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Can Simulated Golf Build Real Community? What if golf’s next great clubhouse is in your neighborhood?
In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine sits down with Jeff Testa, founder of Neighborhood National, to explore how golf simulators, technology, and shared spaces are reshaping the way golfers connect, practice, and build community.
The conversation dives into:
- How technology and simulators are expanding access to golf
- Why municipal and local golf remains vital for affordability and inclusion
- The entrepreneurial journey behind Neighborhood National
- The balance between altruism and business in golf
- How social connection fuels the next era of the game
Connect with our guest
⛳ Jeff Testa — https://www.neighborhoodnationalgc.com — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/GolfNeighbor | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neighborhood.national | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-testa-86507823a/
Join the NewClub community
🌍 Website: https://www.newclub.golf
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/newclubgolf/
🐦 X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/newclubgolf
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@newclubgolf
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub
Links & Partners
🏡 Neighborhood National: https://www.neighborhoodnationalgc.com
🏌️ Titleist: https://www.titleist.com
🌐 Golf Blueprint: https://www.golfblueprint.com
Listen to The Bag Drop
🎧 Transistor: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/
Connect with Matt & The Professor
🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/
📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/
🗣️ Contribute to the show! — 📧 email: thebagdrop@newclub.golf
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Golf and Community Engagement
02:36 The Rise of Municipal Golf and Accessibility
05:36 Transitioning from Corporate to Startup Life
08:06 Building a Home Golf Simulator
10:46 The Concept of Neighborhood National
13:41 The Evolution of Golf Simulators
16:19 Cultural Shifts in Golf Participation
20:21 Altruism vs. Business in Golf
23:02 Community and Golf: A Shared Experience
25:57 The Importance of Social Connections in Golf
28:42 The Future of Golf Technology
31:38 Navigating the Golf Industry Landscape
34:08 The Role of Neighborhood National in Golf
36:56 Closing Thoughts and Future Aspirations
What is NewClub?
Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.
What is The Bag Drop?
The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses, and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.
Creators and Guests
Host
Matt Considine
Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.
Host
The Professor
NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.
What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?
Weekly stories from the communities and characters shaping the game. The Bag Drop blends thoughtful, honest perspectives of Matt Considine (Founder of NewClub) and Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") with expert insights for passionate golfers at every level. Produced by NewClub and supported by our members, each episode welcomes guests from clubs, courses, and the lesser-known corners of the golf world for thoughtful discussions on all things golf and life.
Founded in 2017, NewClub is the first of its kind golf society in the United States; blending the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability more typical of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, along with signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is on a mission to revolutionize golf membership, making the game more meaningful for everyone who loves it.
Listen, rate, review, and subscribe to The Bag Drop:
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bag-drop-untold-stories-in-golf/id1430328006
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Website: https://www.newclub.golf
Matt Considine (00:01.582)
Welcome to the bag drop untold stories in golf. I'm your host, Matt Constantine, founder of new club here for another week. got a great guest today lined up a new friend of mine in the golf industry, Jeff Testa. This is a gentleman with 20 years of experience in the corporate world. He was a leader at some fortune 500s and he made that massive transition that I did many years ago into startup life.
Jeff Testa (00:27.043)
you
Matt Considine (00:29.554)
And he's now amongst my rank of entrepreneurs in this golf space. So the guy's become an expert on simulator screen golf, a space that we've talked about a lot on this show, but not had somebody kind of with his Intel on. So I'm really excited to talk to him. He is the founder of Neighborhood National, which we're going to talk about plenty, I'm sure. But the mission is near and to my heart and it's making golf accessible, affordable, inclusive. If you're listening to show, you probably believe that as well.
Before we get to the show, quick little carve out. I recently had an experience, I talked to the professors ear off about it driving home, but I wanna give some love to municipal golf, community golf space. I know we got a lot of listeners in Northeast Ohio. I played Highland Park the other day, a 36 hole golf facility with some incredible history. know, host Cleveland Opens, Cleveland Ams.
I think it was Palmer won the Cleveland open there and just a place that had better days, kind of south and conditions and whatnot. Played some junior golf there. I could remember back in the day, but nothing, nothing truly memorable. Well, let me tell you this course, if there was ever a revival in Northeast Ohio that was worthy of a touch up, it's this place. The land is fantastic. It's,
Literally just made for great golf Ridge lines and hills and all kinds of really cool stuff. It's a very walkable Incredible walking experience, you know, it's out in nature now a lot of nature that may be overwhelmed some of the course at one point It's been been managed and pushed back but rolling hills ridge lines ravines. It's it's incredible It really is and the reason I'm giving it a shout out today is Things like that just don't happen. You know, these revivals it is a community
golf effort there or community effort and a nonprofit, the Highland Park Golf Association Golf Foundation has been raising money to try to get this place back to its original shine. And they do need funding, they need some agronomy, they need a lot of TLC, but they got some stewardship. So if you're listening and in the area, hit me up, I'll go out and go with you that support community golf. They could be a shining example of what.
Matt Considine (02:55.598)
what we love on this show, what we love at New Club and could be something pretty special for Cleveland and Cleveland golfers. So with that, I am professor-less today. So I don't have his fact of the week, but I'm talking to a smart guy today. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go get some smart facts. So the professor's fact is getting taken over by yours truly. I wanna start with municipal golf. It kind of has to do with my shout out there to Highland Park.
Jeff Testa (03:16.515)
Thank
Matt Considine (03:23.65)
Municipal golf it was created in 1895 Van Cortland Park golf course in Bronx, New York. That was the original Muni Muni golf Was intended to create access. It was viewed as an inaccessible sport to most That's what they set out to do. We got about 3,000 Muni golf courses in the US now and and you know, it it is in decline golf supply in general is
but I think it's 13 % since 2006 on the green grass side of golf facilities. Yet golf participation, particularly under, you know, income brackets of 150,000 is up 15 % since that same time. So you got a drop in supply, you got increase in people looking to play. And I think that increase is even higher in larger thresholds or over that 100K amount. So enter screen golf. I looked up some stats from our friends at
the National Golf Foundation, 8.14 million participants last year in 2024. That is 126 % increase since 2019. So thank you, COVID. Roughly half of that number only play sim, like simulators and screens, that's where they play. And the other half is green grass. So that stat alone kind of shook me looking it up last night.
But I think in general, the golf industry has largely made the case that simulators are complimentary to on course golf, what we do here at New Club. I know, I believe it doesn't compete, but frankly, I'm not so certain. So I'm excited to talk to our guest today, hear his thoughts on that, hear his thoughts on just the nature of all this, where it's all headed. And before we get there, some New Club happenings.
Got a shout out last week's Chicago club championship at the Dunes Club. Congrats. Congrats to everybody who made the sweet 16. It is such a special day, but our champions, Xander Nethercutt, he put on a clinic by the sounds of it. He survived two rounds of sudden death playoffs, including one against our four time club champ, four in a row club champ going for.
