Episode 35: Maximizing Customer Lifetime Value

One of the most important measures used by businesses to forecast revenue potential and make strategic marketing choices is customer lifetime value (CLV).

Show Notes

Whether you run a nimble MSP, or a chain of locations across multiple industries, knowing how to maximize your customer lifetime value will help your team boost income by investing in the clients who are most likely to generate profits over the long term.

Join Pete, Scott, Andrew and Richard as they discuss tried-and-true, profitable tactics to maximize customer lifetime value. But first they talk about what it is, why it's important, and how to calculate it. 

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Richard's Stuff:

✅ Rent Richards Brain: https://www.tubblog.co.uk/rrb/

✅ Richard's Blog: https://www.tubblog.co.uk/blog/

✅ Richard's Podcast: https://www.tubblog.co.uk/podcast/

Pete's Stuff: 

✅ Coaching & Mentoring: https://notabusinesscoach.com/

✅ Personal Youtube: https://youtube.com/petematheson

✅ Not a Business Coach Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/notabusinessc...

Scott's Stuff: 

✅ Cloud Nexus: https://cloudnexus.co.uk

✅ Youtube: https://YouTube.com/cloudnexus

✅ LinkedIn: https://LinkedIn.com/in/scottriley76

Andrew's Stuff: 

✅ Coaching & Mentoring: https://www.orangenomad.com/

✅ Orange Nomad Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/OrangeNomad

✅ LinkedIn: https://www.orangenomad.com/linkedin

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Andrew Moon: All right.

See, I forgot to switch the screens.

We forgot Pete.

Gotta get Pete.

Pete Matheson: I'm still tidying.

Andrew Moon: So let's go

Richard Tubb: it into a AER competition.

Where's Pete?

There's Pete.

Andrew Moon: There's real Pete this week.

Pete Matheson: Need to sit here.

Okay.

Andrew Moon: No, virtual
reality . Virtual reality

Pete Matheson: not this week.

Test, test.

Um, but I, I would highly recommend
trying it cuz it was definitely

a fun and interesting experience.

It was really good.

Andrew Moon: Cool.

I'm gonna move Richard
around here a little bit.

So,

Richard Tubb: Oh

Andrew Moon: so Richard's not high.

We got Richard this week, so
we are super pumped about that

Richard Tubb: yeah.

Andrew Moon: at the four Musk.

Get tears this week.

All

Pete Matheson: good to have you back.

Andrew Moon: Yes.

Richard Tubb: It's to be back.

Andrew Moon: it's been world traveling.

Uh, got over the US jet lag.

You didn't get sick, did you?

Cuz I saw a lot of LinkedIn
posts last week of people who got

sick from ConnectWise IT Nation.

Richard Tubb: fit.

Yeah.

Covid was running rampant, but I, I'd
only had Covid in September, so I think

I, the immunity was still there, but, uh,
yeah, that jet lag was a, was a killer.

And then of course we had a hurricane,
hurricane Nicole hit, so yeah, so

I thought I was gonna have a great
time in, you know, Miami Orlando

Aron Summit and ConnectWise IT
Nation, you know, take, spend some

time on the beach, wander around.

No, no, no.

It was like barricading yourself in
the hotel and, uh, . Yeah, there we go.

But it was a great trip.

Andrew Moon: Awesome.

What was your big takeaway
from From IT Nation this year?

Richard Tubb: Um,

Andrew Moon: Aros was pretty good, so
let's do that since that one was first.

What was your big takeaway from

Richard Tubb: Yeah, so my, I think the big
one, so like Word is getting out now, uh,

about Aron Summit was a phenomenal event.

So I think there was about 1700,
uh, people there at Arons Summit.

So it's growing year on year, but
the organizers did a fantastic

job with, uh, the speakers.

Uh, they put together,
um, the cyber studio.

So I was saying to you, Andrew, just
before we came on air, so there was

podcasters like myself, Karl Pook, Eric
Simpson, um, you know, uh, Chris, Tim

Luminaries as Arons kind of referred to us
as, and we have a studio in the middle of

the Arons Summit, uh, or at the reception.

Uh, and people could just come past tech
selfies while we were doing live shows.

It was, it was a lot of fun and,
uh, they videoed them as well.

Um, but yeah, my biggest
takeaway from Arons Summit.

Just the, the diverse audience there.

So I've spoken to a lot of people
and they were like, wow, I don't

see a lot of Arons in the MSP space.

And I was like, you don't see a lot of
Arons in the MSP space that you move in.

But they have got a huge partner base.

And, um, I was saying, you know, I would
guesstimate that 40% of the audience

there a US conference were either
from Latin America or from Europe.

So, you know, the big takeaway from
me Andrew, was Aros, I've got a really

strong product, really good focus
on, uh, the managed service market.

But the circles they're moving in up
until now are maybe different to the ones

that, um, the rest of us are used to.

Andrew Moon: That's pretty cool.

Yeah, I know.

We, we used it a lot for imaging
backups back in my day, back in my day.

uh, cool.

What was your big takeaway
from, from, uh, ConnectWise?

Richard Tubb: Uh, well first of all, don't
get to Florida when there's a hurricane.

That was a huge takeaway there.

Secondly, man, you Americans, you
don't like to walk anywhere, do you?

So like, had to Uber, like what would
be a five minute walk away, second

takeaway, but third one is like, you
know, a, a cant wise, the community there.

It is just mind blowingly vast.

So we talked about a Coronas summit
growing and growing and growing IT nation.

If you've never been to one of these
events before, you know Dan Scott and

the whole team, uh, uh, ConnectWise,
they're just doing incredible things

from the community perspective.

So they have like 5,000
plus registrations.

They've announced that, uh, uh, they're
gonna do an IT nation in Europe.

Uh, I believe it's next March,
uh, coming to, uh, London.

So don't quote me on the date,
but there's definitely one coming.

And of course they're gonna do their, uh,
security conference, uh, again next year.

And security was really the
unsurprisingly to everyone.

Security was the, the watch word, the
real theme of the conference there.

So many, many vendors, you know,
offering security solutions,

talking about cybersecurity.

Um, so yeah, some really good event.

Uh, ConnectWise do events very, very well.

Andrew Moon: yeah.

Yeah.

I miss it.

I think the last one that I went to
was like 2009, so it's been a while.

It's been a while for me.

I, we were a ConnectWise partner.

All right, so actually in that vein,
let's talk about cybersecurity and, uh,

we talked a about marketing and Pete
went on about how bad mar MSP marketing

sucks last week, so in virtual reality.

Uh, so we couldn't see, we get
to throw real, real tomatoes

at you this week, Pete.

So instead of your virtual self.

So we, we kind of touched on it last
week about maximizing client value

and, and, and really generating
more revenue from the people that

are already writing us checks.

Um, so I figured we would kick off
this week and just talk about kind

of where, where you see that being an
issue and why don't more MSPs do that?

Why don't they go back to the
till if you will, uh, and get more

revenue out of their current clients?

Pete Matheson: I think
it's a very valid question.

I, I certainly from, um, this
is like a story from way back

in my day, even though, yeah.

My, my dad's day actually, he,
um, he became this like superstar

salesman with the, I think he sold
photocopies originally and then he

went into selling lease lines in,
like, connectivity into schools.

