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Podcast guiding the emerging motion designer on their path to becoming an everyday motion designer.
Kyle Harter: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Everyday Motion Podcast, where we guide the emerging motion designer on their way to becoming an everyday motion designer. My name is Kyle Harter, and I'll be your host as I talk with these everyday motion designers. In this episode, I'll be speaking with freelance motion designer. Ryan Young.
We had a great conversation as we dove into topics such as work life balance, working on your craft, and finding your role inside an agency, and so much more. All right, let's not waste any more time and let's jump right into the conversation with Ryan Young.
Ryan, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.
Ryan Young: Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Kyle Harter: Yeah, of course. And Ryan, before we get into the flow of the conversation today, Can you just give us a quick rundown of like where you're from, maybe how many years you've been in the industry. And if you want to follow up with that, how you got into motion design.
Ryan Young: So I'm based out of Lexington, Kentucky right now, actually moving in a few months to OKC, [00:01:00] Oklahoma. But yeah, I've been in this industry for about 10 ish years, got into motion design. Like a lot of people, I think just starting in editing and making ridiculous videos like lightsaber effects and muzzle flash and stuff.
And then doing all that in like Final Cut Express. Slowly, like realizing, Oh my gosh, there's like an actual platform dedicated to doing cool stuff with animation. Like what the heck? And just jumped into that in like high school and got really into After Effects. I'd say Andrew Kramer like raised me.
He's like my After Effects dad. Did so much in that side of things. And then. Slowly got more specialized into the motion side of things, like from editing, live production and just like realize that's my passion. That's like where I want to go.
Kyle Harter: Awesome. No, yeah, thanks for that background. And I think to what we're going to talk about maybe later in the conversation is just your business acumen as well.
Since we've worked together a couple times [00:02:00] now before you went freelance, and since then, it's been so cool to see just your grasp on how business strategy works, client relations. How those kind of go hand in hand with the creative so I think that's going to be really cool to dive in in a bit kick this conversation off a little bit.
You know, I want to dive back maybe a little bit towards the beginning. You said you're talking about these inspirations and high school, you had Andrew Kramer as your dad, your After Effects dad. I would love to know, for your first full time job in this space, or maybe not even full time, could be part time too, or maybe your first freelance gig.
What were some of these feelings that, that you were feeling like when you were first getting into it? I'm sure you had to be a little bit scared, maybe a little bit nervous when you were doing this as a job.
Ryan Young: Yeah. I guess it depends on how you want to approach that question. Cause I did motion design. It was a mixture of editing motion design and live production in the first jobs.
I think after that, I realized like this is like motion design is specifically is what I want to go into. After I [00:03:00] worked in that nonprofit sector for a while and doing like everything, like wearing all those hats, I specifically specialized in motion design and freelanced for a while. That. Just didn't work as well as I would hope, honestly.
And there's like the whole story behind that, but I think that the first job, like specifically specializing in motion graphics was. More actually honestly more recently and in the at an agency and I came in like realizing man I I need to learn a good amount In terms of like how to work within like a professional business and in an agency in itself and so I came in like as an intern and there was just like I think a mixture of like imposter syndrome Like lack of confidence and also just like real thinking.
I know motion design is, is an important piece to a business. I just need to prove that out to a company and to myself. [00:04:00] So when I first took the leap and said, I'm going to go full on in motion design and my first job specifically in motion design, I think it was, is this actually going to work? Is this actually valuable to a company?
And just like these doubts of, is this a value to clients, to businesses and doubts in myself, but also like a hope, like a, I hope this is, this works out.
Kyle Harter: Interesting. You say that about the trying to find value in motion design, trying to, or I guess prove this value to this company when you were an intern, were you like the only motion person or did you have these senior artists above you that were guiding you along the way?
Ryan Young: Yeah, this was essentially like the company. Had it done or didn't have an actual team in it. So I came on as an intern on the marketing team. And really that was like, I felt like I had the basics of motion design, but I didn't really grasp [00:05:00] like the value to like how companies use motion design well, and didn't know how to sell that in.
That's partially why I think the freelancing side didn't go so hot. Was 'cause I didn't know who my customer was and didn't know what are the different products that I can offer. And so part of me joining the marketing team as an intern was, I think I just wanted to learn what it was like to be in-house in a company.
So, yeah, to answer your question, really didn't have any one to look up to on the motion side for a while at that company. And was like seeking that honestly from online. I didn't realize that there was a huge community of motion designers that there were other people who are eager to connect. Yeah,
Kyle Harter: where did you find that community of motion designers?
I feel like that's a pinnacle point of if when you're starting out and you feel like you're in like this little vacuum of like just working in your room doing cool stuff [00:06:00] when you're in high school or college or something. And then when you've realized that you need something a little bit bigger than yourself or be a part of something.
bigger than yourself. I feel like that's when you really start to spread your wings a little bit. Is that something that you were like seeking or maybe was it something a little bit different?
Ryan Young: Yeah, at that time I was seeking it, but it wasn't like necessarily finding it. When I came on as an intern, I basically just to work and was like, okay, I'm going to prove my value.