Matt Considine (05:45.346)
the very rare fifth club champion in a row, Brian McCarty. He took him down. I hate to say it. I didn't predict Xander would do it, but I did predict he would do it. Somebody would do it. And he made a real clutch putt to beat Jordan Gottlieb in the finals. And then our net division champ, Kyle Brehm. Congratulations. Again, I'll toot my own horn. do these silly predictions before all of our new club, club championships and...
I hadn't get into the finals. did not predict Brian Bodile getting there as well. He proved me wrong. congrats to Kyle. Kyle beat Brian in the net division. That day, you know, it embodies what New Club is all about. Competition, camaraderie, chasing a little white ball and making some memories. So thanks to everybody who participated. Congratulations to Chicago's Club champs. Welcome new members of New Club, Michael Kemper.
Justin Kumar, Michael Zanin, Kyle Leonard, Kevin Duck, Mark Smollens, Justin Gar. Welcome to the club, gentlemen. Looking forward to sharing some swings with you all soon. The Bag Drop is in partnership with Titleist and their all new line of alignment golf balls. Designed to improve confidence, aim, accuracy. You can explore their all new lineup of alignment-focused golf balls and find the best one for you over at Titleist.com. Without further ado.
On to the show.
Jeff Testa, welcome to the bag drop.
Jeff Testa (07:12.567)
I appreciate you having me, bud. Fun to be here.
Matt Considine (07:14.798)
I enjoyed our first couple conversations so much. I'm like, hey, you mind if we record this?
Jeff Testa (07:18.275)
Happy too.
Matt Considine (07:22.52)
So I did a little bio on you in the interlude there. I guess my first question for you might be a selfish one, maybe more personal in nature, but I'm asking for a friend, I promise. What advice would you give someone who wants to build a golf simulator at home but doesn't know exactly how to pitch it to the rest of the family, potentially spouses and others?
Jeff Testa (07:35.843)
Okay.
Jeff Testa (07:47.681)
Yeah, I'll give you my approach and I promise you, well, it depends on the circumstance. My approach was, hey honey, I think I'm going to put a simulator out back and see if anybody wants to share it. And it was, that was not the assumed close. That was the, I'm floating this test balloon and you got to, so yeah, it's like any sales guy, person, you need to know who you're selling to. And she was like, all right, that sounds good. Probably not the situation that many people are in.
Yeah, outside of that, I'd say it's what you have in your head. A couple of things come to mind. There's absolutely family value in it for sure. Golf takes a long time to generally play. It's not that simulators are, they can be affordable, right? But yeah, maybe it's A, these things can absolutely be affordable. B, there's absolutely a family pitch to be made.
and then the last thing, and I, came to mind, just thinking about it. it's not the exact analogy, but there's another podcast of our friends, chasing scratch guys, Mike and Eli. So Mike's a Greensboro guy. and so I, it's like, like, like the, the, the, integration concept comes to mind, right? The opportunity.
Matt Considine (09:03.21)
Integration.
Jeff Testa (09:04.271)
the integration concept, check it out, it's a fun angle. But anyhow, my point is start small and yeah, things evolve over time, right? It's iterative, right? These things aren't expensive. They can be 500 bucks. Yeah, and then you need a new net and all of you got a new TV and like, things slowly emerge over time. So you don't need to pitch the big grand vision to start. You just need buy-in to start.
Matt Considine (09:14.691)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (09:29.535)
And then, yeah, it's a passion project. And it gets better and better and better with time and a little integration along the way.
Matt Considine (09:29.644)
Yep.
Matt Considine (09:35.672)
That resonates with me, the kind of build up scenario, because when we first moved in together, we lived in a tiny Chicago apartment on the North side. I kind of just laid the foundation of this is, there's gotta be a golf space. There's gotta be some little corner sliver of this arena. And I took one of those Dick's Sporting Goods clothes down and they had all the golf turf. So I grabbed one out the back of their,
Jeff Testa (09:51.948)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (10:05.786)
dumpster and actually brought it home and it was perfect. You know, like you don't miss putz on that stuff. But I, but I always, I had to actually cut it when we moved apartments to fit in. So, so at least I have some foundation of there's going to be golf in your life, you know, regardless, or in your home, in your living quarters. Did
Jeff Testa (10:08.427)
You
You
Jeff Testa (10:22.913)
Yeah, yeah, no, you got that. Yeah, yeah, well, and obviously, key ingredient is a very understanding spouse is the first thing, and most of us have those. So you got, yes, there's that that goes into it.
Matt Considine (10:34.444)
Well, I consider what we both are doing for a living. I'm sure they both are. So you said to be shared with others. That was going to be one of my early questions for you. like, was that on the onsite? Was that like right out the gate? said, you know what, I'm going to open it up to people in the neighborhood. Or was this going to be like, you know, the personal man cave that
Jeff Testa (10:37.699)
there you go.
Matt Considine (10:58.69)
then got it, but you said you off the start off the hop, you're like, I'm going to open it up and share it, which is different.
Jeff Testa (11:06.627)
Yeah, it was absolutely the idea. say it was I'm a simulator. I wouldn't necessarily have gotten to going and putting a simulator. I I wouldn't have gotten there had I not had more of the business idea in mind to start. So the idea was, the idea, yeah, there's, you let me know if and when and how we want to get into the backstory. But yes, the idea was, yeah, it was so,
Matt Considine (11:27.918)
Let's do it.
Jeff Testa (11:31.523)
Well, yes, the idea was simulator to start. And literally it was over the course of a weekend, I got to the sharing model, which isn't a unique model. And since then it's evolved a ton. I used to pitch this as air. I started pitching this as Airbnb for golf simulators and I do my best to not, because it's not, we're not that. It's where we started. It was an easy pitch. It was easy for people to connect the dots right away.
but it immediately associated us with something that we are just fundamentally not in any way shape or form, right? So, yeah, that's a little bit of...
Matt Considine (12:05.24)
People like having the thing that they know be, and the thing that they don't know be described as the thing that they know. It's like, I can't tell you how many times this happened to me. So I hear what you're saying. It's like the Airbnb of it gets it in their head, but from what I've seen, you guys are different.
Jeff Testa (12:13.303)
Yes. Yes.
Jeff Testa (12:22.527)
were very different and honestly Airbnb was what I had to start what I started with so like quick backstory I grew up and I grew well I grew up around the Twin Cities when I told you I ramble so here we go I went through graduate school got out of graduate school took a couple months off before I actually got into the real world and guess what I did I golfed a lot
And that was the mission. told my then girlfriend, now wife, I said, I'm taking two months off. I'm golfing every day. And shockingly, when you actually do something more frequently, you get better at it. And again, shockingly, when you get better at it, you enjoy it more. that got in my head. was like, it's just a pain in the ass to practice. Right. And I tell like weather in Minneapolis never limited me from golfing. Like the number of snowstorms that I golfed in.
but actually being able to swing a golf club is what that was the thing. It's just a pain in the ass. It's just hard. It's hard to get to. It's expensive. Those were the things that I filed the way that got my brain turning. So as I'm starting my career in corporate America, I got my idea going on my business venture, right? Like make it easy to swing a golf club. This, the short summary is it basically, I had envisioned five iron in downtown Minneapolis, right?
