You know that that.
41:55.11
Alden
That's right right.
42:00.30
Jake
Any One opportunity Stream I mean like I'm going to count direct marketing in this because only to an extent though you can't even necessarily always rely on your direct marketing unless you are constantly monitoring what's working and what's not and then making changes making adjustments. To increase your streams of opportunity like you can never have as many yeah as you can never have enough streams of opportunity because the more opportunity streams you have that just means that the more possibility that you're going to get a job somewhere you know and I mean yeah yeah.
42:16.44
Alden
Yeah.
42:16.61
volife
Yeah.
42:25.67
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah, it just comes it just comes down to the old outage. You can't have all your eggs in 1 basket. You know you need spokes in the wheel you need you know multiple fishing lines in the in the pond you know, whatever. However, we want to say it? yeah.
42:25.86
volife
You got to have those at bats. Yeah, right.
42:26.58
Alden
yeah yeah yeah I was gonna say yours? Yeah I was Goingnna say you're sit yeah stop sitting on a one legged stool.
42:32.14
Jake
And.
42:40.28
volife
That's right make them all up.
42:40.49
Jake
Welcome to this week's cliche corner right? right? Well you know? Ok so I was actually listening to um the making waves podcast which I really don't listen to voiceover podcasts at all. But someone suggested it to me.
42:44.72
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, yeah.
42:46.90
volife
Ah.
42:54.75
Jake
And it was the episode about rates with the GV a a c o ah David Tolbeck um and it was great. I is a great episode um and and he kind of touched. It is a good podcast. Um and and David kind of touched about on people that are on a Fiverr and whatnot and he goes it really kind of comes down to like are you a voice actor.
43:03.29
volife
It's a good podcast.
43:03.75
Alden
No.
43:14.47
Jake
Or are you a voiceover service provider and that and that's kind of how he was seeing people that were on fiverr primarily anyway like and and again he did stress. He's like look I'm not knocking anybody trying to make a living trying to make you know you know make money pay their bills so he definitely wasn't like putting people down but that's kind of how he saw it like so.
43:16.24
Charles H_ Coats II
Oh.
43:25.90
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
43:26.11
Alden
Um, yeah.
43:31.85
volife
Mm.
43:33.58
Jake
You got to ask to you kind of have to ask yourself like yeah we are voice actors but we are providing a service but are at the end of the day like if someone asks us what we do do we say I'm a voice actor or I do voiceover or I provide voiceover services you know and I mean like am I a voiceover service provider and at that point it's like. Where where do you draw that line right? Greg where how do you define yourself I mean because in that can he tie it back to rates because he's like look if you're a voice actor then you really need to be standing strong firmly by those rates that are kind of laid out in the union or non-union guides depending on what you are.
44:05.43
Alden
Um, a.
44:05.76
Jake
But if you're just providing voiceover services. Then yeah, then that that goes into like the freelance or the gig The gig economy kind of thing where you are kind of under bidding people. You're trying you know you're trying to get the job so you can get the money like is it about money for you is it about or is it about the craft and the art and whatnot you know.
44:14.23
Alden
Um, yeah.
44:18.87
volife
Yeah, good point.
44:20.13
Alden
Well yeah, the world of rates for voiceover as in any business. It's a pyramid you're going to have people at the top who pay the most you're going to have a lot of people in the bottom who want to buy it for the cheapest and every platform fiverr upwork.
44:21.26
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
44:21.71
Jake
So it was very interesting. You know.
44:27.68
Jake
So.
44:28.73
Charles H_ Coats II
What.
44:33.28
Jake
So.
44:37.97
Alden
Voice 1 2 3 voices.com the dog everywhere has that pyramid. It's just where is the bottom of the pyramid where is the largest amount of the cheapest buyers. It might be a little bit higher on voices.com and they have ah a higher peak but every place has different level of buyers.
44:45.91
Jake
So.
44:57.80
Alden
I have done jobs on voice 1 2 3 that would have paid more on fiverr. The way I have my prices set up. Yes, absolutely absolutely and so you know that voice 1 2 3 is not the promise land necessarily either when it comes to rates. So yeah.
45:01.10
Jake
Yeah, really oh, that's cool. That's really cool.
