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Why this podcast?
If there's one thing every professional understands, it's that experience leads to insight. Unfortunately, life moves in one direction, and the only way to gain this wisdom is through time and trials -
…or is it?
In each episode of the Insight on Tap podcast, we interview a member of Yancy Forums, an emerging platform with specialized groups from different professions. Yancy Forums helps people within the same vocation utilize decades of collective knowledge to uncover hidden shortcuts that normally take years to learn.
If you feel isolated in your career, left without the proper support needed to be at your best, or worn out from too many demands, this show is for you. Hear from people who've found a camaraderie that results in less time suffering unnecessary tension and more time relaxing with loved ones.
Brad Yancy 00:00
What do you get when you combine a dozen professional minds and over 100 years of experience? It's Insight on Tap.
Brad Yancy 00:11
Welcome to Insight on Tap, where each episode we interview a different member of Yancy Forums. Right now we are speaking to Rich Greiner. Rich is a former Navy SEAL, who is now an emergency physician. Rich, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background? I think your story is actually really fascinating. I don't know a lot of people who have depth and breadth of experience that you have with your career in the Navy and then have gone on to do some of the work you're doing in medicine. I'd rather hear from you.
Brad Yancy 00:41
All right. Take me back to the beginning. How exactly did you first end up interested in the military and even deciding to become a Navy SEAL? I know you said at first your grades weren't good enough, but then you got them there. I mean, I would presume that not everybody who ends up in the military or starts in the military is thinking, I want to become a Navy SEAL someday. When were you bit by the bug, I guess is what I'm asking.
Rich Greiner 00:41
Well, sure. I went to the Naval Academy. I committed myself right out of high school to that, plus five or so years, I wound up doing seven. Coming out of the Naval Academy, at first I thought I wanted to fly jets. But then once I had a little bit of experience in the summertime, I really was excited about Navy SEALs and had a little Navy diver experience in there, too, which made me totally locked on the idea of being a Navy SEAL. After I graduated--and actually, my grades weren't good enough to go right to the SEALs, it was pretty selective, a lot of people wanted to do it--I went to ship for two years in San Diego, which actually was a great experience. And I got to learn leadership in that arena first where you actually lead more people in maybe a little bit less risk on a day-to-day basis. But I got to learn to lead people. I was in charge of 20 to 30 people and worked to learn the bigger picture Navy and the ship Navy for almost two years until I was able to qualify high enough and get my captain to allow me to put in for a transfer. And then I qualified for a transfer to the SEALs and went through field training and then spent four or five years in the SEALs at SEAL Team Three, finishing up as a platoon commander. After that, I knew when I was finishing up that tour, which at the time was the pinnacle of what you get to do, I thought, operationally as an officer in the SEALs, so I was looking at what was going to be next. And I didn't see myself finishing a career in the Navy, because I did about the most exciting thing I thought there was, so I always thought about being a doctor. I planned on getting out and becoming a doctor and made that transition. I didn't really think about any other kind of medicine other than emergency medicine; it really fit the kind of person I was and what I was interested in, and probably a little bit like the military, too, a little bit chaotic, and small teams oriented, so it worked out really well. I've trained in emergency medicine, I've been practicing as an emergency physician for about the last 15 or 17 years. And then the last handful of years, I've gotten involved in some leadership and medicine, too, which I really enjoy. I like to do a little bit of both. I like to see patients in the ER and try to help out other doctors and help the hospital system as much as I can.