And it eventually turned into a full time job, which was great. And from there we were able to hire like more motion designers at that point. And that was at that point, it was like, wow, I'm hiring these people. And. They have different processes and workflows and they come from agency background that they had processes in their department that I was able to, Oh, wow, that's how you do things.
That's how your workflow goes from like scripting to executing to [00:07:00] delivering. Like, so I learned a ton from even just from the people that were hired around me. And I think that's partially where the community or even like the desire for deeper community came from was just realizing how, how much your peers are able to offer you.
And. Yeah, and, and I think, and we'd have these like different Monday morning calls basically just to connect and say like, Hey, let's bring a, a video that we've recently seen and just dissect it and see like, how do they do that? And so there was a lot of like growth, I think, involved during that point, as soon as like the first Motion Desire came on board and it was just fun.
And I don't think it was until I think we connected and you invited me to Slack and just our little. Friends in Motion community, that part came alive again of realizing how every, there's so many people who do motion design and do it so differently and how much you can learn from different people.
Kyle Harter: Yeah. And it's cool to hear that you've had that experience both as maybe an emerging [00:08:00] motion designer yourself, or when you're really getting into the industry and flash forward to today, whereas I don't think that sense of like community, I guess, goes away or that sense of like value in a community goes away.
Did you find it difficult at all to accept that other people were there to help you and not be in competition per se? Or I ask that because from my experience, when I was first starting out, I was I don't, I haven't fully dissected this in my own brain, but I always thought, so everyone around me this competition, I was a good team player and that I did what I was told.
I wanted to help people like learn after effects, but I always saw other motion people as people in the company as, uh, A little bit of competition and I think it was all in my head. I was never like a radical person in the company, but I always thought that kind of held me back until I was fully able to, like, I don't know when I started getting more into motion design as a freelancer, my first time around when I failed at it, I was like, Oh, there's actually a really [00:09:00] big benefit in just letting people like into your world a little bit.
And they're not all. Competitors, their friends. I know that's a roundabout way of asking that initial question, but yeah, I'm curious to hear what your experience was like with that.
Ryan Young: Yeah, that's a great question, honestly, because I think especially as emerging motion designers, it's so easy to think, have that scarcity mindset that I need to get that deal or that job or.
And in order to do that, I have to be better than the next person to a degree. There's like some truth in that. I think, but at the same time, I think there's, in my experience, there's enough to go around. And when I was at this agency, I think that is the mindset that I had initially. And everyone's like, wow, we've never done this before.
And then when we launched to create the actual, an actual department to bring motion design to our clients. Now, all of a [00:10:00] sudden, I'm a really young leader and manager managing motion designers that have way more experience than me and arguably have more incredible things in their portfolio and styles that I haven't explored.
I know there were many moments where I felt that imposter syndrome come back again. And I do remember a few moments where I think that insecurity came out and I had to reflect and realize, wow, that was a bad leadership moment. That was a bad coworker moment. And yeah, I guess rewind and try to regroup and recreate that, that relational equity with those people.
And so I think it was when I stopped trying to be the one who has all the answers. And realize that we all have this collective like gold that we're able to share with each other and to be able to suggest, Hey, what if [00:11:00] we did this or let's be team players and see what is the best product that we can create.
together versus try to make it a hierarchical type of dynamic.
Kyle Harter: I feel like you're speaking to my like 25 year old self at the moment because like I had, I, I can't remember like the like switch that flipped where I more adapted this mindset that you're talking about the this healthier mindset. That was like pretty challenging because I always felt like I'm an island or like you mentioned like I was the one who had the answers so I have to know everything and if I don't know anything or if I don't know the answer, then I would immediately go into like fraud mode.
It's like, Oh, I'm a fraud. Or maybe I would try to shut the conversation down quietly or something. We're all going to have imposter syndrome. We're all going to have These different insecurities, different times in our careers, at least that's what I've seen in my past, like 10, 10 ish plus years. And I think it's better to [00:12:00] like what you're talking about is acknowledge those moments.
Like when you're talking about the, that was a poor like coworker moment or something like that. I think that's a real sign of growth when you're able to acknowledge that and own it. And then on top of that, Oh, how do I rebuild this relationship or relational equity? With my coworkers or team members, because like you said, at the end of the day, this is all for the better of the product project or whatever the final deliverable is.
And, and I think it's also at the end of the day, like. It takes so much more effort to hold on to hard feelings. It's so much easier just to let people in and just move on with the project, move on with the creative that way. Because I think it's a common feeling that a lot of newer creatives in the industry face.
Did you ever see that with these motion designers that you were hiring, um, when you were in that position?
Ryan Young: I think everyone deals with ego, insecurity. And it comes up and I think there's just the [00:13:00] ability to give some grace for people that, that comes out at times and especially with creatives, I think it's, I think creatives almost have this, what's the word, like reputation sometimes being more emotional, being more personally attached to what they're doing.