Like right in the Skyway system, third story of the Skyway system, like guys like me, some income, but like golfing, make it easy, just get there. Anyhow, so I had, yeah, I poured over this business model as I'm going into my career and lots of things obviously didn't play out. But fast forward 20 years and ish, not quite. Yeah, well, at the time it would have been close, right? Cause I was coming out of business school. Yeah, I think I had just over 17 at Eagle Lab, but the-
Matt Considine (14:01.193)
20 years, that's what I was gonna ask.
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Testa (14:10.807)
the formulations and all of the brainstorming and that sort of stuff, I got to a point in my career in corporate America and I was looking for something else. I guess this is the best way to describe it. And I dusted off the business plan. And as I was doing that, stumbled, I had never heard of Five Iron. And not to, you were nice enough to put me in your category of, I don't know.
current state, um, as well as, don't know about the expertise of similar, I don't know that on any of those. So I'm certainly not on the level of five iron, but I was like, yeah, these guys basically, basically were, are doing what I did and, and, and they raised a lot of money. And so, yeah. Yeah. So I went back to the business. I said, listen, um, I didn't like the lots of things were the issues that I had. And that's what I wasn't interested in was just the model. And it's just, you can't, it's tough to scale.
Matt Considine (14:47.692)
Yeah, a lot of people agreed that it was a good model.
Jeff Testa (15:02.999)
Right? As anyone who's trying to is certainly going to acknowledge. And so it was over a weekend and I'll come back to my, Hey honey, I think this is what I think I'm doing. I literally, wasn't anything complicated. It's like fixed costs are the problem. How do you eliminate fixed costs? You go through the model that I had built as coming out of B-school 20 years ago. And I was like, no real estate, no employees, no equipment, I E you get to marketplace approach. Hey honey, I think I'm to put a simulator out back and see if anyone wants to share it.
was me on the Peloton as she's walking out the door. By the time she got back, I had immediately gotten off the Peloton and the order for the simulator had been placed with the delivery a couple weeks later. And there we are.
Matt Considine (15:44.408)
There you are. always, I always hear these stories and it's like, I think a lot of us get, we'd love the romanticism of the inspiration, but then there is like, I don't care how loony or visionary somebody is. Like we all have practicality beaten into us for you got to exist in society. Right. And so there's the inspiration, but then there's like the reasoning of, there's a reduction of this risk that.
Jeff Testa (15:53.901)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (16:04.056)
Yep.
Matt Considine (16:14.474)
I see whether it be the the financials or it be you know, just the the trend or the the opportunity and And those are two very different things like for my world It was an inspiration in Scotland and Ireland But then it was the practicality of meeting golfers not playing much golf, you know self-proclaimed golfers playing less enjoyable golf and and just kind of listing the reasons why for you it sounds I mean 20 years, you know, it's like there's this inspiration of
your pain point to make swings, practice, have it be more convenient. And then 20 years later, we're sitting in COVID, right? This is during COVID that you had the garage.
Jeff Testa (16:54.867)
Ish. Yeah, it was when I pitched her, was her first. She was leaving the door. She was halfway out the door. She was going back to her first, I think it was Pilates class, in studio Pilates class. It was her first time leaving the house to go back to, which probably, I don't know, timing is, like life is timing, right? So the fact that she was probably not thinking about my harebrained idea as she was going back like outside into the real world, like yeah, fortuitous there, I guess.
Matt Considine (17:18.35)
Well, yeah, you're good on timing too, because she's like, yeah, she gets to go see people and you're sitting there like, I haven't seen people in a while. Like, let me get some friends over here. That's, that's awesome. Um, all right. I, I'm going to, we're going to jump around. Both of us are, are, are going to be prone to jump around, but just this rise. I was kind of blown away last night when I saw that number of increase, like 126%. I like, for me, I'm such a golf sicko. feel like I've been doing simulators for much longer than that.
Jeff Testa (17:26.263)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Testa (17:32.203)
Have at it. Yep. Good.
Jeff Testa (17:47.661)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (17:47.662)
But man, you look at that numbers, up to 8.1 million participants. I feel like that number is even maybe lower than what I'm thinking it is. Because I don't know how home sims play into that, but what do you attribute this trend to? Like why, is it cultural, is it technology, did COVID have a lot to do with it? Why the surge?
Jeff Testa (18:12.899)
I don't, I don't know that I'm an expert again. I've got experience and I'm one of the guys that this is, I've lived this life for last three years. I don't know that gives me expertise or not, but the obvious thing is the biggest obvious giant boost to anything that you're going to find at NGF, I'm assuming is top golf, right? That started it, right? That just changed the dynamic and changed the definition, right? And so I, my assumption here is that's the first ingredient that changed how they were defining the market and required
that you include other users in the participation numbers. You could not just because people are there swinging golf clubs. The biggest challenge of guessing is how do you define that? And I think just last year they've actually changed the definitions of how they're categorizing things a little bit. So that's the first ingredient. From there, you get to just basic technology.
advancements, nothing that's rocket science, but you've got a lot of options out there and you got perform, you got options that are high, high quality, lower costs. mean, they are, there's, more, they're more prevalent. and so you got the ingredients on top of COVID with a lot of interest and people going there. I mean, it's, it is, yeah, it's, it's ripe to fit into simulators and off-course stuff.
Because I do think, whether it's Neighborhood National or something else, simulator is just going to make swinging a golf club easier, even if it's for yourself. And I say, two things golf generally aren't for the vast majority of anyone is easy or convenient and affordable. Right? And so, yeah, sims can be both.
Matt Considine (19:55.694)
You know, it's, it's, uh, it's funny. feel like I went house shopping two years ago for the first time in my life. was an apartment guy and, you know, I think she, my wife picked up on the, uh, uh, I'd be looking at a lot of ceiling heights. You know what I mean? And, and I think it is funny that like, there's been this, this surgeon at, at home, which yeah, I couldn't find any stats on like at home simulators. I'm sure they're out there, but
Jeff Testa (20:01.997)
Okay, good luck. Good for you.
Jeff Testa (20:11.875)
Yeah
Jeff Testa (20:23.043)
Yeah, the market's understated because of what you described. They haven't been able to figure out yet how to actually do the market. There's no, I'm sure they'll get there. They have to, or somebody will. Somebody will get there. I don't know if it'll be the traditionals that get there or not, but somebody will actually go and assess the off-course stuff.