Rich Greiner 00:45
Well, probably at a pretty young age, I thought about the military. My mom's family actually grew up on West Point. They kept pushing me to think about West Point. But you know, I'm a bit biased. And I'll tell you, I don't like their uniforms. And you know, also I'm a water guy. I grew up as a swimmer and played water polo. I really wanted to be in the water. And plus, we took a trip to San Diego one time and my dad was in the military for two years as a lawyer and they were stationed in Newport, Rhode Island and San Diego. When we visited there, I was definitely hooked. And when I heard that there was an option to go to college at the Naval Academy, and then at that time, I thought I wanted to become a jet pilot, because my dad had exposed me to some air shows, we watched the Blue Angels and I thought that looked awesome. And "Top Gun" had just come out and I'm like, Whoa, sign me up for that deal. I get to fly jets and go to San Diego and live that life. That sounds pretty awesome. That was what I thought I wanted to do. And then when I got to Naval Academy, I got exposed to it a little bit of every type of the Navy, the ship Navy, the submarine Navy, the Marines a little bit, the pilots, the aircraft and then the SEALs was actually a small part of it, and Navy Diver. I did a summer with Navy divers, which was incredible and really challenging. And while I was there, we're going through the training, it was one of the first time they let Midshipmen go through it. And the instructors were giving us all this really tough training and they were like, This is the second hardest military training in the world. Of course, I was like, What's the hardest? And they said, Navy SEALs. I'm like, Oh. Back then, it wasn't that popular, you hadn't heard about it. I was like, Sign me up for that. Then I got a little bit of exposure to that the following year and got to do a mini three-week program that was like SEAL training. And that was the hardest thing I've ever done and I loved that. I was totally sold on that. But when I graduated my grades weren't that awesome and at the time it was really competitive to get into the SEALs. I had to do the ship Navy first, which I actually really enjoyed. And that was a great time, too, because actually, I got to live in San Diego, and had a lot of friends there. And I got to learn how to how to lead a division. When I showed up at the ship, I didn't know anything; all these guys knew everything about the division until I guess, because of where they taught me and what I was supposed to have learned at the Naval Academy, I was supposed to be able to lead this division. And that was humbling and fun. And it was a great experience. And then over the next two years, I learned about the ship Navy and about my particular ship. And I learned enough that I got to qualify to a level that my captain was okay endorsing me to apply to the SEAL program. Then I went to SEAL program, and was in the SEALs for four or five years, and then finished up as a as a platoon commander. I totally loved that. And then towards the end of that, I realized that a lot of people got out at that stage as a junior officer; there wasn't a whole lot more fun stuff to do right away at that time. A lot of people were getting out and going to business school, but I knew I always wanted to be a doctor. My plan was always to get out and go to medical school. That was still in the back of my head or really was what I really wanted to do. I'm glad I pursued that.
Brad Yancy 05:41
You have an interesting take on fun, man. I can see you like pushing yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tell me if I'm if I'm way off here. I saw a program years ago; I can't even remember what channel it was on. And it was on Navy SEAL training. And they had all these guys that run on this beach. And they were just falling out. And they were saying that something like, I don't remember what percentage of people actually even completed the training. But it was so rigorous that it was seriously, seriously, seriously tough. Was that your experience?
Rich Greiner 06:41
Yeah, I mean, the numbers really haven't changed. I'm glad to say I've kept in touch a little bit with people who are still out at the training sites. And I think that it's still pretty much that 70% of the trainees drop out. 30% make it through training. And there are some days that are more rigorous than others. And of course, when you start there, we started training with 150 people in what they call pre-training. And I think by the time we started real training, we were down to 120. By the time we made it to Hell Week, which is seven weeks later, we were down to about 35. But there were definitely some days where quitting was contagious; it was an epidemic. Plus, just whatever you're doing that day, if it happens to be a really cold day and you're spending a whole lot of time in the surf, or you just did a really difficult activity with log PT, or you basically just barely survived or you thought you weren't going to survive an underwater swim. There are definitely some days and some activities that you could literally see a handful of people all quit at the same time. Plus, sometimes once one or two people quit, it gets in these other guys' heads, and they're like, Wow, if that guy's quitting, how am I going to be able to make it. So yeah, there's days like that, but I just never thought it was an option.
Brad Yancy 07:50
That's awesome. How did that translate for you into a sort of mental toughness into the rest of your career? And then I guess how does that translate for you at all in your career now?