There's just like that recognition that we're all human. We all deal with these kinds of things, kind of like what you're saying. And. Just extending a little bit of grace in those moments. Cause yeah, we had, we definitely had people issues in this agency where that would come up and we just have to work through it as a team times and get through it.
I think at the end of the day, when you're able to work as a team and let go of. ego and just say, Hey, what's the best thing that we can create collaboratively? I think that's when creativity is able to spark even more when you're able to let go and just say, I'm going to do the best that I can. This is awesome.
This is what I think is great and not really give as much of a thought towards your ego and just work to the best of your [00:14:00] ability to make the product as best as you can. Based on the brief that you're given.
Kyle Harter: Wow. I think that's like a perfect way to sum up that point. I was thinking we could like shift gears a little bit, maybe more towards the business side of things.
If you're comfortable sharing about the first freelance venture that you went on. Because I feel like that's a common trend with several people on this podcast so far and myself included. Is that we've all tried freelancing at one point, or maybe we were thrown into it and we failed miserably, or maybe not all of us.
I failed miserably.
Ryan Young: Yeah, yeah, totally. I went into freelancing with just the mindset of there's so much opportunity here. Like I'm super talented in what I'm doing. You know, I was in a smaller city where there weren't that many motion designers. So I was thinking like, man, my skillset is needed in this.
In these local businesses. So I was pitching social media content and guess what? Like motion [00:15:00] design is able to do all this stuff for you and really just didn't get traction because I think partially I was my pool of companies that I was going after was so small, like smaller businesses. And then two, I didn't, I didn't just didn't have an understanding of my customer, their needs.
And I was just shooting from the hip, but I think I, for me, I just needed a little bit more, I guess, industry experience or knowledge. It would have been great if I had a community to be able to like reach out to or like a mentor in this space to be able to say like, Hey dude, you need to look elsewhere, like go online and see how motion
Kyle Harter: design is being used.
So what were you pitching at that time that wasn't working in terms of like social media?
Ryan Young: Yeah, I think it was just social media content. And I didn't have a reason for, I was thinking like, Oh, you're going to be able to engage your audience better and be able to stand out. The businesses that I was going to just weren't, they didn't have that problem.
That wasn't like a need for them. The [00:16:00] area that I was in had a good amount of tourism. They could get away with like a static ad from their graphic designer. And the ROI just wasn't there for them. Or honestly, I probably could have sold it in even like more if I had actually put together content and things that like spoke to the outcome.
But for me, I was just like, I didn't know what to do or how to communicate. And. Didn't really have an offering. I think that was focused or defined. And I was also just going after really small businesses. Even I went to like this repair shop and I was like, Oh man, you need some motion design. And they're like, this is repair shop book out of the, the parking lot.
And there, I don't, they didn't really need motion design, I think in. Understanding that as a motion designer, you're solving a problem and but you need to know what that problem is that you're solving before you pitch [00:17:00] something just so you know who your customer can be
Kyle Harter: totally and not everyone has that problem, right?
Some people or some businesses succeed just fine. On a certain type of marketing that doesn't involve animation. Yeah, and I can just imagine like a young Ryan just going into some like auto repair shop while everyone's booked like, you know, out the doors and sweating it out and you're like, yeah, so you guys need some motion design.
You guys could be busier. I don't know. I could just see it coming off the heels that they freelancing that you had and that you were finding to be pretty unsuccessful because you know of everything you just. What, what were you charging at that point? Because I'm sure a lot of new emerging motion designers are curious about that because I think they're going to make a lot of mistakes.
I think they have to. I charged very low rates freelancing when I first started out. So I'm curious to hear what were you trying to leverage in terms of your price for some of these social media, were they campaigns or just [00:18:00] packages?
Ryan Young: To answer that question, I wasn't charging really anything. And I honestly didn't know how long things were going to take and how, how much my rate should be, but I think I was doing like 30 to 40 per hour, but I wasn't charging per hour.
I was just. Basically creating an estimate and then sending that over and saying, Hey, this is what you would, what it needs to be for this project. But I wouldn't, I couldn't even tell you like the package that I offered for social media because I really honestly didn't sell any of those. I think I did some things for a couple production, like small production companies that were local and like a technology company down the road.
Yeah. Yeah, it was not very much income
Kyle Harter: at all. It's interesting to hear that because it's like, Oh, you go to these people and these companies and you're like, Oh, you need this. I don't know what I should charge you for this, but I [00:19:00] know you need it. Like I, I think it's so funny because it's like night and day to how you approach business now, especially at this stint in freelance.
If you're first starting out freelancing, you know, maybe you're early on, you haven't had a ton of industry experience yet. How would you recommend they go about pricing themselves, or should they do the hourly thing? Should they do, try to find more day rates versus project rates? Yeah, what do you suggest there?
Ryan Young: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I think it might depend on how much experience they have. Project rates are just generally better for the person and for, Bye. The client as well. However, like when I was just getting started, I didn't know how long things were going to take. There's a case for charging an hourly rate at a lower rate and just like getting some experience and just saying, Hey, I'll do this for this much.