And, um, the, the reason why he was,
he like smashed all the sales tickets

and like, you know, became like the
most successful salesperson at the, the

company was because he was the first
and only person that just decided to

focus on the existing client base.

Rather than just constantly trying
to go out there and get a new

business and new sales and new
marketing and all this kind of thing.

Actually, there's a, there's a
huge amount of value placed in

looking at the existing client base.

And, um, this actually comes off the
back of a, a chat we had in the, the

recent tech tribe beat up, um, of
just having this like products and

services matrix where if you list out
all of the products and services you

sell and list out with your clients,
and then just have a checkbox for

each service that client's taken up.

And then you can start a seeing, you
know, which, which clients have got,

you know, maybe gaps in their product
set that you could be offering.

Um, and b there might even be some
similarities if you then notice that say

all of the, I know all the law firms bar
one or two have x, Y, Z software features

or services or, you know, things that you.

But there's one or two
that are missing them out.

Well, it's pretty, pretty certain
that those, um, two that are

missing it are probably gonna
take up those remaining services

because everybody else has got them.

And it's a very, very, uh, you know,
from a selling point of view to be able

to say, well, everyone else has done it.

This is a massive gap for you.

Why are you not doing it?

Uh, it's quite a, an easier
sell, um, coming from someone

that's not a good sales person,
but just wants to fix problems.

So just having, having the matrix
thing really, really helps to be able

to identify problems, um, or identify
gaps in where you could be upselling

certain products and services.

And I also found that, uh, and actually
the original reason why we created the

product matrix in my FSP was because
we had, I think there's one day where

I heard someone phone in and they're
like, I'm, I'm calling in just to, you

know, a problem with our lease line.

Just, just calling in.

It's like, okay.

And I heard the person on the
phone go, thank you for that.

You should probably phone
your lease line provider.

I

Richard Tubb: No.

No.

Pete Matheson: they did, it's, it's us.

That's why they're fighting us.

And I was like, oh God, this,
this can't happen again.

So we created this product matrix.

This is the kind of thing that all
the engineers, all the staff could

look at and see instantly as soon as
a client called in and to get in a

bit into the weeds in terms of like
how to do it if you are a ConnectWise

partner, very timely being ConnectWise.

It just happens.

If you are in ConnectWise and
you have, um, bright gauge,

super simple way to completely
automate having a project matrix.

You just might have your, have your
contract set up in ConnectWise and

you can do this in any psa to be fair.

Have your contracts set up so that the
contracts are, um, you know, identifiable

to the products or services you sell.

And then with Bright Gate's reporting
tool, all it did was look to see

if contract existed for clients,
then put a tick in that box and

then you do the same thing if.

Lease line or internet contract
exists for client, tick that box.

And so as long as you keep your,
you know, PSA system and ConnectWise

up to date with the contracts,
then that matrix is completely,

automatically, always to date as well.

And you can have a live dashboard, you can
see exactly what's happening where, and

it just makes that whole job so, so easy.

Because I know the, you know, just
even talking about having a product

matrix or a service matrix or a client
matrix is just like a, oh, that's just

another thing, another thing I need to
outsource or delegate or stay on top of.

So if you can actually get this
so it's permanently updated

automatically, you know, through the,
the Bright Gate systems, it's the

kind of thing you do once and you
forget about and it's always there.

So yeah, just that, that's pretty
my, I think, takeaway and maybe

a bit of practical reality of how
you can actually set it up as well.

Andrew Moon: how often did you go
back and, and talk to clients and

kind of go through that matrix?

Pete Matheson: So in terms of
the matrix trick, we didn't.

I, I guess it would fall into
like the quarterly reviews

that we would used to have.

So, um, again, I dunno why I'm going
into technicalities, but within

ConnectWise, cause I'm just, I've
been writing emails to ConnectWise,

I ConnectWise mode at the moment.

Um, just have like a ticket that generates
me three every three months reminds

you to book a meeting with the clients.

You can have those quarterly catchups and
meetings with them and at that stage you

can, yes, you've got the, you've got the
chance to, you know, point out the gaps.

But also there are, you know,
new products, new services.

Microsoft might have just rolled out
their 35th application that's been

secretly hidden into the Microsoft
365 that they could benefit from.

So it's just using those opportunities
that, you know, they're FaceTime

with the clients to just really let
them know what they've already got

and what they're already paying.

And how they maximize, you
know, the efficiencies and

maximize the use out of it.

Um, but yeah, as always, um, and I think
I might have said this in a previous,

um, uh, podcast or, or video where with
the marketing we were doing, the whole

point of the marketing was that I wanted
to like propagate the same message.

Whether it's gonna be like, oh, hey,
you know, Microsoft Teams has come

out when that came out, or, you know,
the, the latest features have come

out, make sure you're using them.

That would be through the video,
through the podcast, through

blog posts, through emails.

We kind of push that
out through everything.

My, my goal was that I would get to those
quarterly meetings, or our account manager

would get to those quarterly meetings and
they wouldn't have to like, explain it to

them because they've already had those,
you know, had whichever medium they could.

They kind of, uh, absorbed it in.

They'd already had that information, but
still, we'd still get to those meetings.

We'd tell 'em all, all these
things and they'd be like, oh.

I wish you told me about that sooner
because I could have done X, Y, Z with it.

And it's so frustrating cause you
just sat there going, we did, we, we,

we sent you emails, we sent you like
printed newsletters that you opened,

hopefully, potentially not opened.

Um, we, we did videos, we did podcasts.

We, we've literally done all we can
do apart from of course, picking

up the phone and telling them, um,
you know, each time it happens.

But it's not possible to do
that for every single client.

You can't pick up the phone every
single time something new happens

and tell them all individually.

That's why you can't wait until
you have these, you know, scheduled

or quarterly catchups with them.

So you can, but again, my goal was to
educate them before we got to that stage.

So they could have already, maybe they
could have already investigated it and

see if it was good for their business.

Maybe they could have already bought it.

We could have already installed it and
we wouldn't have to have that discussion.

It saves time, but, uh,
but yes, still happens.

And, uh, I don't think there's.

Fix for that at all.

It's really just a, clients are busy.

You have to understand clients are busy.

So if they, as long as you get to the
stage and they're receptive to, you

know, your, your suggestions, your
recommendations, then ultimately that's

what we're here for, is to, uh, you
know, work on behalf of the clients

and, and do a good job for them really.

Andrew Moon: How bout you, Scott?

How often do you do that now?

Scott Riley: Oh, we are terrible at it.

We're really bad at it, genuinely.

Um, and I'm, I'm happy to admit that.

So the, the, the correct answer, of
course is that you should be doing

your quarterly business reviews, and
if they're not, if you, I think I saw

someone get sued once because they didn't
stick to the quarterly, uh, cadence.

And so they started to call them
technology business reviews.

And so at least they, they
weren't mandated as quarterly.

So maybe tbrs.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Scott Riley: But it's, it's
the right answer, right?

It's, it's actually as pizza's picking
up the phone and speaking to them, or

getting in a room with them and having
a conversation with your client, because

it's not just about your performance and
the tickets that you've closed and the,

you know, the, the instance that have been
raised and how many viruses, you know,

you've protected them from this month.

And, and all that stuff's useful and
helpful, of course, to show that you are

maintaining the service because we get it.

It's, if, if everything's working
well, then it kind of, almost,

the client feels like, well, what,
why do I need to pay you guys?