Rich Greiner 08:00
Well, it helps me stay calm under pressure. I do appreciate chaos, I couldn't see being a different kind of a doctor. I really like the emergency room, so I think it really works well in that setting, at least as a clinical doctor. If someone comes in and everyone's all excited, because either they're bleeding a lot, or they're not breathing, and everyone's running around, you have to, as the doctor, take charge of the situation and be the calm in the room. And that's a lot easier to do if you've been in really challenging or really scary environments. It might also be my nature, but it probably helped in that way. And also the leadership background I had from the military helps me also read the room and help give people direction so that we're all working together as a team. It's a little different in the military versus medicine--we call it "the practice of medicine." And in the military, you'll practice something hundreds of times in the event that you might actually get to go do it in war. I was in the SEALs in between wars, so I didn't have a whole lot of battlefield experience. But I can tell you, whenever we're not fighting someone directly, all we're doing is practicing for a drilling, pretending, practice, practice, practice, and do these evolutions over and over, so you're so good at them, you can do them with hand signals in the dark without signals. In medicine, basically every patient is a new patient and you're practicing each time. The first few years when you're out of medical school, you're practicing, but you're still practicing on real people. And sometimes you do a little bit of a simulation but there's a lot more learn-as-you-go. I think the medical field might benefit from a little bit more practice not on patients, but that's a different story.
Brad Yancy 09:38
That's got to be helpful. though. I think, with that being said, to have someone like yourself present just to have that perspective that: Hey, there are some ways that maybe we could tighten up around here, maybe through some systems or through some practicing. But like you said it's going to be new with every person. Are there any things that you can practice doing that work out so that when you actually do have a different--or is it so varied that every single time you have a new patient that there's not much to practice? You either know what you're doing or you don't.
Rich Greiner 10:05
No, there's always benefit to practice. And each time you do something, you are learning, and you're learning a little bit as a team. But there's also real benefit to--we do simulations all the time, especially in Bridgeport Hospital, we're doing trauma simulations, or resuscitation simulations and simulators are getting better and better at looking like the real thing and giving vital signs that are like the real thing. When you're doing a simulation, you feel like it. Your heart rate goes fast when the simulated patient almost stops breathing, or stops breathing. There's huge benefit to practicing, so we do some of it. A good hospital system--and where I work, we're really well supported and we do have time for that sort of training, and I definitely do it more in residency when they're in between medical school and finishing their training--there's definitely benefit to that. I think there's a lot of benefit to doing it after residency, too, and doing it as a team, because that's really the benefit that you get in the military is when you do stuff together as a team that everyone knows who's moving where, when, and with what signal and what circumstance. That's really nice if you practice that as a team with simulation. Nurses know: I'm the IV nurse, and I'm the lead nurse, and I'm the one who's getting the meds and this is the person doing the CPR, and this is the person who's going to do this other procedure. And I'm the one who's just keeping the big picture in mind and calling the consultants and maybe doing some procedures or making sure that we keep the person alive or whatever. There's a huge benefit to practice, and you have to do it everywhere. It's good to have a system that supports that.
Brad Yancy 11:32
That's awesome. And I imagine having those calm-under-pressure nerves of steel really comes in handy as well, particularly probably from leadership in that environment?
Rich Greiner 11:41
I think it helps people gravitate towards what works for them. So yeah, I think most emergency physicians have that, to most extent. If you don't have that, you might have nurses on the team who are really good at it. But in general, most clinicians that I've seen in emergency medicine have that, too. You develop it over time, or you may not thrive in that setting, and you find something else to do. I think a lot of people do that. But for me, it probably came easy--easier--as I had some experience with that sort of stress.
Brad Yancy 12:13
How exactly did you find your way into this Yancy Forums group from this position as an emergency physician?