Here's what it's, I think it's going to cost. If it's [00:20:00] a lower rate, then maybe you'll get more, just more projects and experience if this is like maybe your first. job in motion, like your first freelance jobs in motion. But I would, I would definitely from there, like scale into saying like, now I've done a few jobs.
I can confidently say, this is going to take a full day, like eight hours. So I'm going to charge a day rate now. And I'm going to charge Or a project rate and say, like, I can confidently say that I can create these social media ads animated in two days. Here's how much two days would be if I get it done earlier than that's just extra money in my pocket.
And then being able to go from there. That is my thought is. Maybe start off with just understanding your time, how you value your time, how long things take, and then start charging at a project.
Kyle Harter: I think that's a great approach to, to think about it from because I'm sure so many [00:21:00] times when people are first starting out there, they're just wanting a number or a formula, right?
They'll have a number, add 20 percent for profit. I think there's so much more to it than that from like a psychological standpoint. I think we'll get into it pretty soon, like a strategy standpoint. I think there's a common faults that a lot of like early motion designers will make. And that is, Oh, I'm only going to budget enough time for like exactly how long.
They're trying to nail down a specific number as opposed to, Oh, this might take me 10 hours. But I'm like, maybe it makes sense to actually budget 20 in case if and when things go wrong. Because. I think we've all found ourselves, especially early in our career, and probably still now, I know for me, is you'll get into something and After Effects will start messing up, or Illustrator's not pushing things over to After Effects the right way, or the 3D render is just not working.
Maybe that's just something you learn with experience.
Ryan Young: Yeah, that's a really good point. Just get out there, make some mistakes, charge, you're gonna maybe charge less than [00:22:00] you would in the future, but you see that and you're like, okay, next time I'm gonna charge what I'm worth. Yeah. Or maybe you're going to overcharge the client and realize, okay, maybe I won't charge that much for this type of project in the future in the end.
It just takes experience and understanding like, okay, this is the project, this is how long it's going to take. Like learning that and then moving forward from there.
Kyle Harter: Yeah, I think because there's sometimes I think, especially while doing this podcast that, Oh, maybe I'll be able to deliver the perfect advice to new motion designer, and they'll be able to charge perfectly from jump.
The more and more I talk with these everyday motion designers like yourself, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that they just have to make the mistakes. To start out, I think what I'm learning from this podcast is that we can help them, like, maybe reduce the amount of mistakes, maybe shorten that gap a little bit of time from um, Realizing pricing and everything, the mistakes are kind of essential.[00:23:00]
Ryan Young: It's really just getting out there and doing projects. Hopefully the podcast kind of shares experience and people can take out like, Oh, maybe I, I was about to do that. Maybe I won't do that because of what they said.
Kyle Harter: It's like, I'm not going to go to this car repair mechanic and just offer a social media package.
That they probably don't need. Yeah, probably they don't need that. Since we've like dove into a lot of this part of your previous freelance life, I would love to flash forward to current day freelance Ryan. So you went freelance, Uh, you might have to remind me of the exact date, because I think we all have like maybe a date in mind for our freelance versary.
It was, was it July or August of 2023 that you officially went freelance?
Ryan Young: Yeah, my official anniversary will be July 19th. So, I'm about, what is that, 7, 8 months in?
Kyle Harter: Awesome. And, and before we go further, you have to celebrate that every year it can be something small or big, but I think that is [00:24:00] such a fun part because, you know, we don't get company parties being freelancers.
Yeah, just throwing that out there. When I had my one year, I bought an espresso machine. I love that. Yeah, it's. Comparing these two different times of your life, there was a stint in there where you were at your previous company full time job for, you might have to correct me on the timeline here, how many years were you between freelance, full time, and then now freelance?
Ryan Young: Oh man, I have to go back to my LinkedIn honestly and see.
Kyle Harter: Like a rough estimate, yeah.
Ryan Young: Yeah, I think that's around like two years in freelance, three, three years or more in full time, and then now eight or nine months back in it on my own.
Kyle Harter: Awesome. Okay, cool. So you had between freelance stint of two years and then your freelance, current freelance state.
There's about a three year window where you were full time. Mm hmm. And we've chatted quite a bit about business, about money, of course, and client [00:25:00] relationships in those three years from, you know, your full time agency that you were at, what changed? How did you bridge this gap to becoming the more confident freelancer you are today?
Ryan Young: I know it's crazy that it was like a three year gap, but I felt like, um, it was like going to school and just. Drinking out of a water fountain or fire hydrant for just those three years. I think I was really fortunate to come in when I did as an intern and then on the marketing side and learn a lot about how we do our internal like marketing.
Workflow and everything. And that was really nice to be able to be part of that team. But then I think the big shift happened when the CEO was like, Hey, we, this has been working really well for our marketing, let's launch this and bring motion graphics to our own clients. Cause there wasn't really a video department at that point.