Nothing happens.

You're like, no, you, you're
not seeing all the stuff we're

doing in the background to
make sure that nothing happens.

To you.

Um, but it's, it's those opportunities
where they then tell you, Hey, you

know, we're growing, we're opening a new
office, or you know, we're shrinking,

we're actually closing down an office.

And those are all your opportunities
to say, Hey, you know, we can help in

this way, or we could do a mini project
here to help, you know, expand this

area or automate some things or, you
know, help you draw back some costs.

Um, that's where that true sort of
partnership of being, you know, the,

because we always say we, we wanna be
the, the, the IT team in the company.

We wanna be their IT partner, we wanna be
their virtual cio, but, For a lot of MSPs,

you know, once the client's, you know,
gone through this sales process and signed

up and they're on that recurring, um, you
know, it service plan, the only concept

that they have is with the service desk.

And occasionally when things don't
go well on the service desk, they'll

escalate maybe to their account
manager or a service delivery manager.

Um, and, and that is
true for a lot of MSPs.

I know we, we often get the
good bunch, uh, on this show

and in, in our communities.

But in the wider community, the
experience of clients is that they're

not really getting spoken to as often.

I, I, I can honestly say, you
know, we're guilty of that as well.

We'll, we'll let those, um,
quarterly business reviews slip.

We'll let that cadence slip because
we're so busy trying to do other things.

And, and as Pete says, I think,
you know, trying to market and

video and attract new clients,
um, and taking our eye off current

clients, and that's not fair either.

When they then phone up, you're like,
oh my goodness, I feel terrible.

We have had a conversation in ages.

Um, and then you have a really good
catch up and you see so many ways

that you could help them right now.

But also you have that gut wrenching
feeling when they tell you about a

pain that they've had for six or eight
weeks, and you could have helped.

Like you've, you've got
the answer right there.

And if you'd have just spoken to each
other, if you'd have just kept up

with those reviews, it's, it's a pain.

They didn't have to go through.

And I think we titled the show
like Customer Lifetime Value.

And when I thought about that, it
was, it was all about relationship.

It's all about how do we, how do we
genuinely stay in touch with our customers

really well at the time that they need us.

I think back to Pete's point, we can
put out newsletters and flyers and, and

videos, but we might just catch them at
the wrong time cuz they're super busy.

And that's why I think getting
that person to person communication

is, is super duper important.

Um, and, and every time I think
about it, I realize I feel

guilty about not doing it enough.

Um, and, and that's where, you know, I've
gotta look at that and, you know, I'm,

I'm on my mission to make myself useless.

If that's a role that needs to happen.

If that's a seat that needs filling,
then I need to find someone to sit

in that seat because it's super duper
important to us and our clients.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Richard, I

Pete Matheson: I think the,

Andrew Moon: some

Pete Matheson: um, Scott, you say
you're really bad at doing it.

The, the thing that, I'll be honest, we,
we, we did it as well as we could do, but

we, the challenge we had is some clients
just didn't want to, they were too busy

or maybe they didn't see the value of it.

That was quite a, a hard sell.

Um, but the way we started
getting into the cadence was

we just had that automation set
up within the ticketing system.

So yeah, every three months or
every however long you define

it would just create a ticket,
just like any other ticket.

And, you know, if the engineers pick
it up or the account managers pick

it up or whoever picks it up, but
at least it's a ticket in the system

that needs to be followed up, you
know, just like any other ticket.

Um, so maybe that might help, um, anyone
else who's struggling in similar ways

of just, if it's a problem, if it's
something needs to be done regularly,

just throw it into another ticket.

You know, we all know how to deal with
tickets and one extra ticket is gonna

create too amount work, hopefully.

Richard Tubb: Practical solution to that.

So we, you know, I'm old school.

We used to do three
different things for this.

Uh, so Scott, something that, uh, that
we scheduled to Pete's point, we had

a recurring ticket within ConnectWise.

We were a ConnectWise, psa, other PSAs
are available, uh, in his best BBC voice.

Um, but what it did, Scott, we actually
prompted me as the business owner to

not wait for the next qbr, but to pick
up the phone once a week to a different

client and just say, Hey, Richard here.

Just checking, just finding you
as one business owner to another.

How's it.

Just checking in there.

It's a little bit like, you know,
they say about, um, uh, annual

reviews for, for members of
staff, like a year's way too long.

And I actually think a
quarterly review is too long.

So you can, you can check
in with them, uh, regularly.

So that's the first thing we did.

The second thing we did was, um,
Actually, uh, to Pete's point, again,

we're old school, so we used to have
a piece of paper, a big piece of

card above the wall with the graph
on, with the matrix on, with all the

solutions, all the services that we had.

And then we ticked it off in green.

We had red crosses where people
didn't have the service, and

we created themes every month.

So the theme for the month might
have been, you know, uh, back

in the day for us it would be.

Offsite backup, and we would make a point
of going to all of our clients who hadn't

got offsite backup and speaking to them
about the benefits of offsite backup.

What that did for us was, um, we were,
we were focused on it and we were

having timely conversations with people.

Now you still come across some of
the same issues that Pete mentioned.

You know, uh, sometimes it goes in one
ear and out another clients concentrate on

what is important to clients at that time.

So that's the second thing that we did.

And the third thing that we did from
a practical perspective was, and

this is obviously pre covid, although
things are changing again now, we

did what we called engineering floor
walks, which many people have heard

me speak about this quite often.

It's, you know, one of my favorite
super tips for managed service provider.

We sent engineers out to client sites, uh,
all the time with no other reason, or we'd

give them a silly reason to go out there.

You know, the engineer knew go and
check the ups or go and label this

computer, or whatever it might be.

But the engineer would come to site
usually carrying a box of donuts or

some cakes or something because no
client in history has ever turned away.

An IT guy turning up at
the door with sweet things.

Uh, so they did that and then they would
walk around the office and tap people

on the shoulder and go, how you doing?

Is there anything I can
help with while I'm.

And so for, for those MSPs who are,
are watching this, when you get

really good at doing managed services,
there's very little reason for you

to go to your client site anymore
because we've got these wonderful,

you know, remote management tools.

But then what happens after a while is
you get so good at doing it that the

client forgets all of the pain that they
had before they started working with you.

And so they get, they give you that
horrible, most dreaded question MSPs get,

which is, what is it we're paying you for?

So engineering floor walks often
sort of alleviated that to a degree,

just to give visibility, Hey, we're
here, we can help you with things.

But the upsell opportunity, and I don't
really like the word upsell, we gotta,

we gotta find a better word than that.

Um, the, or the maximizing, you
know, the, the, the client's

value, whatever you wanna call it.

When the engineers said to, to
members of staff, Hey, how's it going?

Can I help with anything?

And there was often like our printers
not working or this, that, or the other,

but they'd often say, Hey, we're taking
on new members of staff next week.

And Oh right, we better get
computers ready for that.

So that alleviated some of those uh,
issues where you get a phone call on a

Monday morning, we've got a new member
of staff joining, we need a computer.

When are they joining?

They're here now.

, we've all had that, right?

That's really pain.

But interestingly, they would often,
members of staff would say, actually,

we're thinking about this project and we
might need a new server, or might need

a new printer, or whatever it might be.

So my engineers often came
back from client sites.

To go out and to be helpful
to uncover festering issues.