Rich Greiner 12:20
Well, sure, I'd been an emergency physician about 10 years and I'd been at Bridgeport Hospital maybe four or five years. And I think the person who put me in touch with the Yancy Forums was Dr. Ivy. He'd been the Chief Medical Officer at Bridgeport, and I think he'd been the head surgeon in the trauma team. He'd been in the ER a lot, and he was just a really personable guy. As the Chief Medical Officer he knew most, if not all, of the doctors in the hospital. And he knew a lot from different hospitals, too. So I think Earl Yancy approached him and said, Hey, do you have a group that might benefit from this? And Mike is a "Yes" kind of guy and knew that there would be benefit of putting together a bunch of different people at similar levels of mid-career leadership to learn from a group like this. He asked the right people if they had some people that would fit into this. And I didn't hear about people who said no. When I heard about it, it was pretty vague; I think it's probably designed to be that way. And I just heard, Well, do you want to get together with a bunch of other mid-career doctors and solve problems. And I didn't have any problems that I thought needed to be solved at the time, but I like to learn new stuff and try new things and work with people. And if I can help them solve their problems, it sounded great. I was all in; it just sounded different. I know that one thing I learned in the military, if there's a different opportunity or a different place to go and they offer it to you, just go. Even a friend of mine who was our radio man got to go to Eritrea or Ethiopia. And it was, at the time, the worst place to go. Everyone's like, Oh, my God, why would you go there? And he still loved it. He's like, it's something different. He saw a different culture; it was the hottest place on earth at the time. It was war torn, but still, you don't get chances to go to places like that very often. Yeah, it was a new experience. So I said, Sign me up.
Brad Yancy 14:10
Okay. When you got into unknown territory, what was it that you found? I mean, obviously, you stuck with it. We're talking here on the podcast, there's got to be something in there that's you found that was unique. What is it to you that you found that you actually think is a value that got you to stick around beyond just a cursory glance and maybe a meeting or two?
Rich Greiner 14:28
Oh, sure. Well, the Forum group, it quickly develops into a group where you know the other people really well and it's set up to help solve each other's professional and departmental and personal problems. To get there, there's icebreakers. And there's, and you get to know each other pretty quickly. And we just have great chemistry, too. And probably in general--I don't work with too many doctors that I couldn't imagine being together in a group like this--but maybe for the first group, we just got lucky and got great chemistry. I think that was it. At first it was just the people. But then the process, I liked it, too, because it was great for icebreaking, learning trust, learning about other people, we learned people's background, their career so that you really got to know the person and you built trust right away. And then, we did some fun things together like team building events and and then we got into the work and tried to help people with their challenges that they have for their department. And I think all of us naturally want to help people, whether it's patients or each other. And that was just easy. It was fun, and it was a little bit of a challenge. And you're getting to know other people and you're building a friend group. It was a no-brainer, it was easy, and I wasn't going anywhere.
Brad Yancy 15:36
That's awesome. The fun things that you did--refresh my memory again, because I know all the different groups go on different activities. I know sometimes people go to a casino or they may--I know that the Range Rover driving school was a cool one; I think you guys did that. And there was falconing, I think, one time? What have you guys actually done so far?
Rich Greiner 15:58
We did that Range Rover experience and that was fun. We learned a little bit about fly fishing; we did some hiking. I think a few different times we would share some music that we liked with other people and share some drinks and all that was fun. All those are good icebreakers and team building events like the Range Rover experience is the kind of thing where some people naturally gravitate towards the driver position right away, because they're not afraid and maybe they're into rollercoasters, or whatever. And that's fun. And then there's other people who are hesitant and then they come out of their shells, and most of them decide that they want to drive and they overcome their fears. And that's fun and exciting, too. Because these vehicles are pretty impressive at what they can tolerate. On this course you don't think that a car could stick to a track like that, but it really does. And it's not even a track. Usually it's just some kind of off-road course in the woods. It's made for an ATV but these vehicles just stick to it. That was fun. All these things that you probably wouldn't do otherwise and are fun to do with a new group. All that was great.
