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Raj Singh is the Managing Partner at JLL Spark, JLL's corporate venture fund focused on PropTech investment and innovation. The fund backs early-stage companies building technology for the commercial real estate industry. Before JLL Spark, Raj held roles in corporate strategy and venture at JetBlue Technology Ventures and other firms. He is based in San Francisco, CA. Recorded live from the floor at CREtech NY.
(01:57) From JetBlue VC to JLL Spark
(05:25) Cities as humanity’s ultimate innovation engine
(06:31) What aviation figured out that real estate still hasn’t
(08:26) JLL Spark’s dual mandate
(10:50) JLL in tech: Build vs. buy vs. invest
(13:27) February 2026 AI CRE scare trade
(16:46) What it takes for Proptech founders to win
(20:03) Realpage and EliseAI saga
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Raj Singh JLL auphonic
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[00:00:00] [00:00:01] Hi, I'm Edward [00:00:02] Cohen, and this is [00:00:03] Tangent, a [00:00:04] Commercial Observer [00:00:05] podcast, [00:00:06] [00:00:07] [00:00:08] [00:00:09] coming to you [00:00:10] live from CRE [00:00:11] Tech New York at [00:00:12] the Javits Center, [00:00:13] day one [00:00:14] of New York City Real [00:00:15] Estate Week. [00:00:16] [00:00:17] [00:00:18] Global real estate is [00:00:19] worth just under [00:00:20] $400 [00:00:21] trillion [00:00:22] according to [00:00:23] Savills [00:00:24] last year.
That's [00:00:25] more than global [00:00:26] equities, global debt, [00:00:27] all the gold [00:00:28] ever mined [00:00:29] combined. It [00:00:30] is the largest store of [00:00:31] wealth on Earth, [00:00:32] and it is one of the [00:00:33] last industries [00:00:34] on the verge of being [00:00:35] completely reshaped [00:00:36] by AI. [00:00:37] Our guest [00:00:38] today is Raj [00:00:39] Singh, managing [00:00:40] partner at [00:00:41] JLL Spark [00:00:42] Global Ventures, [00:00:43] a corporate venture [00:00:44] arm of JLL.[00:00:45]
Raj, [00:00:46] how is New York City Real [00:00:47] Estate Week treating [00:00:48] you? wonderful, [00:00:49] Edward. Thank you for having [00:00:50] me, and, uh, it's always [00:00:51] fun to be here in the Big [00:00:52] Apple. [00:00:53] Raj, you spent [00:00:54] five years at [00:00:55] JetBlue [00:00:56] Technology Ventures [00:00:57] before [00:00:58] joining JLL Spark [00:00:59] in 2021. [00:01:00] What made you [00:01:01] make the jump [00:01:02] from aviation [00:01:03] to real estate, and [00:01:04] what are the things that [00:01:05] surprised you when you [00:01:06] got here?
Uh, [00:01:07] that is a great [00:01:08] question. The [00:01:09] short answer [00:01:10] is COVID. [00:01:11] So [00:01:12] during COVID, [00:01:13] JetBlue, which is a [00:01:14] great company, [00:01:15] had very hard [00:01:16] times, like all [00:01:17] the other airlines, [00:01:18] so we couldn't really [00:01:19] afford to make [00:01:20] the investments in [00:01:21] startups that we'd like to. [00:01:22] But the [00:01:23] longer answer is [00:01:24] that even though [00:01:25] transportation [00:01:26] is critical [00:01:27] for a [00:01:28] country as big as the [00:01:29] United States, [00:01:30] aviation in particular, [00:01:31] they [00:01:32] don't make much [00:01:33] money.
And so [00:01:34] I was [00:01:35] wondering, all this [00:01:36] value is being created [00:01:37] by the [00:01:38] transportation [00:01:39] industry. Where's the [00:01:40] value being [00:01:41] [00:01:42] captured and [00:01:43] harvested? And one of the [00:01:44] places I thought that [00:01:45] that might be the case [00:01:46] is in real [00:01:47] estate. So [00:01:48] I started thinking [00:01:49] about, okay, [00:01:50] a good example [00:01:51] since we're in New York [00:01:52] is the Second [00:01:53] Avenue subway [00:01:54] extension.
The [00:01:55] apartments are [00:01:56] now worth much [00:01:57] more on that [00:01:58] line than they were before the [00:01:59] line was there. [00:02:00] Value has gone to the [00:02:01] real estate. [00:02:02] Same if you build [00:02:03] a [00:02:04] mall or a [00:02:05] office block [00:02:06] near somewhere that's [00:02:07] booming, you're gonna capture [00:02:08] the value of the fact [00:02:09] that things are [00:02:10] changing. And that got me [00:02:11] interested in [00:02:12] real estate.
And [00:02:13] then you asked [00:02:14] what's surprised [00:02:15] me. [00:02:16] So I thought that [00:02:17] transportation was [00:02:18] the [00:02:19] toughest industry to [00:02:20] put technology [00:02:21] into. [00:02:22] Boy, was I [00:02:23] wrong about that. Boy, [00:02:24] oh, no. Oh, [00:02:25] no. Real [00:02:26] estate, much harder [00:02:27] to get people to [00:02:28] actually [00:02:29] adopt the [00:02:30] technology, in part [00:02:31] because it's not [00:02:32] familiar for them, [00:02:33] uh, and also because [00:02:34] it's been a [00:02:35] hugely successful [00:02:36] industry.