Matt Considine (20:36.152)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (20:42.478)
Well, it's one element of what I love about Neighborhood National and your guys model is like, I looked at a lot of houses and you got all the criteria trying to make everybody happy or thinking about the future. It's hard, man. It's so hard to find a like neighborhood school district, blah, blah, But it's comical to me that like the housing, whatever standard dimensions of
a garage is roofs, basements, all that stuff is just like slightly less than what you need for just slightly less. There was so many spaces that we looked at where I was like, this is so close, but I'd have to remodel everything. And maybe that'll change with this, you ubiquity of simulators and technology. But the reason I bring it up is I know some neighbors that have that space and it's like, yeah, I don't. And so we settled at a place where I just do not, I would have to knock down a lot of shit to
Jeff Testa (21:13.987)
It's about it.
Jeff Testa (21:19.991)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah?
Matt Considine (21:39.234)
build myself a comfortable space. But I know my neighbors who do. And man, if we went in on something and they were willing to share it, you guys are building the structure. I just see that so clearly as like, what a great thing. And you and I talked about this in the past. Being with people, like the world just needs to get back to being together again. We don't spend enough time, you know, socializing and too much time on screens, even though it's screen golf, you get where I'm going.
Jeff Testa (22:08.227)
100 % Yes.
Matt Considine (22:09.41)
What's your thoughts on, was that, cause there's some altruism to your idea too. Was that from the get go? Did that ever conflict with your business model?
Jeff Testa (22:15.107)
No.
It didn't, so altruism, so no, when I started, pretty, I guess I had bigger ideas in mind. I saw a business opportunity for what we were doing, right? I saw the ability to create effectively a more, like just really just more textbook stuff, a more efficient channel.
Right, which then opened up access to do all sorts of other things. Right, so I saw that and that's what I guess I quit my job because I mean, just like sharing a simulator for 20 guys out of my garage isn't worth quitting my job for. But I'm always like, no, it wasn't. Right, it was like, hey, what if I had 10,000 of these things? And yeah, and then it's a $10 billion idea. Yeah, so that's what I saw. But how we got there.
Matt Considine (22:55.566)
That wasn't gonna get it done? I thought that would do it.
Matt Considine (23:02.222)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (23:11.043)
getting, yeah, the altruism piece, was, so it was like create efficient model, marketplaces are efficient. But what I've then learned and how things have worked and just the, that's what's changed so much. So I still do see kind of what like that big idea I see out there. But where I mentioned before, whereas it was like Airbnb meets a simulator, it's like, it's not it. Like I said, we're a private golf club.
We're a private golf club that makes it easy for anyone who wants to, literally anybody, to swing a golf club as often as they want. I don't care if you make $30,000 a year, if you make $3 million a year, chances are, as crazy as this sounds, you're likely going to be limited in either time or money.
one of the both. And a lot of times most people are having both. And so again, I don't know that our spectrum is 30,000 to 3 million, but, it was, it was, yeah, we are, we're a private golf club. We focus on that. And then I've created that, I, but we, cause this is a key thing. just talked to the people that were coming through and got feedback from them. And it's funny. You, you'd ask me kind of like the thing that I would be the contrarian perspective.
My contrarian perspective is I don't listen to any. Yeah, I don't. Well, go ahead. Yeah.
Matt Considine (24:22.786)
yeah, let me, you want me to ask it? That's one of my favorite questions. People have heard it, but if they listen to this show, they've heard it before. But it's always like, what's one common belief, and this can be in golf or business or life or whatever. One common belief, commonly held belief that you fundamentally disagree with. What is it?
Jeff Testa (24:41.357)
I've always fundamentally disagreed that my customers are gonna tell me what they want. I will tell my customers. This is like, it's whatever. It's like, it's a quote from a movie, I think. It's like, yeah, but, so I've always thought that and it's, don't know. I've been accused.
Matt Considine (24:51.15)
I know what you're saying though. get.
Matt Considine (24:59.49)
Well, you know, you remember the quote? I'm just thinking of it's Ford out of Detroit. He said,
Jeff Testa (25:04.771)
I thought it was jobs. Probably one of the two. They're both the same, right? They both would have said it.
Matt Considine (25:07.82)
Yeah, no, he said they both would said it, but he said if I would have asked the customer what they wanted, they would have asked for a faster horse. That's the quote.
Jeff Testa (25:15.851)
Yeah, there you go. That's yeah, there you go. Right. So I through my career, I yeah, I chuckled now. I'm sure people were very annoyed with me from time to time with the arrogance that I'm sure was perceived, never intended. I just I just looked at things anyway. So the irony, if you will, was what got us to what I describe now as the recipe. And I do say it's us because like I started it.
But everything that it's come to be since then is a function of the membership that we've got. Like the first people that were coming through my garage and I was asking them and I mean, would mean pricing feedback. I like the, the biggest and still to this day, it's a less now just given how I've changed the focus and the pitch and the conversation. But early on there was obvious, you can imagine a lot of risk concern.
people coming on my property and I don't know along those lines, one of the members said he's like, I wasn't concerned about this. said, yeah, we're all neighbors. mean, we're all like golf. And so it's like, yeah, it's like, that makes sense. It's like, these guys aren't strangers. They're people that already are part of two communities that I'm part of, golf and the neighborhood that I live in. You don't like every golfer that you've ever met, but.
Matt Considine (26:27.96)
So true.
Jeff Testa (26:31.363)
I'd say the percentages are, I mean, they're pretty high. mean, you're not like regularly do you come across, at least in my experience, somebody that you just are like, get me away from this person. Same with your neighbors. You don't like them all, right? But.
You're not going to live there. So anyhow, it was, it was feedback from them and everything since then that really got me focused much more on the communal aspects of what make this work. Right. The marketplace makes it efficient and it just unlocks the numbers that can then feed into the communal aspects, the communal aspects of then why you're doing it and how you do it. That's like the recipe, right? Price it, price it in a way that people think this is too good to be true. Deliver value, think is too good to be true. Create the culture that drives the community, taking care of everything.
Now you're getting into more of the altruistic thing that really is the recipe that actually gets me way more excited. Like don't want Airbnb for goal simulators is I'm sure. Well, there are those that do it have at it. I'm good in good luck. it's just not something that I'm interested in. get, I get excited about the altruistic piece, knowing that there's, there's a pile of value out there that can be created with it. And then I'm happy to split it up with the members.
Matt Considine (27:41.09)
I mean, that speaks to my soul, what you just said there, because those two common grounds, golf and neighborly, I think there is a lot of communities that, they kind of narrow in, in my opinion, way too much on what they have to have in common to be a community, right? And golf,
those that are committed to those that do dedicated stuff, there's some baseline stuff. There's much more we have in common than we have different. And if you focus on those things and you respect those things, your community can be yes, larger, but then I'll shrink it with geography because so many of the communities that have grown in golf or otherwise based on technology, based on all the social, all this stuff.
It's like, yeah, you can find somebody over in Australia who shares your niche passion for this thing and you can send messages and read. Yeah, I mean, too. I've met some great friends on Twitter. Some of my favorite people I've met on Twitter, a weird place to spend time, but I've met unbelievable people. However, what the human experience needs and you can look at any point in history is people socializing around you.