But they would come back with project,
work, with, uh, upselling solutions.

And it was absolutely great.

And I said earlier on, I'll close
by saying this, the, you know,

the, the top question that you
dread getting from clients is

what is it we're paying you for?

So go in and actually stand in touch
with clients and seeing them face

to face can alleviate some of that.

The second question for me, or the
worst question you can get from a

client is they phone you up and they
say, Hey, we've got an engineer here

fitting a new VoIP system and he wants
to know the administrator password.

And you say to, well, we
could have done that for you.

And they say to you, we
didn't realize you did that.

Andrew Moon: Yep.

Richard Tubb: it is so frustrating.

So again, you know, uh, going back
to what Pete said, uh, about staying

in touch with them, letting them know
the services you put out there for me,

that's super important cuz you don't want
either of those two questions to come up.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, for sure.

Or the printer guy, you know,
somebody comes in with a new copier.

It was always the copier guy.

They hated

Richard Tubb: guy, it was
gonna be probably, doesn't it?

So.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

But it's, it's funny because.

Like that's something
you don't think about.

But we had law firms, you
know, so not everybody had a

copier, but a law firm does.

And that was a, and that was one of the
things we, I didn't sell copiers, so Yeah.

So how do you eliminate that?

So Westway it, I'm trying to see,
so you guys can see the comments to,

did you show them the matrix or what
they had and didn't have visually?

Or did you just discuss it?

Pete Matheson: Uh, so for me
it's always just discuss it.

The, the matrix is for your
internal staff to see and know.

Um, because if you're showing 'em the
matrix, then, I mean, my matrix was,

its basically looks like an Excel
spreadsheet, but looks a bit bit

prettier, um, which would be a list of
clients down the left hand side column

and list of the services across the top.

So if you show them the list, you'll
be showing them all your clients

say that's a, that's a no-no.

Um, but yeah, just show them to your
internal staff so they can quickly

identify what's going on and your, you
know, sales team can see what's going on.

But in terms of the, um, the clients,
you basically just say, Hey, look,

you know, all of our other solicitors
or all our other law firms have got

these two products that you don't.

So therefore like, when do yours expire?

Let us know, you know,
we'll get 'em rolled out.

Um, or find out why they, why
they don't think they need it.

Um, there was an interesting, um, format.

The, the last company I worked at, before
I started my own business, they did

this, um, I guess strategic IT review or
whatever you might call it, where they

go out and assess, uh, a new business
and they would basically give them a,

you know, 20 or 30 page report back,
which would identify where they currently

are in terms of their IT needs and on
where the it needs to be to be able to

meet their, you know, 2, 3, 5 year plan.

And the way they worded it within there
was, um, and they did like a traffic light

system of, you know, how your servers,
how your networking, your wireless,

your security, they, they traffic
lighted it based on how you compare and

how you rate compared to other, other
similar size businesses in your niche.

So basically they were comparing
them to their competitors.

And so when you are identifying and
saying, well, hey, you are really, really

weak on these areas compared to, you
know, the guy down the road that's running

the same business, it really helps them
focus and actually pay attention to go,

oh, actually no, if they're doing that,
then we should be doing that as well.

Um, but yeah, I wouldn't
trade them the matrix.

Um, just, uh, just, just use that
information so you can actually

action it and do something with it.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Richard, you had a point that
you wanted to make too on that.

Richard Tubb: Yeah, what Pete was saying
about not showing, uh, customers the

Matrix, I absolutely agree with that
because it can get overwhelming, can't it?

Uh, for customers.

It's like you've got all these, you know,
red crosses rather than green ticks.

The flip side of that though, and this
is a tip and I'll give full credit

here, um, to, um, my good friend Andy
Parks, who runs Ibis Solutions, uh,

an MSP based outta commentary long
time, and Andy's very well known in

the community, the real Go giver.

But Andy started on his invoices,
you know, uh, first of all, he

listed everything that they did
for a client on the invoices.

And I'm not talking about time and tick.

And things like that.

I'm talking about, you know, they
did the backups and the defragging

and you know, all of those
type, all of that jazz on there.

Wonderful.

But what Andy also did, uh,
was listed some of the services

that the client didn't take.

Now, this is a really interesting one
from human psychology perspective, because

we all know we've seen those sales,
uh, forms, haven't we come through?

You buy stuff from Apple and they
say, oh, do you want warranty care?

Do you want the new case?

Do you want an Apple
watch to go with that?

Do you want like a engraving?

And you go, oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So there is something you can do there.

Like Andy was sending those invoices
out and it was almost like that

Chinese menu of saying, look, here
are the services you get and here

are the services you don't get.

And then next to it, Andy used to put
something to the equivalent of, uh, email,

you know, backup at um, ibit solutions.com
if you wanna add this service to

your, uh, uh, to your portfolio.

So I think that's really interesting cuz
it plays on human psychology, doesn't it?

For, uh, people wanting what
they haven't got at the moment.

Andrew Moon: Yeah,

Pete Matheson: See my
mind with my automation.

I'm, I'm just trying to think how.

Could you even automate that to be able
to kind of automatically show the products

they haven't got and show it as, yeah.

Show it as declined or get in touch or,
cause Cause I know with the telephony

billing system and many of them that
are around, you can like input ads,

you can have an ads that shows on
the billing, um, the invoice that

advertises the other services you do.

Um, which is something we did do,
just to make sure, you know, hey, we

do, we also do, yeah, the same thing.

Telecoms, printing, um, VoIP,
you know, internet connectivity,

those kind of things.

But we still had exact those same
scenarios of Yeah, I've, I've just,

I've just got our phone system ordered.

Can you come and help install
the whatever it is, or.

They need some extra room.

And that was always the frustrating one.

They need some extra room in
the rack to fit their switches.

It's like, yeah, but your
switches are also compatible.

And we could just vlan them off and it'd
be less like hassle, less maintenance.

There's also an extra internet
connection that's been

installed for our phone system.

Your internet connection's fine.

You could have just used the
one you had already and saved

money, but yeah, I digress.

. Um, so I'll be, yeah, very interested
to know if and how he does that.

It sounds like a manual thing, which
if it's manual, then it's a manual

thing and I guess maybe you set it up
once for each client and it's done.

Yeah.

I'd love to know if there's a way
of, um, voice making that somehow

That's just my, my wanting to
do as little work as possible.

Hat on

Andrew Moon: So I, I, I, I think.

Two.

That kind of goes back to Scott's
initial point, cuz I think you're not

alone, Scott, in the fact that a lot of
MSPs know they should do the technology

business reviews, and yet we have
the tools to automate and remind us.

Um, but I still think that
there's, there's something there.

You know, I wanted to brainstorm
this because I still think it's an

issue where if they go in and ask,
okay, do you want this service?

And somebody says no, then
they never offer it again.

Um, so I think that turned
kind of what Richard said too,

the sales thing, an upsell.

We MSPs get weirded out by the word sales.

Anything has to do with sales.

So I think that that may be into
the mentality, but where do you guys

see the, the disconnect and how do
we bridge that disconnect that MSPs

have between knowing that they should
do it and actually getting it done.

Scott Riley: I think,

Pete Matheson: couple of

Scott Riley: oh.

Go.

Pete Matheson: there.

Oh, sorry.

Um, it, it, it depends if they've
gone to buy it from someone else.