As [00:02:37] you said, 400 [00:02:38] trillion. I've heard numbers [00:02:39] between [00:02:40] 250 and [00:02:41] 500 trillion. [00:02:42] Anyway, a very [00:02:43] big number. Several [00:02:44] trillion. Exactly. [00:02:45] And so they're [00:02:46] like, "Hey, I'm doing [00:02:47] great. Why would I need to [00:02:48] add this [00:02:49] technology?" But slowly [00:02:50] we see a number of [00:02:51] different forces [00:02:52] that are pushing our [00:02:53] industry to adopt [00:02:54] technology.
[00:02:55] One of them is [00:02:56] labor, [00:02:57] so it's much harder to [00:02:58] find labor to do [00:02:59] things that you want to do at [00:03:00] the price that makes [00:03:01] sense for you. I [00:03:02] think another is- [00:03:03] Just the fact that [00:03:04] the industry is [00:03:05] [00:03:06] institutionalizing. It's gone f- [00:03:07] going from [00:03:08] people who are [00:03:09] families that own a bit of real [00:03:10] estate to [00:03:11] huge [00:03:12] institutions that own [00:03:13] tens of [00:03:14] hundreds, maybe even [00:03:15] thousands of [00:03:16] buildings.
You can't do [00:03:17] this without the [00:03:18] technology to be able to manage [00:03:19] that. So I think [00:03:20] the big [00:03:21] trends are pushing us [00:03:22] towards more and more [00:03:23] tech, and we're gonna get [00:03:24] there [00:03:25] Such a unique lens, [00:03:26] I mean, having [00:03:27] had experience in, [00:03:28] in such [00:03:29] critical [00:03:30] infrastructure and, [00:03:31] and critical to our [00:03:32] society, like [00:03:33] transportation and real [00:03:34] estate.
Which [00:03:35] made me think, as you were [00:03:36] saying that, I'm [00:03:37] pretty sure it was [00:03:38] thanks to the [00:03:39] automobile that we [00:03:40] came up with [00:03:41] malls to have [00:03:42] somewhere for [00:03:43] people can- Yeah ... can [00:03:44] drive. Oh, you have [00:03:45] a car now. Okay, that's [00:03:46] great. Where are we [00:03:47] going? Let's [00:03:48] just build some [00:03:49] malls because that way people [00:03:50] can drive [00:03:51] somewhere, [00:03:52] and also create [00:03:53] commerce and bring [00:03:54] jobs.
But, like, these [00:03:55] two industries are [00:03:56] reshaping each other [00:03:57] throughout history. [00:03:58] That's a great [00:03:59] point. I think you're [00:04:00] absolutely right. There's some [00:04:01] really good [00:04:02] stories about [00:04:03] [00:04:04] skyscrapers. Skyscrapers [00:04:05] couldn't happen without [00:04:06] elevators [00:04:07] to make those [00:04:08] buildings work properly. [00:04:09] Right. But then the [00:04:10] skyscrapers started [00:04:11] drawing in [00:04:12] people from the [00:04:13] suburbs, so then you needed [00:04:14] parking in [00:04:15] order to be able to [00:04:16] change and accommodate [00:04:17] those people.
[00:04:18] And you're right, so [00:04:19] these things interplay [00:04:20] with each other. [00:04:21] I think the broader [00:04:22] lens is [00:04:23] where are [00:04:24] we as [00:04:25] humanity going? And [00:04:26] one of the answers [00:04:27] to that is [00:04:28] urbanization. [00:04:29] So more and [00:04:30] more people live in cities. [00:04:31] I think we now [00:04:32] passed the point where [00:04:33] more than [00:04:34] 50% of the world's [00:04:35] population lives in cities, [00:04:36] and some [00:04:37] people may say that's a bad [00:04:38] thing, but for [00:04:39] me, the [00:04:40] city is the [00:04:41] ultimate [00:04:42] innovation [00:04:43] engine, [00:04:44] the thing that [00:04:45] humanity has [00:04:46] created.
Because when you [00:04:47] have the city, you have [00:04:48] all these different [00:04:49] people rubbing together [00:04:50] with new [00:04:51] ideas and different [00:04:52] ideas and one industry [00:04:53] crossing another industry. [00:04:54] This is where we [00:04:55] move humanity [00:04:56] forward. [00:04:57] Much as I love the [00:04:58] countryside, just living in [00:04:59] a small little house in the [00:05:00] countryside, [00:05:01] not so much innovation [00:05:02] is happening there, but the [00:05:03] cities, yes.[00:05:04]
So it's [00:05:05] incumbent on [00:05:06] us in the real estate [00:05:07] industry to [00:05:08] find the technology [00:05:09] to be able to [00:05:10] deliver the [00:05:11] cities that we need to live [00:05:12] in, but also to [00:05:13] innovate and [00:05:14] improve. I [00:05:15] absolutely love that. [00:05:16] Without a doubt, cities [00:05:17] have to be at the top [00:05:18] of human [00:05:19] inventions- Yeah ... right up [00:05:20] there with, uh, [00:05:21] language, [00:05:22] air conditioning, if [00:05:23] you ask me-
[00:05:24] and, uh, Lee- [00:05:25] Lee Kuan Yew in [00:05:26] Singapore as well. [00:05:27] I know we're not here to talk [00:05:28] about aviation, but I, [00:05:29] I have to ask you [00:05:30] just one more question 'cause [00:05:31] I- Sure ... such a [00:05:32] big fan of this [00:05:33] industry. I admire it so [00:05:34] much. I mean, [00:05:35] and, and they figured out some [00:05:36] stuff that, that real [00:05:37] estate still needs to [00:05:38] figure out, or we're [00:05:39] working on it.