Brad Yancy 16:59
That's pretty cool. I've got to tell you, this is a quick anecdote. I went to a Range Rover driving school once; that's why I keep asking about it. I went to a Range Rover driving school once; it was my grandfather and I and my younger brother. And this was like--I can't remember how old we were. But I was really impressed that on this particular course, it was like, man, the bottom wheel could drop down three feet out and then another wheel would be underneath the actual car itself. It would accommodate to the road, so even though it would look like you're driving over some huge ditch, the car is actually doing its own thing and keeping you stable. But the thing I wanted to bring up was my grandfather got behind the wheel of the car. And I don't think that the guy who was running the course expected this older guy to take off the way he did, just fearless. He just went right through this thing. And yeah, it's like being on a giant, bumpy roller coaster. My brother and I were in the back seat looking at each other like, Oh my gosh. But it was fun.
Rich Greiner 17:55
For sure. Yeah, it was surprising to me, too. I don't know what it looks like from the side so much, because I was going through it consecutively. And I'm not sure what the vehicle looked like but I was just trusting that hey, if they let us go on this course, the car will probably not roll, but I was ready if it was going to roll I'm like, let's see how that goes, too. It's not my vehicle; I assumed that they've got other vehicles, so I was all for it. I have tried other interesting vehicle trips. We got trained in desert patrol vehicles, which essentially are dune buggies that are made to drive in the desert really fast at night and when the SEALs first started using them, they just went to the fastest dune buggy racing company and said, Hey, develop us some fast, tough vehicles that we can drive at night. They were still relatively new when we were using them. And the training basically consisted of, Hey, go out on this course or just go drive through all this desert in Arizona and just go look for this target and then shoot it up. Our desert patrol vehicles were outfitted with a 50-caliber machine gun on top or a rocket or a grenade launcher on top. And we had radios on there. And then we had another M60 rifle on the lower parts. There were three people and just because I wasn't going to be the grenade launcher, or the 60 gunner or the 50-cal gunner, I was the driver. We didn't really get a whole lot of education; it was just basically, Go out and start driving. I guess we probably drove a couple of times during the day before they gave us the night driving, but we pretty quickly just went on night vision goggles and did it at night at 60 miles an hour and hit a bunch of ravines and again I just trusted the vehicle because these things had amazing tires and struts. And luckily we didn't hurt anybody, but it wasn't uncommon to knock off a wheel or break a tire or rupture a tire or something and part of the drill and part of learning these things was swapping out parts and not just changing the tires but trying to repair the vehicle, too. That was a ton of fun.
Brad Yancy 19:50
That sounds awesome. I'm trying to picture this. You're driving this dune buggy and there's somebody with an M80 just cranking away at a target while you're flying through the desert at night.
Rich Greiner 20:01
They had to do a little bit of that in, I think, the Gulf War, but most of the time, you should be static when you're shooting. You want to make your shots count, so you just drive real fast to a site, you should stop and sight in and shoot. It's just the movies that make it look like you should be shooting and drive at the same time. That's not a good call.
Brad Yancy 20:20
That's pretty much my experience is watching "The Expendables." So that's awesome. What is it like in your Forum? I know you said that--obviously, you're really adventurous guy and you've got this really cool background with the military--are your other Forum members made up of people who also have similar backgrounds? Not dissimilar backgrounds? Are you guys all varied? Or do you stick out like a sore thumb in the group? How does that--I mean, I know obviously you guys all get along and you gel very well. But I'm just curious. Are you the military guy, or are you guys all from really unique backgrounds?