Jeff Testa (28:41.283)
I've talked to him. Yeah, I've had calls with him.
Matt Considine (29:03.03)
where you live in the real world. And the way that happens is with proximity. It's one of our big fundamentals is, know, everyone's like, yeah, Newcomb can work, but not at the local level. You can't do local chapters. And we're like, no, we absolutely can. Eventually we want to do a micro local chapters. it's because you got to spend time with people that work and live, because those are real relationships, right? Not to say you can't have pen pals, but.
Jeff Testa (29:27.489)
I couldn't, I could not possibly agree more. And even more the ironic twist for me is I wasn't, I didn't have an appreciation for that until I experienced it. Like I was Airbnb, I came in like transaction piece, right? Just like, and so seeing what you just described as far more the key ingredients of what making what we do, what, what we don't work well everywhere. We haven't worked well everywhere, but where we work well.
Matt Considine (29:42.158)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Testa (29:55.681)
We've worked well because of everything that you just described. And so that's where it's like, it wasn't me to begin with, but yeah, I like it now for sure.
Matt Considine (30:03.854)
And tying it to your contrarian take, it's like giving people what the deeper need is and not exactly what they're saying they want. They want Airbnb, but what they need is a club. I, another friend in the space, I was talking to other day and he was frustrated. He said, you know what golf needs is an operating system. And like, like everybody should be on the same. I go, dude, it exists. It's, it was created in 1744. It's called a golf club.
Jeff Testa (30:11.234)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (30:33.731)
There you go. Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Considine (30:34.924)
Like that's the operating system. we're not disruptors, you and I, we're just embracing the oldest operating system in golf. The honorable company of Edinburgh Golfers laid out a nice foundation for us of like, you know what, instead of all of us doing disparate things and all this other stuff, we should have like a set of bylaws and codes and this is who we want to play with and we're going to have a club chip. It's not rocket time.
Jeff Testa (30:57.229)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (31:02.723)
I don't know, my brain goes to, I hadn't thought about like the fundamental, just the foundationally, like the reasons that this game is maybe the greatest game ever. I always go to, cause it's relative. Every aspect of the game is relative and I'm just like, it's just relative. But I think maybe your comment maybe plants a different seed.
It's like at its like, it's just like at its root level. It just is like the answer for so much, right? It's and yeah, it's so yeah, maybe combine both of those things and it appeals to everyone and it answers everything. It's not a bad place to be.
Matt Considine (31:38.05)
Yeah, it's, it's true. you talked about, you know, the feedback and talking to, members of neighborhood national and what you get, are there a lot of non golfers or new golfers that you've seen in this? Like, some of the stats I looked at last night, talk about the, guess, non green grass golfers, but are you seeing people come to you guys and get involved that, you know, didn't touch a club before that?
Jeff Testa (31:56.461)
Yep.
Jeff Testa (32:03.533)
Yeah, well, so short answer is absolutely yes. It's been interesting to me, like by design, I don't know, as like coach, like marketing guy, I'd never be like, need to appeal to everyone. That's not, that's actually the wrong thing to do. And I don't know if this is, you can add to my contrarian bucket. I like the fact that we do appeal to everyone, like the way approach that we take. Yeah, the short answer to your question is we've got.
I I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but countless examples of people that literally come in, I just picked up the game. I want to get better. obviously there's a con, I mean, there's a practice component to it. Maybe one of the unique things that we do is the fact that we're actually able to facilitate practice and improvement in a way that, well,
few others can just because of costs and convenience. But the other thing that was more of an aha to me is golf's hard and it takes some confidence and right and or what's the right word? It's like you got to be okay with looking a little silly from time to time and that can be tough to do on a range when you've got
lots of people standing around and it's a whole lot easier to do when you're in a simulator by yourself. And so those are kind of some little nuggets. I was like, all right, like this, it's kind of obvious once you see it, didn't think of it until I saw it. then, so yeah, short answer is, it's, we've got lots of members that are just getting started. We've got lots of members who are, I don't know, 25 plus handicaps. And we've got lots of members who...
would give your club championship a run for the title that you opened with.
Matt Considine (33:44.716)
Yeah, it's a, it is definitely like on the accessibility side, the confidence thing I wasn't thinking about, but man, is that so true? I, I, I know there's a narrative, the golf, the golf industry, I read in these stats from national golf foundation. could definitely tell they're trying to, to kind of sell this idea that screen golf is going to increase the on-course participation. You know, people that make it to green golf.
Jeff Testa (34:11.607)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (34:14.39)
I personally, Jeff, don't see that. I've seen, and maybe I'm thinking more top golf than I am Sims, but similar though, I just don't see that conversion to green grass. And there's some part of me being this golf history nerd that feels it's not the right place to start and that somebody should get a putter in their hand, go out with a group of three courses, need to put them in a group, give them a putter hand.
Jeff Testa (34:21.219)
That's.
Matt Considine (34:43.276)
say drop a ball 20 yards off the green and get it in that hole, because that's the game of golf, and then learn backwards. That's how they do learn in Scotland. Kids, beginners, they start with that approach. They also don't have driving ranges either, but that's probably changing over there, because simulators are booming and surging over there as well. but what's your take on that? Is it complimentary in your eyes?
or are these two things at conflict and maybe just going in two directions eventually?
Jeff Testa (35:15.095)
Yeah, this is...
What's the right way for, well, I won't even try to couch it. I'll say I used to be a guy in a garage. Now I'm a guy with a handful of garages and 200 members. So far from having the answer in the grand scheme of NGF in the golf industry. But I like whether or not it's neighborhood national or somewhat.
Matt Considine (35:37.292)
I like these answers better though, by the way. 200 people is a lot of people.
Jeff Testa (35:39.203)
Okay, well it's like the answer is Yeah, the answer is due to we're the answer. There's the answer right? It's yeah, it's it's that Yeah, it's it's just it gets to um Yeah, I agree with you the way that the industry is today. All right, the way that off course is today Yes, the way that sim golf screen golf off course relative to grass course There's not going to be a lot of true compliment. I mean, they're not gonna compete number one. I don't think
right? But there's not going to be the way that it's set up, I don't think, in how I've assessed, I've assessed things. Yeah, the rising tide that lifts all boats, because there's no bridge between the two. They're just too, they're just too different, right? It's, right? It's, either different seasons and or...
it's maybe it's replacing instruction. mean, there's, there's that sort of stuff, but I, I don't, I haven't seen a one plus one equals three sort of thing. And I get back to, I, why I'm excited about what we're doing is I see that in what we do and how we do it. We're not replacing grass golf. Like we bring people like, like the numbers that I've run eight, a couple of things happen. well, a, you make it easier to swing a golf club and you're going to get better.