I mean, [00:05:40] aviation not [00:05:41] only has reached a, [00:05:42] a near [00:05:43] zero [00:05:44] fatalities, you know, by [00:05:45] making every in- [00:05:46] incident that [00:05:47] happens shared, [00:05:48] an, a, an [00:05:49] industry lesson that people- Mm-hmm ... [00:05:50] can, can learn from [00:05:51] from a safety [00:05:52] standpoint. It's like [00:05:53] you can go to any [00:05:54] country in the world and, like, [00:05:55] y- you [00:05:56] know that the, [00:05:57] the aviation [00:05:58] industry [00:05:59] will be a level [00:06:00] up of whatever other [00:06:01] industry on average [00:06:02] they have there.
[00:06:03] And they've also [00:06:04] figured out [00:06:05] loyalty, like airline [00:06:06] loyalty points is [00:06:07] something that is more [00:06:08] valuable than the, you know, [00:06:09] ish. Eh, [00:06:10] you're shaking your head. I [00:06:11] think- I mean, to [00:06:12] your first point [00:06:13] on safety, yes, the [00:06:14] aviation industry [00:06:15] has done an incredibly [00:06:16] good job [00:06:17] at, uh, [00:06:18] reducing the number of deaths, [00:06:19] and a lot of it [00:06:20] is to do with [00:06:21] checklists and [00:06:22] training, and that's [00:06:23] definitely something that we could [00:06:24] learn from in, in the [00:06:25] real estate industry as [00:06:26] well.
On your other [00:06:27] point about loyalty, I [00:06:28] think the [00:06:29] [00:06:30] airlines have [00:06:31] created Frankenstein's [00:06:32] monster, [00:06:33] and for a while it kinda [00:06:34] did what they [00:06:35] wanted, but now it's a little [00:06:36] bit changing. [00:06:37] Uh, one of the things I used to [00:06:38] say when I was in the [00:06:39] industry is that the [00:06:40] number one, uh, [00:06:41] most profitable [00:06:42] thing that an airline [00:06:43] sells you [00:06:44] is?
[00:06:45] A hotel room [00:06:46] booking. [00:06:47] So [00:06:48] it's a very tough [00:06:49] industry. When I was [00:06:50] there, [00:06:51] the average amount [00:06:52] of profit you would [00:06:53] make from a [00:06:54] airplane, [00:06:55] full [00:06:56] airplane going from [00:06:57] New York to San [00:06:58] Francisco was about [00:06:59] $8 per [00:07:00] passenger. Wow. [00:07:01] Not [00:07:02] exactly- [00:07:03] Crazy. Yeah, not [00:07:04] exactly what you're looking [00:07:05] for. So the [00:07:06] economics keep on [00:07:07] changing.
It's [00:07:08] obviously a very [00:07:09] difficult industry [00:07:10] to remediate when it [00:07:11] comes to [00:07:12] sustainability, [00:07:13] very high carbon [00:07:14] emissions. [00:07:15] And so I think they've done [00:07:16] a lot of things very [00:07:17] well, but they [00:07:18] don't still [00:07:19] really make as much money as [00:07:20] they ought to. [00:07:21] Fascinating. [00:07:22] So [00:07:23] JLL Spark, I mean, [00:07:24] you've invested in [00:07:25] some of the most [00:07:26] successful [00:07:27] companies in the space, [00:07:28] including [00:07:29] the likes of [00:07:30] Elise AI, [00:07:31] DealPath.
I- [00:07:32] in terms of [00:07:33] the [00:07:34] approach that you're taking now [00:07:35] and [00:07:36] what companies are [00:07:37] deemed [00:07:38] venture [00:07:39] backable, and you're not [00:07:40] just a venture capital, you're [00:07:41] a venture capital [00:07:42] within [00:07:43] JLL- Right ... [00:07:44] one of the largest [00:07:45] leaders in [00:07:46] commercial real estate. So [00:07:47] how do you [00:07:48] prioritize in terms [00:07:49] of what [00:07:50] areas to focus [00:07:51] on to invest in, [00:07:52] in terms of your [00:07:53] mandate?
Does this have [00:07:54] to stand on [00:07:55] its own as a [00:07:56] company and investment, [00:07:57] or is it a [00:07:58] requirement that it [00:07:59] plays [00:08:00] into the value [00:08:01] propositions of [00:08:02] JLL's [00:08:03] various services? [00:08:04] How do you think about [00:08:05] that? [00:08:06] Yeah. I think it's [00:08:07] a complicated [00:08:08] discussion. [00:08:09] We have it every day [00:08:10] internally, [00:08:11] but honestly, the [00:08:12] answer is both. [00:08:13] It has to be able to stand [00:08:14] alone as a [00:08:15] company, but it [00:08:16] also has to play into the [00:08:17] value prop of, [00:08:18] of JLL.