45:01.46
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
45:10.71
Jake
No, there's not a single promise landed honestly like as as far as the platforms go and you got to stand by them too. Yeah.
45:15.20
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
45:15.59
Alden
So you have to set your rates and your rates have to be your rates. You got at? yeah yeah, read.
45:18.60
volife
Yeah, and you got to ask questions folks. You got to ask questions. People will will be very ah, very vague with you and you have to ask where is this being used and for how long and if you don't ask that I mean I've had people.
45:19.97
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
45:28.85
Alden
Um, yep, right.
45:30.72
Jake
And again.
45:32.62
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm.
45:36.80
volife
Do me that way on fiverr. They'll send in a little thing by your word count and it's only seventy eighty dollars and you're going hey hang on just a minute this right that you can tell it's a thirty second spot or a sixty second spot so I'll go back and say.
45:47.60
Jake
Right? right.
45:48.45
Alden
Right.
45:52.43
volife
Ah, hey I noticed you didn't purchase any rights or usage How how will you? Yeah and how will you be using this and they explain it. You know? Well I'm going to be doing this and then they'll do the ah I was going to discuss that with you I just wasn't sure I just wasn't part.
45:53.60
Jake
Oh that happened to you recently.
45:56.32
Alden
Oh that happens all the time. Yeah.
46:04.10
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah.
46:05.25
Jake
I Just wasn't booty booty.
46:07.94
volife
And they were not they were hoping they were hoping to get a ah really solid voiceover of cheap. So yeah I didn't know but I didn't know back when I started No no.
46:11.13
Alden
Ah, oftentimes that's the case. Yeah, of course.
46:11.80
Jake
You but you know what you knew why you knew to do that is because at this point you're experienced like now would have Troy would Troy of 2020 done that exactly but you but what's crazy is in I say it's crazy. It's not crazy but at the same time when you see it being experienced. You kind of think to yourself. This is crazy is still seeing people in these voiceover communities.
46:15.47
Charles H_ Coats II
Right.
46:31.27
Jake
That are not experienced or just maybe don't care or whatever asking questions about these things and it's like they're almost some of them are like literally almost about to give away their voice for pennies like you know and I it came up like this week on there was someone that posted saying like hey I got a job that they want to that they want to hire me for but ah.
46:32.30
volife
They don't know.
46:34.38
Alden
Right.
46:38.90
volife
That that came up couple weeks ago right
46:40.56
Charles H_ Coats II
MH m
46:50.29
Jake
I don't have a home studio so how would I go about doing this and and people were like well what's the job and they're like well they want me for 4 hours a day for two weeks guys what does that sound like to you tts and people were saying like well you could either go ahead and try to yeah.
46:51.82
Alden
Yeah I saw that here t DS text to speech.
46:57.41
volife
T T S V T s.
46:59.45
Charles H_ Coats II
Tts.
47:03.56
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, oh she was going to like rent a studio for 4 hours a day.
47:08.23
Jake
Well yes, and check this out. The rate was only $2800 and I'm gonna tell you right now for two weeks four hours a day. What is that like it's 5 That's ah, that's is that 40 hours that's yeah exactly. she yeah exactly
47:08.71
volife
She's so she's a V O but she doesn't have a home studio.
47:10.36
Charles H_ Coats II
Oh oh.
47:18.70
Alden
Oh it's awful.
47:20.39
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, it's gonna be more than twenty Eight hundred bucks to rent a studio for that many hours.
47:23.37
Alden
Yeah, yeah.
47:23.87
volife
Um, 20 hours it's 2040
47:26.90
Jake
Yeah now. Luckily luckily this person ended up turning down the job after people from the community chimed in or whatever. Oh yeah, yeah for sure. So she ended up turning down the job which I mean again, $2800 is a great amount of money but not for that type of job. Not for that type of job. So.
47:29.58
Alden
Oh good I didn't catch that part but that is good. Yeah.
47:31.94
volife
Yeah.
47:32.47
Charles H_ Coats II
That's awesome. Good good. Good.
47:39.50
volife
No and Charles Charles and I both were going to get hired yesterday by Zechari but it just didn't work out. Yeah at outlook.com yeah
47:42.20
Charles H_ Coats II
Um, yeah Zachariah Mcgee that was a so if anybody's listening to this if you get a message from Zachariah Mcgee you know Zachariah Scammy Mcgee ah that yeah.