Um, cuz again, it's very similar
to what you've just said there.

I've seen a lot of people where
they, they lose the sale, so

to speak, to a third party.

The third party comes in and
they're like, ah, we've lost it.

It's gone.

And that's all they do about it.

But actually, you know, find
out is it a one year term?

Is it a three year term?

Put that into your system and then you can
check in with the client along the way.

You know, check in after a year or even
six months and just say, Hey, how is

the phone system working out for you?

You know, how are you getting on with it?

And then if you know when the
contract's gonna expire in May,

it might be three years time,
but as we know, clients generally

stick around for a very long time.

Put that into your system.

So just like any other server,
warranty renewal or anything, you get a

notification come up three months before
they're due to renew with that supplier.

And you get the opportunity once again
to come in and, uh, hopefully win the

business back again if you, and, and you
hopefully you'll have learned something

from the last time you quoted it and you
can kind of learn from those mistakes

if, if there it was a mistake at all.

Um, that, that's kinda the one side, I
guess the other side, the more challenging

side is yeah, what if they just say no
because they can't afford it or don't

want it, or don't think they need it.

So that's the, uh, that, that's
the challenging situation.

And that might be, is that
where Scott wanted to hop in

Scott Riley: I, no, I was, I was
gonna say, what I find with, um,

what I found with quite a few people
and, and in my own experience is that

they'll, um, they'll decide for the
client without asking the client.

I'm not gonna bother asking
because I know they're gonna say No

Richard Tubb: assumption.

Pete Matheson: Hmm.

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Scott Riley: And, and that is huge.

There's, there's so many opportunities
that I've seen with, you know, working

with, with other MSPs and, and with other,
you know, sales, uh, professionals in the

MSP space where they just go, oh no, I'm,
I'm not gonna ask them cuz they'll say no.

And so we, we never ask.

And I, I just think that's such a
huge issue where we've decided, well

they, they won't pay for backup.

They, they, they won't make room for all.

They're really cheap.

They don't like to spend on things.

So they're not gonna buy some new laptops.

You don't know.

You don't know.

And again, because we're not talking
to them regularly enough, we've just

assumed that they're not gonna spend,
and you know, again, it was that, it's

that court case that happened in Europe.

I forget all the details, but I'm
sure you've seen it where, um,

an MSP wasn't backing someone up.

They weren't backing up their client.

The client had a, a cyber breach.

Data was lost, money was lost.

Um, and in, in the end, the client takes
the MSP to court and says, you know, I

believe this was your responsibility.

And the MSP had had said time and time
again, you know, we offered you backup.

We asked if you wanted backup.

You know, you, you said no, or
you just ignored our emails.

Um, you never took us up on this offer.

And the court ruled in the
favor of the client to.

You have to pay damages to the client.

You were not explicit enough to the
client about the risks that they faced by

not taking this backup service and that
something like this could happen to them.

And I look at that and go, well,
I'm horrified by that situation.

Um, but also it makes me think like
we really need to be, you know, a

bit more bullish with our clients.

You know, when, when I see people
engaging with, um, you know, solicitors

or you're, you're buying a house and
you're doing some conveying or you're

working with a professional accountancy
firm, when they tell you, these are

the list of things that you need to
do and, and these are the requirements

that like, very rarely do you go, well,
could you do it for 10 quid cheaper?

Or, I'll do those bits myself.

Don't worry about them.

And you just do these bits.

But we seem to let ourselves
get pushed around in those

areas when it comes to msp.

And I know we're not regulated and
I, I kind of wish that we were, you

know, and held to a minimum standard.

Um, I, in fact, I think that'd be great.

I'd, I'd love to see us get there, but
we, we tend to sort of really, really

get pushed back quite easily by clients.

Um, and I've been having this conversation
with a couple of, of MSPs and, and

some really interesting chats with
good friends are saying, when you're

offering your MSP services now to
clients, are you going out with a good,

better, best, and is good, really the
bare minimum that you are prepared to

support on a long term basis, somebody.

Andrew Moon: offering it.

Scott Riley: Come on.

Yay.

Is is good.

Not you guys.

That what made the lights come on?

It's, it is good.

Really the bare minimum that you
are prepared to support and, and

maintain that customer on a one,
two, or three year contract.

Is that really your minimum standard?

Or actually, are you just giving
the cheapest possible option?

And, and in other cases they're going
out and saying, no, no, no, we have

one package for managed IT services.

It includes all the security that you
need, take it or don't work with us.

We, we don't mind because this is
how we work with clients and this

is the security stack that we have.

Um, and so, you know, that matrix
idea that we've been talking about

probably still comes into account in
some regards in the other products

like voice or um, lease lines.

But their managed IT stack is fixed.

These are the products, these
are the services that you get.

Here's the price per user.

And so, you know, I just think
that's a very bullish approach

that is working for some MSPs.

Good, better, best can definitely work,
but in a lot of MSPs, good isn't good.

It's, it's not good enough.

It's not secure enough, it doesn't have
the minimum amount of products in and,

and they framed it so that actually
the middle package is the one they

really want to sell, but they'll let
themselves get pushed down to, to good.

Um, and I think, yeah, I just
think we need to be more bullish

or maybe we do need to have a my
way or the highway type approach.

You know, it is working for
some MSPs, not everyone.

I think it has to be a
really good solution.

It has to be a really good price point.

But, uh, I dunno, I think, I
think there's room for debate.

Pete Matheson: you touched on something
very briefly there that I've seen in

multiple MSPs and all of them have had
pretty much the same experience, but

they've done it in a different way.

But in terms of like maximizing
client value, just increasing prices,

the, uh, the question you raised
of, uh, oh, they're not gonna pay

that, that comes up so much with,
with looking at price increases.

And certainly when you're looking
at like doing new packaging and new

pricing and putting together this
security stack, most people are kind of,

they're putting together the security
stack whilst they're, they've got this

little thought in the back of their.

My existing clients aren't gonna pay that.

They're not gonna sign up to that.

It's too expensive for them,
so it really holds them back.

But I keep saying to them, just forget
about what your existing clients

will, or maybe, or not sure might pay.

Focus on the new clients that you want
to be taking on board and, and focus, you

know, build the pricing for those clients.

And then the old clients or the
existing clients, you can figure

out a way of transitioning or maybe
you let some of 'em go again if they

don't come up to the new standards.

But, um, but one of my clients just
turned around, um, I think like a month

or two ago and he just increased the
price on, on his, all of his contracts.

He bumped up by like $20
per user per month or, or 20

bucks an hour or something.

And literally not one single complaint,
not a phone call, not an email

business just carried on as normal.

The invoice is carried on getting
paid, and I think he did actually

pick up the phone and speak to one.

Um, because there was, he was just
talking about a few other things

and they just said, look, pricing
and inflation has gone up by like

so much on all of our other costs.

Like it was only a matter of time
before yours was gonna go up.

And I understand you've got all your
costs going up, so Yeah, I, you know,

and we wanna support you as a, as
a client and the business as well.

So why not ask you this example?

Like, why not just bump it up
by another five or 10 bucks?

Cuz you know, we wanna make sure that you
are, you're not just scraping by, we need

you to stay in business and make a profit.

So, um, just having that attitude Exactly.

Holding you back of
they're not gonna pay that.

Like, don't do that.