The [00:08:19] way that we do it [00:08:20] is that [00:08:21] JLL has its own [00:08:22] strategy, how are we trying to [00:08:23] move business forward. [00:08:24] Each [00:08:25] business line has their own [00:08:26] strategy within that. [00:08:27] And so what we're [00:08:28] looking to do is [00:08:29] say, "Where [00:08:30] can we find [00:08:31] technology that will [00:08:32] augment [00:08:33] the strategy that [00:08:34] JLL already [00:08:35] has, or [00:08:36] will [00:08:37] challenge the strategy [00:08:38] that JLL has?"[00:08:39]
So we're [00:08:40] investing in companies that [00:08:41] are in commercial real [00:08:42] estate because that's what [00:08:43] JLL does. [00:08:44] We are [00:08:45] looking to [00:08:46] support our [00:08:47] leasing advisory [00:08:48] group, our capital [00:08:49] markets group, [00:08:50] our facilities [00:08:51] management group, [00:08:52] property asset management group, [00:08:53] et cetera. And [00:08:54] so we [00:08:55] talk to them on a regular [00:08:56] basis. What's your [00:08:57] strategy?
Has it [00:08:58] changed? Which [00:08:59] areas can [00:09:00] technology help you with? [00:09:01] And JLL's [00:09:02] unique because we [00:09:03] have [00:09:04] a technology team [00:09:05] inside, [00:09:06] so then we [00:09:07] understand, are they [00:09:08] delivering something for you, [00:09:09] or do we need to deliver [00:09:10] something for you? So [00:09:11] the areas where we can [00:09:12] play are, [00:09:13] it's strategic, it's [00:09:14] important, [00:09:15] we don't have a solution [00:09:16] ourselves, let's [00:09:17] go find a [00:09:18] solution.
And then we're [00:09:19] looking for companies that are [00:09:20] gonna be [00:09:21] extremely [00:09:22] profitable on their [00:09:23] own because [00:09:24] if they're [00:09:25] not, then they [00:09:26] won't be around [00:09:27] long to be [00:09:28] strategic for us. So [00:09:29] it has to be a [00:09:30] combination of very [00:09:31] strategic, but [00:09:32] also a really great [00:09:33] idea. [00:09:34] Yeah, I mean, in, in [00:09:35] JLL, even with [00:09:36] it being a, an [00:09:37] incumbent, with it [00:09:38] being a [00:09:39] massive [00:09:40] worldwide [00:09:41] company, you've [00:09:42] still a [00:09:43] forward-thinking company, [00:09:44] very at the [00:09:45] forefront of [00:09:46] technology.
And from the [00:09:47] outside it seems like you've [00:09:48] taken three different [00:09:49] approaches when it comes to [00:09:50] technology. You [00:09:51] build stuff internally. [00:09:52] You also [00:09:53] have acquired [00:09:54] companies. You also hire [00:09:55] services, but you also have [00:09:56] JLL Spark. So [00:09:57] in terms of [00:09:58] deciding what [00:09:59] path [00:10:00] JLL [00:10:01] takes, how do you [00:10:02] support that path [00:10:03] in terms of, [00:10:04] "Oh, actually, [00:10:05] you should buy that [00:10:06] company 'cause we're [00:10:07] clients of them, and we [00:10:08] should have it in-house," [00:10:09] or, [00:10:10] "Actually, yeah, we should [00:10:11] build it now that we [00:10:12] have more [00:10:13] cost-effective tools to [00:10:14] build in-house."
[00:10:15] How do you navigate [00:10:16] that? Is that something that you [00:10:17] take part in? [00:10:18] Yeah, we take [00:10:19] part in that, and [00:10:20] honestly, that's a very [00:10:21] insightful question. [00:10:22] I would say that [00:10:23] there is no [00:10:24] right answer [00:10:25] to that, but there [00:10:26] are shades. [00:10:27] Okay? [00:10:28] So at one [00:10:29] end of, of [00:10:30] certainty is [00:10:31] where we already have a [00:10:32] set of software [00:10:33] products that [00:10:34] we either [00:10:35] created or bought over [00:10:36] time.
Those [00:10:37] are the ones we're gonna [00:10:38] continue investing in, con- [00:10:39] continue to [00:10:40] develop those, [00:10:41] and so that is [00:10:42] very much not a [00:10:43] Spark [00:10:44] perspective. On the [00:10:45] other end of the [00:10:46] spectrum, there [00:10:47] are companies doing [00:10:48] things that are [00:10:49] unique that we are [00:10:50] not doing, that [00:10:51] have a capability [00:10:52] that it would take us [00:10:53] a lot of money and [00:10:54] time to be able to put [00:10:55] together.
That's [00:10:56] Spark. And then [00:10:57] in the middle, there's a [00:10:58] discussion, [00:10:59] okay? "Oh, [00:11:00] this is a really [00:11:01] interesting startup, [00:11:02] but maybe we [00:11:03] could actually build this." [00:11:04] Okay, [00:11:05] interesting. How long would it [00:11:06] take you to build it? How much [00:11:07] money would it take you to [00:11:08] build it? [00:11:09] And the reality of [00:11:10] venture capital is that [00:11:11] it's a [00:11:12] trade-off for us [00:11:13] between money [00:11:14] and control.[00:11:15]
So if [00:11:16] we built something [00:11:17] ourself inside [00:11:18] JLL, we control it [00:11:19] 100%, [00:11:20] okay? But [00:11:21] we have to spend all [00:11:22] the money required [00:11:23] to make that work. [00:11:24] Mm-hmm. And [00:11:25] sometimes those R&D [00:11:26] projects don't work, [00:11:27] so you've now spent a lot of [00:11:28] money, you didn't get [00:11:29] anything for it. [00:11:30] What VC [00:11:31] is like, well, okay, [00:11:32] I'm gonna only [00:11:33] own 10% of the [00:11:34] company, let's say.[00:11:35]
Um, so I [00:11:36] don't have control of that [00:11:37] company, but [00:11:38] the amount of money [00:11:39] that I put in is [00:11:40] also [00:11:41] 10% of the money I [00:11:42] would put in for [00:11:43] R&D. So I've [00:11:44] traded off [00:11:45] control for money, and [00:11:46] the good thing about [00:11:47] having our [00:11:48] combination at [00:11:49] JLL is that we [00:11:50] can decide, do we [00:11:51] wanna control and [00:11:52] own? Do we [00:11:53] wanna be a [00:11:54] partner, only put [00:11:55] in a small amount of money, [00:11:56] but still benefit [00:11:57] from the relationship?[00:11:58]
So depending [00:11:59] on the [00:12:00] circumstance, we'll do one or [00:12:01] the other. [00:12:02] And the good thing [00:12:03] about VC is [00:12:04] that if I have a [00:12:05] dollar, I can put [00:12:06] 10 cents into [00:12:07] 10 different [00:12:08] companies as opposed to the [00:12:09] whole dollar into one [00:12:10] project. And so that [00:12:11] gives me optionality [00:12:12] as well, and that's really [00:12:13] where it works. [00:12:14] [00:12:15] Optionality and, uh, [00:12:16] flexibility ultimately [00:12:17] nowadays for [00:12:18] incumbents [00:12:19] is, is a [00:12:20] true competitive [00:12:21] advantage.