And so essentially like him, me, another one of the [00:26:00] other co founders. I started just pitching clients and almost like building the plane as we were taking off and creating like different offerings around motion graphics and explainer videos. It was really challenging, I'd say, but I learned a lot just about even just got getting a look at the financial side of things and the.
Productizing what we're doing or just getting on pitches and proposals and just being able to really fail at public speaking or presenting, but eventually slowly getting better and better at it and feeding off of the energy of the other people around me, being able to answer questions. There was a lot that I've just learned.
By doing, and that was just a really good opportunity for, for me to partner with them to grow a department. And I think part of that is just, it's, it has to be like business, like you have to understand. Like the execution as [00:27:00] well as the business development side, like the growth side of things in order to
Kyle Harter: move forward.
Totally. It seems like that was such a vital part of your education as a professional too, because you know, not, it's not just like a, an internship where you have like 20 hours a week unpaid sometimes or most likely you're in the throes of actual business development for clients. And I know from experience from when I first started jumping into freelance years ago in my field stint, I had zero knowledge of how businesses work.
I just thought I know motion design or I knew after effects. I didn't think I really knew motion design like I know it now. I know after effects, so people are going to want that because and me assuming that some coffee shop down the street is going to know what after effects is. But when you're going through the throes of this business development, building a creative team, building a creative offering for clients, were you allowed to fail when you were growing this team?
Or what did failure kind of look like?
Ryan Young: I think in the beginning, the expectations were [00:28:00] high, like we're going to grow this department. There's arguably, we didn't really meet expectations a lot of the time, but The expectations were there that was our financial goals. These are how many clients we need in order to hit that.
Like how many things we need to sell in. I wouldn't say we were allowed to fail, but I think there was a little bit more leniency. Knowing that we were a developing department and you got an intern over here who just got a full time job going from intern to full time. So there was a lot of coaching moments and I was really fortunate, I think, to have some moments where I learned from those mistakes.
There was a threshold of how much failing. And what was helpful was that I put my all into it. Doing the best I could, and I think that was recognized, I was trying my best.
Kyle Harter: Talking about reasoning with yourself that, like, your best was good enough. Were you feeling comfortable with that, or were you having to, like, fight [00:29:00] these?
insecurities that we've talked about that a lot of us experience of, oh, this isn't good enough, or I could have done better and get upset over it.
Ryan Young: Dude, that's 1000%. That's what I was going through in the beginning, especially was just that feeling like I don't belong here. Everyone is so much smarter than me.
I had no idea what. ABM or I don't know what, what paid media even means. I don't know what actually the customer even wants to hear from me. And so I was just like saying things that I thought sounded smart and then putting my foot into my mouth and trying to do the best I could. So yeah, to answer that question, I definitely did not feel like my best was good enough.
I think it wasn't until I started just owning my specific space of creative and what I love about motion design and brought that to the table. And just let other people take on some of the, the [00:30:00] questions around certain things and like learn from that the next time they came up. That was when I think things started shifting to where I was like, okay, I can stay in my lane and that's okay.
There was a moment, actually one of my recent clients now that I'm out of this company came back to me, but they were actually one of my first clients that I had. And I like bombed the first kickoff call. Like, I, I was trying to look at their brand and be all creative directory and bring up different things that I've heard and ask questions that really weren't relevant.
And the co founder was on a call with me and afterwards he was like, Dude, that was good. That was okay. That was good. I'm sure it's how well we could have done better. And then it just came up. I don't know a lot about the industry and trying my best to have the confidence and ask the questions [00:31:00] that are needed.
But I think I'm getting in my head. And so he, at that point, he was just like, why did you get into this field in the first place? And that was when things like started clicking for me. I got into motion design and I think it clicked for me because like even just presentations like public speaking, having a voice wasn't really my thing.
But like when I'm able to manipulate text and motion and, and illustrations to create a message that actually resonates with people, it's a lot more sticky than just speaking. Like I'm able to craft. a message. That's when things started sticking or clicking for me, where I was like, wow, this is the crux of What the business solution the business value that motion design has on these different clients like I can speak from that place and so that's kind of what shifted for me was I was just like, I'm just going to speak to what I'm confident in and what I love about [00:32:00] motion.
And ask the questions that I
need to get clarity.
Kyle Harter: Wow. Okay. So that was amazing. So there's a couple of things I want to peel back from that. First of all, this way that co founder you mentioned asked this question to you. It was like, why did you get into this? Like, why do you do this? And that like being a switch for you, would you say that that moment had an impact on how you approach client relationships now in your freelance career?
Ryan Young: Yeah, absolutely. I think. That gave me a little bit more confidence in, I think, even just the purpose of, or my purpose in my role as a motion designer, and then the purpose of motion design itself, and speaking from, like, that place of, hey, this is a valuable asset for your company, and this is specifically what is valuable about motion design, and this is how I fit into that place, and not just, not trying to wear all the hats, [00:33:00] That I don't need to wear and being able to lean on the expertise of other people.
I think it helped, it didn't remove it altogether, but it helped with that imposter syndrome and it helped with having a basis, like a foundation for how to communicate with clients from a place of, I think, a little bit more authenticity than I was going into before.