Like from a, from a pricing
sensitivity point of view, yes.

Inflation is a thing.

Everyone's dealing with it,
everyone's paying more money anyway.

, if, if anything, and it's, it sounds
horrible, but like now's the, probably

the time to do the price increase
because everyone's so numb from having

it from all angles and, you know,
going down to their bread and butter,

they're buying in the supermarket.

Actually now is probably the
best time to come out, come

at them with a price increase.

Cause they're just gonna be, uh, I
mean they, we're all dealing with it.

We're all having to deal with
those costs and we just kind of

take on the chin and go, uh oh
well it's another price increase.

Yep.

You know, we'll suck it up cuz that's
just the world we live in nowadays.

Uh, but

Andrew Moon: just got one this morning.

My homeowner's policy,
I've been here a year.

It went up.

I'm like, nothing changed.

Same house, so I get it.

So Richard, I know you have a lot of
advice for MSPs around sales and that

whole stigma that we have about selling.

What would

Richard Tubb: I've been

Andrew Moon: be to an MSP there?

Richard Tubb: I've been reflecting,
thinking about it just while we've

been having the conversation.

So, you know, Pete was talking about,
and I'm a big fan of this automation, uh,

and Scott was saying he, he knows, he.

By the way you speak to any therapist,
Scott, and they will tell you the

word should, you need to eliminate
it from your, uh, uh, just beat

you up, doesn't do anything good.

Um, but what, you know, the conclusion I'm
coming to is that we need to reduce the

friction, uh, for MSPs between actually
what we, we should do, uh, the sales

and actually go in and, and doing it.

So there's ways we can automate that.

There's tools we can use.

You know, I, when I was running my
MSP back in the day, uh, I had to

go through, you know, sales training
and we, we, you know, we put charts

up and we had recurring tickets, all
of these different things and that,

and, and yet sales was still a bit.

Iki, it still felt a little bit
uncomfortable as though we are

trying to persuade somebody to buy
something that they don't really need.

So you've gotta shift your mentality.

First of all, uh, sales is, you
are doing your client a disservice.

If you don't, uh, let them know
about the products and solutions

that will make their life easier.

You know, it's their choice at the end
of the day, whether they wanna pay for

it, but you are doing them a disservice.

So that's the first thing I reflected on,
was the mental change we need to make.

And secondly, when it comes to
reducing the friction of doing it.

So I, I'll give a massive shout
out here to, to the guys at, uh,

momentum, uh, their revenue platform.

Um, because one of the things that I've
noticed momentum does really well for

MSPs is when they're putting together
a quote or a proposal, it actually

says, You know, why don't you include
this, or why don't you include that,

or why don't you include the other?

And it's prompting them to
actually say to their clients,

do you know we did this as well?

It's almost that upsell thing that we
were talking about, uh, earlier on.

And so I, you know, I actually think
that's gonna be huge for the industry

once packages like momentum get adopted
more, uh, easily because it takes the

MSP through a defined sales process,
best practices for want of a better word.

And secondly then forces them to,
to say, okay, should I be offering

the client this, that, or the other?

Of course I should.

So, and, and then it's a one click thing
to include those in the quote as well.

So reduce the friction
to getting stuff done.

Automation tools, uh, and
mindset of the three, uh, three

areas to reduce friction, I

Andrew Moon: automation.

Yeah.

And I think

Scott Riley: if I can tag onto Mentum for
a second as well, because, um, we just

started using it maybe eight weeks ago.

Um, and then you send out your quotes.

Um, and again, another area where I, I
can't use the word should, uh, another

area where we, improve, um, I can't use
the word should, but anyway, um, we,

we've send out quotes to, to clients
all the time and it's, it's hit or miss.

Some people wanna work
with us, some people don't.

Um, some people don't get back to us.

And I had, uh, uh, a quote out through
Momentum and then like, I just got

ping back from the client saying,
oh, I'm really sorry, uh, to hold

you up on this where, um, yeah, I'm
just gonna get signed off by the fd.

We really want to go ahead.

But yeah, thanks for your patience buddy.

But I was like, That's weird.

And then like another week later, I
still hadn't heard anything and he's

like, oh yeah, thanks for checking in.

Um, we are, we are definitely,
we do want to go ahead.

Thanks for your patience.

We're going ahead.

And I didn't realize momentum sending
reminders to them that their quote

is valid for 30 days and they've
had it for seven and they've only

got 21 left and then they've had it
for 14 and they've only got four.

And I didn't know.

So it's reminding

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Scott Riley: and then they're coming
back to me going, I'm really sorry.

I didn't mean to hold you up.

And I'm like, I, I'm so bad at follow up.

Like we send the quote go, well, they
either wanna work with us or they don't.

Right.

So I'm sure they'll come back to us.

We're that good?

We don't, we don't follow up.

Momentum follows up and it does it
automatically and transparently and so

we're just getting the feedback in going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're gonna be signing that off next week.

Really, really great tool.

The other thing as, as well as part of my,
uh, mission to be useless, I'm gonna write

a book, um, is that it now means that
I'm, I'm serious, I wanna write that book.

If anyone can help me.

I wanna write that book.

Um, I, I, it now means that I don't do
the quotes in our finance system anymore.

So any, um, like professional services,
quotes, already, sales quotes with a full

proposal, I don't have to do those, right?

My, I've built all the
templates and momentum.

My guys can go in and go, this
customer, this is the opportunity.

I wanna use this template and go.

And it just, it prepopulates everything.

Like we have fixed packages of
work that, that go in there.

It's already to go.

And I don't have to do that anymore.

It's really cool.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

And I, and I think, uh, too around
that issue of selling is I changed

the mindset when somebody's
already writing me a check.

I don't need to sell them anything.

And I changed my mindset when
I was going in and talking

about services, and I started.

And I think that that, that
for me is I was the same way.

I got hung up on the qbr, I got hung
up that this has to be a big formal

process where we all sit around a
table and I try to sell you something

and you either say yes or no.

Um, I started getting very informal.

I'm just like, yeah, kind of what, uh,
who was, it says they bring donuts.

Was that you, Pete, or
was that you, Richard?

Yeah.

You

Richard Tubb: Well, as a rule, I'm Andrew.

If there's any talk about cake, it's

Andrew Moon: Yeah, . So I was like, okay.

I, Hey, next Friday I'm gonna bring in
pizza for the staff while I'm there.

We'll just sit and chat about things.

So it, it's the same for the client.

It's, if you make it a big formal
process, that's gonna take an hour,

hour and a half, they might not,
may or may not have time for it.

So when I started doing that,
our, our client that I started

at $60 a seat way back in 2004.

When I changed that in, you know,
probably about 2007, 2008, my, my

formal process was very informal.

I would just bring lunch or
I would take them to lunch.

Uh, and I remember when I started
getting into hardware as a service,

uh, through Tar Tech, and I remember
this was gonna be a big bump for us

if, to get 'em to agree to basically
double their managed service contract.

So I took her to lunch, told
her what we had, you know,

what we were looking at doing.

They would never have to write a check
for hardware, never have to worry

about updating computers, doing, you
know, that was my quote unquote sell.

And she's like, oh, okay, well
just send me the paperwork.

I don't care what it costs,
just send me the paperwork.

And that doubled my MSP contract.

And by the time we were done with that,
10 years later, we still had that client.