I agree [00:12:22] 100%. [00:12:23] I gotta ask [00:12:24] you, and it's okay if [00:12:25] you don't have an answer, [00:12:26] but, I mean, there was a, [00:12:27] a famous [00:12:28] day in the real estate [00:12:29] calendar this year [00:12:30] for those of us that follow [00:12:31] this very closely. [00:12:32] But [00:12:33] February 11th, [00:12:34] 2026, [00:12:35] when... And [00:12:36] probably every [00:12:37] industry has now gone [00:12:38] through this, where there was an [00:12:39] AI [00:12:40] scare trade [00:12:41] for real estate, [00:12:42] right?
I don't [00:12:43] know if it was [00:12:44] OpenAI or Anthropic [00:12:45] released something that [00:12:46] was for, [00:12:47] allegedly for real [00:12:48] estate. And [00:12:49] all the major [00:12:50] commercial real estate [00:12:51] publicly traded [00:12:52] companies [00:12:53] dropped significantly. [00:12:54] They probably- Yeah ... recovered [00:12:55] within a few days or anything. [00:12:56] What was [00:12:57] it like [00:12:58] inside? Was this [00:12:59] like a code [00:13:00] red moment [00:13:01] where, like, all, all hands [00:13:02] on deck?
[00:13:03] You probably already have [00:13:04] seen this coming, but, like, [00:13:05] just curious what was [00:13:06] going on through that day, [00:13:07] given it was such a [00:13:08] momentous day [00:13:09] where the attention [00:13:10] was on, at the [00:13:11] intersection of real estate and [00:13:12] AI. [00:13:13] I think from my [00:13:14] personal [00:13:15] perspective, I was [00:13:16] kind of a little [00:13:17] shocked. First of [00:13:18] all, I was shocked [00:13:19] that it [00:13:20] took the analysts [00:13:21] so long to [00:13:22] figure out that AI [00:13:23] might be a [00:13:24] problem here, or a [00:13:25] solution.
But [00:13:26] it might have an [00:13:27] impact on our businesses. I'm [00:13:28] like, "Oh, wow. Only [00:13:29] now?" Like- What took you [00:13:30] so long? Yeah, what took you so [00:13:31] long? So that [00:13:32] was the first thing. [00:13:33] And yeah, JLL's [00:13:34] stock, like everybody [00:13:35] else's, went down a [00:13:36] lot. But as [00:13:37] you pointed out, [00:13:38] actually it didn't take [00:13:39] a few days, took a few [00:13:40] months, but it, [00:13:41] they crept back up.[00:13:42]
And JLL's [00:13:43] stock hit a [00:13:44] high, all-time high this [00:13:45] year. It's off [00:13:46] that high now, but [00:13:47] it goes up and [00:13:48] down. And I would say [00:13:49] this, a lot of [00:13:50] the real estate [00:13:51] executives that I talk [00:13:52] to have [00:13:53] a little bit [00:13:54] of worry about [00:13:55] technology in [00:13:56] general. Because in part [00:13:57] it's not where they grew up. [00:13:58] They don't necessarily [00:13:59] understand it, so it's not [00:14:00] clear to them how do they [00:14:01] take advantage of it.[00:14:02]
Now, [00:14:03] those people who have been [00:14:04] relatively sort of, you [00:14:05] know, "I don't wanna dabble in [00:14:06] the technology," [00:14:07] those are the same [00:14:08] people now who are vibe [00:14:09] coding solutions. [00:14:10] [00:14:11] And so we've [00:14:12] gone from like, "Oh, [00:14:13] I'm not sure about [00:14:14] technology" to, "I can [00:14:15] build everything in [00:14:16] Claude." And [00:14:17] so I think [00:14:18] the analysts [00:14:19] overreacted. [00:14:20] I think the [00:14:21] industry is kind [00:14:22] of [00:14:23] overcompensating, and [00:14:24] we will find a [00:14:25] balance.