Kyle Harter: Wow. Hey, I feel like that's such a significant sign of growth as well is like you mentioned before is like only asking the questions that you needed to ask and not try to be this like people pleasing creative director type.
There's obviously a little bit of that that I think is still needed to just being a nice person and like being a human with people, but being able to own that now, I feel like is something that I know I struggled with when I first started because I thought going back to the beginning of our conversation when we thought that we had to be the experts in the room on this thing, or we had to just be [00:34:00] the one in a way in the room, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this.
From my perspective, I think if these emerging motion designers are able to, like, own that earlier on in their career, one, it's okay to just not know something, say if, you know, if a client is coming to you, or I guess even if you're in a studio environment, I feel like if, say, if you're a creative director or CEO or however your studio is set up.
Our agency is structured, like they ask you, can you do this? Um, I think there's a little bit of like, fake it till you make it. Or if they ask, I don't know, maybe some like client specific questions. I think there can be a tendency for creative, like younger creatives to really say, Oh yeah, of course I know how to do this.
Or if they bring them into a client call and they just botch it, I think there's, there's definitely room for you to own not knowing how to do something. And I guess I'm going to flip that into a question for you. How, how do you think these emerging motion designers like own not knowing [00:35:00] something when they're like earlier on in their career, whether freelance or.
In a studio or agency environment.
Ryan Young: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think there is, like you're saying, a level of fake it till you make it that's acceptable. And I think it is just important to not go too far with that because I think there is part of client relationship is creating that confidence and authority that you are the person that, you know, that they want to hire and that they should have hired.
there is that threshold of, um, that level of fake it until you make it that is acceptable. But I think you do need to have. You need to balance the honesty, ethical responsibility to let someone know, hey, this is a little bit out of my skill. This is something that I think I haven't worked with before.
Someone you might be better off with going with this person over here that I'm [00:36:00] connected with. And there's a level of, I think, honesty. That's needed to just, in general, just develop that relationship with that client. I think, in the long run, that's better, because they'll come back to you for something else, or something that does fit within your skill level, or you can just keep that relationship in the future.
You've just surpassed what you've been, since they know you and, but they trust you, and that's all that's needed, um, to, When their trust in the future as well.
Kyle Harter: Yeah.
Ryan Young: Um, but what I would say is that it comes to specific questions that you're not sure, like if there's a specific thing that someone's asking you to do that, you're not sure if you're able to do it.
What I've done in the past is just say, let me look into this. This isn't something that I normally produce or I haven't done this before, but I have, I know. Where to start, can I get back to you on whether or not I'd feel comfortable moving forward? And I think they appreciate that. And so like [00:37:00] recently had something along those lines, ended up doing a little bit of like research and development for them and that they were happy to pay for as well.
And they came back to them with some like style frames and they were like, yeah, this is actually what we wanted. Let's move forward with the full project, but I think that also develops trust because you're not saying this is how much it's going to cost. It's going to cost like a crazy amount because I don't know how to do it.
It develops trust because you're saying like, I don't know how to do this exactly, but let me do some research and get back to you.
Kyle Harter: There can be a stigma to, especially for us motion designers, when if we think that we have to know everything or we have to be the best generalist that knows how to do all these things.
I think there's a lot of value in what you're saying of Say a potential client or someone at the studio you're working at comes to you and asked if you can do this. I think there is a certain level of like transparency to have [00:38:00] that does help build trust like you're talking about because I think if you're able to tell them that it's sure I may not have this skill set this exact second, but I have the skill set of research.
I have the skill set of asking other people how to do it or something like this. I feel like owning that you may not be able to do this immediate ask and. For all we know, they may not even need that ask, but that's maybe that's a different tangent, but you may not be able to own that specific thing, but I feel like you can own to at least give them an answer of, hey, I like what you're talking about.
I don't know how to do this yet, but let me look into it. Or I may not be the right person for the job. Let me recommend one or two other people that may be a good fit. Or maybe a third option, right? If it's a project rate, let me manage this project for I'll take a percentage of this, but let the artist do all the work.
So I think there's, it's never just, I guess maybe to simplify all that from my end is there's not just like a yes or [00:39:00] no answer. I feel like with your goal being to build trust with a client and build relationships. This kind of going about it the way that you're talking about is that's how you get repeat clients because you're seen as a problem solver.
Like what we've been talking about throughout this conversation and not just like a after effects button pusher at the end of the day. And I feel like there's that goes a long way. I think
Ryan Young: that's a really good way to put it. Yeah. And position yourself as the problem solver as a partner in wanting the best quality product for the client.
I think that goes a long way and it just, you're right. There's so many different ways to accomplish the problem. It could be any of those. three or four different ways that you said. But if you're the one who is partnering with the client and they feel that trust aspect is really what this what's important.
Kyle Harter: 100 percent Awesome. So I know we've been talking for a while. I would love to touch on one last thing [00:40:00] and we've talked about this a bit in our tech run before the this recording and focusing on this the present time now that you're a freelancer, you're doing it right. At least from a lot of us who are all watching you, you're doing it right.