You get better, you're going to enjoy it more, you're going to do it more. And the fact that we solve for making it easy, like the fundamental at the end of the day, ground level, we make it easy to swing a golf club. And from there, yeah, the tide starts to rise. We're not replacing off course, right? mean, actually I'd say we are supporting, like Neighborhood National is massively successful. Off course is going to feel the rise of the tide because we're just making it easier for people to swing.
We're not going to take away from that. what I've is majority of our members swing the most, most of their swings, it's just over half. But I mean, they swing most of their swings at a neighborhood national club. They also golf more outside. Right. So it's, it's, that there's, yeah, I'd say the way the industry looks at it, how they define it, I don't see them, they're, they both involve a golf club.
Jeff Testa (37:52.171)
I don't see them necessarily doing the same thing. There isn't a bridge that's connected them successfully so far. Some have tried. I viewed accessibility as getting in the foundational way of that, which is what we sell for. And I like our opportunity to be the bridge as a result.
Matt Considine (38:06.606)
And I like the social aspect of the connection, being with others will pull, it's an invitation game, you know? And that back to your confidence piece, I think that opens the door for a more experienced golfer, a green grass golfer to say, hey, why don't you come out with me at this time? And that's what I don't see happening all the time, but I could see you guys being different.
Jeff Testa (38:12.438)
It's.
Jeff Testa (38:23.063)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (38:30.611)
I like that. I like it from two different directions. I certainly like it from your direction. Operationally, it's also core. The communal aspects are core to making the operation work for everyone as well. So there's the altruistic visionary, and this is what kind of gets me excited personally, like what I enjoy. But then there's also the art from a business standpoint. How the hell is this going to work? You need people to share their private property.
Because ultimately at end of day, the primary ingredient for us to work is we need low cost, no cost real estate. It does not work with anything that's anywhere close to traditional. So whether or not it's private or super low cost space, you've got to have affordability as a key component to the mix. So there has to be someone who's interested in some way, or form in what we're doing, how it operates. There has to be some buy-in to that.
The community is key to A, getting that person excited, but then also, getting comfortable with how the community operates. That the community is self-managed, because it is, right? And that's how we go about it. So it's like, you get to providing the value that you're describing through the communal aspects. The communal aspects are also what unlock for us the way that the operation and how it actually is able to succeed. And then you get these things to working together.
And it's certainly not easy, but it's like, wow, that's kind of cool.
Matt Considine (39:59.424)
It's so cool. It's like, we always talk about me and my co-founder Mark and you know, he's that for me. I'm not that bright. don't have that side of the brain. think Jeff, you have probably a little bit of that side of the brain. I like the visionary stuff. I like, they coming up with a million ideas day, but you gotta make it happen. You know, the idea doesn't change the world. Execution does is the quote of former employer mindset. And, and, you're right. It's like someone being willing to.
Jeff Testa (40:09.185)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (40:13.325)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (40:20.471)
There you go.
Matt Considine (40:27.599)
solve those issues. I think that's the fun of it really, I think, in entrepreneurship, right? It's like you're solving issues that nobody else has really tried to tackle.
Jeff Testa (40:35.861)
It's funny, had my prior employer, was same thing. Ideas are worth one point, plans are worth 10, executions worth 100. I mean, it's the thing. It's yeah, it's it. You can go do it. Yeah, and there's fun in doing it for me. That's the real fun and that's just like, yeah.
Matt Considine (40:58.008)
Tell me what, I'm going a little deeper here in the setup for you guys, but all right, that's just hypothetically say I convinced the Mrs. We're raising the roof of our basement six inches. I'm gonna have a space. how do I get it was set up in neighborhood national as a, what's the term you guys use? Is it head pro? Club pro.
Jeff Testa (41:12.009)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (41:21.335)
Club Pro, our host, a host to like, a host in layman's terms is a Club Pro for us.
Matt Considine (41:27.8)
So I set up to be a club pro with you guys. Walk me through it a little bit.
Jeff Testa (41:32.803)
yeah, well, generally speaking, for the most part, and again, not that I'm an expert, there's lots of experts that are out there, but most folks are going to be like, I don't know of the place to start in sim world. Right? You've, you've poked around online, which I'm sure you have, and your brain got scrambled in about two minutes. right? You got a $500 option or a $50,000 option, they all have Tiger Woods picture on them and they're all tour level performance. All right. So yeah.
Matt Considine (41:55.15)
And every YouTube channel I saw, this is the best way to do it. This is the only way to do it, but there's like a hundred of those videos, and I was like, well, they're all kind of different.
Jeff Testa (42:01.399)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, so I'd say first off the conversation that you and I would have is just making sure that we're aligned on like what we are, who we are, why we're doing it. it's very clear and I do actually I know I do a bad job of this and I'll improve and or I'm fine with doing a bad job of it because I stress this isn't a money making venture. It's not a money making venture for me. It can't be a money making venture for everyone. Collectively we get enough people that are aligned.
we're going to fundamentally as the club unlock a lot of value that we'll all be able to share it. So there's a capitalistic like math going on in the back of my head, but it's like this intersection of capitalism and altruism is kind of like this guiding principle. And I'm looking for people that are good with that and not everyone is. So a lot of the conversation we're gonna have is gonna start there. And then if you're like, all right, like, yeah, it's like.
This is a simulator for myself, pays for itself. I like sharing it with others. Maybe there's some passive income along the way. So that's the conversation that we have just to make sure that there's alignment on who we are, what we're doing, why we're doing. And then we get into helping educate folks on SIM options.
A $500 simulator is not the same as a $50,000 simulator. Right? And just all of that sort of stuff that goes into it. Just the brass tacks of what's your budget, what's your space, the two main questions you really have to like think about hard to get you into making sense of the craziness that's out there. we bring everyone along. I say we just provide the easy button because you've got a day job. You like the idea of what we're doing and we try to make it easy to do.
Matt Considine (43:46.178)
And I imagine a lot of the questions become around the safety piece. Is that one of the comment of like access? How does it, where do I make it available? That type of thing.
Jeff Testa (43:52.599)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think early on it was, yeah, they were my, the stranger danger concerns were definitely the biggest obstacles that I I think fundamentally those were a function of the fact that I pitched it as Airbnb, like I pitched it transactionally. And so when you pitch a transaction, you automatically think of all the shit that can come with the transaction. When you pitch it as community,
Matt Considine (44:18.573)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (44:20.387)
you now you start thinking about all the fun that comes with it. so, you know, so I deal a lot less with like more of the traditional stranger danger concerns right now because it's a different conversation. I'm assuming I'm bringing in more people that are just okay with it. But there's also reality to the way that we operate, as I mentioned, it addresses the stranger danger. Like I'm not worried about it.
Yeah, so outside of that, your basement's not going to work, sorry. Unless you've got a secure door between the downstairs and the upstairs that has a lock on it and exterior access to your basement, then we can talk. But yeah, you'll need secure access from insurance.