Rich Greiner 20:53
No, I'm the token military guy. I'd like to think I don't stick out so much like a sore thumb. But we're all similar, mid-career doctors and leadership positions. Maybe some are slightly higher leadership positions. Some are leading a smaller group. But we're all closer to the same age and amount of experience. Everyone has known what they're doing in medicine for a long time and is really involved in trying to make their department or their specialty better within the hospital or even within the health system. It's similarly like-minded people, but coming from different hospitals; there's some from Greenwich, and we had a guy from L&M and from Bridgeport and from Yale, people with different delivery networks that at least see how things are done differently. And different specialties, which really helps, too. We had surgery and OB and some medicine and hospitalist doctors and emergency doctors. I guess it's nice that that way, we have some diversity, but we also have enough similarities that we can help each other because a lot of what we do is pretty specialized, and it helps to really understand the general medical problems, or the general makeup of the hospital, or to have have had some of these challenges before even from different places. I think that's how we can help each other and see each other's issues. And we're also at similar stages where I think most of us are at the stage where we have kids, usually a little bit older, so that always comes up. And we try to help each other with those issues, too.
Brad Yancy 22:26
That's awesome. That's what I was trying to get at; I maybe could have worded it a little differently. But what I've noticed from a lot of the Forum groups is that you get people in there who have different backgrounds, everybody's got their different story, but you all arrive at similar places where you're equally invested in making a positive impact in whatever your avocation is. There was a teachers' forum that they've had. And you had all these people who really, really stand out; they all won an award for essentially Teacher of the Year in the state of Connecticut. They were all different. They all came from different backgrounds; they had different schools. But once you got them in a room and they started to talk, it was like magic happening, because they're all speaking the same language. And it seems like there's a lot of--it's like they're lending to each other. You know what I mean? Because it's like listening to a bunch of experts compare notes about stuff. I just think that's really cool, like you said you got people from different parts of the state that are all in there together, and that you guys are gelling not just as professionals, but on a personal level. Because that's unique to me.
Rich Greiner 23:34
It's great to have a diversity of experience and a diversity of background to any group like this or most groups. It's great. I wouldn't even mind some diversity from outside of medicine. I don't know what you'd get if you threw in some non-teachers into your teacher group. But I feel like if we threw some hotel people into our medical group, we could a lot better look at and solve some of our process problems. Because I think we're stuck in the way hospitals have always been doing things. And there's other industries that do things a lot better than we do that we could probably learn from. But those are probably harder to get together. So I can't complain. I like the group makeup and our chemistry is pretty great.
Brad Yancy 24:14
That's cool. I have one more question for you. I know that, particularly with your career path, and I have noticed this has been similar when I've spoken to people in other Forums who have either been educators or superintendents. You get people who feel like, Listen, I have a very limited window with the amount of time that I can dedicate to other things, right? It's like you've got career, you've got life, and then you're tapped out on people saying, Hey, why don't you be a part of this or that? What would you say, honestly, to someone who might be listening who might honestly be thinking, Yeah, this sounds kind of cool, but look, man, I don't know if I have an hour to do XYZ. Is it really worth it? I mean, what would you honestly say to that person an all truth?
Rich Greiner 24:59
We have to make time for what matters. This is a multifunctional group. It helps with our professional life, it helps us work better at work, it helps our department work better and I think it builds against burnout, too. We do a lot of meetings that probably could be consolidated or even eliminated. And I'd say be smarter about the rest of your day. But if you have an opportunity to do something like this, it's hard to imagine that it's not worth fitting it into just about anybody's schedule who could get into a group and could benefit. It's not that much, and we schedule it in advance. We get together and we say, hey, what's the best day for you? What's the best day of the week? What's the time? Ultimately it would be typically at the end of a work day, we'll meet up and if we do something on a weekend, it'll just be a weekend that works for most people, if not all people and if you schedule far enough in advance, you can make it work. And like I said, it's a lot of fun. This is a group that quickly becomes friends. It's a combination of social and professional and it's so beneficial. It's definitely the kind of thing you've got to make time for; it's easy to do.
Brad Yancy 26:04
All right. Well, I appreciate your honesty, and I appreciate your time, Rich. As always, good chatting with you, brother, and I will talk to you soon.
Rich Greiner 26:13
Thanks a lot, Brad. My pleasure.
Brad Yancy 26:17
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to follow and for more information, go to yancyforums.com.