And We've spoken about the concept of balance, like work life balance. I know there's a, it's very common as a freelancer to have like poor work life balance and I've had it in waves since I've gone to like, there's times where I'm double or triple booked and I'm just like, My, my taking care of myself goes out the window is the first thing usually.
Curious from your perspective, how has your, uh, relationship with the work-life balance started when you were freelancing and where is that now?
Ryan Young: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm pretty passionate about this topic right now because I am doing it like this year is like, the word of this year is basically balance. is, is, that's the division trying to achieve that because at the end of the day, that's why I.
Went [00:41:00] off on my own in the first place and. That's the vision that I have for the long term as well is having something that's sustainable with still solid pipeline, something that's well oiled and able to align the level of take care of me and my family while also giving me the lifestyle that I'm looking for.
And that's, that's amazing that when you're on your own, you can be the one who shapes that. So, to answer your question around what it looked like before, what does it look like now, to be honest, I think as soon as I finished college and I started my first job, I was, I mean, I was pulling all nighter for school and I was like, I'll just bring that, that mindset into the work life.
Kyle Harter: What's the worst that could happen?
Ryan Young: I was just like, I don't know what my And I was salary at that point, so I don't know what my hourly rate was if we like really looked at how many hours I worked, but it was not healthy. And I think I burned myself out a little bit from that job. [00:42:00] And so I went into freelance from there and just the work was not there.
You could argue that the work life balance was great. And then I went back and started this agency and it was pretty intense at some points and I think I wrapped a lot of my identity into performance and what I'm doing there, what's growing, what's working, what's not. And when you're doing that, it's really easy to, I think, overwork and maybe stress yourself out.
To me, like balance is not just like how many hours you're working, but. It is, I think, the headspace that you're able to come home to and just be able to like remember that you're just a human being and take care of yourself. And so, like, fast forwarding to now, this last few months, uh, this like kind of first eight, nine months of freelancing has been really encouraging because I think I went into it being fearful.
Is this going to be a repeat of that? [00:43:00] the first go around. And it's been really encouraging because I think it has, like the work has been there, clients have been happy, been really liking the projects that I'm on. But I don't think the balance has been achieved. Like the, I have stressed at different points, like juggling multiple projects or like trying to make a deadline and just, okay, I need to work until like into the evening now.
And so, yeah, and I think it's just, like you said, there's fluctuations and there's different seasons that. Your work goes up and your normal life goes down and that's normal as long as there's like an end in sight. But what I'm hoping for is creating a little bit less fluctuation and a little bit more, Hey, I know what's coming and I know how to balance that and keep it at that, that level that feels right for what the lifestyle that I want it to live.
Kyle Harter: Yeah, man, that's like really important. You know, we talked about all the business stuff. We've talked about the, how [00:44:00] to talk to clients, all this freelancing stuff. I think, sure, there's like a important value that's put upon that, but I think this part of the conversation when you're talking about balance is, I think that's become the status quo when you first start out of grind, grind, like who cares about sleep, just go at it, because I think a lot of us, me included, feel like we, um, I don't know if you feel this way, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I've always felt like I was behind because I got into motion after I got into film.
And even when I was in film school, I didn't really edit or do anything with computers. I was more about writing and trying to produce. So when I got into the actual computer side of things, I felt like I was like four or five years behind. And I felt like that for so long. It's refreshing when I hear other people have gone through that.
Maybe that's a little bit morbid because it's like, oh, you also stayed up late and like really put your health in a dire straits. Cool. We have a little like trauma bonding there. Yeah. But, [00:45:00] you know, hearing you say this is as a freelancer, I think you even have, I don't know, it's even harder to do it now because you control it, right?
I feel like if you have a nine to five, there's a certain level of balance that's already done for you in a way, you know, you don't have to worry about those hours of the day, whereas especially the kind of freelance work that you do when you're doing a bunch of project rate type stuff, it's like that's up to you to balance, right?
You have to build that schedule. So then you can fit your lifestyle into that and It's so easy. Like once that what projects say one deadline gets like pushed back a little bit and it messes up the whole schedule, it's easy for your lifestyle to just not exist, or at least the lifestyle you wanted not exist.
So all of that to say is I want to put, I want to give you a lot of like props on like owning that, because I'm sure you're saying, or maybe you're just being on the planet for this long, just how important it is to find some kind of balance where you can be you both in the business and out of the business at the same time.
Ryan Young: Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks, man. I appreciate [00:46:00] that.
Kyle Harter: So on the heels of you really focusing on balance now at this point in your career, what kind of insight could you provide to these emerging motion designers as they get into the industry? Because I feel like grinding really hard when you first start is sometimes an expectation and maybe it's just old school way of thinking.
Do you think there's any insight you could provide into maybe how they maybe don't have to grind as hard while still leveling up their skills and Gaining more experience in the industry that way.