Matt Considine (45:00.386)
I am so far from affording a renovation yet I still have talked to multiple general contractors about this and they're like, like, what's your timeline on this? was like, honestly, dude, it might never happen. I just, I just appreciate you entertaining my questions. gosh, it's, it's just so cool, man. I get, I get excited about the idea just because like, you know, some people I'm sure too, are thinking what I thought when we first connected Jeff is like,
Jeff Testa (45:04.899)
All right.
Jeff Testa (45:11.907)
Ten years.
Matt Considine (45:28.782)
If I wanted to do it, I would do it. would just do it for my neighbors. I'd send out a text group and all that. Do you know how many guys in a new club I have had? These are members of new club. had, they would most are in the city. So they not have space at their home, but they get like a rental space and industrial space and they put together simulators and they say, yeah, I'm going to have a group of people. I'm going to do it.
they didn't have the operating system. fell apart every one of them because it's just like, I got the cost, but then I forgot to do this. They have day jobs. It's all this thing. And so I get pretty bullish on that pushback from people of your idea because it's like, yeah, but who's going to have the operating system to make all those things true. And it goes back to execution of the idea. Like, yeah, I got the idea to text all my neighbors and say, Hey, you know, I built something. I'd love for you guys to use this and your kids over.
But the reality is I need to do that in some type of system so it doesn't go off the rails.
Jeff Testa (46:26.531)
Yep. Yep. So I'd say two things. Yes. Like the vision was fine. I'll say guys like you, right? That would love to do this, but they have a day job and nothing that we're doing is complicated. Like there's literally mean, I don't know. could like strategy guy would be like, there's nothing unique. I could do this overnight. I'm like, yeah, you could, but I don't know that you would do it and make the bet.
on not making money that I have or be comfortable with that bet, right? So maybe I've got a cost advantage. so yeah, but it's like, it's yeah, it's like you're outsourcing admin, but I will also say this, and this is what I think. I don't know. Well, I guess I'm curious for your perspective.
Matt Considine (46:52.814)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Testa (47:04.96)
And I actually got a kick out of it because I got a kick out of the kick out of my comment to one of our new Club Pros. Because I made a comment, I was like, friends are the worst. And it was, friends are great to tell you yes. Right? Like, I'm going to do this and of course I'm going to sign up. And would you pitch in, would you pitch in, whatever, 50 bucks a month? Of course I'm going to do that. Right? But when it comes to-
Matt Considine (47:21.831)
yeah.
yeah, I-
Matt Considine (47:30.542)
100%, brother.
Jeff Testa (47:32.767)
Yes, but when it comes actually time to doing it, love my friends, but they could be the worst sometimes. And so there's absolutely that element of reality that I've experienced. Yeah, I think we've all experienced it, but it certainly applies to what you're talking about, right? It's like, you can do it yourself, we're gonna do it for you. And by the way, what you have in mind, it's not gonna play out that way, because your friends just are not that dependable to follow through.
Matt Considine (48:00.558)
So my perspective on this, you're preaching the choir. New Club, I think a lot of folks wrongfully believe my pain point was access to private clubs, private golf, but being able to play more of that. Yes, that's an element of what we do at New Club, but the main pain point was I looked around one day and all the golf golfers I had, my network, they got married, they had kids, they moved away.
Jeff Testa (48:04.91)
You
Jeff Testa (48:27.319)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (48:29.12)
And it just became one of those, just what you're describing that I'd the organizer. I'd invest time in my week to get tee times to make the invites. And the numbers weren't there. The, the, yeses became maybes became nos. And then you're just thinking, well, why am I just living a less enjoyable golf life? Like I, there is an option for this and, and it forced me to, you know, evaluate a private club as many do. 7.3 % of committed golfers are at traditional private clubs, but.
Jeff Testa (48:49.248)
Yes.
Jeff Testa (48:54.584)
See ya.
Matt Considine (48:59.362)
that still lacked that organization and the desire. And then you add in variety and the other things, but boy, that is such a true statement where it's like, friends are the worst. Friends just, they...
Jeff Testa (49:14.263)
Friends are the worst. said it, it just came out of my mouth and he texted me, he's hashtag friends are the worst. And I was like, yeah, we love them, but yeah.
Matt Considine (49:24.334)
I with our community and it's probably the same with yours. I use the word reliable so often where it's like, it's so reliable, not as one to one, everybody's busy. Everyone has different schedules, but an aggregate it's so reliable. You will, we kind of have a hosting program ourselves and it's like, I guarantee you of the people that live within 45 minutes of where you're at and where you're looking to play, you will have people ready to go.
Jeff Testa (49:30.498)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (49:52.078)
And that is such a good feeling as a golfer because there's nothing worse than getting excited for whatever, that Saturday round, that day out with a group, and then it crumbling. And that happens a lot. That is a very big pain point that no one wants to talk about because I think the thing that people don't wanna say out loud, Jeff, is they might need the friends or new friends. Nobody wants to make new friends after 25 or something, but we all do.
Jeff Testa (49:52.247)
Yes.
Jeff Testa (49:59.885)
Yep.
Jeff Testa (50:16.406)
Yeah, well, well, and well, there's also well, they're also your friends, right? I mean, and so it's like, and so it's like, listen, like, I like these guys, I hang out with them, right? But it's just like, it's, yeah, it's fire pit talk, right? And yeah, and every idea is a good idea around the fire pit. And like one guy goes and does it. And it's, and so it's, it's, it's everything you describe. I still love these guys. But
Matt Considine (50:43.118)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (50:43.883)
Yeah, but you can't count on them, but that doesn't make it a bad thing to idea or anyway, so it gets back to it. Yeah. Where are the outsourcing button? And by the way, yeah, even if you, if you wanted to do it you wanted to share it and it's just like, you're to need some other people outside your friends or you need to grow your friend circle a little bit in order to actually have it play out if you want it to. That's where we come in.
Matt Considine (51:05.634)
Yeah, I see that's here. I love that. Coming up on the hour, I wanted to squeeze in the future outlook on what you think. Just on the industry itself, like golf, simulators, I'd imagine you have to just, I know you keep saying you're not an expert, but I think anybody who's spent three years digging into this stuff, you know a lot more than most of us. What's coming in terms of the technology?
Jeff Testa (51:16.653)
Fire away. Yeah.
Jeff Testa (51:27.385)
Yes.
Matt Considine (51:33.994)
is are we gonna see pricing potentially drop when it becomes like, you know, the next update on a chip or something, or are we gonna see like virtual reality enter, are we gonna be wearing glasses when we're in these things? Like, what do you see coming down the pipe?
Jeff Testa (51:40.843)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (51:50.517)
I best describe it like it's good to be a golfer. So it's good to be the consumer. The industry is so hot. The technology is fundamentally not that differentiated. These are computers. so there's people that have carved out better positioning. even when you're pitching accuracy, at the end of the day, when you're at a similar price point, there's just not that much fundamental differentiation in
what the technology does. So from that standpoint, as hot as it is, it's going to be good to be a consumer. It'll be interesting to see how that, like you're talking hardware space and software space, meaning it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I think we will get more price value in terms of performance just because like hardware costs will come down. I expect it'll...