But [00:14:26] these things do take [00:14:27] time. And [00:14:28] look, I'm not saying you [00:14:29] can't make a lot of [00:14:30] money in the [00:14:31] meanwhile betting on where the [00:14:32] balance might [00:14:33] go, but what I [00:14:34] am saying is that [00:14:35] ultimately I [00:14:36] think that our [00:14:37] industry is [00:14:38] really [00:14:39] well-suited to AI. We [00:14:40] have so many [00:14:41] documents, so much [00:14:42] information, so much [00:14:43] data. It's [00:14:44] really a [00:14:45] great example [00:14:46] of how you could build a [00:14:47] super AI system.[00:14:48]
But [00:14:49] not everything needs to [00:14:50] be AI. [00:14:51] Not every person [00:14:52] should be replaced. [00:14:53] We need to [00:14:54] find the right [00:14:55] solution whereby [00:14:56] we can [00:14:57] empower people [00:14:58] with the [00:14:59] AI doing the [00:15:00] basic work, and [00:15:01] those people are doing [00:15:02] the, the work that [00:15:03] requires an [00:15:04] understanding and the [00:15:05] knowledge of our industry, [00:15:06] because every industry is [00:15:07] different.
So it [00:15:08] was a funny time. [00:15:09] I think we're out of [00:15:10] that now, but yeah, [00:15:11] still we kind of [00:15:12] have some corrections to [00:15:13] come. [00:15:14] Fascinating. And it's a [00:15:15] human trait of that [00:15:16] pendulum swinging [00:15:17] to one extreme- Right ... to the [00:15:18] other. [00:15:19] While that, yeah, it ... [00:15:20] And, and I do have my [00:15:21] theories about [00:15:22] why real [00:15:23] estate and, and [00:15:24] technology sometimes[00:15:25]
I think it has to a lot, [00:15:26] a lot with the [00:15:27] language that we [00:15:28] use. I think [00:15:29] disruption, [00:15:30] which is something we [00:15:31] celebrate in the tech world, [00:15:32] is not something that is [00:15:33] celebrated in real estate [00:15:34] for good measure, [00:15:35] right? Right. Why would you [00:15:36] disrupt a building [00:15:37] with 300 people living [00:15:38] in there or a [00:15:39] 5,000-people office [00:15:40] building?
Like, no one [00:15:41] wants to disrupt [00:15:42] it. But talking [00:15:43] about finding the right [00:15:44] solutions and the right [00:15:45] teams, you speak to a [00:15:46] lot of founders, you [00:15:47] see a lot of im- [00:15:48] solutions out there. [00:15:49] What are some of [00:15:50] the traits or [00:15:51] signals that you [00:15:52] look out for [00:15:53] that some of the most [00:15:54] successful companies [00:15:55] have had? Either [00:15:56] the ones that you've backed or the [00:15:57] ones out there in the [00:15:58] market.
And what does it [00:15:59] take for a founder [00:16:00] and a team to [00:16:01] win, uh, when it [00:16:02] comes to real estate technology [00:16:03] today? [00:16:04] So I think the [00:16:05] first thing that we're [00:16:06] looking for [00:16:07] is [00:16:08] does the [00:16:09] team have a [00:16:10] really strong [00:16:11] vision that [00:16:12] is built on [00:16:13] reality? [00:16:14] So we see [00:16:15] a lot of teams [00:16:16] that come, [00:16:17] they've had an issue in [00:16:18] their lives [00:16:19] around real estate.[00:16:20]
Maybe it's like the [00:16:21] office is a [00:16:22] problem, or [00:16:23] getting to and from the [00:16:24] office, or [00:16:25] distribution [00:16:26] centers don't work the way they [00:16:27] should, and [00:16:28] they try and solve that. [00:16:29] And look, that's [00:16:30] great, but [00:16:31] you need to [00:16:32] know what people did [00:16:33] before, not [00:16:34] make the same mistakes. [00:16:35] So having a [00:16:36] background and [00:16:37] understanding the industry is [00:16:38] really powerful.[00:16:39]
Having a team [00:16:40] that combines [00:16:41] understanding real [00:16:42] estate with understanding [00:16:43] technology, [00:16:44] that's the next thing that we're [00:16:45] looking for. You need to have [00:16:46] a well-rounded [00:16:47] team. If you don't [00:16:48] know all those different [00:16:49] areas, it's not [00:16:50] gonna work as well as it [00:16:51] might. And [00:16:52] then thirdly, you [00:16:53] need to be... [00:16:54] and this is quite [00:16:55] unusual, you need to be [00:16:56] insanely [00:16:57] focused on your [00:16:58] solution, but [00:16:59] also open to [00:17:00] hearing advice.[00:17:01]
So you get [00:17:02] some founders [00:17:03] are very [00:17:04] focused, and then when [00:17:05] the world changes, they [00:17:06] don't see it. They just [00:17:07] focus on the same [00:17:08] solution. Other [00:17:09] people [00:17:10] manage to [00:17:11] hold that focus, but at the [00:17:12] same time [00:17:13] can hear [00:17:14] from the outside the [00:17:15] signal that things are [00:17:16] changing, and [00:17:17] adapt accordingly. [00:17:18] So you need both [00:17:19] focus and [00:17:20] flexibility.
[00:17:21] You need to be [00:17:22] experienced both in [00:17:23] real estate and in [00:17:24] technology, [00:17:25] and those are the [00:17:26] basics that gotta [00:17:27] be there for this to [00:17:28] work. There's [00:17:29] one other [00:17:30] factor which is gonna make [00:17:31] you laugh maybe, [00:17:32] that is really [00:17:33] important when we're thinking [00:17:34] about who we're gonna [00:17:35] invest with. [00:17:36] Do we get on with [00:17:37] them? [00:17:38] You want [00:17:39] somebody to be in your [00:17:40] corner when things are [00:17:41] bad.