Ryan Young: I
think
there is a season where it is great to spend a little bit more time to hone your skills and really get that experience that we're talking about.
I think generally that is earlier in your career as you're getting started. But I don't think that it should be at the expense of your emotional being, your physical well being. Like if it is, I think that there's that, the toxic culture around get it, [00:47:00] grinding it out, like doing, like putting in the hours.
I think that it should come from a place of passion versus a place of comparison or a place of trying to be. on the level of someone else. Just finding your own voice is what the purpose of the earlier years are. And I'm actually really glad for those two years that I was really just like wandering in freelance because it gave me something to, it gave, it told me, Hey, these are the things that you need to be looking out for.
When you do have a full time position, you can learn these things. And it gave me more, better appreciation for. And then things to learn to look out for in the growth side of things or grinding it out and that company, I think like working so hard did in the end help me like hone my motion skills, business acumen.
And yes, there were, there were moments I do regret putting. work over just life and just [00:48:00] emotional well being. So I definitely wouldn't say that it was a perfect thing, but I think for each individual, just understanding like, what is, what is coming from a place of passion and like, this is acceptable amount of time going towards this in this season and then deciding that for yourself.
But I definitely would prioritize your own health over, and just be self aware of where that. That that's coming from because I could not sleep and work on a project if it's coming out of a place of, of passion. And I'm like, Really just enjoying myself. Of course, I don't want to do that because I have other responsibilities
in life.
Kyle Harter: Totally. And, uh, I think that's really well said too. We get. Hey, I feel like maybe we're circling around this topic a bit, but it's an important one because I think I'm paraphrasing what you said before, but you said it so well, glad it was recorded, but the grind is worth it if you believe in it.
Hopefully that doesn't get [00:49:00] taken the like in a toxic direction of overworking yourself, but we all know that you can get lost in something. And I feel like those are the things to invest your time in. As opposed to, Oh, I have to learn this skill because I don't know, everyone else is doing it or something, but I feel like early in your career is a time where you learn how to set boundaries both with yourself and others.
So I think the earlier you're able to find out what those pressure pressure points, but where those thresholds are and that in comparison with your passion for something. I feel like that is like some really valuable like self evaluation and reflection that you can undertake to, I don't know, to really build a good life for yourself and a healthy life at that.
Because this, I feel like this industry is so cool. It's provided all of us a really good life. I don't think we have to be subjected to, I don't know, pain at all times or later on in our career from bad posture or sleep, like [00:50:00] sleepless nights or anything like that later on. When we have families, we have all this other stuff that's taking our priority.
Ryan Young: I dealt with a lot of, I think, comparison or just feeling like, feeling like you're behind on things and other people were. Much further ahead of you. Um, something that I think I realized towards the end of that, like kind of early season in motion design was it's completely okay to just be in this kind of exploratory, still finding your voice phase of your career.
I kind of have, it's this idea that this is the appetizer. Stage of life. And there's like a whole nine courses ahead of you and just being okay with, Hey, this is the appetizers. It's okay. If other people are going, getting their fill, you have like food envy next door to you and just being like, okay, like this is my portion.
Like this is the, what I have right now. I'm going to learn as much as I can from it. I'm going to [00:51:00] explore as much as I can. And just talking about letting the passion be the thing that, That drives you forward towards finding your direction in this industry because there's so many different directions to take.
Yeah, just being encouraged that there's a lot more years ahead and you're going to find that place that really brings you life and allows you to find the place of creative fulfillment, balance, whatever that is.
Kyle Harter: Awesome. That's a, I think that's a perfect point to bring this conversation to a close.
Thank you, Ryan, so much for being on the Everyday Emotion podcast. I think we've talked about everything from freelancing, I think in its entirety across the gamut, but to also diagnosing a little bit of imposter syndrome, figuring out a little bit more of your purpose and just how not to pitch social media packages to repair shops.
But Ryan, thank you so much for hanging out with us. Can you just give us a quick rundown of how people can find your work online and if they want to reach out to you as well, how they can do [00:52:00] that?
Ryan Young: Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Um, yeah, you can find me vimeo. com slash Ryan Young video.
Kyle Harter: Thank you so much, Ryan.
I want to thank Ryan Young so much for chatting with us today. You can find links to his work in the show notes, so definitely go give him a follow and reach out to connect with him. I hope you were able to take something valuable away from our conversation today and relate to it in a way that can help you on your journey to becoming an everyday motion designer.
Thank you for being a fan of the show and please subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcast. You can follow the podcast on Instagram at everyday motion dot podcast. Don't hesitate to reach out with any questions, feedback or any other way that you'd like to support the show. Today's music is brought to you by the artist Cosmonkey and the song is titled Feel the Night.
Also, I'd love to give a big shout out to Matthew Johnston for mixing today's episode. And another big shout out to a fellow motion designer, Maddie Alexander, [00:53:00] for editing the episode as well. Thank you both so much. The show would not be possible without your help. Thank you once again for tuning in, and we look forward to sharing our next conversation with you.
Now let's kick it to the music.