Yeah, the companies that are there are going to be interested in not making things more affordable. don't, mean, it's, be, it'll be how they, you know, what, what do they do to maintain and or increase pricing, but fundamentally they're going to be lower cost options out there that they already are. mean, like just with the simulator options right now, you can get the same performance at $5,000 as you can at $50,000 to a certain degree. Right.
So yeah, I like the options that we'll have. I'd say from a simulator standpoint, outside of the home stuff, like the actual commercial spaces, that'll be interesting, right? I've thought, you can imagine, I thought long and hard about, yeah, we could go faster if we leaned into more of the traditional approach.
I personally, it's just that, I just don't, I don't like that space for different reasons. of the big part of it is personal. So it's no like dispersion on people that are doing it. It'll be interesting. mean, that's, it's going to be very busy and very tough to make work from a numbers standpoint. But there's going to be lots of options there. I'd say I'd probably foresee if I were to pick the future, I'd see you'd net out into premium and affordable.
Jeff Testa (53:56.899)
And the middle is going to be where most people operate or try to operate. And the middle is going to be the toughest to make work. And you're going to see that's, that's if I were to predict the simulator options outside of neighborhood national five years, 10 years in the future, it'd be dogfight in the middle and lots of them crashing and burning and then figuring out a way to carve out the high end and low end options would be my bet.
Matt Considine (54:18.082)
Yeah. Yeah. And if like history of the golf industry, is any evidence more will probably gravitate to the high end, as, as golf kind of tends to do without, without subsidies.
Jeff Testa (54:30.829)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (54:34.679)
Well, here, well, you might know the answer, because I've always, this is like, I've assumed, so maybe a gut check. Well, okay, so what's the parable, the 80-20, what's the definition of it? I'm losing, right? Whatever, there's a term for it, right?
Matt Considine (54:42.852)
I might think I do, but I definitely don't.
Matt Considine (54:48.942)
Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Or applied to business. It's like 80 % of the revenues come from 20 % of the
Jeff Testa (54:55.843)
20 % of people. assume, my assumption is that in golf, it's 90 % of the revenue comes from 10 % of the people. That'd be my bet. so okay, and...
Matt Considine (55:04.395)
It, yeah.
Jeff Testa (55:08.067)
Yeah, at that point, it's, yeah, these people, they're not price sensitive, right? This is why like guys like me lament the prices of drivers. can't, I'm shocked there's not a thousand dollar driver or why I don't know why Titleist, I mean, when literally there's no ceiling on the price, right? Like, why don't you charge $5,000 for this? and I'm sure their PR people is the reason why, but it's, yeah, it's, you're right. It's, yeah, fast forward into the future and absent, I don't know.
Matt Considine (55:12.899)
Yes.
Matt Considine (55:21.272)
so true.
Jeff Testa (55:36.675)
Let's make it about me, can we? Yeah, absent a neighborhood national approach that kind of democratizes things a little bit, yeah, you will absolutely, you're going to see it's, yeah, everything's going to be appealing to the 10 % of people that can drive 90 % of the revenue.
Matt Considine (55:52.162)
Yeah, I think the, you know, I'm a little self-serving here with this statement, but the larger ideas, like, although many industries, you see the higher end of the market gravitate with with the most, there's more dollars, there's more competition, but the real differentiated idea and the bigger idea and the thing that becomes the larger thing in the end is, is typically the thing that figured out.
how to solve the issues to take a higher end experience and to do it more affordably, right? Amazon is in that, there's so many, you name the company, it's like that is been the truth, but that doesn't make it any easier. It's just, you got it, you got to solve, I think there's more issues to solve, but there is less competition because it's differentiated, it's hard.
Jeff Testa (56:27.671)
That's, yep, that's.
Jeff Testa (56:35.074)
It's.
Jeff Testa (56:46.199)
That's, that's, that's the, that's the, yeah, I was going to say, I was looking at the same thing. if you're trying to create continuity or just like this network, it's like, you're trying to, if you're trying to own the, the ecosystem of the golfer, right. And you're going to cast a net around the established ecosystem that exists today. Like that's really fucking hard to do. Like it cast me right. And this ecosystem is massive. Everyone's got their own vested interests and like, you're trying to then cast a net across them and aggregate everything around a golfer. That's.
not easy. And so what I'm saying, we're trying to do the same thing starting with the golfer and then building out from there. It's, yeah, I'm not saying that's easy either. It's just different, right? Well, it's just life. I might say that our idea might be bigger, right? And I can certainly pitch why I'm going to be more successful in doing it now, scaling it. So, but yeah, it's, yeah, I don't know. It gets me excited and it's certainly different.
Matt Considine (57:36.408)
Yeah. Well, I, Jeff, this is, this is awesome, man. Is there any, know I left a bunch on the table here. We could have taken it a hundred different directions, but, anything else you want to share that we didn't hit on.
Jeff Testa (57:45.144)
Yeah.
Jeff Testa (57:50.787)
I piggyback maybe on this just what I appreciate having me and I appreciate what you guys I just learning about you guys and the time that you've spent and I like talking with people of like minds hopefully maybe some questions about Neighborhood National have been raised always happy to hear them hopefully you get that like the mindset and approach that I've got is very much in alignment with yours and so the people that yeah like we're already of like minds it's I mean we're a private you guys are a private club
We're a private club. both operate a little bit differently. I think we both probably share the same sort of altruistic, if you will, like the mission stuff with, at the end of the day, trying to run businesses and make everything work and making it work for our members is what we're about. So if any of that resonates with anybody, I'm always happy to talk to folks, even just the slightest bit curious. So I will, that's maybe my parting close, if you will. It's just, yeah, ping me and I'm happy to follow up.
Matt Considine (58:46.252)
Yeah. And I encourage anybody to do it I've really enjoyed our chats, Jeff. There'll be many more. I'll put the links in our show notes for anybody that's listed. They could just click on it. Go chat with Jeff, learn more about Neighborhood National. know, founders like you, golf needs it. I think back to the point on, you know, where the market and the balance of capitalism and altruism. I read something recently about founder led companies.
Jeff Testa (58:55.233)
Love it.
Matt Considine (59:16.238)
And how they behave so much differently than board or CEO led companies. And one big reason for that is there's just this commitment to a mission and not a profit that takes, you know, endures further, gets people to a different place. and, and I can see you're doing that, man. I'm trying to do the same thing. It ain't easy, but I hope for the future of golf.
Jeff Testa (59:38.243)
It's not.
Matt Considine (59:42.267)
I, I, it's, it's needed, man. So I'm excited for, for you. And, and I just want to thank you for sharing a little bit, getting my wheels, turning on the, the sim space more today and, probably everybody listening.
Jeff Testa (59:52.545)
Love it. Love it. I appreciate it. Thanks for the time. Thank you very much.