You want [00:17:42] somebody who's gonna [00:17:43] understand, and [00:17:44] they want the same. [00:17:45] And so [00:17:46] sometimes you find [00:17:47] founders who are [00:17:48] just not the [00:17:49] right group of [00:17:50] people for you to work [00:17:51] with. And [00:17:52] fine for them, then [00:17:53] maybe they'll find their [00:17:54] people. But that's [00:17:55] really important for us, [00:17:56] is that there are people that [00:17:57] we can sit down [00:17:58] with and work with [00:17:59] and, and [00:18:00] understand each other.
Because [00:18:01] otherwise, when people [00:18:02] don't understand or [00:18:03] like each other, it's just [00:18:04] really hard to, [00:18:05] to stick together when [00:18:06] times are tough. [00:18:07] It gets down to the [00:18:08] human element at [00:18:09] the end of the day. [00:18:10] Every time. Every time. Whe- whether the [00:18:11] human has [00:18:12] the subject [00:18:13] matter [00:18:14] expertise and [00:18:15] covers the industries [00:18:16] that they're- or the, [00:18:17] the sectors within [00:18:18] real estate that they'll be [00:18:19] tackling.
And [00:18:20] what you said, it's such [00:18:21] a, such a [00:18:22] skill because [00:18:23] holding, [00:18:24] holding seemingly [00:18:25] opposing thoughts at the [00:18:26] same time, like having [00:18:27] that vision, like you said, [00:18:28] a clear vision, [00:18:29] but you [00:18:30] also need to take in new [00:18:31] information. [00:18:32] Is that gonna now [00:18:33] make your vision [00:18:34] a little shaky, [00:18:35] or you just adapt it [00:18:36] and have even more [00:18:37] conviction- Right
with the new [00:18:38] information? [00:18:39] Yeah, and getting [00:18:40] along, I mean, that's ... It's a [00:18:41] marriage. [00:18:42] I, [00:18:43] uh, yeah. I'm not sure [00:18:44] my wife would agree with [00:18:45] that. But, uh, it's [00:18:46] certainly a [00:18:47] relationship, [00:18:48] and the best [00:18:49] relationships are very [00:18:50] strong, and that's why [00:18:51] you often see [00:18:52] investors and [00:18:53] founders working [00:18:54] together over multiple [00:18:55] companies, [00:18:56] because they've built that strong [00:18:57] relationship.
[00:18:58] Fascinating. [00:18:59] Let's move on to one of [00:19:00] your portfolio [00:19:01] companies that's been on the [00:19:02] headlines, Elise AI. [00:19:03] I mean, we've had [00:19:04] the likes of [00:19:05] JP Morgan, [00:19:06] Delta, [00:19:07] Amazon, Block- [00:19:08] Mm-hmm ... AI agents from their [00:19:09] platforms just in the [00:19:10] past week. [00:19:11] RealPage just did [00:19:12] the same with Elise [00:19:13] AI and Multifamily [00:19:14] for their latest [00:19:15] AI called [00:19:16] Apollo.
You know, you're [00:19:17] a platform, so you're a [00:19:18] major client of the [00:19:19] companies that you back in [00:19:20] some cases, but you [00:19:21] also back them. [00:19:22] So how do you [00:19:23] think about that [00:19:24] tension right now, and [00:19:25] how do you think, [00:19:26] more importantly, [00:19:27] about how [00:19:28] this doesn't ultimately [00:19:29] affect the clients and the [00:19:30] users of these [00:19:31] solutions? [00:19:32] Yeah, I [00:19:33] think, look, it's always [00:19:34] difficult, right?
And, uh, and we [00:19:35] should all be thinking about the [00:19:36] clients and [00:19:37] making sure that we can [00:19:38] provide them with our [00:19:39] uninterrupted good [00:19:40] service. But [00:19:41] look, every one of these [00:19:42] deals is a [00:19:43] commercial proposition, [00:19:44] right? Everybody wants to be [00:19:45] able to win, [00:19:46] and I've no doubt [00:19:47] that there will be a [00:19:48] solution or [00:19:49] multiple solutions [00:19:50] that will allow [00:19:51] this to go forward.
And [00:19:52] I don't think it's [00:19:53] unexpected. If I look at the [00:19:54] industry, and you made the [00:19:55] point earlier about, [00:19:56] like, AI and what the [00:19:57] signal is in [00:19:58] AI, you know, [00:19:59] we don't [00:20:00] entirely know [00:20:01] yet. I think what we [00:20:02] do know is [00:20:03] that we have an [00:20:04] opportunity to radically [00:20:05] improve the [00:20:06] service we provide to [00:20:07] our clients [00:20:08] at a cost that [00:20:09] would be much more [00:20:10] effective than doing it with [00:20:11] people.
And [00:20:12] so I think it's [00:20:13] in everybody's [00:20:14] interest to find a solution, [00:20:15] and I've no doubt that we [00:20:16] will. [00:20:17] 100%. It's, it's still early [00:20:18] days, and what I [00:20:19] keep thinking about is, I [00:20:20] mean, many of [00:20:21] these companies already [00:20:22] had [00:20:23] armies [00:20:24] of [00:20:25] overseas [00:20:26] workers helping them sort- Yeah ... [00:20:27] through data, right? [00:20:28] Now that an AI [00:20:29] agent is doing it, [00:20:30] we're like, [00:20:31] "Okay, hold on," 'cause [00:20:32] it is different.