47:45.86
Jake
So the oh the the.
47:48.16
Alden
Um, ah mcgee. Ah.
47:54.66
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
47:55.18
Alden
Um, oh my gosh.
47:56.24
Charles H_ Coats II
And it's that and it's the same old tired that I've got 20 times. Hey it's $2000 it's a copyright we'll rent the studio close to you so you don't have to go and that's when I started toying with him yeah that's what I started toying with him I was like I was like oh great.
47:59.39
volife
Yeah, we're going to Rentmp the studio I'll send you. My driver's license. He even said.
48:02.34
Alden
Yeah, yep.
48:05.37
Jake
Now 8
48:11.80
Charles H_ Coats II
I was like no problem because I have a pro. Ah ah, a rated pro studio at home. So we don't even need to go to it and then he came back. Wow you need you, We need to ah connect with the the audio engineers there I was like and I was like oh great I'm actually a certified audio engineer in my past life I'm certified in C at C E T Blah Blah Blah This yeah.
48:28.10
Jake
Um, in my past life shut stay.
48:29.85
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, this and that and I was like so why don't you guys just hire me I'll do it all? Well we got a contract with these people so I was like great. Well I have idpo Isdn source connect.
48:40.90
Jake
You were taking them around to bend weren't you man.
48:40.93
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, you know all this stuff I was like I got it all linked up I was like you know great I could connect directly to him have 100% quality it'll be no problem and then he's like well I got to I got do and I was like and then I send him to hey scanning Mcgee I was like I've seen this thing 20 times. But then I actually.
48:42.61
volife
Yeah.
48:47.00
Jake
Hundred percent quality
48:58.91
Charles H_ Coats II
I Don't know what was up with me I was like you know what I in in the email I put don't Why are you doing this kind of work man I was like if somebody pulled this scam on your mom and dad like you would be upset that somebody did this to your parents I was like this kind of work this? Yeah yeah I know.
49:14.67
Jake
He's like I already did it to my parents. They were the first people I did this to.
49:16.28
Alden
Kids That's probably true.
49:17.23
Charles H_ Coats II
This kind of work takes money away from you know from families that are like striving and and hoping for this this opportunity and that's money for medicine that's money for their their lights to be on this and that and I was like do something good man I was like I Really yeah I was like I Really hope the best for you and then I put buddhas.
49:29.64
volife
Do something good with your life. Yeah.
49:31.23
Alden
Um, yeah.
49:36.11
Charles H_ Coats II
Quote in there. It's like a person that that ah values thems themselves will never do harm to others all right and and I was like I Just wish you the best. Please don't do this to anybody else and if they ever read that and then they take it to heart if they don't take it heart great but hey I don't know maybe I yeah am.
49:44.33
Jake
And.
49:48.68
volife
He didn't cause he was emailing me after after you sent that so I was playing him too I was I was dragging him along and I said where do I set up this this. What was it called a bolabola account or something I said how do I do that? Oh it's just real easy. We'll do it online then I'll send you. My driver's license I'm like.
49:51.57
Alden
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he got a tiger by the tail though.
49:52.14
Jake
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:54.34
Charles H_ Coats II
Wow.
50:00.14
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah.
50:07.64
volife
Yeah, sorry, you're crazy and I'll I'll lead him along I'm like Charles I like to lead him along I do him on the phone all the time when they call here I'll do that like I can't speak english you know when they're they're trying to tell me stuff and I'm driving them nuts. Yeah.
50:08.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, so watch out for scams people.
50:10.41
Jake
Yeah, hundred percent
50:11.89
Alden
Ah, yeah.
50:16.46
Alden
Um, yeah.
50:18.41
Jake
Now with your accent me no speaky English ah.
50:26.80
volife
No I can oh come on I can I can I can put a character on. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:28.86
Alden
Get him on a Zoom call. Hey yeah, let's have a quick zoom call Mr. Scammerson. Yep.
50:31.78
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah, Mr. Scammy Mcsammerson
50:33.68
Jake
Yeah, and then tell him you can't speak english well guys do you is there anything that you think I've missed that we should talk about I mean we we're coming near the end of the episode. We've been. We've been talking for 50 minutes which it does not feel that way is there anything that you think I haven't covered or you guys haven't talked about that we should.