They were $563 a seat all in.

Scott Riley: Uh, I'm.

Andrew Moon: We had everything.

We owned everything on the network.

We owned, you know, we hosted their
website, did unlimited hosting support.

Uh, it was just a ton of different
things, but we went above and

beyond what anybody else would do.

And when you have that relationship,
you're not really selling anything.

You're, as you guys have said,
you're giving them something

that they already need.

You're just figuring out a way to
provide that as a service for them.

So,

Richard Tubb: and the more service
solutions they take from you as well.

The more in old school terms, we would
call it you, the client is sticky

because think about this, when the
client's looking to cut costs, they

go through all the invoices, they're
gonna look at your invoice and it's

like all these different services.

Uh, we'll put that one to one
side and come back to it and we'll

look at other suppliers First.

The cost.

It's just the way it works.

People go for the easiest route.

Andrew Moon: yeah.

Scott Riley: I left for a second
when Andrew said it was 2004

and he was charging $60 a seat.

I'm like, it's 2022 and there's so many
UK MSPs we can't even get to $60 a seat.

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: I mean we
weren't even, didn't have the

security risks that we do now.

I mean, this is, this is insane.

I mean, how, where it changed
from 2004 to when I sold in 2014,

like we didn't have cell phones.

Like I didn't get tickets 24 7.

I mean, we weren't walking around with
iPhones in 2004, so, um, yeah, it's crazy.

Uh, Richard, you said
you have some resources.

Let's do see if we can
do, do a screen share.

We'll see if

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: this to

Richard Tubb: I know it's good chat
cuz we were talking, uh, about ment

and, uh, you know, what they do.

So I've done a number of different, um,
interviews with the guys at Momentum.

Let me see if I can share the screen.

So, uh, hopefully you can see that there.

This is one that I did with
Ben Specter from Ment, now Ben

to former msp, uh, himself.

Um, and, um, you know, so Ben ended
up working at Momentum because he

went through all of the pain as an
MSP of struggling with the sales.

So, you know, this episode,
how to accelerate your MSP

Sales for Business Growth.

I think this is one of our, you
know, highest rated episodes because

Ben delivers so much interest.

Interesting, you know, uh, bits and
pieces about how you can actually,

uh, reduce the friction in the,
uh, the sales, uh, cycle really.

So that's definitely one that I
would check out and, you know, go

and check out the Momentum website.

They've got a.

Uh, of different resources there.

But, you know, this is the bit
I wanted to draw attention to.

You know, Pete has been talking
about how can I automate this?

It's fundamental.

If you speak to any expert, they're
gonna tell you, you know, look to

automate things as much as possible.

Because when it's un automate, you
don't have to put your brain into

gear and you don't get the little
voice that says, oh, they're not

gonna, they're not gonna want this.

They're not gonna afford it.

You know, all those assumptions.

Take the human outta the sales process
to a degree and just, you know, put

the automation through and, um, I think
that that will make a big difference.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

There we go.

If you wanna show that
resource one more time,

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Let me go again.

Andrew Moon: pop

Pete Matheson: Or Scott
and perhaps Richard.

A quick question in terms of the, cuz
this is the thing I had with, um, the

problem with automation, certainly
like automated chasers is knowing, say

you've had a phone call to say like,
yep, okay, you've, you've got an update.

Yeah, you can speak to 'em tomorrow.

Okay.

But then they get the next follow
up email that says like, Hey, you

still haven't heard back from you.

So you still wasting hear back from you.

Does ment, how does
Momentum deal with that?

Or does it deal with that?

Scott Riley: So on the momentum side
of things, all's this doing is letting

'em know that their quotes expiring.

So it's not really chasing them
up to say, Hey, you know, it's not

customized in any way to say, Hey,
you should be signing this off.

Or Hey, you know, just wanna check in.

It's just letting 'em know that
the quote expires in 30 days

and then in 21 days and 14 days.

And so it's just a, it's a subtle
reminder that they've, they've had

this quote, you know, for the service.

It's gonna expire shortly
and it's system generated.

So it just feels like just a little nudge.

And so if you've had a conversation,
it's not painful for someone to get

that little tickle reminder, but if
they've just put it to the back of

their mind, it's a helpful little, Hey.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I, I got really busy and we did have
a quote for that, and I am interested.

So it's just a really
nice, subtle reminder.

But we've started to set up some
other automations in there now because

it's got the built in e-signatures.

So a client can, um, when
they get the quote, you can

give them the mandatory items.

You can give them optional items
that they can tick and add onto.

Um, I then have a couple of automations.

One is like, as they hit sign and,
and the deal goes to one inside

momentum, we take that project
and that goes into our PSA system.

I then also take that value and
I create a draft quote inside our

finance system, inside Zero, cuz every
week I'll go through and I'll check

in and zero and go, Hey, have we,
are we billing these projects yet?

Is this okay?

I'll check in with Halo.

But zero is really my kind of, you know,
go-to dashboard for really knowing.

Have we sent these
invoices out Halo's, nice.

Momentum's dice, but this is
real money here over in Zero.

So I always like to
have it ready in there.

Um, so I have a couple of those
things just set on client signature.

Once they digitally sign it, it shoots
off those two automations for me.

Um, some of that's momentum.

Some of that is actually Zapier just
working in combination with those things.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, we get
nerded out on the tools.

We go all day

Scott Riley: We really

Andrew Moon: tools.

Uh,

Richard Tubb: point is it reduces
the, the friction, the human element.

Scott, so I was thinking while you
were talking, how many times, and

this goes for relationships as well,
if anybody, uh, has done dating, uh,

online dating or anything, it's like,
when should I follow up with them?

Should I drop them a line?

And it's exactly the
same in sales, isn't it?

Because we send the quotes, they
acknowledge receipt of the quote,

and then it gets quiet, and we're
like, sh, shall I be a nuisance?

Shall I check in on them?

Just get rid of that.

If you've got the automated stuff.

Even if they take offense of it,
which nobody, you know, to Scott's

point, I don't think anybody has ever
taken offense an automated message

coming through of that nature.

Uh, but even if they do, you can say, oh
yeah, it was the automation that did it.

And, uh, but it just removes
that human ability to think

and procrastinate about it.

Just get the human outta the way.

Andrew Moon: Yeah, and I, and I
think, you know, if you're questioning

whether or not this strategy of
maximizing client value can work,

uh, if you guys know Robert Gibbons.

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: He messaged
me a couple weeks ago.

He wants me to do a course on it.

Um, just how, how to do that.

The nuts and bolts of, he's increased
their revenue 65% this year strictly

off of maximizing the client value.

The people that are already writing
him checks and think about that for a

second, he's not chasing new clients.

Yes, they do have sales and marketing
in place, but he's not constantly on

the hunt for new, new, new, new, new.

He's taking care of the customers he
already has and maximizing that revenue.

I mean, that's huge.

A 65% increase in revenue
without adding a single customer.

Pete Matheson: Hmm.

Andrew Moon: they've been tracking
that since the beginning of the year.

And I think, so when we think
about it, you know, can it be done?

I'm not sure whether I can do that.

It by all means, could work.

Uh, for sure.

I know we're coming up
onto the top of the hour.

Uh, John had one more question
that I thought we could get to.

Uh, if I move is up so people can see
it, he said, uh, question on the tribe.

What extras.

Extras that increase service value.