Uh, [00:20:33] but yeah, just [00:20:34] funny how the [00:20:35] switch [00:20:36] flipped overnight [00:20:37] immediately from [00:20:38] how we can use this data [00:20:39] and, like, [00:20:40] we weren't even thinking [00:20:41] about it much before. [00:20:42] Yeah. And I think you [00:20:43] make a great point about the [00:20:44] overseas agents [00:20:45] as well. I think [00:20:46] that [00:20:47] outsourcing now [00:20:48] looks like it [00:20:49] was the [00:20:50] dry run for [00:20:51] AI, [00:20:52] right?
So [00:20:53] essentially, if we were able to [00:20:54] build [00:20:55] processes and [00:20:56] exchange data in a way that [00:20:57] will allow a third [00:20:58] party to do that, [00:20:59] we can [00:21:00] probably now take [00:21:01] that work [00:21:02] and get AI to [00:21:03] do it as well. So [00:21:04] it's a big s- [00:21:05] context switch, [00:21:06] and it's not gonna [00:21:07] go t- entirely [00:21:08] smoothly. There will be [00:21:09] issues, and I'm [00:21:10] sure we haven't seen them all.
[00:21:11] But we will also, I [00:21:12] think, [00:21:13] look back in a few [00:21:14] years and say, "Wow, you [00:21:15] know, incredible [00:21:16] that we did all this stuff [00:21:17] by hand [00:21:18] before. You know, it's [00:21:19] just so obvious that we should [00:21:20] be having the machine do [00:21:21] it." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:21:22] Quick [00:21:23] round. What's [00:21:24] over-hyped [00:21:25] and what is [00:21:26] underrated with [00:21:27] AI in real estate [00:21:28] right now? [00:21:29] I think [00:21:30] agents are [00:21:31] overhyped.
[00:21:32] So a lot of people [00:21:33] tell me that they built an [00:21:34] agent, and I'm like, [00:21:35] "Eh, I'm not sure that's an [00:21:36] agent, actually." [00:21:37] But I think that whole [00:21:38] concept is like everybody's, [00:21:39] like, got an agentic [00:21:40] workflow, [00:21:41] and, um, you know, I don't [00:21:42] think we're quite there yet. Bit [00:21:43] overhyped, [00:21:44] honestly. Yeah. [00:21:45] I think what's [00:21:46] underhyped is [00:21:47] the ability [00:21:48] for AI [00:21:49] to [00:21:50] ingest all the [00:21:51] information that we have without [00:21:52] us having to [00:21:53] pre-format it and [00:21:54] pre-tabulate it, [00:21:55] and then still [00:21:56] deliver value.[00:21:57]
The thing [00:21:58] which disturbs [00:21:59] me about [00:22:00] generative AI is [00:22:01] this hallucination [00:22:02] concept. [00:22:03] So in [00:22:04] another industry, that would just [00:22:05] be called being [00:22:06] wrong, but we say it's [00:22:07] hallucinations. [00:22:08] So that is [00:22:09] something that we need to work [00:22:10] out, and in [00:22:11] particular, in our [00:22:12] industry, what we [00:22:13] are still missing [00:22:14] mostly is [00:22:15] auditability.
[00:22:16] I need to be able to [00:22:17] understand why that [00:22:18] decision was made, [00:22:19] and that is not [00:22:20] just me that needs to do [00:22:21] that. The government [00:22:22] wants to do that. The [00:22:23] tax service wants to do [00:22:24] that as well, and so [00:22:25] we need to be [00:22:26] moving more quickly [00:22:27] towards an answer there. [00:22:28] 100%. Y- [00:22:29] you don't make the rules there. [00:22:30] No. [00:22:31] Where [00:22:32] can Tangent [00:22:33] listeners and [00:22:34] PropTech founders [00:22:35] learn more [00:22:36] about JLL Spark [00:22:37] and connect with you?[00:22:38]
Oh, [00:22:39] well, um, we're pretty [00:22:40] active on LinkedIn. [00:22:41] We have a new [00:22:42] Substack that's out [00:22:43] there, JLL Spark. [00:22:44] Please check that out. [00:22:45] And the [00:22:46] other thing that I think I would [00:22:47] encourage people to [00:22:48] look at is [00:22:49] JLL produces a [00:22:50] lot of research. [00:22:51] We just had a really [00:22:52] interesting piece come out about [00:22:53] data centers, [00:22:54] so I would encourage [00:22:55] people, sign up for that.
[00:22:56] It's really [00:22:57] very good data. [00:22:58] And you can find a [00:22:59] link of that in the [00:23:00] episode show [00:23:01] notes. [00:23:02] Raj [00:23:03] Singh, [00:23:04] managing director [00:23:05] at JLL [00:23:06] Spark, [00:23:07] thank you so much for [00:23:08] coming to Tangent today. [00:23:09] Great pleasure. Thank [00:23:10] you for having me. [00:23:11] [00:23:12] [00:23:13] [00:23:14] [00:23:15] Muchas [00:23:16] gracias. If you learn [00:23:17] something new or [00:23:18] enjoy the [00:23:19] conversation. Text a [00:23:20] friend the link to this [00:23:21] episode right now.
Edward: [00:23:22] [00:23:23] You can [00:23:24] find links, [00:23:25] resources, and ways to [00:23:26] connect with us in the show [00:23:27] notes [00:23:28] [00:23:29] [00:23:30] [00:23:31] [00:23:32]