50:43.94
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
50:46.80
volife
Well I know we talked about fiverr. But as we said whether it's fiverrvoices.com voice 1 2 3 whatever it is know you're worth there are just as many new people on on the pay to plays and and the new differentiation is.
50:46.22
Alden
Um, yeah.
50:52.20
Jake
I Know you're worth a.
50:53.77
Alden
Write know your worth.
50:56.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
51:02.35
volife
I Guess those are now online casting is what everybody likes to call it. Well they don't like to say pay to play so online casting and then your fiverr and your upworks and your all your other stuff. They are freelance platforms because you're not paying to be there but they are taking money so treat everything the same.
51:05.83
Alden
Um, yeah.
51:06.48
Jake
Um.
51:15.83
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
51:15.97
Jake
Right.
51:20.79
volife
Use the same rates across the board and use that Gvaa put a cheat sheet in front of you where you can know if it's this this is you can quickly quote it or leave it pulled up in the background. Don't screw around with that because if you've been doing this a while you should be making the money if you're educated had coaching etc.
51:22.15
Alden
Yeah, yep.
51:37.64
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
51:39.89
volife
Yes, there are people who are not who are doing what some of us did maybe early on and did things a little cheaper but come out of that as quickly as you can don't do it? No not at all.
51:46.62
Charles H_ Coats II
No.
51:46.99
Alden
Yeah I agree with that. No no more more like yeah I think it's this is more.
51:47.66
Jake
That and I want to stress again that we're not putting people down for trying to make a living but you need to you need to so like every three months or something maybe 6 or something like that assess where you're at and and then start increasing your rates like you deserve it.
51:52.17
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, yeah.
51:57.88
volife
There comes a time. Yeah.
52:04.53
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
52:05.34
Alden
See this more like a warning that you're going to hurt yourself if you don't eventually get yourself to where your rates need to be. Yeah, if you're starting out, you're going to start lower just because but you've got to get to your to your place where your rates match the value. You're giving.
52:06.85
Jake
Yeah, okay.
52:11.92
volife
Yeah.
52:17.25
Charles H_ Coats II
Um.
52:22.73
Alden
Um, I do have 2 simple questions though for you guys? Um, do you have a minimum like I'm not going to do any job that is less than right? So yes, yes, yeah.
52:27.28
volife
Yes, typically yes I do typically.
52:31.55
Jake
Yeah I at least over the last for sure over the last six months like there might be something every now and then that if I look at it depending on what it is I might do something like lower than what I would consider my minimum but mostly yeah like I I don't I really don't turn anything on for like at less than two fifty
52:42.62
volife
Yeah, after.
52:46.48
Alden
Yeah I think I think we should I think we should have a minimum. Yeah.
52:48.72
volife
Yeah, and I look at the I look. It's a studio minimum at two fifty but keep in mind and this has happened a lot lately. There are a lot of particular spots that are being done for less.
52:51.30
Jake
Yeah, right? yeah.
53:00.90
Jake
M.
53:03.10
volife
So if it's a thirty second if it's a local radio. It's going to be less than two fifty you're not going to get to 50 um a lot of the automotive stuff unfortunately has dropped even below one hundred bucks um and it's and it's pitiful I mean I have been on the phone with a couple of guys and he's just saying look it's it's all you know.
53:06.50
Charles H_ Coats II
And.
53:11.41
Alden
Right? right? Yeah, yeah, it is.
53:22.41
volife
I know it used to be two fifty and then it went to 150 and I'm sorry but this is all we can get from these dealerships and I don't know if that's true or not but it's crazy how some of thats went down while other things have held and stayed up and I think it depends on the area of the country and who the dealership is and blah blah blah um, whatever but still.
53:29.22
Alden
Isn't That's something.
53:35.40
Alden
Yeah, sure e.
53:41.57
Charles H_ Coats II
I do I do a car dealership and um, they have 5 spots for me a month and we negotiated a rate at one hundred bucks a spot.
53:42.15
volife
Yeah.
53:50.38
Charles H_ Coats II
But that's guaranteed five hundred bucks it's like it's a super super quick. Yeah, and and they use it for that. Yeah and they use it for that month and the next month basically I'm just changing like the price sometimes and that's it like the the rest of the spot. Yeah.