What are your thoughts of little
extras that can have a big impact

on the relationship or perceived
value of the service you offer?

I figure we'd just end with that.

Any tips there?

Richard Tubb: I think broad, broadly
speaking, I would say that you, and

this goes for, uh, Pete was talking
about price increases earlier.

So when you're increasing prices,
if you're very nervous about

that and you really shouldn't
be, cuz everybody expects it.

Um, but make sure to add more value
to what you're delivering and you can

say, we all get the messages, don't we?

Virgin Media and Vodafone, whoever,
uh, Verizon, they're get in touch with

us and say, Hey, we're putting the
prices up this year, but hey, you've.

This new service added or this new TV
station or whatever it might be, you

probably are not bothered about it.

Um, and so the point here is, um,
you wanna be looking for services

and solutions that are, are really
light lift from your perspective.

So they don't take a lot of labor.

They don't, perhaps not even
a lot of cost, but the client

sees some degree, a value in it.

So, uh, I'm, I'm trying to
think of examples of services.

Scott, what do you bundle
with your services that you

give to clients at the moment?

Scott Riley: I mean, so
generally, we'll, we'll bundle in.

I mean, simple things like
backup is really easy.

So everybody, every time we get, you
know, backup as a service for Office

365 type things, it's fully automated.

It's connected.

So as soon as they add an account
or a SharePoint site or a team

site, it's automatically added.

So we have that value to saying,
look, data will never be lost here.

Okay.

And it's already just part
and parcel of the package.

Um, one of the other really nice
things that we have is around the

end user cyber security training.

Um, so again, we just add that in
and it's just that nice stuff of,

again, it's fully managed from us.

We, we outsource the whole thing for
like two, they call it $3 a user, right?

Um, but they will do fishing
campaigns, they'll do tactical

campaigns around training.

They'll make sure that people are
up to date on their training plans.

It is localized.

So we have really nice UK content.

There's really nice North American content
as well, but they manage the whole thing.

So if someone did fall for one of the
fishing scams, they'll be getting in

touch with that person to make sure.

And it's, it's actually, it's,
it's manually intervened.

It's not all automated.

Here's the thing that happened.

Here's the training, you know,
video that you need to watch.

And then they'll check
and see did they do that?

And again, there's so much value in there.

We don't do anything.

Let's be really clear.

As the msp, we don't do anything.

It's $3.

So it's a very low cost and we can,
we can afford to make sure that

our service bundle is increased in
price and incorporate that in it.

It's really nice.

Andrew Moon: Yeah.

Richard Tubb: brilliant.

Who do you use?

Andrew Moon: one of the things that
we did, I added an executive concierge

service, a big fancy name for it, but
the things that we included in there,

I started listening to pain points that
people had, and one of the big ones for

CEOs, when these stupid things came out,
cell phones, they don't want to go wait

in line at the at and t store or the
cell phone store to get the new iPhone.

Richard Tubb: right.

Andrew Moon: I bundled that in our
executive concierge service include.

Us doing that for them and up to three
top level executives inside the company

and or their staff, like, especially like
the admin of a ceo, it's very important

that they continue to do their job.

So we did special things and I lumped it
in as the executive concierge service.

So we would do things like that, and
I would use that as a, for instance,

when you're trying to sell that
and okay, how many times a year

are you actually gonna do that?

Once maybe, um, because they
don't want to go to do that.

And the other thing that we did was
home service for those top three

executives, because it's the same
thing if CEO wants to work from home,

but is frustrated because he can't.

And again, this was way before
work from home became normal.

This was a decade ago, but we made
sure that his home office was set

up, they had everything they needed.

The kid's printer was hooked up so
they could print their homework.

I mean, it was just the little things.

That we did, and I had one CEO take us
up on this where she bought a new house.

She's like, Hey, I bought a new house.

We're moving.

You know, can you help me out with that?

So we did everything cut over over
internet from old location to new

location, made sure everything was set
up in her house the day of, you know,

that she took control of the house all
the way down to the kids', PlayStation,

the we, everything was set up down in the
basement to their, her TV in her room.

And when she came home that
night, everything was done.

Richard Tubb: gold cuz she's
not gonna move away from your

service anytime soon, is she?

Andrew Moon: Exactly.

That was the client.

That was $563 a seat.

When you do things like that where it's
not a, I mean, how many times do people

move, but when you can use that as a
case study, and these are the things that

are included in our executive concierge
service, doesn't cause me anything on a

monthly basis, and I'll gladly go to the
cell phone store for somebody once a year.

If they write me $563 a seat,
I'll do it all day long.

And, but it's, again,
CEOs talk about that stuff

Richard Tubb: Yeah.

Andrew Moon: and that's where it was gold
because she would go to these events and

she would tell people like, I couldn't
have bought enough press or marketing

from that one, helping her move that day.

Uh, we picked up five new clients
just because she was going around

telling people outta nowhere.

Um,

Richard Tubb: That's amazing.

Andrew Moon: John, to
answer your question, don't,

don't make it complicated.

Think about things that your
clients currently have a pain

point around that you might be
able to provide a service for.

Um, you know, just things, you,
you walk in and they, you see

that there's nobody mowing the
lawn out in front of their office.

Go help 'em find somebody to solve
that problem cleaning their office.

Go network with cleaning companies so
that when somebody has a problem with

cleaning their office, Hey, I got a guy.

you become that resource.

So it doesn't have to be, you know,
things that cost money necessarily,

but when you're looked to as
that resource, you know, that's

where you maximize that value.

They trust you that when they, when I come
in and make an offer, where do I sign?

Just, just send me the
paperwork, no questions asked.

So, all right.

Any, I know we're past time for you guys.

A couple of you guys got Jet.

So any parting thoughts on going
into 2023 that you would have for an

MSP around maximizing client value?

Um, how to do it, or just
any other parting thoughts?

Richard Tubb: one, one thing that
springs to mind and prac, this is

probably maybe a setup for the next show.

Um, The whole idea of managed services
being about you want to maximize your

profit but lower your cost of support.

And so, you know, going back to John's
question there about the services they

can give away, often you can look for
services to add to your portfolio that

are not gonna cost you, uh, too much
money, but are gonna lower the amount

of tickets that you have to deal with.

So content filtering and, you know, backup
and um, you know, things of that nature.

Email archiving, stuff like that.

Um, so, you know, for me, I think
it's one of the fundamental tenets

of managed services is you are
always looking to lower your cost

of support to eliminate the number
of tickets that are coming through.

So we could do a whole show
about that, but that would be my

thought for 2023 going into it.

How can you lower your customer support?

What services or solutions are out on
the market that your clients don't have

at the moment that if they did, you'd
get less tickets, you would make, you

would spend less time servicing those
clients, you would make more profit.

Andrew Moon: I like it, Pete, Scott.

Anybody wanna take that one?

He's

Scott Riley: I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
go quickly with, uh, put your prices up.

Don't, don't assume that your clients
aren't gonna buy those services that

you are selling them, and do not,
whatever you do, be late for your

youngest child's parent evening.

Andrew Moon: exactly on that, we're
gonna wrap this show, uh, before we get

in trouble for keeping Scott on and Pete
on, we gotta take care of the kiddos.

So thanks for hanging out with us guys.

Uh, thank you, uh, John, especially
for hanging out with us live,

and we will see you next week.