53:51.70
Alden
Um, yeah, yeah, it's kind of a package deal there.
53:52.14
Jake
And it's not in perpetuity either.
54:04.75
volife
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:05.97
Alden
Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Yeah.
54:06.22
Jake
In the script.
54:09.70
Charles H_ Coats II
The rest of the spot I mean I could literally just voice match and say that the price and send them that and they're good with it so things like that I I work out like ah, a bundle deal or a package. Um, yeah.
54:14.88
Alden
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:15.14
volife
Yeah.
54:19.95
Jake
And that's okay, you can always. There's room for bundling in there and they even talk about that in the gva rate guide if you guys have not again I know we've talked about it again, but go go look at the gva and just get familiar with how rates work you can bundle price for certain things and it's in its the verbiage is in there it it tells you how to do that.
54:20.30
volife
Yeah, yeah.
54:29.98
Alden
Um, yes.
54:30.47
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah.
54:38.35
Jake
And in the I know the last episode we talked about rates Paul Schmidt has a course. It's I think it's about I think it's about one hundred bucks um and he helps break down helps you break down jobs and how you how to quote them properly using the gva rate guide. Um and you know if you can't figure it out on your own. There's reserve sources like that and if you can't pay for that.
54:50.13
Alden
Yeah.
54:57.42
Jake
And start asking the community. You're probably going to get a bunch of different answers but you just at the end of the day you got to quote what's best for you But but I encourage you to have rates that are at least close to Union Standard if not within the in the thing if if you're not there yet.
54:57.82
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
55:05.79
Alden
Um, yes, yeah, and then raise them at over time. Keep raising your rates over time.
55:07.59
Charles H_ Coats II
So I I look at yeah I look at the yeah I look at the gva a rate guide probably 7 to 10 times a day like I'm always on there looking if even if I'm not sure I just.
55:12.86
volife
Yep, yeah.
55:19.74
Alden
Yeah.
55:21.14
Jake
I Do not.
55:25.94
Charles H_ Coats II
Want to double check now for some things I already know the price like I know what the rate is I know what the industry rate is I had to look one up yesterday for a toy a voice of a toy. Yeah yeah, you know which one I'm talking about and I looked at that and it was like.
55:27.93
Jake
Sure that.
55:28.83
Alden
Yeah, yeah, yep.
55:33.86
volife
I did too. Yeah I saw that one? yep.
55:36.60
Alden
Ah, that's fun must been one that came through.
55:42.65
Charles H_ Coats II
For the for the price the thing I was like okay well it's a voice for a time ah for a certain time limit of recording or a buyout for that toy and and the buyout amount that was on there for that toy.
55:50.87
Alden
Right.
55:56.92
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, and you know I had to look at I had to look at what it was because my rate was going to be way lower than what I was that? Yeah yeah, good thing I looked yeah and even yeah, even yeah, exactly.
55:57.25
Jake
Ah.
56:03.54
Alden
Good thing you looked. Yeah.
56:04.68
Jake
Good thing you look then? ah.
56:05.48
volife
But I still after I saw it I thought shouldn't be more in that even though I probably would have missed it then when I looked it up I thought but. They get that prayer and then they said they could use it in the promos and commercials and stuff on top of that and I'm like wait a minute that's that's another usage isn't it. But no, it wasn't so.
56:19.55
Alden
Sure sure, No no.
56:20.44
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep yep yep Yep! So I put in my thing. Um, this is for this is for the tool in my in my whatever the the communication with that proposal.
56:33.11
volife
Proposal.
56:36.81
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, and usage for usage usage for um, television radio and Pre-roll Tbd. So if they want to talk to me about it they can but that's the price for this these spots and then if you want to use it more just just put it in there. I Think we just need to be not scared about just putting it in there and opening up and opening up a ah bridge to be like let's communicate on this bridge like we can talk about that stuff if it. Yeah, if they like you then and the rates end up working out great but don't just be like cut it off and be like that's it.
56:56.40
Alden
Yes, yeah, communicate communicate. Yep.
57:03.97
volife
Yeah, and if they like you.
57:04.94
Alden
E.
57:15.00
Alden
Yeah.
57:15.38
Charles H_ Coats II
This is the wall but you know just keep that line that that the outstretched hand there to be like yeah I'm willing to willing to talk to you about it and if it works for them Great if it doesn't It's okay, right? It just didn't work out and they know that you're a good person. They might come back to you for something else.
57:22.43
Alden
Um, yep.
57:30.28
volife
Yeah, and don't be the person that goes in there at 10% of what the rest of us quoted and get the job. You know I mean you say well I got the job. Yeah, well you shouldn't you shouldn't but I'm on to tell you if your audition is really good. If.
57:35.16
Alden
Oh gosh, you're probably not going to get the job if you quote 10% you're not getting the job. They're gonna see yeah they're gonna see this is a chump this is not a pro. Yeah.
57:36.37
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
57:50.30
volife
But if your audition's really good and your sound is really good and all that and you just don't know better I Think that's a possibility I think it happens sometimes I really believe it happens sometimes it doesn't happen often I don't think it happens often.
57:55.45
Alden
I Don't know I I'm as I'm a skeptic. Ah.
58:04.25
volife
But I can tell you this last year early in the year wax yeah right early in year in January Super Bowl stuff's coming up. Um, there were stuff. There were things put out that they were not being clear that it was a super bowl ad they were not being clear. It was going on national television. They were not posting with honesty and.
58:10.24
Alden
Oh yeah.
58:15.99
Charles H_ Coats II
M.
58:21.21
Alden
Yep.
58:24.19
volife
I know a couple of jobs that people got and they only were paid about four hundred bucks or three hundred and fifty bucks which seemed fair for what they were posting and next thing you know this thing's being played ah not on the super bowl channel but on another channel during the super bowl.
58:38.33
Alden
Um.
58:42.20
Alden
Um, yep, yep, it is Yep yep right? Yeah, that's wrong. Ah yeah.
58:42.66
Charles H_ Coats II
Mm It doesn't matter. It's prime time they got paid peanut shells for what they could have got.
58:43.15
volife
That was doing its prime time National and they got paid squat and and I'm telling you they were pros. They knew what they were doing but they did not ask the questions. Based on the proposal and this was in an online casting Place. No.
59:02.84
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, and since we're talking about rates that is super super important to get all of that handled before the job is done right? Understand what? yeah understand what's going What's going to be ah everything that's involved with this and then.
59:04.20
Alden
Don't do that to yourself.
59:09.46
Alden
Um, yeah, yep, yep.
59:09.66
volife
Yeah.
59:10.81
Jake
Um, make yourself a list of what you need to ask.
59:20.96
Charles H_ Coats II
Negotiate the price or see if that price is fair for what they're needing it for and then go from there but don't come back? yeah.
59:24.26
volife
And yes and they're going to reach out if they like you they're going to reach out before they schedule to to do to do the live session they did they did in this case, they reach out and say hey we want to see if you're available blah blah Blah blah and that's when you can go.
59:33.13
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep yep.
59:39.91
volife
Hey by the way I want to verify the usage on this before we agree to this and you could do that and you might lose it. You probably would lose it if you start bucking up, but why not ask ask the questions folks.
59:45.57
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep yep Yep yep.
59:45.99
Alden
Um, yeah, maybe maybe I know we're at an hour I have 1 follow up question this is been I've been thinking about this about rates your rate sheet. Well so do you have a rate sheet and how simple is it? what.
59:48.30
Jake
So now. Yeah well.
01:00:03.94
Alden
Are the minimum things you should have on a rate sheet.
01:00:04.96
Charles H_ Coats II
Man. Okay, so.
01:00:06.23
Jake
I Do have a rach eat.
01:00:08.44
volife
Don't shit but I don't look I don't believe in sharing rate sheets not publicly as somebody ask I might but yeah, yeah, and I think you just got to keep it basic. Keep it basic. It's a good cheat sheet to have on my desk too.
01:00:09.39
Alden
I agree with that unless asked.
01:00:12.71
Jake
Yeah, 100% I have a rate sheet just to make it easy if and again make it easy if someone asks but otherwise I just I yeah yeah for sure. Yeah.
01:00:18.62
Alden
Um, yes that that's and to be consistent. You know I have a rate sheet because I want to be consistent. Yeah.
01:00:23.64
Charles H_ Coats II
I Think a good cheat sheet to have on the desk but I've had people ask me? yeah this this this in can you send us a rate sheet and and I told them well I don't really have a rate sheet it all depends on the usage the time how it's going to be used where it's going to be used. So.
01:00:25.40
volife
Yeah.
01:00:41.24
Alden
Um.
01:00:43.43
Charles H_ Coats II
You know, can you give me the details. You can always give me the details and I can give you a quote right? but but like yeah and that's the thing it's like because what if they came to you and they're like yeah ah we want to pay for this and we have a budget of 10000 okay great
01:00:45.84
Jake
Yeah, and if people aren't happy with that Then you probably don't want to work with them anyway.
01:00:48.24
Alden
Um, right right? yeah.
01:00:48.58
volife
Um, yeah, yeah.
01:01:00.79
Charles H_ Coats II
Wow because I if I gave them a rate sheet they would have got that for you know twelve hundred bucks you know what I'm saying like you don't you don't you don't want to you don't want to put your stuff out there because they might have this budget that's coming down from corporate and they got they have it and they budgeted out this much for the voice actor for this.
01:01:03.80
Alden
Right? right? Yeah, yeah, you.
01:01:06.60
volife
You got? yeah you got That's why you don't send it out.
01:01:17.40
volife
Yep.
01:01:17.42
Alden
Um, yeah I think that yeah I think that should also yeah I agree that should always be your first question when they ask that I do have rates that I try to stick to tell me what's your budget so we can make sure we're on the same page you know, however, you phrase that in a friendly way.
01:01:20.65
Charles H_ Coats II
Thing.
01:01:27.44
Charles H_ Coats II
Yeah, what.
01:01:28.15
volife
Yeah.
01:01:33.70
Alden
You know, typically you can get to that if they don't share it if they're being coy right? Sometimes you get Okay, you got to put something out there but let me just say this is a starting point and this includes these usages and these you. So if you need to extend. But yeah beyond that the rate may be higher so you can qualify it.
01:01:49.19
Charles H_ Coats II
And if they don't yeah because if it doesn't if it's not clear if it's going to be used only for pre-roll for for social media platforms or if it's going to be ah, a national or regional or local. Whatever then if it comes down to it then I'll and they don't give me a budget or they don't give me something.
01:01:51.97
Alden
A a.
01:01:58.75
Alden
Are.
01:02:05.64
Charles H_ Coats II
Then I'll shoot something back and be like okay yeah for for national one year. It's going to be this much for 30 seconds if it's going to be and then they're going to be like it's either going to be yeah, that's what it is or it's going to be like well we're not even using it for that. This is what if where that you can get it out of them. But then again don't go into that conversation or that email with ah.
01:02:15.87
Alden
Um, yeah, right.
01:02:18.48
volife
Yeah, right.
01:02:25.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Ah, like to be read in a bad tone or to be just be professional. Be like okay well if it's this this and this it's going to be this and then they can come back and be like okay or oh it's only going to be used for preroll or it's only going to be used for ah local local radio for this amount of time. Okay, great. Yeah, that's no problem. Well it'll be this much.
01:02:39.23
Alden
And asking asking those questions consistently to potential clients. You start to train them to think in that way and we should be doing that as as a good business practice to train and help our clients understand how they need to think of voiceover.
01:02:39.51
Jake
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:46.90
Charles H_ Coats II
Oh.
01:02:48.59
Jake
Right? so.
01:02:55.55
volife
Right on.
01:02:57.83
Jake
Yeah, well guys This has been a great episode full of great information I Hope our listeners I Hope you guys get a lot out of this I know we've touched on rates before but this is just kind of an update on that and just proof that you can stand up for yourself and your worth and win and get paid what you are worth. Um, so for myself.
01:02:59.20
Alden
Um, yeah.
01:02:59.27
Charles H_ Coats II
Yep.
01:03:10.57
Charles H_ Coats II
Kind of percent.
01:03:11.20
Alden
Um, yeah.
01:03:11.42
volife
Absolutely.
01:03:15.66
Jake
Ah, Alden Troy and our newest regular member Charles Devoce this has been another vo podcast. We'll see you next time.
01:03:19.69
Alden
Charles du Bois The schmoozer.
01:03:20.61
Charles H_ Coats II
Was that? yeah.